Wachovia OD NSF Fees are nothing but Loan Shark interest rates in disguise Cedar Park Texas

I have found that it if I carry cash that I withdrawl from the ATM or branch.. That it is next to impossible to overdraft. And if I run out of money well the only person I can blame is myself. If I absolutely have to pay by Visa/Mastercard I go and buy a gift card - or if needed I buy a money order. Cash is slowly becoming a memory, and our ability to be dependent and responsible for ourselves is slowly becoming less and less neccessary - or so we feel. But the truth is, if we rely on others or technology instead of ourselves then we just leave ourselves open to defer the responsibilities that we should have been keeping track of for ourselves. This means if I overdraft my account because I didn't know, that it's my fault. If I don't agree with the way things are done, well I can take my business elsewhere. But when it comes to banking it is completely foolish to do so based on the way I think things should be done. Businesses are in business to make money. But like the WB Employee said every bank or business has it's quirk. Just know what they are, and make it work.

Businesses rely on other businesses to do business. So what does that mean? That means that every once and awhile there are service breakdowns. I've experienced these, and I know better than to play the blame game. I had ordered a debit card and 3 weeks later I still didn't recieve it. I called the bank as I was upset, and mad because I was getting ready to leave the country early the next morning I knew there wasn't going to be any way they could get that card to me. It turns out the bank did ship the card to me, but the post office accidentally put it in the wrong mailbox. My neighbor brought it out as I was packing my luggage in my car. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can see where WB Employee is coming from. He understands the processes it would seem since he deals with them first hand. I being the consumer learn something new everytime something bad happens. Oh just imagine a world where everybody knew everything, I think we would have shorter life spans. WB Employee might like that, less people calling to complain about how they spent more money than they had.

A bank employee had told me that I could avoid overdrafts just by using the ATM, or making withdrawls at the branch. It was the best advice he could give me. Now I can put $35 here and there in a savings account instead of giving it to the bank.

I think if your going to live in a capitalist society you do as the capitalists do. Switch perspectives for a moment. The bank is a loan shark when it comes to overdraft fees? Fee's are a penalty, they are meant to be extreme because the bank doesn't want you to overdraft. I guarantee the first time you put your hand on something hot as a child you didn't continue to do it anymore. Well the bank shouldn't be teaching us morals, but it would seem that they have to because we just aren't learning as a whole. That and they are looking to strengthen their bottom line. These fees will continue to get larger as years pass because of inflation and because we continue to pay them. It's called survival of the fittest, and it's the way the world works. So use a register like WB Employee says, or do what I do and pay cash for everything, nobody is forcing us to write checks, or use a debit card.

I worked in the proof department of Key Bank for almsot 7 hears. Had to quit because of carpel tunnel.. My daughter still works there and does the corrections. Maybe Wachovia is different but I knwo that if a depost came into key bank by 5PM (especially the at the tellers ) it IS processed on Friday night. Unless a custome service person or a teller has actually worked in encoding (proof) they really do know know how the whole process wroks etc. You also said that a check is final NOT NECESSARILY. This is an example of what could ahppen and a reason why everyonw should reconcile their bak statement. Lets say you give someone a check for $100. and that person properly fills out the depost slip and deposits the money with the teller.

When the check comes into encoding the machine operator accidently encodes 2 extra 00' s making the check and the deposit slip 1000. instead of 100. If that was the only check that the person deposited since they would balance and it woudl nto be caught ( unless the check bounced and then it would be noticed. but in that case all you ahve to do is bring the check in and they will credit you back. But you can not wait forever. The average encoder runs about 3200 items an hour. So having to run taht fast mistakes can be made. My daughter said that on average she processes about 4500 errors a month about half are stupid customer errors..

We processed all the key bankes in Washington Oregon, Alaska, and Idaho and some special stuff from Colorado. All the work HAD to be done by midnight (unless it was late) and if not then the bak would get introuble with the feds. SO any deposit on a friday should be processin that night. Saturady and Sunday deposits on Monday. We also processed the atms and lock box, etcl Every transaction that the bank does has to go thru encoding first. Everything HAS to be processed every night. We even had contingency plans incase we could not sue our facility, the first was processing ant the Bank of America sight after they were thru and the second was flying the work and people to Cherryhill New Jersey to process the work

Just a little insight

To all those that complain because they don't think the fees they are being charged are fair, it's time to grow up, invest in a solar power calculator, and call your bank for a little advice on how not to bank - oh and while your at it ask for a check register; they are free, and if your missing money it's not because the bank stole it, it's because you should have bought a solar power calculator with a battery back up. I'll give you some very useful information too. Let me start of by saying that all banks, companies, and people have quirks. You either admire, tolerate, or hate. Banks don't make money on account holders that keep their balance near zero, and most often it is these customers that overdraft the most. And the people who keep lots of money, well they help offset those that no how to do math, don't overdraft, but don't necessarily keep that much money in there accounts. You can complain about what I'm saying, but at the same time how many banks are their that are open 24 hours a day to help you when your debit card is declined, or if you work graveyard and decide to call on your break. And of those other banks that are open 24 hours, how many of them have representatives that are taking your call from inside the USA? If we refunded every person who asked, especially the habitual ovedrafters well you can bet the customer service experience would be anything but domestic. You have to remember banks are a business. And they make there money through fee generation. Please keep in mind banking is similar to the news industry, if you wanna know what happened today call back tomorrow. Keep in mind when your dealing with any business their are terms and conditions, agree to to them - or do business elsewhere. And if you call 800/922-4684 we will gladly send you a schedule of fees, or whatever else you need.

Lesson one: If you overdraft your account accept responsibility for your negligence. If you call and blame me, or the bank for taking your money because you "assume" how things work - well that is negligence or ignorance.. Take your pick. But if you ask me what happened kindly, and accept then admit that your at fault, then you are more than likely going to find your customer service rep to be empathetic, and understanding - possibly giving. Oh and if you don't ask, we don't offer. And we can't tell you how everything works when you open your account because it is unrealistic and time consuming to do so. Besides that is what your disclosure, deposit agreement, and schedule of fees is for; it is your friend if you read it - we may look like the enemy if you don't.

Lesson two: The pen is mightier than the sword, rely on yourself and the only one you can blame is yourself. We'll send a checkbook register to you at no charge. All you do is write down your deposits, and subtract your withdrawals. It's what your parents did before the internet - or probably still do if they are paranoid. There's a reason they still write things down, they are responsible. I don't care who you bank with online banking is a tool not a substitute for a checkbook register, especially if you use a debit card.

People "Assume" that when they swipe their card or use thier card as Credit that the transaction is done and overwith. WRONG. Your friend the merchant just asked the bank if the money was available, they don't have your money yet. But if you were approved they are now guaranteed to get it - even if you spend it later. and only after they run batch and submit it to their credit card merchant. Which then the credit card merchant submits to the bank. This process takes about 2-4 business days, and Wachovia only holds Credit based debit card purchases for 1-3 business days.

But when we recieve it, that's when it posts. When it posts it's done and over with. This is where online banking comes in as only being a tool. Even if you check your account balance every day it will eventually fail you, and you will ovedraft. Oh, and online banking isn't all that's not accurate as a checkbook register substitute; the telephone automated system, and even we don't know your actual account balance. Do you know who does? If not, go get a mirror and look in it.

We have no idea if you have outstanding checks, or if you just paid a bill over the phone using your account number or routing number. Also back on the subject of debit cards, travel accomadations do not go on hold they just post. So if you book an airline flight, ride in a cab, stay at a hotel, or fill up your gas tank your account balance will not change until 24-72 hours or more has passed.

The credit card machine is not a crystal ball. And before it books your reservation, pumps your gas, or allows your cab ride to happen they have to verify the card is valid for a base amount 9/10 the amount is not the final total. Besides we don't know if you'll be staying in a hotel an extra day, or if your filling up a Geo Metro or a Cadilac Escalade. Debit cards add the convienence of the Visa network for quick access to your deposited funds. But originally the network was designed for Credit Cards. If you have any complaints about how the system works you can call Visa at 800/Visa-911.

Lesson three: Ovedraft fees, NSF Fees, Unavailable Funds Fees & Overdraft Protection. Remember how I mentioned each bank has it's quirks. Here's a few examples. I'll describe the horrors of other banks fees and you can tell me who's evil. U.S. Bank charges an overdraft fee, and a daily fee for each day that your account is overdrawn. It is either $5 or $10 /day. Either way the bank didn't force you to spend more than you had. Bank of America charges you an overdraft fee, and won't refund it until the fee has gone through processing which means if you made your deposit late and have no more to deposit that you could potentially have more overdraft fees. Not only that but their overdraft protection transfers in $10 increments w/ a $10 fee unlike Wachovia who does thier transfers in $1 increments w/ a $10 fee..

So this means if you have Bank of America's keep the change program and forget that it transfered your going to overdraft if you spend. Unlike Wachovia's new Way2Save program that won't ovedraft you and exempts your from overdraft protection fees. Excluding Federal Regulation D, if you don't know what Regulation D is google it.

Now back to the topic. An ovedraft fee is self explanitory, it's a fee your charged when your account goes negative or is negative. NSF Fees are the result of a check or auto debit that tries to come through when you don't have the money to cover them. NSF fees are assessed the day after the actual item returned. The reason is simple, checks can be subject to errors, and auto debits can be keyed by the originator incorrectly and thefore may need to be manually corrected in which case a fee would not be charged. And debit cards are different because the bank isn't responsible for merchant errors, the merchant is.

In either case you always can dispute a transaction; unless it's a check. Checks are final. A lot of people call in seeing they've been charged an NSF fee the same day there direct deposit is there. The check came through the day before, the deposit doesn't post until the night of the morning that you see it. Which means it wasn't available that night, and you arranged payment prior to actually having money. That's actually illegal - but because so many people break the law it is just impossible to enforce. But don't mess with check cashing place, they will put you in jail quicker than you can say, "Will you pick up that bar of soap?" and for some reason the customer who overdraft because of these companies consider the bank to be their enemy.

Lesson four: Where's my deposit? If you make a deposit after 2 p.m. it will not be processed until the next business night - you have until 4pm at the ATM. Which means you can not use your debit card off that deposit until the next day or the transactions that post may not be covered if your debit card holds exceed your posted balance. So if you have questions about availability call, ask, take down the name of the rep you spoke with and what they said, ask them to notate the account. Representative are there to help but on rare occasions a mistake is made. And for goodness sakes people if you made your deposit at 2pm on Friday your not going to see it on your account until we do processing Monday night - and in most cases it's not worth waiting up for it. Goto bed wake up and it will be there tuesday morning.

The only inconvienence is debit card purchase and withdrawal availability. Your deposit will cover checks that post on Monday night. I alway recommend though that you wait until you see the deposit has posted before you write any checks. Even if the branch doesn't put your deposit on hold, the processing center might. If you have recent repetitive overdraft occurences then you best wait until your deposit posts before you use any of it. Why is the bank picking on those who have the least money? It is common sense that if you are low income then you are high risk, which means your friends, family, and people you do business with are high risk. It's an unfortunate fact, but generally low income people aren't hanging out with people in Martha's Vineyard, or the Hamptons. You can be mad at banks for judging you, or profiling you based on your banking history and account balance, but that is the same thing lenders, and insurance companies do. The bank isn't your enemy, ignorance is. You create your own destiny and if you choose to walk the path blindly that is a risk that you take. But you the customer no matter what business your the customer of, are ultimately responsible for your own actions. And if you just take a moment out of your codependent upon everything but yourself life - you would see that if you would have simply read over and familiarized yourself with the terms and conditions of the product or service that is being provided - that you would not have any reason to visit this site. I'm not mad at consumers, or our customers because I do care quite a bit.

Why does the bank charge $2 per call? Well the first two calls are free - and it's two dollars their after. The reason is simple. It is simply to encourage the use and depence of the many automated mediums in which you can check on your account absolutely free. That $2 is merely to damper the effect of the wages that we are paid to answer your call. That $2 fee might pay our wages if we had a second job out in the rice paddy's and $0.10 was our hourly wage. But it is my firm belief that Corporate America is trying hard to keep jobs in America, but people have become to dependent on everyone and everthing but themself forcing resources to be outsourced. Once again it comes accepting responsibility. And if your tired of long hold times don't complain about how long you had to hold, because that just means the customer behind you is holding that much longer while you complain.

Just like you were told on your report, the bank will pay the debits you authorize. If through your use of checks and debit card you overspend your account you will be charged OD fees. Thw way around it, don't overspend. Simple.

Until banks reform their existing fee policies, no member of the banking community is justified in completely dismissing consumer complaints or attributing them to "financial irresponsibility".

The Reason ?

The deck is stacked against you the consumer.

The banks will debit your checks faster than they will deposit checks made out to you.
The will not necessarily post cash deposits "immediately".
They will process transactions in an order that yields the maximum number of fees to increase their bottom line.
They sign you up for FREE checking with COURTESY overdraft protection knowing full well that is likely to yield substantial fees if your account comes within a certain threshold of zero balance.
Some (Wachovia) use the "available balance" instead of the "posted balance" to assess UNAVAILABLE FUNDS fees (not properly disclosed in their customer agreement) and additionally charge you OD/NSF fees when the same items that triggered UNAVAILABLE FUNDS FEES post to your account.
They encourage use of the check cards when it has been clearly shown that use of the check cards exacerbates the overdraft fee problem due to the "$35 hamburger" phenomenon.
They will charge you fees of $35 for a service that costs them $0.50.

I could go on but what's the point. There is an overwhelming abundance of evidence available on the web that points to how these fees have gotten out of control.

To the banks: Reform your fee assessment policies and then and only then can you lecture consumers about "their" responsibilities.

to my OP entitled: Excessive Overdraft charges & deceptive business practices


Don't succumb to the bullies who try to lay the blame completely on the consumer.

The deck is currently stacked against you because the banks have implemented policies that would make it more likely that you incur an OD fee and when you do that more likely than not an avalanche of fees will be incurred before you have the ability to take corrective action.

Go to the Center for Responsible Lending's website and send an online letter to your congressperson asking them to support HR 946: see "Overdraft Loans" tab on their home page - then look for the link to write an online letter to your congressperson.

Whenever you use your debit card to access funds, the funds are temporarily deducted from your available balance. The merchant then has to provide the bank proof of purchase if you will in the form of an authorization number or a signed receipt, whichever is appropriate for the situation. The bank can't pay items until the merchant submits said receipt or auth code for verification, then causing your account to overdraw because days can pass before this happens. You can continue to use the funds placed on hold for these pending transactions because they're not actual transactions until the proof of purchase has been submitted. In essence, it's the same as writing a check where the bank isn't notified until the check is presented to your account for processing. In the mean time you feel that you're balance is something thats its actually not because you've already intended those funds to be spent elsewhere. It seems as if you need to either a) keep records of your transactions and balance your check book, or b) stop using your debit card. It's not your banks fault that you overspend whats in the account.

Wachovia is providing you a service, if you think its a ripoff opt-out or bank elsewhere.

"I say "borrowed" because you d**n sure know they wouldn't allow you to make charges with your debit card if you didn't have direct-deposit"

This is NOT true I didn't have direct deposit enabled when I overdrafted hundreds of dollars.

"So, Wachovia gets to charge me what really amounts to interest of 1000%?"

Its a flat fee. You pay for the service not interest.

"Only charge once per day for overdrafting the account? Then it wouldn't matter if they process the debits high to low or vice-versa. It doesn't cost them anymore to process one than to process 10 ODs."

And what if you wrote 10 bad checks in one day that would cost them more to process and check cards are the same. Wachovia also takes more risk per UF/OD/NSF transaction because you not supposed to spend money you don't have!

"It is the biggest scam going and the government has their backs because all funds deposited (up to $100k per account holder) are insured by the Fed. Allowing the banks to charge enormously large and unsubstantiated fees is a way for the Fed to guarantee they will never have to pay out on the FDIC because the banks can remain solvent solely on the ridiculous fees."

Im glad for FDIC. I wouldn't want to worry about losing my money if a bank becomes bankrupt.