• Report: #198550
Complaint Review:

Quicken Loans

  • Submitted: Tue, June 27, 2006
  • Updated: Sun, September 10, 2006

  • Reported By:Raleigh North Carolina
Quicken Loans
301 West Big Beaver Road Troy, Michigan U.S.A.

Quicken Loans Quicken Loans deceptive practices - Quicken Loans scam - Quicken Loans fraud Troy Michigan

*UPDATE Employee: I'm confused

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To : R in Livonia (Jay) - Quicken's #1 Cheerleader

*UPDATE Employee: For Byron

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Still A Brain Washed Slave of Quicken

*Consumer Suggestion: I used Quicken

*UPDATE Employee: Further rebuttal

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: To : R in Livonia - A Brain Washed Slave of Quicken

*Author of original report: Nice Cover up

*UPDATE Employee: A couple of counter points

*Consumer Comment: About Making False Statements On Applications - Loan officers who submit false information about a buyer's qualifications to get a deal to go through may be guilty of theft by deception as well as other crimes, including forgery

*Consumer Comment: Quicken Loans OWNS The Appraisal Service!

*Author of original report: No Credit Report Authorized

*Consumer Suggestion: Question about your CR

*Consumer Suggestion: Question about your CR

*Consumer Suggestion: Question about your CR

*Consumer Suggestion: Question about your CR

*Consumer Comment: UPDATE - VEEEERRRRRY Interesting

REBUTTAL BOX™ | Respond to this Report! | Consumer Comment

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After being "pitched" feverishly by a Quicken Loan "Banker" (I think them calling themselves that is fraudlent and misleading all by itself) to hurry up and sign documents and send them in so he could "Lock in" my rate, I re-read and re=evaluated all of the paperwork faxed to me. It had a payment that was $400.00 higher that what the little salesman "told" me and the interest rate was listed as (floating) instead of indicating it would be "locked in" at 7.25%. I will not sign ANYTHING that puts on paper something different than what was verbally given to me with the promise from an unknown person to "handle" changes. What someone "tells" you isn't worth a hill of beans. What you SIGN on PAPER is what the courts look at. DON"T sign if what you are told is not 100% documented on the papers Quicken Loan sends you!

We (my spouse and I) are not desparate by any means to re-finance. The opportunity, as presented on the phone, "SOUNDS" good.

The pressure applied by the sales people (a.k.a. "Bankers) is the typical shotgun wedding.

After much deliberation all day today without consulting any of the online resources to look up Quicken Loans, I determined that the paperwork was nothing more than my signature that "allows" Quicken to try to find me a loan based on their "estimate" pulled out of their magic little hat. Funny how they tend to lose the magic little hat once the $500.00 is in the bank, eh? All of a sudden, it becomes much harder to qualify for their "loan" - just exactly like going to the bank to apply for a fixed-rate, 30 yr. mortgage.

Then, in my last "discussion" with the Quicken SalesBanker , I mentioned that I wanted to use MY 3rd party, unbiased appraiser. He broke out on a sweat on the phone, saying, "NO, YOU CAN'T DO THAT - that's COLLUSION!"

I calmly said back to him, "Well, if Quicken chooses the appraiser, then Quicken is guilty of Collusion. Appraisers that are hired by a company in hopes of having repeat business just because the company is a mortgage / lending company will be more likely to do anything remotely SUGGESTED by the company - unlike if the appraiser was hired by a one time buyer (the homeowner)."

He had nothing to reply that made sense. It was just, No, No, it's not like that. Ok - then tell me WHY I'm wrong and you're right. He couldn't. Why is MY hiring an appraiser MORE of an instance of collusion than if Quicken hires their own appraisers?

You'll read more than you want to posted by HONEST appraisers on this website:
Start by reading http://soapbox.millersamuel.com/?p=82
Mortgage Fraud: Reviewing Appraisals Inflated By Millions [part 7 of a series] which is the link above.
As you read through this website that pushes for ethics in appraisal companies, you'll see how rampant fraud is - perpetrated by companies very much like Quicken Loans.

Need more from ethical, professional appraisers? Read this:
"Texas appraiser Bob Burnitt says Durn it! He's sick of fraud.

I have only practiced real estate appraisal in the state of Texas, but in my 53 years of being on this planet, without a shadow of a doubt, real estate appraisal is the most corrupt ?profession' I have ever seen,? says a disgusted Burnitt. ?It is my belief at this point it is no different in any other state.? " >>> the rest of the article on http://soapbox.millersamuel.com/?p=32

Seems like the Quicken Cheerleaders are oh so proud that Quicken Loans closed 11,000 a month.

If Quicken Loans closed 11,000 loans a month, sure, there are lots and lots and LOTS of appraisers that want to get on that money wagon. Whammo. You are attacked by the $350 drive-by-appraisal.

Let's do some simple math here:
Average Loans per month: 11,000
Time 12 months in a year: 132,000 loans per year

BESIDES the interest from the loans being pushed (interest only for 10 years) where Quicken Loans rakes in all their interest for 10 years while STILL basically owning 100% of the person's home, each person that has a loan closed has also paid that $500.00 fee. (Oh, and don't worry, Quicken Loans will refinance you for free before the 10 years is up so you'll still not have any equity in your home an pay outrageous interest payments only. What a great deal. I can't wait.) Back to the model:

Hmmmmm - that means that at least 66 MILLION dollars (over Half a BILLIION) per year is made off of the APPROVED loans only.

And Jay, Michelle and Brian (who all seem to be employed in the PR department of Quicken to perform damage control) say that Quicken doesn't make any money off of this "fee". I've seen it posted by one or more of them several times something like - "Do you honestly think that a company worth a Bazillion dollars a year would care about a paultry little $500.00 deposit?" Yes, I think they would. Particularly when it is added with 11,000 (monthly) other $500 deposits. I think for 66 MILLION dollars a year, operations like Quicken Loans could put quite a few "appraisers" in their portfolio (back pocket) that would willingly and eagerly do whatever it takes to keep the lions share of the monthly "fee" pool. Steady, crooked income. That's what I like to see.

That doesn't take into consideration the thousands of "pre-approvals" that DON'T go through, who ALSO pay that $500.00 fee.

The average US appraisal costs around $350.00, more or less but close to that according to housing and real estate statistics from reputable real estate industry resources.

Let's say that a credit report (which I will also address) costs $25.00.

That adds up to $375.00. So, if all of that is honest charges and there is a $125.00 balance, why is the total $500.00 charged instead of the actual charges, why isn't there a receipt for the "appraisal" given to the client since the client "purchased" it, and why do consumers have to fight so hard to get the balance due to them?

Would it be due to the fact that Quicken Loans perhaps might use the balance in a bank account to accrue interest for as long as they can fraudulently hold on to the money?

Hmmmm again, let's do some simple math.

Let's say that 1000 people in Georgia got turned down for loans this month.

Let's say that the real cost of appraisal and credit report is $375.00.

Their balance of $125.00 times 1,000 equals $125,000.00 per month.

Even at 1% per month interest in a regular bank savings account - that is $1250.00.

Big deal you say? Yep.

Multiply that times 50 states. Per MONTH.

50 x 1250.00 = $ 62,500.00.

OK, so still not a big deal? Multiply that by 12.

So in a year, Quicken can effectly sluff off an extra 3 Quarters of a MILLION dollars ($750,000.00) just by holding average refunds for 30 days or more.

So - Quicken approves 11,000 loans a month eh? If they tie up or delay or deny 12,000 applications per month for 30 days and hold onto $125.00 refund of the $500.00, they'll make A MILLION and a HALF - $1,500,000.00 per MONTH just in INTEREST alone based on the paultry 1% interest from a real bank savings account - and you KNOW they get a higher percentage rate than that. Most likely would buy a batch of 30 day CD's that yeild 5% interest over 30 days and have a batch (a couple million dollars) expire every day of the month after they collect interest which would free up funds on a daily for refunds to people who actually fight to get what little they can manage to get back. That is - one might get a refund AFTER some serious interest has been generated in the bank with it.

There is enough evidence to speculate that these type companies will "hold" refunds forever if you don't fight for it.

Now - logically, since Quicken Loans has over 1,300 employees, and probably most all of them except for Jay, Michelle and Brian are in the sales boiler room, you KNOW there are more than 1,000 so-called pre-approved applications being submitted Per STATE every month and "awwwwwww, unfortunately TURNED DOWN" every month - (gee I don't know what happened....you were pre-approved and everything looked so good.....).

Buh Bye $500.00 that pays salaries for the happy boiler room sales people "bankers".

Yes, it's true. If you read the "pre-approval" agreement, it says,
With your deposit of $500.00, you AUTHORIZE Lender to BEGIN processing your loan application and advance out-of-pocket expenses on your behalf. You authorize Lender to charge this deposit amount to your credit card. Lender will not accept a check or cash.

IF your application is approved: At the closing, Lender will credit the amount of your deposit on your closing statement toward your closing costs. IF your application is denied: Lender will refund the deposit less the actual amount of out-of-pocket expenses incurred on your behalf for, among other items, the cost of an appraisal and/or credit report.
Please note that I personally capitalized important words in these quoted paragraphs for emphasis. The actual wording has no words on the papers that are in all caps.

This tells you that your "pre-approval" is worthless and Quicken Loans states what will happen IF you are approved for a loan and IF you are not approved. It does not matter what the boiler-room sales people tell you or promise you. It just matters what is on the paper you sign.

Now........about that CREDIT REPORT. I pulled my husbands and my credit reports last night. Today, I informed the little boiler-room salesman that called again that I had pulled it. I saw many errors on my husband's credit report.

The salesman told me that he had a great readout from both of our scores combined. I said, "But it doesn't even list my husband's correct employer!" He said, "Well that doesn't matter, what I have shows your records are in good shape, but it doesn't show employer information." That's exactly what he said. He said our combined scores were 665. What does that matter if the "reports" are grossly incorrect?

It's OKAY for our so-called credit REPORTS to not show my husband's correct employer?????


We'll get approved for a loan with incorrect information on our official financial statements and credit report? I DON"T THINK SO.

But - that's what he told me. And that is where he totally lost me right there - 100%. I knew it was just a ploy to get my $500.00 since no lender would let that slide. How stupid did he think I was?? Unfortunately for him, not stupid enough. Rats - he missed his little sales commission. He was overly reassuring that all of the records would not matter - he could get me a loan with low payments - no problem.

Most people would have been over-joyed to hear those words knowing that they have less-than-perfect credit. Sure they would. People in dire straights, hoping to refinance to get out of a bad situation are being LIED to and these are the people that are so desparate to get out of financial situations they'll believe just about anything to grab onto one ray of human decency and hope.

Well, you won't get hope OR human decency from such outfits as Quicken Loans.

I'm just WAITING for them to charge my credit card. I did not sign ANY papers of any kind and did not authorize them to use the card for anything. Obviously, they did NOT pull an official credit report. He said their report did not show "employers" or previous addresses so obviously, it was not an official credit report - so how can he make any "pre-qualification"? I'm going to look into the legalities of that statement (and others).

When I declined to send in the paperwork, he started pressuring me with, "Well, the interest rates could go up substatially by tomorrow - you need to lock in now!" I said, "Why didn't you say that last night when I said I needed to talk about this with my husband. That wasn't an issue from yesterday through today......." Lots of boiler-room-sales-banker stammering insued.

We'll see. I'll be ready. I own an online television station ya know ;-)


Good luck everybody, and take the time to read ANYTHING you put your name to. If it does not say in writing what you've been told - do NOT sign!!!

PS - I have noticed the hostility and attacks by so-called Quicken Loans Employees on this website. This type of attacks on consumers in a public forum is NOT professional by any means. Having your employees attack consumers in public calling them "stupid", Idiot" and telling them to "get a life"? Wow, that is truly a professional outfit, eh? I can just see the bankers at Wachovia and Wells Fargo frantically taking notes on how to handle them pesky consumers properly according to Quicken Loans Professional Training Manuals for Customer Service.

PS-PS - Need a good lawyer? Check this guy out. I'm partial toward his current portfolio ;-):

Bradley Blower was lead counsel of the FTC's predatory lending case against Capital City Mortgage Corporation and managed several of the Commission's other major predatory lending cases, including the First Alliance Mortgage Corp. settlement and the Stewart Finance Company, Inc. case.
Mr. Blower managed several of the Commission's important FCRA/FACTA cases including the settlements with Quicken Loans, Sprint, AT&T and Imperial Palace.
Bradley H. Blower served as an assistant director and senior attorney in the Federal Trade Commission's Bureau of Consumer Protection from 1998 to 2004, where he managed and litigated cases involving consumer credit, predatory lending and financial privacy.
Relman & Associates, 1225 Nineteenth Street NW, Suite 600, Washington, DC 20036

GOOD Links:

FBI - Mortgage Fraud - (Report It!) - http://www.fbi.gov/publications/financial/fcs_report052005/fcs_report052005.htm#d1

Center for Responsible Lending
302 West Main Street
Durham, NC 27701
Phone: (919) 313-8500
Fax: (919) 313-8595

910 17th Street NW, Suite 500
Washington, DC 20006
Phone: (202) 349-1850
Fax: (202) 289-9009

Predatory Lending & Victim Referral Services:
Phone: (919) 313-8523

Mortgage Bankers Association

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Consumer Federation of America (CFA)

Raleigh, North Carolina

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/27/2006 10:04 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/quicken-loans/troy-michigan-48084/quicken-loans-quicken-loans-deceptive-practices-quicken-loans-scam-quicken-loans-fraud-198550. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 UPDATE Employee

I'm confused

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

Was the purpose of this thread to tout your money making abilities? Or was it to address the concerns of someone who feels mistreated by Quicken?

Bottom line -

Quicken Loans' clients return to Quicken for their mortgage needs. We do good work for people all across the country. If you feel you have been mistreated, you have channels with which to work through. In fact, on a couple of other threads on this site regarding Quicken Loans, the company's client relations team has responded and resolved several issues.

I hope anyone who has a problem with the company first follows up with their banker and, barring that, utilizes the company's website and help numbers and e-mail addresses if they feel their banker has been uncooperative.

Good luck to you, Byron, and I look forward to seeing your disputes resolved.
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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To : R in Livonia (Jay) - Quicken's #1 Cheerleader

AUTHOR: Byron - (U.S.A.)

Your clearly missing the point. You enjoy working your 60 hours a week, while only being paid for 40 hours and hope that you make enough units closed or you may or may not get a commission check. What a way to live? Dan G. is getting over big time. I was an fool for 5 years, it was great training but nothing like the REAL world. R - your playing ball at the play ground while I'm on Ford Field. I don't work for anyone, I own my own mortgage company. What I do is what real brokers do everyday, we find or buy or own leads and we CLOSE them and make $. What you do is just like being on an GM assembly line, you take orders. Your an Order Taker or Telemarketer. So enjoy your 60 plus work week, hoping that they may pay you and I'll take my working HALF those hours making six fig's and spending time with my kids and even playing a round of golf in the middle of the week.

You seem to always find some B.S. answer that covers your OVERCHARGING HIGHER FEES/RATES THAN THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY BY FAR. I WILL STILL BEAT ANY GFE YOU PUT IN FRONT OF ME FROM YOUR DEAR SWEET QUICKEN COMPANY - ANY DAY ANY TIME. I bet you don't even have an wife or kid's as well, so maybe that type of life is what you want. Quicken also needs to pay the 200 ex-bankers who are sueing them the money that they owe them and stop trying to use the court system to put it off - PAY UP DAN G. - PAY UP BILL E. - PAY UP PAT M. - PAY UP JAY F. YOU OWE US! See the website for details on this lawsuite @ overtimecases.com - Law firm of Nichols,Kaster & Anderson -when you see thier a** on Monday morning tell them BYRON said to pay up. They are not above the Federal Law of the US. Every company that done this, has LOST. They have you all scared to join and stand up for your rights. I remember the meeting when Dan and Bill said to all of us - "If you sign up for the law suit we will know" They don't scare me, they have sent me letter after letter saying that I can't work after I quit for 9 months. F*** them! You mean to tell me that I can't make an living to feed my kids - They'll have to kill me before that ever happens. My family has an legal team as well and were well connected just like Mr. G your fearless owner. So I say to you R-Livonia go back to playing kick ball at the playground and I'll keep scoring my touch downs at FORD FIELD. PEACE OUT R MY MAN (or mouse) AND I'M DONE WITH THIS WORD EXCHANGE, I HAVE LOANS TO CLOSE THIS MONTH.

PS R - I've been putting a ton of cash in your co-workers hands, send me an deal that falls out (which is about 40% of Q's pipeline) and you'll see the difference in my pay vs yours. I'm always looking for people who enjoy part time side $. After all you only make $300 to $500 an deal and they may or may not pay you if you close enough units. (what a joke)
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#3 UPDATE Employee

For Byron

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

You seem fixated on two things - insinuating sexual acts and insisting on an unfair payscale.

First, at no point have I given you any reason to personally attack me or my professional standard. That you continue to bring up the visual image of people on their knees is both unnecessary and disgusting.

As for the pay, I won't lie, it is not the most forgiving system. It does tend to lead to a fair amount of turnover. For those of us who have shown consistant success, however, it has been a rewarding, enjoyable career.

I also find it horribly misleading that all Byron insists who work within the company as bankers are undertrained kids with zero concept of professional courtesy. I definitely encourage anyone in the Cleveland or Detroit area to ask to visit a Quicken office. Not only will they be impressed by the technology and scale of our operations but I do think they will apprieciate the blend of business attire with a twist on corporate culture. We are not your typical office; what we do is foster an environment where all of our staff stay energetic and enthusiastic while maintaining their identities as people. To some, it may seem like a zoo. No other corporate climate, though, can compare in leaving it's staff feeling better about the daily grind.

Who do you work for, Byron? I would be more than happy to compare environments personally. Not once have I knocked anything you do or have done, (though I now know of you by the reputation you left behind) other than to state there are advantages to be working with a direct lender over a mortgage broker. Why continue the personal attacks and tout yourself and your business rather than attack and insinuate gross behavior?
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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Still A Brain Washed Slave of Quicken

AUTHOR: Byron - (U.S.A.)

To R - Livonia,

Again, your clearly missing the point. You don't make $500 bucks a loan, that's ONLY paid to you IF you CLOSE 10 units or more. If you close less than that, your under your sales director or DVP's desk trying to convince him/her to pay you so that you can pay your rent/mortgage and feed your family after working 60 plus hours an week. Are you kidding me???

When I first started working at Quicken we were making $1000 an loan, until they went out on an rampage to hire every kid in Detroit area who can hold an phone up to their ear after giving them a quick class training on how to "TAKE AN DEPOSIT". I CAN BEAT ANY QUICKEN/ROCK GFE. THAT'S A LIE YOUR TELLING ABOUT BROKER BEING MORE COSTLY. You must be young and naive. Call up Quicken and ask your so-called BANKER if you stop over for an cup of coffee with them, and you will see what I mean. It's a full blown ZOO. And your so-called Banker will have on jeans and an tee shirt, 22 year old college drop out kid will meet you at the door.

Now, if you come down for an cup of coffee to my office, you will giving the most professional treatment and leave paying less closing cost than QUICKEN/ROCK. Maybe, I seem unprofessional, but I'm just telling it like it is. Again, R-Livonia go back to putting on those knee pads, hope that you close enough units (no mortgage co. in the industry uses UNITS, another Jay F. rippoff scam to make him and Dan more $)

Also, R-Livonia what happens if your out sick for an week and can't close enough units? Do they pay you? Huh, NOT! Unless your in the click with Jay, which means you had to use those extra padded knee pads. You can have Quicken. I hope you make it all the way up to DVP. You may not see your family or have an life.

QUICKEN is nothing but an SWEATSHOP FACTORY OF HIGH TURN OVER KIDS. #1 to work for? That's a huge JOKE. I have friends in that place and they hate it their, but if you use your smarts you can make extra money on the side with just the deals that FALL OUT. I can close most deals that you all loose everyday. That's why MOST so-called Bankers (in there)are handing out deals to brokers to get paid under the table. I hope you all stay in business, I can make a (six-fig) living off your crumbs and buying my own leads.
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#5 Consumer Suggestion

I used Quicken

AUTHOR: Heather - (U.S.A.)

My husband and I bought a house last year and we used Quicken Loans. I actually found them online. We contacted them and ended up dealing with a man named Dennis. He took the time to work with us and fit us into the best loan possible. He explained a bunch of different options that we didn't even know we could do.

They got us our loan in about 30 days which we were thrilled about since most places take much longer. We told them when we wanted to close by and they did their best to get it done on that date. In fact we could have closed earlier if it wasn't for delays caused by repairs the sellers needed to do before closing.

I am very happy we went with Quicken. Dennis still keeps in touch with us to see how things are going. I have and will keep recommending Quicken to anyone looking for a mortgage.
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#6 UPDATE Employee

Further rebuttal

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

First, I do find it distasteful that someone who files a complaint and adds she finds Quicken response to be unprofessional is the first to decry my responses as "sad, sad, sad." Are you incapable of responding without adding personal insult.

Second, for Byron -

You may have found your time with Quicken Loans to be unsatisfactory for yourself, but, without doubt, you grossly overexaggerate several points regarding the company. Further, your personal attacks are particularly distasteful and completely unprofessional.

With regards to the Better Business Bureau:

They are an organization founded in 1912 and are one of the oldest, most well known consumer protection watchdogs. That you would so quickly bash them without ever having even looked to them for use speaks volumes about a desire to vent anger rather than take genuine, constructive action regarding how you believe you were mistreated.

With regards to credit reports and putting together an initial loan proposal:

My guess is you have never actually seen a residential mortgage credit report. I am not sure where you receive your information but, at no point, is employer information included on such a report. Further, any banker at any company can use only the information as provided by the client plus that credit report to formulate a loan. If the client is inaccurate in what they have told the banker, be it an overinflated value of home or overstated income, then the loan structure can change. These changes come from an alteration of risk, pure and simple.

With regards to the deposit amount:

Quicken Loans does not actually have a standard amount for the deposit they ask for. This number can actually be negotiated; personally, I have collected deposits ranging from $300 to $1000. As explained before, though, this deposit only covers a portion of the closing costs. If you truly believe we are in the business of taking deposits without finishing a loan, then you would be assuming we use a business model in which we profit from spending multiple thousands of dollars processing a loan, only to deny it and keep a small portion of what we have spent.

To Byron:

I have done mortgage brokering. You accuse a Quicken banker of trying to front and backload a loan; a mortgage broker's profits come purely from the added on Origination costs. By their very nature, brokers have to be more expensive than a direct lender, be it your local bank, working directly with a large national lender along the lines of Countrywide, Wachovia, or Wells Fargo, or a direct lender such as Quicken Loans. How many times have you charged your client a 2% origination fee with which to make your money? Personally, I make $200-500 per loan. Your profit generally goes from 1%-3% of the amount of the transaction.
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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To : R in Livonia - A Brain Washed Slave of Quicken

AUTHOR: Byron - (U.S.A.)

To R - Livonia,

Get off those new knee pads, when you come up from under Jay's, Dan's, and Bill's desk for air, then talk to us like a real PERSON. Beth didn't write this for the fun of it. Anyone who spends that much time to write in detail of her treatment from your company is very believeable. I've wroked at QUICKEN for 5 YEARS (Quit in Jan.2006) and it's turned into an Sweat Shop with 20 year old kids all on the phone bragging about how they RAPE clients in fee's and rate's, not knowing that the company posted rates are already priced WELL ABOVE the rest of the industry. They try to make 6 points (or 6%) off of EVERY loan (On the front and back of an loan). I'm now a real Mortgage Broker, and just after being on my own for 9 months now, I REALLY can see how Quicken is getting over in this business - all those fee's on your GFE. So to you R-Livonia stop being brain washed by your so-called Leaders. Thier day is coming. I've already been interviewed by the FBI Mortgage Task Force, and I have giving them key info to how Quicken treats it's Bankers, Clients etc. You all should be closed down, all Quicken is an high tech Loan Giant or MCA type of mortgage company. And to take $500 from people is unreal, I know I've made more money then you Mr.R and I bet I've worked less hours. Stop covering for your Leaders, let them do it. Also, if you believe in what your saying than why don't you disclose your first name. Fear of Jay not letting you back under his desk. I don't care who knows me. I'm sure Jay is hidding behind his laptop, leaving you guys another one of those voice mails telling you all to "Get back on the phone and take some deposits" Go back and close your 10 units and hope that they pay you, when you grow up maybe you can be a real MORTGAGE BANKER (Joke!)

PS I bet your gunning to get your own team. Keep in mind, it's a fight. Jay has everyone in that place fighting to get under his desk. Not Me! I have my own team, without getting under someone's desk for getting it, or ripping people off and I even make more money. Now who's the fool? R-Livonia is one for sure.
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#8 Author of original report

Nice Cover up

AUTHOR: Karen - (U.S.A.)

Whoever responded to this post is obviously trying to "white wash" quicken loans yet again.

A better way of "airing my gripes" Mr. "R - Livonia, Michigan" is to get the word out to others without being inhibited by "good old boys".

On Credit Reports:

When your people give an estimate, the "credit report" has not been officially pulled. So how then can you give an accurate or real "estimate" of a pending new mortgage? DUH.

On $500.00 Deposit

Why is it different in different areas/states? Some are $300, $400, $500. Why the difference? In addition, yes it costs to have appraisals done. Why are the home owners only allowed to use YOURS - TSI......That Quicken OWNS. THAT is collusion.

On "Quicken has a relationship with the biggest watchdog in America"......

How much do you pay them per year? Blood moneys from the pockets of ordinary citizens.

Don't try to white wash the scam. It is pathetic on your part. It looks sad, sad, sad.

Mr. no name.

Beth Knotts
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#9 UPDATE Employee

A couple of counter points

AUTHOR: R - (U.S.A.)

On the sense of urgency to conduct business in a timely manner:

You feel pressured and harassed when a banker asks for your business the very same day. The truth is, the market pauses for no one. Where you may want to think twenty four hours to a week regarding a mortgage decision, the financial markets that determine all mortgage interest rates change daily, sometimes hourly. Where you say pressure, I say waiting increases risk.

On credit reports:

The truth is, your employer information, at no point, shows up on a credit report. What we see is some of your most recent addresses that were entered in as inquiries over the last several years, your credit score, and any and all debts that have been reported to the three credit bureaus. That is it. If you feel the information on one of these reports is misleading or fraudulent, that is information reported by Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian, not Quicken Loans.

On the $500 deposit:

It costs money to do a loan. Further, it costs money to do an appraisal. Given the cost of the ordered appraisal, plus the expense of beginning title work, payoff orders, and the man-hours of getting the work done, the $500 doesn't even begin to cover the expenses involved in doing the loan if a client backs out or has a low appraisal value. Further, at no point is it claimed that the $500 covers only the appraisal; that cost also takes care of other third party expenses.

Prior to the implementation of the deposit, Quicken Loans had a genuine problem with people initiating loans, finding out their appraisal values, then walking away from the loan and leaving the company with the bill.

On the choice of appraiser:

TSI uses a national pool of independantly contracted appraisers. If we were genuinely in collusion with our appraisers, then not a single loan written would become undoable due to low appraisal value. The truth is, low appraisal valules are the number one reason loans end up not working out. At that point, the client may have lost out on their loan opportunity and Quicken Loans lost out on their ability to help the new client.

Regarding the deposit 'profits':

Truth is, Quicken Loans just got done doing $2 billion in loans. Even given the math where a theoretical bundle is being made, that sum absolutely pales in comparison to the sheer volume of business the company does on a monthly basis.

Finally, a better way of airing your gripes:

My suggestion to anyone who has any gripe with your Quicken Loans experience is to first contact your mortgage banker and his or her director. If that proves unsatisfactory, contact the Better Business Bureau. Quicken Loans treats any and all inquiries with them with the utmost seriousness and acts upon those concerns with genuine concern and urgency. To date, Quicken Loans has a spotless reputation with the largest watchdog of consumer service.
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Seems like several people including here in this complaint had a Quicken person tell them to leave something blank or change information in order to submit a misleading application to lenders (in order to "get the loan through"). I know I was told to. Below shows illegal activity and how it is defined in the state of Washington, and states do differ a little but not a whole lot. I really THINK (my opinion) that the Quicken "banker" submitting a false or incorrect credit report is illegal!

From the heraldnet.com/stories/06/04/30/100bus_f1kelly001.cfm website:

Loan officers who submit false information about a buyer's qualifications, such as employment history, amount of income or source of down payment, in order to get a deal to go through may be guilty of theft by deception as well as other crimes, including forgery, said Rebecca Jacobsen of the attorney general's office.

When consumers think of forgery, they often visualize the signing of someone else's name on a check. However, it is forgery to create a false document or alter a written document with the intent to perpetrate a fraud. It is also forgery to offer or pass off as true a document known to be forged with the intent to carry out a fraud.

For example, documents that are regularly created or altered in mortgage fraud schemes include "gift" letters that purport to explain the origin of down payment funds, employment histories, income verifications and citizenship records. Even if a loan representative does not create or alter the documents but is aware that the documents are false, the loan rep still commits forgery if he forwards the false documents to a lender for use in making a financing decision.
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#11 Consumer Comment

Quicken Loans OWNS The Appraisal Service!

AUTHOR: Karen - (U.S.A.)

William Emerson, Quicken Loans, Inc. - Chief Executive Officer. Bill Emerson has been CEO since February 2002, and oversees the daily management and growth for Quicken Loans. He holds a bachelor's degree in business from Penn State University, where he was a member of the 1982 National Championship football team.
Quicken Loans Inc., which consists of Quicken Loans, Rock Financial and Title Source, has more than 3,000 employees. The company closed nearly $12 billion in mortgage loans in 2004. Quicken Loans has been recognized by FORTUNE Magazine as one of their "100 Best Companies to Work For" in America.

The above information can be found on

This is a blatant form of the "collusion" situation.

Quicken Loans own application paperwork says they use TSI on a regular basis and they refuse to allow consumers to instigate their own 3rd party appraisers.

The attorney general needs to hear complaints on this "highly-probable illegal activity" now.
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#12 Author of original report

No Credit Report Authorized

AUTHOR: Karen - (U.S.A.)

In my particular case - there was no authorization to "pull" any official credit report in writing. I too, did not send in the written application documents.

The phone rep. quoted partial information to me just like what happened in the original report posted in the first complaint description.

It looks like we both experienced the same thing.
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#13 Consumer Suggestion

Question about your CR

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I didn't notice that you gave him permission (which must be in writing) to pull your Credit Report.

If he did without your consent, he must make you an offer of credit. Otherwise you have a tort lawsuit that is ripe.

Good luck.
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#14 Consumer Suggestion

Question about your CR

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I didn't notice that you gave him permission (which must be in writing) to pull your Credit Report.

If he did without your consent, he must make you an offer of credit. Otherwise you have a tort lawsuit that is ripe.

Good luck.
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#15 Consumer Suggestion

Question about your CR

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I didn't notice that you gave him permission (which must be in writing) to pull your Credit Report.

If he did without your consent, he must make you an offer of credit. Otherwise you have a tort lawsuit that is ripe.

Good luck.
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#16 Consumer Suggestion

Question about your CR

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

I didn't notice that you gave him permission (which must be in writing) to pull your Credit Report.

If he did without your consent, he must make you an offer of credit. Otherwise you have a tort lawsuit that is ripe.

Good luck.
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#17 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: Karen - (U.S.A.)

If you'll notice on the bottom of the initial "application" that you submit to kick-off the "loan" process, the tiny print says:

QUOTE: "Quicken Loans Inc., "LENDER", does not require the use of a particular provider of settlement services, with the exception of Appraisal Management Services, WHOSE SERVICES WE REPEATEDLY USE."

It says their management services will select an appraiser from their list of appraisers on the document also. It also names their "appraisal service" that they "REPEATEDLY USE".

Guess what? It is TSI in Livonia, MI.

Gues what TSI stands for? Title Source Inc!

Title Source
1450 West Long Lake Road, Suite 400
Troy, MI 48098-6351
Phone: 888.848.5355
Fax: 248.312.1278
Email: CustomerService@TitleSourceInc.com

There website says this about their products / services:

Quote: "From Property and Ownership Reports to full Title Insurance policies, Title Source offers a wide variety of title related products designed to properly secure your lien position.
Title Source maintains underwriting relationships with the highest rated title insurers in the industry, including First American Title Insurance Company, Fidelity National Title Insurance Company, Ticor Title Insurance Company, & Lawyers Title Insurance Company."

Unquote (as of July 27, 2006 - watch for them to change their website at any time)

Talk about COLLUSION........ and that little salesbanker wanted to yell "COLLUSION" at ME for wanting to get a local 3rd party appraiser?????

As Daffy Duck says, "It is to laugh...."
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