Rather Bull Terriers - Heather Collins Ripoff RAGE Aggressive Dogs & Bad Temperaments Breeder of NO HELP Goderich Ontario

I have a 4 year old English Bull Terrier, with no health or socialization problems that I purchased from Heather Collins (Rather Kennels) of Goderich, Ontario, with full pedigree papers and CKC registration.  When he was young (less than 8mo.) he played a little over aggressive, but with a little TRAINING he grew out of this and is one of the sweetest natured dogs in my neighbourhood!  If you had to put a 6 month old puppy to sleep for aggressive behaviour then you should be ashamed of yourselves, not the breeder. I don't know how you managed to mess up the life of an innocent puppy the way you did, but it took me roughly 10 months to train (Loki) to play more gently with other dogs and people. It took diligence and consistency and constant socializing with other dogs and people. Heather was correct when she told you to give your dog to a more experienced owner, Loki is my first personal dog, but I grew up with Airedale Terriers and applied some basic training knowledge to my own puppy.  I would definitely reccomend Rather's Kennel to anyone looking for a Bull Terrier and will likely return to Heather Collins if she is still breeding Bullies in the future.  I feel in a case such as this the owner should have been investigated for animal abuse, some people intentionally train their dogs to be aggressive and should be fined or imprisoned and the same penalties should be applied to negligent owners as well.

Here's a little food for thought....... My parents breed Doberman Pinschers. Therefore, all of my life, I have been around large, "Mean, aggressive" dogs.

My dogs used to follow me wherever I went. I loved them all when I was younger, and love all of them still.

There I am walking to school when I was 12 with my cousin. We see a yellow lab come running out of a woman's house, and she is yelling "BESSIE GET BACK INSIDE RIGHT NOW! GET OVER HERE!"

Needless to say, I did not make it to school that day. Instead, I spent my day in the hospital, getting stiches. I suffered a concussion from hitting the pavement when the dog pushed me to the ground.

I received five stitches on the back of my head from how hard I hit the concrete. I will have scars for the rest of my life running from right above my belly button over to my right side, right by my chest because of the dog bites.

I made it to the paper. No one said "what a viscious dog, it should get put to sleep" because, after all, this was a LAB, not a Dobie or "pit bull". The dog was put to sleep only after my family got an attorney involved.

The owner insisted that her dog was just "overly excited", that it's not "used to children" Aren't lab's supposed to be some of the greatest dogs in the world? I hold nothing against them.

But my point, to all of you people that have kept this thread alive for so long, is this.... It never really matters what type of dog it is. Her dog showed no signs of abuse or neglect, it wasn't bred to fight or any of this other nonsense that I have read here.

It was a dog, and a very poorly socialized and ill-trained one at that. Maybe it WAS abused in some way, I will never really know. So there I was, the girl with all of the "Mean dogs" at her house, recovering from my wounds on my parents' couch with them.

That was 13 years ago, and I own a Rottweiler and an American Staffordshire Terrier now... YES, A BIG MEAN SCARY PIT BULL.

Hell, if a lab's going to bite me, then any dog can. My rottie is 7 years old now, and has never show much as shown her teeth at something. My Staff is 4 and is just as friendly. The Dachsund that lives in a house two streets down from me just bit his owner's son last week. Get it yet?

Tim I would be nipping in the butt any problems, rough playing now. So far from what I understand there are many others who have had numerous problems temperament wise from this kennel. I'd suggest you take some serious note of this and take your puppy to puppy preschool and obedience the whole lot.

If he is already showing more aggression then your last dog please start considering the writing on the wall and start training now.

Kids no longer to play rough with the puppy period. This is a big problem when puppies of any breed leave their siblings way too early, they don't learn the very important skills etc that they learn in a pack environment.

So I urge you to enrol in puppy preschool training and continue it with obedience.

Best of luck with your puppy and hopefully you won't end up in the same situation as the other people have.

Personally I have no time nor respect for breeders who just breed and do not campaign their dogs in the show ring. If you are going to be breeding and selling them, then you must show your dogs whether it be at all breeds or specialty events to see how competitive your dogs really are and what you lack. Otherwise it seems to be purely for money. JMO

Incidentally, I show quite often at all breeds shows throughout the year, travel for them too and especially try to get to all the bully specialties when money and time permits in Australia. On saying that I have been interstate now 3 x this year and about to soon.

It is the only way to compare your future breeding stock and see what you have what you need and what others have got.

Well, to the original poster of the complaint I can only say this:

#1 I am sorry you had a problem with Rathers...for my family she was ok....and the puppy is 8-9 weeks old and looking gorrrgeous.
I will honestly admit he is more agressive then our last bully but I believe it is because we have two old teenagers that play rougher with him then they are supposed to...WHICH I AM NOT happy about....but will be putting a stop to.

#2 Rathers has puppies that have won all kinds of shows...they do no longer enter shows themselves but THEIR DOGS DO AND WIN!

#3 I do nottt THINK it is too late for you to phone Rathers and see if you can still work things out and get another puppy.... I am sure that tempers were high and likely things got said and attitudes go off and perhaps you will now, if you are calmer and have vented, have a better chance of getting satisfation from her...I can tell you she had a gorgeous female brindle we almost took as a 2nd pup....

#4 BULLIES CONTINUE TO BE THE SWEETEST DOG ON THE PLANET FOR ME....WITHOUT A DOUBT....HOWEVER, I AM NOT NAIVE ENOUGH TO EVER TRUST ONE ALONE WITH A CHILD....EVEN THOUGH THE LIKELY HOOD OF A
SPANIEL BITING KID IS LIKELY HIGHER....THE BULLIES ARE TOUGH POOCHES AND SHOULD NEVER BE 100% trusted EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE SERIOUSLY MAN'S DEFINITE BEST FRIEND AND LOYAL COMPANION BAR NONE....

#5 PIT BULLS...never owned one....I feel sorry for those that are being banned in Ontario....not dog's fault ...OWNERS FAULT!!!!
example: WHOOOOOOO in their right mind would own a pitbull and leave it tied to a pole ON A SIDEWALK with all kinds of people walking by it while they went into the store...IS THAT NOT ASKING FOR TROUBLE???? yep...and the dog attacked...likely the victim provoked the dog...or the dog was just AFRAID so it fought back UNFORTUNATELY for the victim...I SAY FINE THE d**n OWNER BIG TIME!!! anddddd TAKE THE DOG AWAY FROM THAT OWNER IMMEDIATELY...PUT THATTTTT DOG DOWN...END OF PROBLEM....DO NOT PENALIZE ALL OWNERS OR THE BREED....

If a dog attacked my kid = DEAD DOG end of story!
and I am DOG LOVER.

KAREN - Please (please please) file your own SEPARATE report on your experience with this kennel so that future internet searches on the kennel name brings up TWO SEPARATE reports from two victims instead of just one. See the Rip-Off-Reports suggestion below:

->If you are also a victim, you must file your own Rip-off Report. DO NOT RESPOND BELOW.
Filing your own Rip-off Report helps show everyone the number of victims and creates a more accurate working history of a business, or person.

Once your report is created, you can send the link to the report to the Bull Terrier Club of America, the Bull Terrier Club of Canada and Bull Terrier Rescue. Letters documenting your experience must be sent to the AKC and the CKC. This was my way of getting justice for myself, as little comfort as it provided at least it was SOMETHING. My report led you to find out about what happened to me and OUR reports will hopefully let other potential customers know what we went through!

ROBERT - (or anyone else with similar comments to his) please refrain from posting anything more to this thread. Your posts add little value to this discussion. This site is called rip-off-reports.com, it is NOT an appropriate place to talk about your opinions of any breed and to tell people that they got what they deserved: "You asked for a viscious beast, and you got one. Enjoy." If you have nothing to add that will help these people with their experience with RATHER BULL TERRIERS, please do not say any more. Per this site's admin note below, I'm not sure why your posts are being printed anyway.

->Rip-off Report is also not accepting comments like those found on many sites that have "threads" with meaningless comments, ..in most cases using foul and insulting language against others, similar to those assaults on VICTIMS WHO HAVE COME TO THE RIP-OFF REPORT FOR JUSTICE.

Thank you.

We are NOT saying the SAME thing - Those of you who know NOTHING about dog breeds are the ones who are saying the same thing - This woman had A ENGLISH BULL TERRIER NOT A PIT BULL TERRIER - NOT A STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER - AN ENGLISH BULL TERRIER - There are NO stories out there of a ENGLISH BULL TERRIER mauling anything - TRY and get your facts straight before you start your witch hunts - PLEASE!!!!!

We are NOT saying the SAME thing - Those of you who know NOTHING about dog breeds are the ones who are saying the same thing - This woman had A ENGLISH BULL TERRIER NOT A PIT BULL TERRIER - NOT A STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER - AN ENGLISH BULL TERRIER - There are NO stories out there of a ENGLISH BULL TERRIER mauling anything - TRY and get your facts straight before you start your witch hunts - PLEASE!!!!!

Robert, you truly need to get out a bit more and find your calling in life cause you lack knowledge in dogs period. Yet again your going on and on and yet the dogs your describing ie bull terrier and staffordshire are NOT the same breed and do NOT look alike period.

Go to a dog show and stop looking a fool to the rest of the readers who are eductated and can clearly see there is a very big difference with the dogs.

By the way, did you know the Staffordshire Bull Terrier has a height standard of 16 inches at the shoulder? Do you know how small they actually are?

I don't understand why people harp on about the past which mind you is the late 1800's --- like HELLLLOOOOOOO we are in the year 2004. But hey if those b*****d people used these dogs in the fighting pits back then,,,,hell despite not being in the pits for god knows now how many centuries/decades, guess they're still what they must have been hey. Well according to you they are.

Just look at you Robert, you must have had em COWBOYS in your family right, cause you still go on about your dear 12 guage shotgun. So if there were outlaws and gangsters in the family therefore all their decendents should be brushed with the same brush - irrespective of the truth hey Robert. It don't matter if the outlaws were in the 1800's they are down from those roots so they must all be bad today.

Well isn't that what you keep harping on about the dogs?

Robert go to hell your nothing but an idiot, who doesn't wish to be educated and I have no time for any moron who keeps sprouting off their mouth without truly getting an education on what their talking about.

For your information what James Hinks created was a dog for the show ring and the rich of the day. Just because the twit decided to fight them didn't make them a fighting dog, just remember, just because he wanted to prove a point in the pit didn't mean the rest of the dogs were the same. Not every dog bred by him was fought so how can you keep feathering and taring a whole breed.

Robert there is a HUGE difference between the cruel and illegal sport of dog fighting and dogs that are man biters. But yet again, your too blinded with hate for the bullbreeds and for god knows reason why, you don't own them.

HEY ROBERT, tell you what, go hand your gun in too, cause guns kill people. Oh also hand in your car, cause cars kill people too. Sounds stupid right? Well thats how your sounding to the rest of us cause you can't think logically of anything.

I feel your pain, Karen, and understand your frustration. The Bull Terrier Rescue was of enormous support to me, even though my dog was ultimately put down and not turned into Rescue. Rescue told me that from what they understood of my pup's behavior, there was nothing more they could have done for him anyways. Yours and my puppy were most likely littermates. Back when I was going through my horrible experience I had heard of another owner with similar problems and wished that I knew who you were so that we could provide some level of comfort to one another. I too had big plans and high hopes for a loyal, lifetime companion and cannot tell you how disappointed and traumatized I am by this whole experience. I still cannot look at the many pictures of my puppy and will not be able to for a long long time.

If you ever feel like talking, please feel free to contact me

Bless you for everything you tried to do for your boy. We have to take comfort in the fact that we both did everything we could AND MORE and that there was nothing more WE could have done. There is no doubt in my mind that there was no other alternative for my pup. He is at the rainbow bridge now and I hope finally at peace...

A pit bull IS a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. I can look at any picture provided by the AKC and they all look the same. The AKC descriptions are identical. Here's the best part...the HISTORY of the pitbull is directly from the Staffordshire. This is because they are the same dog. The term "clown" is a running joke in all of them. They all try to claim that the 2 are soooooooo different, yet they also finally admit that they are the same breed. "Pitbulls are bred to fight. Staffordshire, or English Bull Terriers are bred ...". Blah blah, blah! So, the only difference is one is bred to fight, the other is not. I have 2 boys. If one takes up boxing, the other takes up sculpting, does that mean they are of different bloodlines? NO! You asked for a viscious beast, and you got one. Enjoy. By the way, I included a story from the Atlanta Journal/Constitution in a previous rebuttal that was never printed. It was about the owner of 2 of the savages that were mauling a 12 year old girl in the street. The neighbors had complained before about them. The dogs were getting hit with bats but would not let go of their flesh ripping attack. The owner of the dogs was actually there trying to DEFEND the dogs while they were chewing this girl. Finally someone came out and put 8 rounds into the dogs, 1 hitting the dogs owner. Out of 8 rounds, only 1 dog died, the other was still attacking. Have fun with your "clowns". I've found a 12 gauge works quite well when they decide to behave as they ALWAYS do.

I also had the misfortune of purchasing a Bull Terrier puppy from Heather Collins and Rather Bull Terriers. I, however, thought I did proper investigating of her before the purchase-I contacted the Canadian Kennel Club, who gave her glowing reviews. So much for them!

I have spent the last 10 months and literally, $12,000 on my "Wills". I had to relinquish him to Bull Terrier Rescue because of his behaviors. I was responsible-he was seen by two local vets, another who specialized in Homeopathy and then there were the visits to the University of Pennsylvania Matthew J.Ryan Veterinary Hospital-the best in this country. Wills was seen by five top docs there regarding his behavior and his extreme allergies.

Wills also had four separate trainers who all agreed he was "tough". This sometimes sweet little guy had a "streak". He would turn and bite if he was not happy with the situation-that being I was putting the tiny vial of Revolution on the scruff of his neck, I was trying to get the rubber tip of my mother's cane out of his mouth, I was was trying to put ear drops (room temperature) into his ears.

I have had dogs all of my life and have never encountered a dog like Wills.

I just relinquished ownership last week and have been a wreck. My little baby-I feel as though I have abondoned him. When I traveled 1600 miles last January in the snow to get him, I had big plans. He was going to be with me for a very long time. You see, I had just lost my beloved Shar Pei to cancer. Wills was my baby.

Repeated calls to Heather Collins went unanswered. I was left to my own resources and the help of the Bull Terrier Rescue. I first contacted them in June of 2004 and was given advice on how to handle Wills. I did everything they suggested and more.

After relinquishing Wills, surprisingly we got a call from Heather Collins who spoke to my mother for I was at work. She feigned to know nothing of her other puppies having had to be put down for behavioral issues nor any other issues at that.

She, as has been stated, is only in it for the $$$$$. She cares not for the breed, not for the puppies she is selling, and most importantly, she cares not for the people her bad business tactics and poor breeding affect.

I do not expect to ever hear from Heather Collins again, nor do I expect a refund-that is not my concern. IN A PERFECT WORLD, ONE OF HEATHER COLLINS DOGS WOULD TURN ON HER. She needs to be stopped.

I need to mourn the loss of Wills and to do business the next time with someone of character and reputation.

P.S. I have read all of these rebuttals--will you unknowing few read up on dog breeds and get it right. A Bull Terrier is NOT a Pit Bull!

A couple of tips to consider from an insider's perspective on what to look for when evaluating and selecting a breeder:

The pedigrees for the English Bull Terriers from Rather Kennels are poor: VERY FEW champions, somewhere back in the lines. This wouldn't matter so much IF the breeder was careful in breeding only (non-show) dogs with the BEST temperaments - which she doesn't. At the very least a puppy from Rathers should have CHAMPION PARENTS, which you'll never find. Sadly, the LINES that this breeder uses are also poorly regarded by the BT "inner circle" -- the REPUTABLE breeders know better than to stud their dogs to this kennel and many refuse to do business with Rathers.

Buyers should be wary of breeders who do NOT show any of their dogs or do not participate in the show circuit at all. Reputable breeders (who truly breed for the love of the breed) keep up to date on breed standards and constantly strive to improving their lines. ANYONE can buy dogs, breed them and sell the puppies. None of the dogs from Rathers are show dogs.

Similarly, a reputable breeder belongs to breed clubs. This shows a personal commitment, involvement and love for the breed. Needless to say, the owner of Rather Bull Terriers is not a welcome member of any club. This kennel is not on the club's list of recommended breeders.

Another good tip: Call the local BREED RESCUE organization and find out which kennels have a higher incidence of dogs being surrendered by their owners for temperament problems. Rather Bull Terriers is not an unfamiliar name to the BT Rescue. The term "puppy miller" has come up a few times in discussions about this kennel.

Ask the breeder how many litters they have every year and at what age the puppies are sent to their new homes. The more litters and the less amount of time between litters the LESS care is being put into breeding. Never buy from a breeder who ALWAYS has puppies available. Incidentally, pups are available from Rathers pretty much year round - a constant flow of income, if you will.

Six weeks is DEFINITELY too early to send puppies to their new homes - puppies should leave no sooner than 8 weeks, with some breeders waiting until 10 weeks. At Rathers it's all about how soon the puppies can be taken from their mothers and siblings, SOLD and shipped out the door. Some are gone even before they are six weeks old so there is no time for socialization. Bite Inhibition does not exist in puppies taken from their mothers before 8 weeks so the new owners are more likely to have problems with "nipping."

Does the breeder perform ALL the necessary genetic tests for that particular breed (eyes, ears, knees, hips, etc. as appropriate)? A reputable breeder will take all the precautions and incur all the costs necessary to best ensure the health of the breeding dogs.

I love it when I visit breeder friends and see their dogs with free reign of the house, NOT locked in their individual kennels and used only as breeding dogs. They should be members of the household NOT just money-makers.

The breeder should ask the buyer as many, if not more, questions than the buyer asks of the breeder. I have to wonder how a breeder can agree to sell and ship puppies to new owners without meeting them so I recommend a breeder who does not readily ship puppies (especially not at just 6 weeks old.)

Again, this is just personal opinion but the BEST breeders out there take lots of time to breed relatively FEW litters. From word of mouth and reputation alone they have no shortage of potential customers and as such do not need to ADVERTISE in mass publications such as the local paper or Dog Fancy magazine. Rathers advertises extensively in Canada and the US - how else to find buyers for all the puppies produced every year?

Get a contract with health and temperament guarantee IN WRITING and ask up front about the REFUND/RETURN/REPLACEMENT policy. Ask for references and research the breeder on the Internet in addition to contacting the breed clubs, rescues and CKC. A person's word is only as good as their honor and honesty.

Hope this helps!

For the last time, here are the facts of the case:

1) I bought a puppy from Heather Collins at Rather Bull Terriers.
2) My puppy had Rage Syndrome.
3) I suffered alone with NO help from the breeder throughout the ordeal.
4) The REGISTERED letter I sent to the breeder asking for a REFUND OR REPLACEMENT puppy was IGNORED.

I gave her that ONE LAST CHANCE to help me and she REFUSED. This is only MY story, meant to tell others about what happened to me and how I was treated by this breeder. It does NOT mean that EVERY customer will be treated this way but it IS meant to tell people about the way this breeder treated ONE person. The ONLY person who can post a rebuttal in DEFENCE of this breeder is the breeder HERSELF. However, if you had a GOOD experience with the breeder, you are welcome to SAY SO but THAT'S IT. Your comments cannot extend beyond your OWN EXPERIENCE and "disagree" (or get involved by speaking to the breeder about it and making her lie) because there's no "disagreeing" the FACT that I did not get the help I deserved when I needed it. Saying anything else is hurtful and discrediting my feelings and everything I went through.

I just wanted to tell my side of the story. I never intended to get into a discussion about it and really don't want to think about it anymore.

Tim, the fact that you got a two year (written?) guarantee means that I SUCCEEDED in helping future buyers. Of course the breeder will say whatever she can to convince new buyers that she's a decent person. I WAS NEVER OFFERED A REPLACEMENT PUPPY - this just proves what kind of a LIAR she is! I am appalled and sickened but not surprised. Do you think I would be THIS angry and have taken all THESE measures if she had offered a refund or another puppy in the first place??? PLEASE.

You're opinion that it was "poor communication" is completely baseless. You weren't there, you have no idea what happened so you cannot make these judgemental comments. Because you bought ONE puppy from this breeder does not put you in the position to DEFEND her for treating me with contempt and disrespect. ANY seller will tell you WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HEAR to get your $1000. If the breeder has changed her tune and offering more support now you have me to thank and you're welcome. I guess one person can make a difference after all.

Tim I am glad that you are happy so far with your puppy.

But here in Australia we have rules - first rule, no puppy can go to their new home until they are 8 weeks of age. Sorry in my book an uncaring breeder or backyarder are the only ones who do let pups go that soon. I am so glad that there are strict rules for us registered breeders here in Australia that are in place for the welfare of the puppy.

Just out of curiosity did you get pedigree papers with the pup?

Incidentally Rage Syndrome is pretty serious and no puppy buyer should be left to deal with it on their own. I have hardly ever seen the problem here in Australia thank god for that.

Well...we got our 6 week old puppy Bull Terrier yesterday from Rather Bull Terriers! We have a
2 year GUARANTEE!! The puppy has health papers,
tatooed, needles.....and we are pretty darn happy campers. We made an extra appointment to see the puppies for a 2nd time = NO PROBLEM....
breeder was co-operative despite her busy lifestyle with grandchildren and stuff at present. Her adult dogs were GORRRRGEOUS BULLIES!!! Their disposition was completely normal behavior and possibly BETTER behavior then most dogs that are in front of strangers!

NOTHING WRONG WITH RATHER KENNELS AS FAR AS WE CAN TELL..ALTHOUGH I BELIEVE THIS PERSON HAD A PROBLEM I DO NOT FOR SECOND BELIEVE IT WAS THE BREEDER'S FAULT...I BELIEVE THERE WAS A POOR COMMUNICATION AND ALTHOUGH THE BREEDER DIDDDDDD OFFER ANOTHER PUPPY TO THIS COMPAINING PERSON THAT WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR HER I AM TOLD BY THE BREEDER ON THIS ABOVE INCIDENT.

SO..IN DEFENCE OF THE BREEDER..I OWE HER NOTHING AND SHE WAS GOOD TO US.....OBVIOSLY OPINIONS VARY.

English Bull Terrier (BT)
American StafordShire Terrier (AST)

Two breeds registered under different breeds.

Mental problems in a canine: Should be destroyed early on, to prevent further reproduction.

Equally bad treatment and/or diet of two seperate breed leads to outcome based on capbilities.

Jack Russle Terrier: Chained up out side with poor shelter conditions and no love and poor diet with neighbor kids teasing it.

Jack Russle Escapes: Rips child socks (while child was wearing them) chased neigbors cat and gets beat up by the cat.

Ok, Not really a news breaking item, now is it!

It's all different when it's a bigger breed that can actually inflict serious wounds on a person / other pets.

All large breed dogs should have extra care and love and socializations, because it really does matter if this large breed dog is abused and or neglected. Though any dog/pet should never be neglected and or abused.

Ok now there are alot of idiots/unknowledgable people that get these large breeds now-a-days. Lets roll back the clock to before 1979, Not many idiots owned AST then, and I don't remember the bad rap and or any cases of mauling.

WAKE UP. Large breed dogs can hurt you and or someone else. You must raise these large breeds with respect/restrant/training/love/proper diet though-out it's life of 10-20 years.

Other tips for large breeds.

Was/is your large breed from good blood lines?
Was/is your large breed raised with cats?
Was/is your large breed raised with childern?
Was/is your large breed raised with socializtion of strangers?
Do you keep your a large breed on leash all the time?
Did you buy your large breed for a pet or because of the breed?
Have you ever been around/raised this large breed before?

If any of the first 4 are anwered NO, then EXTREME care must be taken because this is no Jack Russle that we are dealing with.

All dogs are the same, if you have a mentally fit dog and rise it from 3m - 15 years with love and care, you will end up with a loving and caring pet.

The dogs getting bad raps it because of the bad people who who them.

Reflect on this:

Our Gang and The Little Rascals with Pete (American StafordShire Terrier) aired about the same time the breed was accepted by the kennel for its breed. Never bit anyone on the cast.

The infamous locking jaw is a myth. The American StafordShire Terrier and related breeds are physiologically no different from any other breed of dog.

All dog bite cases have warning signs, again back to the owner. No dog turns 180deg in one second and mauls someone. If the owner is surprised, it's because the don't want to be liable by having prior knowledge of the possabilities!

License is not need to ride a bicycle.
A license is need to operate a car.
License is not needed to own a dog A license should be needed for owners of a dog > 10 lbs.
(3 week course or whatever)

Now to the main poster:

You did the right thing by destorying a possible large breed hazard. When breeding any breed (pure line) there is always a possibilty of genetic flaws that should be screened before selling the animale. This animale should have been taken back by the breeder and destoryed by the breeder and your money returned/other pup. There are alot bad breeders of these fine line of dogs, contributing to the bad rap!

Robert maybe you should get YOUR facts straight! It is true that the owner of the dog did not state that the dog was an ENGLISH Bull Terrier but she also DID NOT state that it was a Pitbull also known as a Staffshire Terrier. You are the one who has made this a big deal about them being attacked by a pitbull. Anyone from the breeding and show/confirmation world knows that if someone is referring to a Bull Terrier they are not referring to a Pitbull, they are referring to an English Bull Terrier. This breed (the English Bull Terrier) is infact a very loveable breed of dog that is very muscular and clown like and would love nothing more than to become a lap dog.

I know this to be a fact. My daughter has two and they both have the same type of disposition and are the only two of her dogs that her two year old can use as a chair, step stool, put her finger in their eye or nose or do whatever to them and they will just lay there and take it. This is a very loveable breed and have gotten a bum rap from people like you that make assumptions and can't get the breeds straight.

First off, I'd like to say to the original poster I am absolutely horrified to hear your story. Rage is a scary thing in any dog (I've experienced it in cockers NEVER in BT's). And I'm sorry you had to go through that, it is terrible.

Secondly, I own 2 beautiful English Bull Terriers and I would own more in a heart beat!! These dogs are amazing. I am a certified canine behaviorist/trainer and my un-neutered male Bull Terrier is my best socializing dog.

However, I will not say my dogs will never bite anyone because they are dogs!! Yes, they are domesticated, but they still have many wild instincts (including those to survive). I've never personally been bit by a "fighting breed" but I've been bit by a JRT, A Newf, and mutts (all with severe dominance related aggression).

How can I best describe a BT? Well, let's see....they are grateful for all that they have...When I feed my dogs (which btw, I have 5...only 2 are English bull terriers) my Bull Terriers get excited and do little jumps in the air. They also give this happy little bark as they start to eat. They love nothing more then to lay down with mom or dad and cuddle. They both live happily in this household of 3 humans and 5 dogs (4 are male, 1 female, 2 males ARE neutered) together. When my two year old is around, the Bullies lay down...they know not to hurt her and to be careful. They LOVE cats (and no not to eat them) and every other animal they meet.

They have a happy outlook on life. But if you yell @ them it can depress them to no end. The BT is a sensitive, loving, overly eager to please yet stubborn type of dog.

Should I ever decide to breed my dogs (mind you after completing BOTH their champs in obed, conf, etc) these dogs will not go to just anyone. The puppies will be temperament tested and placed accordingly. My contract will be stiff, yet I will back my dogs 100%. They would all have their health testing done, and no dog with aggression issues would ever be used in my breeding program. Sound bodies and Sound minds.

I too believe in Karma. Best of luck in life.

I would have liked nothing better than for the cowardly breeder to have stood in front on the "Rage" puppy and let him have a go at her. There would have been no doubt in her mind that she created a monster. The nut doesn't fall far from the tree.

I agree with Tim said in that dogs are animals and as such they aren't "unpredictable" so much as they are "not always understood" by humans. Dogs do strange things that seem to make perfect sense to them but that people just don't get. Reportedly, dog attacks are always "unprovoked" and the victim never "did anything" to set the dog off but simply making prolonged EYE CONTACT with a dog is asking for trouble, especially if that dog has not been socialized with people (owner error) and misinterprets eye contact from a two-legged person as a challenge. A dog with RAGE syndrome, on the other hand, IS unpredictable.

Here is a VERY interesting article that appeared in a Vancouver paper recently on the breed ban controversy:

--------------------------

"Despite recent attacks, you can't judge a dog by
its breed"

It seems there's been a falling out between man
and his best friend. Newspapers and newscasts are
filled with stories of dog attacks, and now man
has decided to get even.

In response to several recent attacks by pit bull
terriers, many people, including Vancouver
Councillor Tim Stevenson, have called for a ban
on owning the breed.

Certainly, we sympathize with anyone who has been
caught in the powerful jaws of a pit bull. But
the call for a breed ban is wrongheaded, to say
the least.

To begin with, there's no way to prove the breed
of a dog, not even with DNA evidence. Breeds are
essentially social constructions, much like human
races.

Consequently, a dog owner could easily challenge
a ban, and there's little a municipality could do
to prove the dog is actually a pit bull. (In
fact, the term "pit bull" doesn't even signify a
breed, but rather applies to a number of breeds
including the Staffordshire bull terrier and the
American pit bull terrier.)

BEWARE OF POMERANIANS

Further, the impetus to ban pit bulls stems from
the erroneous belief that all and only pit bulls
are dangerous. Stevenson encapsulated that belief
perfectly when he said, "You never hear of a
cocker spaniel or a Labrador attacking someone."

Now we're not sure where Stevenson is getting his
information, but he's terribly mistaken. While
Canada, unfortunately, has no national database
of dog attacks, a study by the Canadian Hospitals
Injury Reporting and Prevention Program directly
contradicts the city councillor's assertion.

The study looked at 278 dog attacks that required
hospital admission, and found they were committed
by 50 different types of purebred dogs and 33
types of crossbreeds.

German shepherds were responsible for by far the
most attacks, and Rottweilers and Stevenson's
harmless cocker spaniels tied for second. Golden
retrievers came in fourth, and some studies in
the United States have found Labrador retrievers
responsible for more attacks than any other
breed.

While pit bulls get all the negative press,
Labradors, dachshunds and even a tiny Pomeranian
-- a toy dog that weighs about five pounds --
have actually killed children.

And while pit bulls were originally bred to
fight, one pit bull is a champion "herder" (which
is what collies were bred for) and other pit
bulls and Rottweilers have acted as therapy dogs.

The point, of course, is that you can't judge a
dog by its breed. By focusing on the breed rather
than the individual, breed bans result in
labelling many non-vicious dogs as dangerous,
while leaving many dangerous dogs free to roam
the streets.

Or alternatively, you ban every breed that's ever
attacked someone. Italy is doing just that and
now has 40 breeds on its banned list (out of
about 160 recognized breeds). Most recently,
Welsh corgis were banned, which means the Queen
won't be visiting Rome anytime soon.

For all of these reasons, many organizations,
including the Canadian Kennel Club, the American
Kennel Club, the Canadian Veterinary Medical
Association, the Canada Safety Council and the
U.S. Centers for Disease Control all oppose breed
bans.

While bans make little sense, dangerous dog
legislation is important, but must be based on
the individual dog. Dogs that have attacked
people or animals should be satisfactorily
rehabilitated or euthanized, and other dogs
deemed dangerous, such as guard dogs trained to
attack, should be confined.

Owners of dangerous dogs must be held responsible
for their dogs' behaviour, including the laying
of criminal charges when appropriate. All too
often, dogs that attack were either mistreated by
their owners or were purchased purely because the
owners believed that owning powerful and menacing
animals improved the owners' tough-guy images. If
there's to be a ban, it should prevent such
people from owning any dog.

Despite the importance of controlling dangerous
dogs, the CHIRPP study found that 71.6 per cent
of dog attacks involved dogs that had not
previously exhibited aggressive behaviour. In
fact, the victim of more than one-quarter of all
attacks was the dog's owner or the owner's
children.

As such, it's crucially important that the public
be educated about how to handle dogs. People need
to know that tethered dogs are much more likely
to attack (because, when threatened, a chained
dog can't run away). Dogs that aren't spayed or
neutered are also much more likely to attack, so
dog owners need to be encouraged to have their
pets fixed.

EDUCATE DOGS AND PEOPLE

Dog owners should also socialize their pets, and
all dogs should be licensed. Mandatory obedience
training is also a good idea, particularly for
breeds like Rottweilers and pit bulls, who,
thanks to their sheer strength and the enormous
power of their jaws, can inflict significant
damage if they attack.

The CHIRPP study also found that young children
are much more likely to be attacked, primarily
because they act in ways dogs perceive as
threatening. Consequently, the education of
children is particularly important, and parents
need to educate their children not to approach
strange dogs and to refrain from teasing any dog.

The best bet for reducing dog attacks is,
therefore, not the indiscriminate banning of an
allegedly troublesome breed, but the education of
both dog owners and those who come into contact
with dogs on how to handle animals responsibly.
In so doing, we can ensure that our best friends
remain just that."

If a person is breeding (gasp) Pit Bulls or their many variants,
----------------------------------------------

To all those uneducated people;

The Pit Bull or American Pit Bull Terrier is a totally different breed to the Bull Terrier. They are NOT a variant. Please get that through your very thick heads. I don't know how often you need to be told this. But I for one am getting very sick of it.

Obviously you have extreme difficulty in digesting this information. I breed and show Bull Terriers and I come up against this ignoramus feature all the time. Most people who realise their errors can't believe how stupid they've been to not be able to tell the difference when they do see the two dogs. Like comparing oranges to apples, both fruits though but thats as far as they go in comparisons.

So EDUCATE yourself and stop referring to all these different breeds. This story was about a poor puppy buyer who bought a dog from a non reputable breeder. The puppy had RAGE SYNDROME, totally unrelated to "aggression" from environmental etc. the breeder didn't support him THIS WAS THE PROBLEM.

Yet you uneducated guys just keep going on and on about those pit bulls - HELLO do you bother reading these letters from EXPERIENCED PEOPLE!!! who are trying to educate you.

Tell you what, go visit these pages and become informed. You will clearly see the differences for starters but there are many people who care about these dogs. Many own a car, most of us are responsible drivers but there will always be an idiot driver out there. That same principle for dog owners is the same. Don't blame the breed.

Bull Terriers;
http://www.thebullterrierclub.com/
http://www.thebullterrierclub.com/
http://www.bullterriers.co.uk/

American Pit Bull Terriers;
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.html
http://www.pbrc.net/home.html
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/sadreality.html
http://www.pitbull.org.au/index.htm

My last contribution to this thread was declared to be my LAST. Uhhhh....just ONE more comment on which I can't pass. Quote from post of "Can't be:
.
>HONEST Breeders Stand Behind Their Dogs 100% .
If a person is breeding (gasp) Pit Bulls or their many variants, standing BEHIND the dog would certainly make good sense. It's the other end that has the teeth.

You're beginning to get it!! I KNOW the babysitter's dog was the one at FAULT here. That has NOT been disputed by anyone except those dog owners in denial. I said all along that the dog was at fault. That is the whole argument in this thread. People are amazed when they own an aggressive breed and it attacks someone for no reason. As for setting herself up for the lawsuits, telling the police that the dog attacked without provocation did more to win my case if I had sued than anything else could have. If she had said she was out of the room, she would have "plausible deniability" working in her favor. As it was, I chose to be "neighborly" and not sue her. I chalked it up to "s**t happens" and decided that having a good neighbor was more important than a few scars that will heal over time. As for the geniuses who believe that anyone who doesn't own a dog can't have an informed opinion on this matter, get real. I also don't own a rattlesnake, crocodile, grizzly bear, or a nuclear bomb. And yet, I know that all of these are dangerous. I guess I shouldn't be able to make that judgement either.

I still disagree with you Robert. You don't really know what happened at your son's baby sitter's house, do you? You know what you were TOLD. Do you really think a baby sitter would admit that she had a dog around a small child that shouldn't be around a small child...or that perhaps she wasn't sitting right there when the dog attacked the child? Of course not.

That would be an engraved invitation for a law suit. I do agree that if you are not able to control your dog you shouldn't have one (I feel the same way about human children, too).

The dog should be trained and under control at all times. My large "aggressive" dogs live in a household with domestic rabbits. Not once have they even suggested they would harm a rabbit.

However, I never leave the dogs and rabbits alone in the same room for any reason. If an 80 pound dog steps on a 2 pound rabbit and NOT ON PURPOSE, how much damage would be done?

My first Doberman was for "protection". It was through him I discovered how intelligent and loyal the breed tends to be. Others may view my dogs as body guards, but I view them as companions and as a part of my family.

Instead of screaming and ranting and raving, maybe you should be wondering if the babysitter's dog was the one really at fault.

If my pet went NUTS and attacked you...
I might shoot it before you did!
and...it would be likely MY FAULT...
I took the risk owning him.

S.n. I already gave the facts of the case. These came from the police and doctor's reports. The babysitter said that my son did absolutely nothing to provoke the dog. I don't know how much more to explain that to you. You go on living in denial and I hope you and your kin don't get mauled by your "pet". I understand that the dog's environment contributes greatly to their attitudes. The facts remain, and you will of course deny this, the reason people get these breeds is for PROTECTION. Protection does not mean the dog going up to someone and handing them an arrest warrant. It means going up and ATTACKING the intruder. I can go on but I know it won't matter to you. You just keep living the dream that these make good pets. I'll be the one with the gun waiting for your "friendly clown" to go nuts so I can end the problem.

A breeder up in Sudbury left for work only to
come home to a wife that did not and could not leave the couch all day due to a Doberman that TURNED on her...It would NOT literally let her off the couch. She had to urinate ON THE COUCH!!! What happened? All Dobermans bad?????
NOPE= DOGS CAN BE UNPREDICTIBLE!!!!!!!

My bully I used to own was truly the neatest temperament dog...He was a pure clown and all he wanted to do was play... My wife owned daycare and the dog grew up with kids. They would ride him...pull his tail , pull his ears...etc and NEVER EVER WOULD THAT DOG EVEN THINK OF GROWLING...but...but...at the age of about 3...ROCKY started acting a little strange around his 5 gallon water jug! He would stand over it
in a stance and if I let him..he would not move for hours!!! And..if you went near him he would snarl like a wolf!!! I had to literally get him in a very tight HEAD LOCK with him growling like he was ready to rip me apart and PULL HIM AWAY from his water bowl !!!! The SECOND..repeat..the second HE WAS AWAY FROM THE BOWL he became the happy PUPPY TYPE clown that he was as IF it NEVER HAPPENED...LIKE A doctor jeckyl mr hyde!

DOGS ARE ANIMALS!!!! THEY ARE UNPREDICTIBLE....
TO LEAVE THEM AROUND CHILDREN UNATTENDED IS PURE
STUPIDITY AND POOR JUDGEMENT ON THE PART OF THE OWNER!!!

A man camped around a campfire with his German Shepard up in Capreol Ontario. A pick up truck pulled up and a man got out and walked over to the fire and said, "hi there..is that sheppard a male or female?" as he was asking the question.....his PIT BULL jumped through the window of the pick up and started to RIP THE SHEPPARD APART!!! The sheppard needed countless stiches and barely survived the attack which was in the newspaper the next day....
WHAT HAPPENED??? ALL DOGS ARE UNPREDICTIBLE AND SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED 100% NO MATTER WHAT!!!

I, as a child, was terroristed by a GD chewowwa
that used to attack me on my bike when I drove by his house... Till I finally kicked it in the head....never bugged me again...WHAT HAPPENED?
HOWWWW COULD THIS LITTLE DOG BE SO NASTY???

ALL DOGS ARE UNPREDICTIBLE AND SHOULD NOT BE TRUSTED 100% no MATTER WHAT!!

Thank You, Tim

Good dog owners will agree with you. There are bad breeders and there are bad owners and that is what ruins the reputation of many breeds, especially large breeds. People like Robert who don't really know what happened with his son because he wasn't there, will tell his tale, minus the first hand facts, to any one who will listen. A large breed dog, or any other dog, should never be around a small child unless it is under control. And I don't just mean the dog should be under control. So should the child. Constant stories of Killer Dogs initiate breed bans. My neighbors don't mind that I have Dobermans, but, then again, they only see my Dobermans when I am with them. My dogs are not allowed to run wild through the streets (or the neighbors yard) not because I worry they will attack something or someone, but because I worry about them and don't want anything bad to happen to them such as being run over by a car or shot by some nut with a gun because he thinks all Dobermans are "KILLERS".

By telling my story I did not intend for anyone to get into a debate on breed-specific aggression. My anger and frustration was directed toward my breeder who is not RESPONSIBLE in her breeding and who provided me with NO SUPPORT whatsoever. I do agree that some dogs may have more of a propensity for aggression - either because of their breed or because of IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDING (eg: knowingly breeding two Chihuahuas with unstable and undesirable temperaments.)

It goes without saying that a dog owner and how he treats his dog will have a big impact on how the dog turns out. However, I have personally seen owners being very rough toward their dogs (rotties, shepherds, etc.) and yet these dogs don't attack THEM! And what about the poor sucker like myself who does everything "right" and still ends up with a PUPPY who at barely 5 months old is going for MY throat only SECONDS after he was happily playing with me? There is VERY LITTLE you can do to a puppy to make him THAT aggressive at SUCH a YOUNG age and I certainly never gave him any reason to turn on me.

Let's not lose perspective on THIS particular story. My dog had RAGE SYNDROME - nothing I did CAUSED this to happen and it's just unfortunate that it did happen. I am not saying that the breeder KNOWINGLY bred RAGE into the litter BUT FIRSTLY there is a HUGE responsibility for the breeder to ensure - scientifically to the best of their abilities - that ONLY dogs in the BEST of health and with the MOST STABLE temperaments are bred. SECONDLY an HONEST, EXPERIENCED and REPUTABLE breeder will always STAND BEHIND their dogs and provide GENUINE, POST-SALES SUPPORT to their customers - no questions asked! I got NO HELP from my breeder and THAT is what my story is all about.

I don't care to BLAME any ONE person or factor for what happened to my dog but the way in which my breeder handled the situation (extremely POORLY and UNPROFESSIONALLY) made all the difference in the world with how I ended up feeling and still feel to this day. If she had just shown SOME sympathy or OFFERED to help in any way instead of being so DEFENSIVE every time I voluntarily contacted her I could have had some closure. Remember the old adage...A satisfied customer tells 1 or 2 people but a dissatisfied customer tells 10? The sale is not over as soon as the money has changed hands, pure and simple.

I don't believe in BUYING dogs anymore, especially since there are so many homeless ones out there waiting to be adopted, BUT a good breeder really is worth their weight in gold and it pays to pick the right one. I clearly remember having SERIOUS doubts about the QUALITY of support that my breeder would provide but I reasoned, "What problems could I possibly have?" Unfortunately, I found out soon enough. I should have trusted my gut.

The bottom line is this - If you are lucky enough to get a healthy, happy puppy from one of the MANY MANY MANY litters that are bred at Rather Bull Terriers then GREAT! BUT in the unfortunate circumstance that you have a more serious problem, you will be ON YOUR OWN. You will NOT get your money's worth by buying from Heather Collins and I know other gyped customers who will agree wholeheartedly.

I have read through the nasty fighting going back and forth....WHOOOO are the PITBULLS??
Looks like humans can be just as aggressive!

Anyways....here is the BOTTOM LINE PEOPLE

Personally I LOVE ENGLISH BULL TERRIERS and although I dont want to OWN a PIT BULL ...I hold no hate or fear of the animal.....

Having said that...DONT ANYONE TELL ME that an
ENGLISH BULL TERRIER CANNOT BE MAAAAAJOR AGGRESSIVE and that they are ONLY CLOWNS....
They are CLOWNS WITH MUSCLE and ANY DOG...REPEAT
ANY DOG CAN TURN..... Fact is they are animals
and with jaws like the BULLY HAS and the PIT BULL has it makes them MORE RISKY THEN MOST DOGS ***in general*** to keep period!!!!!!
Driving a car with 268 horsepower is RISKY TOO!
Cops train German Sheppards the 3rd most dangerous breed or so...should they stop????

BOILS DOWN TO THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BAD BREED!!!!!!! THERE ARE BAD OWNERS AND DUMB AND UNEDUCATED OWNERS THAT DO NOT KNOW HOWWWW TO KEEP THEIR DOG OUT OF TROUBLE...AND DONT CARE TO TRY AS THEY ARE BLIND TO IT'S ABILITIES.

THERE ARE CASES OF THE BULLIES (my favorite breed) HANGING ON TO A BULL THAT THE FARMER SICKED IT ON AND THE FARMER CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT KILLING THE BULL AND HAD TO CUT THE DOG IN HALF WITH AN AXE AND IT STILL WOULD NOT LET GO....

So..although I do not think people are dumb for buying pit bulls and bullies I think there are TOO MANY DUMB PEOPLE buying those dogs....

YOU SHOULD HAVE TO PASS AN EYYYYYE Q TEST TO OWN A DOG PERIOD!!!!!! and there should be a TEST
THAT THE OWNER HAS TO PASS TO OWN SUCH A DOG AS A PITBULL OR BULLY...or doberman or ROTTY....
they are all bloody dangerous in the hands of IDIOTS!!!!! UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE BREED AND THE
RESPONSIBLE OWNERS....


But..again..make no mistake...Bullies are as dangerous as any Pitbull... Back in 1842 when they bred the bully....they thought it had lost its fighting ability ....so they put it in the pen with a pitbull...the bully KILLED THE PIT BULL and escaped the fight in such good shape it won a DOG SHOW NOT LONG AFTERWARDS.

I LOVE BULLIES!!!! but... ANY DOG in the hands of the wrong owner is a risk! LIKE A BAD TIRE
ON A FAST CAR!

Apparently, there are some very angry people that have responded to this. I believe that are medications for that as well as social skills training. "You people" is just plain tacky. Any dog can be dangerous with the right environment and poor breeding. I am not going to listen to the opinion of someone that does not own dogs and gets their information from their local newstation. SN and Disgusted seem to be the most informed here.

I do not own a dog. The BABYSITTER'S dog attacked my boy. Why would I be in the room with my son when he was at the babysitter's house. If I was hom, I would have no need for the babysitter. My God you must be dense. So in answer of your one question, YOU are the idiot just like I had previously mentioned. Just like Adolph, since you people have no idea what FACTS are or just don't care, see ya. I expect to read in the paper about your friendly clowns attacking someone and then you giving a tearful plea about how "I never thought Woofie would do such a thing". You just cannot help someone who resists it.

This will be my final communiqu in response to this now tiresome, repetitive, dogmatic (pun intended)link. The situation existing with the supporters of the cuddly Pit Bull (and like breeds) is very illustrative of the old clich: "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've got my mind made up".
.
Facts? What are actual facts and actual statisitics worth? The aforementioned supporters have a plethora of their exclusively meaningless anecdotal and opinionated pseudo 'facts'. They're in their own little dream world. To these people, their load of bull$hit totally negates acknowledging what is going on in the real world and the value and REAL legitimacy of TRUE facts and statistics.
.
Bow wow and ta ta! For me, the end.

Robert, since you are so adamant about your position, here are a few questions for you. You state that your son and your friend's granddaughter were "attacked". However, in reading your post, I noted that the Police Report said and the babysitter said. I assume you were not present at the time of the attack. Here are the questions:

How old was your dog?
How old was the dog when you obtained it?
Where did you purchase the dog?
Was the dog trained?
If so, was the babysitter and your son involved in the training?
Did you investigate the background of the dog you purchased or the breed itself?
Was Pack Order established in your house and was your son aware of it?
Did you at any time prior to said attack notice anything your son did during any time that appeared to make the dog nervous or make him/her sit up and take notice?
Was the dog spayed/neutered?
Did the dog like the babysitter?

If there was NO training, if the dog was NOT trained to mind your babysitter, if the pack order in your house had not been established...WHAT WAS THE DOG DOING IN THE SAME ROOM WITH YOUR SON WITHOUT YOU THERE? Now who is the idiot?

You did not elaborate on the circumstances of your friend's granddaughter's "dog attack" so I unable to comment.

And, yes, I agree with the post regarding RESPONSIBLE breeding. And with the information regarding small dog bites not being reported. The small dog that bit me bit at least two other people in two month's time. None of use ran to the police and reported it because there was no damage. We just refused to be around the dog again if it was not being controlled. Breeding bad tempered dogs should be illegal, but with irresponsible breeders and back yard breeders, it happens. I always encourage everyone to study a breed before becoming interested. Telling me that "you always wanted a Doberman" isn't a good enough reason to jump and buy one. That's the main reason rescue groups were formed. To keep these creatures from being killed in shelters. Responsbile rescue organizations do not adopt out dogs that have bitten. I realize that it has to be this way but knowing that some of them are merely biting out of fear makes it difficult for me to deal with.

My adopted male dog does not do well with other dogs. He is neutered, but came from a very abusive situation. When I have foster dogs in the house, he cannot be left in the same area with the foster dogs. Period. If I am responsbile enough to ensure the safety of the canine members of my household, is there a reason why people can't be responsible with the human members of their household?

I don't have all my files in front of me, but I think I have had over 10 Dobermans in my home during the time I have worked in rescue. Not one dog bite. Not even the threat of a dog bite. Not one other animal attacked. Gee, I guess I should maybe remind these guys (and girls) that they ARE killers...

This will be my final communiqu in response to this now tiresome, repetitive, dogmatic (pun intended)link. The situation existing with the supporters of the cuddly Pit Bull (and like breeds) is very illustrative of the old clich: "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've got my mind made up".
.
Facts? What are actual facts and actual statisitics worth? The aforementioned supporters have a plethora of their exclusively meaningless anecdotal and opinionated pseudo 'facts'. They're in their own little dream world. To these people, their load of bull$hit totally negates acknowledging what is going on in the real world and the value and REAL legitimacy of TRUE facts and statistics.
.
Bow wow and ta ta! For me, the end.

This will be my final communiqu in response to this now tiresome, repetitive, dogmatic (pun intended)link. The situation existing with the supporters of the cuddly Pit Bull (and like breeds) is very illustrative of the old clich: "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've got my mind made up".
.
Facts? What are actual facts and actual statisitics worth? The aforementioned supporters have a plethora of their exclusively meaningless anecdotal and opinionated pseudo 'facts'. They're in their own little dream world. To these people, their load of bull$hit totally negates acknowledging what is going on in the real world and the value and REAL legitimacy of TRUE facts and statistics.
.
Bow wow and ta ta! For me, the end.

This will be my final communiqu in response to this now tiresome, repetitive, dogmatic (pun intended)link. The situation existing with the supporters of the cuddly Pit Bull (and like breeds) is very illustrative of the old clich: "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've got my mind made up".
.
Facts? What are actual facts and actual statisitics worth? The aforementioned supporters have a plethora of their exclusively meaningless anecdotal and opinionated pseudo 'facts'. They're in their own little dream world. To these people, their load of bull$hit totally negates acknowledging what is going on in the real world and the value and REAL legitimacy of TRUE facts and statistics.
.
Bow wow and ta ta! For me, the end.

After reading all these comments from those who have wrongly referred to the Bull Terrier as the American Pit Bull Terrier. I suggest you get yourself a book and compare the two - they don't even remotely look alike.

I have been a registered breeder of Bull Terriers for nearly 15 years. I am personally sick of people who don't live and breath my breed but yet are quite happy to give an authorative negative opinion of them. Please don't go telling me that my dogs are man biters etc cause I LIVE WITH 12 of them. Including 1 American Pit Bull Terrier and 1 American Staffordshire Terrier. Not the mention 2 CATS!!! Oh should I continue and mention the chooks and ducks?

Your lack of knowledge is quite evident Robert and Adolph - do yourself a favour and get hands on experience with the breeds you are badmouthing.

RAGE is a problem thank god we do not see often in the Bull Terrier. Responsible owners euthanise any affected dogs and will assess that breeding combination. This is a problem where the wiring in the brain isn't right. It doesn't actually make the dog a naturally aggressive dog as such. It is like trying to tell a person with Schizophrenia that he is normally like that - when we know its the wiring in the brain. DOGS like this are a danger and there is no cure. With humans to control their pyschosis etc they are given drugs to deal with their mental problem.

This particular breeder obviously isn't a responsible one cause in Australia we do not let puppies go till they are 8 weeks of age, she is obviously there for the money. If she is a registered breeder the disgruntled previous buyers should all lodge a complaint with the Canadian CC against her.

She has failed in her duty of care firstly to the breed itself. If her breeding stock have temperament problems then she shouldn't be breeding from them period.

Now in regard to dog attacks as a committee member of the EDBA (Endangered Dog Breed Association) and on a personal level I have done my own research on dog attacks here in Australia. I have over 10 years of media clippings of dog attacks etc.

1. The dog breed is identified mostly by the person who was bitten, therefore you hope they even know what breed it actually was, not what it sort of looked like.
2. When the media has used photos of the offending dogs and they were referred to as a particular breed, the actual dog was more a cross bred rather than a purebred.
3. One actual attack was referred to as a Bull Terrier. A licensed Bull Terrier dog judge went to view the animal and commented that the dog firstly wasn't even a bull terrier and he couldn't even see any bully in him.

If you know much about the media, SENSATIONALISM sells, poodle or Jack Russell bites DONT.

Now lets go to statistics hey, we do have a lovely lady on the EDBA who works with statistics. They are only as good as the whole truth being revealed.

eg If a child was bitten by a small dog that dog bite is likely to go unreported only because the parents will treat it at home. BUT if a bigger breed cut skin that required stitches then that breed will be listed for that dog attack. See how statistics are really not based on the whole truth but half a truth.

Now don't say to me that a little dog does less damage - I personally don't care, a dog bite is a dog bite period. Lets start recording all bites and lets see who the happy snappers really are.

How hard do ypu people think it is to get the FACTS? Here they are according to the Center for Disease Control, US Government. The Canadian Government has basically the same comparison numbers. As do Great Britain. Amazing how all these governments have the same information as everyone else, yet you few want to deny them as fact. Top 10 most dangerous breeds due to the FACT that they have attacked and KILLED people. I will use the latest info(through 1996) as compiled. Get ready all of you in denial and the ones like S.N. from Kansas who just make stuff up.
#1 Pit Bull -50
#2 Rottweiler -29
#3 German Shepherd -19
#4 Husky -14
#5 Alaskan Malamute -12
#6 Doberman Pinscher -8
#7 Chow Chow -8
#8 Great Dane -5
#9 Saint Bernard -4
#10 Akita -4
The numbers get real ugly when you add in the cross-breeding of these animals with each other. Sort of like letting prisoners work out with weights. You get antisocial with a healthy dose of size and strength. As for what happened to my son and the other guy's granddaughter, what do you THINK happened? The dogs looked at them real mean and hurt their self esteem? THEY WERE ATTACKED YOU IDIOT! The police report for my son stated he did nothing to provoke the dog. The babysitter said he was sitting alone playing with his toys across the living room when the dog got up and attacked him. The Husky was that fast. She was able to get the Husky to release his face(punctured in 3 spots) and give first aid. The good news is he is not afraid of dogs and in fact loves them, big or small. The bad news is he will always have the scars, though they diminished alot over the past 5 years. The truth hurts, but like children who are told NO, you'll get over it.

I have only been around one pitbull and that was when my daughter was small. This dog was raised as a member of the family. He played well with my daughter (and no I never left them alone at any time), he was well behaved and barked when someone pulled into their driveway. That was his job. I never saw him aggressive at any time. When is everyone going to understand that mean dogs are generally created by man? Whether it is bad breeding as in the original poster's complaint, or whether the dog is trained to be mean by it's owner, the dog is not the one at fault here. And your comparison to mass murderers is laughable. If I am being stalked by a mean aggressive dog I am within my legal rights to kill it. No questions asked. BUT, if it was a mass murderer, it would be against the law for me to level my gun and fire...and guess who kills more humans in the U.S. than ANY breed of dog or ALL breeds put together -- Other Humans, Of Course!

Adolph, for your information I did research Pit Bull's once I realized there was one living next door to me so I could be informed. My dog's will be attacked by a Pit Bull before I will. If they do get attacked it will be from them provoking another dog. That is why I keep them on leashes around strange dogs. There is no way to measure the strength of a dog's jaws and they have the same set of teeth my dogs have.

The American Temperament Test Society continually ranks Pits better in temperamnet than many other breeds such as the Airedale Terrier, Basenji, Beagle, Bichon Frise, Border Collie, Chihuahua, Collie, Dachshund(4 of 6 varieties), English Setter, Lhasa Opso, Pomeranian, Shar-Pei, Shiba Inu, Shih Tzu, Schnauzer, and Toy Poodle all score below average and many more far below than that of the Pit Bull. Even though their temperament score is less than average many would not even think twice in their ownership as a family pet.

So what happened?
The American Pit Bull Terrier and its AKC cousins had a well- deserved reputation as a loyal and trustworthy family pet in the early years of this century, but of late has been severely castigated as a vicious, man-killing beast, worthy of banishment from the cities, considered guilty with no chance of proving innocence in any case.

"Pit bull" is a generic and derogatory term that encompasses any of several breeds of dogs or crosses on those breeds. Pit Bull fanciers can be divided into several camps: conscientious breeders of the AKC-registered duo who often deny kinship of their dogs with the APBT; ethical breeders of the APBT who face squarely the slander heaped upon them by ignorant neighbors; and unethical breeders of all three breeds who still indulge in dog fighting or promote aggressive temperaments for illegal purposes. Dog fighting rings still exist--it's only been a few years since a ring with national ties was busted in New Richmond and Blanchester, Ohio--and inner city drug dealers often use the dogs to guard their drug supplies and cash.

To further complicate matters, those who still breed for fighting are not as careful to preserve the dog's strong instinct to bond with humans as the early breeders did. So, today "pit bull" is a pejorative term that strikes fear in the hearts of many and leads to the spreading of urban legends about dogs with locking jaws that exert 20 thousand pounds of pressure, unstable breed temperament, and overwhelming human aggression.

In fact, the well-bred American Pit Bull Terrier is a family guardian and protector; an intelligent and obedient pet; a sweet, even-tempered dog that serves well as a help-mate to handicapped owner and friend to small children; and a healthy, hardy dog that complains little and offers much to his family.

Unfortunately, it has been more important for legislators in many jurisdictions to prove to constituents that they have "done something" about community problems. Spurred on by media accounts of "pit bull" attacks described in lurid detail, these councils and commissioners have banned pit bulls in all their forms from their communities. Never mind that the owners are the ones at fault for harboring a vicious dog; never mind that few of these dogs actually bite people; never mind that the breed and its crosses are not always easy to identify. Just ban them.

So, many shelters do not offer pit bulls or any dog that might be part pit bull to be adopted. Insurance companies cancel house insurance if a pit bull is in residence. Neighbors mistake everything from Boxers to Pugs as "pit bulls". And those criminals who used pit bulls as protectors of their illegal activities switch to Akitas or Rottweilers.

Adolph, for your information I did research Pit Bull's once I realized there was one living next door to me so I could be informed. My dog's will be attacked by a Pit Bull before I will. If they do get attacked it will be from them provoking another dog. That is why I keep them on leashes around strange dogs. There is no way to measure the strength of a dog's jaws and they have the same set of teeth my dogs have.

The American Temperament Test Society continually ranks Pits better in temperamnet than many other breeds such as the Airedale Terrier, Basenji, Beagle, Bichon Frise, Border Collie, Chihuahua, Collie, Dachshund(4 of 6 varieties), English Setter, Lhasa Opso, Pomeranian, Shar-Pei, Shiba Inu, Shih Tzu, Schnauzer, and Toy Poodle all score below average and many more far below than that of the Pit Bull. Even though their temperament score is less than average many would not even think twice in their ownership as a family pet.

So what happened?
The American Pit Bull Terrier and its AKC cousins had a well- deserved reputation as a loyal and trustworthy family pet in the early years of this century, but of late has been severely castigated as a vicious, man-killing beast, worthy of banishment from the cities, considered guilty with no chance of proving innocence in any case.

"Pit bull" is a generic and derogatory term that encompasses any of several breeds of dogs or crosses on those breeds. Pit Bull fanciers can be divided into several camps: conscientious breeders of the AKC-registered duo who often deny kinship of their dogs with the APBT; ethical breeders of the APBT who face squarely the slander heaped upon them by ignorant neighbors; and unethical breeders of all three breeds who still indulge in dog fighting or promote aggressive temperaments for illegal purposes. Dog fighting rings still exist--it's only been a few years since a ring with national ties was busted in New Richmond and Blanchester, Ohio--and inner city drug dealers often use the dogs to guard their drug supplies and cash.

To further complicate matters, those who still breed for fighting are not as careful to preserve the dog's strong instinct to bond with humans as the early breeders did. So, today "pit bull" is a pejorative term that strikes fear in the hearts of many and leads to the spreading of urban legends about dogs with locking jaws that exert 20 thousand pounds of pressure, unstable breed temperament, and overwhelming human aggression.

In fact, the well-bred American Pit Bull Terrier is a family guardian and protector; an intelligent and obedient pet; a sweet, even-tempered dog that serves well as a help-mate to handicapped owner and friend to small children; and a healthy, hardy dog that complains little and offers much to his family.

Unfortunately, it has been more important for legislators in many jurisdictions to prove to constituents that they have "done something" about community problems. Spurred on by media accounts of "pit bull" attacks described in lurid detail, these councils and commissioners have banned pit bulls in all their forms from their communities. Never mind that the owners are the ones at fault for harboring a vicious dog; never mind that few of these dogs actually bite people; never mind that the breed and its crosses are not always easy to identify. Just ban them.

So, many shelters do not offer pit bulls or any dog that might be part pit bull to be adopted. Insurance companies cancel house insurance if a pit bull is in residence. Neighbors mistake everything from Boxers to Pugs as "pit bulls". And those criminals who used pit bulls as protectors of their illegal activities switch to Akitas or Rottweilers.

Adolph, for your information I did research Pit Bull's once I realized there was one living next door to me so I could be informed. My dog's will be attacked by a Pit Bull before I will. If they do get attacked it will be from them provoking another dog. That is why I keep them on leashes around strange dogs. There is no way to measure the strength of a dog's jaws and they have the same set of teeth my dogs have.

The American Temperament Test Society continually ranks Pits better in temperamnet than many other breeds such as the Airedale Terrier, Basenji, Beagle, Bichon Frise, Border Collie, Chihuahua, Collie, Dachshund(4 of 6 varieties), English Setter, Lhasa Opso, Pomeranian, Shar-Pei, Shiba Inu, Shih Tzu, Schnauzer, and Toy Poodle all score below average and many more far below than that of the Pit Bull. Even though their temperament score is less than average many would not even think twice in their ownership as a family pet.

So what happened?
The American Pit Bull Terrier and its AKC cousins had a well- deserved reputation as a loyal and trustworthy family pet in the early years of this century, but of late has been severely castigated as a vicious, man-killing beast, worthy of banishment from the cities, considered guilty with no chance of proving innocence in any case.

"Pit bull" is a generic and derogatory term that encompasses any of several breeds of dogs or crosses on those breeds. Pit Bull fanciers can be divided into several camps: conscientious breeders of the AKC-registered duo who often deny kinship of their dogs with the APBT; ethical breeders of the APBT who face squarely the slander heaped upon them by ignorant neighbors; and unethical breeders of all three breeds who still indulge in dog fighting or promote aggressive temperaments for illegal purposes. Dog fighting rings still exist--it's only been a few years since a ring with national ties was busted in New Richmond and Blanchester, Ohio--and inner city drug dealers often use the dogs to guard their drug supplies and cash.

To further complicate matters, those who still breed for fighting are not as careful to preserve the dog's strong instinct to bond with humans as the early breeders did. So, today "pit bull" is a pejorative term that strikes fear in the hearts of many and leads to the spreading of urban legends about dogs with locking jaws that exert 20 thousand pounds of pressure, unstable breed temperament, and overwhelming human aggression.

In fact, the well-bred American Pit Bull Terrier is a family guardian and protector; an intelligent and obedient pet; a sweet, even-tempered dog that serves well as a help-mate to handicapped owner and friend to small children; and a healthy, hardy dog that complains little and offers much to his family.

Unfortunately, it has been more important for legislators in many jurisdictions to prove to constituents that they have "done something" about community problems. Spurred on by media accounts of "pit bull" attacks described in lurid detail, these councils and commissioners have banned pit bulls in all their forms from their communities. Never mind that the owners are the ones at fault for harboring a vicious dog; never mind that few of these dogs actually bite people; never mind that the breed and its crosses are not always easy to identify. Just ban them.

So, many shelters do not offer pit bulls or any dog that might be part pit bull to be adopted. Insurance companies cancel house insurance if a pit bull is in residence. Neighbors mistake everything from Boxers to Pugs as "pit bulls". And those criminals who used pit bulls as protectors of their illegal activities switch to Akitas or Rottweilers.

Adolph, for your information I did research Pit Bull's once I realized there was one living next door to me so I could be informed. My dog's will be attacked by a Pit Bull before I will. If they do get attacked it will be from them provoking another dog. That is why I keep them on leashes around strange dogs. There is no way to measure the strength of a dog's jaws and they have the same set of teeth my dogs have.

The American Temperament Test Society continually ranks Pits better in temperamnet than many other breeds such as the Airedale Terrier, Basenji, Beagle, Bichon Frise, Border Collie, Chihuahua, Collie, Dachshund(4 of 6 varieties), English Setter, Lhasa Opso, Pomeranian, Shar-Pei, Shiba Inu, Shih Tzu, Schnauzer, and Toy Poodle all score below average and many more far below than that of the Pit Bull. Even though their temperament score is less than average many would not even think twice in their ownership as a family pet.

So what happened?
The American Pit Bull Terrier and its AKC cousins had a well- deserved reputation as a loyal and trustworthy family pet in the early years of this century, but of late has been severely castigated as a vicious, man-killing beast, worthy of banishment from the cities, considered guilty with no chance of proving innocence in any case.

"Pit bull" is a generic and derogatory term that encompasses any of several breeds of dogs or crosses on those breeds. Pit Bull fanciers can be divided into several camps: conscientious breeders of the AKC-registered duo who often deny kinship of their dogs with the APBT; ethical breeders of the APBT who face squarely the slander heaped upon them by ignorant neighbors; and unethical breeders of all three breeds who still indulge in dog fighting or promote aggressive temperaments for illegal purposes. Dog fighting rings still exist--it's only been a few years since a ring with national ties was busted in New Richmond and Blanchester, Ohio--and inner city drug dealers often use the dogs to guard their drug supplies and cash.

To further complicate matters, those who still breed for fighting are not as careful to preserve the dog's strong instinct to bond with humans as the early breeders did. So, today "pit bull" is a pejorative term that strikes fear in the hearts of many and leads to the spreading of urban legends about dogs with locking jaws that exert 20 thousand pounds of pressure, unstable breed temperament, and overwhelming human aggression.

In fact, the well-bred American Pit Bull Terrier is a family guardian and protector; an intelligent and obedient pet; a sweet, even-tempered dog that serves well as a help-mate to handicapped owner and friend to small children; and a healthy, hardy dog that complains little and offers much to his family.

Unfortunately, it has been more important for legislators in many jurisdictions to prove to constituents that they have "done something" about community problems. Spurred on by media accounts of "pit bull" attacks described in lurid detail, these councils and commissioners have banned pit bulls in all their forms from their communities. Never mind that the owners are the ones at fault for harboring a vicious dog; never mind that few of these dogs actually bite people; never mind that the breed and its crosses are not always easy to identify. Just ban them.

So, many shelters do not offer pit bulls or any dog that might be part pit bull to be adopted. Insurance companies cancel house insurance if a pit bull is in residence. Neighbors mistake everything from Boxers to Pugs as "pit bulls". And those criminals who used pit bulls as protectors of their illegal activities switch to Akitas or Rottweilers.

Reading? Making "assumptions"? Here's some READING for you, Erica. All the meaningless anecdotal blather from owners proclaiming the desirability of pit bulls isn't supported by any real facts. I would suggest it is YOU, Erica, who could more favorably expand your knowledge base by "reading". I made / make no assumptions!

Narrative from Dr. Alan Beck of the Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine and The SanFranciisco Chronicle 7-16-2004: (Beck, a biologist, has studied dogs, breeds, and even worked in shelters during his schooling at Johns Hopkins University).


"For starters, although pit bulls are being bred (and over bred) wildly, most experts, including Beck and his former student, Randall Lockwood, of the Humane Society of the United States, estimate that pit bulls and pit mixes are no more than 6 percent of the overall dog population."

"It was clear,'' Beck says, "that pit bulls were a very small part of the dog population. And second, that small part was accounting for 40-50 percent of the fatal attacks."

"That's the real point. Your pit bull "Cuddles'' is a wonderful dog. But as Judge Francis X. Gorman who in a ruling in Toledo recently, "Arguably, some families own docile pit bulls who have never threatened anybody; possibly their violent instincts have been effectively diluted over succeeding generations. The undeniable fact remains, however, that a disproportionate number of pit bulls have been involved in very serious attacks."
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Did you get that, Erica? 6% of dogs responsible for 40-50% of fatal attacks. And they ain't talking chihuahuas, sweetie!

I keep seeing the same load being written about PitBulls. "They are just like sweet clowns" and other such bilge. Bozo was a clown. So was John Wayne Gacy. Which one had all the dead bodies?

"That dog would've been a drug dealer's dream come true" -- This is entirely NOT true. That dog was primarily aggressive against his OWN handlers, not just strangers. No drug dealer or ANYONE for that matter would want to be confronted by his OWN dog! RAGE in dogs is pretty frightening to witness.

Erica, I have worked with and had dogs all of my life. The ONLY time I have ever suffered from a dog bite was from a Chihuahua. I didn't have to get stitches but I had two nasty looking bruises on the back of my leg. The dog bit me once and then bit me again.

Robert, you don't hear about the smaller dogs doing a lot of damage to people because they are small. If a large dog had been the one to biet me, I would have been in the emergency room. You need to do an internet search on the top ten dog bites. Dobermans aren't in the top ten. You didn't explain how your child was injured or how your friend's granddaughter was injured.

I see several instances every year where children were not taught how to behave around dogs. I take my dogs to pet stores and can't believe how many people allow their small children to come running and screaming up to my dogs, right in their face. I have to step between my dog and said child and request that the parent(s) restrain their child. My dogs are not mean, but they don't care for screaming kids in their faces and while you or I put our hand out to stop a kid from being our face, guess what recourse the dog has?

I do believe that some dogs can be born with mental problems just as humans can. If you have a breed with natural aggression you can't do things to make it more aggressive or it can become mean. Ignorance is the reason breeds are banned and insurance companies refuse to insure them. Bad breeders cause problems that can sometimes not be fixed by love and proper training.

I stand by my statement. There are no Bad Dogs, Just Bad Owners.

Pit Bulls ARE dog aggressive and NOT people aggressive unless their human owners make them that way. My next door neighbor has a male Pit Bull and he is the sweetest clown of a dog I have ever met. He does not even bark. My 2 Chihuahua's are the aggressive take no prisoners type. Yes, they are restrained at the vet because they bite when they are scared. I would have no problems owning a Pit and it is a shame that they have the reputation that they do.

NOWHERE in her missive did she EVER say the dog was an ENGLISH Bull Terrier. As for you people trying to claim that Pitbulls are "friendly", I am speechless by the stupidity of that entire statement.

I worked with a guy who owned Rottweilers. He also claimed they were good pets and child proof. Yep, you can guess what happened to his 2 year old granddaughter. She recovered and the dogs were gotten rid of. Just like the babysitter's Huskie. It was "friendly" too and "great with children".

It cost me several hundred $$ to patch up my boy after recieving a dose of the dogs' "great pet" attitude. That dog was no problem after I was through with it. It got ALL the training a VICIOUS animal requires to make it docile.

When I was through correcting it's personality traits, anytime it saw me, it cowered. They also got rid of it to stave off the lawsuit. I notice that nobody ever gets sued because their Scotty or Jack Russell went crazy. I like the one by Kathy who proposes to teach me about how great Pitbulls are and then explains how she restrains them in order to treat them.

Not because they are "great pets" but, of course, because she knows they will shred her if given the chance. Way to go Kathy, I like debating with people who make my point. I know retrievers bite. They like to chew. A little bit of training takes care of that. Problem with that argument is that I have NEVER in 42 years seen or heard a report on the news of a Lab going crazy and killing anyone. They nip and sometrime break the skin, but they don't try to eat anyone.

My point is still valid. People buy dogs that are known to be aggressive because they want that type of dog...big and aggressive. And when they attack the hand that feeds them, they act like they have no idea what went wrong. If you keep a rattlesnake for a pet, don't be shocked when YOU are the one looking for the anti-venom. Adolph is dead on target.

Most homeowners associations prohibit ownership of these breeds. Alot of cities also prohibit them. I guess these people are just "uninformed" of the animals "great pet" status.

NOWHERE in her missive did she EVER say the dog was an ENGLISH Bull Terrier. As for you people trying to claim that Pitbulls are "friendly", I am speechless by the stupidity of that entire statement.

I worked with a guy who owned Rottweilers. He also claimed they were good pets and child proof. Yep, you can guess what happened to his 2 year old granddaughter. She recovered and the dogs were gotten rid of. Just like the babysitter's Huskie. It was "friendly" too and "great with children".

It cost me several hundred $$ to patch up my boy after recieving a dose of the dogs' "great pet" attitude. That dog was no problem after I was through with it. It got ALL the training a VICIOUS animal requires to make it docile.

When I was through correcting it's personality traits, anytime it saw me, it cowered. They also got rid of it to stave off the lawsuit. I notice that nobody ever gets sued because their Scotty or Jack Russell went crazy. I like the one by Kathy who proposes to teach me about how great Pitbulls are and then explains how she restrains them in order to treat them.

Not because they are "great pets" but, of course, because she knows they will shred her if given the chance. Way to go Kathy, I like debating with people who make my point. I know retrievers bite. They like to chew. A little bit of training takes care of that. Problem with that argument is that I have NEVER in 42 years seen or heard a report on the news of a Lab going crazy and killing anyone. They nip and sometrime break the skin, but they don't try to eat anyone.

My point is still valid. People buy dogs that are known to be aggressive because they want that type of dog...big and aggressive. And when they attack the hand that feeds them, they act like they have no idea what went wrong. If you keep a rattlesnake for a pet, don't be shocked when YOU are the one looking for the anti-venom. Adolph is dead on target.

Most homeowners associations prohibit ownership of these breeds. Alot of cities also prohibit them. I guess these people are just "uninformed" of the animals "great pet" status.

NOWHERE in her missive did she EVER say the dog was an ENGLISH Bull Terrier. As for you people trying to claim that Pitbulls are "friendly", I am speechless by the stupidity of that entire statement.

I worked with a guy who owned Rottweilers. He also claimed they were good pets and child proof. Yep, you can guess what happened to his 2 year old granddaughter. She recovered and the dogs were gotten rid of. Just like the babysitter's Huskie. It was "friendly" too and "great with children".

It cost me several hundred $$ to patch up my boy after recieving a dose of the dogs' "great pet" attitude. That dog was no problem after I was through with it. It got ALL the training a VICIOUS animal requires to make it docile.

When I was through correcting it's personality traits, anytime it saw me, it cowered. They also got rid of it to stave off the lawsuit. I notice that nobody ever gets sued because their Scotty or Jack Russell went crazy. I like the one by Kathy who proposes to teach me about how great Pitbulls are and then explains how she restrains them in order to treat them.

Not because they are "great pets" but, of course, because she knows they will shred her if given the chance. Way to go Kathy, I like debating with people who make my point. I know retrievers bite. They like to chew. A little bit of training takes care of that. Problem with that argument is that I have NEVER in 42 years seen or heard a report on the news of a Lab going crazy and killing anyone. They nip and sometrime break the skin, but they don't try to eat anyone.

My point is still valid. People buy dogs that are known to be aggressive because they want that type of dog...big and aggressive. And when they attack the hand that feeds them, they act like they have no idea what went wrong. If you keep a rattlesnake for a pet, don't be shocked when YOU are the one looking for the anti-venom. Adolph is dead on target.

Most homeowners associations prohibit ownership of these breeds. Alot of cities also prohibit them. I guess these people are just "uninformed" of the animals "great pet" status.

NOWHERE in her missive did she EVER say the dog was an ENGLISH Bull Terrier. As for you people trying to claim that Pitbulls are "friendly", I am speechless by the stupidity of that entire statement.

I worked with a guy who owned Rottweilers. He also claimed they were good pets and child proof. Yep, you can guess what happened to his 2 year old granddaughter. She recovered and the dogs were gotten rid of. Just like the babysitter's Huskie. It was "friendly" too and "great with children".

It cost me several hundred $$ to patch up my boy after recieving a dose of the dogs' "great pet" attitude. That dog was no problem after I was through with it. It got ALL the training a VICIOUS animal requires to make it docile.

When I was through correcting it's personality traits, anytime it saw me, it cowered. They also got rid of it to stave off the lawsuit. I notice that nobody ever gets sued because their Scotty or Jack Russell went crazy. I like the one by Kathy who proposes to teach me about how great Pitbulls are and then explains how she restrains them in order to treat them.

Not because they are "great pets" but, of course, because she knows they will shred her if given the chance. Way to go Kathy, I like debating with people who make my point. I know retrievers bite. They like to chew. A little bit of training takes care of that. Problem with that argument is that I have NEVER in 42 years seen or heard a report on the news of a Lab going crazy and killing anyone. They nip and sometrime break the skin, but they don't try to eat anyone.

My point is still valid. People buy dogs that are known to be aggressive because they want that type of dog...big and aggressive. And when they attack the hand that feeds them, they act like they have no idea what went wrong. If you keep a rattlesnake for a pet, don't be shocked when YOU are the one looking for the anti-venom. Adolph is dead on target.

Most homeowners associations prohibit ownership of these breeds. Alot of cities also prohibit them. I guess these people are just "uninformed" of the animals "great pet" status.

Staffordshire terriers,bull terriers or what ever else you may choose to sidestep the known temperament of PIT BULLS,doesn't change their unique physique. A Pit Bull has jaw muscles whose strenght is wildly in excess of the average breed. They were bred for this characteristic and agression for early day fighting. Seems like many of the "frendly and plays with my kids; wouldn't hurt a flea" Pit Bulls are the ones that spontaneously tear some poor child or senior citizen apart. Once the subject canine has a grip with their jaws, it's widely known they won't release their grip 'till you d**n near kill them.
.
You blew it when you had the dog capped. That dog would've been a drug dealer's dream come true.
.
This quote is typical:"Contrary to what the breeder believes, we WERE familiar with the breed and had met many people with Bull Terriers that were nothing but sweet-natured clowns." Yeah-untill they went unexplanably berserk and momentairly regressed to their genetic training. Yeah-they're reall sweeties. That's why many cities and homeowner's insurance companies have singularly unique policies for these sweetie pies.
.
Personally, if I wqere confronted by an agressive PIT BULL, the dog would eat a 38 +P frangible projectile.

Staffordshire terriers,bull terriers or what ever else you may choose to sidestep the known temperament of PIT BULLS,doesn't change their unique physique. A Pit Bull has jaw muscles whose strenght is wildly in excess of the average breed. They were bred for this characteristic and agression for early day fighting. Seems like many of the "frendly and plays with my kids; wouldn't hurt a flea" Pit Bulls are the ones that spontaneously tear some poor child or senior citizen apart. Once the subject canine has a grip with their jaws, it's widely known they won't release their grip 'till you d**n near kill them.
.
You blew it when you had the dog capped. That dog would've been a drug dealer's dream come true.
.
This quote is typical:"Contrary to what the breeder believes, we WERE familiar with the breed and had met many people with Bull Terriers that were nothing but sweet-natured clowns." Yeah-untill they went unexplanably berserk and momentairly regressed to their genetic training. Yeah-they're reall sweeties. That's why many cities and homeowner's insurance companies have singularly unique policies for these sweetie pies.
.
Personally, if I wqere confronted by an agressive PIT BULL, the dog would eat a 38 +P frangible projectile.

Staffordshire terriers,bull terriers or what ever else you may choose to sidestep the known temperament of PIT BULLS,doesn't change their unique physique. A Pit Bull has jaw muscles whose strenght is wildly in excess of the average breed. They were bred for this characteristic and agression for early day fighting. Seems like many of the "frendly and plays with my kids; wouldn't hurt a flea" Pit Bulls are the ones that spontaneously tear some poor child or senior citizen apart. Once the subject canine has a grip with their jaws, it's widely known they won't release their grip 'till you d**n near kill them.
.
You blew it when you had the dog capped. That dog would've been a drug dealer's dream come true.
.
This quote is typical:"Contrary to what the breeder believes, we WERE familiar with the breed and had met many people with Bull Terriers that were nothing but sweet-natured clowns." Yeah-untill they went unexplanably berserk and momentairly regressed to their genetic training. Yeah-they're reall sweeties. That's why many cities and homeowner's insurance companies have singularly unique policies for these sweetie pies.
.
Personally, if I wqere confronted by an agressive PIT BULL, the dog would eat a 38 +P frangible projectile.

Staffordshire terriers,bull terriers or what ever else you may choose to sidestep the known temperament of PIT BULLS,doesn't change their unique physique. A Pit Bull has jaw muscles whose strenght is wildly in excess of the average breed. They were bred for this characteristic and agression for early day fighting. Seems like many of the "frendly and plays with my kids; wouldn't hurt a flea" Pit Bulls are the ones that spontaneously tear some poor child or senior citizen apart. Once the subject canine has a grip with their jaws, it's widely known they won't release their grip 'till you d**n near kill them.
.
You blew it when you had the dog capped. That dog would've been a drug dealer's dream come true.
.
This quote is typical:"Contrary to what the breeder believes, we WERE familiar with the breed and had met many people with Bull Terriers that were nothing but sweet-natured clowns." Yeah-untill they went unexplanably berserk and momentairly regressed to their genetic training. Yeah-they're reall sweeties. That's why many cities and homeowner's insurance companies have singularly unique policies for these sweetie pies.
.
Personally, if I wqere confronted by an agressive PIT BULL, the dog would eat a 38 +P frangible projectile.

I have been a veterinary technician for almost fifteen years. With that said I have to wonder where "Robert, from North Carolina" collected all his misinformation on "Bull Terriers" first the dog being discussed is not a "Pitbull". (DUHHH) These are, in fact, two seperate breeds. "Bull terriers" of the english type, and of "Spuds McKenzie & Target" fame, which I have owned, bred, and shown for sixteen years ARE lovable clowns with a fierce "look" about them. That is where the fiercness ends, unless, as in the original letter the author explains there is some sort of faulty wiring in the brain. This happens sometimes, even with people. Now on to "pitbulls" or "American Staffordshire Terriers" (AKC reg.)also known as "American Pitbull Terriers" (UKC reg.). These dogs make WONDERFUL pets. They are also WONDERFUL family dogs loyal, loving and caring with children as well as adults, however, they do have a predisposition to be "dog aggressive" (Hear that Robert,DOG not PEOPLE) with proper socialization this can also be overcome.
Robert... in my fifteen years of dealing with ALL breeds of dogs I can honestly tell you that I would rather restrain, for any procedure, a pitbull over any of the following breeds... Cocker spaniel, Chow chow, Dalmation, Lhasa ahpso, Chihuahua, German shepard or Anatolian. The #1 biting dog in the U.S. usually will be reported as a Golden retriever believe it or not, I think this is because of thier vast numbers though. If you Speak with an animal control officer they will generaly tell you most bites that they respond to involve "a boy about 13 years old and some sort of wheeled item" skateboard rollerblades etc.
In this media driven country the only reports that the public will hear about are..."PITBULL ATTACKS TODDLER" stories. Nothing about the young "Gangsta wannabe" that made the dog that way with abusive training. You see,a labradoor retriever can rip off and devour a childs face or even kill a child and you won't hear about it unless it happens within 40 miles of your home town. Sad but true.
So Robert, now that you've been given this tutorial. I hope you will refrain from...

A)Making broad generalizations about things that you know little or nothing about. (I.E.What breed was the letter is pertaining to?)
B)Intimating that somebody else is stupid. (Glass houses...)
C)Perpetuating the myth that all "bull breed"
type dogs are people eaters. ("No bad dogs, just bad owners.")

I am sorry that the author had such a bad experience with the person she dealt with. I just want her to know that I have dealt with the same rage issue, only that incident was hormonally induced. You were very brave to have handled it so well. Most Bull Terrier breeders are good people. I have forwarded your letter to someone who I hope will put it on "The Bull Terrier List" Informative e-mails from and about bull terriers and thier breeders.

I won't waste my time and try to educate Robert on dog breeds. Suffice it to say that English Bull Terriers are not Pit Bull Terriers -- DUH! No breed is inherently aggressive. It's rude, ignorant and apathetic to post a response such as the one Robert posted. That is NO way to respond to someone who has obviously been hurt. How cruel of you, really.

I won't waste my time and try to educate Robert on dog breeds. Suffice it to say that English Bull Terriers are not Pit Bull Terriers -- DUH! No breed is inherently aggressive. It's rude, ignorant and apathetic to post a response such as the one Robert posted. That is NO way to respond to someone who has obviously been hurt. How cruel of you, really.

I won't waste my time and try to educate Robert on dog breeds. Suffice it to say that English Bull Terriers are not Pit Bull Terriers -- DUH! No breed is inherently aggressive. It's rude, ignorant and apathetic to post a response such as the one Robert posted. That is NO way to respond to someone who has obviously been hurt. How cruel of you, really.

I won't waste my time and try to educate Robert on dog breeds. Suffice it to say that English Bull Terriers are not Pit Bull Terriers -- DUH! No breed is inherently aggressive. It's rude, ignorant and apathetic to post a response such as the one Robert posted. That is NO way to respond to someone who has obviously been hurt. How cruel of you, really.

Where on earth did you get the idea that the breeds you listed on not good pets? The only one I can agree with would be a wolf or a wolf hybrid because of the natural instincts. Wolves are not domestic animals. I happen to know several of each breed that most certainly are wonderful companion animals.

I personally can tell you that Doberman Pinschers are not mean killer animals. I not only have my own Dobermans, I work with rescue. That means taking in dogs that are dumped, some have been abused, caring for them and finding them acceptable homes. I have never had a "bad" Doberman foster dog. All large dogs who were bred to be watchdogs and/or aggressive should be trained.

Rotties, Huskies, Dobermans, Pit Bulls, and other large dogs have been given a bad rap because people purchased them and either did not train them at all or trained them to be mean.
For the person who purchased the puppy with severe problems: You need to report this to the kennel club where this person's dogs are registered. If they were not from registered parents and were sold as such, file a fraud report.

If you have to purchase a companion animal from a breeder, get a list of references and call all of them. Find out where the parents are registered and contact the kennel club. Ask about the breeder and if there have been any complaints about his/her dogs. See the facilities where the puppies are born and kept until they are sold and always see both parents. Ask to see the pareant's registration and blood line (check for in-breeding). I encourage everyone looking for a breed dog to contact the human society in their area. There are breed dog rescues. Check them out when you are looking for a companion animal.

You buy a Pit Bull and are amazed that the thing is violent and aggressive. DUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! That's exactly why people buy them. If you want a family pet, buy a cat. If you have to have a dog, buy a mutt or something with a good temperment. And no, Rottweilers and Dobermans and Huskies and Wolves and the list goes on, do NOT make good friendly pets.