Tom Dwyer Tom Dwyer bought new parts from us and then said they were used and wants money back. Huntley, Illinois

   This particular report posted by Burt Byers is in response to the one I posted on this site on the 26th of February.  I posted that report after 1.) Tom Byers (Burt Byers son) would not return any of my voice messages left on his phone, 2.) Tom Byers said in written postings that he would delete any e-mail I sent to him, 3.) Tom Byers told me not to contact his Dad (Burt Byers) which is only person I have talked to during this transaction, 5.) Tom Byers posted false information about me on another website and finally 6.) Tom/Burt Byers would not return my money after I returned what they sent to me.

   My original report is located here:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-parts/tom-byers/tom-byers-sold-me-used-parts-cf4ee.htm

   All I have been trying to do since the end of last racing season is to buy parts for the up-coming season. Since these valve springs are relatively expensive, I have been searching around the Internet for a couple of extra sets at good prices to get me through the next racing year. Most places such as Summit Racing Equipment and Jegs are selling these for $439. When you group these into a bigger buy from them, the shipping cost becomes reasonable. Since I first started this transaction, Summit had put this on sale for $390 and now they are back up to $439. In retrospect after this transaction, I should have bought from them. Now I will buy them from Summit as I still need springs for this season.

   In response to what Burt Byers wrote in this report:

Tom Dwyer paid us $300 for a new set of Manley springs (P/N 221448-16). After we shipped them to him he said they were used and contacted me to send them back. I said "OK, if they are not what you wanted, send them back and we'll refund your money." He sent them back and also demanded we refund his shipping costs for returning them.

   The first sentence is correct in that I did pay $300 for a NEW set of springs that were advertised as new but what was shipped was used and not even the same part.

   I did contact Burt Byers as he is the person who sent me the used springs. I called him as soon as I opened the box and found that they sent me used springs. Burt Byers told me he did not pack the box but that his son, Tom Byers did. He said he was just mailing them. I asked him to ask his son if he had possibly put the wrong springs in this box and for him to check around. He said he would contact his son and that they would get back to me. This was on Friday the 12th of February around 6:00 PM.

   I waited until Sunday the 14th of February for a call back and since I had not received one, I called Tom Byers phone at 6:30 PM. He did not answer and I left a message for him to call me. I called Tom Byers number again at 12:15 PM on Monday the 15th because I had received no return call from either of them. I left another message on Tom Byers phone and asked him to call me. About an hour later I received a call from Burt Byers.

   Burt Byers did not say if they are not what you wanted to me. I told him that these were used and that they needed to ship me the new springs as that is what I paid for. Burt Byers said to send them back and they would refund my money. (I still have not had my money returned to me.)

   After that conversation, I packed up the exact springs that they had sent me in the same box they shipped to me and took it to the UPS store for return shipping. I shipped them off at a cost of $13.44 to me. I did not talk about shipping costs to Burt Byers during our phone conversation. The shipping conversation was via the website mailing system between Tom Byers and me. That dialog is captured on the original report. Yes, when someone ships me the wrong parts, I do not expect to pay the return shipping as they are at fault.

   "The problem with this transaction was he kept the new springs and sent some old used ones back and then demanded his money back. Unfortunately for Mr. Dwyer we had taken pics and measurements before we shipped the new springs to him and what he shipped back was not what we sent him."

   This first sentence is from a person who has been tricked by his own son into believing that or is an outright lie. Why would someone take pictures of springs after they were paid the money and the money order had cleared? If someone was trying to scam, why would they send money in the first place? I have no new springs and no new springs were sent by Tom and/or Burt Byers to me. The only springs I received from them were the used springs that were not even the same part as advertised. These are the same springs I sent back to Burt Byers. Pictures can be taken of any set of springs with any measurements but that does not prove that is what they sent me. What I shipped back to Burt Byers was exactly what I received from Tom and/or Burt Byers. At this time I did not demand my money back as I was still waiting for them to find the correct springs and ship them to me; I was giving them the benefit of doubt. All I wanted was the new set of springs that I had paid for.

"The deal with Dwyer was hinky from the start. He first wanted to buy the new springs and two sets of used springs but didn't like our price for shipping (we don't control UPS). He stopped contacting us for awhile and then came back. While he was gone he bought a set of springs from a guy in Minnesota and when that guy sent them he told him they were not what he wanted and sent them back and got his money back."

   No hinky here. Tom and Burt Byers advertised three sets of Manley 221448-16 springs, one new and two used. They wanted $350 for the new set and $50 for each used set. I asked Tom Byers via e-mail what the spring pressures were on the used ones and he said he didnt know as his engine builder changes them out for them. With used springs, they could be junk if you dont know what the pressure are. Since he could not give me accurate information, I offered him $400 for all three sets shipped. At first he came back and said yes and he said he would get me a shipping cost. I wrote back and said that my offer was with shipping included. He said he would check to see how much shipping was and would get back to me. He sent back that shipping would be $34 but he would ship them for $25 for a total cost of $425. Since I really did not know the condition of the used springs and a new set was about the same as what he was quoting me for the three with shipping, I passed and looked elsewhere. Ive shipped many sets of valve springs and this shipping quote of $34 was out of line. If you ship each of the three by itself with insurance, maybe but not when you bundle them in one box and send UPS. I felt he was trying to gouge me on shipping. We had not talked about insurance; he on his own threw that on. I had a bad feeling about doing business with them after all of this. On top of that, there were no pictures posted of any of the parts listed, never a good sign for the customer.

   After that, I found another set of Manley 221448-16 springs on the Internet. The fellow wanted $50 plus $10 shipping. They were used and he also did not know the pressure but I took a chance and bought the set. After I received them, I measured them on my spring tester. They were no better that the set of springs I had on my engine or the extra set of used springs that came with my engine when I bought it. They were however the correct spring even though used. Live and learn.

   Because that didnt work out, I posted on another website that I was looking for a set of these springs and a fellow racer that I had bought from before sent me a message that he had a set. He is the person from Minnesota that Burt Byers refers to as I told him this story on the phone and well as telling his son, Tom Byers in written communications. Anyhow, we agreed to a price of $300 including shipping and since I was paying with PayPal, I agreed to pay for the 3% fee that PayPal charges. When I received the springs, they were in the correct part number box but they were not the right springs. They were new but a different part number. I called the manufacturer to verify and sure enough they were wrong. When I called the seller back, he told me that these came off an engine that he bought as he needed different springs to match his camshaft and that his engine builder had changed them out. He said no problem, apologized to me and refunded my money plus the money to ship them back to him. An honest mistake backed up by honest and honorable dealing with the situation.

   Because this transaction didnt work out, I went back to Tom Byers and offered him the same price that was negotiated during the last dealing, $300 with shipping included for the one new set of springs that he had advertised. I really should have walked before this as I had a bad feeling because of the shipping charges he wanted before but he accepted my offer this time so I went through with it.

"Starting to see a pattern here? He then contacted us again and said he wanted the springs. We agreed on a price of $300 including the shipping. He sent us a money order from himself made out to himself. When contacted he said change his name to our name on the M.O. and go ahead and cash it. That would have been illegal so we sent it back and he finally sent a correct one, we took pics, shipped the springs, he contacted us saying they are used, I said send them back, he sent different ones back and still wants his money."

   No pattern here. Tom Byers and Burt Byers both knew about the story of my buy from the fellow in Minnesota based on what I told them. They took advantage of my mistake with the money order to try and twist this into something it is not. I did write the money order out to my name but they fail to tell that it did have Tom Byers complete address as to who it was going to and also had a note on it for what the purchase was for (Manley 221448-16 springs). I am the owner of the money order since I paid for it and I can authorize changes to it if I want, it was my money at that time. Our names are similar, Tom Byers and Tom Dwyer and that is why I suggested changing the name on the money order. That is done on legal documents all the time as long as the person making the changes initials it. I am not hiding any of this as it is shown in the original report of mine against Tom Byers. This was just an honest mistake I made while in a hurry at the bank writing it. I was in a hurry so I could get it to the post office and get back to work on time during my lunch break. Believe me; I took a lot of heat for this from my wife for making such a mistake, she ribbed me about it for a whole week. I even went as far as making a copy of money order I messed up so I could show her and she could make fun of me about it. There is no mention about me sending the new money order back with additional money and a stamp to cover the cost of the postage and an envelope.

   Again, pictures can be taken of anything; this does not show what they actually sent me. What Tom Byers and Burt Byers sent me was a box of used valve springs. I sent them back and want my money back. That is the right thing to do.

"Anybody doing business with this guy needs to be careful."

   I would echo the above statement about Tom and Burt Byers of Watkins and Amana, Iowa, respectively.