Report: Ds-max, Dsmax, Ds/max, Granton Marketing, Cydcor
Category: Corrupt Companies
ds-max, dsmax, ds/max, granton marketing, cydcor ripoff abused & mistreated cheated employees and screwed the customers even more corruption the business that doesn't give a dam www.ds-max.com Internet *EDitor's Comment
*UPDATE Ex-Employee responds ..My Experience..................
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Ds-max, Dsmax, Ds/max, Granton Marketing, Cydcor
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Submitted: 7/20/2002 7:31:25 AM
Modified: 2/29/2008 12:58:35 PM
Xjuice
Beverly Hills, CAThis message is from a member of http://www.msnusers.com/DSMAXTheAftermath
and is delivered to this site anonymously..
I was in DSMax for years. I should have quit a while ago. I kept on thinking that I would get promoted. It never happened. DSMax seems nice but it just uses people.
You get brainwashed into believing that if you work hard and believe in your self and the marketing system that you will be financially independant. You pay for your own transportation, food, lodging on roadtrips and taxes. You pay new reps out of your own pocket when you train them. There are many days when you make no money.
They had me sell travel packages that turned out to be illegitimate. I was used as a vehicle to rip people off. It makes me sick. I started to hear complaints from customers about validity of trips. I would ask the managers if they were legitimate. I was assured that they were and then they were not. My immediate managers were all good people. I think that they must have been assured that the packages would be honored. This happened with 3 different campaigns.
Managers make money at the expense of leaders. Leaders train and pay new people out of their pocket. The amount of times I would spend a day with someone - work on their pitch, get to know them, quiz them - pay them some or ALL of the daily earnings - to not have them show up again. Leaders do this because they believe that if they follow the management plan, they will become a manager and attain financial independance. Very few make it. Very many suffer considerable financial loss for trying.
The company does not pay payroll taxes. They 1099 everyone. They cover next to nothing. Thus they can hire numerous sales reps to sell products and compete against a companies own sales force. A company can out source a sales force based on perfermance via dsmax.
The downside? The sales reps make shit for money, have no benefits and few have loyalty to the company they represent. Why should they? They are in it for the fast buck so a percentage of them mis-represent the client and rip it and/or its customers off.
Also, the company can turn around and lay its people off. You don't need nafta to hire cheap labor in Mexico - or a good fiberoptic system to hook up to cheap labor in India. Contract DSMax. Who suffers? The company's sales reps, the distributers and the ripped off customers.
Most of the senior reps have integrity to the clients they represent. I sure did. The problem is that their is NO screening of applicants at all. The managers preach looking out for the client up and down and when they do find bad reps they fire them. (Especially if the rep is making the manager money. Some manager do hold on to such people.) But very often before this is done the rep has caused considerable damage.
In a way I'm relieved I'm not promoted now. I would not have taken time to look at the consequences of DSMAX. I would be an owner that would promote a business that in the long run, is financially devastating for the vast majority of people who want to try it out - especially leaders.
I would urge my sales crew to promote products that might rip people off. I would preach opportunity to people that I knew that few if any might attain.
That is my 2 cents. Do with it what you will.
please join our community if you have been victimized..all is anonymous..we realize that ds-max is like the mob and very powerful...
xjuice
Los Angeles, California
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Updates & Rebuttals:
- Dear Disgruntled X-Employee Jason [8/29/2002 3:53:47 PM]
- Just one question jon [8/30/2002 8:41:06 AM]
- to the Jason 'puppet'... abbie [9/5/2002 10:15:42 PM]
- To the dreamers that never will be! Kelly [10/17/2002 5:19:59 PM]
- EDitor's Response: [10/18/2002 1:44:11 AM]
- Is your recruiting being affected Kelley? ..Most People that buy into the hype of ds-max get hurt! jon [10/19/2002 5:53:27 AM]
- Kelley, honey... abbie [10/19/2002 1:38:03 PM]
- Financial Security vs. Job security!! James [10/23/2002 5:13:08 PM]
- Supplier?!? ..they produce all that cheap crap abbie [10/24/2002 1:13:01 PM]
- it all goes back to the source jon [10/27/2002 3:01:07 PM]
- Dsmax ...I'm a firm believer brent [10/29/2002 11:17:01 AM]
- glad you are doing the homework,. jon [11/1/2002 6:58:41 AM]
- Wow! Juiced by you guys.... Mo [12/8/2002 12:47:47 AM]
- Good points Mo. Thanks for enlightening us. mark [12/8/2002 4:44:48 PM]
- Thanks for proving all of us right, MO, MO x [12/12/2002 8:59:02 AM]
- DS-MAX (The One and Only) Adam [1/24/2003 8:59:11 AM]
- see we try and warn him... todd [1/24/2003 4:20:56 PM]
- The entire truth about parent company Ds-Max Stephen [1/25/2003 6:24:40 PM]
- Rip-off? Cult? Here is some truth Barney [1/29/2003 2:01:09 PM]
- You just have ALL the answers don't you? Justin [1/30/2003 6:55:32 AM]
- All that Cydcor is Monica [2/3/2003 11:03:52 AM]
- 10 Facts About cydcor (ds max) Free Cow [2/6/2003 1:13:08 PM]
- Thank God for everyone's postings. . . YOU SAVED ME!!! Casey [2/19/2003 9:35:55 PM]
- Potential new employee of ds-max Anne [2/23/2003 3:22:24 AM]
- 'Weakness'/Social Darwinism Robert [2/23/2003 6:42:37 PM]
- RE: TO EDITORS RESPONSE Bob [3/12/2003 1:49:53 PM]
- Get over yourself, Bobby! Maurice [3/21/2003 6:44:07 PM]
- Ds-Max a large scam Pissed [3/27/2003 9:42:09 AM]
- Only SEVEN complaints? James [5/1/2003 1:34:56 AM]
- The Real Truth Michael [5/2/2003 2:32:38 PM]
- Thanks for saving me! Dan [5/8/2003 7:26:18 PM]
- Mark from Topeka is 100% CORRECT! Max [5/9/2003 12:09:32 PM]
- O.K....This is the REAL truth..... David [5/11/2003 3:41:18 AM]
- The zombies keep coming... James [5/12/2003 2:01:28 AM]
- All talk, no action? Mallory [5/12/2003 10:39:34 AM]
- Read the link ..I will continue to criticize DS-Max's ethics on all levels. James [5/13/2003 1:41:54 AM]
- david, So why did you leave? Todd [5/13/2003 8:31:06 AM]
- Read the link Mallory [5/17/2003 4:24:36 PM]
- Education of employees, or lack there of... Jj [5/28/2003 4:06:57 PM]
- so many of these owners represent their organization so poorly Todd [7/10/2003 2:41:41 PM]
- LOL ---> Jj and Todd Ann [7/19/2003 4:23:22 PM]
- Attn: all current employees of ds-max ..coming to scam the scam. Payback [7/22/2003 11:37:20 PM]
- To all you people who feel you got used, you did. Don [8/11/2003 10:37:21 AM]
- IT IS A CULT Lynsey [8/18/2003 4:36:35 AM]
- DS-Max reflects human nature ..false advertising Mike [8/19/2003 11:59:23 AM]
- the truth shall set you free!!!! ..there are shady owners out there. It took me six years in this company to finally realize Andrew [8/22/2003 2:17:16 PM]
- cydcor lies, there are not excuses Anonymous [9/15/2003 12:36:30 PM]
- i knew something wasn't right when i went for the first interview Chris [11/27/2003 12:40:17 AM]
- Millions? What I can't understand is how and why all the managers lie so damn much about how much money they are making. Tom [12/5/2003 12:58:30 PM]
- This is the most cold and callous thing I have ever read. A Teacher [12/6/2003 12:52:30 PM]
- This is the most phenominal company and system on the planet !!!!! Carl [12/8/2003 8:39:46 AM]
- Not being honest about what you do is the real testament... James [12/8/2003 7:09:37 PM]
- Best System on planet? ..how many people did you have to cheat and lie to, to get where you are today? Mason [12/9/2003 8:38:18 AM]
- A much smarter business man, Unfortunately after the fact Eagle [12/11/2003 3:46:37 AM]
- I have seen on here a lot of negative comments Michael [1/13/2004 7:53:12 PM]
- The Real Deal for all you Gimmels, Anyone who makes a sincere attempt at this business and reaches Leadership Ed [1/16/2004 8:39:40 PM]
- I Have busted my ass with this company for 6 months and have gotten no where. Dusty [1/25/2004 1:44:29 PM]
- Non-arguments refuted ..Instead of throwing a bunch of idealistic fallacies at us, why don't you give us some hard stats.? James [1/29/2004 4:49:27 AM]
- Um... anyone home? ..the ridiculous methods and techniques employed by these companies were some of the reasons I LEFT Stephen [1/31/2004 9:07:29 AM]
- Easy there Edward.... You are trying to argue your point with the wrong people. Mike [2/2/2004 9:06:06 PM]
- Finally some feedback - This'll be Quick Ed [2/11/2004 9:01:13 AM]
- blah blah blah, Perhaps you did sell to one out of every five customers. Good for you! Stephen [2/12/2004 12:19:02 AM]
- What are you waisting your time here for Ed? Todd [2/12/2004 8:20:37 AM]
- Manipulation isn't taught in a classroom and brainwashing is not comical James [2/13/2004 12:24:28 PM]
- ' Gimme A Break' Jeff [3/3/2004 6:02:38 PM]
- *Yawn* You have not addressed ANY of the issues brought up in these boards about DS-MAX Stephen [3/10/2004 7:32:34 PM]
- My 2 Cents don't hate the player... hate the game Aaron [3/20/2004 9:50:22 PM]
- I feel that this compnay was like boot camp for the working world. Jonathan [3/24/2004 2:53:49 PM]
- Watch out!!! They're in NC now. Thank heaven for this website!! Lisa [5/17/2004 5:54:18 PM]
- changing names... just like a criminal trying to hide! Randy [5/24/2004 4:08:18 AM]
- sick of the same speech Ryan [5/25/2004 7:38:13 AM]
- Is IMG, Inc. associated with these companies? Meghan [6/9/2004 11:04:07 AM]
- Yes Meghan, stay away!!!!!!!!!!! Ann [6/10/2004 1:26:47 AM]
- The Good comes with the bad... yes there is some sexual harrassment xXx [7/9/2004 8:17:58 PM]
- Capitalism or rip-off? Bob [7/22/2004 5:11:21 PM]
- hmmmmmm.....another comment - all seem to have problems with grammar and spelling Bob [7/23/2004 5:43:38 AM]
- how to ruin your life in 8 steps Thuy [7/26/2004 7:27:14 PM]
- In loving respects of both parties Patchree [7/27/2004 2:07:55 PM]
- Only to help William [7/27/2004 2:51:22 PM]
- and the bull-feathers keep on' a crankin' Bob [7/28/2004 5:15:01 AM]
- You Can't Be Serious Ed [7/29/2004 10:48:04 AM]
- Another Granton Marketing Victim Lindsey [7/29/2004 11:14:18 PM]
- Retraction Lindsey [7/30/2004 5:14:43 PM]
- Fun in the Sun, thank you to everyone that posts on this site John [8/3/2004 3:38:35 PM]
- individual ofices Ric [8/5/2004 7:41:13 PM]
- This is coming from a VP ready to quit Derek [8/9/2004 12:25:21 PM]
- This company is nothing more than a basic cult, that in sociological terms deals with the 'routinization of the charismatic leader.' Nicole [8/9/2004 1:02:12 PM]
- I was and owner also. My promoting manager screwed me! Jay [8/10/2004 3:38:50 PM]
- DSM and My cancer Jeff [8/11/2004 2:41:33 PM]
- Nothing against the company, just a few questions Naomi [8/13/2004 11:19:36 AM]
- Responce to Naomi - New Londow, Florida Jeff [8/14/2004 8:55:02 AM]
- The reason why it is so hard to move up in the company Naomi. Jay [8/14/2004 6:36:18 PM]
- questions for Jay Naomi [8/15/2004 9:11:14 PM]
- Jay, your stories seem very interesting Raymond [8/15/2004 9:22:27 PM]
- My response to you Naomi and Raymond. Jay [8/16/2004 4:59:28 PM]
- How reputable is a company on the net which has no contact info? Bill [8/16/2004 8:35:15 PM]
- I was an Owner and Still Got Screwed Andre [8/18/2004 12:59:20 PM]
- A 'reporter'? ---->'Brent' of Lansing, MI Bob [8/20/2004 6:21:20 AM]
- I have a question...? Why haven't they gone public? PJ [8/22/2004 4:40:09 PM]
- Get out this job is a joke and a scam Out Of Cash [9/10/2004 3:24:15 PM]
- A few questions for the complainers Ed [9/12/2004 7:38:36 PM]
- Harsh Reality, Both parties are saying many true statements, i have experienced extremes of both. Julian [9/27/2004 2:24:52 PM]
- HUH? .. it's the complaintants fault for staying? Let me remind you that tax fraud is still illegal Ed [9/27/2004 6:02:11 PM]
- Ed from NY, you've proven yourself wrong... James [9/27/2004 10:48:43 PM]
- All so interesting Kyle [9/28/2004 10:39:26 AM]
- This is 'NUTS' Ed [9/29/2004 4:47:08 AM]
- Lied to out of Albany Doug [11/1/2004 11:31:02 AM]
- Wow, who knew things were that bad Dan [11/10/2004 7:59:43 AM]
- Wow, who knew things were that bad Dan [11/10/2004 8:00:24 AM]
- I was the Rhino, then I realized, I needed to make money Richard [11/10/2004 9:07:42 AM]
- It is normal to defend the biz after you leave when they have you hooked... Todd [11/10/2004 3:11:20 PM]
- ds max is B.S. Nick [12/14/2004 6:12:37 PM]
- Can you work for yourself? Hans [1/6/2005 11:55:20 AM]
- Thanks for strengthening our arguments Dan [1/10/2005 7:48:20 AM]
- 3 week breakdown Todd [1/13/2005 2:51:42 PM]
- Not Angree, Simply Concerned Lathen [1/18/2005 1:55:49 PM]
- HOW INCORRECT Candace [2/12/2005 8:35:05 AM]
- Candace... Kimberly [2/15/2005 7:47:06 AM]
- Here's something for all you 'JUICE' freaks!!! Nick [2/18/2005 1:04:54 PM]
- Who are you trying to fool Alex [2/20/2005 12:42:57 PM]
- Formerly associated......NOT bitter Phil [3/3/2005 1:58:08 PM]
- EXCEL ADVERTISING Murray [3/15/2005 5:41:48 PM]
- Um........Phil aren't you forgeting something? Alex [3/18/2005 3:06:23 PM]
- DS-MAX is your own stupidity Douglas [6/21/2005 3:00:01 PM]
- DSMax is a huge joke Lee [7/4/2005 3:15:20 PM]
- DSMAX - Don't go for the ride A [7/6/2005 1:33:47 PM]
- Thanx for the warning April [7/26/2005 11:30:44 AM]
- Oh the things I learned... Amanda [8/1/2005 2:36:08 PM]
- DS-Max - You can learn, but don't expect to make a fortune. Keith [9/22/2005 9:48:58 PM]
- Don't let them use you, use them instead Peter [9/28/2005 8:17:09 AM]
- Save the sales pitch... Jim [10/8/2005 1:15:27 AM]
- To all of you Juiced up morons, I hope you read this because 8 out of 10 present or future administrators will be telling a similar story. Jill [10/8/2005 10:33:36 PM]
- All fun and games until somone looses Brent [10/24/2005 9:17:26 AM]
- This is lovely, I love people talking trash and they can't even back it up Kyo [10/25/2005 11:34:45 PM]
- Raff couldn't have worked for Merrill! Mark [10/30/2005 7:09:46 AM]
- DS-MAX and cults Brian [11/16/2005 9:31:37 PM]
- c'mon people get a clue! Darren [11/24/2005 10:06:01 AM]
- Past Employee Reflects 15 years Later J [2/16/2006 4:30:46 PM]
- A few things that have not yet been mentioned... Joel [2/22/2006 10:32:12 AM]
- a few things need to be said. Steph [2/27/2006 2:23:30 PM]
- I was Employeed For 2 years David [7/24/2006 3:22:35 PM]
- Poor Lindsay from Mass. EX Manager [7/27/2006 2:37:27 PM]
- It's not a rip-off, this business isn't for everyone Jessica [8/30/2006 12:32:21 PM]
- I'VE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER Andrew [12/2/2006 9:58:07 AM]
- DS Max Not for Anyone Russ [12/3/2006 7:31:42 AM]
- Your timelines don't match up Andrew in Florida Danielle [12/3/2006 10:28:27 PM]
- Another Ex Sounds off JJ [12/12/2006 12:19:08 PM]
- So Close it's scary Jonathan [12/20/2006 11:10:40 AM]
- The Top Ten signs you are involved with Cydcor, DS-Max, Granton, Innovage, The Smart Circle Pyramid [1/8/2007 11:06:56 PM]
- Tip 1 Maurice [1/17/2007 8:03:25 AM]
- DS Max isnt so bad at all.... Iredia [1/17/2007 11:10:57 PM]
- Lies Lies Lies Lauren [3/21/2007 2:13:55 PM]
- Thanks for the experience Granton! Matt [4/9/2007 3:04:47 PM]
- funny Chris [8/31/2007 9:12:38 PM]
- My Experience Beej [12/6/2007 11:50:10 PM]
- 10 years ago i got into the DS Max system, and today direct sales is still strong in Malta!!! Thankyou. Reuben From Malta [12/7/2007 4:21:26 AM]
- it is what it is Fenton Quackshell [2/1/2008 1:47:59 PM]
- My Experience.................. Engineerguy [2/29/2008 11:43:56 AM]
Dear Disgruntled X-Employee
DS-MAX is a quality organization and provides the best opportunity for its people success in a business environment. DS-MAX has 14,700 offices currently and is located in 103 countries. So there is no question that the system in question works for those that choose to work it. Almost 15,000 owners is not a direct reflection of 'very few make it'. Those people that don't make it in DS-MAX are no different than any other employee that becomes disillusioned when they actually find out that they're not management material or they might have to work a little bit harder and longer than the guy next to them to acheive success.
I think is is important to make a distinction between DS-MAX, Granton Marketing, and CYDCOR because the business structure & philosophies that governs each. DS-Max and Granton do have independent contractors. CYDCOR has W-2 employees and does provide benefits and retirement plans for some of it's independently owned branches.
I went through CYDCOR's management training program in 9 months worked on the AT&T, CSI, Stamps.com, and about 8 other reputable clients campaigns. I even sold these Travel certificates in question and even sold one to my parents who had no issues using the promotion. I have been running an office for 2 years and have a networth over $250,000. Not bad for a 26 year old with no sales/marketing experience.
If you're looking for stability and opportunity with you're next position I would definitly recommend this company.
Just one question
I just have a few questions for you Jason. How many people did you chew up and spit out to get where you are now?
You had to build a crew. You took out days of O. that did not know what they were getting into. There time was waisted. You trained people to be leaders - but many could not last. Now you run an office where alot of people may not be making they need to get buy - but they stay on because they want to get promoted. How many Days of O's do you have a year. How many leaders do you have a year? How many people will get promoted by you in a year. Maybe one or two? None? When you do your morning meeting and preach opportunity to these people - who do you think will actually succeed?
to the Jason 'puppet'...
Jason, you belong exactly where you are. As a matter of fact, you are exactly what a DS Max, Cydcor, etc. is looking for. I mean, who else would send their parents on any trip courtesy of DS Max? How tacky, but I'm sure you saved a bundle! Tacky like DS Max... 'where the bottom feeders go'. After seeing what goes on at this place and reading about how you, and probably all these 'owners' and 'managers', think you are these incredible 26 year old hand selected marketing wizards makes me sick and angry. I can't believe you're actually proud of what you do to other people. DS Max, and it's hundreds of fly by night affiliates, got to where it is by abusing and taking advantage of its employees, no not 'independant distributors', employees. I've witnessed some pretty bad things. I mean bad.
It's disturbing to see the 'Jasons' of the world keeping this horrible company alive. Juice by you Jason. Not.
To the dreamers that never will be!
I think it is interesting that this Abbie character has responded to every posting on this web site. Obviously she's got nothing better to do and probably is wasting corporate dollars to complain on the web. I wonder if she would have been successful and financially independent if she would still be whinning?
What successful person has never had to make any sacrifices to get where they're at. I love to hear how people that were not successful with the system want to blame the company for their financial woes and heartache. If you don't have people skills and take things personally you won't succeed anywhere. DS-MAX does go through a lot of people to find the right candidates. Not everyone can handle running a company. We try to weed out the ones that are weak and can not handle the responsibility.
There might be a few bad owners out there that use people, but what large company doesn't have bad deceptive people managing. But a majority do not and are very helpful in seeing their people succeed. I wish Abbie and the others the best of luck with their futures. I'll see you on the beach sipping margarita's in about 10 years, or not!
EDitor's Response:
Kelley,
Great Customer Service tactic! ...just browbeat the victims who complain. With your arrogance, I am sure the public will get your message that you don't really need them.
ED Magedson
EDitor@ripoffreport.com
Is your recruiting being affected Kelley? ..Most People that buy into the hype of ds-max get hurt!
Being financially independant through dsmax is like the story of the 'monkeys paw'. Every time you made a wish with it, it used a bad way to accomplish the wish. This couple wished for money and then their son died and they got a death benefit. Then they wished for their son back and he was resurrected in a horrible gruesome manner. The final of the three wishes was that he would stay dead and buried.
It is not a great thing to promote an opportunity that causes so much harm! Most People that buy into the hype of ds-max get hurt! What about all those people who quit because they got in a slump? They quit and you train yourselves to go on with the business and never think about them again. Just more of one of the law of average people that were not good enough to do it. They sure arn't going to get unemployment. DS-Max trains you to go on and not worry about their rent or there kids.
You try and compare DS-Max to evolution and say that you are weeding out the weak. Hypocrite! More like the ones dumb enough to stick around and accept the hype.
The leadership in DS-Max puts the pied piper of Hamlin to shame. With his magic pipe the piper caused the death of thousands of rats and kidnapped hundreds of kids. This was just two days work. Compare that with 22 years of getting people from all walks of life to go door to door and try and build sales crews from who ever will listen.
And how do they do it?
1. Teaching people to focus just on what they want you to focus on. They get you to tell your goals and then explain how financial independance through DS-Max will accomplish these goals.
2. Meetings and Atmosphere. They get the puppet leaders to recite chants and lingo. The puppet leaders patrol the office for dissenting voices and make sure that new people arn't hanging out with other new people or people that don't fit the status quo. They pitch and promote opportunity. Then they have meetings before they go out in the field. The owner will use his people skills to motivate everyone into a selling frenzy and be backed by shouts and chants of the puppet leaders which are recited on queue.
3. Rallys. 3 to 4 times a year these events are held in regions and big speakers come and promote more and more about the benefits of this business.
4. Teaching leaders. These leaders get taught to give all or nothing at all to the business. So they spend thier extra money whining and dining potential recruits into the business. They work ungodly hours just to prove that they can hit sales goals and set example in the office and win the opportunity to get awarded new job candidates or be able to run a mini-meeting called an 'impact'.
The editor had a unique insight into Ds-max. He brought up something and it reminded me of an aspect of DS-Max I had forgotten to think about. He said that Kelley showed how Ds-max didn't really need people. Well Mr. Ed Magdeson if you had only seen the meetings I have about just that topic! The powers that be know that it takes alot of recruits to produce just one owner. They relate it to what they call 'the law of averages' Based on the number of people you see, some will say yes. The amount of times I saw impassioned speaches about how one guy would lose a crew and then go on and build another and get better and better at it. You can't where your heart on your sleeve when trying to build these people, because so many walk out on you after you spend a day training them. They accept a part of the daily commission that you earned, thank you, promise to be in the next day and that is it. People in that business promote up and down how they never need one specific person, but how they can always go out and build another crew. So, Mr editor, you are entirely correct - the business does protray people as expendable.
The meeting that always used to keep me in was how an owner that stuck it out and got rich would see someone that had quit the business years before and was poor. Someone running this meeting would promote the wealth they have and the way they got it by building people into successful business owners. I would here this meeting and go back to work with a fervor because I didn't want to be that schmuck who couldn't stick it out and would be poor forever. Knowing what I know now, I couldn't sleep at night thinking that I was leading people around, alluding to promised financial independance when all that was going to happen is either burn out financial bottom out.
But this business makes so many people poor. I myself am just starting to recover financially. I'll never forget seeing someone that had been on my crew living on the street. True, It was a year later, he was an alcoholic and had other problems. But maybe if he was working for at least minimum wage and making a stable pay he wouldn't have gotten so low.
WISE UP KELLEY!
Kelley, honey...
Kelley, sweetheart, you don't know me or anything about the office I was in. First of all, any responses you see written by me are done solely on my time, ok. Secondly, I chose to leave the company. I was in an office there was physical abuse, verbal abuse and sexual harassment (that's putting it mildly). The managers always said 'It's not about the sales', seems they were right! They had other things in mind for us, especially for the women... Do you think that's a place I should have stayed at to try to learn how to run THEIR business?? I don't think so...Would you have stayed? I also don't think I'm whinning and if I were, it's my right! I'm so outraged by what I've seen and what I've been forced to experience that if I didn't share it with others, that would be wrong. I know I wasn't forewarned, but if I can I will try to educate others about this company and its practices BEFORE they even get to their Day Of Ob. And, Kelley, that's why I've responded to most of the reports on the website. Comments like yours only add fuel to the fire, honey! The more I write, the more will be read...
Financial Security vs. Job security!!
I think where everyone is confused about is that DS-Max is really just a supplier of products. Sure they have training programs instituted that should be adhereed to just like a McDonald's, Subway or any other franchised business.
They have a certain system that was proven to be a model for success just like any other successful franchise has a certain sysstem that works for their business model.
Where the difference occurs is how frnchises are established. When someone makes it to management and incorperates they establish their own name to do business under.
I agree there should be some more control and more systems in place to govern the franchised locations but that's where the real ooportunity begins it is not in the traditional sense a franchise it is a independently owned business and incorperated as such. So when managers get out on their own they can run their businesses any way they want which means people who are dishonest and use people are out their and unfortunately they are also an example of our business. I am sure people have been to some McDonald's that are run more effficiently than other's etc.
I think if you have a beef it is not with DS-MAX it is with your individual owner and that leadership team. Bad things happen out there and placing blame on DS-MAX is shooting at the wrong target.
As far as people not making it financially. That is a function of the person's ability to do cold call sales, their attitude, and persisitence. The system works! There are many people that attain financial independence and wealth accumalation. 15,000 and counting. Have thousands of other people not made it and been worsen by the company, probably! 'It's 100% commission sales, it takes a certain breed. ANd some people just don't have it. Look at the general population as a whole.
The average yearly income is $22K. That sucks! Why does 99% of the wealth accumalated by 1% of the population. Choices!Committment!and Taking risk! Is DS-MAx risky? Not anymore than going into business for yourself. It's a proven business people! you can argue all you want but it does work.
Do some franchises fail yeah 3 out of five fail within the first five years. With any risk sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't that's why it's called risk. Some people are prove to failure that's life. People go broke because of the choices they make! I have obtained my financial goal's with this companies training and have watched many of my teammates do the same things. I enjoy doing things with out having to worry about the cost. This company can help you if you are open to learning and commiting to a system. If not I would advise you otherwise!
If that's a brow beating, Ed, I'm sorry! We definitly need and care about people, that is our whole business. Sometimes we care too much and that is what sucks. I wish everyone could be succesful in our business but that is and would be impossible as with any business. Utopian society only exists in textbooks.
Supplier?!? ..they produce all that cheap crap
DS Max is more than just a supplier. DS Max has factories in China that produce all that cheap crap that those guys carry in the field, i.e. calculators, knife sets, etc.
The 'VP' that ran my office at the time accompanied Larry on trips to China and told us all about it. DS Max manufactures the stuff, runs the offices that sell their products and the employees go pushing in the field all day long.
The only thing that these 'individually owned' offices do is remove themselves BY NAME ONLY from the DS Max umbrella. That gives the owners a chance to hide behind DS Max when they need to and DS Max can hide behind the BS individually owned front when it needs to. I'm surprised they haven't been found out and shut down yet.
it all goes back to the source
Dear James,
I applaud you for trying to make a proactive response. However, we can not direct our writings at the individual franchises. Our complaints belong squarely with ds-max, cydcor and granton marketing.
They are the cause of the system! They keep it going. They run it.
The organization I was in had a great promoting office to start. But horror stories came out of it. Both in some of the outside deals and later in that same office.
It would be O.K. to think that the laws of supply and demand and good business practices would just weed out all the bad owners. But they don't. And whether these owners get weeded out early - 0r stay in - the GUYs suffer the most either way.
And even if there were NO bad owners, we still have a beef with DS-max. 1 Information about advancement is used in a carrot and stick method only a little bit at a time. 2 Many people lose a lot of money and time by being affiliated with the organization. It takes hundreds of recruits to make an owner. And even then the business can still go under. Leaders do what ever they can to keep people on their crew. At least 'cows' (average working people) have health insurance.
Ds-max has the same marketing system through out the world and has rally's through out the world. And this sight is only dealing with some pissed off people from the US. It is MINDBOGGLING to speculate just how much corruption is going on around the world because of the practices of this company.
And there arn't and probably never will be unions or any type of organized labor. With the amount of turn around that goes on in these offices? Once people quit they are rarely mentioned again. The owner can always paint the picture he wants to his office of mostly new people. The leaders that dissent are called negative and get fired. Most leaders want to project the image that the manager sets forth so that they can gain favor and earn the right to do mini-meetings and be given candidates to try and build their crew.
So how is a new impressionable employee supposed to learn anything different from what the owner wants?
Most often noone that they know has ever heard of the company.
People will get the pros of Ds-max from their owners and leaders. We want to provide some of the cons.
Good luck to all of you and God bless you.
Dsmax ...I'm a firm believer
I've been in the buisness for about 5 months now and can say that any question i have about the buisness and how it works are answered. I would say its not for everyone but not every job is. with the questions i ask, like how much does a manager really make or can you really get what you dream of when you were little will come true?
I asked my manager about these questions i had and he said yes. well i wanted to be sure of it, i'm not one to want to get myself into something that was promised and dont recieved. So i did some research, i'm graduating soon so i checked into it just to make sure this is what i want to do because i like to keep my options open. I was amazed by the support i got from the research i did. every manager i talked to answered all my tough questions i had.
I use to be a reporter, so knowing how to dig up dirt wasnt hard. I went strait to the top and asked questions about the buisness and why and how they got into the buisness. everyone had a different story of how and why they did it but all said they would do it again. They even offered me to call them any time again with further questions i might have. i even got a home number too.
I asked them about the money they make and why they dont live in these nice outragous homes you would see on MTV like the Crib. they said we are ordinary guys and girls who could do that but feel they dont have too. some do and some dont, its what you want, you cant show your bank records to everyone.
I'm a firm believer now. I wanted to make sure this buisness was going to take me somewhere before i jump on the bus. I'm now pushing for management and now well on the way. every day of observation i take out, i tell them to call anyone in the buisness and find out for themselves.
I was once a day of o and was looking for the fine print they havent told me yet or everyone tells you the icing on the cake but not the ingridents. i give numbers to call for my day of O to get anothers opinion before starting the buisness. I want them to feel comfortable with the buisness just like i am or a second opinion. I can honestly say that i've closed every person i've took out. i feel bad for those who might get screwed in anouthers office. i've heard horror stories of other offices and cant believe the manager is still open.
Our manager is one of the youngest managers and on the phone all the time trying to find ways to be one of the best managers for his employees. he asks us what we can do to make this office better then the rest and he helps us become better too.
Dsmax is a great place to work and can change your life for the best.
My opinion to others is call around to other offices and find out what they could be doing or ask them questions you feel you need to be answered. call other divisions such as wheelchair books or the roses divison, theres many divisions out there under Dsmax, find out. theres a huge support system that Dsmax provides, USE IT.
glad you are doing the homework,.
I'm glad you are asking the questions Brent. You have heard horror stories in other offices. That is correct. Your flaw is that you are only asking people IN the business about the business.
Look at your atmosphere room. What would any one of the good leaders in your office do if he heard a new people asking questions about the validity of the busines? The answer is to spend time with the new person and make him feel good about the business. If it was a serious problem the leader would tell the new persons leader and the owner. If it was a really serious problem the dissenter would get isolated from other new people to prevent others from also getting 'negative'.
The guys you are asking are all experts at building crews and manipulating people to get what they want.
Ds-max people are great manipulaters. They took a business that started selling junk in the back of a car and made it a global enterprise. The goods could be bought cheaper in stores. The reps never got taxes taken out. They never screened their applicants and alot of these people end up screwing customers. They go through thousands of people to make just one owner. A lot of these people go broke in the process. Even homeless! These guys became multi millionaires by telling people what they want to hear! Not much has changed between how it started and how it is now!
Do you think Brent that at some level you are being told what you want to here?
I've been there. You feel accepted and you are going for a goal of financial independance! The power of the morning meetings and the speakers at the rallys is overwhelming! Your emotions and adrenaling pump and you get inspired to work hard and close everyone and take on the world.
But if you really look at the consequences of the business on the overwelming majority of people it touches - is that something you want to contribute to?
Read Lauren's report.
God bless you Brent.
Wow! Juiced by you guys....
Firstly, Wow! Juiced by you guys for being enthusiastic. Can I get an owners bonus in here? Personally, I believe whole-heartedly in DSMax, Granton and CydCor. I think it important to realize that not only are all OPINIONS on this bulletin board individual and products of different experiences, but are infact only that. None of us will ever agree on anything if we use our independent experiences as blanket truth. I have little doubt that the woman from Farmingdale (Abby?) was cheated; that Jason from SF believes in the 5 & 8, and Ed (&Kelly) know that browbeating is ineffective.
Real facts include:
-DSMax does do more sales, promotions, advertising worldwide because of direct marketing.
-More people do not succeed at the business, than actually attain manager status.
-In business, people are motivated by money. (That's all business...not just DSMax)
-Corporations around the world, regardless of name need people to make money flow.
-Angering clients, customers, employees, independent contractors, and ex-employees is not helpful for business.
Okay people. Harsh reality, not everyone will be financially stable, or even happy with their lives no matter what they wind up doing. It's the yin and the yang of life. No one asked you to answer the ad that said, 'entry-level, management training, etc.' But you took a shot at it, and it didn't work. That's okay. You'll be all right. There's a job/career for you somewhere. But not on this bulletin board.
Stop spending time trying to burst someone else's goals, dreams. You're trying to sell something to someone who cannot or does not want to pick up your information/product. Didn't you learn anything as a distributor? Perhaps that's why things didn't go your way. It's all right. Everyone has a different learning curve or desire to succeed. That's what I picked up from my manager; it's only a deal if it can benefit the customer.
Secondly, I find it ironic that this 'Rip-Off Report' screams about victimization, but then FINES companies for filing rebuttals: (and I quote, from 'Terms of Agreement')
FEES
Companies or Individuals who have submitted 4 REBUTTALS to the Rip-off Reports filed against them will be charged a $20 fee for each REBUTTAL posted to a Rip-off Report starting with the 5th REBUTTAL, payable in advance by using PayPal... see PayPal logo below. Or you may send a check or money order to: badbusinessbureau.com, PO Box 1340, Media, Pennsylvania, 19063.
We encourage companies, which have received complaints on the Rip-off Report, to resolve those problems and where appropriate, reimburse those monies to the victims. We offer our services and our database to help companies accomplish this for a processing fee of $20 per person in our database. Once the victim's complaint has been rectified, a complimentary Update will be posted mentioning that the matter has been resolved, is included in that fee. Payment arrangements should be made prior to the database manipulation. Remember, fixing the problem could end up being the best form of advertisement for your business,..if handled correctly.
This comes directly off of the Rip Off Report terms of agreement, buried safely under the title FEES. Phrases like, 'we offer our services..." 'database manipulation', 'for a processing fee' and 'fixing the problem' are startling to me, and should be to all reading this. Can we say 'RIP OFF'? That last line is a killer though...'fixing the problem...best form of advertisement...if handled correctly.'
REALLY-Who is conning whom here?
Word of advice to finger pointers: How many fingers are pointing back at you?
Best of luck to you all,
Future VP of DSMax (Because that's what I choose)
ps- Note to xjuice:
Get your facts right.
1) If you were in it for years and never got promoted, that was your fault, no one else's. Grow up. Be accountable. Try responsibility for a change.
2) You, you, you. What? You mean, me, me, me. The travel package was not illegitimate, you blew the promotion or did not understand how it works...is it good business to falsely advertise? Never. The client didn't contract us to give bad products; it's not advantageous for them. Understand business before you take part.
3) Managers always make money off of employees. Everywhere. Every business. They get paid more for having more responsibility, for having employees. This is how the market works. You don't understand that because you have never been there.
4) Not everyone does 1099s. There are divisions within that do receive W2s. Regardless, all independent contractors (within DSMax and outside) do 1099s. There's nothing wrong with that. It makes the independent contractor personally liable. That's a choice. Either you work for yourself, or you work for someone else.
5) DSMax like the mob. Wow. Apparently your understanding of the mob is limited to 'the Sopranos' and 'the Godfather'. Stop watching television. It rotted your brain. Tony Soprano never vacationed at Atlantis with about a bazillion other managers. Nor does he run numerous websites explaining exactly how he operates. And he sure as hell doesn't give lectures encouraging others to join.
Right xjuice. After your 'years' in the business, you really got it all.
Good points Mo. Thanks for enlightening us.
The Editor has to make money just like you do Mo. But Ed isn't hiring a girl to answer the phone all day in a response to a vague add description. He is not telling people next to nothing about a job and then sending them out to walk door to door for eight hours. Also, if he has staff that needs to be trained - I'm willing to bet he pays them himself instead of asking an impoverished empoyee to hand over $40 of his hard won earnings.
Anyway, I'm sure you have figured ways to get by the fees he charges. This yet another time when it pays for DS-max to escape liability and pass it off to one of its dummy corporations. Over 15,000 business's should be enough for you to deal with not paying fees at this site. Maybe too many of your reps are reading this and wizing up - which why you are worried about the fees - you who are so on your way to financial independance.
You guys all crack me up. Judging us by our attitudes. Like your some kind of holier than thou attitude God with final approval. Like your wearing a white lab coat and holding a clip board and are supervising the progress of reps to check on when they are 'ready' to be financialy independant and get an office to rip yet more people off.
Don't say those condo packages were legitamate when they were not.
Thanks for proving all of us right, MO, MO
your response and all of the responses from other managers of ds-max only prove the rest of us right... you all say the same brain-washed responses... definitely show cult-like behaviour... are trying to shut the rest of us up just because our 'opinion' is different... you say nothing constructived... only destructive with intent to further damage our self-esteem... i'm sorry your 'there'... but we aren't (lucky us)
DS-MAX (The One and Only)
Juice by all you fellow peddlers out there sticking up for DS-MAX.
I've been in this business for about six months now and trust me I have dealt with my fair share of damn negatives.(Try peddlin up here in -30 degree temps.) But I'm not a damn COW, like most of u disgruntled people who just... COULDN'T HACK IT. Yes the hours suck, the field pay isn't the greatest and there are a hell of alot of negatives. But after 6 months, what am i to quit? NO. I'm a F@#KING RHINO, I'll put my head down and CHARGE for my goals. And not because someone brainwashed me, into believing I can run my own business in less than a year. NO, because I know i will be an owner, I will earn my money, and I will become financially independent through the success of DS-MAX. For all you x employees I leave you with a simple quote:
'We do things today, that others won't,
so tomorrow we can enjoy things that others can't'
-Larry Tenebaum (EXEC VP, DS-MAX)
see we try and warn him...
We once had your enthusiasm. Your conviction. We were once locked in like you. Been there - Done that! Moved around the country with your outfit.
4 years in your outfit got me $16,000 in debt, no crew, no car(repo), no home and sales experience.
That is what I got for being open minded and trying something different. For believing in Dsmax. That is what your golden opportunity does to people. For closing the back door and not allowing failure to be an option. For ignoring our families and friends that saw what a scam it was.
The worst part is that Influenced people to stay in that business. I will regret that every day of life.
And you know what? My story is not very unique. There are many people that left much worse of than me.
The entire truth about parent company Ds-Max
I started to work for Ds-max in Barbados at their head office in 1994 as their bilingual administrative assistant. When I first started with the company I learnt how it came into existence and I thought that it was a really great success story.
I can tell you now that the founder went through the same things that every single owner present and past and every single distributor has had to go through.
First of all, there were two of them that started as I understood and one of their parents did not approve of their son selling crap on the street. One year later and a bank account filled with cash made the parents change their mind and 20 years later his mother is still the one at the helm of the finances.
Like everything in life the company has a good and a bad side. I choose to learn to the good side. Dsmax was actually my training ground in terms of motivation in life and hard work.
If any one applys their system in their everyday life they will realize that it is true. One should not hang out with negative people, no matter what you do in life. I am a christian and I can tell you that a lot of the principals I learnt there I have to apply in my christian walk.
If I am to be a good christian, I cannot hang out with people that talk negative about the things that I have to do.
After working in Barbados for Ds-max for four and a half years I ended up in what you would consider as the General managers's right hand man. Mind you I started out as bilingual office boy.
I took coffee for the boss, fax, filed and all the smaller office duties. Because I was a hard worker I excelled and was promoted in the office and given a raise within three months.
Six months later I was given a second raise and promotion and my colleagues were kind of bewildered. You could say that I was your typical career type, but it was'nt that, I was a very hard worker that found a system that rewards hard work. If I were at any other company I don't think that I would of been given the same opportunity, nor would I have been so well trained.
After working there I had learnt everything about business, includung: shipping, banking, office procedures, accounting(I was doing the accounts receivables), in essence I did a lot of things that people go to school to learn and what is funny is that those that had the education did not fit into the system because it was just to fast paste and completely different to what they teach in school.
The system was very very practical, very everyday, anyone could do it with a little hard work and dedication.
After leaving Ds-Max(for personal reasons) I remained in close contact with my boss and some of the owners. I started my own business with what I had learnt at Ds-Max and was quite happy to see that I was very efficient and comfortable at it. I lost a lot of money at it though. I had'nt learnt the system at that point because I was a simple employee. A lot of the things that are reported here on this site are very true, especially about them lying about what it is the person being hired will be doing.
After failing at business I got the odd jobs here and there and where ever I went people loved me for my efficiency. They could not believe the number of things I could do and speed at which they were done.
Employers would always say to me ' Most people just pretend they are busy, but what ever you put your hand to gets done' that was my personality, is was'nt learnt in Ds-max, but Ds-max gave me the chance to realize my fullest potential. I knew that they were a lot of things that I was good at but no one would give me the chance....you would always have to have some kind of qualification. In one of the reports that I read on this site the person mentioned that they don't screen the employees...thank God for that because that's exactly how I got hired, above all the others who I was told(by the manger hiring me)had degrees and spoke spanish as their mother tongue(I was applying for a bilingual job).
The manager said to me in that interview ' You sem like the man for the job....but it is not a glamarous position'. I was just happy to have a job and give it a shot, but he was right.
I later ended up in Venezuela where I got involved with Ds-max again but this time I was running the country as Country Administrator. I quite enjoyed it because now I was working for an owner in the business and I saw the business from the other side. I did'nt like a lot of things that I saw and the type of sacrifice that people had to make, especially when it came to family(but as the saying goes..' those that excell are those who did what no one else wanted to do).
I am a family man and I don't think I could make that kind of sacrifice(so I would never be an owner. What I did see, were all types of people from all walks of life managing and owning offices and that for me was one of the most beautiful things about their system.
There were Homosexuals as owners, peasants, women, men, young men and women(17yrs old) old men and old women, and the list goes on. It is not the kind of thing that you see in your typical company. Nothing about this company is typical, that's probably why it stands out. People say cult, but life is a cult(if you can say that) we are all in our little groups and we shut out the other groups. Some do it for money, some for love, some for religion, some for class, some for education, and some just for the heck of it. No single person is really an individual, no man is an island.
I worked for a year and some in Venezuela and had a bit of an experience there. The owner lived in Canada and another owner was sent to manage. I did not see eye to eye with the one that was sent and one would think that a simple employee would have no clout, but not so.
I representd the head office and there were things that I had to do and I did them, to make a long very long story short, I received a lot of support from some of the elite as they call them and this was very rear. No I am not a favourite in the company, they never gave me anything except my salary(no bonus, or benefits), that's just how they do business.
I learnt a lot more in Venezuela and after that year with them I went to Canada. You would think that I would be done with Ds-max by now(no I am not brainwashed!!), but there I found myself in the field, going door to door. I did pretty well, I became a leader after the first week, built a crew of about three or four people within my first two months and had a chance to see everything about this company. By the time I was in Canada I had already seen a lot of the meetings and heard about a lot of the strategy from the owner in Venezuela because I had to translate everything into spanish for him and often times I interpreted. I guess I excelled fast because of that.
What I did learn from the field was persistence and that what ever you do in your daily routine will determine your future success. I also learnt that the strategy Ds-max uses to motivate people is needed because beleive me, people need a lot of motivation in life. At church even though people believe in God and know that he is very powerful they still loose their faith(me counted as well).
Do you know how many times I lost my motivation with God...too many to mention and on too many occasions, and I will say this, if you are not motivated with God, there is nothing that he can do for you. Don't get me wrong, I am not comparing Ds-max to christianity, rather I am comparing it to life.
I agree that not everyone will make it in Ds-max(it is a massive challenge) and it is true,as a matter of fact only a small percentage do, but how different is that from life itself and everything we do. What percentage of our world is rich? and how many poor?(get the picture) how many hunger and how many enjoy a good meal? How many get 'good jobs?' how many have good marraiges?, how many kids have both parents in a happy family setting? I can tell you, VERY FEW!!!!!
Ds-max thought me just as God first thought me, you have got to make a choice, stick with it and do what no one else wants to do because you must carry your own cross(sacrifice).
I thank Ds-max for the opportunity they gave me as an individual, cult or not, right or not, good or not.
Rip-off? Cult? Here is some truth
Reading all the reports I've seen a great deal of negativity towards my business. I'm an owner in the Quincy DC Advertising office and honestly it is down right dispicable the way people can exagerate things.
Am I a part of a pyramid scheme? Well yes, but its no different than corporate America. The people at the top make money off the people below them. Everyone is expendable just like in any company.
Is there sexual harrassment? Not anymore than anywhere else. Girls who make it our business have thick skin and know how to play ball. The ones that don't weren't cut out for the rough-neck world of business anyway.
Is Cydcor a cult? Not in the least! We're an organized well managed group that uses chants and sayings to boost morale. Some people believe in our system and other's don't. Those that don't, drop out because they are weak in the mind.
Do we brainwash people? Of course not. Some people have the ability to take control of their thoughts and actions. We cultivate that ability through the training program and at the end of the assembly line, out pops a hard-hitting, money making machine that can find other like minded people to procrate our purpose... profit!
Are people's lives ruined? Sometimes, but those people weren't going to make it anyway, and the fact they couldn't learn a simple system and educate only five other people is the proof. How much do you expect to earn if you can't even do 20% of the work of a school teacher earning 20k a year? Its a matter of social Darwinism. There are no free rides in the world. Life sucks. We're all dealt from the same deck. Those who want to cry about the rules are better off dead.
Do we mislead people? Hello morons, its called advertsing not charity work. Marketing, whether it be multi-level or super bowl ads, is about creating an image and having people buy into it. At the beginning you start out selling people on the idea of the product or the service. Once you've proven that you can do that with perfect strangers, we promote you. As a leader you not only sell people goods but also sell people on the idea of our company, the better you are at that, the quicker you get out of the trenches. Teach five people to spread and you're promoted to management. Now your job is to sell your trainees on there opportunity each an everyday. The better you sell them on the dream, the better you make out, and them too. Now the cash starts rolling in. You start promoting out other managers to do what you. Do that 5 times and you're a regional director. Do it a couple more times and you become a vice president overseeing a campaign.
Truth is never black and white. We tell our workers what they need to hear. That's how we get them to make it through. Manipulation, lying, these are words that have a negative conotation. Is it a lie w