Walmart ripoff: PUBLICALLY HUMILLIATED! Houston Texas

Sorry Roger. If you fly you would find out that airports do profile. Let's compare a couple things. The airport you go thru security check points, at Wal Mart and several other stores you go thru scanners at the doors. At Wal-Mart they ask for your receipt. At the airport your luggage is checked when you check in for the flight, your carry on shoes and so on when you go down toward your flight, and then, watch. yes. they have tables et up and randomly pick people to search again, your carry on, your shoes, coat, whatever. It IS profiling.

It took me almost 2hrs to read all of the threads and I skipped over a lot of them! There are many opinionated people. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am a former employee and victim of WM. I am also entitled to my opinion but I am going to provide honest to goodness fact and not just opinions here.

I will start first, by confirming what other WM employees and ex-employees have written here in their posts. I was a door greeter at WM and I will confirm that the ONLY reason a door greeter has to ask for a receipt is when someone attempts to leave the store with items in their cart that are not in bags. The only time the door greeter has to check someone's bags are when they set off the alarm. There is NO profiling going on regardless of what you might think you know. "If" the door greeter fails to check someone's receipt or bags that fit the above criteria, that doesn't mean that WM is profiling it's customers. It means that the door greeter may not be doing their job properly or may have became distracted. Oh well! To err is human!

I will also confirm that a majority of WM's door greeters are the retired elderly who do not make enough money from their social security benefits and come to work for WM part time so they can have the extra income.

I will also confirm that it is impossible to see every single person who leaves a register and know who has purchased their goods and who has not.

I will also confirm that many people walk into WM with a bogus receipt and even WM bags and attempt to place unpurchased goods into bags and use their bogus receipt to leave the store with stolen items or attempt to take these goods to the Customer Service desk and receive a refund of goods they never purchased.

I will also confirm that asking customers to provide proof of their purchase hurts no one except the guilty. It helps keep prices low and stops those thieves who think they can get away with making our prices higher. I for one, do not want to pay higher costs for goods in an already inflated market!

I am neither a WM lover or WM hater. I have been victimized by WM myself. Providing the details will only cause more disputes and rebuttals but I will share.

I have been accused of stealing from WM just because I forgot to pay for an item that was only $6.96. Even though that night I paid $272.00 for my other items, I was accused of trying to steal a $6.96 wallet. I had the same wallet at home but was trying to find a purse that I could fit the same wallet into. I had picked up the wallet and placed it into the purse I chose to buy. Just at that time, my 6yr old son had run off and was getting into the umbrellas around the corner and I heard a WM employee getting onto him so I put the purse down in my cart and went after my son in a hurry.

After that, I completely forgot that the wallet was in the purse and continued shopping for another 3hrs...yes, I was shopping there for another 3hrs! Once I got up to the register, I paid for all of my items (or so I THOUGHT) I then went to leave the store and was stopped by WM LP. They pulled me into a small room by the exit doors and started ripping through my items that I had just purchased. Not knowing what was going on, I became hysterical. They pulled out the purse that I had paid for and then pulled out the wallet and said and I quote "You had no plan of paying for this did you?" I said "Oh my God! I completely forgot about that!" They told me "Too bad, you shouldn't be placing items into other items if you are going to be that forgetful!" I tried to argue and tell them what happened despite the fact that they should have already known because they were watching me on camera for 3hrs, but they wouldn't budge.

They told me they were not going to have me arrested because it was under $20.00 but they issued me a citation and took my picture and told me that I would never again be allowed at any WM for the rest of my life or I could be arrested for trespassing.

Two weeks later, I received a notice in the mail that I had to pay a $250.00 fine within 30 days or I would be taken to trial court. All of this because of a d**n $6.96 wallet that I had already had at home! I couldn't believe it! I felt violated! I wrote a letter to the corporate office telling them how unfair I felt that I was treated and I received a call from a WM manager two weeks later but when I tried to call her back, she was always unavailable.

I paid my $250.00 fine to WM but that in no way means that I am guilty of trying to steal! I feel very violated because I enjoy shopping at WM just like many other people. I added up mine and my husband's receipts for WM just for the year 2005. We spent a total of $15,000 at WM. It seems a shame to me that WM chooses to loose a $15,000 profit over a mere $6.95 wallet but, so be it. I understand that they have to try and protect their store form theft. It is just a shame that I have to be victimized because of all of the REAL thieves out there.

I know many of you will respond and say that I am probably guilty of trying to steal...OH WELL, you all are entitled to your opinions. Just thought I would share my injustice with you all and tell you that I would still to this day, shop at WM if I were able to because of their low prices. I've had to shop at other markets and such and while, some of their items are lower priced than WM, the overall costs are higher. They also do not carry many of the same items and brands that WM has. It's really sad that all of the businesses have been reduced to accusing their customers of being guilty until proven innocent.

Everyone just needs to stop shopping at Walmart in general. They are taking all of our jobs, sell products that are made in China when at one time they claimed to sell products made in the USA, and short change their employees. Don't shop there, just don't, at least if you want your kids to have jobs.

What I don't understand here is how everyone seems upset by the quality of service and idiotic workers they encounter at big box or discount stores. Such stores go out of their way to seek cheap labor -- the cheaper the better. Who do you think is willing to work for minimum wage or slightly higher? That's right -- the high school drop outs, the druggies, the mentally challenged, the unmotivated freaky types ... What do you expect when you go to one of these stores? The days of good ol' fashioned service at those ol' mom 'n pop stores are LONG gone. Either quit complaining about something that is reality everywhere, or quit shopping at these huge discount retailers. You can still find good service at some stores, but you need to be willing to pay more in terms of prices to get it. Are you willing to do that? You can't have your cake and eat it too!

Shopping at Sam's Club is like being in an institution for the mentally challeged, where the rules have been made by the inmates, and enforced by other brain-dead employees who are on the list to appear on the Jerry Springer Show. I could go on and on, about the bizarre experiences I have had there, but I realized that it's best just to work with these retarded folks, play by their odd set of rules, and "use the system" they have invented to try and buy some stuff that I need, and not spend too much money. I could point out that they sell various produce items, such as a bag of potatoes, for 3 times the price at nearby grocery stores, and so on, but I realized that the best approach is just to avoid the outrageous prices on those items, and buy the things that are bargains. It's just not worth it to get hypertension over these types of problems.

They have Wal-marts in Zaire? Sure changed since I was there in the way early 80's.

Not one of you has a clue what he is talking about, but you've created a report/rebuttal/response thread 25 feet long. Sheesh.

Walmart has sensors attached to more expensive or "sensitive" products (such as tobacco). The sensors cause the door alarms to activate when they pass the plane of the door. The door alarms may be inaudible in a loud shopping environment, hence the "Why did they stop me?" complaint repeated ad nauseum here.

The sensors are (supposed to be) deactivated by being rubbed over a magnetic field by the cashier. However, I've experienced forgetful cashiers who failed to deactivate the sensors, or cashiers with a grudge when I'm upset with them about something, who likely "forgot" on purpose. There is plenty of anecdote on the Web that this happens often enough.

I do not shoplift. Therefore, they have no legitimate reason to stop me. Period. When they try this with me, instead of submitting like a humiliated slave subject to their ridiculous whim, I tell them "I don't shoplift, I'm not stopping, call a cop if you have a problem with that". They respond with "Okay."

Some of you who say you don't mind this because it's only 20 seconds of inconvenience, etc? You're nuts. It's an inefficient, absurd, and indeed, humiliating waste of time, starring YOU on the stage of shoplifters. That is an INSANE exercise to submit to. You are CRAZY if you submit to this willingly. And the idea that this saves the customer money by reducing shoplifting? Utter, utter nonsense. This saves, statistically, nothing.

I just found this site tonight, when I was researching AT&T, as my husband and I are considering switching our phone service away from BellSouth to them. I have had a great time laughing at all of the arguing going on here, and some rather strange responses that absolutely do not pertain to the original post that started it all.

I shop at Wal-Mart all of the time, as it is the only place in town that you can purchase groceries, medicine, cleaning supplies, and dog food. I look at it this way, I can either take 30 seconds to hand the receipt to the people greeter, or hours going to several different stores to purchase all of the items that I need. I am grateful to know that this means that I am in the low income and poorly educated bracket. I'm sure that my employer would love to know that I am so poorly educated.

Now onto my actual comment...If you are not shoplifting, then you should have no problem with presenting your receipt. If you are, then I guess I can see your point of not wanting to show your receipt, as it proves that you were in fact stealing. I have been in Wal-Mart and seen several people walk out ahead of me and not get stopped, while they stop me...I have been there when they stop the person in front of, or behind me, and do not stop me. So tell me please, what kind of profiling this is. I guess when they get to work each day, there is a new list of what type of person they will be "profiling" for that day.

There are many stores that I have seen practice this procedure of checking receipts, and I have to say that Wal-Mart is the least in depth of them all. Sam's literally checks off every item that you have in your cart with your receipt. K-Mart has on many occasions counted the items on my receipt, and matched it to the items in my bag. And this is not just me, this is pretty much everyone that shops at the K-Mart in my area. Target, looks at the receipt, highlights it, and you are on your merry way.

Now, here is the reason that I believe that they do this. There are so many dishonest people out there today that will purchase something, go back in the store, pick the same items up again, and take them to the service desk to return them, thereby getting their items for free. There has to be a way to stop that, and if checking your receipt is the way to do it, then so be it.

I am interested to know something....when you have purchased something at a department store, and decide to return it for one reason or the other, do you get offended when they ask to see your receipt in order to process the return? This is essentially the same thing, they want proof that it was paid for.

If you are that unhappy with Wal-Mart's practices, then just stop shopping there. I promise that it will not be that great of a loss to them.

Now I am not a Wal-Mart hater or lover, I just simply see things as they are.

Obviously you can't read or don't understand what you are reading. I simply stated that while I don't agree with the policy in general that it is a WM policy and I stop to show the receipt....I also clearly stated that if I remember I ask for the receipt so I can have it ready...however, I do have a life and often have other things on my mind as do most people. I DO NOT like confrontation which is why I show the stupid receipt in the first place. I also stated that it is a privledge to shop at WM and everyone has the RIGHT/PRIVLEDGE to choose not to shop there which is what they should do if they don't agree with WM's policy.

As for your once again ignorant comments you need to reread my post from my experience as I have commented back to you on there as well as posting updated info as to WM's solution.

Also as stated on my thread, it is people like you who make others leery of posting due to your negative, and rude remarks. I hope that you can get past whatever has made you such a bitter and nasty person.

Good Luck to you Roger.

Obviously you can't read or don't understand what you are reading. I simply stated that while I don't agree with the policy in general that it is a WM policy and I stop to show the receipt....I also clearly stated that if I remember I ask for the receipt so I can have it ready...however, I do have a life and often have other things on my mind as do most people. I DO NOT like confrontation which is why I show the stupid receipt in the first place. I also stated that it is a privledge to shop at WM and everyone has the RIGHT/PRIVLEDGE to choose not to shop there which is what they should do if they don't agree with WM's policy.

As for your once again ignorant comments you need to reread my post from my experience as I have commented back to you on there as well as posting updated info as to WM's solution.

Also as stated on my thread, it is people like you who make others leery of posting due to your negative, and rude remarks. I hope that you can get past whatever has made you such a bitter and nasty person.

Good Luck to you Roger.

Obviously you can't read or don't understand what you are reading. I simply stated that while I don't agree with the policy in general that it is a WM policy and I stop to show the receipt....I also clearly stated that if I remember I ask for the receipt so I can have it ready...however, I do have a life and often have other things on my mind as do most people. I DO NOT like confrontation which is why I show the stupid receipt in the first place. I also stated that it is a privledge to shop at WM and everyone has the RIGHT/PRIVLEDGE to choose not to shop there which is what they should do if they don't agree with WM's policy.

As for your once again ignorant comments you need to reread my post from my experience as I have commented back to you on there as well as posting updated info as to WM's solution.

Also as stated on my thread, it is people like you who make others leery of posting due to your negative, and rude remarks. I hope that you can get past whatever has made you such a bitter and nasty person.

Good Luck to you Roger.

Obviously you can't read or don't understand what you are reading. I simply stated that while I don't agree with the policy in general that it is a WM policy and I stop to show the receipt....I also clearly stated that if I remember I ask for the receipt so I can have it ready...however, I do have a life and often have other things on my mind as do most people. I DO NOT like confrontation which is why I show the stupid receipt in the first place. I also stated that it is a privledge to shop at WM and everyone has the RIGHT/PRIVLEDGE to choose not to shop there which is what they should do if they don't agree with WM's policy.

As for your once again ignorant comments you need to reread my post from my experience as I have commented back to you on there as well as posting updated info as to WM's solution.

Also as stated on my thread, it is people like you who make others leery of posting due to your negative, and rude remarks. I hope that you can get past whatever has made you such a bitter and nasty person.

Good Luck to you Roger.

the cashiers are usually extremely helpful to me by assisting me with getting my items from the cart to the belt and into bags and back into my cart...here is the funny part in their effort to help me they usually wind up handing me my change but placing my receipt in one of my bags..

hmmmmmmm, if it's such an inconvenience, why wouldn't you request the receipt be given to you. I'll bet they even ask you if you would like it in the bag and you respond "yes", or you may even request it be placed in the bag hoping the greeter will ask for it so that you can then cause a commotion. This is consistent with your phone ordeal.

It's obvious you're trying to set up a confrontation with the door greeters. They may or may not take the bait.

You are absolutely right! Wal-Mart did profile you. Only AS A PERSON THAT DIDN'T HAVE THEIR RECIPT AVAILABLE WHEN ASKED FOR IT!!! Stop nthe whining. Teach Wal-Mart a lesson, and shop somewhere else, I'm sure the door greeter wouldn't mind.

We have the right to shop where we want. But, we don't have the right to ignore a businesses' reasonable policies. Simply taking your business elsewhere would be a solution that should be considered before you try to use the "profiling" card.

It is not opinion that WalMarts customer base is largely lower middle class. It is fact. And WalMart is recognizing that they now have to begin targeting more affluent consumers and still be able to maintain their lower income base as well. This topic is on the business and finance pages of many publications on almost a daily basis.

Many of WalMarts customers live so close to the edge that the increase in the price of gasoline has diminished their disposable income, they can't spend as much at WalMart. This is ironic as WalMart is one of the primary reasons the cost of fuel has risen so much. They import 80% of their goods from China. This has had a profound effect on the world's oil supply.

As far as lower prices, I don't see that. It's smoke and mirrors. An illusion of low prices is created. Maybe a few loss leaders here and there that are ubiquitously displayed throughout the store. But in general they're no cheaper than anyone else.

I can see both sides of this issue...I don't as a rule agree with WM's practice of requesting to see your receipt as it is a violation of my rights. on the other hand by ignoring the greeter, or starting a shouting match with the greeter you are drawing more attention to yourself than by just producing your receipt. You by now KNOW that it is WalMart's policy to check receipts KNOWING this, it is your right/priveledge to either continue to shop there and follow WM's policy's or shop elsewhere.

To the original OP if indeed you feel that you were profiled then by all means file a formal complaint with WM's Corporate Office and make sure it is in writing. I agree that WM employee's sometimes take things to the extreme and embarrass customers, but I also believe as stated that when the customer gets loud they are drawing more attention to their situation....try this one on for size...I am in a wheelchair, I usually use my chair from home as I find it annoying to have to move my items from the electric cart that WM conviently (sp) provides me for shopping but does not allow out of the store...my usual routine is to get a cart, hook my feet in the bars and use my arms to push myself and my cart through the store...the cashiers are usually extremely helpful to me by assisting me with getting my items from the cart to the belt and into bags and back into my cart...here is the funny part in their effort to help me they usually wind up handing me my change but placing my receipt in one of my bags...at which point I get to the greeter and they are asking for my receipt...well let's see it's in one of my bags, I don't know which bag as I didn't put it there...now my options be rude and say tough luck i'm not going to let you do your job...or sure have at it search all my bags....which takes extra time..(my time, the greeters time, and any other customer who may be awaiting assistance from the greeter)...they usually tell me that's allright go ahead...if I remember I will stop prior to getting to the door and remove the receipt or ask the cashier to please hand it to me as it makes everyone's life easier. Also, I have noticed that our WM doesn't check receipts all the time, usually prior to/during/right after large holidays they check receipts. Only occasionally at non-holidays to they check receipts.

I don't find receipt checking offensive what I find offensive and embarrassing is when you have paid for an item and the alarm sounds anyway, you know you haven't taken anything yet everyone around you is thinking OMG did that person get caught stealing, 99% of the time the alarms at WM catch cashier/equipment errors not shoplifters, the detectors at the doors are a deterant not a fail safe. Just like the locks on your doors at home will not stop a determined theif locks only keep innocent people out. Shoplifters are usually caught by LP staff or camera's in the store.

To all those who feel that WM employee's/customers are all uneducated/low income people, SHAME ON YOU...what right do you have to judge anyone based on education/monetary worth. People should be judged by their morals/ethics & values, and how they treat others not based on their income, education, color, sex, religious preferences, sexual preference..etc.

To all of the WM Haters out there, I too have a post on this site concerning WM so I do not agree with all of their policies.

I live in a small town and after WM moved in most of our smaller stores closed, even our KMart store was shut down WM is the closest place to shop that has reasonable prices and does not cause me to have to drive 45 miles or more out of my way. As far as grocery stores go I don't always purchase food items from WM as they don't always offer some of the brands that I prefer. Therefore it is my choice to either shop there and abide their policies or go elsewhere.

I do think it would be a wise choice for WalMart to post their receipt checking policy in plain view upon entering the store thus upon entrance you have the right to turn around and leave.

Just my thoughts.

Todd:

You said any information requested when asked properly would be forthcoming...I Humbly request your court information, CASE #, Which City/County/State this occurred in for further research as to your problems with WM. Thank You In advance.

When I was in a super wally world in Terrell Texas, I noticed that the door greeters were doing like Sams and marking through all the receipts that showed beer sales.

I asked why and the kind gentleman greeter told me that the trick was to use three people, one that acuatlly bought a case of beer, one on the outside to take it, one on the inside ready with another case. The guy with the legit case would quickly hand his off to his cohort, rush inside and grab the one from his other cohort and walk out just as pretty as you please.

Anybody stopping him and questioning the slight time difference and he'd say he had stopped to look at the stuff on the wall before going out.

Apparently this is a legit concern in Texas.

By the way, I live in Flagstaff and have yet to have my receipt checked at Wally World, Fry's, Safeway, Albertsons, Basha's, or any other place - execpt Sam's of course.

Still, the law of the land is (with the exception of membership places where you give up your "unalienable rights") once you have purchased the items, they then belong to you and you alone. It's up to the store to prove reasonable suspicion or probable cause - depending on where you live.

Realize also, if a store publically accuses you of stealing and it turns out you didn't, they are liable (in most areas) for the embarrassment and emotional pain and suffering they caused you. Usually they will try to buy you out.

Also remember, since it is private property, stores can limit your access or exclude you completely if they can articulate some specific reason.

Just my 4 cents worth.

From what I read I belive that Roger was specially picked out. I mean he went through the door no alarms went off, there were like five other people going with him out the door, and the door checker only checks his bag after he was close to the second door.. that sounds like profiling to me. They had no right to just check his especially if the alarm did not go off. Where I shop at WM the only time they ever check your recite is if you have a big item like a TV or something of the sorts or if the alarms go off and its usually because of a DVD. and if you purchesed meds a the med counter and not at the front of the store. other wise they justlet you walk right on by. Roger was wronged in being selected out of the other people even sense nothing went off and he wasn't doing anything. I support you Roger.

i had bought a camera tripod and some other equippment the tripod was to big to bag so i expected the search at the door as i walked out i herd "sir SIR i need to see your recept" i stated "theres a copy of it at regerster 12 and i dont want to be stoped and would like to go about my bisunuess are you detaining me aginist my will?" she looked like a deer in the headlights
and said im going to call the manager" i said well if you arent holding me aginist my will anser me this? do you think i stole something? "
she stoped talking and just stood there so i said "i take that as a no and will be on my way"
so i walked out while i was loading my vehicle a well dressed manager walked up and said why did you not let the door person see your recept?
i replyed did you ever read the book "1984"?
its a orwellain kinda thing he looked puzzled and walked away (but in my observations of other people being stopped and searched at the door
i wonder is there any people left that arent willing to surrender there rights for any trivial reason that comes along?

ps if you dont know your rights you dont have any

i had bought a camera tripod and some other equippment the tripod was to big to bag so i expected the search at the door as i walked out i herd "sir SIR i need to see your recept" i stated "theres a copy of it at regerster 12 and i dont want to be stoped and would like to go about my bisunuess are you detaining me aginist my will?" she looked like a deer in the headlights
and said im going to call the manager" i said well if you arent holding me aginist my will anser me this? do you think i stole something? "
she stoped talking and just stood there so i said "i take that as a no and will be on my way"
so i walked out while i was loading my vehicle a well dressed manager walked up and said why did you not let the door person see your recept?
i replyed did you ever read the book "1984"?
its a orwellain kinda thing he looked puzzled and walked away (but in my observations of other people being stopped and searched at the door
i wonder is there any people left that arent willing to surrender there rights for any trivial reason that comes along?

ps if you dont know your rights you dont have any

Here's some things I pulled from the internet:

From expertlaw.com regarding Merchant Privilege - "Most jurisdictions grant merchants the right to apply reasonable force to detain shoplifters, or other persons who the merchant reasonably believes are attempting to steal the merchant's property."

This one probably best describes the entire scenario regarding bag checks and probable cause - http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm

Copy and paste the link into your browser and enjoy!

Bottom line is, it's not illegal for a store to check your bags and receipt, as long as it's voluntary on the part of the shopper. It is also not illegal to ignore the request and keep walking. The fine line is probable cause. Is the alarm going off probable cause to suspect you of shoplifting? Yes and no. Like I said, it's a fine line.

As far as I'm concerned, I will stop and take one minute of my time to sort out the problem. I don't feel that I'm being accused of shoplifting simply because the alarm goes off and they want to check my bags. I know that I haven't stolen anything, so I'm not worried.

And regarding my comments to Larry about what might happen if he did not stop, I did not say he would be arrested for not stopping. But that it would be for resisting. Granted, he would have had every right, but by the time police arrive, all they see is a "shoplifter" struggling with LP. It's not a perfect world we live in.

Everything that you state is correct Larry. The alarm is certainly NOT probable cause to stop you. 1) It may not have been you that triggered the alarm or 2) It may be store or alarm error (usually the case) Probable cause is witnessing the theft. It's that simple.

So Patrick, you state that someone would be arrested for not stopping for a buzzer, assuming that they paid for the merchandise, what would they be arrested for? Cite me a real law with a state code. Don't just spew self-serving crap like you did above.

I'm waiting.

I don't know Patrick, if it will go down like that or not. First, why didn't she just say that they would attempt to detain me. Action by LP are legal in regards to the 'Merchant's Privilege statute of the law only. That law doesn't speak of bag searches. It does clearly state that a security person has to SEE you take an item or SEE you do something that any reasonable person would interpret as theft or attempted theft.

I clearly stated that I did not want a physical confrontation. I explained to her about what I have read online. I explained that I try to make sure all my purchases are bagged and do what I can to prevent being stopped. I'm 56 years old. But spent > 30 of those years studying and instructing hand to hand combat and different styles of self defense. So I'm not really concerned about some LP person detaining me if I don't want to be detained. Of course he could pull a gun, I would stop resisting. But like I say, I hope and really don't think it will come to that.

I think she didn't address that statement because she doesn't want to go there. If they call the police they still have to have EVIDENCE that I stole something before I would be arrested. They are kind of between a rock and a hard place. They want to stop me, yet say that they aren't accusing me of shoplifting. That's the problem. If your not accusing me of shoplifting then I don't have to stop, and your LP people will be the ones going to jail for assault, not me. The 'Merchant's Privilege' gives LP the right to detain people, but the way it is written it's clear that they better have real proof before detaining anyone. Which is the way it should be, if they see someone steal then they should have the right to hold them for the police. On the other hand the customers have rights also, and can't be required to give up their constitutional rights (presumption of innocence - illegal search), just shop in their store.

How many times does that alarm go off, and out of that, how many are actually attempts to steal? If you stop me because of the alarm, then I should be intitled to that information. That wouldn't look to good, when they try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. Like I said in an earlier post, they control the alarm. Then want to use it as probable cause? I work with computers and solid state electronics for a living, I know that they can control the alarm.
If -as she stated- they have certain items that set off the alarm how do they explain the alarm going off when none of those items are present. I believe that is what happened to me the last time and why they couldn't tell me what caused the alarm.

Once I pay for items they are my personal property. No one has a right to handle them.
If they call the police and I have not stolen anything, and I insist that they call every time the alarm goes off (and if everyone else would do so) then they would have to explain what is going on. If they don't have reasonable cause to suspect shoplifting then the are in an 'illegal detainment' situation.


Like I said before, "They stop me and ask for my receipt, then look in my bags for anything that is NOT on the receipt, they are, through their actions, accusing me of theft". They detain me in public, ask for my receipt, search my bags, and treat me like a criminal. Then when they find nothing want to say "Ok, never mine, thank you." - - I don't think so ! They darn sure owe me an explanation. When this happens time and time again to different customers, don't then try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. They have proven through their own actions that the alarm is not dependable and can not be use a probable cause since it keeps going off when no theft has taken place. When they say a clerk error can cause it to go off they have just admitted that the alarm doesn't necessary indicate a theft. So use of LP would be walking on thin ice legally.

Patrick, I just resent having to prove that I'm NOT a thief.

I don't know Patrick, if it will go down like that or not. First, why didn't she just say that they would attempt to detain me. Action by LP are legal in regards to the 'Merchant's Privilege statute of the law only. That law doesn't speak of bag searches. It does clearly state that a security person has to SEE you take an item or SEE you do something that any reasonable person would interpret as theft or attempted theft.

I clearly stated that I did not want a physical confrontation. I explained to her about what I have read online. I explained that I try to make sure all my purchases are bagged and do what I can to prevent being stopped. I'm 56 years old. But spent > 30 of those years studying and instructing hand to hand combat and different styles of self defense. So I'm not really concerned about some LP person detaining me if I don't want to be detained. Of course he could pull a gun, I would stop resisting. But like I say, I hope and really don't think it will come to that.

I think she didn't address that statement because she doesn't want to go there. If they call the police they still have to have EVIDENCE that I stole something before I would be arrested. They are kind of between a rock and a hard place. They want to stop me, yet say that they aren't accusing me of shoplifting. That's the problem. If your not accusing me of shoplifting then I don't have to stop, and your LP people will be the ones going to jail for assault, not me. The 'Merchant's Privilege' gives LP the right to detain people, but the way it is written it's clear that they better have real proof before detaining anyone. Which is the way it should be, if they see someone steal then they should have the right to hold them for the police. On the other hand the customers have rights also, and can't be required to give up their constitutional rights (presumption of innocence - illegal search), just shop in their store.

How many times does that alarm go off, and out of that, how many are actually attempts to steal? If you stop me because of the alarm, then I should be intitled to that information. That wouldn't look to good, when they try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. Like I said in an earlier post, they control the alarm. Then want to use it as probable cause? I work with computers and solid state electronics for a living, I know that they can control the alarm.
If -as she stated- they have certain items that set off the alarm how do they explain the alarm going off when none of those items are present. I believe that is what happened to me the last time and why they couldn't tell me what caused the alarm.

Once I pay for items they are my personal property. No one has a right to handle them.
If they call the police and I have not stolen anything, and I insist that they call every time the alarm goes off (and if everyone else would do so) then they would have to explain what is going on. If they don't have reasonable cause to suspect shoplifting then the are in an 'illegal detainment' situation.


Like I said before, "They stop me and ask for my receipt, then look in my bags for anything that is NOT on the receipt, they are, through their actions, accusing me of theft". They detain me in public, ask for my receipt, search my bags, and treat me like a criminal. Then when they find nothing want to say "Ok, never mine, thank you." - - I don't think so ! They darn sure owe me an explanation. When this happens time and time again to different customers, don't then try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. They have proven through their own actions that the alarm is not dependable and can not be use a probable cause since it keeps going off when no theft has taken place. When they say a clerk error can cause it to go off they have just admitted that the alarm doesn't necessary indicate a theft. So use of LP would be walking on thin ice legally.

Patrick, I just resent having to prove that I'm NOT a thief.

I don't know Patrick, if it will go down like that or not. First, why didn't she just say that they would attempt to detain me. Action by LP are legal in regards to the 'Merchant's Privilege statute of the law only. That law doesn't speak of bag searches. It does clearly state that a security person has to SEE you take an item or SEE you do something that any reasonable person would interpret as theft or attempted theft.

I clearly stated that I did not want a physical confrontation. I explained to her about what I have read online. I explained that I try to make sure all my purchases are bagged and do what I can to prevent being stopped. I'm 56 years old. But spent > 30 of those years studying and instructing hand to hand combat and different styles of self defense. So I'm not really concerned about some LP person detaining me if I don't want to be detained. Of course he could pull a gun, I would stop resisting. But like I say, I hope and really don't think it will come to that.

I think she didn't address that statement because she doesn't want to go there. If they call the police they still have to have EVIDENCE that I stole something before I would be arrested. They are kind of between a rock and a hard place. They want to stop me, yet say that they aren't accusing me of shoplifting. That's the problem. If your not accusing me of shoplifting then I don't have to stop, and your LP people will be the ones going to jail for assault, not me. The 'Merchant's Privilege' gives LP the right to detain people, but the way it is written it's clear that they better have real proof before detaining anyone. Which is the way it should be, if they see someone steal then they should have the right to hold them for the police. On the other hand the customers have rights also, and can't be required to give up their constitutional rights (presumption of innocence - illegal search), just shop in their store.

How many times does that alarm go off, and out of that, how many are actually attempts to steal? If you stop me because of the alarm, then I should be intitled to that information. That wouldn't look to good, when they try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. Like I said in an earlier post, they control the alarm. Then want to use it as probable cause? I work with computers and solid state electronics for a living, I know that they can control the alarm.
If -as she stated- they have certain items that set off the alarm how do they explain the alarm going off when none of those items are present. I believe that is what happened to me the last time and why they couldn't tell me what caused the alarm.

Once I pay for items they are my personal property. No one has a right to handle them.
If they call the police and I have not stolen anything, and I insist that they call every time the alarm goes off (and if everyone else would do so) then they would have to explain what is going on. If they don't have reasonable cause to suspect shoplifting then the are in an 'illegal detainment' situation.


Like I said before, "They stop me and ask for my receipt, then look in my bags for anything that is NOT on the receipt, they are, through their actions, accusing me of theft". They detain me in public, ask for my receipt, search my bags, and treat me like a criminal. Then when they find nothing want to say "Ok, never mine, thank you." - - I don't think so ! They darn sure owe me an explanation. When this happens time and time again to different customers, don't then try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. They have proven through their own actions that the alarm is not dependable and can not be use a probable cause since it keeps going off when no theft has taken place. When they say a clerk error can cause it to go off they have just admitted that the alarm doesn't necessary indicate a theft. So use of LP would be walking on thin ice legally.

Patrick, I just resent having to prove that I'm NOT a thief.

I don't know Patrick, if it will go down like that or not. First, why didn't she just say that they would attempt to detain me. Action by LP are legal in regards to the 'Merchant's Privilege statute of the law only. That law doesn't speak of bag searches. It does clearly state that a security person has to SEE you take an item or SEE you do something that any reasonable person would interpret as theft or attempted theft.

I clearly stated that I did not want a physical confrontation. I explained to her about what I have read online. I explained that I try to make sure all my purchases are bagged and do what I can to prevent being stopped. I'm 56 years old. But spent > 30 of those years studying and instructing hand to hand combat and different styles of self defense. So I'm not really concerned about some LP person detaining me if I don't want to be detained. Of course he could pull a gun, I would stop resisting. But like I say, I hope and really don't think it will come to that.

I think she didn't address that statement because she doesn't want to go there. If they call the police they still have to have EVIDENCE that I stole something before I would be arrested. They are kind of between a rock and a hard place. They want to stop me, yet say that they aren't accusing me of shoplifting. That's the problem. If your not accusing me of shoplifting then I don't have to stop, and your LP people will be the ones going to jail for assault, not me. The 'Merchant's Privilege' gives LP the right to detain people, but the way it is written it's clear that they better have real proof before detaining anyone. Which is the way it should be, if they see someone steal then they should have the right to hold them for the police. On the other hand the customers have rights also, and can't be required to give up their constitutional rights (presumption of innocence - illegal search), just shop in their store.

How many times does that alarm go off, and out of that, how many are actually attempts to steal? If you stop me because of the alarm, then I should be intitled to that information. That wouldn't look to good, when they try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. Like I said in an earlier post, they control the alarm. Then want to use it as probable cause? I work with computers and solid state electronics for a living, I know that they can control the alarm.
If -as she stated- they have certain items that set off the alarm how do they explain the alarm going off when none of those items are present. I believe that is what happened to me the last time and why they couldn't tell me what caused the alarm.

Once I pay for items they are my personal property. No one has a right to handle them.
If they call the police and I have not stolen anything, and I insist that they call every time the alarm goes off (and if everyone else would do so) then they would have to explain what is going on. If they don't have reasonable cause to suspect shoplifting then the are in an 'illegal detainment' situation.


Like I said before, "They stop me and ask for my receipt, then look in my bags for anything that is NOT on the receipt, they are, through their actions, accusing me of theft". They detain me in public, ask for my receipt, search my bags, and treat me like a criminal. Then when they find nothing want to say "Ok, never mine, thank you." - - I don't think so ! They darn sure owe me an explanation. When this happens time and time again to different customers, don't then try to use the alarm as 'probable cause'. They have proven through their own actions that the alarm is not dependable and can not be use a probable cause since it keeps going off when no theft has taken place. When they say a clerk error can cause it to go off they have just admitted that the alarm doesn't necessary indicate a theft. So use of LP would be walking on thin ice legally.

Patrick, I just resent having to prove that I'm NOT a thief.

Larry,

You stated that the co-manager did not really tell you what would happen if you kept walking after setting off the alarm. In most cases, it would probably go something like this:

Door greeter asks you to stop so they can check your bag. You refuse and keep walking. Door greeter calls LP, who then comes after you. You are still in their parking lot (ie their private property) and they forcibly detain you. You struggle with them and tell them to leave you alone, you didn't steal anything. They physically detain you, call the cops, and you are arrested.

None of the things done to you in the above scenario are illegal. Why? Becasue by setting off the alarm, they have probable cause to suspect you of shoplifting. That's it, that's the bottom line. Probable cause.

Just last weekend I was shopping at one of the local Supercenters. I had my 4 year old daughter with me. We shopped for a while, I paid for my purchases, and we left. Sure enough, the alarm goes off. I immediately stop and try to figure out what set it off. Turns out the cashier did not deactivate the tag on the dremel bit I purchased. The door greeter took it over to the alarm tower and it went off. She looked at my receipt, confirmed I had paid for it, then sent us on our way. This all took less than a minute. I shudder to think of what would have happened to my daughter had I refused to take one minute to let the greeter do her job.

It just simply amazes me how worked up people get over this bag checking issue.

Well I finally heard from Wal-Mart last week. First I came home and was told that a "Co-Manager" had called. I tried to return her call but was put on hold. I waited about 8 minutes on hold and then hung up. I tried the next day, same thing. On third try at least someone came back on the line after about 5 minutes and said she wasn't there.
A couple days later I get a letter from her saying she had tried to reach me.
Today I just stopped in on my way home from work. She didn't say much, just that she was not aware that anyone was ever stopped if the buzzer didn't go off. Twice I told her I didn't want any confrontation with any of her employees but I if the alarm went of I was just going to keep walking. I told her I had food items in a bag and I didn't want anyone messing with food items, and it definitely wasn't anyone business what medications (prescriptions) I was using.
She kind of ignored this statement both times. She said that certain items would activate the alarm. I ask her if the lady who stopped me should be able to tell me what caused the alarm to go off. She said, yes she should be able to tell me.
She was very polite and I tried to be the same. She said she appreciated me coming in and letting her know there was a problem. She said if I ever have any problems to have her called.
So not much was accomplished, she didn't say what is going to happen the first time I just keep walking.
We were polite to each other and I guess we'll just wait and see. I did explain the I found it offensive to be stopped and have my bags searched.

Well I finally heard from Wal-Mart last week. First I came home and was told that a "Co-Manager" had called. I tried to return her call but was put on hold. I waited about 8 minutes on hold and then hung up. I tried the next day, same thing. On third try at least someone came back on the line after about 5 minutes and said she wasn't there.
A couple days later I get a letter from her saying she had tried to reach me.
Today I just stopped in on my way home from work. She didn't say much, just that she was not aware that anyone was ever stopped if the buzzer didn't go off. Twice I told her I didn't want any confrontation with any of her employees but I if the alarm went of I was just going to keep walking. I told her I had food items in a bag and I didn't want anyone messing with food items, and it definitely wasn't anyone business what medications (prescriptions) I was using.
She kind of ignored this statement both times. She said that certain items would activate the alarm. I ask her if the lady who stopped me should be able to tell me what caused the alarm to go off. She said, yes she should be able to tell me.
She was very polite and I tried to be the same. She said she appreciated me coming in and letting her know there was a problem. She said if I ever have any problems to have her called.
So not much was accomplished, she didn't say what is going to happen the first time I just keep walking.
We were polite to each other and I guess we'll just wait and see. I did explain the I found it offensive to be stopped and have my bags searched.

Well I finally heard from Wal-Mart last week. First I came home and was told that a "Co-Manager" had called. I tried to return her call but was put on hold. I waited about 8 minutes on hold and then hung up. I tried the next day, same thing. On third try at least someone came back on the line after about 5 minutes and said she wasn't there.
A couple days later I get a letter from her saying she had tried to reach me.
Today I just stopped in on my way home from work. She didn't say much, just that she was not aware that anyone was ever stopped if the buzzer didn't go off. Twice I told her I didn't want any confrontation with any of her employees but I if the alarm went of I was just going to keep walking. I told her I had food items in a bag and I didn't want anyone messing with food items, and it definitely wasn't anyone business what medications (prescriptions) I was using.
She kind of ignored this statement both times. She said that certain items would activate the alarm. I ask her if the lady who stopped me should be able to tell me what caused the alarm to go off. She said, yes she should be able to tell me.
She was very polite and I tried to be the same. She said she appreciated me coming in and letting her know there was a problem. She said if I ever have any problems to have her called.
So not much was accomplished, she didn't say what is going to happen the first time I just keep walking.
We were polite to each other and I guess we'll just wait and see. I did explain the I found it offensive to be stopped and have my bags searched.

Well I finally heard from Wal-Mart last week. First I came home and was told that a "Co-Manager" had called. I tried to return her call but was put on hold. I waited about 8 minutes on hold and then hung up. I tried the next day, same thing. On third try at least someone came back on the line after about 5 minutes and said she wasn't there.
A couple days later I get a letter from her saying she had tried to reach me.
Today I just stopped in on my way home from work. She didn't say much, just that she was not aware that anyone was ever stopped if the buzzer didn't go off. Twice I told her I didn't want any confrontation with any of her employees but I if the alarm went of I was just going to keep walking. I told her I had food items in a bag and I didn't want anyone messing with food items, and it definitely wasn't anyone business what medications (prescriptions) I was using.
She kind of ignored this statement both times. She said that certain items would activate the alarm. I ask her if the lady who stopped me should be able to tell me what caused the alarm to go off. She said, yes she should be able to tell me.
She was very polite and I tried to be the same. She said she appreciated me coming in and letting her know there was a problem. She said if I ever have any problems to have her called.
So not much was accomplished, she didn't say what is going to happen the first time I just keep walking.
We were polite to each other and I guess we'll just wait and see. I did explain the I found it offensive to be stopped and have my bags searched.

YES WE DO LOVE OUR TREES! We had this guy that was saving our trees sitting in one day and night, My husband said there's your buddy why don't you go sit with him!lol I almost did! Just kidding, but our trees is what makes oregon beautiful.

Nordtroms is a very nice store too! Glad you two worked it out!Hey but lets not tell Todd about Nordy's,he might go there,oh wait no free foood there have to go to the food court and actually pay!SHHHHHHHHHHH he is all worked up on his 1164 site lol another long rambling scripture for us haters.

Yeah--I ripped off too much. Bet we could make a good team. How's that song go? 'I'll start walking your way, you start walking mine. We'll meet in the middle 'neath....' whatever the rest of it is.

I'll continue my shopping at Wal-Mart, but when I want a good suit, I'll go to Nordstroms. :)

The Nordstrom thing just honked me off a bit, maybe I generalized too much on the income/education topic.

I'd say anyone who attained a degree from Northwestern is well educated, as it is one of the finest institutions in the country.

Apologies for any offensive comments.

And in Oregon, we'll also sacrifice jobs to save trees as well.

You know, you add more credibility to your argument when you use the inflammatory "n**i" stereotype. 5 times was necessary to make your point?

It's when someone starts comparing "n**i" to something they "don't like" is usually when they can no longer hold their position in an argument and use it as a trump card.

Hey Nate! Wal-Mart's competition's logo is red and white - just like the flag of said "n**i's", which would appeal to your obvious fascination of said group.

I can't think of a better solution than that!

All this hullabaloo over letting Grandma look at a reciept to make sure the junk you have was actually PURCHASED, and not stoilen? Call me cynical, but anyone who has an issue with this policy(only happens when the alarm goes off or you have a large item that is too big for the bag) is probably a shoplifter.

Now, are you nuts, Nathan? WalMart and n**i's? Full metal jackets? I don't think you know what the term FMJ means.

Here's a hint:you don't wear it.

Stop drinking/smoking whatever it is you have. It's not helping you.

I do not shop at Walmart very often. Should it ever be that I am asked for a receipt. I will not show it. I will continue to walk by.

I dare the n**i facists to search my bag. When I paid for all the items.

The day the n**i facists search my bag is the day that I get a picket sign out and picket their store.

The courts have held that by merely stepping on to private property an individual does not shed their rights from searches.

As for you wet behind the ears (babies) that cry that nazimart should be able to ask for a receipt and search your bags.

Keep it up. It won't belong when the Nazimarts of America will be planting chips in your head to read your thoughts.

I am waiting for the full metal jacket day. The day will come. There will be civil unrest. Government and Nazimart will be the targets.

You were the one who wrote '...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.', which elicited my response, to which you now object.

In a later post, I corrected my error in substituting income for net worth. My bad!

I concede sensors at Nordstrom do not check your bags, but the human who is alerted by the sound does.

I hardly think a PhD is attainable on the Internet. (Note the capitaliation of that last word.) However, the one in Economics from Northwestern has served me well these past years.

I'll grant you the 'l' and 'M' in WalMart are not concatenated. However, the name is not hyphenated, either. Their logo is WAL*MART--identical to what is printed on my dividend checks.

Since this is turning into a pi$$ing contest, I suggest you get a drink of water--your stream is down to droplets. But in Oregon this will be difficult. There they prefer to halt agricultural irrigation, thus causing many families to lose farms they have had for generations to protect a useless Sucker fish.

Good luck in pointing out all my typos. A keyboarder I am not.

You were the one who wrote '...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.', which elicited my response, to which you now object.

In a later post, I corrected my error in substituting income for net worth. My bad!

I concede sensors at Nordstrom do not check your bags, but the human who is alerted by the sound does.

I hardly think a PhD is attainable on the Internet. (Note the capitaliation of that last word.) However, the one in Economics from Northwestern has served me well these past years.

I'll grant you the 'l' and 'M' in WalMart are not concatenated. However, the name is not hyphenated, either. Their logo is WAL*MART--identical to what is printed on my dividend checks.

Since this is turning into a pi$$ing contest, I suggest you get a drink of water--your stream is down to droplets. But in Oregon this will be difficult. There they prefer to halt agricultural irrigation, thus causing many families to lose farms they have had for generations to protect a useless Sucker fish.

Good luck in pointing out all my typos. A keyboarder I am not.

You were the one who wrote '...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.', which elicited my response, to which you now object.

In a later post, I corrected my error in substituting income for net worth. My bad!

I concede sensors at Nordstrom do not check your bags, but the human who is alerted by the sound does.

I hardly think a PhD is attainable on the Internet. (Note the capitaliation of that last word.) However, the one in Economics from Northwestern has served me well these past years.

I'll grant you the 'l' and 'M' in WalMart are not concatenated. However, the name is not hyphenated, either. Their logo is WAL*MART--identical to what is printed on my dividend checks.

Since this is turning into a pi$$ing contest, I suggest you get a drink of water--your stream is down to droplets. But in Oregon this will be difficult. There they prefer to halt agricultural irrigation, thus causing many families to lose farms they have had for generations to protect a useless Sucker fish.

Good luck in pointing out all my typos. A keyboarder I am not.

You were the one who wrote '...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.', which elicited my response, to which you now object.

In a later post, I corrected my error in substituting income for net worth. My bad!

I concede sensors at Nordstrom do not check your bags, but the human who is alerted by the sound does.

I hardly think a PhD is attainable on the Internet. (Note the capitaliation of that last word.) However, the one in Economics from Northwestern has served me well these past years.

I'll grant you the 'l' and 'M' in WalMart are not concatenated. However, the name is not hyphenated, either. Their logo is WAL*MART--identical to what is printed on my dividend checks.

Since this is turning into a pi$$ing contest, I suggest you get a drink of water--your stream is down to droplets. But in Oregon this will be difficult. There they prefer to halt agricultural irrigation, thus causing many families to lose farms they have had for generations to protect a useless Sucker fish.

Good luck in pointing out all my typos. A keyboarder I am not.

Larry, I agree with you 100%. You should NOT be treated as a suspect. However, you shouldn't shop there as a matter of convenience. That's just giving them all the more reason to keep up their gestapo tactics.

Compaining alone will not solve this issue. Complaining AND not shopping there may, though I doubt it. It seems that most of the respondents to this post would probably subject themselves to humilating searches to ensure that they have the privilege to shop at such a fine merchant, unaware that Safeway, Target and Fred Meyer all sell the same stuff at prices equal to or lower than Walmart. I've never been asked for a receipt at any of these merchants. Nor have I seen anyone else been asked.

Unfortunately, Walmart seems to have mesmerized the masses into believing that they have low, low prices. Even a genius worth between approximately 5.5 and 9.9 million bucks and has a PhD (although it's probably in fingerpainting) has been duped.

My advice Larry, move on and don't give them your business. They'll never change.

'How does a high seven-figure income strike you?', should actually read:

'How does a high seven-figure NET WORTH strike you?'

Guess I had high hopes of attaining that one day. Now--what was my comment about the brain being engaged....' :)

'How does a high seven-figure income strike you?', should actually read:

'How does a high seven-figure NET WORTH strike you?'

Guess I had high hopes of attaining that one day. Now--what was my comment about the brain being engaged....' :)

'How does a high seven-figure income strike you?', should actually read:

'How does a high seven-figure NET WORTH strike you?'

Guess I had high hopes of attaining that one day. Now--what was my comment about the brain being engaged....' :)

'How does a high seven-figure income strike you?', should actually read:

'How does a high seven-figure NET WORTH strike you?'

Guess I had high hopes of attaining that one day. Now--what was my comment about the brain being engaged....' :)

R,

Just because it's not a big deal to most people doesn't justify it.

I agree with you that your statement is true, but the converse of your statement is also true:

Just because people make a big deal doesn't mean that it's wrong.

I'm glad that we can agree that the best way to make your opinion known is through your wallet. However, I was curious what your criteria are for labeling something as evil'. As I've stated before: I don't see the sensor towers near the door as anything more than asset protection and any business worth their salt usually employs similar measures.

There are a few businesses that think this is a catchall device and don't bother to position anyone near the door or even acknowledge the alarm when it sounds. Of course, there are probably people out there that buy a security system for their home and never turn it on. Truthfully though, I've only witnessed one store that's a part of a larger whole (Meijer again, not Wal-Mart) but I think I can safely speculate that there has to be one more store / business that does the same.


Larry,

I can write hate literature with a pen or use the same instrument to scrawl legislation that introduces measures that are oppressive and vile, but does that make the pen something we should makes laws against? Should we bar the use of writing utensils in any environment where they would exploit or abuse a minority? The sensor towers (or in my example, a pen) are not the problem, but the way they are utilized is. It doesn't make sense to get rid of something because a certain individual may have put it to a use we see as wrong', bad' or improper'.

In regards to your comment about setting the sensors to register only African-American products, that would involve putting a small RFID (Radio Frequency Identification Device) on each and every product that they use. That would mean every brand of care product, every CD (though all CDs already have the tag), every article of clothing and every other single thing that an African-American person would even think about using.

Of course then you run into a problem: What do you do about those that don't adhere to the common interests and / or tastes of the African American community? You'd have to stick security tags on the latest Garth Brooks compilation album (again, CDs and most electronics have the tags already, so we're covered there). What if they like to bowl? Scrapbook? What if the majority of African-Americans in the area are fish enthusiasts? You can see the logistics involved when you're trying to discriminate by scanner.

RFID tags go on items that are at a high risk of theft such as electronics and music. Other high priced items might also have the tag, but Wal-Mart rarely applies the tags. They come already on the box from the manufacturer.

The sensors don't look for specific products; they look for the RFID tags. You show me a sensor device that can identify merchandise through a bag through some other means and I'll show you an impressed Latino (technically I've got Puerto Rican and German (don't ask) in my family tree, but that's neither here nor there).

They could, I suppose, set to go off after a certain number of people pass through. However, that would involve installing a different set of sensors (similar to the ones that open doors automatically) and would do nothing to deter theft. Any of the first through fourteenth people could have something concealed on their person and walk out without anyone being the wiser.

For the record: Loss Prevention can't be everywhere at once and if you employ too many of them people start to notice.

Also, I would offer another theory as to why they are going through your bags: They are looking for merchandise that was not deactivated by the cashier. Normally the greeters have a wand-like device for this purpose, but some of the older associates don't trust the fancy techno-stuff (a direct quote, mind you) and prefer to do it by eye.

They also could be checking for another reason: Certain kinds of tags found on clothing bleed out' onto the fabric (and thus ruining the garment) when taken outside of the store, and though I haven't seen it with my own eyes I'm sure there are electronic tags that render a product unusable if removed via the same manner. I wouldn't want to buy a shirt, have the cashier forget to remove the ink tag and get home to find my new white button-up has a stain of some god-awful color all over it and everything else that was in the bag.

I wouldn't expect a reply from Wal-Mart overnight short of a computer-generated message that says someone would be getting back with you shortly. You have to remember that Wal-Mart has quite a few stores, an employee base of well in the ten thousands and a customer base conservatively in the millions. I'm sure their complaint department is quite busy.

Just out of curiosity, who did you email and what were the contents? If you don't save your outgoing messages, could we see a synopsis?

Finally, I don't think you're being treated like a suspect. The alarm sounded, which would indicate that you had merchandise that was not deactivated by the cashier. They picked through your bag(s) and either deactivated the tags or sent you on your way with a Have a Nice Day, a nod or (if you were rude or aggressive) a dirty look.

R,

Just because it's not a big deal to most people doesn't justify it.

I agree with you that your statement is true, but the converse of your statement is also true:

Just because people make a big deal doesn't mean that it's wrong.

I'm glad that we can agree that the best way to make your opinion known is through your wallet. However, I was curious what your criteria are for labeling something as evil'. As I've stated before: I don't see the sensor towers near the door as anything more than asset protection and any business worth their salt usually employs similar measures.

There are a few businesses that think this is a catchall device and don't bother to position anyone near the door or even acknowledge the alarm when it sounds. Of course, there are probably people out there that buy a security system for their home and never turn it on. Truthfully though, I've only witnessed one store that's a part of a larger whole (Meijer again, not Wal-Mart) but I think I can safely speculate that there has to be one more store / business that does the same.


Larry,

I can write hate literature with a pen or use the same instrument to scrawl legislation that introduces measures that are oppressive and vile, but does that make the pen something we should makes laws against? Should we bar the use of writing utensils in any environment where they would exploit or abuse a minority? The sensor towers (or in my example, a pen) are not the problem, but the way they are utilized is. It doesn't make sense to get rid of something because a certain individual may have put it to a use we see as wrong', bad' or improper'.

In regards to your comment about setting the sensors to register only African-American products, that would involve putting a small RFID (Radio Frequency Identification Device) on each and every product that they use. That would mean every brand of care product, every CD (though all CDs already have the tag), every article of clothing and every other single thing that an African-American person would even think about using.

Of course then you run into a problem: What do you do about those that don't adhere to the common interests and / or tastes of the African American community? You'd have to stick security tags on the latest Garth Brooks compilation album (again, CDs and most electronics have the tags already, so we're covered there). What if they like to bowl? Scrapbook? What if the majority of African-Americans in the area are fish enthusiasts? You can see the logistics involved when you're trying to discriminate by scanner.

RFID tags go on items that are at a high risk of theft such as electronics and music. Other high priced items might also have the tag, but Wal-Mart rarely applies the tags. They come already on the box from the manufacturer.

The sensors don't look for specific products; they look for the RFID tags. You show me a sensor device that can identify merchandise through a bag through some other means and I'll show you an impressed Latino (technically I've got Puerto Rican and German (don't ask) in my family tree, but that's neither here nor there).

They could, I suppose, set to go off after a certain number of people pass through. However, that would involve installing a different set of sensors (similar to the ones that open doors automatically) and would do nothing to deter theft. Any of the first through fourteenth people could have something concealed on their person and walk out without anyone being the wiser.

For the record: Loss Prevention can't be everywhere at once and if you employ too many of them people start to notice.

Also, I would offer another theory as to why they are going through your bags: They are looking for merchandise that was not deactivated by the cashier. Normally the greeters have a wand-like device for this purpose, but some of the older associates don't trust the fancy techno-stuff (a direct quote, mind you) and prefer to do it by eye.

They also could be checking for another reason: Certain kinds of tags found on clothing bleed out' onto the fabric (and thus ruining the garment) when taken outside of the store, and though I haven't seen it with my own eyes I'm sure there are electronic tags that render a product unusable if removed via the same manner. I wouldn't want to buy a shirt, have the cashier forget to remove the ink tag and get home to find my new white button-up has a stain of some god-awful color all over it and everything else that was in the bag.

I wouldn't expect a reply from Wal-Mart overnight short of a computer-generated message that says someone would be getting back with you shortly. You have to remember that Wal-Mart has quite a few stores, an employee base of well in the ten thousands and a customer base conservatively in the millions. I'm sure their complaint department is quite busy.

Just out of curiosity, who did you email and what were the contents? If you don't save your outgoing messages, could we see a synopsis?

Finally, I don't think you're being treated like a suspect. The alarm sounded, which would indicate that you had merchandise that was not deactivated by the cashier. They picked through your bag(s) and either deactivated the tags or sent you on your way with a Have a Nice Day, a nod or (if you were rude or aggressive) a dirty look.

Here are my responses Einstein:

I have very little use for individuals who toss around their education credentials or affluence, but that comment struck a sensitive nerve! Does a PhD make a person 'poorly educated?' I have attained one--but don't flaunt it until an ignoramous like you makes such an off-the-wall statement.

-You obviously didn't get a PhD in anything involving logic. Where did I state that having a PhD made you poorly educated. They do make you overeducated. Nonetheless, "attaining" one from some dubious institution off of the internet doesnt count.

How does a high seven-figure income strike you? I can (but very seldom do) boast of this, also. I earned it myself. It was not handed to me by inheritance!

-Oh brother, you've got to be kidding me. To make this statement truly shows what an insignificant and insecure little POS you are. Prove it or shut up, a statement like this is just plain juvenile.

...how many times has Nordstroms checked your bags.'

ANY time your walking through the sensors and the alarm sounds! That's how many times.

Did you read any of the post Mr. PhD, we're talking about PHYSICAL bag checks by a human, not the sensors.

OK I'll concede on the 'S', but I don't see the connection between that and my education, which I never even mentioned. However, you can't even spell the name of your beloved Wal-Mart. It's "Wal-Mart", the l&m aren't concatenated.

You really need to put the bottle down and stop fantasizing.

My statements are 100% factual, Wal-Mart primarily caters to lower class, poorly educated individuals. This is not a secret. Why do you think they're bringing in organic foods? For the the trailer trash. No, it's to try to attract a better crowd.

So let's see, you have a seven figure income and you shop at Wal-Mart and live in Michigan. Sure, have another drink Phd Pete.

As far as the term "Nordstroms" it's what's called a Common View Name. A Common View Name is a trade data term that refers to a corporate entity by what the public sees it as, and is accepted by that corporate entity. Type in "Nordstroms.com", and see what you get. I think the results will provide sufficient evidence that I'm not the only NordstromS customer who refers to it this way.

Proclaiming that you have a 7 figure income and a phd kind of makes you look a bit juvenile and insecure. You really can't prove any of this. I think these were the type of things I used to say to bimbos at bars when I was in my twenties.
It never worked.

Further, it appears you don't know how to read or just jumped to a conclusion. Please point out where I stated what my own education was.

Joshua,
The problem I have with the buzzers is anything that can be used can be abused.

It would obviously be in violation of the law for a merchant to search the bags of African-American's only. But what if a merchant sets the buzzer to go off for all hair products marketed for African-Americans, or music which is popular in the African-American or other minority community. This would be a way of circumventing their civil rights of non-discrimination.

I'm accusing Wal-Mart of this, it's just an example of a type of abuse of rights.

Is having certain prescription drugs trigger an alarm a violation of the privacy of the customer? Just because I purchase a perscription there does that mean every employee has a right to see what medication I use? I think not.

Heck, they could set the alarm to trigger with every 15th person that goes through it. Then they would say they had 'cause' to stop you. "No you didn't, you still had no reason to stop me." I guess it could be an argument between the terms 'Reason' and 'Excuse'.

The merchants have use of cameras, and undercover security personnel. I have no problem with those. Shoplifting is a serious crime and cost everyone in increasing prices. But I don't believe that "the end justifies the means".

The alarm goes off, the person ask to see my receipt. They then HAVE to look in my bags to see if there is anything in there not on the receipt. THEY ARE SEARCHING FOR POSSIBLE STOLEN PROPERTY ! If they are searching MY bags for stolen property, that is, through their actions, an accusation.

You know it wouldn't be a big deal to me if it happened once a month. But the super Wal-Mart near us is the only really convienent place to shop. It seems like the alarm going off is more the rule then the exception. This is a new location. It's in a very nice neighborhood, I just don't see any justification to being treated like a suspect .

Still no reply from Wal-Mart on my email.

'...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.'

I have very little use for individuals who toss around their education credentials or affluence, but that comment struck a sensitive nerve! Does a PhD make a person 'poorly educated?' I have attained one--but don't flaunt it until an ignoramous like you makes such an off-the-wall statement.

'...Wal-Mart attracts a very low income...crowd.'

How does a high seven-figure income strike you? I can (but very seldom do) boast of this, also. I earned it myself. It was not handed to me by inheritance!

'...how many times has Nordstroms checked your bags.'

ANY time your walking through the sensors and the alarm sounds! That's how many times.

And, incidentally, on the subject of being 'poorly educated,' the name of the store is Nordstrom--not NordstromS as you referred to it.

As you may have gathered by now, if your 'education' can comprehend, I am a WalMart shopper. I frequent the store because I like their low prices and wide variety of consumer goods. If I need anything in the electronics line, I choose to go elsewhere. But for everyday shopping, WalMart can't be beat.

Be sure the brain is engaged, before the foolish mouth is put into gear.

'...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.'

I have very little use for individuals who toss around their education credentials or affluence, but that comment struck a sensitive nerve! Does a PhD make a person 'poorly educated?' I have attained one--but don't flaunt it until an ignoramous like you makes such an off-the-wall statement.

'...Wal-Mart attracts a very low income...crowd.'

How does a high seven-figure income strike you? I can (but very seldom do) boast of this, also. I earned it myself. It was not handed to me by inheritance!

'...how many times has Nordstroms checked your bags.'

ANY time your walking through the sensors and the alarm sounds! That's how many times.

And, incidentally, on the subject of being 'poorly educated,' the name of the store is Nordstrom--not NordstromS as you referred to it.

As you may have gathered by now, if your 'education' can comprehend, I am a WalMart shopper. I frequent the store because I like their low prices and wide variety of consumer goods. If I need anything in the electronics line, I choose to go elsewhere. But for everyday shopping, WalMart can't be beat.

Be sure the brain is engaged, before the foolish mouth is put into gear.

'...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.'

I have very little use for individuals who toss around their education credentials or affluence, but that comment struck a sensitive nerve! Does a PhD make a person 'poorly educated?' I have attained one--but don't flaunt it until an ignoramous like you makes such an off-the-wall statement.

'...Wal-Mart attracts a very low income...crowd.'

How does a high seven-figure income strike you? I can (but very seldom do) boast of this, also. I earned it myself. It was not handed to me by inheritance!

'...how many times has Nordstroms checked your bags.'

ANY time your walking through the sensors and the alarm sounds! That's how many times.

And, incidentally, on the subject of being 'poorly educated,' the name of the store is Nordstrom--not NordstromS as you referred to it.

As you may have gathered by now, if your 'education' can comprehend, I am a WalMart shopper. I frequent the store because I like their low prices and wide variety of consumer goods. If I need anything in the electronics line, I choose to go elsewhere. But for everyday shopping, WalMart can't be beat.

Be sure the brain is engaged, before the foolish mouth is put into gear.

'...I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd.'

I have very little use for individuals who toss around their education credentials or affluence, but that comment struck a sensitive nerve! Does a PhD make a person 'poorly educated?' I have attained one--but don't flaunt it until an ignoramous like you makes such an off-the-wall statement.

'...Wal-Mart attracts a very low income...crowd.'

How does a high seven-figure income strike you? I can (but very seldom do) boast of this, also. I earned it myself. It was not handed to me by inheritance!

'...how many times has Nordstroms checked your bags.'

ANY time your walking through the sensors and the alarm sounds! That's how many times.

And, incidentally, on the subject of being 'poorly educated,' the name of the store is Nordstrom--not NordstromS as you referred to it.

As you may have gathered by now, if your 'education' can comprehend, I am a WalMart shopper. I frequent the store because I like their low prices and wide variety of consumer goods. If I need anything in the electronics line, I choose to go elsewhere. But for everyday shopping, WalMart can't be beat.

Be sure the brain is engaged, before the foolish mouth is put into gear.

Just because it's not a big deal to most people doesn't justify it. Concrete evidence that the detainee committed theft does justify it. It's that simple.

I personally have never seesn a bag check at any store that I have shopped at. Nor would I shop at store that does this because I'm not a thief.

But I know that Wal-Mart attracts a very low income, poorly educated crowd. A lot of thiefs do their "shopping" at Wal-Mart. I stay out for this reason alone. And since Wal-Mart will most likely never change their evil ways, the best bet is stay out. That's the best message you can send to them.

And for all the losers who say that all stores do this, well, how many times has Nordstroms checked your bags.

Larry

They determine what merchandise triggers it.

That is their choice. They tag expensive merchandise to keep shoplifters from just walking out with some of the smaller (more expensive) merchandise tucked away under their clothing.

They can control it, and then use it to search.

The sensors towers' (I believe that's what they call them) are set to sound when they detect an RFID or GATOR tag. There is a test button, but it's lodged in the housing, and can't be triggered by remote or without being blatantly obvious that you're doing it.

Merchant's Privilege

Most jurisdictions grant merchants the right to apply reasonable force to detain shoplifters, or other persons who the merchant reasonably believes are attempting to steal the merchant's property.

The problem here is trying to define reasonable force'. This has been a courtroom problem for eons with everything from assault cases down on to well other assault cases.

On another note:

How is being stopped at the door humiliating or degrading? Are they forcing you to do jumping jacks in an open kimono? Do they slather you in barbecue sauce, feathers and force you into a chicken dance? Do they shout racial slurs while pelting you with eggs?

Are they rude? If so, are you rude back (thereby making a bad situation worse)?

I have found time and time again that it is much easier to simply be polite, courteous, and agreeable. If they want to search your bags, so what? Unless you bought an extra-large rubber phallus with the tickler option you have nothing to be embarrassed about! On the other hand, if you turn red because a senior citizen happens to spy the Preparation-H you just bought, I think you might want to try ordering online. There are no bags to search in cyberspace.

Now I'm not inferring that you would be the kind of person to purchase either Preparation-H or a giant rubber phallus (with tickler option), I'm simply using them as an example. I just don't see why certain people get so uptight about something so small. These measures are in place to help (not eliminate, just help) deter theft. Not to keep costs down (that's an indirect effect. If you don't have to eat the costs of stolen merchandise, you can continues to offer products at a lower price, no matter how large the company is), not to make people feel degraded or humiliated, and definitely NOT to give Loss Prevention an excuse to wave their snow-signer in the face of the generally shoplift-less public.

If you have a problem, get enough (mature, responsible, and above all reasonable) support behind you and get the policy changed. Or, you can protest in the most effective way: take your business somewhere else. Encourage others to do the same. Do not be rude. Do not act in a fashion that could be construed as immature or aggressive. And if I didn't say it enough: Do not (again for emphasis: DO NOT) ever, under any circumstance, purchase anything from any store that you feel has mistreated you. By purchasing merchandise from a vendor you are saying that you agree to abide by their rules while in their establishment and adhere to whatever policies they operate under.

That means if you go into a store that has a policy like this:

All customers, upon leaving the store may be subject to a full cavity search

Then you might be getting a rubber glove stuffed somewhere unpleasant. Of course, with something that extreme, I'd expect them to at least post it on a sign somewhere and rely on word-of-mouth to do the rest.

I can already spot a flaw in my theory: Wal-Mart doesn't post its security policy. Why? Simple: If they posted every security measure (they actually have more of a security plan than little old ladies humiliating people at the door) then those that actually intended to shoplift would be able to find ways around them.

That's the same reason banks don't publish what you need to get into the vault. It's all about asset protection.

Wal-Mart became the behemoth corporation it is because it knew how to protect its products from people with sticky fingers. Wal-Mart is also huge because they played the business game and played it well. It's kind of a crock to see someone make it and then get dumped on by the public because they weren't fortunate enough to have a multi-billion dollar company. Hell, I look at the Walton family and think Good God Almighty! The things I could do if I had that much moo-lah!

I'm not saying that your jealousy is the reason you're irked at Wal-Mart's policies regarding bag searches, but there are many sore losers out there that have gone to great lengths to stain Wal-Mart's reputation. Want an example? Here you go:

I used to work for Meijer. For those of you outside of the Midwest, its Wal-Mart, but the color of the shirts are red, not blue. For years Meijer didn't have a single soul to compete against and then WHAM! Wal-Mart came in and kicked Meijer straight in the teeny beanies. People were outraged. Most of their ire was due to the fact that Wal-Mart refused to unionize, but they also beat the local stores hands down when it came to price.

Then the reports came tricking in: Wal-Mart was biased against women. Wal-Mart underpaid its employees. Wal-Mart locked its employees in the store and forced them to work unpaid overtime. Wal-Mart is anti-small business. Wal-Mart strip-searches customers at random. Wal-Mart will take your children. Wal-Mart is the reason for bad television reception. Wal-Mart made my bread stale. Wal-Mart kicked my dog. Wal-mart forgot to wash its hands after it went to the bathroom.

People (at least the people up here in the big M) are deathly afraid of change or anything that goes against their values or traditions. Of course since we live in a city run by the UAW, anything anti-union is Satan in a tuxedo, but this new superstore with its low prices and squeaky-clean, wax polished floors really rattled them.

God forbid they have competition.

I'm sorry. I have a tendency to ramble when under the influence of cold medicine, and it's the season where my sinuses make like Niagara Falls, dumping a load of whatever it is down into my lungs. The only alternative is whiskey, and they don't let me drink at work.

I'll sum it up simply: Being stopped at the door is only a big deal if you make it so. Since you didn't steal anything, you have nothing to hide and Occam's Razor is very clear cut: Humor the greeter's and you'll be on your way faster than you can say Wal-Mart Sucks

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Larry

They determine what merchandise triggers it.

That is their choice. They tag expensive merchandise to keep shoplifters from just walking out with some of the smaller (more expensive) merchandise tucked away under their clothing.

They can control it, and then use it to search.

The sensors towers' (I believe that's what they call them) are set to sound when they detect an RFID or GATOR tag. There is a test button, but it's lodged in the housing, and can't be triggered by remote or without being blatantly obvious that you're doing it.

Merchant's Privilege

Most jurisdictions grant merchants the right to apply reasonable force to detain shoplifters, or other persons who the merchant reasonably believes are attempting to steal the merchant's property.

The problem here is trying to define reasonable force'. This has been a courtroom problem for eons with everything from assault cases down on to well other assault cases.

On another note:

How is being stopped at the door humiliating or degrading? Are they forcing you to do jumping jacks in an open kimono? Do they slather you in barbecue sauce, feathers and force you into a chicken dance? Do they shout racial slurs while pelting you with eggs?

Are they rude? If so, are you rude back (thereby making a bad situation worse)?

I have found time and time again that it is much easier to simply be polite, courteous, and agreeable. If they want to search your bags, so what? Unless you bought an extra-large rubber phallus with the tickler option you have nothing to be embarrassed about! On the other hand, if you turn red because a senior citizen happens to spy the Preparation-H you just bought, I think you might want to try ordering online. There are no bags to search in cyberspace.

Now I'm not inferring that you would be the kind of person to purchase either Preparation-H or a giant rubber phallus (with tickler option), I'm simply using them as an example. I just don't see why certain people get so uptight about something so small. These measures are in place to help (not eliminate, just help) deter theft. Not to keep costs down (that's an indirect effect. If you don't have to eat the costs of stolen merchandise, you can continues to offer products at a lower price, no matter how large the company is), not to make people feel degraded or humiliated, and definitely NOT to give Loss Prevention an excuse to wave their snow-signer in the face of the generally shoplift-less public.

If you have a problem, get enough (mature, responsible, and above all reasonable) support behind you and get the policy changed. Or, you can protest in the most effective way: take your business somewhere else. Encourage others to do the same. Do not be rude. Do not act in a fashion that could be construed as immature or aggressive. And if I didn't say it enough: Do not (again for emphasis: DO NOT) ever, under any circumstance, purchase anything from any store that you feel has mistreated you. By purchasing merchandise from a vendor you are saying that you agree to abide by their rules while in their establishment and adhere to whatever policies they operate under.

That means if you go into a store that has a policy like this:

All customers, upon leaving the store may be subject to a full cavity search

Then you might be getting a rubber glove stuffed somewhere unpleasant. Of course, with something that extreme, I'd expect them to at least post it on a sign somewhere and rely on word-of-mouth to do the rest.

I can already spot a flaw in my theory: Wal-Mart doesn't post its security policy. Why? Simple: If they posted every security measure (they actually have more of a security plan than little old ladies humiliating people at the door) then those that actually intended to shoplift would be able to find ways around them.

That's the same reason banks don't publish what you need to get into the vault. It's all about asset protection.

Wal-Mart became the behemoth corporation it is because it knew how to protect its products from people with sticky fingers. Wal-Mart is also huge because they played the business game and played it well. It's kind of a crock to see someone make it and then get dumped on by the public because they weren't fortunate enough to have a multi-billion dollar company. Hell, I look at the Walton family and think Good God Almighty! The things I could do if I had that much moo-lah!

I'm not saying that your jealousy is the reason you're irked at Wal-Mart's policies regarding bag searches, but there are many sore losers out there that have gone to great lengths to stain Wal-Mart's reputation. Want an example? Here you go:

I used to work for Meijer. For those of you outside of the Midwest, its Wal-Mart, but the color of the shirts are red, not blue. For years Meijer didn't have a single soul to compete against and then WHAM! Wal-Mart came in and kicked Meijer straight in the teeny beanies. People were outraged. Most of their ire was due to the fact that Wal-Mart refused to unionize, but they also beat the local stores hands down when it came to price.

Then the reports came tricking in: Wal-Mart was biased against women. Wal-Mart underpaid its employees. Wal-Mart locked its employees in the store and forced them to work unpaid overtime. Wal-Mart is anti-small business. Wal-Mart strip-searches customers at random. Wal-Mart will take your children. Wal-Mart is the reason for bad television reception. Wal-Mart made my bread stale. Wal-Mart kicked my dog. Wal-mart forgot to wash its hands after it went to the bathroom.

People (at least the people up here in the big M) are deathly afraid of change or anything that goes against their values or traditions. Of course since we live in a city run by the UAW, anything anti-union is Satan in a tuxedo, but this new superstore with its low prices and squeaky-clean, wax polished floors really rattled them.

God forbid they have competition.

I'm sorry. I have a tendency to ramble when under the influence of cold medicine, and it's the season where my sinuses make like Niagara Falls, dumping a load of whatever it is down into my lungs. The only alternative is whiskey, and they don't let me drink at work.

I'll sum it up simply: Being stopped at the door is only a big deal if you make it so. Since you didn't steal anything, you have nothing to hide and Occam's Razor is very clear cut: Humor the greeter's and you'll be on your way faster than you can say Wal-Mart Sucks

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Larry

They determine what merchandise triggers it.

That is their choice. They tag expensive merchandise to keep shoplifters from just walking out with some of the smaller (more expensive) merchandise tucked away under their clothing.

They can control it, and then use it to search.

The sensors towers' (I believe that's what they call them) are set to sound when they detect an RFID or GATOR tag. There is a test button, but it's lodged in the housing, and can't be triggered by remote or without being blatantly obvious that you're doing it.

Merchant's Privilege

Most jurisdictions grant merchants the right to apply reasonable force to detain shoplifters, or other persons who the merchant reasonably believes are attempting to steal the merchant's property.

The problem here is trying to define reasonable force'. This has been a courtroom problem for eons with everything from assault cases down on to well other assault cases.

On another note:

How is being stopped at the door humiliating or degrading? Are they forcing you to do jumping jacks in an open kimono? Do they slather you in barbecue sauce, feathers and force you into a chicken dance? Do they shout racial slurs while pelting you with eggs?

Are they rude? If so, are you rude back (thereby making a bad situation worse)?

I have found time and time again that it is much easier to simply be polite, courteous, and agreeable. If they want to search your bags, so what? Unless you bought an extra-large rubber phallus with the tickler option you have nothing to be embarrassed about! On the other hand, if you turn red because a senior citizen happens to spy the Preparation-H you just bought, I think you might want to try ordering online. There are no bags to search in cyberspace.

Now I'm not inferring that you would be the kind of person to purchase either Preparation-H or a giant rubber phallus (with tickler option), I'm simply using them as an example. I just don't see why certain people get so uptight about something so small. These measures are in place to help (not eliminate, just help) deter theft. Not to keep costs down (that's an indirect effect. If you don't have to eat the costs of stolen merchandise, you can continues to offer products at a lower price, no matter how large the company is), not to make people feel degraded or humiliated, and definitely NOT to give Loss Prevention an excuse to wave their snow-signer in the face of the generally shoplift-less public.

If you have a problem, get enough (mature, responsible, and above all reasonable) support behind you and get the policy changed. Or, you can protest in the most effective way: take your business somewhere else. Encourage others to do the same. Do not be rude. Do not act in a fashion that could be construed as immature or aggressive. And if I didn't say it enough: Do not (again for emphasis: DO NOT) ever, under any circumstance, purchase anything from any store that you feel has mistreated you. By purchasing merchandise from a vendor you are saying that you agree to abide by their rules while in their establishment and adhere to whatever policies they operate under.

That means if you go into a store that has a policy like this:

All customers, upon leaving the store may be subject to a full cavity search

Then you might be getting a rubber glove stuffed somewhere unpleasant. Of course, with something that extreme, I'd expect them to at least post it on a sign somewhere and rely on word-of-mouth to do the rest.

I can already spot a flaw in my theory: Wal-Mart doesn't post its security policy. Why? Simple: If they posted every security measure (they actually have more of a security plan than little old ladies humiliating people at the door) then those that actually intended to shoplift would be able to find ways around them.

That's the same reason banks don't publish what you need to get into the vault. It's all about asset protection.

Wal-Mart became the behemoth corporation it is because it knew how to protect its products from people with sticky fingers. Wal-Mart is also huge because they played the business game and played it well. It's kind of a crock to see someone make it and then get dumped on by the public because they weren't fortunate enough to have a multi-billion dollar company. Hell, I look at the Walton family and think Good God Almighty! The things I could do if I had that much moo-lah!

I'm not saying that your jealousy is the reason you're irked at Wal-Mart's policies regarding bag searches, but there are many sore losers out there that have gone to great lengths to stain Wal-Mart's reputation. Want an example? Here you go:

I used to work for Meijer. For those of you outside of the Midwest, its Wal-Mart, but the color of the shirts are red, not blue. For years Meijer didn't have a single soul to compete against and then WHAM! Wal-Mart came in and kicked Meijer straight in the teeny beanies. People were outraged. Most of their ire was due to the fact that Wal-Mart refused to unionize, but they also beat the local stores hands down when it came to price.

Then the reports came tricking in: Wal-Mart was biased against women. Wal-Mart underpaid its employees. Wal-Mart locked its employees in the store and forced them to work unpaid overtime. Wal-Mart is anti-small business. Wal-Mart strip-searches customers at random. Wal-Mart will take your children. Wal-Mart is the reason for bad television reception. Wal-Mart made my bread stale. Wal-Mart kicked my dog. Wal-mart forgot to wash its hands after it went to the bathroom.

People (at least the people up here in the big M) are deathly afraid of change or anything that goes against their values or traditions. Of course since we live in a city run by the UAW, anything anti-union is Satan in a tuxedo, but this new superstore with its low prices and squeaky-clean, wax polished floors really rattled them.

God forbid they have competition.

I'm sorry. I have a tendency to ramble when under the influence of cold medicine, and it's the season where my sinuses make like Niagara Falls, dumping a load of whatever it is down into my lungs. The only alternative is whiskey, and they don't let me drink at work.

I'll sum it up simply: Being stopped at the door is only a big deal if you make it so. Since you didn't steal anything, you have nothing to hide and Occam's Razor is very clear cut: Humor the greeter's and you'll be on your way faster than you can say Wal-Mart Sucks

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I simply did a google search on "Merchant's Privilege". They vary a little from state to state but are basically the same. I check some law sites but didn't save the urls.

Does the buzzer give them a legal right. Couldn't find anything that could be interpreted that way. The problem I have with the buzzer is that they can set it to go off anytime. They determine what merchandise triggers it. They can control it, and then use it to search. I sent an email to Wal-Mart, basically saying the same thing I put in my previous email. I haven't heard anything back yet. If I do I'll post it here.

I clearly understand stopping someone if they have merchandise that is not bagged. Although some stores put bright tape on these items to signal that it was purchased, I can understand some stops.

As far as 'assault goes. I surly hope it doesn't go that way. I don't want a physical confrontation if at all possible. There is also a law against 'unlawful restraint'. This is what Merchants Privilege protect a store from, and gives them the right to restrain shoplifters. But like I said it is pretty clear on what a store must do to justify restraining you.

If a person puts their hands on me it might not be an assault. But if they try to stop me from leaving, entering my car, or use any type of force, then I would consider myself under assault. I REALLY hope this never happens.
I hope Wal-mart will understand that the customers have rights also. I really feel that stopping me the way they do is humiliating, embarrassing, and degrading. They are saying through their actions "we think you might have stolen something".

I would think that if you set off the alarm on your way out of the store that it would constitute probable cause. If I set off the alarm, I stop, have the attendent check my bag and receipt and in 3 seconds I'm on my way.

No police, no detainment, no claim for harassment, no being chased through the parking lot by store security, no lawsuits, no court trips, no lawyers. Get my point?

Larry,

I hate to nitpick, but could you post your source? I only ask because I've noticed that several people mention certain information / laws / statues and fail to mention where they found it. I like to see information firsthand. If you could quote the site or book that you found the information in, it would be most helpful.

Also, before you go about beating down Wal-Mart employees, I would recommend taking a look at what constitutes an assault in the state of Kentucky.

I checked on Kentucky's website and found this:

508.030 Assault in the fourth degree.
(1) A person is guilty of assault in the fourth degree when:
(a) He intentionally or wantonly causes physical injury to another person; or
(b) With recklessness he causes physical injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument
(2) Assault in the fourth degree is a Class A misdemeanor

Source: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/508%2D00/chapter.htm

That means that it is only considered an assault if they caused you physical harm with or without a weapon. I'm not sure where the You touched me, and that's assault came from, but it is a misconception that could end up costing many people a lot of money.

Just be careful if you're going to take physical action.

Thank you for researching merchant laws. I think this answered a lot of questions, and can settle a lot of arguments among several posters.

With that being said, you stated it was not covered under merchant law for Wal-Mart to do random stops at the exit. This I can agree with. Then you say you set off the alarm when leaving. This means you are no longer a random search, but someone who gives probable cause for Wal-mart to search your bags and check your receipt. The alarms are there to catch shop lifters. True, some times the cashier doesn't demagnetize an Item. I've had this happen at other stores when I bought electronics. I don't throw a fit when I'm stopped. I actually turn around willingly and let them check my bags.

So, could you check the law and see if Wal-mart is covered under probable cause?

Thanks.

I read all the comments about being stopped leaving the Walmart store. I then checked on the laws pertaining to Merchant Privilege (laws that give merchants certain rights in dealing with shoplifters). Stopping randomly at the door is not covered under merchant privileges.

I was stopped again yesterday leaving a Walmart in Fort Wright Kentucky. The buzzer went off. The woman came over and starts going through my bag and wanted to see my receipt. This was the last time I will stop ! The next time the buzzer goes off or they try to stop me I will just keep walking. I refuse to be treated like a criminal. Even the police must have probable cause.

When I ask her what caused the buzzer to go off she said she didn't know. If they think I stole something then they can call the police. I will no longer stop when ask. I don't feel that they are "just doing their job'. I would guess that 3 out of 5 time I get stopped because the buzzer goes off. I feel that its the prescriptions that are doing it. But that is their problem not mine. Don't MAKE the buzzer go off then use that as a reason to stop me. She stops me because the buzzer goes off then can't even tell me what caused it.

Say what you want, I will keep shopping there, but will not stop for any store employees. If they want to call the police then they can. That will be recorded, and then I will have documentation to use in court against them for harassment. I don't think they would be stupid enough to try to physically stop me. That would constitute an assault and could legally defend myself.

Under the laws pertaining to shoplifters they have to have a 'Security Person' see you take something or not pay for it. The laws are pretty clear. What Wal-Mart is doing is not covered by Merchant Privilege.

The buzzers go off at the door at Wal-Mart because something in your bag has a sensor on it that was not deactivated at the register. The people greeters not "door greeter"(they are greeting people not doors) are simply doing their job by responding to the buzzer. So maybe you should have investigated this situation before making such a ridiculous allegation! thanks, TAN

To the original complainer:

Yes, Walmart randomly checks bags coming and going into the store. This is part of their loss-prevention strategy. They also monitor various areas of the store, and stop anyone who they deem questionable. If you do not like it, do not shop there! There are many other stores, for example, Target, that do not engage in random searches and have other policy differences from Walmart.

Will you likely stop shopping at Walmart and go to another store? I doubt it. I think that you will continue to go to Walmart for their cheap prices and convenience. If this is the case, then you have NO RIGHT to complain, as you CHOOSE to return to the store. By choosing to return, you are in effect showing your approval of how the store treats its customers.

So suck it up and either quit yer whining, or shop somewhere else where you agree with the policies!

We now live in a world where as sad as it is, people shoplift all the time, so the greeters are not CHECKING EVERYONE, but hey they are our elderly, trying to feed themselves ,so picking on then is sad.I applaud wal mart for giving them the opportunity to work and make a comfortable living for themselves.
A company that deals with any kind of retail should be able to protect themselves from thievery.If you owned a store , for instance, and you thought someone looked suspious, i would assume you would stop them, if people DID not shoplift we would not have to have our purchases checked at the door. BUT since we can't stop every thief out there, randomly checking bags and receipts are nothing compared to the prices we would pay if they weren't caught, people shop at wal mart becuase they have lower prices therefore, it really hurts places like walmart and discount stores when people steal.
I do not take it personally if I am stopped, I paid for it, I have proof.

NOW AS FOR TODDY BOY:Why don't you dry up? I am not a man and obviously your research you stated that you did , that we were all the same people is a lie, like many of your other LIES.Your response to people asking for the truth was to, as you put it, FLOOD THE SITE WITH JIBBERISH! I suggest you take a good LONG, LONG, LOOK AT YOUR POSTINGS , Kirk, Spock, Scotty , who is dead by the way,AND HE EVEN SPOKE LOL You are a mental case Todd and no one who has read your site entirely believes you, you say you are one person one minute, then the next you are a different person. Why don't you do something else besides spreading YOUR JIBBERISH and FLOODING postings, like maybe play with match box cars? or better yet get yourself arrested again so we can never see another posting from you the lIAR!

I am not the only one who checked out your story and found it to be false. Thus, becuase we EXPOSED you as a liar, and I might add swearing isn't something a "devout christian" does dear.Anyways, you got mad we found out the truth so you come onto every posting of walmart to spread your so called gospel and story. A story I might add that never happened.You slander Denny , Nick and I becuase we stood up to the "devout christian" and called him on his lies. So give it up Todd, or whoever you are this week, you have been outed as a liar, accept it, ask God for forgiveness and get a hobby!

This is in response to Matthew that stated a person that is tresspassed off a walmart property is tresspassed off of all walmart properties.

This is not true, after spending a number of years in law enforcement and issusing "criminal tresspassing" warnings to persons, I can correctly state that a criminal tresspass warning is only good for the property that it was issused on. If a criminal tresspass warning was allowed for all stores of a given incident it would be almost impossible for a person to go to any mall or shopping center in the United States without being in violation of the warning.

Just thought the true fact should be stated.

While technically the people greeter is SUPPOSED to check all unbagged merchandise, it isn't realistic. First of all, they tend to be older people just trying to supplement their retirement and don't have a lot of energy to begin with. Second, they have a lot more to do than it seems like.

When people walk into wal-mart, the vast majority of them want a shopping cart. When you walk in, although you're the only one wanting a cart, it's only a matter of a few seconds before someone else needs one. I'll just go ahead and write a list of things greeters are responsible for.

1. Getting carts from the back of the bay towards the front so they can pass them to customers (no small feat for an 80 pound senior citizen, try pushing 50 carts at the time for hours on end and let me know how you feel).
2. Passing carts to customers.
3. Informing their managers if they are running low on carts so their managers can make sure more carts are coming before they will run out.
4. Getting electric carts for customers that request them and making sure they are properly parked and plugged in when the customers return them so they are ready for the next customer.
5. Setting up cones for slip/trip hazards during wet weather.
6. Greeting the customers walking through the doors (usually the least followed procedure).
7. Checking the recycle bins to see when they need to be emptied (the green boxes where customers put shopping bags to be recycled).
8. Making sure any trash left by other customers in shopping carts gets thrown away (and believe me, there are a lot of disgusting people in this world that feel it's appropriate to clean out their car's fast food bags for the first time in a year when they have a cart in their hands).
9. Offering stickers to children who come in (those smiley face stickers).
10. Making sure anyone with a return gets their return marked so the service desk knows the customer walked INTO the store with the merchandise, and isn't just bringing up merchandise from the sales floor.
11. Answering questions about where products are for customers looking for a specific item (as the greeter is the first person that works in the store that the customer sees).
12. Collecting baskets (not carts, but the plastic hand baskets for people who only plan on getting a few things take) from the registers since the cashiers usually don't have time to do it.
13. Stopping people who set off the alarm and recording the cashier, register number, etc. who failed to de-activate the electronic tag on the item. If there is a trend with a cashier not deactivating (more than one), the cashier is reprimanded. If there is a trend with a register not deactivating, the sensormatic equipment is tested and called in for repair if neccesary. The number of times customers are stopped because merchandise wasn't deactivated is recorded (stores are allowed 5 per day unless things have changed in the last couple years), and there are codes for all other times the alarm is set off, such as TIA (tag in area, where someone knows something wasn't deactivated, but it needs to go through the doors anyway), FTD (failure to deactivate, which is what cashiers are reprimanded for), TST (Test, to make sure the equipment works), etc.
14. Ask for receipts for expensive/large merchandise that isn't bagged, or for customers who were seen walking from somewhere other than the front registers before they left.

With dozens of people walking in and out at any given time, randomly asking for proof of purchase isn't really very high on a greeter's to do list. Having said that, there are those who are over-zealous, and focus more on some parts of their job than others, and those that don't treat customers like. Well, customers.

Most of the greeters I've met are either widows or veterans of war. They don't work at wal-mart because they love people, they work there because social security doesn't pay their bills. I don't know if you've ever worked with the elderly, but training them to do something they don't want to do is near impossible.

All I can say is that greeters are trained to be polite, apologetic for stopping you, and thank you for your time for stopping, and for shopping at wal-mart. If they do otherwise, as I've said before, make a formal, written complaint. Wal-Mart won't change their behavior if they don't know it needs to be changed. I guarantee that letting the store manager know will be exponentially more effective than telling a few random people on the internet.

No, I don't use spellcheck, Yes I left the u out four.

About two days ago I had a little time to spare, so I went into the same store again. I did not go there to do any shopping. I just stayed there for a few minutes to see what was going on. I noticed several shoppers leaving the store with large unbagged merchandise, and one shopper had about for of the huge rubbermaid storage containers in her cart. Noone even checked thier recipts as they left the store. So whats the deal with checking unbagged merchandise?

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ENFORCE THE TRESSPASSING RULE, AND NO NOT ALL WAL-MART WORKERS ARE UNINTELLIGENT,oops sorry for the caps,but however posted the they lose money by flasely accusing someone is also correct, I know my family shops there all the time without incident.I also know we do spend a good bit of our money there, from t.v.s on down.
AS for Todd, since Todd wouldn't give out the info I reserached his complaint myself which starteda tirade by Todd, he was going to have me arresssted for violating"Todd's" privacy, yet he turned around and posted all these peoples name counties they live in, and states and case #'s , Thus, he violated their privacy, then he said he was found innocent and his records were destroyed, which I also informed him was not true if falsely ARESSTED most people go after companys for a civil judgement, and they never destroy case # or arrest records, even though I already knew he was lying we all did, he had multiple personalities, called himself SirToddKnight, and yes I and the "others" who disagreed with him were satanists, god haters etc. he even created a site called insulters/ god haters flooding postings,

So please don't put any stock into the "Todd" story, in fact "TODD" doesn't exist at all.
I guess some people have problems with every company, and yes they have a right to post it, there are always goingto be people who disagree, but thats AMERICA!

We had a right to ask for proof since we all shopped there and having someone do that in front of our chilren was scary and it would have prevented me from going there, I always have my 9 year old there with me.

Denny,

Thank you for the clarification. I do most of my posting at work, and all of the translation sites are banned through the firewall that the company uses. I can find the bathroom and effectively curse in about three different languages, but that is the limit of my foreign linguistic prowess.

As for Todd spreading his religious mayo all over the multi-level sandwich that I'm using as a metaphor for the Internet, that's his right as an American (or an extra terrestrial posing as an American if that is indeed the case). It is also our right to ignore anyone so armed completely in the hopes that they will eventually go away or find somewhere else to spread their Miracle Whip.

Don't ask where they mayo references are coming from, I'm just as confused as you are.

Anyway, I've found the easiest way to whip someone into a religious fervor is to question him or her, and the easiest way to get him or her to go away is to ignore the rhetoric completely. I've also noticed that it is impossible to make anyone provide information over the Internet if they don't want to. I think I posted this before on another thread, but I might as well throw the idea against this wall and see if it sticks.

Amy,

You are right about the generalization that categorizes all Wal-Mart employees are ignorant is false. I can't vouch for the payment issue because I only knew what I was being paid and made no attempt to figure out what my fellow associates were raking in on an hourly basis. I didn't complain (Actually I did, but I was quiet about it) because a small paycheck is always better than no paycheck.

However, the opposite of the generalization is also false (all Wal-Mart employees are bright and well paid). Again, I can only vouch for the intelligence side and not the pay scale for the same reason stated above. Without getting into detail, I can safely say I worked with several people who possessed below-average intelligence. To be perfectly fair there was a thirty-to-forty percent chance that I was one of those employees on any given day.

Though I think I might offer a theory as to why everyone thinks Wal-Mart underpays their employees:

I'm from Michigan and until recently, the UAW (United Auto Workers) has been negotiating for their workers. Unskilled laborers make upwards of fifteen dollars an hour, and anyone who has been there for any amount of time makes closer to twenty or thirty.

(Now people are realizing that the UAW and all its glory is the reason automobile costs are so high and it's also one of the few reasons that General Motors has to shut down the plants. That, however, is neither here nor there.)

People see jobs like that (as well as a few others that pay very well for unskilled labor) and think, Why shouldn't Wal-Mart pay me the same? Most people fail to realize that a Wal-Mart Associate is an entry-level job. Most positions you can apply for right out of high school and require no special knowledge or certifications, and the workload is right up there with your average fast food restaurant.

It's near impossible to make a hundred grand directly out of high school, though everyone seems to think they can. That, at least, is my take on the issue.

Again, I can't speak for everywhere else. I can only speak about what I've seen locally.

OK I have been asked for recpits and onloy once was i compelety mad about it. Because I had things in the bottom of my cart that weren't bagged due to size. You could tell I had just spent over 200.00 in food and the pop and stuff wasn't bagged.

I now know that everything needs to be bagged. Krogers uses paid stickers on big stuff and has been checking things for years. Wal mart can only keep prices low for so long and i for one would like to see them stay low and hope they can catch people that steal and raise our prices.

Now they are tracking when something goes off at the door running it through and magntic and not only writing down what the item and number is they are also writing down the cashiers number and talking with them to make sure they do deactiveate the magnic bar.

As for the @ss that claims that all the employees are underpaid and not educated, well goes to show what you know. Wal mart pays well over min wage and most areas is one the better paying jobs. Check your facts first so you don't have to remove your foot to knee out your mouth.

But that isn't entirely the point. Obviously its impossible to actually ENFORCE the order of tresspass on a global scale, just as it is impossible to stop every single person who speeds in their car every time they do it. That doesn't make it any less illegal just because you can get away with it. But the point is Wal-Mart is telling them never to come back, and therefore doesn't expect to ever see them spend a penny in their stores. Just because it can't be enforced doesn't change the fact that it is bad business to arrest and kick people out of your store who have NOT stolen anything (as Todd seems to be claiming).

Also, I'm sure you havn't seen any pictures of people hanging up at your store, but that's because they're in a filing cabinet in loss prevention's office that most non-loss prevention associates never see. The reason being only loss prevention or management have the authority to ask someone who has been tresspassed to leave, and they have to be positive that the person they're asking to leave really is someone who at some point was tresspassed. And I've seen about half a dozen people be recognized and asked to leave for it (including one girl who actually came in for a job interview and was recognized by a former loss prevention associate).

What i can't understand is how can they ban you from everywalmart around the world? your picture isn't hanging up there, i work at one and i never see a picture hangin up in there of people who have stolen. a very dishonest family member tried to steal a riding lawn mower while drunk at 3 a.m. and of course was arrested but he still comes in there, and so does his wife and kids. '

i am not condoning the action of my dumb ace family, but what i'm trying to say is the managers don't enforce that rule. maybe a month or two after it happens they enforce it, but after that they have too much time to do than walk around the store making sure people that have stolen from them before aren't in there. how can you be prevented from ever going into walmart? they say this, but there is no true way to enforce this. maybe in your town you were caught stealing, but that doesn't mean if you go 20 miles south to the next walmart, they are gonna know about it. i've never really understood this rule, i can see not letting you go into the store where the crime first took place, but you can't stop them from going into a store that's not in that home town. j

and as far as not going into the parking lot, at the walmar i work at, that means they can't go to long john silvers or the good will because it's all in the same parking lot.

Todd:
Their goal, it seems, to flood the original post and not allow any creditable post to be noticed. The reader will conclude that whenever someone post an educated posting, these "insulters" flood around the educated posting, in hopes no one will see the educated posting.

Todd's rendition of an educated posting includes stealing, forgetting, remembering, and providing half-truths, multiple identities, insults to those who call out his obvious inaccuracies, smokescreen and various verbal religious paraphenelia to justify his actions.

He accused Ruth of being a man and Denny of being ruled by Satan. While normally insulting, hearing that from a psychopath who calls himself "Sir Toddoknight" and thanks God for himsef is just plain disturbing.

If that sounds like what you're looking for, Todd is your man.

I'll admit Wal-Mart isn't run by a group of geniuses, but it doesn't take much common sense to figure out that what you're implying isn't good business.

You're saying that Wal-Mart makes $6,500 for arresting its customers who DIDN'T steal anything. At least I assume that's what you're saying, because I can't imagine you could make a valid argument for why Wal-Mart shouldn't prosecute people who are proven to have stolen from them. So here is where things start not making sense:

When a person is arrested for shoplifting at Wal-Mart, they are "tresspassed". Meaning they are forbidden from every coming onto the property of any Wal-Mart in the world, and can be arrested for tresspassing if they do. Meaning Wal-Mart expects never to make another penny from them (how would they if they can't come in their store?).

Many, many customers spend multiple thousands of dollars a year in Wal-Mart. So how would it possibly be good business for Wal-Mart to make $6500 once off a customer by arresting them and then never get their business again? Certainly they make more money off customers that they allow to shop in the store than customers they arrest.

Joshua, dont expect a straight answer from "Todd" and his many personalities. In his report (falsely accused by Walmart) where he was caught stealing a sandwhich he ate while in the store, he's posted that "he wasn't" todd and then said that he was.

His Modus Operandi (mode of operation) is to spread his religious rhetoric, preach and of course lie about what has happened to him. He bases all his "conclusions" on delusions he's conjured up. Nick, Ruth and many others, have asked in CLEAR english to provide the Court Case Number, thE county and STate the court trial was tried in and of course the Judge that presided over his case. He then posts to this same report, over a 10,000 line reply of CASES of other "victims" of walmart, then claims that HIS information is private. Last time I looked, Court case numbers are public information, since he doesn't post on this website with his real name. A poster to his thread, who is from the same state and a nearby town to Todd, even went so far as researched all the cases invovling Walmart in his area, and found NOTHING that supports Todd's claim. That NO one was arrested as according to the fairytale events that Todd reported.

Also, he says he's not Todd, many times throughout his own report.

and in this one, he speaks of himself in the third person (read his last reply again).

ONe has to wonder if he is a schizophrenic.

the insulters? Well, that's me, Nick, Ruth and others who have asked him for facts, of which he never provides, and hasn't provided. We are insulters, because we are looking for the truth to his allegations, although, he IS the one who was caught stealing from Walmart.

Todd,

I hate to take away from the original cause of the thread, but this is fairly interesting.

Which cases did you use as reference? Could you post the docket numbers (or any other reference number that would help me locate the documents that pertain to the case) and where each case was located? I'm not trying to second-guess anyone, I just like to see the information first-hand. Also, where there other sources you consulted aside from the court records such as advocacy websites or documents?

Again, I merely ask because I like to see things with my own eyes. You can imagine how long it took me to do research on any subject in school because I track down the sources my sources used. I drew the line at that, though. Any deeper and I found that it either got very hard to comprehend or very boring to read.

You mentioned that the insulters seem to take a break during the holiday season(s) and this was an indication that most were of school age. I disagree. Most people that are in school have home computers with Internet access, and wouldn't be limited by the holiday vacations. I would like to offer another theory:

Most people during the holidays spend time with their families, and less time on the computer. Some are busy with holiday shopping, others with cooking, and still others arranging the get-togethers that make the holiday season what it is.

I was also curious what method you used to come to the conclusion that all of the insulters were, in reality, the same person or from the same group. There are always traces of commonality in a given setting (I've noticed that several different people can adopt the same kinds of euphemisms after they have been exposed to them. The same could be true with spelling errors and grammatical structure).

Wouldn't it just be easier to locate the IP addresses and see if the messages are being sent from the same computer? You or I wouldn't have access to the information, but the Webmaster, if asked politely, might be able to backtrack and see if all of these messages are coming from the same source. There is always the possibility that the person would be spoofing his or her IP address, but anyone with enough computer knowledge to do that also has enough information to be more destructive.

Of course, it could be multiple people posting from the same general area, in which case it would be impossible to prove if it was more than one person or just a single individual acting alone.

I look forward to your reply, Todd.

Denny,

I noticed.

Would you be so kind as to keep the Latin to a minimum? I can only speak two languages fluently: English and Bad English (precious little of the first. Thank goodness for spellchecker).

Latin makes my brain ache (grin).

Joshua, see his answer to you? That he's watching "Todd's" pattern? but its signed by Todd? This is his modus operandi. weird huh?

Oh Todd,

What is your case number?
Who was the judge that presided over your case and trial?
What county was your trial in?

Hi Joshua,

Thanks for your question and proper manners in asking; therefore I will do my best to respond.

The first question was about how I came to the conclusion of the $6,500. Well, in my experience in working with global businesses, I have done a nice job coming up with estimated profits and hidden costs.

With this experience, I kept seeing a pattern with Todd's case and others that I was researching. So, I started playing with the numbers and came up with a formula. I posted on my thread on 29/Dec/2005. Here is what I posted:

"BUT after much research I have discovered the reason why Wal-Mart does these False Accusations... MONEY... In the end, (most people fall to this scam), Wal-Mart mostly gets about $6,500 per person... ($1000 (shoplifting charge) + ($200 Civil Letter Claim) + ($5300 Most likely from Civil Law Suit)"

Keep in mind this is an estimate, but most likely very close to the information that I have discovered. One thing is for sure; WalMart is making a nice profit off of these arrest claims, which is for sure.

===

Now, I will try to answer your second question, which is about my term "Insulters".

INSULTERS: (trouble-makers or cyber-bullies)

I posted a definition sometime back I forgot the date. Anyway, here it is:

"More research has been conducted into some of these "insulters" as I will now address them. It seems like some of them maybe college kids or in school. Because usually around the Holidays, whenever school is out at long periods, there is no postings from them. Plus, most of their postings are meaningless, and just use anger, insults, speaking of wrath, and so on.

Their goal, it seems, to flood the original post and not allow any creditable post to be noticed. The reader will conclude that whenever someone post an educated posting, these "insulters" flood around the educated posting, in hopes no one will see the educated posting.

Many common starting points of these "insulters" responses, will begin by stating that they were going to post a complaint about the company, but instead became offended by the original post, and therefore, instead insult the original posting. After reading over many threads, it became apparent that the same language and grammar structuring was similar to the others. Thus, allowing me to conclude it was the same person, or the same group of people.

These "insulters", in which I tend to believe, is only one person with many logon names, posing as multiple people, so in order to support their "insulting" responses.

The other goal of these "insulters" is to keep the "frenzy" going. This objective by the "insulters" is to confuse the original posting author and educated readers. Out of all of these (responsive) postings on this thread, only about 20% would be usable. The rest is out numbered by these useless "insulters" responses; that curse, use insulting remarks, fowl language, improper replies, uneducated levels of suggestions, et."


Hope this answers your questions.

PRAISE GOD! VICTORY!

Roger,

Have any of our suggestions helped you? I know that any thread with the dreaded W word in it seems to gain instant attention of anyone with an opinion (and rightly so. Wal-Mart is a hotbed of controversy and it seems that you either love them or hate them. With the exception of precious few, there seems to be no middle ground at all). Has the incident occurred again or have you decided to let your money do the talking and take your business to another retailer?

Todd,

I was curious when I read the following:

(You have solved the million dollar question. But keep in mind; I have discovered that Wal-Mart can get up to $6,500+ in profit for having you arrested. So, you see the reasoning here?)

Could you tell me where did you found this information? I ask for reference, because it seems that those figures would allow Wal-Mart to make more of a living arresting customers than actually selling product (at least on a per person basis).

Also, what are your criteria for labeling someone as an insulter? Again, I only ask for reference and offer a thank you in advance for your reply.

Matthew,

I have to agree with you: Providing a written report to the store manager would be a good way to document the whole process. I work for a hospital in Lansing, and we have a saying:

If it isn't documented, it didn't happen.

I've noticed that if you write it down, not only do you have proof that it happened, but you also have a better chance of remembering it when someone queries you about the incident / event. Of course, there is always the chance that someone will forge a document to make it appear that they did something that they did not, but there are people who will always try to get around anything.

Asset protection is a major problem for retailers, both large and small. If the business is too thorough then people think it's invasive. If they are too lax, then they loose money to shoplifters. It's an uphill battle and its near impossible to concoct a policy that pleases everyone.

If you owned a business, wouldn't you have SOME system in place to at least DETER shoplifters, and certainly stop them if possible? Thousands of people walk through the doors of an average wal-mart every day. It would simply be moronic to check every single person. You would have lines to get out the door that are ten times longer than the lines at the checkout. People buy hundreds of items at the time. To thoroughly check every item against a recepit is more trouble that its worth. Having set guidelines so that an occasional person is asked for a recepit (probably right around 1% of the shoppers if not less) is not bad business in my opinion. Again, if you owned a store, would you not have the right to put in place a reasonable system of theft deterrent?

"It is the cost of the civil lawsuit Wal-Mart files against you, once you get into their accused shoplifting game, and then they have you arrested, unless you fight them and win, they will get $6,500+ from you."

And the only way that YOU would NOT win is if you did in fact STEAL something. It's that simple. As the plaintif, the burden of proof lies on wal-mart. They have to PROVE that you stole something to prosecute you. They wouldn't get your alleged "$6,500" from you just because they filled out some paperwork.

You still haven't answered the questions put to you:

What is your case number?
Who was the judge that presided over your case?
What county and court was the trial set in?

Hi Roger,

You made a very good point, you stated: "Some people posting about this topic are ignorant enough to quickly come to a conclusion, point the finger, judge, and convict. completly missing the point".

(That is so true. As I have said, I call them "insulters" or "flooders", because they do nothing more than flood the posting with (junk)! No good advice to fix the problem.)

"Walmart's loss prevention policy should be fair for all customers. If merchandise cannot be bagged, they need to put a sticker on it".

(You have solved the million dollar question. But keep in mind; I have discovered that WalMart can get up to $6,500+ in profit for having you arrested. So, you see the reasoning here?)

"These so called door greeters can look down the isle and can easly see that you just left the check out area, and you paid for your sh*t. If they are wild about checking recipts, then they should check everyones! and stop selective profiling."

(But the point of the matter is, they want someone that meets the profile, so they can get that $6,500+ profit out of you. What is this extra profit? It is the cost of the civil lawsuit Wal-Mart files against you, once you get into their accused shoplifting game, and then they have you arrested, unless you fight them and win, they will get $6,500+ from you.)

"If they are that paranoid that someone is going to steal their sh*t, they should send "all" shoppers to a strip search area before leaving the store."

I agree with that one hundred percent! If you do it to one, then you should to it to all, fair is fair. Maybe not so near in the future, me maybe subject to that very same thing. Do they still do that at airports now? Remember the good old days before 9/11, when you could just run to your airplane, and all they had to do was check your carry ons.

Now, I see old ladies being strip-searched. Or what about those cases, where those people take young girls into back rooms and strip them with video cameras?

This world is going down, that is for sure. I cannot wait until Jesus returns; the wicked can have this evil world.

Anyway, I just thought my input might help. If not, oh well. Now watch the "insulters" buzz around now. Most likely they will flood this response with at least 5 postings before you ever get a chance to read it.

I work at Wal-Mart (and have for several years), but that doesn't mean I love the place. But there are only a few reasons you would be stopped on the way out the door to have your receipt checked. Let me rephrase that; there are only a few reasons a people greeter is TRAINED to stop you.

1. You have an item(s) that are not in a bag. The people greeter is supposed to make sure those items were paid for and not just stuck in a cart.

2. The electronic alarm goes off. This isn't audible in all stores. Some of them only have blinking lights. Cashiers don't always get the electronic tags deactivated, and they come in anything from cold medicine, to condoms, to flashlights, to batteries, to DVD's, microwaves, alcoholic beverages... About the only thing that doesn't have them is food. If the alarm goes off, it is the greeter's job to stop the customer.

3. They saw you coming from somewhere other than one of the front registers to check out. If they don't see you walk through a front register, they assume you have been in the store with your bags, and could have put other things in there with no one noticing.

Aside from that, there is really no reason to be stopped at the door. If you don't fall into any of the categories above, your best bet is to make a WRITTEN complaint and make sure it gets to the store manager. If there is a history of problems with a greeter, they then have documented proof that they aren't doing their job properly, and disciplinary action can be taken.

Denny,

You stated: "cuaght (MISSPELLED) lying and he also admitted to stealing" You just made yourself full of it. I never stated anything that I stole anything.

You just hate the fact I called you a "God Hater"! You are just one of many that go around these postings and "stir" things up. From my very first posting, you began with your "insults".

But even then, your hatred of me, because of my faith shows even here. I came here to support this man's posting and to show him that he has a swarm of "insulters".

So, really I do not care about your insults, I know the truth of the matter. You and the others that spill out all the locus of lies and insults, it does not hurt me one i-oda.

I see where many of you, insulters, are finally admitting you are connected with Wal-Mart in one-way or another. Hmmmmm...

The truth can bite, can't it!

Why turn it into a problem? Because some people just want something to whine about - that's pretty much it.

Like I said on another Wal-Mart thread - find some REAL injustice to post about.

That is the whole point.

the whole "thing" is when to make an issue of something you disagree with.

exactly how is Walmart harming you by asking for a receipt to show you that you purcahsed the items you have bought?

Seriously?

They are not harming you.

You are one of a few thousand customers they probably see in a day. They are not targetting you; just doing their job.

By anyone over reacting to being asked to show a receipt, you are making yourself embarassed. Just be cordial, show your receipt and be on your way.

Why turn it into a problem?

That is the whole point.

the whole "thing" is when to make an issue of something you disagree with.

exactly how is Walmart harming you by asking for a receipt to show you that you purcahsed the items you have bought?

Seriously?

They are not harming you.

You are one of a few thousand customers they probably see in a day. They are not targetting you; just doing their job.

By anyone over reacting to being asked to show a receipt, you are making yourself embarassed. Just be cordial, show your receipt and be on your way.

Why turn it into a problem?

That is the whole point.

the whole "thing" is when to make an issue of something you disagree with.

exactly how is Walmart harming you by asking for a receipt to show you that you purcahsed the items you have bought?

Seriously?

They are not harming you.

You are one of a few thousand customers they probably see in a day. They are not targetting you; just doing their job.

By anyone over reacting to being asked to show a receipt, you are making yourself embarassed. Just be cordial, show your receipt and be on your way.

Why turn it into a problem?

That is the whole point.

the whole "thing" is when to make an issue of something you disagree with.

exactly how is Walmart harming you by asking for a receipt to show you that you purcahsed the items you have bought?

Seriously?

They are not harming you.

You are one of a few thousand customers they probably see in a day. They are not targetting you; just doing their job.

By anyone over reacting to being asked to show a receipt, you are making yourself embarassed. Just be cordial, show your receipt and be on your way.

Why turn it into a problem?

Denny,

Excellent point. I almost started to make a case for hiding the tape when not in use, but I remembered something that someone told me a long time ago:

If they want to steal it, they'll figure out a way to do it.

Plus it would be difficult to trust an employee to keep an eye on the tape at all times while still trying to service customers. I've seen the workload in layaway and it does get pretty hectic back there.

R:

"I pay for my items, I get to the checkpoint and refuse to show a receipt. No arguing, just walk by. What can Wal-Mart do? If they apprehend me and I've paid for the items, what law have I violated?

I don't mean to steal questions addressed to other people, but let me offer a theory:

You would not be in violation of any law, and the person that stopped you should thank your for being cooperative and wish you a nice day with their apologies for keeping you from being on your way. Man that looks like a run-on sentence.

That's if (and only if) you were pleasant about it. If you were rude and / or obnoxious about it, I wouldn't be surprised if you got more than a curt thank you and a few weird looks from the people around you.

Using your theory, I could just bring some WallyWorld bags with me, fill them up, and walk out. Since the merchandise is in a WalMart bag, instead of a back-pack, I should be free to leave?

The fact of the matter is...if we didn't live in a world filled with thieves, nobody would need to check anything. I agree with you about the walk by them IF you haven't stolen anything. I do NOT know what the legal raminfications are, as they are different from one state to another. Some states allow merchants more leeway than others.


sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report. .

But as a courtesy to those who work there and those who also shop there, just show your receipt when asked and go on by.

Again, what is 10 seconds out of your life. What you state would turn at 10 seconds routine act into a five minute ordeal that you put on the worker and those around you. They are there to do their job; by you acting like a total a*s to them, you make their job harder to do; and of course affect their "outlook" for the rest of the eveninging thereby, maybe having them act even more "irate" or irritated with other customers, because you had to "show's who's the boss".

YOu know what I think of those who "fight" with workers who are at the door? Morons.

You know what I think of those who just dont bother to make a mountain out of a molehill? People who are smart and know that its not worth putting up a fight for soemthing so dumb in the first place.

Oh and the diffecen between a backpack and a bag that is used to carry out your purchase? One is personal belonging the oTHER is not.

What is the difference between a backpack and a store bag that contains paid for merchandise?
Should I just refuse a bag and put the goods in my backpack?

And Denny please answer this question:

I pay for my items, I get to the checkpoint and refuse to show a receipt. No arguing, just walk by. What can Wal-Mart do? If they apprehend me and I've paid for the items, what law have I violated?

Saying that its illegal for a Walmart employee to check the contents of your purchases in a Walmart bag is purely and uninformed opinion. If you stated that they are not allowed to check personal purses or your backpack/bag then you'd have some merit, but yOU dont make that distinction.


Joshua,

Using tape has not stopped fraud from happening.
A store did that here for a while, but learned quickly that all it took was to someone steal a role of heir "store" tape that they do use to mark bulky items and then tape things they didnt' pay for, they eliminated it altogether and put workers at the doors to greet people as they came in, and also check bulky item purchases as they left.

I rather have someone check my purchases, to catch items i may have missed than to have someone walk out with something they didn't pay for.

William, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Random bag searches are not legal. Once you've paid for the item, it's nobody's business. Unless you have evidence that the individual stole the item, you can't check the bag unless there is consent. So if I refuse your search and I just leave, what are you going to do? If you touch me, it's assault. If you call the cops, it's false arrest and illegal detainment.

So if it's not illegal, what law supports you to check the receipt of paid goods, and what's the penalty for the offender.

What do you do if someone refuses to show a receipt and the goods are paid for? Under what law are they prosecuted for not showing the receipt. And don't give me the lame answer probable cause. It doesn't apply if the goods are paid for.

Roger:

Placing a sticker on merchandise would is a good idea. I know the layaway department has a process similar that involves taping a receipt-like piece of paper with the layaway number in bold letters and numbers across the side.

I would suggest bringing this up with the Wal-Mart store where you were profiled'. If this is truly a racial issue (or an issue that meets some other discriminatory condition) then something needs to be done. If Wal-Mart stonewalls or the issue isn't resolved to your satisfaction after presenting your complaint in a mature and calm manner, I would suggest contacting a local branch of the

This is where my brain gets fried. I can never remember which acronym represents which group of people

And see what they might be able to do to help you.

I don't know if the Me Personally line was directed at well me, but I thought that's what this place was about. Everyone got their opinion and we were supposed to share information / experiences both good and bad about businesses.

On the post labeled Wal-Mart's fair profiling & strip search policy dated 3/26/06 8:35 AM you said:

If they are that paranoid that someone is going to steal their sh*t, they should send "all" shoppers to a strip search area before leaving the store. I'm waiting for the next salvo of intelligent comments.

Extreme solutions are never solutions at all. Whomever they were directed to either ignores them, or they infuriate them and the whole thing degenerates into name-calling and mud slinging. Also, an attack against other people's intelligence is a terrible way to carry on a discussion. It's always hostile and nothing is accomplished except for more of the same.

Again, I would recommend going to the manager of the Wal-Mart store and calmly but firmly explain your problem. Be sure to cite examples of why you think this behavior is inappropriate / unnecessary and offer a solution. It's very easy to go this sucks, fix it and not offer any ideas as to how it should be fixed. If you keep your cool and are mature about it, people will listen.

Don't let them goad you into a shouting match. This will make you look bad.

You should, however, be willing to accept the fact that they might say no or refuse to listen to you. If that happens, I would suggest thanking them for their time and leaving without making a scene. Then I would contact a local agency that deals with this sort of thing and explain the situation to them (again in a calm and rational manner, including the now failed attempt at your part for resolution).

If this doesn't get the job done then I wouldn't give them your business any more and encourage others to do the same, once again in a rational manner. It's easy to fly off the handle at any given time, but it makes you look immature and irresponsible. It also scores points against anyone who you may come into contact with later about the same issue. I've shot myself in the foot more than one time when I let my mouth get ahead of me. I've consistently experienced better results when I come prepared and state my case / objections in a mature and friendly manner.

Steve, I would suggest the same strategy for your suggestion regarding the placement of merchandise past the register lanes. It's a good idea and it would cut down on theft. Oh there would still be people that hide things under their carts, in their pockets, or in containers that the cashier might miss, but at least they would be starting to cover their bases.

Hello. I am a former loss prevention employee of walmart and I have to say that it is store policy to hire greeters whose job it is to randomly check bags going out. Walmart hires these individuals to perform these RANDOM CHECKS, not profiling checks. Please stop crying profiling because I have had my bags checked several times as I am walking out with my son. I am caucasion and was dressed in a suit and tie walking out with my 3 year old son when I was stopped. Did I cry profiling? No, because I know that these people are just doing there job.

Get over yourself and come to terms that in todays society we have to be aware of theives. And do you have any idea how much time and effort it would cost to check every single persons receipt. Walmart has had these greeters for as long as I can remember. And how can company policy of RANDOM BAG CHECKS get confused with profiling? It just baffles me. RANDOM BAG CHECKS ARE NOT ILLEGAL AND ARE A VERY GOOD SOLUTION TO STOPING WOULD BE THEIVES. And in my experience it is the criminals who complain. I have a suggestion for you if you don't like this type of practice, don't ever go to another retail store again because it is perfectly within their rights to search your bags as you are walking out. It is as simple as that.

Okay, I guess I had better tell you striaght off that ACCORDING TO TODD, lake Oswego and I do not exist, R. In portland You know Lake Oswego I am sure and you know it is an affluent community, Todd accused me of not existing because I disagreed with his story. I have been labeled a WAL MART LOVER/employee/ athiest/ god hater,and my personal favorites,idoit/satanist etc.

I have shopped wal mart too and yes i have ben asked for my receipt by some retired trying to make it on thier social security checks a month and cannot afford food, so please don't pick on those poor old people, they are just trying to feed themselves, in some cases some do not have family to look after them, and noone else will hire them, so I give to wal mart for hiring them. Thankyou R. for recognizing Todd is a fraud, if you read the postings, I defended him at first and even pracitcally begged him for proof, recently I bought a carpet shampooer in Walmart and since it wouldn't fit in the bag I was checked at the door. It didn't bother me, I paid for it and had proof, and the poster who spoke about the T.V. lady has a valid point, she WAS STEALING, It was on our local news that alot of the kids do that, find a receipt in the parking lot or garbage can etc, and then use it to go back in the store grab the item and get the money back, thus, causing prices for honest people to pay higher prices due to the theft. profiling is used to find serial killers, terrorists, and yes shoplifters. that is what society has become, used to be you could take a man at his word like I did Todd, then find out you were suckered. Ionly mentioned where I live and that it was afluent, becuase Todd said I did not exIst and made fun of Dennys wages a year, not all wal mart shoppers are poor, and when I go shopping, I am dressed nice and so is my child and I too, get stopped.

These greeters are just people trying to put food on the table, they are not trying to 'hurt" anyone on purpose, Before my dad died he used to say the first impression you make on someone is going to define you and you can't take back that first impression, what iam saying is baggy pants, huge tote bags etc, would make me as a greeter stop someone for their receipt.They probbaly have to stop some people so as to be doing thier job, costco checks everyone on the way out and people still shop there knowing that. I am not saying what happened to you is right or wrong I am just looking at it in a different way.To some people I can think it was humiliating I have actually set alarms off, with merchandise I paid for, and i will be the first one to tell you i was so emabarrassed that I turned beet red and had done nothing wrong, so I can understand the huniliation of it.

Ok so I feel this is my time to chime in. I am an ex-employee of WalMart. I worked there two years ago while I was going to college. For those of you who WILL attack me for working there and call me stupid, I will explain it to you. I had to make a decision: take out thousands of dollars in loans and bury myself in debt, or work. WalMart hired, paid well (in my case $10/hr to cashier with only 6months experience and where I was from you could raise a family off of $10/hr...low cost of living), and had flexible hours. So I went to work for them. Loved the job, loved the people, hated the customers (I am NOT a big fan of being called an idiot simply because I do not remember every price of every item in the store, or because I can do nothing about the 15 people in line ahead of them other than suggest they go to another line that has only two people ahead of them). But here is the relevant part:

Door greeters are not idiots. Please have some compassion when talking about them. Most of them are elderly who were pushed out of other jobs, forced to retire and lost their benefits. If they did not work at WalMart, they would be on public assistance. They are doing us all a favor by working and not sitting on their butts collecting off our taxes. Second, they are doing what they are told to do. For those who suggest they watch the cas registers. I dont know about your WalMart, but MY WalMart had 36 lanes, and our doors were on the far side. I stepped in as a door greeter once, no way could I have seen lanes 15-36. Maybe the first few lanes, but so many people go through them I would not remember customers who came in daily.

They check reciepts for one reason and one reason only: to stop shoplifters. If an item is not bagged, ask for a bag: we have big bags that are usually used for comforter sets ect. If all your items are bagged and you are not acting suspiciously you will probably not be checked. If you are checked, why not just flash your reciept (keep it handy). The poster before me was correct, they do not look in your bags. The only time the bags are dealt with is when the alarm goes off then they "wand" the bags so that the security tag can be removed (mind you they are trained to assume you are innocent and did not just stuff it in the bag and run off). Which, yes, it is the cashier's fault when the tags are left on. But what most of you do not know is the cashier's are reprimanded for that...but not if you refuse to show your recipet. They take the transaction number from your reciept and that identifies the cashier.

The point is, they are not asking to search your bags, they are asking to see your reciept. And that is not illegal. If it was, all the other businesses that are starting to do it, wouldn't be doing it. Oh and I am sure in the years that WalMart has done this, someone somewhere has tried to sue...and lost.

I quit my job because I transfered colleges and there is no WalMart where I live now, but I am on my way to Grad School (still no loans, did I mention WalMart gave me scholarship? Thats right..big bad WalMart helping to put kids through college...) and there is a WalMart in that town. I will be applying my first day there. It is a good "in between" job.

WalMart needs to:

1). Hire some door greeters that are still alive, and actually can see whats going on and use common sense.

2). Have designated in and out isles that are divided, and NOT put ANY merchandise past the checkout. Then there is no confusion by these idiots. If you went through the register lane, you paid for it.

Very simple solutions here.

Some people posting about this topic are ignorant enough to quickly come to a conclusion, point the finger, judge, and convict. completly missing the point. Walmart's loss prevention policy should be fair for all customers. If merchandise cannot be bagged, they need to put a sticker on it. These so called door greeters can look down the isle and can easly see that you just left the check out area, and you paid for your sh*t. If they are wild about checking recipts, then they should check everyones! and stop selective profiling.

In this world there are plain dressed honest people, and there are thieves wearing suit and ties. Thieves come from all walks of life with many differant faces. Some people have a good lagit reason for posting on this website, and just like the thieves, there are the crazy people that come out of the woodwork to quickly accuse you of a crime. "Me personally" I have no time for this stupid bullsh*t. As for Walmart. If they are that paranoid that someone is going to steal their sh*t, they should send "all" shoppers to a strip search area before leaving the store. I'm waiting for the next salvo of intelligent comments.

I worked for Wal-Mart for a total of six (count 'em: six) months in the Lawn & Garden department. Not the most glamorous job in the world (also not the worst), but I needed money to pay bills while I searched for something better. Thankfully it only took those six months to find what I was looking for.

Sarah, on a comment earlier today (March 25th, 2006), said: "What was explained to me, and how I ALWAYS did it, is that if the items are NOT in a bag we are supposed to check the receipt."

Having worked at the store, I offer an example as to why this is policy:

A lady walked in to the store, and placed a television into her cart. She then attempted to walk out the door with the merchandise through the Lawn & Garden exit, flashing her receipt as she left. The greeter, who was one of those people who was completely and utterly happy with their place in life to the point that it was slightly disturbing (at least to me), stopped her and asked to take a closer look at her receipt. As it turns out, it was a receipt from another store for the same item, dated about a week and a half previous to that day.

It was very sneaky, and honestly, one of the more original schemes I've seen. Of course, I only worked there for half a year and only had one other retail job before Wal-Mart (and the customer base was completely different), so I haven't seen everything.

Do I agree with the bag checking? Not really. Do I care enough to object if they ask me? Again: Not really. That's what they get paid to do, so I try not to give them a hard time. It's bad enough that everyone thinks Wal-Mart is an unfeeling, demonic corporation that is out to destroy small-business America one mom-and-pop-shop at a time. The people that work the door are just trying to make a living, same as everyone else.

I say just keep the receipt out and show it to them if they ask. It's voluntary, and it gets you out of the store faster than arguing with the door-person, Loss Prevention, the Manager, and the Police (God forbid it comes to that).

I used to work at wal-mart in FL as a cashier. Every now and then I would be asked to fill in as a door greeter. What was explained to me, and how I ALWAYS did it, is that if the items are NOT in a bag we are supposed to check the receipt. Under no circumstances were we allowed to look inside the bags, or search a person. We had a little hand scanner that we could run over the bag if the alarm went off. Nine times out of ten when we checked it, there was a "gator" tag still on the clothes or some security tag on a cd. I checked all sorts of bags and I was always polite about it. Some people are nice about it and others aren't. I am not sure how things are done at other wal-marts, but that is how it was done at mine.

Roger,

Do not feel so bad. Recently I was shopping at the Union City CA Walmart and went through the same as you did. As I was in line waiting to pay for my items. I was watching the socalled Door Greeters/Security Guards. They where not stopping anyone and asking for receipts. After I paid for my items and proceeded to the exit doors.The people that where in front of me were not asked for their receipt either. When It came my turn to exit the store I was stopped and asked for mine. I to feel that it was Profiling.What's funny about this whole thing is that the Door Greeters/Security Guards were African American.

Roger,

Do not feel so bad. Recently I was shopping at the Union City CA Walmart and went through the same as you did. As I was in line waiting to pay for my items. I was watching the socalled Door Greeters/Security Guards. They where not stopping anyone and asking for receipts. After I paid for my items and proceeded to the exit doors.The people that where in front of me were not asked for their receipt either. When It came my turn to exit the store I was stopped and asked for mine. I to feel that it was Profiling.What's funny about this whole thing is that the Door Greeters/Security Guards were African American.

Roger,

Do not feel so bad. Recently I was shopping at the Union City CA Walmart and went through the same as you did. As I was in line waiting to pay for my items. I was watching the socalled Door Greeters/Security Guards. They where not stopping anyone and asking for receipts. After I paid for my items and proceeded to the exit doors.The people that where in front of me were not asked for their receipt either. When It came my turn to exit the store I was stopped and asked for mine. I to feel that it was Profiling.What's funny about this whole thing is that the Door Greeters/Security Guards were African American.

Roger,

Do not feel so bad. Recently I was shopping at the Union City CA Walmart and went through the same as you did. As I was in line waiting to pay for my items. I was watching the socalled Door Greeters/Security Guards. They where not stopping anyone and asking for receipts. After I paid for my items and proceeded to the exit doors.The people that where in front of me were not asked for their receipt either. When It came my turn to exit the store I was stopped and asked for mine. I to feel that it was Profiling.What's funny about this whole thing is that the Door Greeters/Security Guards were African American.

Here's a tip for you those who had showing their receipts while exiting Wal-Mart: Shop at Albertsons and Safeway grocery stores instead. Sign up for those "supermarket swipe-and-save" cards in a feeble attempt to match Wal-Mart's prices.

Now instead of your "rights" being violated, your "privacy" can be violated. Do a yahoo search on "big brother grocery cart" and you'll see what I'm talking about. They track your purchases, and keep your info on a database. That in comparison pales what Wal-Mart does.

One guy in particular was sueing his doctor and the hospital because he wasn't getting better after a surgery. The lawyers for the hospital subponea'd this guy's grocery card and found that he was buying junk food and vodka. (He ended up losing his case when that information surfaced)

So I guess the question is: To save money would you rather:

1. Let some old lady check your receipt for 20 seconds

2. Let the store collect the information ANYWAY on a hard-drive without telling you, and thus allowing government or citizens check the third-party computer database any time they want from a grocery store? It takes a mere subponea.

I guess that's up to you. I happen to shop at Wal-Mart because of the prices, no hassles, and privacy. If all they ask is for a receipt (like many OTHER stores do), then I give it to them and I'm on my way.

Is it your right not to? Lawfully, I guess so. But it sure shows what you're made of, if common courtesy is trumped by "your rights".

The only place I've seen walmarts checking bags is when they are attached to Malls.
They have signs, written in 5 languages that read something like: We reserve the right to inspect all bags entering this store. They are lockers located in the mall for your convience.

As far as profiling, my area is so diverse, evrybody would be profiled.

My only instance with wallyworld came when I thought she paid for a bottle of Fabreeze and she thought I did.

We exited the store, realized the goof and went back in to pay for it.

They were stunned. The service counter person truly looked baffled by this. I showed her the reciept, that we'd only paid for one and told her that the other one was in the cart. She called a manager over, explained this to him and his response was wild.

He said: "Well, charge them for it and give them ten on this." handing the clerk a gift card.
He smiled and said: "thanks for being honest and thanks for shopping WalMart."

sheila, You are in left field. Walmart does not sell bombs, or make a very good profitable hangout for hijackers. Carjacking in the parking lot is a possiblity, but in Texas I carry a cure for that problem. They might take me out , but some are going with me.

Todd:
My story is about a man, named Todd, which was shopping with his family and was attacked and falsely arrested by Wal-Mart. He had his receipt and SHOWED it to the LP person, and they still had him arrested.

Ditto to what was said above by those other guys. The only person that agreed with "Todd" in that thread had a conspiracy that Wal-Mart was intentionally not bagging her sugar at the checkout counter and was secretly putting it back on the shelf..

... which would have actually recouped the losses your sandwich thievery caused, Todd. Todd was in jail, and the only consistency in his story AT ALL is that a Police Officer's name was legit - which was probably the arresting officer.

Go away, Todd. You'll hurt the credibility of an actual VICTIM with your support and verbal splattering.

Yes, Todd has no credibility, as Im sure you have seen or read his ripoffreport filed here.

He was not humiliated in any sense of the word. Everyone goes throug the same doors as they leave the store, so everyone is equally "embarassed" when they have to show their receipt which only takes a couple of seconds.

Whoopdeedoo.

In his own mind, because he thinks the world is out to get him paranoia, it could be viewed as being 'targeted' but when I pass by 10 people showing their recepits at the door, then by all means, feel embarassed, YOU are in good company.

I am ignoring Todd as he has no credibility. However, I will stand pat on my defense of Roger.

The last time I was leaving Sam's Club, the checker at the door found that a new cashier had charged me twice for the same item, and had over-charged me for an item that had the wrong sticker on it. Total was around eighty-nine dollars. I buy in bulk so I hadn't noticed, but as I was obviously "profiled" and "humiliated" I didn't have to return to the store a second time. Good thing they profile us Irish guys and check our receipts.

I have shopped at WalMart for several years in NC and other states when travelling. I never have a problem. I keep my receipt handy and walk over to the greeter (without being asked) and show the receipt. If this is what it takes to stop shoplifters then I am all for it.

To the person who said they live in the US and not China and should not be subject to searches I have this to say - you do not want searches then you better learn to live with bombs, hijackings, etc. As for profiling - to help keep our country safe I am all for it.

I RARELY shop at Wal-Mart, but the few times I did, my lilly white butt, dressed in J. Crew, was stopped and asked to show a receipt. Profiling? I don't think so. It's company policy, no doubt, usually carried out by a $6 per hour retiree who is a little drunk with power. Get over it. If you don't like it, shop somewhere else...that's the beauty of a free market economy. If you absolutely have to shop at Wal-Mart, but want to avoid that receipt checking thing...shop their website.

I find it interesting that you, Roger, are talking about your rights, however, doesn't Wal-Mart have a right to look out for themselves?

You weren't obligated to stop for the greeter, but you probably felt you had no choice and for that I find fault in Wal-Mart for not making it clear that it is voluntary or having a posting that says you may be subject to search and are consenting to it by entering the store.

And, no, I'm not an employee and I rarely shop there. However I do go to BJ's & CostCo and they have the same policy and they don't stop everyone that is exiting.

This is a tempest in a teacup. Take a deep breath, Roger, and move on. There are far more injustices in the world to shake your fist at.

I respect that you are a veteren and you served our country well, we're all thankful for that.

Warm Regards,

Private property rights. You seem to forget that you admitted to stealing from Walmart, got caught and are now calling those that dont believe you "God haters", "heathens" and every colorful expression in the book, which of course is against everything that a devout Christian should be doing.

R and Roger, again, I warn you, do not even read into anything that Todd posts; his own report here at ripoff, is a complete fabrication, as supported by other posters, who live in the same state and city as he.

For in his report, he was cuaght lying and he also admitted to stealing. Oh and dont get us started in the his ever so "preaching" attitude that he says hes a "devout christian" when he has shown to be liar.

We can disagree on how walmart searches bags on the way out, but if you believe anything that 'Todd' posts, I warn you , be ready to be rediculed for doing so.

Hello "R and Roger":

I have a report that was posted back in April of 2005, titled, "Rip-off Report: Wal-Mart Supercenter Store #1164 Shoplifting: Falsely Accused of Eating Food And Not Paying! Columbia South Carolina".

You have the SAME "insulters" and "Wal-Mart Lovers", that have been attacking my posting. It's like those Southern Mosquitoes buzzing around sucking everybody's blood (freedom)!

My story is about a man, named Todd, which was shopping with his family and was attacked and falsely arrested by Wal-Mart. He had his receipt and SHOWED it to the LP person, and they still had him arrested.

These, "Wal-Mart Lovers" seem to think we live in a Country that only has laws for them and the corporations, and the people that fought for our rights to live freely, was in vain. I SHOUT back at them and LAUGH in their faces! I to had the opportunity to see other countries, and I agree, this is the GREATEST Country on EARTH! God has Blessed it so much so, that we have these "low-lives" able to speak against it openly without torturing them like other countries do.

I remember the riots in China when government came in and shot the college children. I was in Indonesia, when soldiers came in and beat up women and children when they were begging for food and expressing wrongdoing and unfairness between the rich and poor.

Why do I speak these things, BECAUSE, it proves that in this Country, we are allowed the FREEDOMS because of people like you that have put your lives on the line for these FREEDOMS! Praise God for people like you that had the desire to go out and fight. UNLIKE these "low-lives" that hide behind their computers, and aggressively attack people and want to take away their freedoms. You are much better than them, and I am very happy to know you have not only fought for my freedom, but you are now fighting for righteousness by speaking out of the violations that Wal-Mart is doing! Amen!

These "low-lives" talk like, once a customer walks into a Wal-Mart, those customers have no freedoms, and they are branded as a criminal, GUILTY!

Any Oh How, May God Bless You, and thanks for speaking out. It's people like you that is coming out and expressing your voice that will allow this Country to remember its FREEDOMS and prevent the "low-lives" from taking those freedoms AWAY!

PS. Feel free to join in on my long thread at my RipOffPosting, I would be very honored to invite you there and see what your take is on the "low lives" chattering there.

Amen!

Yes, as long as the inspection is voluntary. No, if the bag check is involuntary or coerced. This is a rather fine legal distinction that is subject to misunderstanding and abuse. Basically, nothing in the law gives the merchant the right to detain a customer for the purpose of searching a shopping bag unless there is a reasonable suspicion of retail theft.

A customer can refuse to have their bag checked and simply walk out the door past the bag checker. Hopefully the bag checker has been trained to know that they cannot force anyone to submit to a bag search without cause. This is important because the expectation of the bag checker is that all bag contents have been purchased. The worst thing that could happen is that an aggressive bag checker would forcibly detain or threaten a customer who refused to comply with the voluntary search

This is from an individual who is an expert in loss prevention named Chris McGoey.

So Denny next time you go to the market, why don't you just voluntarily drop trou at the exit and let them shove a probe up your a*s to make sure you haven't been shoplifting bananas again.

No, I have never shopped at the xxx in Wilsonville. I buy all of my electronics online.

I shop for groceries at the xxxin Beaverton approximately twice a week and the xxx in Hillsboro about twice a month. Never been asked for a receipt, ever.

In addition, I go to xxx to buy items that Wal-Mart sells. Never been asked for a receipt. I can also state that I've never been in a Wal-Mart in OR. And never will. Fortunately, there isn't as many of them here as compared to the south.

Why should someone have to present a receipt to show that they paid for something in the absence of evidence to the contrary? I have never been asked for a receipt in my life, and would not shop at an establishment that implemented such facist policies.

My advice to this individual is to stay out of Wal-Mart, as anyone should. Wal-Mart contributes absolutely nothing to the community or to society. It's the most miserable place on earth.

Denny: Suppose I had several items that I paid for and the doorman asks me for the receipt and I refuse? What can he do? The answer is nothing.

You can only be detained for probable cause not refusing to show a receipt.

sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

There Must be alot of those "SPECIAL" Walmart employees judging me. I live in the USA not the republic of China or any other foreign country. I served my country coming home in 1976. You dumb young dipsh*ts. Your mom was probably wiping the snot off your nose when I was in the military defending your asses! Once I purchase anything it belongs to me and is not subject to search unless I agree to it. Yes, Peter Pan you are close. I used to be a head banger,not a gang banger. Sherri, with respect, don't be confused. This is the USA, not Israel! As for Robert? ("YOU ARE SPECIAL" Understand?) Denny? I'm glad your on the Island. At least you are isolated. Doug, there's nothing wrong with profiling ,if your from a third world country. People, can you believe it? Sean has never whined in his life. As for "R" he shows all of us there is some intelligent life on earth.

Some people just don't get it. If Walmart is going to have a policy, it should be equal for all customers. Do they profile at the airport? or court house? answer is: Hell No. They search everyone! Walmart may as well treat ALL customers as a thief, and not just some of them. Better yet post large signs at the registers stating, "ALL CUSTOMERS WILL BE STRIP SEARCHED AT THE DOOR!" Then there will be no misunderstanding. Next time I think I will take my purchased goods, and run for the parking lot, and see if they will chase me down, and put their hands on me. Intresting huh? Before I end this. WE ALL KNOW THAT SEAN NEVER WHINED ABOUT ANYTHING IN HIS LIFE. RIGHT?

I shop at Wal-Mart. Why? Because its cheap and I can get everything I need in one place and don't have to go to a number of stores. They've checked my receipt before and I've never had a problem with it. Why not? Because its MY choice to shop there and if I'm going to shop there then I'm going to go along with their store policies. Do I HAVE to by law allow them to check it? No. But why should I care, I didn't steal anything (not to say that the original poster did). I frankly have never been bothered by it but if it did bother me so then I would just move on to another store.

After being in Mexico where I couldn't even take my purse in the store without them searching it on the way in AND on the way out I'm not going to complain about someone checking my receipt. I could have it a lot worse.

I am curious to hear why you feel you are a victim of "profiling"? Do you have the appearance of a gang-banger, the local thug, or a wanted felon? Obviously you must not present and/or behave yourself very well in public if you feel that you get stopped by store security because of "profiling."

I find it funny how honest consumers have no problem whatsoever showing their receipt at the door. It's those who have something to hide who carry on, pretent to not be able to find their receipt, and cry racism and "profiling" to try to cover their illegal ways. Not to say that you are one of those dishonest persons, of course. But if you shop at a store every single day for three years, you should be very well aware that there are people at the door who check receipts, and so you would know to either keep your receipt in your hand until you leave OR take your business elsewhere if you do not agree with the policy.

I have no problem with someone checking my receipt, and I don't even shop at Wal-Mart. I DO shop at Home Depot and Costco, and they routinely check receipts. I would rather have a minute or two of inconvenience than to pay higher prices due to the people thinking that they are entitled to the old "five finger discount."

Get over it. If you were in Israel, they would be stopping to check your bags BEFORE going in the store. Guess that those nasty terrorists and suicide bombers' rights are being violated as well.

That is why "profiles" were created.

If this country would openly "profile", 9/11 would never have happened.

If you actually were "profiled," so what? If it cuts down on shoplifting who in the world would object? A shoplifter possibly.

Get a grip, Roger. Shoplifting costs all of us honest consumers a pretty penny now. How much do you think businesses such as Walmart would loose with NO loss prevention measures?

If cameras, receipt checkers, floor walkers or "profiling" is what it takes to cut down on theft then so be it.

R,

Being that you live in Portland, I'm curious if you ever shopped at Fry's in Wilsonville?

They check your receipt too. So, now this means Wal-mart isn't the only store to check receipts. Your argument is invalid now, good day.

And Roger,

Suck it up and quit whining. 3 minutes IS several minutes. And I'm sure nobody even noticed you.

Show you receipt. Keep it handy. I dont put away my receipt until IM out the door.

And completely opposite of R's posting, almost every business now does this. Costco, Sams club, Target, Kmart.

Why?

So they know that YOU got everything you paid for.

and

To catch those who didn't pay for the item they are walking out with.

If you had a lot of packages, just simply make your receipt available.

Why do you have to dig through several packages to get your receipt. It doesn't go into my pruse or wallet until iM out the door.

the only time im stopped is if im carrying a lot of bags or a bulky item. Otherwise, I just walkout

what is 4 seconds of your time, if you have your recepit ready to show?

Dont like it, then start shopping from home or ordering take out. Many busienss are doing this to protect them and their customers.

You don't have to show them a receipt. What can they do? Where does this crap end? What's the difference between checking your receipt and a strip search with a body cavity probe? In my mind there is none. Your receipt is your own private property, not Wal-Marts. Unless they have substantive evidence that you committed a crime, there's no reason to check a receipt.

Wal-Mart is about the only business that engages in this practice. The reason: Wal-Mart's customers are low-income, poorly educated individuals who are brainwashed to believe that this is SOP in the retail industry and it keeps prices low. It's not, 80% of retail theft is committed by their own low paid employees.

I have never in my entire life been asked for a receipt. Even when the alarms have gone off.

The best thing you can do is stay out of that s**t hole and go back to your local market. It'll be better for everyone.