St. Petersburg Times Forum ripoff ADA Discrimination discriminating against the disabled Tampa Florida

After the frustration of being discriminated against, the next major frustration was how long it took for me to be put in touch with the person that is actually in a position of authority. I contacted Holly Brown on 4/11/06 when she immediately told me that my complaint would be forwarded to the appropriate departments. Nearly a week later, 4/17/06, I emailed Ms. Brown again due to her lack of response. She told me she would check on the status and on 4/27/06, I still had heard nothing. I emailed her again and told her that I wanted the name of the dept. that handles ADA complaints. I received no response that day, but did receive an "out of office reply" stating that she was out of the office and would be back May 1. I still heard nothing and on 5/8/06 I sent her an email stating that this was a ridiculous amount of time to have to wait for a complaint to be resolved at which time she finally (one month later) sent me Matt Huelsman's email address and told me that he handles ADA complaints. (mhuelsman@sptimesforum.com.)

Two days later, I got an email from Colleen Mascherin, the Guest Services Coordinator. I explained that my problem was the following:

My husband and I attended Delirium at your venue Sunday, April 9. My husband is in a wheelchair and isn't capable of sitting in just any section,as I'm sure you can gather. When we bought the tickets, we were told that they were in a very good section, we'd have a great view of the show, and the seats were in an accessible section. The tickets we bought were $91.25. Because of the price of the tickets, we believed him. We have attended many Cirque de Soleil shows and everytime we have paid this amount, our seats have been floor level or we at least had a GREAT view of the show.

When we were directed to our seats (Section 313, seats 9 and 10) we were shocked, to say the least. The seats were terrible, we couldn't see the show and after speaking with the people seated in front of us and finding out that they had paid somewhere in the vicinity of $70, we were quite upset. It was quite embarassing to us and everyone on our row (they were all disabled as well) to have everyone in front of us know that we had been ripped off.

We spoke with an usher and they explained that these seats are what the Forum calls "Preferred Seating" and that the price we were given was based on that preferred seating. We were told that the reason we didn't get "handicapped prices" (prices equivalent to the section we were sitting in) was because the handicapped tickets sold out before we purchased ours. We were told that we would have been put in those sections if we had been able to buy in advance. We spoke to all of the disabled people in our row and they had all run into the same problem. We were all very upset. The lady next to me had specified at the time of ordering that she is vision impaired and they still stuck her up there with us and over charged her like the rest of us. We didn't need or want preferred seating. We needed a place where a wheelchair could be placed comfortably or where someone with a disability could easily and comfortably enjoy the show. If there were no "accessible" seats available, they shouldn't have been available for sale.

The laws under ADA are quite specific. Whether the handicapped seats sell out or not, we still are to be provided service and pricing equal to that of an able bodied person if you sell us tickets. We are not to be discriminated against because of disability. If this had been a sold out show and all of the handicapped seats were unavailable, we should've been told that they had no more seating available for the disabled; not over charge us and have us show up to realize that we are basically in the nosebleed section for what people just above the floor seats paid. Everyone on our row should've been charged $71.25 - not 91.25. There was nothing preferred about it. We didn't see a thing and that's what the able bodied people in front of us paid for the same section.

Our confirmation number for the tickets, if you need it, is XX-XXXX00 XXO and they are under my husband's name, Michael.

At any rate, we understand that mistakes happen and perhaps this is merely an over sight and maybe the ushers were misinformed. We would simply like
to have the difference in the cost of tickets for that section refunded to us, about $40.00. We just like to get what we pay for and with all of the day to day difficulties that comes with a disability, you don't like to feel like you're being taken advantage of, too.

Colleen's response:

Just so you know, with the information you gave us we were able to look up the exact price of your seats, the location of your seats, how you purchased them, and through which company they were purchased. You bought your tickets through Ticketmaster so we have no control over what they told you about the tickets and where you would be sitting. As for you speaking with
our usher about preferred seating and/or disabled prices I do apologize for the information he gave you. We had disabled seating available at all price levels at the time of the show.

The seats you sat in were the correct price. As the rows moved away from the stage, the price dropped. It just so happens that the section you were sitting in was sold half and half (for the non-disabled seating). Half of the tickets were what you paid and half were the cheaper price. If you had wanted disabled seating at the lower price, you would have been moved a section over which would have provided a worse view. {Does anyone else think this paragraph makes any sense? Half of these seats were sold at disabled prices and half not, but all of us were disabled and still charged $20 more per ticket for that section? And if we wanted to pay less, we could move to a bad seat? Is she missing the point or what? WE ALREADY HAD BAD SEATS AND WERE OVERCHARGED FOR THEM.}

I am sorry you were not happy with the seats, but unfortunately you were in the correct spot. We do recommend all patrons to purchase from our McDonald's Box Office to avoid all this from happening. {I guess she ignored that WE ARE NEW TO THE AREA part. WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT A McDONALD'S BOX OFFICE EXISTED.} I wish I could bring you back to another Cirque show and I wish I could refund your ticket, but unfortunately at this time, or at any other, we are unable to do either.
What I can do is offer to work with you and your husband to bring you back to a comparable show that you both would like to see in the future. Please let me know if this interests you. I am availiable if you have any other questions or concerns, so please email (or call) me as soon as possible.

SHE CLEARLY KNEW THAT SHE WAS IN VIOLATION OF ADA OR SHE WOULDN'T EVEN BE OFFERING THE TICKETS. SHE WAS JUST PASSING THE BUCK OR TOO SIMPLE-MINDED TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT
OF DISCRIMINATION.

My response to her:

Ok. I'd like to get clarification here. Are you saying that half of the section we were sitting in was sold at a lesser rate and half was not? Why would that be? Disabled patrons need chaperones and the chaperones should not be charged any more than the disabled because many of the disabled cannot attend shows/events without them. Perhaps that's not what you meant.

Besides, neither Michael nor myself received pricing comparable to the section in which we were seated. That's my big issue here. I don't care what handicapped seating was available because we weren't even told about
it, anyway. We were charged too much for our seats. Our seats were comparable to seats that cost only $70 or so and that is all we should've paid.

On the other hand, if you're saying that half of the seating was sold at a lesser price and then they continued to sell the rest of the seats to disabled patrons at the regular price, that's completely unethical. Would you please explain to me why an able bodied person would pay more for the seats we had than the people in the section in front of them with better seats would or even pay the same price for these seats as floor seats and still opt for this section? I can't imagine why anyone would want to pay floor seat prices for the horrible seats we had. Maybe it's just that Cirque made a poor decision when it chose this venue. I must say that I didn't think it was the best set up for a cirque show.

Also, you are saying that you'd have gladly put us in seats that were "designated" handicapped seating with a worse view for the price that the people in front of us in our section paid? That makes no sense to me.
That's like punishing us for having disabilities. That's the problem we're facing already. We were sitting in a section with a view that was worse than that of people in front of us that paid less than us, but because you charge able bodied people more for our seats, your company thinks it's ok to charge these rates for the disabled? While our section may not be "designated" as handicapped seating, that is the only reason we were placed there. Also, we told ticket master that we needed handicapped seating. Are you saying that where we sat was not handicapped seating? It was the only
place that worked except for the bad seats that you speak of. Well, we were already in bad seats. Whether or not there were worse ones is irrelevant to me. Had we known how bad they would be, we never would have bought them. We'd have flown to another city to see the show. I'm confused about all of this.

I appreciate your offer of free tickets to another show. I'd accept the offer, except that there are no shows coming to your venue between now and October that interest us. We don't like country music(Faith Hill/Dixie Chicks); we don't have children (Sesame Street); we don't particularly like sports (Sumo, Hockey, Martial Arts); we don't like 80's hair bands (Poison and Cinderella); and we aren't big fans of TV, let alone reality TV (American Idol). Michael and I are adrenaline junkies (we skydive, hanglide, white-water raft, bungee jump, scuba dive, travel, etc) and we really like theatrical and cultural performances, Cirque being our favorite, of course. So, perhaps you can see why none of those shows interest us. I'm quite disappointed that nothing that interests us will be at your venue.

So, I don't know how to resolve it. I just know that it's unacceptable to do nothing at all. I understand that you can't be held responsible for what Ticketmaster tells us, but you can control the prices of your seating and if the St. Pete Times Forum can't provide service without discrimination against the disabled, the disabled should be told that the disabled seats are sold out or be honest about where the only "designated" disabled seats are. As I said, we wouldn't have bought these seats and we wouldn't have bought the worse seats that you speak of.

Colleen's response:

You paid the appropriate ticket price for the seats you purchased. If you were not properly informed of where those seats were located, then you must contact Tickemaster with that issue as that is the medium through which you purchased your tickets.{OK, Maybe so...but...}

It was determined by the promoter how the seats would be sold and at what price levels. The disabled sections were priced as closely as possible to the non-disabled seating sections. Because we don't have disabled seating in every section, we had to commodate the pricing as fairly as possible. {AS FAIRLY AS POSSIBLE??? WHAT ABOUT JUST FAIRLY????} If you feel this is discriminatory then I'm sorry, but you should know that we hold more handicap accessible seating than what is required by ADA regulations. {SO WE SHOULD HAVE TO PAY MORE FOR TERRIBLE SEATS BECAUSE THEY DON'T CARE IF WE HAVE TO PAY MORE OR IF THEY DISCRIMINATE AGAINST US AS LONG AS THEY JUST FOLLOW ADA LAW AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE. THEY CARE ABOUT THE LAW, NOT THEIR PATRONS.}

Now, because you were disappointed in the layout of the arena, and because our usher gave you inappropriate information, my offer still stands to bring you and your husband back to attend a future event at our venue. I cannot refund the money you paid for your tickets. I cannot be any clearer through email. If you are still unsure of our stance on this situation, please call me at your convenience. My office number is 813.301.6756.

SHE STILL NEVER EXPLAINED WHY AN ABLE BODIED PERSON WOULD PAY MORE MONEY FOR THE SEATS WE HAD, DID YOU NOTICE?

FEEL FREE TO CALL HER AND TELL HER HOW AWFUL YOU THINK IT IS THAT SHE TREATED THE DISABLED THIS WAY AND HOW SHE EXCUSES HER COMPANY'S ABUSE OF THEM BY SAYING, "WELL, AT LEAST WE ARE ADA COMPLIANT."

Makes me sick. We are moving from this area next month and I don't care if Fort de Soto and Clearwater Beach are considered 2 of the most beautiful beaches in America, you couldn't pay me enough to come back to Tampa or St. Pete and maybe not even Florida, for that matter. That's how bad this experience and this mindset throughout this area has affected us. If you have a disability, consider moving somewhere else because the discrimination here is rampant.

Angela
Pinellas Park, Florida
U.S.A.