Wachovia Bank Two of the many ways Wachovia is fleecing it's victims (customers). How to avoid and/or fight them North Hollywood California Internet

No, the world does not revolve around me, never meant to have anyone believe I think that. I am human and I admit to being naive about how the ATM fees worked. I am also able to admit a mistake, admit when I was wrong if proven so and debate like a mature adult if treated with basic respect, courtesy and dignity. In addition, I concede my point about the non-wachovia ATM fee. I do remember the bank even told me I would incur a fee for non Wachivia ATMs...what I failed to realize is when the machine asks if I accept the fee..that was not the only fee..it is my fault for not realizing there was the additional $2.00 fee charged by Wachovia as well. I am admitting it and will no longer complain about that fee..I was angry about all the other shananigins going on with this bank that when I noticed the additional ATM fee..it sent me over a little...but that topic is over as far as I am concerned and I gracefully concede...

As far as my other grievences with the bank..I still stand strong. I have not been convinced that the terms and conditions contract and keeping a register is enough of a defense for what is going on with the re-squencing, and the OD fees attatched to items that had funds available at the TIME of transaction. I think $35.00 fee per OD is a bit steep and I think this bank does use predetory tactics to target and bilk a specific "group" including but not limited to the elderly, those on SS, disability and/or other types of fixed income, paycheck to paycheck working class hit pretty hard by the reccesion, and yes I will say it..those too naive to read or fully understand the terms and conditions and were easily suckered into online banking with the premise that this will make things safe, easy and convenient. The only thing online banking has made easier..is for the banks to gouge us financially.

I say this next statement as a preemtive defense...and I also agree..that correct, if you don't spend more then you have in your account..the sequence would not matter, and you won't overdraft. No one needs to tell us that or to use a register..At least speaking for myself I am not asking for any advice on how to prevent overdraft fees, I already know how..and I am NOT complaining about the bank charging OD fees for overdrafting. I am complaing about the way they go about it to maximize the financial hurt on those most vunerable to overdraft..be it out of ignorance, error, a bogus merchant, or out of neccesity. The bank knows d**n well OD's are going to happen (well why else all these policies that bring in millions and billions from those fee's) and they are due a fee from an overdraft..but NOT when the funds were there to cover the purchase at the TIME of transaction.

I know I repete this often..but I would not have to if not for all the smoke screening and personal attacks. No one has yet to convince me that this should not be fought in a courtroom..many attempts and intimidation factors..but not convinced yet.

No, the world does not revolve around me, never meant to have anyone believe I think that. I am human and I admit to being naive about how the ATM fees worked. I am also able to admit a mistake, admit when I was wrong if proven so and debate like a mature adult if treated with basic respect, courtesy and dignity. In addition, I concede my point about the non-wachovia ATM fee. I do remember the bank even told me I would incur a fee for non Wachivia ATMs...what I failed to realize is when the machine asks if I accept the fee..that was not the only fee..it is my fault for not realizing there was the additional $2.00 fee charged by Wachovia as well. I am admitting it and will no longer complain about that fee..I was angry about all the other shananigins going on with this bank that when I noticed the additional ATM fee..it sent me over a little...but that topic is over as far as I am concerned and I gracefully concede...

As far as my other grievences with the bank..I still stand strong. I have not been convinced that the terms and conditions contract and keeping a register is enough of a defense for what is going on with the re-squencing, and the OD fees attatched to items that had funds available at the TIME of transaction. I think $35.00 fee per OD is a bit steep and I think this bank does use predetory tactics to target and bilk a specific "group" including but not limited to the elderly, those on SS, disability and/or other types of fixed income, paycheck to paycheck working class hit pretty hard by the reccesion, and yes I will say it..those too naive to read or fully understand the terms and conditions and were easily suckered into online banking with the premise that this will make things safe, easy and convenient. The only thing online banking has made easier..is for the banks to gouge us financially.

I say this next statement as a preemtive defense...and I also agree..that correct, if you don't spend more then you have in your account..the sequence would not matter, and you won't overdraft. No one needs to tell us that or to use a register..At least speaking for myself I am not asking for any advice on how to prevent overdraft fees, I already know how..and I am NOT complaining about the bank charging OD fees for overdrafting. I am complaing about the way they go about it to maximize the financial hurt on those most vunerable to overdraft..be it out of ignorance, error, a bogus merchant, or out of neccesity. The bank knows d**n well OD's are going to happen (well why else all these policies that bring in millions and billions from those fee's) and they are due a fee from an overdraft..but NOT when the funds were there to cover the purchase at the TIME of transaction.

I know I repete this often..but I would not have to if not for all the smoke screening and personal attacks. No one has yet to convince me that this should not be fought in a courtroom..many attempts and intimidation factors..but not convinced yet.

"Tough one to defend..I give you that. So my defense is moot on this one. But I have been with this bank since they were First Union..then 'Wack-off-on-ya' and now 'wells Fargo/'wack-off-on-ya' and I never had these kind of issues or noticed these fees until the last year or so."

So, you're saying that since you never noticed the fees (or bothered to read the bank's fee schedule), that they must be some new kind of scam. I haven't worked for a bank since 1983, but I can assure you that even then, both the owner of the ATM and the bank both charged a fee for using a non-branch ATM. It has been a common practice in ATM networks since they were invented. The only time you will not be charged is when you use a bank that doesn't have it's own ATM network. They will often absorb the ATM owner's fee as part of the cost of doing business. Interestingly, they will also tell you this if you bother to read their fee schedule.

"Tough one to defend..I give you that. So my defense is moot on this one. But I have been with this bank since they were First Union..then 'Wack-off-on-ya' and now 'wells Fargo/'wack-off-on-ya' and I never had these kind of issues or noticed these fees until the last year or so."

So, you're saying that since you never noticed the fees (or bothered to read the bank's fee schedule), that they must be some new kind of scam. I haven't worked for a bank since 1983, but I can assure you that even then, both the owner of the ATM and the bank both charged a fee for using a non-branch ATM. It has been a common practice in ATM networks since they were invented. The only time you will not be charged is when you use a bank that doesn't have it's own ATM network. They will often absorb the ATM owner's fee as part of the cost of doing business. Interestingly, they will also tell you this if you bother to read their fee schedule.

"Tough one to defend..I give you that. So my defense is moot on this one. But I have been with this bank since they were First Union..then 'Wack-off-on-ya' and now 'wells Fargo/'wack-off-on-ya' and I never had these kind of issues or noticed these fees until the last year or so."

So, you're saying that since you never noticed the fees (or bothered to read the bank's fee schedule), that they must be some new kind of scam. I haven't worked for a bank since 1983, but I can assure you that even then, both the owner of the ATM and the bank both charged a fee for using a non-branch ATM. It has been a common practice in ATM networks since they were invented. The only time you will not be charged is when you use a bank that doesn't have it's own ATM network. They will often absorb the ATM owner's fee as part of the cost of doing business. Interestingly, they will also tell you this if you bother to read their fee schedule.

Ronny, companies and individuals are allowed to setup their own ATM machines and the use of those ATM machines is not free. I know because a company I used to work for had one in the building and the machine charged a fee on top of any fee imposed by the bank. Those ATM's are indeed a rip off. But it's not a ripoff if you purposely decide to choose one of those ATM's; you are alerted to the fee and you have the choice to use that ATM, or not to.

My concern regarding the credit union is that many credit unions are adopting the same policies as banks; they were not bailed out and the companies or industries that created them are either reducing or stopping their subsidization. As a result, they are being asked to be for-profit entities like their 'bank' cousins. One great thing is that the fees used to be about half of a bank - now the difference is between $5-$8 per OD and closing in. Further, as Robert said, many of them are resequencing debits also and whichever CU isn't...will be soon. In exchange, their services were fewer for the account holder. If a CU works better for you, then absolutely use it. If not, absolutely use a bank.

Scam #2 happens with just about every bank out there. Seriously. This bank doesn't own the franchise on setting up accounts wrong. Again, this takes vigilence on the part of the account holder to watch their money.

Ronny, you know I haven't worked for any bank in the past, present, or future. In the end, this is a matter of being disciplined about your bank account and your money. It belongs to you - not the bank. If people decide to give money to the bank, it is their choice (voluntary or not) and no lawsuit will change that now.

I am not a bank attorney, bank employee, nothing but a bank customer. I have been with both Banks and Credit Unions. If a Credit Union works better than a Bank for you great, if a Bank works better for others than a Credit Union then great. Just keep in mind that whether you want to believe it or not, with the exception of the fees Banks and Credit Unions operate basically the same way. There are government regulations they both must follow, and there are procedures that are basically standard practice in the financial industry.

As for Class Action Lawsuits, I don't care if you file it or not. Just that based on the history of everyone who claims that they are going to file, are talking to lawyers, or want to join a suit. It rarely gets past the point of this talk. If you do then you are the exception and please do update everyone.

As to the comments on your Credit Union.
"One time per month overdraft forgiveness"
- Great, but when was the last time someone that overdrafted had "one" overdraft?

"No fee checking."
- Which fees? Because I can guarantee you that that does not include overdraft fees(after the first one).

"All ATM fees instantly reimbursed."
- Good benefit, but really is needed with a CU because of their limited branches and ATM availability.

"No re-sequencing scam to name a few."
-The term "no re-sequncing scam" is probably not in their terms. So what do you have you seen that shows how they post. Because if they don't post Highest to Lowest I am sure a lot of people would love to know the name of your Credit Union. There are posts on this site about various Credit Unions and their "scam" in how they post transactions Highest to Lowest. Do you see as many..NO. But that is more of a case of them being a fraction of the size of these bigger banks, so they don't have as many customers. But even a couple show that they do post the same as banks. Again, I can not speak for your Credit Union so if are being told correctly, they are in the minority. But you need to be very diligent in verifying this before you "assume" it is correct.

"And I can overdraft. But that is OK if I don't get raked through the coals and back for an error.."
- I just had to comment on this one also. It is not okay to spend money you don't have. If you happened to write a paper check and the bank instead of paying it returned the check NSF. The company that you wrote the check to could pursue criminal charges for Check Fraud. Unfortunatly Debit Cards do not have the same laws covering them in this respect because the bank can't reject an authorized transaction. But if they did it would cause a lot of people to actually pay closer attention to their accounts.

Also, there are few Roberts on here. But at opposite ends of the country. I only say this because of your "drunk" comment, which I have never commented on.

You are..I try my best to understand you and keep an open mind..but you sometimes respond in a pretty condescending way..and an insulting way..and you defend this bank with such fervor and passion..I think you know better. But lets do a "rebuttal dissection" on where we differ...

Copied off CBS news dated Feb 9, 2009...

"Wells Fargo hit the jackpot. It was one of the first banks to get bailout funds - the biggest amount awarded in a single shot: $25 billion tax dollars."

"Troubled Wachovia has been bought out by Wells Fargo for $12.7 billion, creating the nation's second-largest bank in terms of deposits. But it might not have happened without the generous support of the federal government and your tax dollars".

Just had to throw that in..on to the meat...

Not interested in the terms and conditions..I know them already inside out..from either here..or the bank hitting me up..all well and good you posted it all to prove a point. But it doesn't make me feel any better about it..just more aware.


"First I am not now or ever have been an employee of this or any other bank"

So what are you?? A bank attorney?..or just in love with this bank that you defend it to the death? Which it is almost dead..might be dead before the lawsuit if Wells Fargo incorporates it's policies.


'..But to protect yourself take out enough cash for all the little things and try your best to keep enough money in the account to cover unexpected hidden fees.'
- This falls into the DUH category. Keep enough money in your account to cover the fees that they disclose....Genius, how in the world did you come up with that gem of an idea."

Duh..from people like you. I actually should not even have said that statement because anyone who doesn't know this already..is not going to learn it here...which is somewhat my point. No reason to be a sarcastic p***k about it bro.

'These fees are kept 'hidden' for a reason'
- They are not HIDDEN, as I said it took about 30 seconds to find the fee schedule. If they were hidden how in the world did I find them?

Tough one to defend..I give you that. So my defense is moot on this one. But I have been with this bank since they were First Union..then "Wack-off-on-ya" and now "wells Fargo/"wack-off-on-ya" and I never had these kind of issues or noticed these fees until the last year or so. This was at one time a great bank. Actually before they SUCKERED me (my fault I know) into online banking..I loved the fact that there was never a line in the bank. But in hindsight i should have realized it was because they were a FAIL, not because there service was so spectacular.

"Now onto what you call SCAM 2 - Free Checking refers to the monthly maintenance fee. It does not get you out of any fees that you may incurr. As for your particular issue. The bank did exactly what it was supposed to do. Fix the error and refund all of your fees. I want to make this point very clear. In this case the bank did make a mistake. But they fixed it by refunding the fees that were caused by it."

'Now here is the BEST way to avoid all these scams and schemes. TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY OUT OF THIS BANK.....CLOSE THE ACCOUNT..and use a CREDIT UNION !!!!!!! ADVISE EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO DO THE SAME.'


"-Credit Unions operate the same way. There 'fees' may be lower. But even if their OD fee was $1 that is $1 more than you need to pay if you manage your account correctly."

Weak defense Robert..I know you are better then that. That is so weak it doesn't even warrant a response. You read the terms and conditions of a credit union and A/B it to a bank like "wack-off-on-ya" and tell me who the bigger rip off is. Well you would probably say neither. But the credit union I just joined makes Wachovia and most banks seem like the biggest rip off..I only wish I knew about them sooner.

For example..off the top of my head...One time per month overdraft forgiveness (in case myself the "genius" makes a boo boo because it can happen right?, I am such an irresponsible drunk). No fee checking. All ATM fees instantly reimbursed. No re-sequencing scam to name a few.

I know you are the Lord of advice for banking and are so perfect..but in reality overdrafts happen..and yes not using a bank or credit union will prevent overdrafts. But I WANT to and CHOOSE to as my right as an American use a credit union over a rip off bank. And I can overdraft. But that is OK if I don't get raked through the coals and back for an error..or if I am a few dollars short at months end and overdraft out of necessity. I should not FEAR my bank..but I do. Hence I will go to keep my money and do my finances at a safer place for me. I do not mind or fear an overdraft fee..I fear IF...I say again IF I overdraft..I do not get the cascade of the re-sequencing SCAM, SHAM, TERM..whatever you wish to call it..you know what I am talking about I imagine..been through this over and over..do you get it yet???

As far as the lawsuit info..I can't figure out yet if you are trying to call some kind of bluff on me..or concerned for other motives...but I think you can tell I am a pretty persistent person. You can stop asking about court date places and docket numbers..NONE OF THAT IS DECIDED YET on this particular suit. We are gathering testimony and evidence from hundreds of customers..this is going to take time..and it will happen..unless this issue is settled by law changes before we even have to see a courtroom...which would be the best situation..I despise lawyers with all I have..and not a big fan of the courtroom either..but onward and upward until something is done. I don't give up easy and may have the right lawyers for this I hope..because most of them suck.

First I am not now or ever have been an employee of this or any other bank.

What you call Scam 1 - The do disclose the fee.
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Open your account today with $100
The minimum opening deposit for Free Checking is $100, then you'll enjoy:

No minimum balance
No monthly service charge
No Direct Deposit required
Avoid Fees with Overdraft Protection
We know that things happen, so we've made it easy for you to avoid overdrawing your Wachovia Free Checking account. Simply link it to another Wachovia deposit or credit account to avoid overdraft charges.

First time NSF/Overdraft fees without overdraft protection can cost you $22. With overdraft protection, you pay a lower Transfer Fee instead:

Source of Overdraft Protection Funds Transfer Fee
Another Wachovia checking, savings or money market account $10 per transaction
Wachovia Line of Credit $10 per transaction
Wachovia Credit Cardtransfer amount will be treated as cash advance $10 per transaction
(charged to credit card)

In addition to the above, you can sign up for free Balance Alerts through Online Banking with BillPay, and receive your account balance daily or be notified when your account balance falls above or below the amount you set.

Checking Account Transaction Fees
Stop Check Payment, $25-$31 depending on state
Standard Checks, $18-$20
Non-Wachovia ATM Withdrawals or Inquiries, $2 note 6
Incoming Domestic Wires, $10-$15 depending on state
Outgoing Domestic Wires, $25
For a complete list of fees, please request the Schedule of Fees and Funds Availability from 800-WACHOVIA (800-922-4684).

Note 6: When you make a transaction or balance inquiry at an ATM not owned by Wachovia, we may charge you a fee and you may be charged a fee by the ATM owner or operator

https://sites.wachovia.com/checking/free-checking-account.html#panel3

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Notice the "Non-Wachovia ATM Withdrawals or Inquiries, $2". By the way this took about 30 seconds of searching on their Web site to find it, it is also provided to you when you open an account and they will also provide this with you if you go into the branch and ask. Not to mention the phone number they provide right on the web site.

"But that is going to change..many class action suits are underway..and we are the type of people that don't roll over easy, they would have to kill me first."
- Oh yea? How many suits have actually are currently open? Or are you talking about the people who just say "I want to join a Class Action Lawsuit" and then do absoutly nothing about it.

"..But to protect yourself take out enough cash for all the little things and try your best to keep enough money in the account to cover unexpected hidden fees."
- This falls into the DUH category. Keep enough money in your account to cover the fees that they disclose....Genius, how in the world did you come up with that gem of an idea.

"These fees are kept "hidden" for a reason"
- They are not HIDDEN, as I said it took about 30 seconds to find the fee schedule. If they were hidden how in the world did I find them?

Now onto what you call SCAM 2 - Free Checking refers to the monthly maintenance fee. It does not get you out of any fees that you may incurr. As for your particular issue. The bank did exactly what it was supposed to do. Fix the error and refund all of your fees. I want to make this point very clear. In this case the bank did make a mistake. But they fixed it by refunding the fees that were caused by it.

"Now here is the BEST way to avoid all these scams and schemes. TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY OUT OF THIS BANK.....CLOSE THE ACCOUNT..and use a CREDIT UNION !!!!!!! ADVISE EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO DO THE SAME."
-Credit Unions operate the same way. There "fees" may be lower. But even if their OD fee was $1 that is $1 more than you need to pay if you manage your account correctly.

This has to do with the ATM fees. If you still will not heed my warning and close your account, let me tell you another story. To avoid the hidden "double" fee if using a "non-Wachovia" ATM machine..I have been trying my best to only use Wachovia or Wells Fargo machines..those will have no fee. What happened last night is I went to withdraw $300 dollars cash and the machine stated "this transaction can not be copleted at this time" or something to that effect. I tried the other machine next to it and same thing. So I went to a 7/11 ATM (had to pay the double fee..needed the money for rent) and it did not let me take out $300..but it did $200. So I went home to check my online statement and seems the $300 dollar transaction from the Wells Fargo ATM is being processed..EVEN THOUGH IT DID NOT DISPENSE ANY CASH. I of course called the bank and was told "sorry, the system is down..but I will file a dispute and you should have your money back in 2-3 days". Should??? 2-3 days??? So that is how it works...a mess up on their end and they hold my money until they see fit to return it. But God forbid I mess up (7 cents overdraft for example) and hold their money..I am charged fees and get the "overdraft avalanche". This is very unfair..and I am wondering if them holding my money unjustly like this does not constitute a form of theft. I WILL be contacting an attorney.

The only way I can think of to avoid this happening to you is only use the debit card at a branch when it is open so you are handed the cash by a teller. Or...CLOSE THE ACCOUNT AND USE A CREDIT UNION.