UCB - United Collections Bureau Nightmare, Cruel, Heartless, Bloodsuckers, No Consideration, Rude, Nasty, Liars, Unethical, Immoral, Shameless, Think they are like gods, Must be stopped! Ripoff Toledo Ohio

Hi Steve,

I enjoy your professionalism during this experience. With that being said, I am saddened to hear that I am not teaching you anything. At the very least I thought I was showing you, and others interested, the other side to the collections business. The non-debt buying side. Reputable agencies representing some of the world's largest banks.

I should take a minute away from our conversation to clarify something. Although my name is Richard, and I go by Rick normally, I am not the same person who has written several pieces on this same site. After my last post I read more on this site and realized the other Rick was someone I did not want to be confused with. Enough said.

To rebut your first paragraph, what you are referring to is a change in terms to the consumer agreement you had originally signed up for. There are two ways this can happen. #1. At anytime a bank may decide to change your terms without you defaulting in anyway. However, once the change has been made you will be notified and offered an option out which will close your account and lock in your original terms and conditions. As long as you do not default once you opt out than you have as long as you want to pay the card off at the original terms. #2. A creditor may change your agreement, without notification, to the default terms if:

a. You are past due greater than 30 days.
b. You are over the credit limit via purchases OR accrued interest, which was not satisfied, prior to your new billing cycle. **Remember OL and PD fees are considered charges and are applied to your principle balance. These fees WILL put you over the limit and in default. There is no grace period to pay these charges as there is with the interest.
c.Behind with any other creditor showing on your credit bureau.

There is no opt out offer made to a consumer in the event of a default as outlined above. This is normally where the problems begin. Accounts in default are expensive. Interest can increase, depending on state law, up to 32%+. A request is made that the balance in full be satisfied immediately. Refusing to do so can result in a judgment being pursued to ensure the account is satisfied one way or another.

That is where collections and purchased debt differ so very much. Remember, your beef is with those companies that buy debt aged greater than the state specific SOL. This debt is legal to collect on however, once the SOL has ran out the debtor has no real legal obligation to pay. That is where the threats and other tactics come into play. These companies have no ground to stand on so they make it up. They hope the uneducated consumer will pay without arming himself with the knowledge needed to fight these guys.

Again, I truly do believe that every consumer has a responsibility, both legally and morally, to satisfy any debt that they may have. If they so happen to fall into that 1-2% of consumers who find themselves in a TRUE hardship then the debt should be erased after a sufficient investigation and proof said hardship has been provided. This is what is normally considered acceptable loss. An inability to pay due to unforeseen, unintentional and often catastrophic reasons.

Debt buying is a business. Whether I agree with you on the terms of this business is irrelevant. I do not see all debt buyers as parasites. I think, just as with any type of business, there are extremist willing to do anything, including break the law, to feed their greed. Governing bodies cracking down on the offenders will fix that problem. We all just have to remember one important thing

We charged the debt at the terms we signed up for. If they change due to no fault of my own I can opt out and pay the card at its original terms. If they change due to my own negligence the repercussions are severe and swift. At the end of the day, I OWE THIS DEBT. If I am not the 1-2% of consumers in a catastrophic situation, I OWE THIS DEBT. 1 year, 3 years, 13 years later, I OWE THIS DEBT. MORALLY I OWE THIS DEBT.

Imagine a world of stand up people utilizing billions of dollars in credit lines and faithfully paying as agreed. It is 95 out of every 100 people. I feel proud to say that.
95 out of every 100 people. They get it. They understand the credit world. Good or bad, they get it. Not all collectors are bad peopleonly in the opinion of the other 5.

In case there are those that cannot read between the lines, I am pro-credit. It plays a very important role every day. Without credit our lives would never have been the samethis world was built on credit and the 95 out of 100 stand up people who use it correctly and responsibly.

Talk with you soon Steve. Thanks for the feedback!

Rick,

Please don't think for a minute you are teaching me anything new. AND, I purposely walked away from these debts AFTER being royally screwed by most of them for no reason. I was a perfect customer for 14 years with a 735 credit score and the intent and ability to pay. Several banks sharply raised, even more than doubled my rates for no other reason than greed. I tried fixing the problem. They gave me a "take it or leave it" attitude. I took that as 2 choices, so I left it.

Greed and arrogance is a bad combination. They feel they do not have to be accountable to the debtor, and the debtor just has to accept anything they throw at them. I proved that this is not the case. I beat them at thier own game.

I fully understand what a charge off is and what it means. I did not need an explanation from you. However, a charged off debt, and a SOLD debt are 2 VERY different situations.

You see, once that charged off debt is SOLD, and the tax deduction is taken for the loss, it is no longer a DEBT. It is an INVESTMENT. That debt buyer must now be able to prove that they have the legal right to collect it, and some very interesting case law is being developed on this, and I helped make some of it.

And, I have successfully beaten every collector and attorney that has come after me over the past
When someone knowingly and willingly purchases an old charged off bad debt for pennies or less on the dollar, they have made an INVESTMENT. They are NOT creditors, they never extended credit, therefore that debtor has no real obligation to them. This is like your stock broker selling you a stock, and it crashes, so you sue your stockbroker for your loss on your INVESTMENT.

Furthermore, in most states you can only sue for what you actually lost, which is the pennies on the dollar you actually paid for it, if that.

You wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
What happens to accounts at 30, 60, 90, 120, 150 days of delinquency? Then comes charge off at 180 (150 days with some lending institutions). Federal law stipulates that a debt must charge off at a specified date. This does not mean the debt goes away.[See above] It simply means that the institution can no longer claim the account as revenue. Collections does not cease. In fact, it escalates because the debt now is at a higher risk of non-payment. At this point companies will forward for possible legal work up and seek judgment. I love when I see people post that they cannot/will not be sued over failure to pay a debt. * The rest are professional debtors getting one over on the financial lenders that have built this country. Sure, when a collector has to explain that their client has the absolute right to pursue them legally it can be taken as an aggressive "tactic". Truth is perception is reality. *An educated consumer would pull out his consumer agreement (1 is received with every new credit line) and read every detail. If they default the repercussions are severe. Default terms include: loss of credit line, increased interest, loss of other accounts with same creditor, request the balance be paid immediately, and the creditors must final of answers to collect the debt.... a judgment including the court cost and lawyer fees. Steve, this is not a jab at you but why is it you ran [Ran? No, I calmly walked away, and stayed gone throughout the SOL period] from your debt as posted above? Taking a cash job to avoid paying and waiting for the SOL to run out and more importantly, LAUGH ABOUT IT? Does that not show a lack of integrity when one would openly refuse to pay a debt, especially for so long, that one rightfully owes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A charged off bad debt that is SOLD to a JUNK DEBT BUYER is no longer a debt. It is an INVESTMENT, and for the jackoffs that bought my old debt, they found out it was a VERY BAD investment! Debt buyers are parasites, and are entitled to nothing. If they don't want to lose money, they should not gamble on buying bad debts. No one forced them to buy these old charged off debts. They did it out of greed. Pure greed, and nothing else.

I owe them NOTHING.

Steve - Your comments are great for those debtors of purchased debt. Debt buying is in fact a billion dollars business however; most of the larger agencies are not debt buyers. Most are vendors that have business outsourced to their agency for collection work. They have not bought, cannot buy, nor wish to engage in that form of collections. Most large lending institutions will not sell the debt until the SOL has ran out.

What happens to accounts at 30, 60, 90, 120, 150 days of delinquency? Then comes charge off at 180 (150 days with some lending institutions). Federal law stipulates that a debt must charge off at a specified date. This does not mean the debt goes away. It simply means that the institution can no longer claim the account as revenue. Collections does not cease. In fact, it escalates because the debt now is at a higher risk of non-payment. At this point companies will forward for possible legal work up and seek judgment. I love when I see people post that they cannot/will not be sued over failure to pay a debt.

People have problems and this is true. Fact of the matter is less than 5% of a banks credit card portfolio falls into collections longer than 30 days. LESS THAN 5% and we are talking 100's of billions of dollars...again LESS THAN 5%. The fact of the matter is simple; of that 5%, 1-2% are legitimate hardships. The rest are professional debtors getting one over on the financial lenders that have built this country. Sure, when a collector has to explain that their client has the absolute right to pursue them legally it can be taken as an aggressive "tactic". Truth is perception is reality.

An educated consumer would pull out his consumer agreement (1 is received with every new credit line) and read every detail. If they default the repercussions are severe. Default terms include: loss of credit line, increased interest, loss of other accounts with same creditor, request the balance be paid immediately, and the creditors must final of answers to collect the debt.... a judgment including the court cost and lawyer fees. Steve, this is not a jab at you but why is it you ran from your debt as posted above? Taking a cash job to avoid paying and waiting for the SOL to run out and more importantly, LAUGH ABOUT IT? Does that not show a lack of integrity when one would openly refuse to pay a debt, especially for so long, that one rightfully owes?

Again, I do not want to make this a jab fest rather offer a professional look at the collection world. What you did Steve would be considered the 3% of the population in collections...professionally. We offer a service that most would not like to touch. Spend tedious hours skip tracing people intentionally hiding. Listen to their insults. Offer solutions conducive to their individual situation only to have the promise to pay broken and the consumer to once again disappear. Why disappear???? Maybe to wait for the SOL to run outthere's a thought.

Lori,

First, I really would like to ask you to not use all caps. It is considered rude, and is VERY HARD TO READ.

Second, the advice given to people being hounded by collectors is GOOD ADVICE and is given for very good reasons. Let me explain..

MOST debts being collected by THIRD PARTY COLLECTORS are those of JUNK DEBT BUYERS, and cannot be documented, or legally collected due to being past the legal STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS. These debts are purchased in large portfolios for less than a penny on the dollar.

The original creditor has written it off as a loss, sold it, AND taken the tax deduction on taxes for the loss! It is NO LONGER A DEBT. It is now nothing more than a BAD INVESTMENT.

The reason for the advice being given to "debtors" to NEVER speak to ANY collector on the phone, is that collectors use tricks to collect debts that they are not legally or morally entitled to. They coerce unsuspecting people to re-affirm a debt that may not have been collectable.

Think about it. WHY do you need to speak to a "debtor" on the phone? It is so you can get information you currently do not have, or to trick them into re-affirming an uncollectable debt. IF you have a valid claim, why not just send 1 notice, and then file a lawsuit? I can answer that question. It is because that debt cannot be documented to win in court as it is LEGALLY UNCOLLECTABLE!!

There is no reason to ever speak to any debt collector on the phone. Doing so will NEVER do anything positive for the "debtor" and will almost always make the situation worse.

Just because you have some fragments of an account in front of you does not mean that the debt is legally owed, or that you even have the right person! The entire burden of proof is on YOU, NOT the "debtor".

A CEASE COMMUNICATIONS request should be made immediately upon first contact by any third party debt collector. This weeds out the frivolous collections efforts and documents the activity so you can sue, and if needed, prosecute the offending collector.



Lori, if you cannot understand this, you really need to find a new job.

I UNDERSTAND YOUR HOW HURT YOU MUST FELT, BUT WHAT I DONT UNDERSTAND IS ALL THE POEPLE WHO RIGHT OFF THE BAT JUST SAY " NEVER TALK OR SEND MONEY TO A COLLECTION AGENCY" OK I UNDERSTAND EVERYONE HAS SOME PROBLEMS NOW AND AGAIN BUT THAT DONT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO JUST IGNORE YOUR BILLS. NOT ALL COLLECTORS ARE RUDE. I WORK FOR A COLLECTION AGENCY I LIVE PAYCHECK TO PAYCHECK JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. BUT THAT STILL DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO TREAT US COLLECTORS LIKE THAT. WE ARE WORKING TO PAY OUR BILLS JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE THIS JUST SO HAPPENS TO BE ALL I KNOW. SO JUST BECAUSE ONE COLLECTOR WAS RUDE DOESENT MEAN WE ALL ARE.

Deanna,

Thanks for the compliment. I have made it my mission to destroy debt collectors and debt buyers.

I was in the mortgage business while I lived in Las Vegas, and was also active in the transportation industry, and in politics in that industry too. I drove a cab for several years while dodging creditors, and working for daily cash! It's so much fun watching them try to get a judgement and a garnishment!

After that I started a trucking company with a partner and then a few years later closed that biz and went to FL to care for my Mother and Grandmother.

All but 1 debt has passed SOL. That one is AMEX and they actually bought the debt back! After 2.5 years in collections! No collection agency will touch it as I have blown away so many collectors on it, it is like a 12 agency debt!

So much fun beating these morons.

Read carefully what Steve says....try to follow his advice and you will see that his suggestions work more often than not.

I wish I lived near Steve, I would let him guide me every step of the way regarding straightening out my financial situation. Bet ya that given a little time, and putting out the necessary effort it takes to follow his suggestions, a brand new financial portfolio would be a thing to proudly display....

Trust me, I have read everything I can find that he posts....He is not blowing smoke up your nethers...I have checked out the suggestions he offers and I have yet to find him wrong.

By the way, if he reads this, no Steve I am not stalking you! LOL....just looking to clean up the results of my ignorance from a few years back, compounded by some unfortunate circumstances....when I get this mess of mine cleaned up, I will not allow myself to ignore the fact that the future always becomes the past ever again! A hard lesson was learned I can tell you!

Kristi,

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you, but it is all too common.

This is exactly why you NEVER speak to any debt collector on the phone! It will never do anything positive for you, and will ALWAYS make things worse for you.

And, NEVER pay any debt collector. When you made a payment to them, you re-affirmed the debt that might not have otherwise been collectable. Always ignore them and make them sue you. Then the burden of proof is on them, and in most cases they cannot document the debt and it gets dismissed.

Now, you need to get every piece of paper available that they used to get your money. It is almost guaranteed that they falsified documents and/or served an old address of yours which is illegal. You have recourse, and you can get criminal charges filed on them for filing false documents with the court, and you can get your money back, plus damages.

Get a lawyer ASAP, even if it is legal aid. Go to the NACA for a referral.

Kristi,

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you, but it is all too common.

This is exactly why you NEVER speak to any debt collector on the phone! It will never do anything positive for you, and will ALWAYS make things worse for you.

And, NEVER pay any debt collector. When you made a payment to them, you re-affirmed the debt that might not have otherwise been collectable. Always ignore them and make them sue you. Then the burden of proof is on them, and in most cases they cannot document the debt and it gets dismissed.

Now, you need to get every piece of paper available that they used to get your money. It is almost guaranteed that they falsified documents and/or served an old address of yours which is illegal. You have recourse, and you can get criminal charges filed on them for filing false documents with the court, and you can get your money back, plus damages.

Get a lawyer ASAP, even if it is legal aid. Go to the NACA for a referral.

Kristi,

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you, but it is all too common.

This is exactly why you NEVER speak to any debt collector on the phone! It will never do anything positive for you, and will ALWAYS make things worse for you.

And, NEVER pay any debt collector. When you made a payment to them, you re-affirmed the debt that might not have otherwise been collectable. Always ignore them and make them sue you. Then the burden of proof is on them, and in most cases they cannot document the debt and it gets dismissed.

Now, you need to get every piece of paper available that they used to get your money. It is almost guaranteed that they falsified documents and/or served an old address of yours which is illegal. You have recourse, and you can get criminal charges filed on them for filing false documents with the court, and you can get your money back, plus damages.

Get a lawyer ASAP, even if it is legal aid. Go to the NACA for a referral.

Kristi,

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you, but it is all too common.

This is exactly why you NEVER speak to any debt collector on the phone! It will never do anything positive for you, and will ALWAYS make things worse for you.

And, NEVER pay any debt collector. When you made a payment to them, you re-affirmed the debt that might not have otherwise been collectable. Always ignore them and make them sue you. Then the burden of proof is on them, and in most cases they cannot document the debt and it gets dismissed.

Now, you need to get every piece of paper available that they used to get your money. It is almost guaranteed that they falsified documents and/or served an old address of yours which is illegal. You have recourse, and you can get criminal charges filed on them for filing false documents with the court, and you can get your money back, plus damages.

Get a lawyer ASAP, even if it is legal aid. Go to the NACA for a referral.