• Report: #366116
Complaint Review:

Roz Robinson, Chris Dove, Doves Miniature Horses, R&R Miniatures

  • Submitted: Sat, August 23, 2008
  • Updated: Sat, September 27, 2008

  • Reported By:BlackCanyon City Arizona
Roz Robinson, Chris Dove, Doves Miniature Horses, R&R Miniatures
miniappys.com/MiniatureHorse.html Ranchester And Worland, Wyoming U.S.A.

Roz Robinson, Chris Dove, Doves Miniature Horses, R&R Miniatures Failed to provide promised refund on mare sold as broodmare that has medical problems Ranchester And Worland Wyoming

*Consumer Suggestion: Dear Omht

*Author of original report: Resolve the issue Roz

*Consumer Comment: Shedding some light

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: I want to set the record straight on the mini mare

*Consumer Comment: disagreements regarding R&R Miniatures credibility

*Author of original report: Amount of refund owed

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I purchased a four year old Miniature mare named Rozs Just N Time for a broodmare through Chris Dove at Dove's Miniature Horses (aka DMH) in Worland WY, from an ad she ran on an internet sales board. She had several horses listed in the ad, some of which are owned by Roz Robinson of R&R Miniatures of Ranchester WY. The mare was advertised as a bred mare.

I did not have her preg checked prior to purchase because if she was not pregnant, I would breed her to one of my own stallions. When the mare arrived in mid March 2008, not only was the mare not pregnant, but my vet advised will not settle due to a very low thyroid imbalance. The mare is grossly overweight due to this also, and sometimes very skittish. She does not get along well with other horses. When I advised both Roz & Chris of the problem about a month after the mare arrived here, Roz told me that if she had known, would not have sold her and in April, told me she would take the mare back. The lab results and a summary from my vet were forwarded to them both, with Roz claiming that she wanted her vet to review it. I do not believe that Roz presented ANY of this information to her vet (maybe they already knew?) as when asked via email several times, she has just refused to answer.

When Roz said she would take the mare back, I assumed she would send me contact me about getting the mare back to her and sending the refund, and when I heard nothing for a few days, I emailed again to and asked what was going on with it, and it started a two month cycle of either being ignored completely or getting a run around in various ways - trying to blame the non pregnancy on the young stallion that the mare had been out with all summer, (Even after she was provided with my vet's summary and the lab report on the mare) -then tried to trade the mare back for that stallion (I already have 2, and only 4 mares, and certainly would not want a stallion that she implied might have fertility issues) and both ladies knew I was looking for a broodmare from the moment I inquired on Chris's ad, not another stallion. They also then offered to maybe refund a bit of money- though they never said how much, so I could keep the mare, buy the medicine she needs. I sent a long list of many reasons why I did not want the mare, and stated I would just settle for the refund please.

Roz again told me June 9th that she would send a refund and asked how I wanted it sent. She mentioned 'a friend' would be in NM in a few days and perhaps he could bring the mare home from there. I gave her the information for sending the refund, and had questions about 'the friend' and when, where and what info would need to be on the health papers required through my vet to get her home, etc.....

Several more days passed and no refund arrived, nor did she respond to my 3 emails that week on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. By Friday I was upset, as I cannot make arrangements to get her to NM in two days, nor can I have my vet out that quickly to get the paperwork done. My Friday email was asking that someone let me know what the heck was going on, and that due to her not responding, how was I supposed to get arrangements done on my end... Her response was that she decided to cancel the trip with 'the friend'.

I was NOT happy by this time and in mid to late June, I presented her with a deadline and a very angry email questioning her reputation and whether or not she intended to stand behind her word and at this point, demanded that she repurchase the mare as she said she would.

She now refused to send a refund and they have decided that I should pay the ENTIRE cost of shipping the mare back to her first and then she will send a refund. This was not the agreement nor was anything of the kind discussed for two months until I finally put my foot down and demanded that this issue, that was dragging out for weeks, be taken care of. I advised in my deadline email that if Roz did not repurchase the mare as she stated she would, I was going to start filing complaints regarding their bad business practices.

When a refund did not arrive and she failed to work on shipping arrangements with me, I waited another two days, and then began filing complaints, including one to the Admin of the sales board Chris had posted the ad on. When Roz and Chris were questioned about it from the Admin, they both told nothing but flat out lies regarding the entire issue from beginning to end.

I have kept EVERY piece of documentation on this deal from my first inquiry to Chris from her ad, and was able to prove it was nothing but lies- resulting in their being banned from using this very popular internet sales board.

Chris Dove ran the ad, then denied she did and denied that she had ANYthing to do with the sale at all, though I strictly dealt with her ONLY through the first several WEEKS after my initial inquiry, including her fowarding Roz's banking info to me for full payment of the mare BEFORE she was allowed to leave Wyoming.

Roz, the owner, admitted to me that she had had another mare that had a thyroid imbalance, so she is familiar with the problem and I believe by this mare's weight & occasional skittishness, this is why the mare was sold, though she claims she was unaware she was a 'thyroid mare'. Whether she did or not, she advised twice that she would take the mare back and refund my purchase price, and they have failed to do so.

Chris now declares, after the complaints were filed, that she was not an agent for Roz's horses, yet signed the health certificate and other vet papers as agent for Roz Robinson's horses. The brand inspection papers also had Roz's name forged on them by Chris, as they were not signed until the mare arrived in New Mexico and Roz did not accompany Chris on the trip to deliver the mare that far.

These ladies are liars, misrepresent what they are selling, and do not stand behind what they breed or sell. Nor do they stand behind their word at all. DO NOT BUY FROM THESE PEOPLE!!!

Chris even 'suggested' at one point that the mare would make a great 'driving horse' with loud color to advertise a farm with in parades and all. With this mare's occasional thyroid tantrums, it would be suicide to attempt to put her in harness, and I did not pay this kind of money for a PET. The implied warranty was that she was a VIABLE BROODMARE, which is what I was led to believe I was buying.

Bottom line is, Chris Dove ran an ad on a site she was not supposed to be advertising anything on but her OWN horses- those are the rules. She was not listed as a registered agent with the Admin on that site. The Admin of that site told them both to take care of the situation and get it straightened out. Chris sent back an email full of several lies, which I was able to prove, with all the correspondance I have kept. Her email to the Admin basicly included a 'shame on me' for buying the mare without making a trip to WY to see the mare, and implied that if I was stupid enough to buy from them without doing that... oh well.

I did not ask for a refund on the shipping I paid from NM to here, nor did I ask for money back for the vet work done or the feed this mare has consumed while standing here. In early August I sent them both an email to advise that effective immediately, a monthly board fee was going to begin accruing and also confronted them about their flat out lies to the sales board Admin, and let them know I have ALL documentation regarding the issue, so do not continue to lie about it all. I asked again for the mare's purchase price to be refunded immediately. Of course I have gotten no response from either of them AND NO MONEY.

It concerns me to know that these two ladies are also working with 4-H children to teach then sportsmanship, honesty and integrity!!!

BlackCanyon City, Arizona

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 08/23/2008 11:57 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/roz-robinson-chris-dove-doves-miniature-horses-rr-miniatures/ranchester-and-worland-wyoming/roz-robinson-chris-dove-doves-miniature-horses-rr-miniatures-failed-to-provide-promise-366116. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Suggestion

Dear Omht

AUTHOR: Hgf - (U.S.A.)

Chris agreed to deliver the horse to NM for free from the beginning of the entire deal. It was NOT out of her way as she delivered others to the SAME address to be dropped off there- who are you trying to kid? She even asked if I could possibly board one HERE until a perpective buyer from CA could pick it up, if the sale went through, and I gladly said yes, but the lady didnt buy the horse I guess as I heard nothing further about it.

I bet you have not seen ALL the emails, as there are close to 200 of them.

Funny you admit that Chris was the go between on this entire sale. Did they tell you she ran the ad illegally on the board? Did she tell you she then lied about even running the ad at all?

Did she also tell you that she denied EVER talking to me about the sale of this mare and that I dealt with Roz and Roz ONLY and she never discussed ANY of it with me?

Did she tell you that I got the mare delivered all the way to AZ for FREE by a friend in NM that brought her here for nothing? These are just a FEW of the lies she told the Administrator of the sales board, when I complained after waiting for a refund for TWO months. The original deal said NOTHING about my being responsible for the entire shipping home, and THEN I would get a refund.

So if you would like to see ALL the facts, please contact me directly- as I have ALL the documentation!!!
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#2 Author of original report

Resolve the issue Roz

AUTHOR: Hgf - (U.S.A.)


The fact that the mare was not pregnant did not bother me- as I said to you that I have two stallions here to breed her to. The problem is that this mare was purchased as a healthy broodmare, YOU told me twice, once in April and again in June, that you would refund the money, and you never did.

You made a feeble attempt at acting like you were going to share the shipping home, since it was shared coming down here (though you and Chris told peole otherwise), but after telling me a 'friend' was going to NM and might be able to haul her back from there, you gave me no name, contact info, date, etc.. and after emailing you THREE times that week, since time was running out and it was extremely short notice, you just again didnt bother to respond to any of my emails until it was beyond too late and then just stated that you cancelled the trip.

After getting a run around for a good two months after you first told me you would purchase the mare back, you bet I got angry and questioned your integrity!!! I recieved no responses to many many emails sent asking for information.

But I am sure you left those out of what you showed your friends, and only showed them the later ones when I was quite upset with the whole mess that had at that time been going on for months.

The lies from Chris were beyond ridiculous and yes, 'someone' sent another email to the Admin of the sales board you are both banned from, saying how nice she was and that she made a mistake in advertising your horses illegally there and wouldnt do it again- funny this was after she vehemently denied running the ad. Her long list of flat out lies was laughable, and I certainly question who the 'author' of the last email to the Admin was, but that is just my opinion.

You agreed to repurchase the mare. You even asked how and where to send the refund. Nothing came. The 'trip' made by your 'friend' came and went with no response from you til it was too late. After several months and losing my patience, and I put my foot down and demanded this issue be taken care of, you then decided that I alone was going to be responsible for her entire shipment back to you 'because I decided I didnt want her'. BECAUSE SHE IS NOT WHAT SHE WAS ADVERTISED AS!!!

I sent you a long list as to WHY I did not want the mare- twice. Is it necessary to print it here again? Yes, you offered me money back so I could 'afford the meds' which are not expensive, but this mare has to be on meds THE REST OF HER LIFE- what do you think that is going to add up to? In addition to the bloodwork that MUST BE DONE REGULARLY by the vet to make sure the doses are staying correct. How much do you think THAT will cost for the rest of her life?!!? You certainly never quoted an amount you would send back (six months worth of meds?) And it is NOT certain whether it is hereditary or not, but CAN be. There is NO guarantee that even on the meds, that this mare will EVER carry a foal. They are NOT reliable.

Yep, you offered a stallion in trade for the mare, knowing I was looking to purchase a BROODMARE and that I already have two stallions, and only four mares, so why would I want/need another stallion? I commented that he was pretty, NOT ever commented that I wanted to buy him!! And YOU implied that it was due to HIS possible infertility problem that this mare was not pregnant, even AFTER I sent you the lab results on this mare- and you wanted to trade her for another horse that YOU claim didnt settle the mare?

Resolve the issue- send back the purchase price of this mare and the $100.00 you now owe me for two months board that began in early August, and help get this mare back to WY. I AM NOT THE ONE WHO SOLD THE HORSE WITH HEALTH PROBLEMS.

Oh, you forgot to mention that your signature on the WY brand papers was forged by someone else, and that after Chris swore she was not your agent, she certainly signed the health papers from the vet as your agent. Why is that?

Why would anyone ever think that after the lies that have been told to me and especially to others about this situation, that I would trust anyone to send me a refund AFTER I have sent the mare back- especially when they had already said they would send it twice, but never did?

By the way, just an update- I have even tried to sell the mare on the internet- nobody wants her due to the thyroid problem and not wanting to 'take a chance' that she will EVER carry a foal. Those are the responses that I got from my ad! Roz makes it sound like simple medication will just cure the whole thing.

For your friends who think you are 'so nice'- she may be, but not when it comes to dealing in horses and standing behind her word and what she sells!! And I will gladly send ALL the documentation to anyone who wants to see ALL the FACTS- feel free to contact me any time.

All I asked for was a simple refund on a mare I purchased as a breedable mare, and all I got were insults, ignored, and lies.

So Roz, it's up to you to make this right.... it could have all been handled very simply and easily- but you and Chris chose to go another route.....
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#3 Consumer Comment

Shedding some light

AUTHOR: Ohmt - (U.S.A.)

I'd like to start off by saying that this lady has gone completely overboard. I have read the e-mails exchanged and Roz has tried to be civil while the purchaser of the mare has flat out attacked and verbally abused both Roz and Chris Dove. The e-mails were absolutely awful and the buyer actually tried to pit the two friends against each other more than once. By the way, Chris Dove should not even be involved in the issue. She advertised Roz's mare on a saleboard and then helped pass information back and forth when the buyer sent inquiries. She was also the one that delivered the mare for free to New Mexico which was completely out of her way (she was going to Flordia...from Wyoming!). Chris has decided to step away from the ordeal as all that the purchaser has done is attack and slander her. Chris is one of the most genuine and caring persons I have ever met. She used to be involved in special olympics and now helps run a 4-h program...and she's always been there for me when I've needed help. Does this sound like a rip off artist to you? She was not the seller--not the agent--just someone trying to help out a friend.
There has been alot of conversations that have been taken completely taken out of context by this lady. Sounds to me like she's just trying to keep the fire burning instead of actually trying to resolve the situation. Roz should not be held responsible for shipping. Shipping is the buyer's responsibility--Roz offered to refund the money on the mare if the buyer would only comply which she would not.
I would also like to add that I happen to own two low thyroid mares. I actually don't have to give them medication, my vet and I have comprised a diet that helps keep their weight down and their thyroid level stable. Both mares gave me fillies this year. Funny, since according to the buyer of Roz's mare, low thyroid mares aren't suitable as broodmares. Oh, and both have never passed the problem on to their offspring and I've had 6 from one and 8 from the other.
Sad that this lady couldn't have tried to resolve the problem in a civil manner. Roz and chris are two of the most genuine people I know. I would buy a horse from them anyday.
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#4 REBUTTAL Individual responds

I want to set the record straight on the mini mare

AUTHOR: R&r - (U.S.A.)

I sold the mare to Laurie at Heather Glen Farms as being bred to my 2 yr old stallion. I did tell her that the mare was not preg tested, and this was her first breeding, and had not previously foaled (so obviously was not a proven broodmare). I also told her the mare was skittish, and not friendly with strangers.
That was all okay with her. She stated that the mare was so sweet, followed her around, though was afraid of the pigs. Understandably. When the mare did not foal, that was alright too, because she could breed her to her stallion. But, when the mare was tested and found to be low on one of 2 thyroid test, everything changed. I absolutely did not know the mare to be in this condition, which, according to CSU, can still be fertile.

Laurie says the mare cannot ever carry a foal, and the condition is hereditary. This is not a fact, just do research on it. I offered to refund her money if she would return the mare, offered her a discount on the mare if she wanted to give her thyroid meds (which are very reasonable) or trade her for a 2 year old stallion she had mentioned she really liked. (She stated in the report that I tried to trade for a stallion with fertility problems!) You breeders out there know that breeding a 2 year old is not always going to get you a foal, sometimes, but not always. This mare is the only one that was with this stallion. She refused all. She states that I keep saying that I will refund, but have not done it. All she had to do is return the mare, and I would have refunded. This is not an unreasonable request. T

he mare was delivered to New Mexico from Wyoming at no charge to her, which is also not the norm. The buyer always has to pay shipping. She has gone way overboard to ruin my reputation for no reason. I have never had ANYONE complain about me and I don't think I am unreasonable. I just expect to at least get the mare back before I refund. After she has spent so much time writing to AMHR,AMHA,Falabella, National 4H club, etc, etc, just to complain about me, I am now not going to take the mare back. She bought the mare sight unseen, with no guarantees, and I did everything I could do to please her just to get slapped. The papers were all signed over to her, so I guess now
she owns her. This could have been so easily solved, but she opted to try to
ruin me instead of just returning the mare. Too late now.
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#5 Consumer Comment

disagreements regarding R&R Miniatures credibility

AUTHOR: N.miles - (U.S.A.)

I have known Roz Robinson for many years and have never known her to misrepresent any horse she has sold, or mislead any buyer. She has always been known to be honest and straight forward with any horse she has sold. If the buyer has any questions about the horses condition, pregnancy, or temperament, she has always been willing to comply with any request. If this horse has a thyroid problem, I can guarantee that Roz didn't know about it when the horse left her premises. I know that she has raised horses and been a 4H leader for many years without any question of her integrity or honesty. If I were to buy a mare sight unseen, and was told she might possibly be pregnant, I would ask for a preg test if it really mattered. I would also insist on a blood screen to see if the mare had any
medical conditions present. I was born and raised on a horse ranch, and have dealt with horse people and breeders my whole life. We were always very willing to comply with any requests the buyer asked and never had a problem such as this.
If we sold a horse and the buyer did not want the horse after a reasonable time, it had to be returned to the ranch and the buyer would be reimbursed. The usual horsemans deal. I can't believe she didn't just return the horse and get her money back, would have been a lot simpler.
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#6 Author of original report

Amount of refund owed

AUTHOR: Hgf - (U.S.A.)

I forgot to note in my original post that I paid $3000.00 for this mare that would sell as a 'thyroid mare' on the market at a pet price of about $300 to $500.00

At this writing, I am currently owed $3050.00... the repurchase price by the seller of the $3000.00 and the August board of $50.00 a month that they were notified was effective immediately on August 9, 2008.

I have over 220 emails of 'conversation' regarding the purchase, etc.. of this mare - have kept everything. In running an ad this week to even see if I could attempt to find someone who would want this mare, I have only had one email and that was in sympathy for my situation, not someone who would want her.

Thank you for this site, as I truly believe these two belong on this RIP OFF report!!
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