• Report: #963396
Complaint Review:


  • Submitted: Thu, November 01, 2012
  • Updated: Fri, February 22, 2013

  • Reported By: Karen — Scottsdale Arizona United States of America
hartford st scottsdale, Arizona United States of America

vemma The Ultimate Pyramid Scheme, Make money hahahaha.... rather loose money! scottsdale, Arizona

*Consumer Comment: Why vemma is a scam

*Consumer Comment: No such Endorsement

*Consumer Comment: MLM Marketing

*General Comment: How many..

*General Comment: Pyramid Schemes vs Business Models

*UPDATE Employee: Yes. Relating Subway and Vemma DOES Make Sense

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: The Official 2012 Debate

*General Comment: Vemma is a scam,

*UPDATE Employee: What is a Pyramid Scheme?

*General Comment: Vemma is a pyramid scheme

*Author of original report: income disclosure broken down

*Author of original report: Sorry for sending 1st draft IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS

*General Comment: To good to be true? It is...

*UPDATE Employee: Where do I begin?

*UPDATE Employee: Vemma? Farthest thing from a Pyramid Scheme!

*General Comment: Who here is really uneducated

*Consumer Comment: Your "franchise" YOUR buisness

*Author of original report: Could u run a subway like vemma corp

*General Comment: Uneducated Complaint

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BAD experience being a Vemma "Brand Partner" RIPOFF. ...... I started to drink product and I do drink Bode Daily and it has helped me. But when I was recruited to sell the product I as encouraged to buy a $500.00 starter pack so I could be eligible for the BMW (which if I read right they pay your monthly lease if you sell thousands of dollars of product and if you do not maintain that every month u do not get your lease paid so thats what 600.00 a month tops.) I immediately realized after throwing a few parties that I had spent about $1000.00 in product (2 BMW payments) and was no where near getting even a $20.00 check. I did meet someone who just happened to be a friend of9 (MR. Morrow one of the 1%) I have a masters In science degree so as i educated mymaking some money it was clear this was not going to be the case.

The company is beyond pyramid scheme the actual breakdown of avg. salaries of partners is less than 500.00 pr YEAR( thats per their own lit) 30% of partners next 40% will make 1000.00 per annum. the next 20% make less than 3,000.00 per YEAR!!! Tha leaves the top 1 percent of the company making 99% of the income!!! sound familiar, but we are talking about a gap between the top 1% and the other 99% that is almost inacalculable less than 1000.for partners to 12 million for BK and a few others.( profit last year ) I have met many had working souls being sold a lie. The top 20 have been the top 20 since 2004 and know if you notice its their children who r now making $.

WHAT MADE ME FINALLY WRITE THIS Today I attemped to return about 75.00 worth of unopened product at the factory,I was told too bad "it was over 30 days" these were products from my "starter pack that I find undrinkable, Once again Vemma corporation is making money any way they can.

The staff, and supervisors fall back on the old "they have no control over policy" and I should not heir policies, of else get another job that is not decietful and geared toward making money for B.K. and friends. Case in point why would you work at the retail store making 10.00 and hour if you believed the promises perhaps 1 cent an hour. You shuold be ashamed to tell people that if they were doing it the right way you will earn big money, and if you work 1000 hours and make 1000 dolars its because you didnt trif they were brand parters they would not be working there but making an income "referring" the product as brand partners. I guess they dont want to be rich!!

Oh yeah if u attend a Vemma conference be ready to PAY them and bring your own product to give away, this is while u r in the factory surrounded by cases of the stuff. B.K. sure know how to get his followers to a point that they see nothing wrong with this bussiness model.

In my education I also see that the Vemma Co has innundated the internet with stories like the one on utube asking Is Vemma A scam? and the speaker states he has a friend who makes a living full time selling Vemma, no friends name, just a friend, I guess the speaker isnt interested in making money himself , he is just happy for his friend? Its always a nameless friend, or they r trying to sell you their secrets to selling and making it big! B.K. and Co. how do u sleep people today are financially hurting and you lie and scheme to make profit from your brand partners. I noticed B.K. is quite phialnthropic, when it come o his charities, perhaps he should rethink his profit marging and be a bit more chatitable with his beloved brand partners. His golden geese who must auto-purchase product give parties using their own products even at headquarters surrounded by cases of it. B.K.K knows he is not gotting to stay rich giving it away, but the "partners" can? and get other to do the same. oh and it has to be so many CVs to qualify, then maybe then youl be luck and join the ranks of the 99% and make 1000.00 a year y hard enough!!!

As you know MLM marketing is a great way for B.K. to not spend 40% of budget on advertising, not to make sure that everyone in the world can buy it to improve your health, or that the sales pice was so gh MLM marketing that if selling in stores would raise its price point too high, right now they get the full $4.00 or so a can no middle man, unbelievable profits to the source.

If during recruitment you told people repeatedly that no matter how hard you work the chance of making over 1000.00 are about the same odds as winning the lottery you would loose your army of so called " Partners". And its" because you dont know how to sell" There is no comprehensible way to make more than 1000.00 year What partner do is make money for B.K et al.

If anyone can disproove anything I have written please do so, with specifics not I know someone who makes a living,names and their vemma income. Not ruth elliott or the alkalians or the morrows other 15 or so who so claim to make an income that they can live on.

And they squeezed every last dime out of me, Im not saying the product is bad, I drink BODE daily but thats not enough for them they want you to buy it give it away AND believe that if you somehow figure it out, you will be making money while you sleep. B.K do you sleep?

Since writing this I checked my Vemma "office" locked out since I requested a refund so I cant provide website address for Inome disclosures, but if you have access click on bottom of page that states income disclosure, and it give you the breakdown as I reported.self on the comany with the anticipation of

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/01/2012 04:44 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/vemma/scottsdale-arizona-/vemma-the-ultimate-pyramid-scheme-make-money-hahahaha-rather-loose-money-scottsdal-963396. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

Why vemma is a scam

AUTHOR: College Student in Texas - ()

The most frustrating things about having this debate with vemma "brand partners" is that vemma has trained them well to throw out the same arguments and stats over and over without those arguments having any weight on them. First, is it possible to make money with vemma? Yes. But that doesn't make it a good decision. 

Vemma isn't a traditional pyramid scheme, it's what we like to call a product based pyramid scheme in which there is a product, but the product is not how a brand partner would be able to make a majoriry of their income. Instead it is based on brand partners sigoing up other brand partners. This is legal to an extent, but the company has to prove a majority of it's revenue isn't coming from brand partners. This Is not the case for vemma and the FTC has a hard time gaining access to this information because vemma is privatley owned. This is the exact reason vemma will never become a publicly traded company, not because the CEO cares about his customers or affiliates, because it's the only thing stoping it all from crumbling down. Also the Better business beareu(BBB) has changed vemmaa rating to a C+ based on numerous complaints about the company.

CEO BK is not a good person. He has lost lawsuits in the past for making fake claims about his product specifically in relation to curing ADHD. He has since then given his company a new name as well as legally changing his name so as to try to leave that information in the past. He encourages college students to drop out and follow his vemma plan giving outlandish promises of leased cars and hundred dollar bills. The  target of high school and college students is by far the most upsetting thing to me. People who don't have 500 to spend of a pyramid scheme where they are likely to lose money on. Bk attacks the everyday workforce by implying that you can make more money with less time spent which is also a lie. Over 75 percent of vemma brand partners lose money on the deal, and 97% don't even make minimum wage. Which of course these must be people who aren't trying hard enough or committing, no. so yes it is possible to make money, but you don't have a great shot at it.

This all stems from Vemma being sold at ridiculously high prices to it's brand affiliates. Even with a "superior product", it doesn't make financial sense that vemma sells to BRAND PARTNERS at 2.50-3.50 per verve can In bulk. When you buy somthing in bulk, you recieve a discount per item. Also, if yo. Are buying directly from the manufacturar, you get a discount. Not with vemma. There's a reason vemma will never be sold in stores, its because the product wouldn't make them near as much money as it would selling it on incredible markups to people who are trying to make a better life for themselves. If vemma sold to stores, it would do terribly. No store would buy from vemma at the ridiculous markups, and vemma would losE most if not all of it's profitability due to the fact that noone would drink it. 

Id like to make this abundantly clear that no one endorses vemma. Vemma reps love to talk about how people like Oprah, Dr. Oz, the Suns, and the Bills "stake their reputation on Vemma" when in fact not a single one has publicly endorsed vemma. Also I'm pretty confident these peoples reputations would remain fine if vemma went under and they HAD actually endorsed vemma because they are so big nothings really at stake. My point is that no one actually endorsed vemma but you will hear the same regurgated response every single diay from a vemma rep. 

Vemma is currently a defendent in a clasd action lawsuit  in California where they are acaused of automatically recharging peoples credit cards every month without being asked todo so, providing information of this, or asking pemmison from the card holder.

the car bonus is the most flashy and worthless gimmivk vemma Offers, it's a leased car and isn't really useful in any way. Also I would like to pount out that your income tax rate goes up if you are a brand partner because it is in fact your own business, so there goes even more cash out the winidow.

Making money with vemma is possible, but it's different from subway in that when you are recruited, everyone involved knows that dtatistically speaking you are going to lose money. It's a model designed to prey on college students and the youth of the country by prompting them to invest in a business that is most likely to fail. Don't believe me? go look up vemma arguments for themselves and see just how scripted every answer is, often times its word for word scripted. Don't join vemma unless you have an edge  not even your recruiter knows about.

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#2 Consumer Comment

No such Endorsement

AUTHOR: MedicFL1 - ()

Please be advised that Dr Oz  DOES NOT ENDORSE THIS PRODUCT or, according to him, any other such product.

In fact Dr Oz has been on national t.v. staying so and wants the public to know that any product that uses his name without consent will be subject to legal action.

Multi level marketing depends on you signing up people and for them to sign up people in order to make any money yourself. It's the nature of the beast & has been around for some time.

I myself tried it with a product called RELIVE, MY brother tried it with a stem cell algae product & now my nephew is trying it with Vemma.

We made no money but we wish him well, he is a college student and has been recruited by a friend who made money off him when he spent his $500.

The vitamin business is a multi billion dollar a year business but I find that people prefer to purchase from reputable stores.

If your not a salesman & can't continue signing up people & in turn keep them signing up people than this is not for you.

So your homework, your research, due diligence prior to joining any mlm or else you will simply be spending money when you were actually trying to make money.

These systems work best in people who want to believe the propaganda that you'll get rich quick.

Can't constantly sign up people? Can't motivate anyone you do sign up to keep signing up package sellers? This ad's any other mlm is not for you. Reality stinks doesn't it. Don't quit your day job just yet.

In the other hand if you do have $300 to $500k you could open up your own franchise off an established business.

But you don't & that's why you're here. That's okay many have failed before you and eventually all in the mlm game do fail as they run out of people to sign-up too. But for now let them defend it all they want.


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#3 Consumer Comment

MLM Marketing

AUTHOR: Penpont - ()

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#4 General Comment

How many..

AUTHOR: Bill - ()

How many actual sells have you made? Recruiting others to join the company is not a legal/ethical way to make money.  I know people in vemma and the are "required" to buy the product but they arent paid for selling it.  They are paid for getting people to sign up and do the exact same thing.  Thats unethical to say the least.  

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#5 General Comment

Pyramid Schemes vs Business Models

AUTHOR: IndyHighlander - ()

 First, I agree with your premise that all business takes hard work.  Almost immediately, though you commit a logical falicy that invalidates your entire point of the necessity for hard work to make the business successful.  To wit:  If one builds the business by gathering others and their subsequent structures under them by explaining how the business works and why it is a great opportunity, then no one can start building their structure for several months - by your estimation of time needed to understand the business.  That means your expectations for new people is that they will go for several months without income, results, or subordinates.

Your second paragraph begins with an agregious mistake about the population of the planet.  There are currently 7 billion people inhabiting our little rock.  The problem the discrepency creates is attention to major facts.  It leaves me suspicious about how your and other representatives pay attention to little details (like how much a person is paid) when you don't correctly cite the population of the planet.  But the thing that stood out most in this soliloquy was that you sell the idea of the company as a way to help people escape their mundane, unsuccessful, counterproductive circumstances.  You menioned cashiers, waiters, and the like.  Those aren't people who are likely to do the kind of work you described in your beginning premise.  Further, those people live hand to mouth and don't possess the money to join your organization.  If I was considering buying a Subway franchise, $500 or $1,000 would be a no-brainer.  But taking a chance on something that is a pyramid scheme is insane and insulting to the very people you claim to want to help.  Those people make up 99% of the population, and share 1% of the wealth.  How do they have money or time to participate in this risky venture?  OK, that's enough about paragraph 2.  My point is mor important.

Regarding the Subway franchise analogy, it's completely flawed by definition.  First, you claim that Vemma works the same way the Subway corporation works because they sell downline opportunities also.  After the sale of the first franchise, your entire point disintegrates.  A pyramid scheme is an organization that draws people in under the lowest level of people, broadening the organization's base, the money trickles up from the new line of the base who "paid their dues".  A business model of a company is based on the sales of products or services to consumers.  In some companies, they also sell franchises to business investors.  When they do, they don't have those franchise owners sell sub-franchises to other investors who then develop their own org chart by selling franchises of their franchise.  It's absurd on the face of it.  A legitimate business sells a product or service.  If they also sell franchises, those business then sell the product or service to consumers.  The people who are employed by franchises make barely enough money to pay their own bills, let alone buy into a pyramid scheme.

Finally, please let me say Vemma probably has a legitimate product, and has a real claim to potential large profits.  However, if they build on a pyramid methodology, they will eventually encounter their end.  Although there are actually 7 billion people on the planet, even 7 billion is a finite number.  Statistically speaking, Vemma has access to about 1% of 1% of that populus.  Only 1% of those qualify, and only 1% of those will put in the required effort.  What I'm saying is someone has to sell a product to drive the business.  There's no such job as selling jobs to job sellers who are looking for job sellers, ad infinitem.

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#6 UPDATE Employee

Yes. Relating Subway and Vemma DOES Make Sense

AUTHOR: colin - ()

I think the comment about not being able to run a Subway like Vemma shows how truly uneducated people who complain about this businses really are. People who fail, 99 out of 100 times, are people who haven't invested the time in learning the business. This takes time. Not 1 week, not one month, but multiple months. Being in the business for multiple months, learning it, taking action, and seeing success, its safe to say that being in the business for multiple months is required before you even begin to grasp it. That being said, the people who are rebuttling here simply are uneducated and uninformed. Not in life, but definetly when it comes to talking about home based businesses and Vemma. It's like me trying to diagnose somebody because I read a couple books and "tried' out med school for a year. If they actually learned the business, it's almost impossible to say that its illegal, pyramid scheme, doesn't work, simply because it makes sense. Its operated just like any other business except in this business, BK actually wants to help you, and pay you accordingly. A CEO at a company will pay you the same amount no matter how hard you work. Promotions aren't guaranteed, but 'hoped' for some day, and that always doesn't work out if you put the work in. In Vemma, work=success. If you have been in the company and haven't been given the same opportunity I was to succeed, that is the fault of your enroller, NOT the company. I was provided a workout plan, all I had to do was workout. Simple as that. What other businses are you told exactly how to succeed? The funny thing is it actually works. I gurantee the people on here who have failed 100% of the time, didn't make this a priority in their life. And any rebuttles to that I would simply say this. WHAT else in life do you NOT have to work your butt off for? No matter what you end up doing, if you want to be great, you have to put in the time where others are not going to. Its as simple as that. You can tell yourself it didn't work because of the business, but thats not the case because there are people out there who just do it, and make it work.

Who above said that you can "run" out of people to talk to? Last time I checked there were over a BILLION people on this planet and every single one of them wants to make money and be healthy. You might run out of 'friends' to talk to, but what's stopping you from talking to the cashier at the gas station? Or the line cook at chipotle? Chances are they absolutely hate their job, and you have an obligation to help them. Simple as that. And if you're afraid/worried/scared/whatever to go talk to new people, chances are you aren't going to 'make it' in business PERIOD, because all business is in one form or another is sales. People act like a CEO of a company isn't operating the exact same way as this company. They LEVERAGE other people's expertise, and as their business grows, their income grows. No promises of suceeding, LOTS of hard work, and LOTS of talking and selling themselves and their business to people. Replace the word 'sell', with 'help' in Vemma, and you take a completely different approach towards things. This business is about changing peoples paradigms. The compensation plan works, the SYSTEM works. The business is legit; that's a terrible arguement. I don't think Oprah, Oz, Jordan, etc. would tarnish their reputation for this. Google Anthony Powell, he left Herbalife for Vemma (he was making MILLIONS at the time at Herbalife). There are tangible results.

And finally, YES, it is like operating a Subway. Not the subway itself, but the company. We're not talking about selling sandwiches on commission. Who the heck would ever do that? Nobody sells Verve, Vemma, or Bode, so get that out of the way. But how Subway operates is buy owners buying franchises. Those franchises provide residual income to Subway corporate. The more franchises, the more money. Just like vending machines. The difference is, you train your downline, to train their downline, to train their downline, so on and so forth. You literally are just duplicating the system, much like Subway continues to duplicate the system by adding more store in that generate money for Subway corporate, without Subway corporate itself ever having to physically sell a sandwich. Now with Subway there is advertising, food to keep stock, wages to pay, etc. With Vemma, all someone does is become a consumer of the product. You spend money on Red Bull, Cofee, Preworkout, Vitamins, etc. ANYWAYS. So take your money, buy some fantastic product that you were going to purchase anyways, and turn it into a business. You're already marketing brands, selling stuff for companies like Gap, JCrew, Abercrombie, Polo, etc. that doesn't pay you. How many times have you told someone about an awesome movie and they went and saw it? You didn't get paid anything AND did all the marketing leg work for the company! Direct referals and sales are a commonplace in EVERY company. What happens when you refer somenoe to your insurance company? They probably pay you! Is that a pyramid scheme? Not at all! All Vemma is doing is building a network of consumers who are living a healthy, active, driven lifestyle. Don't play ball if you can't hang with the big dogs! Chances are if you failed at this, you would fail at trying to run a traditional 'corporation' for the day, but the same people who have those ambitions are the ones hating on this! It requires the same skill set, hardwork, determination, and attitude. That's why there are few CEO's and MANY employees.

If you don't believe me, I will physically CALL anyone about this and say the same thing (plus many more things). Me repeating stuff doesn't make it being dishonest. How many times has a salemans for insurance said the same thing? And we all know insurance is a scam, so does that make Aetna, United, etc. all of those companies pyramid schemes because a salesman has to repeat the same stuff over and over? Successful people take successful tasks and turn them in to habits. Its the same no matter where you're at in business. The TRULY succsesful people are the ones working their butt off no matter what. The difference is some people are working 10 smart hours (helping their money develop to work FOR them), as opposed to people working 10 dumb hours, only getting paid a certain amount that their employer told them no matter how hard they work that day. Fact.

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#7 UPDATE EX-employee responds

The Official 2012 Debate

AUTHOR: anonymous - ()

This is just like politics. Plenty of people on both sides. Nobody knows who is right or who is wrong. And in the end you suffer the consequences of whoever you voted for. The top 1% make 99% of the income. What happens if you reverse that? 99% make 1%? 50-50? Can you get everybody to make 100%? Can you make enough money and recruit enough people that you can defeat the government, conquer the earth, buy another planet, and tell God to do it your way when he created you in the first place? Sure, all that sounds unrealistic but you know what? It's up to every person to decide what they want to do. Period. Everyone can find their own success their own way.

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#8 General Comment

Vemma is a scam,

AUTHOR: vemmasux - ()

 I'm tired of the way Vemma HAS BRAINWASHED you idiots into bragging about your dumb a** drink and all the money you aren't making.  you people are trying to make it look like you are making all kinds of money so your friends will join your little scheme also.  I am tired of hearing RACKEM and I am tired of hearing about paying for leased BMW's which you never really own in the first place. 

RACK DEEZ.  go telemarket or something.

this means you CB

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#9 UPDATE Employee

What is a Pyramid Scheme?

AUTHOR: YPRgMoney - ()

pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying any real investment or sale of products or services to the public.

Various forms of pyramid schemes are illegal in many countries including the United States

These types of schemes have existed for at least a century, some with variations to hide their true nature, and because of this, many people believe that all multilevel marketing plans are also pyramid schemes.

VeMMA does not promise any money. I am a brand partner, I came up with nothing and making it in this business. It is not a Pyramid Scheme, you guys already said you get products in the mail. Unfortunately, most of your parents have filled your head with nonsense as you grew up. Yes, there is an income disclosure the new income disclosure states, "Results not typical, your results may vary. The success or failure of each individual is dependent on their own efforts. The company has generally expected results which can be obtained by visiting www.vemma.com" Verbatim.

That means the company is not responsible for YOUR Failure. There are only 2 ways you can fail in this business and that is IF YOU QUIT or you are LAZY and do not do ANYTHING. I was at a point where I wanted to QUIT but I realized that I would be at the same position I was before I started. Broke, Homeless, and hating my job. Therefore I stuck with it and stuck with the training which is provided for you if YOU take initiative and get in contact with your leaders.

Now I have over 200 people in my network and am picking out a BRAND NEW BMW. Another thing I was quite intrigued by was the face that you said you have to maintain sales for the company to continue sending you your Car Bonus. Hmm, let's think like you were the owner of the company. You gave one of your partners a car. They slacked off. Why would you continue to support luxury for them if they are being LAZY? I wouldn't.

This is a very fun and rewarding opportunity. I am terribly sorry that you were lazy and did nothing and didn't get in contact with your leaders so by quitting was your version of slandering the company into being a pyramid scheme. That's cool. I really do hope you open your mind because if you really get serious about this and make it a priority you will be successful. You have to drive the wheel. Don't recreate it. 

Thanks for your time. 

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#10 General Comment

Vemma is a pyramid scheme

AUTHOR: vladchv - (United States of America)

Not two hours ago, a text with a link to the vemma website with a video was sent. The text said watch the video and get back to me. So I watched the video and did some research, which is how I ended up here.

Much like in the poorly written article above, the video mentioned a friend that had joined vemma but in this particular version his friend recruited him. The man in the video has the title of "Ambassador" under his name, and the very first thing he talks about is how people that join "start their own business, set their own times, be their own boss, set their own income, and literally make as much money as they want" (this is repeated verbatim, this is the initial hook of almost every pyramid scheme I've ever seen or heard of uses.

The first step the video describes says to go after your friends and family members to not only get them to buy the product but also recruit them. He goes on to explain how "17 months ago" he was just like the viewer and describes how on his start out he invited 50 people to a party for the product, "25 told me they'd show up, 10 came, 6 said no, 4 said yes, and now we have turned that into thousands of college and high school kids in 1 years time..." (again verbatim). My first problem with that is that he said 17 months the first time, and then he says 1 year. My second problem is that while he's going on about this party a fine print disclaimer appears at the bottom of the screen which states that the results are not typical and results may vary, which is the safe net the company is using because people tend not to read the fine print.

He then goes on to explain how these people are making around or upwards of 100,000 a year, and saying that if he can do it then you can to. He closes the video with "there are 3 types of people in this world, people who make things happen, watch things happen, and people who go what the heck just happened, you're one of 'em, make the right decision, this is gonna be big"(yet again I repeat this verbatim) and then it transitions to a screen telling you to text your friend back. 

As for the common argument that I notice of how much money the company has made in such a short period of time, that is also a sign of a pyramid scheme. Regardless of celebrities endorsing the product or promoting it, this just means that although it's a scheme they do have a good product. Vector aka CutCo also generates an extremely large amount of money and has an extraordinary product, but their marketing system is a pyramid scheme, one of my friends lost lots of money through them while another one of my friends played the game and made lots of money through them.

Regardless of how well or how bad you do through this program it is a pyramid scheme.
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#11 Author of original report

income disclosure broken down

AUTHOR: Karen - (United States of America)

In order to be considered active, you must have an Auto-delivery base order with a 60 reward point minimum order every five (5) weeks. Platinum and above Brand Partners are considered active if they have an Auto-delivery base order with 120 reward points every five (5) weeks. A 60 reward point or 120 reward point order will activate your account for four (4) volume periods including the volume week in which the order is placed, plus one (1) volume week grace period. As an active Brand Partner, you can accrue volume from sales that occur under you in your power leg. Active Brand Partners (U.S.) Leader Rank

Remember a brand partner has to be on auto payment of product of 60.00/ mo. That's 720.00 a year minimum you pay to be a brand partner. So theoretically u can deduct that from your annualized average earnings!

Annualized Average Earnings Member 29.88% $421.18 Bronze Leader 43.00% $954.99 Silver Leader 11.35% $3,071.57 Gold Leader 7.39% $5,960.56 Diamond Leader 4.81% $11,645.84 Platinum Leader 1.20% $33,519.31 Star Platinum 0.60% $31,067.55 Executive 0.70% $45,948.87 Star Executive 0.28% $70,195.04 Presidential 0.30% $101,591.67 Star Presidential 0.10% $166,591.39 Ambassador 0.17% $222,121.55 Star Ambassador 0.11% $388,181.87 Royal Ambassador 0.11% $1,040,056.14
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#12 Author of original report

Sorry for sending 1st draft IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS

AUTHOR: Karen - (United States of America)

With much work finally able to copy and paste following:

College students beware u r the latest target for their hard sell with Verve.

Educate yourself!

I do drink Vemma products when I can afford them. I initially became interested in becoming a BP to "drink for free" and make a little $. It took me many many hours and several hundred dollars to come to the conclusion that what I was really involved in.

2011 INCOME DISCLOSURE POLICY OF U.S. BRAND PARTNERS Vemma offers its Brand Partners an opportunity to achieve a lifetime of better health through its clinically studied, single formula, Vemma products. While many of our Brand Partners join the Vemma family simply to enjoy our life- changing products, others want to share their results and take advantage of the many income benefits our business opportunity provides. With Vemma, you can work part-time and earn a supplemental income, or focus solely on your Vemma Brand Partnership and increase your financial potential. Its completely up to the individual how much he or she wants to achieve! Our business model is designed to reward our Brand Partner by giving them an opportunity to purchase Vemma products at wholesale and reselling them at retail. If the Brand Partner wants to increase his or her involvement in the business and enjoy the possibility of higher levels of income, he or she may sponsor others into the business and develop an organization. There are two forms of income with Vemma immediate income and long term income. Our plan is based on the simple two (2) team building concept - a left side team and a right side team. Since there are just two (2) teams to build, this creates excitement as new Brand Partners join, one after the other, down team lines, helping more people benefit from the volume and creating greater leverage within the plan. In order to be considered active, you must have an Auto-delivery base order with a 60 reward point minimum order every five (5) weeks. Platinum and above Brand Partners are considered active if they have an Auto-delivery base order with 120 reward points every five (5) weeks. A 60 reward point or 120 reward point order will activate your account for four (4) volume periods including the volume week in which the order is placed, plus one (1) volume week grace period. As an active Brand Partner, you can accrue volume from sales that occur under you in your power leg. Active Brand Partners (U.S.) Leader Rank Percent of Average Earners Per 4 Week Period Annualized Average Earnings Member 29.88% $421.18 Bronze Leader 43.00% $954.99 Silver Leader 11.35% $3,071.57 Gold Leader 7.39% $5,960.56 Diamond Leader 4.81% $11,645.84 Platinum Leader 1.20% $33,519.31 Star Platinum 0.60% $31,067.55 Executive 0.70% $45,948.87 Star Executive 0.28% $70,195.04 Presidential 0.30% $101,591.67 Star Presidential 0.10% $166,591.39 Ambassador 0.17% $222,121.55 Star Ambassador 0.11% $388,181.87 Royal Ambassador 0.11% $1,040,056.14 The amounts above are in addition to and do not include profits earned on the resale of products to consumers or other Brand Partners. The figures stated above are not a guarantee nor are they a projection of a typical Brand Partners earnings or profits. Like any other independent business, the achievement or failure of a Brand Partner depends upon his or her skill set, commitment and desire to succeed. At Vemma, the opportunity to earn more is always available to each and every Brand Partner. For more information on Vemmas Referral Bonus Program, please go to http://www.vemma.com/backoffice/pdf/compensationPlan.pdf.

You do the math!

I also hav a connection to a government analysis of MLMshttp://www.mlmwatchdog.com/files/FTC_Letter.pdf
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#13 General Comment

To good to be true? It is...

AUTHOR: Chris - (USA)

BMoney91, now that is an educated response, not like the responder right before you who I ignored. I did not just skim through the website. I was actually researching the company as one of my close friends was asked to join in on this "great opportunity" and I wanted  make sure I looked at everything, that way I could give my opinion on the venture. 

I wanted to write a formal response to your post, but just like my first posting, going formal requires too much time as well as effort. So just like my first rebuttal I will just run through and debate accordingly to your own posting, which might lead to a little disorganization, but I am not too worried about that. Please do not take any of this to heart, I am just expressing my thoughts opposed to those you have laid out. Also this time I am not really going to quote anything, as I will take my info from what you have written. 

Let's start with you quoting my statement on "recruiting your own competition." You must realize that this is the case. Back and forth NO MATTER WHAT you rationalize the more people that enter the less people there are to bring in, please disprove this logic to me if you know how. A pyramid scheme is illegal and there are many good reasons as to why, and you successfully pointed out its main flaw: products. MLM's escape pyramid classification as they contain a product, like you said. What that means is that you do not need to recruit people in order to make money but let's face it, if you want to make the most money like your apparent heroes Alex and Bryce, you need to recruit people (like they have done so well). That even comes across throughout your post where you focus on your six recruits. You even point out a little pyramid of yourself when saying that if one of your "recruits" recruits someone else that you would not care as you would both benefit. So that in my eyes means that no matter what, none of your recruits could EVER make as much as you, correct? In turn that means if you buddy Bryce brought you in then you could NEVER make as much as him, see how it is scalable. So even when you say that you have given away recruits to your core six they are still your recruits in the end, just further down the chain.  

Now on to paragraph number three, where you almost had a good point but f***ed up a bit.  Like I said at the end of my first post, Vemma doesn't really scam people, at least not in a direct way. BPs go to places that have a ton of people with similar thoughts and beliefs, for example colleges, churches, etc. This is nothing new, it's just a strategy, and a good one at that. It is easy to gain peoples friendship when you share similarities, I know, I do it all the time. A perfect example is you bringing in your six friends as all of you are similar in one way or another, otherwise you would not be friends. I can almost guarantee that you are either in college or you go to some congregation, and that of course is where you heard of Veema.

Now where you say that McDonalds advertising to "fat people" is the same thing as advertising to colleges and people who need money, you lose me. I do not understand how a fat person (the consumer) compares to someone like you who is supposed to be selling the product not consuming it. You are the middleman in this situation while "fat man" is the end user essentially.

As for the 54% of college students not having jobs, please don't tell me Vemma is your solution. That would create a horrible bubble that would pop in the future making a worse economy than we have now. Yeah the economy sucks, but that's the cycle it goes up and down. It's up to those that are smart to ride the high points and prepare for the lows. I am pretty confident that you are in college so if you take any ECON class that will be one of the fundamental lessons. Plus you would learn about those unemployment rates, they are measured in some pretty weird ways.

So now onto paragraph four.

You say that Vemma is not trying to lead people on into thinking that they are their own business, but reading through your whole paragraph you just disproved me and yourself all at once. I had no idea that you guys were issued w-9 forms. If I am not mistaken that means that at the end of the year you are issued a 1099. I actually do not have much knowledge on tax forms and what not, which is why I have an accountant, but with a 1099, you are essentially a business, just through yourself, hence the ability to write off expenses. If Vemma is 1099ing then I assume they are paying you in some way which means that they are expensing every dollar that you make, which is awesome. They are making money off you on two fronts. Many companies pay people like this as only you are paying 13% instead of half on you and half on the company as an employee, then on top of that you pay gets expensed when you are 1099. So even though you say at the end those who think that they are businesses are wrong, well actually they technically are. lol

Paragraph five.

I cannot remember what I came across for the actual sales when I was looking but $117mil sounds about right. None of the sources that I had found seemed reputable enough for me to cite, but for sure there was no $250mil like Alumni55 stated.

I do not write things for others to see without having some sort of source behind it and I assume the same for others. So since  Alumi55 had no source and I could not backup his/her information then I went ahead and claimed it inaccurate. Thanks for pointing out a more reasonable number that I can conclude as a possible truth on your end and another person helping me to put false claim on Alumni55.

As for the BBB rating that is something that I again only brought up because of Alumni55.

He said something and I went to prove it wrong. I don't really care for BBB and do not care much for the way it works however you say that Vemma's rating reflects no rating for not having sufficient info, and yet they had a rating only a few weeks before I checked it you say? It does not say that they are under review, so by displaying insufficient information I can only assume that the current status has been the same for quite a while unless you can prove otherwise. I have laid out what I was able to find, maybe you know where to
find past ratings or something, like I said I do not care much for BBB. I of course included the link as proof, which you have just confirmed.

Paragraph six.

I apologize if I made my point incorrectly but when I said "not paying for it anymore", I was implying that he was not buying the product to sell. I mean he could still buy the drink if he liked it that much and it made him feel that good I suppose. I myself would not want to do anything with the company out of principle, but then I again I have not found myself in this kind of situation, so I know how I would want to act, but that does not mean that is how I would.

I do not think that I said anything about people recommending network marketing (aka MLM's) not being smart. Truth be told they are a great money maker, it is just about getting in the right one at the right time. If I were to get into Amway now then I would not make that much money, although if I had gotten into Veema back when it first popped up then who knows, I might be on your side.

As for thesaying "BMW Qualified" everywhere, that just bothers me I suppose.  Being a BMW owner, I was kind of surprised that BMW would back this kind of company. Kind of the same way that someone might not buy a product because of where it is built. That bothered me personally, so I included it in my write up, and let's face it that is tricky marketing, which you could argue many companies use, but I was just pointing it out in this case.

As for the car program, the only reason I am unable to comment to much on it is because I have no idea what the 120 reward points equates to. From what I can gather it is an amount that would be much more than $500 since the buy in is $500 to even be eligible plus Veema would be out of business if they gave away cars. Knowing the point conversion would allow me to make a more accurate assessment so if
anyone wants to fill me in...


SEO is something that I am very familiar with(no need to explain it to me), which is why I said that Veema dominates google. They have been very effective in making sure they are at the very top of every page until you get way into page ten where I found this article originally.

So here you call me lazy, ehh we all have our own opinions. Some would say I am not, but whatever. I mean you do seem to agree with the other Veema advocates, which all state that success is no easy thing. So if you do believe that, which I am pretty confident you do, then you have inadvertently complemented me, which I say thank you. Running a business is hard.

I am going to use Alumni55 as an example since he/she was so quick to throw down incomes.

Alumni55 boasts about 15k in 6 months, but let's not forget about taxes, which we ALL PAY. If Veema pays you and then 1099's you at the end of the year you unfortunately owe 13% of your adjusted income, not 7% like an employee. Then let's not forget about how you do not have any kind of health insurance or benefits. In this scenario a lot more money can be made working a real job, I know as these were my numbers not long ago, and I was in college full time, while working full time, so a similar situation (in that aspect).

When you ask how many jobs have I created, I must say that I have created more than your buddy Bryce (in this situation), as earlier you stated you guys receive w-9's, so you have no real job, you are contracted independently. If Veema went out of business tomorrow (which I know it won't) then you will not receive unemployment, you would be on your own.

As for the paying for leased cars. Come on, are you telling me that that is better than getting a retirement plan ready, or saving money on your own. You say that Bryce helped these people into these cars, no dude. It's not that hard to get a lease for these cars, and you are putting YOUR name on it. So when you f*** up
and don't have your 120 points Veema is going to say f you and not pay it that month, where then if you don't pay it your credit gets screwed up. Plus in the end you never end up owning the car, so not that great of an investment.  Although cars as investments are not that great to begin with, different topic though.

Lastly, for you calling me uneducated, that is fine, once again your opinion. Please note I never insult your intelligence in this post, just debate what you have to say, I expect the same respect.

Credibility is something that I think neither you or I can claim, as no matter what both us are out for ourselves. It is hard to find selflessness in the world as there theoretically is no such thing. In the end everyone will do what gives them the most satisfaction. I point this out because the satisfaction I receive is hopes that this info I lay out helps others make more informed decisions. I don't know if I can say the same for the others intentions though.  
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#14 UPDATE Employee

Where do I begin?

AUTHOR: BMoney91 - (United States of America)

First of all, not sure how much credibility you have.. looks like you don't know much about the company and merely skimmed the website and a couple other sources? Lets see how this goes. Vemma doesn't tell you how easy/difficult it is to recruit BPs. It's almost entirely based off your relationship with your friends or how good you are at making new ones. You claim that with MLMs you are essentially "recruiting your competition" when in reality you are recruiting team members to help build your (and technically, their) organization.

You understand people make money based on the volume of orders going out under them (whether directly recruited or not) every month? Thus, even if one of my "recruits" recruits a mutual friend of ours, I would care less because we both benefit. In fact, after getting my core group of 6 friends on board, I've given a couple of them my recruits because it matters more to me that they have success than me making a quick buck. You call that competition? The only competition we have is to see who can get the most sign ups in a day. 

This was awesome though: "This company is obviously a scam in the way it advertises to people who need money as well as to demographics that are known to have many contacts, i.e. college students." First of all, the company doesn't do any advertising itself, the BPs do, so your beef is with a few individual BPs, not the company. Furthermore, of course they are advertising to people who need more money and college students! This economy sucks, 54% of college grads can't find a job, and isn't getting better soon IMO. People need this. In fact, direct sales have increased dramatically during this recession because people have nothing else to turn to and sometimes find this works. And you're saying Vemma recruiting these people is bad, when McDonalds advertises to fat people and liquor companies advertise to alcoholics...

While people don't file for a business entity, Vemma isn't necessarily trying to lead people on that they own their own business, per se. Rather, I would say they're telling BPs that it's their responsibility to grow their team (business) and Vemma, nor any other BPs, will do it for them. Also, to be successful in this business you need to be a leader (like someone who runs their own business). Also, BPs get W-9 tax forms instead of the employee W-2 form; writing off business expenses and what not in these tax forms might lead people to believe they're business owners... They're not correct, but no harm there. 

As for the $250 mil, that's our projected sales for 2013 so it's not correct (we finished at $117 mil last year I believe). In December, I saw Vemma had an A+ rating. You're correct they have 'No Rating' now, but it's for not having sufficient info to give a rating, not for the complaints filed against them like you say (15 in the last 3 years, BTW). As for us in these communities being "crazy"... As Alex Morton would say: fine. Call me crazy, call me a psychopath, insane, whatever. We call it passion. We're making money and making a positive difference in so many lives. Unless you make millions (OK, even 100,000s) of dollars through residual income, I'm not too concerned with what you or others think. 

It's funny that you say the author is smart for not paying for it anymore when they say in the second sentence "I started to drink product and I do drink Bode Daily and it has helped me." The product helps him, but he's smart for not buying it anymore? And would you say that people who recommend network marketing aren't smart? Because Trump, Kiyosaki, Buffett, and Branson all recommend network marketing. And I don't really understand what your point is with the BMW badges. Vemma has a car program and makes your payments on a BMW, Benz, or Mini of your choice after you hit a certain rank in the co. What, should Vemma hide this awesome incentive because they're not officially affiliated with those care companies? 

Your arguments are really lazy and lack a lot of support (where did you find out Vemma "dominates" Google? Which, BTW, is the same thing most businesses do with SEO). Network marketing is supported by some of the greatest investors in the U.S. and yet I always see you and others complain about it, for whatever reason. I do appreciate small business owners (my dad is one) but you can't get much more snarky than your comment of "'real' business owner". How many jobs have you created and how many lives are you making better? In just 10 months, my friend Bryce Majdick has helped 37 people under the age of 25 get into brand new BMWs and Benzs, as well as helping 100s of others make solid money as well. It's very clear that you don't know much about Vemma and for you to think you do makes you look very uneducated, Chris. 
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#15 UPDATE Employee

Vemma? Farthest thing from a Pyramid Scheme!

AUTHOR: Anonymous - (United States of America)

 I have never read something more incorrect and ignorant in my life. You obivoiusly were not a good or even decent team if you have had such a horrible experience. You have to remember that in this company it is all about the efforts that YOU put into your work. Pyramid schemes straight up tell you from the get go, it's a get rich quick business. Vemma is far from a get rich quick business, if you were trained properly then you would have been told that. Just so everyone knows you only pay the Silver Pack Fee (500) once. You pay 150 after the first month for all your products. Might I remind everyone here that Pyramid Schemes are ILLEGAL. That means that whoever has been apart of this business at all would be in Federal Prison. Do you really think that people like The Phoenix Suns, The Buffalo Bills, Dr. Oz, and Oprah Winfrey would put their names and reputations on the line for a so called small business Pyramid Scheme? Whoever wrote this needs to remember that just because you have had a bad experience with a company does not make them an illegal and bad company. Some jobs are not meant for everyone. I have had nothing but great experiences with Vemma and I can't wait to see where this company takes me! I'm so blessed that I have the top leaders in the company on my team and that I am apart of the fastest growing team in the company!!! Love my Vemma Dream Team<3 Racke'mmmm!

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#16 General Comment

Who here is really uneducated

AUTHOR: Chris - (USA)

A pyramid scheme by definition is a company that promises profit solely on the referral of others. Meaning that the company stated in the article could not legally be defined as a pyramid scheme since participants do not need to refer anyone in order to theoretically succeed. This is not something that is new, as stated in the article it could be defined as a multilevel marketing strategy. It is obvious from their website that they are advertising a product, but looking around you can find that there are substantial bonuses for bringing in other "brand partners," which is not easy to find as they mask it very well behind made up levels and point systems. They also do a very good job as stated above at dominating Google with links that
say they are not a scam.

The article, the first rebuttal as well as the last one all make good points. That it's really up to the person to sell the product and they really do decide their own success. The best product/idea can't succeed without hard work to support it. Comparing this to a subway franchise however is a horrible comparison. With an MLM you are practically recruiting your own competition. There are only so many people that can sell the same product. "[A] franchise is a distribution channel to build brand identity and attain market dominance for a product or service by providing proven systems," (Pat Deering), thus supporting each other, not competing.

This company is obviously a scam in the way it advertises to people who need money as well as to demographics that are known to have many contacts, i.e. college students. They give people the idea that they are running their own businesses when in reality they are consumers re-selling. Unless you register in the state as a legitimate entity you are not a business, and for you to think so makes you look uneducated Alumni55.

Alumni55 states that Vemma did 250mil in sales which I have no idea where he got that from. As for them being rated with an A on BBB that is also wrong as they are currently unrated for complaints against them. With lies in the beginning of your rebuttal I can only assume you lie about your 14k in 6 months. This brings me to my last point. That people in these communities are crazy. They help the company thrive by spreading lies on their own success when the truth is they
are failing and just can't admit it to others and sometimes even themselves.

So Alumni55, you ask why they havent been shut down if they are a scam, that's because they are not scamming anyone, people like you are. 

A "real" small business owner & college student

By the way, don't insult on the authors grammar, he's already smarter for not paying for that s**t anymore

Here is the BBB Grade


And this I thought was funny. All over the website you see BMW badges but in this document they say they have no affiliation with BMW, Merc or Mini on the last page. 

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#17 Consumer Comment

Your "franchise" YOUR buisness

AUTHOR: Chrisentrpreneur - (United States of America)

Considering the grammar the author of that article is not very educated. His points arn't very buisness minded. They do have Sams club? But thats besides the point. In order to succeed in verve you have to know your why. If you set out to be the next Ray Lewis how are you going to do that? 1% make it in pro football? In order to succeed your pasion and belief should be an all time high. Noone pressures you into buying as much product as possible. You choose the product that you enjoy, recommend it to friends, and share the opportunity. You network is built off of brand partners and customers. You get paid to drink you are a consumer. If you join verve and don't do the work and time to succeed you will not. A small percent of people may succeed correct? How may of those people would rather smoke, drink, and party or live life rather than put in blood sweats and tears. Buisnesses only fail when you let them. A buisness is on you if what your doing isn't working change it. If i wanted to make the next taco bell its possible but whats required? Well simple for me to work my freaking butt off. Its financial freedom not a paycheck. YOU do the work and you get rewarded. As we always say "Im not saying its easy but im saying its worth it"
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#18 Author of original report

Could u run a subway like vemma corp

AUTHOR: Karen - (United States of America)

Open a subway, call employees brand partners, initial interview agree to buy 60.00 worth of subs a month and to earn $ you then have to not only sell subs but get customers to join the "sub club" every month for 60.00 or more of subs on a monthly basis. Mind you u have been there a while sold subs no one signed up for "sub club". Subway suggests you buy a gold package of subs to give away to potential subway club partners then u will surely make money.

A couple months later you have subs up to your ears, you have spent about a thousand bucks, you've put in many many hours of selling, educating yourself at seminars that only cost you 39.00 (BYOS subs). Juggling your monthly debit for more product.

Subway says keep trying they know people (especially college students currently) making 4,000.00 week one name floats around of how they suddenly where making money in their sleep.

Meanwhile the owner of the subway and a few friends are flying in their corporate jet to Hawaii, or to watch a game at the Subway lounge.

You must be right alumni55 I am a stupid slacker who didnt give up soon enough!

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#19 General Comment

Uneducated Complaint

AUTHOR: Alumni55 - (United States of America)

First, pyramid schemes and scams are illegal. A company that did 250 million in sales last year would be shut down already. The Better Business Bureau rated Vemma with an "A". 

Secondly, a responsible person should be familiar with the return policy if you plan on returning it. 30-day money back and you send it back after 30 days? I don't see how that is the company's fault.

Lastly, sorry that you failed to make money. 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year and 95 percent fail within five years. Was it because you didn't work hard enough? Was it because you were doing it wrong? Or just unlucky? Whatever it is when opening up your own business there is always going to be a risk of failure.

Conclusion, if you opened up a Subway and you didn't make money the first 2 years, would you quit and call it a scam? There is a lot of people making a lot of money, you CAN make more money then people above you. But it is up to the individual, this is not for lazy people that give up. If it was THAT easy everyone in the world would be rich. You got to separate yourself from the average people to be different and great. 

-College Student that made $14,700 in past six months
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