US Bank ripoff those who are unaware of their banking methods Battle Ground Washington

I would just like to say that all of those out there defending US Bank and other rip-off banks and businesses need to keep your annoying and offensive OPINIONS to themselves. I am a former US Bank customer who finally got fed up with being robbed of my hard earned money. I will be the first to admit that I am extremly reckless with my money. I live beyond my means and I am fully aware of it but aparently so was US Bank.

Many of the times my account went over I was at fault other times I clearly wasn't. Like the time I deposited $800 to cover a $400 overdraft and then withdrew money only to recieve an overdraft on a positive amount. Before Robert jumps in with his "well this is how banks work and you have to wait this long", be quite and go away as I am not interested in your seeming need to stick up for this bank. The thing is US Bank has it rigged so that the lowest account balances will overdraft at every possible chance. Believe what you may but it is a fact that US Bank is the eigth largest bank in the world and they didn't get that way by being honest. And before everyone starts chimming in about if they were so dishonest they wouldn't have any customers then feed on this. US Bank is the last stop for people who can't get accounts anywhere else for one reason or another. They do not run CHEX System reports, even though they say they do, nor do they check IDs when opening accounts outside of the branch.

Anyhow I have since opened an account else where and while I still have the same spending habits, bills, and financial situation I haven't had an overdraft in over 6 months. Oh and yes I still owe US Bank for a $70 overdraft which is now $589. Go figure.

I would just like to say that all of those out there defending US Bank and other rip-off banks and businesses need to keep your annoying and offensive OPINIONS to themselves. I am a former US Bank customer who finally got fed up with being robbed of my hard earned money. I will be the first to admit that I am extremly reckless with my money. I live beyond my means and I am fully aware of it but aparently so was US Bank.

Many of the times my account went over I was at fault other times I clearly wasn't. Like the time I deposited $800 to cover a $400 overdraft and then withdrew money only to recieve an overdraft on a positive amount. Before Robert jumps in with his "well this is how banks work and you have to wait this long", be quite and go away as I am not interested in your seeming need to stick up for this bank. The thing is US Bank has it rigged so that the lowest account balances will overdraft at every possible chance. Believe what you may but it is a fact that US Bank is the eigth largest bank in the world and they didn't get that way by being honest. And before everyone starts chimming in about if they were so dishonest they wouldn't have any customers then feed on this. US Bank is the last stop for people who can't get accounts anywhere else for one reason or another. They do not run CHEX System reports, even though they say they do, nor do they check IDs when opening accounts outside of the branch.

Anyhow I have since opened an account else where and while I still have the same spending habits, bills, and financial situation I haven't had an overdraft in over 6 months. Oh and yes I still owe US Bank for a $70 overdraft which is now $589. Go figure.

I would just like to say that all of those out there defending US Bank and other rip-off banks and businesses need to keep your annoying and offensive OPINIONS to themselves. I am a former US Bank customer who finally got fed up with being robbed of my hard earned money. I will be the first to admit that I am extremly reckless with my money. I live beyond my means and I am fully aware of it but aparently so was US Bank.

Many of the times my account went over I was at fault other times I clearly wasn't. Like the time I deposited $800 to cover a $400 overdraft and then withdrew money only to recieve an overdraft on a positive amount. Before Robert jumps in with his "well this is how banks work and you have to wait this long", be quite and go away as I am not interested in your seeming need to stick up for this bank. The thing is US Bank has it rigged so that the lowest account balances will overdraft at every possible chance. Believe what you may but it is a fact that US Bank is the eigth largest bank in the world and they didn't get that way by being honest. And before everyone starts chimming in about if they were so dishonest they wouldn't have any customers then feed on this. US Bank is the last stop for people who can't get accounts anywhere else for one reason or another. They do not run CHEX System reports, even though they say they do, nor do they check IDs when opening accounts outside of the branch.

Anyhow I have since opened an account else where and while I still have the same spending habits, bills, and financial situation I haven't had an overdraft in over 6 months. Oh and yes I still owe US Bank for a $70 overdraft which is now $589. Go figure.

One thing that will completely do away with holds... I thought I mentioned this earlier, but perhaps not.. If you use your card AS A DEBIT CARD, meaning you enter your PIN code at the pump, or inside the building (in the case of a gas station) then there are NO HOLD CHARGES.

Using your card as a CREDIT CARD WILL result in holds. It's, I believe, due to the fact that the charge not only goes through your bank, but the credit card processor as well.

The downside is that you do not have the protection of the credit card companies behind you. So you do not have the ability to dispute charges, but you would never dispute a gas or restaurant charge under normal circumstances, so that should be a BFD situation.

I could be wrong about the protection features, they have changed things within the last year or so in some ways, so check your bank policy to see if you have the ability to dispute charges done on debit.

My point was the bank is NOT responsible for this type of issue. The merchant is. I did notice yesterday, after filling up again, I was not charged a "hold" on my account for more than I recieved in gas, while again paying at the pump. I wonder if someone did remove a gas pump from somewhere....hmmmmmmm.

Now, could there be a better case for not having a debit card? Or, for reasons why the banks need to educate people before issuing a debit card? How can anyone control their money in a bank when these type of actions occur? How can they even be responsible for the "mysterious" holds. Perhaps the banks can register "holds" differently than actual "draws" on the accounts. Anyway, the banks are still responsible or irresponsible, which ever one fits!

Thanks for stating it so succinctly!

Now, could there be a better case for not having a debit card? Or, for reasons why the banks need to educate people before issuing a debit card? How can anyone control their money in a bank when these type of actions occur? How can they even be responsible for the "mysterious" holds. Perhaps the banks can register "holds" differently than actual "draws" on the accounts. Anyway, the banks are still responsible or irresponsible, which ever one fits!

Thanks for stating it so succinctly!

Now, could there be a better case for not having a debit card? Or, for reasons why the banks need to educate people before issuing a debit card? How can anyone control their money in a bank when these type of actions occur? How can they even be responsible for the "mysterious" holds. Perhaps the banks can register "holds" differently than actual "draws" on the accounts. Anyway, the banks are still responsible or irresponsible, which ever one fits!

Thanks for stating it so succinctly!

Now, could there be a better case for not having a debit card? Or, for reasons why the banks need to educate people before issuing a debit card? How can anyone control their money in a bank when these type of actions occur? How can they even be responsible for the "mysterious" holds. Perhaps the banks can register "holds" differently than actual "draws" on the accounts. Anyway, the banks are still responsible or irresponsible, which ever one fits!

Thanks for stating it so succinctly!

I pumped $32.58 worth of gas into my car, using my checkcard at the pump. The company put a hold on my account for $75.00. When I called their corporate office(I know talkiing to the cashier inside the building is useless), they told me that was what "all the customers who call are demanding". Sure, what a crock. I gave the woman this scenario..."A customer has $100 in his account and one check floating around for $50. This should allow him to be able to use up to $50 any way he wants. He gets $32.58 worth of gas, well below the $50 he should have. The gas station hits him up for the $75 hold and the check hits the bank the same day. The bank sees the customer as being $25 overdrawn and hits him with a $34 NSF fee. The following day, the $75 falls off his account and the $32.58 appears. Since the bank already thinks the customer is overdrawn from the day before, they now hit him for another $34 NSF fee because he IS overdrawn due to the $75 hold, and the check bouncing. The customer should have been well clear of being overdrawn, but the merchant just F__CKED him with that insane "hold" amount. Will the gas station reimburse the customer for the NSF fees that THEIR asinine "hold" caused for the customer?" She said no. I informed her that if that $75 didn't fall off my account at midnight, her company would be looking for a gas pump the following day. Not only did the $75 "hold" disappear during the day(about 90 minutes later), the $32.58 didn't show up for another 3 days. I think they figured out the gas pumps are more expensive than the "hold". I have no problems being able to cover any check or debit I cause, including the "hold" that was over two times the purchase amount, but alot of people do. I fought one for you guys. The bank(BoA) said they would not hold the customer responsible for the NSF if the scenario was exactly as I presented it. The girl told me they would reverse the charge. Even the banks are getting annoyed by this kind of stuff.

My debit card was denied the other day. (Like I mentioned before I'm lucky to have that does this.) I checked the balance and even though I had over $300 in actual balance, I only had $20 in available balance. An additional hold of $100 was from a gas station. (Besides what we had paid.) And also 2 $50 dollar holds from other stores (also in addition to the cost.) How am I supposed to balance my account accurately if these merchants put additional holds on things that I am not informed about?

That is what many businesses are doing. Putting additional holds on debit cards to insure that their payment goes through. Where does that leave the consumers who do not know about these additional holds? SOL according to you.

The merchants should be required to at least post a sign saying that their will be an additional hold. So that people can budget accordingly.

All your comments, Ken, are well taken. However, it isn't my bank account. I don't even own a debit card and will not own one. You really made my case for me as to why debit cards are just a way for young people who aren't making $20K a year are getting into trouble with accounts. The banks encourage debit card use...fail to educate how the system works...then they rake in the overdraft charges. How many people can balance a bank account when there are unseen charges being tolled on their accounts and then it is their fault that overdraft charges are added? Bank accounts are a different structure altogether and you know how much to deduct when you write a check, there are no unseen charges and you can know your balance. All I am saying is that if banks are going to give people debit cards then they (the bank) should give the customer usable information/education before they go out and begin using the card! Do you think the banks aren't raking in overdraft charges in the millions of dollars due to this type of activity? My daughter was never told how this works (and she is not the only one) and we had to go into the bank together and have them explain the process. I just wonder how many people were "educated" by the banks before they were given their cards and encouraged to "go use their cards!" Do you think they showed sympathy to any of their customers and said, well, since you didn't know, we'll just wipe out that balance! None that I know of had this happen!

None of what you say relieves you of your obligation to manage and track your own money. This is, and always has been the crux of the problem... you (or someone) overspends because they do not know what they have in their account.

Let me show you why... the merchant has control over what amount they submit for hold. The bank has control over dropping the hold. OK so far? Now, you charge dinner at a restaurant and give them your debit card. The run the card for the amount of the check, which is, say, $35.00. The bank places a temporary hold for $35.00 on your account. Now, the service was great, so you added a $7.00 tip.

Next day, the $42.00 item hits the bank electronically. The bank tries to match it against the holds it has on the account, but can't match it because of the amount.

If they didn't take an additional step, the hold would never drop off your account, so, the bank makes a policy of dropping unmatched holds after some period of time. Three days is common, but many do it in one day.

If you look at just this one example you will see that if you inquired on your balance during that 3 day period it is understated by $7.00. Multiply this by a trip to the mall and you can see why just asking a bank what your balance is, and then spending that amount is going to result in a mess like this.

No bank has ever told a customer that there is no need to balance your account because there are balances on ATMs and online, but for some reason people seem to think that is the case.

Now to save Sandy from reply that "Ken must be an employee of ", let me assure you I am not. In fact, I am not an employee of any bank at all... but I do read, and the explanation above was given to me by the nice lady at my bank.

Sandy says "why not say something constructive?" yet repeatedly ignores the people (not just me) who suggest that she get a register and balance her account when she gets her statement. I'd say that's pretty constructive advice.

Ken, you are completely out of line.

Why should a merchant not inform their customers about how much money will be held and until when?

I'm lucky and have a bank that when it shows the account balance it shows both the complete balance and what is available until to hold clears. It's annoying but at I won't go over my balance.

A lot of banks do not do this. Maybe the way the computers are set up, I don't know. The best way for people to know about the additional hold is to have the merchants put up signs. But the only way to do that (nationwide) is a federal law.

Also to Sandy some businesses may like it because it would boost sales, ie Store A doesn't hold funds, Store B does but not that much, and Store C holds an enormous amount. It would mean a boost in sales for Store A and B. And then Store C would compete.

Why doesn't Ken enter something constructive instead of snide comments? I did a lot of casework while working for the state and saw many instances where people were taken advantage of...some of it was due to wrong choices by the person, some to ignorance (shall we say they "trusted" people?) and some of it was just because companies/state agencies do things because they can get away with it...until someone steps up to the plate and says enough! Perhaps Ken should do some community service and it would help get rid of his bad attitude. I thought this was a place to share and inform, does people like Ken not know that????

Be sure that when you get your law that you include supermarkets, because it is clear that when you burn dinner, it is THEIR fault because they didnt teach you to cook. While you are at it, when you dent a fender it is clearly the auto dealership's fault... those crooks didnt teach you how to drive! This is brilliant, we wont ever have to take any personal responsibility!

Good comments, good suggestions. So, we need a law, federal, since this is a boundary across state lines, to require merchants to reveal to all who use debit cards that there are holds, and how much they are "holding" of the customer's money. Business is going to love this!

Sandy you are oh so right. I watch what I spend all the time through US Bank and it still doesn't matter how much you watch them. I take out so much each week and make sure I leave enough in my account to last to the next week. Positive balance. By the time I look at my account on the internet I have OD charges on my account. I never touch it or use the account within that week. And it seems like every week they are taking out 34 dollars. I call them and they have no idea why it was taken out. This bank is not a ripoff but they are crooks!!! It makes ya want to go back to the mattress plan. At least you know where your money is.

The one point I will agree with you on is if US Bank actually does charge a $7/day overdrawn charge. I mean, come on.. If I ain't got no money in the account, you don't have to beat me over the head with it. That does suck.


As for the rest. I do not agree that the bank should explain how the system works. The system changes. Banks never explained that when you mailed a check, it took x number of days for it to get to the person, x number of days for it to clear their bank, then x number of days for the money to come out of your account. Of course, that one worked in your favor, so noone complained about it.

Again, I fall back on the merchant, because the merchant is the one causing the extra money to be held. The bank doesn't know they do this, because some do, some don't. The bank has zero control over it.

Good responses from others, while appreciated it doesn't release US Bank from educating new customers about how the system works. Either they do this intentionally or they are irresponsible for not informing people. Many of the people I contacted are used to the "normal" way a checking account system works, they are not informed about how debit cards work. US Bank does know how the system works because they were able to totally educate me when I began to ask why my daughter's account was so overdrawn...they do know and don't educate!
As for their practice of allowing a person to take out more money than is in the account and then issuing overdraft charges along with an over account charge of $7 a day ( or more). They have to accept that as being intentional or irresponsible for allowing that to happen.
I checked with other banks and they do not do business this way...US Bank is gouging the public and it is usually the ones who can least afford it.

I do not believe that this is the banks fault entirely or your daughter's for not knowing it.
The main blame lies with the merchants whom use this method of holding and do not inform the consumer about it. As was mentioned before merchants should be forced to post signs so that people know about this and make the appropriate changes into their check books.

Some banks do give balances reflecting both what you have in the account and what is available due to holds but not all. And it seems ridiculous for them to have a list of all of the merchants who use this practice. Do you realize how big that would be? (As you can't put on for example gas stations, since all do not use it. They would have to list every place that does individually.)

We need to be looking to find a way, so that all merchants who use this credit card holding method are forced to inform the consumer of what they are doing.

"Whose responsibility was it to inform the customers of the way business is done when they issue debit cards"

Not the banks. The bank provides the card. That's it. The bank has no control over how a MERCHANT places charges and holds on that card. The BANK did nothing but accept the charges the MERCHANT told them. The BANK has no control over this, the BANK has no knowledge of this.

The bank IS required to disclose any fees that THEY charge to the card. Which is why you see all the d**n annoying "$1.50 charge for this transaction" screens on ATMs nowadays. When the restaurant runs your card for $50.00, THEY add 15% or whatever onto it and tell the bank to hold $50+15%, the bank does it. When all is settled, the charge hits the bank for $50.00, and the bank then releases the excess hold amount.

I do agree with you, as I mentioned before, that the consumer should be notified. The MERCHANT is the one who needs to provide the notification, as the extra hold amount can vary from merchant to merchant and some merchants have no extra hold at all.

The anger in this situation is justified, but misdirected. Be angry at the merchants who place the holds, not the bank. They are the ones causing the problem.

In response to the responses:
It is a much different thing when you are talking about young kids and their inexperience in the business world versus an adult who learned the process like using a checkbook and not a debit card. Is it stupidity or is it carelessness on the part of the people giving information to a new client to leave out pertinent information when they sign them up for an account? How does any young person know what they are expected to get when they first sign up for an account? What other people fell prey to the same set of circumstances? How many people knew about the "holds" by merchants when they used their debit cards. Whose responsibility was it to inform the customers of the way business is done when they issue debit cards. Do you think the ordinary banking customer knows these things? Believe me I asked people, after this learning experience, if they had knowledge of this practice. Amazingly no one I asked knew this. So, you people who agree with Robert's arrogance, I hope you never face a problem where you should have just "known" the game rules without ever been told about them.

I must echo Sandy's words. I have had the same experience with the US Bank here in the Chicago area. They use extreemly deceptive and devious accounting methods and have not one but two different balances for you. Only they give the one on the main page of the online, only to tell you that they have a second (lower one) that they are "holding" on and back certain funds.
They are truly the worst crooks in the banking industry that I have encoutered in my 56 years of banking. And don't call their customer NO service! They truly speak with forked tounges!

The problems you're having are mostly with the people your daughter is purchasing from. I went to a restaurant a few weeks ago and the total bill was $60.00 (Leaving a $10.00 cash tip on the table), looking at my online statement, there was a $75.00 Check Card Hold from the restaurant. After a few days, the amount dropped back to the original purchase amount. That's not the bank doing that, it's the restaurant.

Did you know that if you use your check card as "Credit" at the gas pump, there is a hold placed against it as well? And that amount is more than the gas you purchased? One local station here bumped that hold amount up to $100.00. So, if you were using your credit card to buy $1.00 worth of gas to put in the lawn mower, $100.00 was "held" from your account. Which could cause problems later on if you have checks passing through.

Personally, I think places like that should be required to post their policy somewhere. I don't have a problem with them doing it, but how are you to know which ones do?

Again, this is not the fault of the bank, but the retailers. And there's no recourse.

Robert is right. (he generally is) The bank has no control over the amount the merchant submits. I know for a fact that many restaurants only submit the base bill, not including tip, so the amount held is possibly 20% below the actual amount. Gas stations typically hold a dollar.

It isn't the bank who set your daughter up for failure. The one who set her up is the one who taught her that you can call the bank, get a balance, then go out and spend that amount. The one who told her you dont need to track your own spending is the one who ultimately cost her all that money.

Changing banks isn't going to help her. If she doesn't learn to manage her own funds correctly, the very same things will happen at the next bank, for all the same reasons.

First, if you daughter had not been given a copy of the terms and conditions, she should have asked for one (from the teller or calling the customer service number to have one sent) or she could have gone online to the bank's web site to print a copy of one. Not being "given" a copy of the terms and conditions is no excuse. Ask for one. It is what you are agreeing to when you open an account. Not asking for one is irresponsible.

Second, the bank has no control over what charges the vendor submits against the account. It is the gas company and the resturaunt that submits the additional amount when a debit card is used. The bank just processes what is submitted. The situation is the same at any bank.