Warren International IncWarren International Inc, Green Light Marketing, Marketing Fx Inc Are Part Of DS MAX & Smart Circle Keep Changing business name because of Shady business practices. Chicago, Oakbrook, Lombard, Orland Park Chicago Illinois

Wouldn't it be funny if George had his JD and practiced law for 10 years, in comparison to Socal who sounds like he's been out of law school for 6 months.

Just a thought.

George,
You are way off base on your legal analysis. I worked for Cydcor for about 2 months while waiting for my California bar results before I became an attorney. Your legal analysis is just basically wrong.

First, truth is an absolute defense to any defamation defense. Most of the claims can be backed up by personal experience. They are very tough to refute. Truth will always trump any defamation suit.

Also, most of this is just opinion about Cydcor. I'm sure many employees had a bad experience working at McDonald's or Starbucks. They have every right to express an opinion about the business. It's true slander per se are statements meant to damage a business. This just means a person does not have to prove the statements are defamatory. It does not mean the business will win.

It is clear many of the experiences are true at Cydcor. There may be some exagerrations but most of the opinions are backed up. You can disagree with that. But coming up with some defamation legalese is basically ridiculous. Focus on selling door-to-door. That is what you are best at.

Leave the legal analysis to the big dogs.

George,
You are way off base on your legal analysis. I worked for Cydcor for about 2 months while waiting for my California bar results before I became an attorney. Your legal analysis is just basically wrong.

First, truth is an absolute defense to any defamation defense. Most of the claims can be backed up by personal experience. They are very tough to refute. Truth will always trump any defamation suit.

Also, most of this is just opinion about Cydcor. I'm sure many employees had a bad experience working at McDonald's or Starbucks. They have every right to express an opinion about the business. It's true slander per se are statements meant to damage a business. This just means a person does not have to prove the statements are defamatory. It does not mean the business will win.

It is clear many of the experiences are true at Cydcor. There may be some exagerrations but most of the opinions are backed up. You can disagree with that. But coming up with some defamation legalese is basically ridiculous. Focus on selling door-to-door. That is what you are best at.

Leave the legal analysis to the big dogs.

George,
You are way off base on your legal analysis. I worked for Cydcor for about 2 months while waiting for my California bar results before I became an attorney. Your legal analysis is just basically wrong.

First, truth is an absolute defense to any defamation defense. Most of the claims can be backed up by personal experience. They are very tough to refute. Truth will always trump any defamation suit.

Also, most of this is just opinion about Cydcor. I'm sure many employees had a bad experience working at McDonald's or Starbucks. They have every right to express an opinion about the business. It's true slander per se are statements meant to damage a business. This just means a person does not have to prove the statements are defamatory. It does not mean the business will win.

It is clear many of the experiences are true at Cydcor. There may be some exagerrations but most of the opinions are backed up. You can disagree with that. But coming up with some defamation legalese is basically ridiculous. Focus on selling door-to-door. That is what you are best at.

Leave the legal analysis to the big dogs.

Very Interesting technique, however it's not really how things work.
First off I would like to commend you on a very valiant attempt with a well thought out argument that most Cydcor supporters usually avoid, however there are many flaws in your argument when analyzed.

To start you're defamation argument cannot last, mainly because no Cydcor affiliated office will fight back based on the factual information provided. Many offices go through the very same interview process each and every day by giving applicants false hope of what they are applying for.

It starts with the Ads, they almost always fudge information in these ads to push more people to apply. They will not mention door to door in these ads and even more commonly will list a salary amount that is false. Monster, Careerbuilder, and Hotjobs have caught on to this and have given Cydcor rules on what content is allowed in their affiliates ads. However, many Cydcor offices use other recruiting techniques, i.e Craig's list, jobster, newspapers, employment guides, and of course the resume banks you can purchase from most recruiting websites. With these other avenues there aren't any rules these offices need to follow.

Second the administrator is taught to avoid mentioning the words commission, door to door, and in some cases even the company name. Since they do know there could be a direct link to Cydcor or an affiliated office that might have a bad reputation, they try to avoid making that link right off the bat.

Now the administrator has done her job and the applicant has reached the office for an interview. The admin is then taught to keep conversation with the interview as to avoid any questions that may pertain to the job. The last think an admin wants to hear is, 'So what do you guys do here?' She is not allowed to spill the beans to the applicant and thus is taught to say that they will cover that in the interview.

The admin has once again done her job and the manager now gets to sit with the interview. The manager will then bring the interview into the office and begin barraging them with meaningless questions. For the most part these managers aren't even paying attention, all they are wondering is if this person would ever work here. They will try to avoid giving the interview any chance to ask questions and are taught for their first day as an asst. manager to refer all questions of compensation til the 2nd interview. They are also taught to avoid using terms like door to door and business to business and instead will keep it bland by saying outsourced marketing firms that work with big name companies. Each office only works with one company, therefore they are flat out lying to the individual by mentioning any other company besides the one they are currently working with. At that point they tell the interview they are only inviting a few candidates back for a second round interview and if they are selected they will receive a call later in the evening.

To elaborate a little more for you on this last point, you stated that they have an extensive interview process to avoid hiring someone that is not a fit. Actually, as far as the first round interviews go they are just looking to fill 2nd round interview slots in for their leaders. They will invite candidates back that they know are not a fit in order to keep their leader motivated, the last thing they want is a leader who thinks they are just doing sales.

Now the interview has left the office and is given a grade by the manager. The interview sheet goes in a pile until later that evening. Depending on the size of the office they will invite between 4 and approx 15 people back for a second interview. They invite more than they can handle purposely because they don't expect them all to show up. The admin has also been taught to sound extremely excited to the person on the phone that they are one of the lucky people to have been invited back, tell them to wear comfortable shoes because of course they don't know where they are going, and once again refer all questions to the second interview.

The candidate has decided that they will come back for the second interview without knowing what to expect they get introduced to a rep and then jump in the car without knowledge of where they are going. That is not even the interesting part, it is how the reps are taught to conduct these interviews. 1)Keep the interview on their toes so that they take the interview serious. 2) Refer all questions about compensation til lunchtime. 3) Make sure you put a fear of loss in them, that we are only hiring a few people. 4) And of course, make sure you preach about the opportunity because nobody will be excited about the actual job itself or the money you will make in reality while being in the field. 5) Close the interview, now this is the most interesting part because I dont' know too many companies who don't care about how an interview, just that the person is closed. It doesn't matter what the persons qualifications are, you're job is to close them.

The day is coming to an end and the interview is coming back to the office. They will come in and fill out a questionaire that will either have questions about concepts used or in general about their day. The purpose of this questionaire is 1) make the person once again feel the fear of loss, and 2) let the manager find out what the excitement level is. When the manager sits down with the interview, their number one concern is can this person start tomorrow. If the person can't they will try to convince them that they need to or the position will be gone. What I love about this is that if the person decides to come in the next day, they will see 10 more interviews in the lobby, wow that position was really going to be filled up.

This is my basic synopsis of how recruiting practices work within Cydcor offices, if you have any argument to that then please reply, I am always open to criticism. However, you will not find a Cydcor office that would be willing to fight a defamation suit because if you dig deep on them you will find something. Secondly, most offices can't afford to have anything interupt their sales week.

This is your closing 'The bottom line is that people want to complain. They want to find a reason not to take a risk because if they fail, they will have no one to blame. The world is a scary place but don't make it scarier by convincing yourself that everyone is out to get you.'

Nobody said anything about people being out to get you. Cydcor companies are not honest with their candidates and it is not because they are evil people that run these companies, it's because it's a system that has been in place for years and years. There is nothing wrong with taking risks, but truly successful people take calculated risks. If people are not given facts head on then they are not able to calculate their risk factor. If the position is not something that would work for the person then they really didn't fail on their own, they were assisted by this unethical recruiting practice.

I will close on explaining something that I assume your manager didn't. Your comment was, 'All of the companies listed in this blog are independent from each other. DS-Max is NOT affiliated with any of them.'

DS-Max started it all and then split into different factions. Originally it was just DS-Max, Granton, and Cydcor. As time went on other factions began to split away, they changed DS-Max to Innovage and sold the DS-Max name to another company. In the case of Cydcor, it is hard to say that offices are independent from Cydcor. Within Cydcor all sales you make for your client are paid out to Cydcor, then Cydcor dispurses the offices share to the office. If the office was independent than the client would send the wire directly to the office. Cydcor also has a contract that each ICL must sign with rules of how they can conduct their office. The contract frees Cydcor from any legal liability of the company, however can still force the ICL to follow its rules. I have to admit, it is pure genious on Cydcor's end. They bring in revenues with practically no risk factor. If an office opens and closes, they didn't lose a dime as would a larger corporation opening and closing a new branch.

And with that George I will wish you the best on all your endeavors. As you will learn, trying to defend Cydcor is like defending Hitler in Israel, I'm sure someone will listen but it's really just a lost cause.

Nick, those offices you described are part of CYDCOR, an offshoot of Ds Max (now Innovage)


I worked for Cydcor (Marketing FX) for 4 months last year. Their hiring practices are deceptive (See job description at Careerbuilder, below). Furthermore, they overwork their employees, making them work 60+ hours a week (Those voluntary Saturdays that CYDCOR employees talk about are mandatory). Third, the commissions rarely added up to minimum wage, and never added up to minimum plus overtime. I believe that this is not only unethical, but against the law. Fourth, they made us go on "Business trips" to Rockford and Columbus, OH where we had to pay much of our own expenses, and were told to "Write them off" on our taxes. (I will admit that I did get my hotel paid for, but that is because our office had better finances than most CYDCOR offices have)

The job description does not discuss exactly what employees will be doing. The actual job is Door to Door or lead-less business to business sales, in which you sometimes have to break no solicitation laws and annoy business and homeowners. The cult culture that so many talk about is also true, as they eat up your free time as well with team building exercises. Most offices collapse, as the Oakbrook, Illinois and Columbus, OH offices doing the AT&T consumer campaign shut down during my tenure.

If you see any job description advertising "Sports minded" or "Rapid advancement to management" or "You will be making hundreds of thousands of dollars in a few years" and/or their website is vague, you should be alert and double check the job, and check this site and the Better Business Bureau. Just remember, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

References:
Marketing FX job description (6/16/08) (Cut and paste link into your browser)
http://www.careerbuilder.com/JobSeeker/Jobs/JobDetails.aspx?IPath=JRM&ff=21&APath=2.21.0.0.0&job_did=J8H7YK78H4Q1NTJNNHC

Partial List of CYDCOR and other DS MAX spawn Offices in the Chicago region (based on other Ripoff Reports and/or personal experience):

Marketing FX
Green Light Marketing
Green Rock Marketing
Marketing Sessions
Warren International
Altitude Inc.
Triumph Media Group (TMG)
Victory Promotions

Ones to watch out for (not certain, but they sound suspicious based on their Careerbuilder job descriptions:
312 events inc.

Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

Typically, the elements of a cause of action for defamation include:

1. A false and defamatory statement concerning another;
2. The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party (that is, somebody other than the person defamed by the statement);
3. If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and
4. Damage to the plaintiff.

In the context of defamation law, a statement is 'published' when it is made to the third party. That term does not mean that the statement has to be in print.

Damages are typically to the reputation of the plaintiff, but depending upon the laws of the jurisdiction it may be enough to establish mental anguish.

Most jurisdictions also recognize 'per se' defamation, where the allegations are presumed to cause damage to the plaintiff. Typically, the following may constitute defamation per se Attacks on a person's professional character or standing.

This is a message to all people that are willing to put their name out on the line to bad mouth a company.

All of the companies listed in this blog are independent from each other. DS-Max is NOT affiliated with any of them. The research found on these companies is as accurate as most information you get on the internet. There is a reason why your college professors did not allow your references to come from the internet. :)

This is an opinion site ONLY! Be careful of spreading the wrong information. Most of the people reporting any complaints never even worked for the company or did for a short period of time.

These companies have an extensive interview process in order to avoid hiring someone that is not a fit. Also, they are growing companies, that have never had layoffs. This means that if someone submits a resume, they will actually contact you as soon as they can. The assumption is that if a candidate submits a resume, they are looking for a job to make money as soon as possible. The quicker they can get in for an interview, the quicker they can make money. Somehow, in today's negative world, this is considered desperate or unprofessional.

The words 'Sales and Marketing' are on every job posting. 'Advertising Agency' never appears anywhere on any posting. The truth is that most people don't even read the body of the posting, they just send their resume to 100 companies and hope for a hit.

The bottom line is that people want to complain. They want to find a reason not to take a risk because if they fail, they will have no one to blame. The world is a scary place but don't make it scarier by convincing yourself that everyone is out to get you.

Last note: The clients that are represented by these companies would not put their name and reputation on the line if they were not legitimate.