World Health Club WHC World Health: "Free" 2 weeks, unlawful "cancellation" fees Calgary, Alberta Canada

I read your comments and agree with you 100%. Have you or do you know anyone who has hired a lawyer and sued WH? I would love to as I agree with everything you said. I'm almost in the same boat as you, different circumstances, they know how to talk the talk. It would be great if a group of people hired a lawyer and spoke on our behalf.

"In response to Morgaine, we will be brief as the essence of our response doesn't seem to be understood.  Let us clarify:"

"1.  Being accredited with the BBB is NOT the same as an A+ rating.  Please do the research on the difficulty in obtaining an A+ rating - it has entirely to do with how you conduct business.  When looking at the volume of complaints consider the tens of thousands of members through all our locations.   http://www.bbb.org/calgary/business-reviews/health-clubs/world-health-edgemont-head-office-in-calgary-ab-41374"

      i.  I have done the research.  You claim A+ and - has to do entirely "with how you conduct business."  A fair amount of the companies I was speaking on which helped destroy America financially have A+ ratings.  British Petroleum, which has devastated communities, destroyed people's way of life, killed or maimed countless numbers of animals, and caused massive and probably permanent and unthinkable damage to our planet with their oil spill - has an A+ rating.   I do not understand how you see that having an A+ rating guarantees that your company is honest or not morally corrupt.  Why, is your A+ rating somehow special from the ones of all the other companies?  Because I didn't see anything on your BBB page that stated that.  If British Petroleum and corrupt financial institutions can obtain and A+ rating when they "conduct [their] business" in the way they do, what does that say about the credibility of your A+ rating?

"2.  Consumer's choice may not be an objective determination of a business' honesty, but it is an objective measure of whom consumers are choosing.  We would assert the odds of winning this award 6 years straight are highly unlikely for a dishonest business.  Virtually all of our members come by way of referral."

     i. I assume you didn't read the CBC link.  According to their investigative journalism (which I trust more than other news companies because are they are publicly owned), Consumer's Choice Awards gives favour to some companies over others, therefore not making it "an objective measure of whom consumers are choosing."

ii. In fact, Chuck Davidson, a spokesman for the Chamber of Commerce, actually felt the need to warn customers about the Consumer's Choice Awards by saying that:  "There would be an assumption that this is the best retailer, when they may not be No. 1 according to what the poll results were."

"3.  Again, the point is not the entire agreement but the requirement for initials immediately next to the part that matters.  If this does not signify an acknowledgement of the essence of the agreement I'm not sure what would.  In our opinion this couldn't be more clear and we would challenge you to find a more transparent agreement in a health club."

       i.  Challenge Accepted.  The argument was that some people signed all of the contract without reading anything on it and just taking the trainer's word on what they were signing.  Of course, I would never do this, but the point is that some people are in fact that trusting and naive.  I saw this happen to my dear friend with my very own eyes.  Again, you are asking "If this does not signify an acknowledgement of the essence of the agreement I'm not sure what would."  As I stated before: Informed Consent.  I suggest you 'google' that.  You can also claim you gave informed consent, however, many cases online by numerous customers state otherwise.

     ii.  The problem is that once your company has someone's signature on that paper, there is no arguing about it.  At best, you will offer them a cancellation fee which will cost them more money.  The problem is you have eager sales associates desperately trying to obtain signatures and because of that, people get misled or mistreated sometimes.  Since I have accepted your challenge, I will recall my experience with a smaller privately owned gym close to yours which may or may not be called the Bull Pen.  I wanted to buy creatine powder from the owner of this gym whom I will not name.  I didn't have cash on me, but he encouraged me to take it and "pay him back" later.  I did a long time after, and he never called me repeatedly (World Health does this when they want money from you or some of your billing information is correct), or send for my money through collections (this is World Health's common practice if you do not pay for your contract fees).   It's also nice being in a smaller privately owned gym where the owner talks to you almost every time you come in and actually knows a little but about your life.  I feel much safer giving this person my personal information as opposed to some commission crazed gym trainer.  On top of that, if you have to cancel some kind of agreement with these smaller privately owned gyms (say due to financial loss, bereavement, or simply because you didn't realize what you were signing (sound familiar world health) ), they will have no problem working with you. Don't expect to have to pay some bureaucratic "cancellation fee."  Also, don't expect them to destroy people's credit ratings and financial lives to get an extra couple hundred bucks out of them through collections.  Another suggestion, if you don't feel like dealing with self-interest driven businesses is you can sign up with a University or other government institution that has a workout facility.  Trust me, you won't get people who work at University gyms trolling online forums trying to negate consumer complaints ;)

   iii. I am not here because I am trying to commit some illogical smear campaign against your company.  I am here because I saw something unfair happen to my friend and I am being honest about this.  She has told me the truth as I do trust her and I know she is not lying.  Your company has given deaf ears as to what has happened to her and this here is the product of that.  I understand (well I hope) that your company assumed she was lying and therefore did not listen to her because you thought that, but she was not.  When I see something unfair happen to someone, I 'stick up' for them.  I will keep sticking up for her.  This is not the last you have seen of me.  I really do care when this happens to people which is why I am pursuing my undergrad degree so that I may enter law school and pursue human rights law, of which I would love to be involved in the consumer end of that.  

I am very passionate about this.  

You seem adamant in mindlessly defending a for profit company. 

What are you passionate about?

By the way, it's Morginie, not "Morgaine."


Sincerely,

Morginie

Mike, we are glad a satisfactory resolution was worked out for you.  We appreciate you pointing that out and also providing your perspective.  Your points are well taken.

In response to Morgaine, we will be brief as the essence of our response doesn't seem to be understood.  Let us clarify:

1.  Being accredited with the BBB is NOT the same as an A+ rating.  Please do the research on the difficulty in obtaining an A+ rating - it has entirely to do with how you conduct business.  When looking at the volume of complaints consider the tens of thousands of members through all our locations.   http://www.bbb.org/calgary/business-reviews/health-clubs/world-health-edgemont-head-office-in-calgary-ab-41374

2.  Consumer's choice may not be an objective determination of a business' honesty, but it is an objective measure of whom consumers are choosing.  We would assert the odds of winning this award 6 years straight are highly unlikely for a dishonest business.  Virtually all of our members come by way of referral.

3.  Again, the point is not the entire agreement but the requirement for initials immediately next to the part that matters.  If this does not signify an acknowledgement of the essence of the agreement I'm not sure what would.  In our opinion this couldn't be more clear and we would challenge you to find a more transparent agreement in a health club.


Sincerely,

World Health

"Your argument assumes we are dishonest.  Addressing that specific point:"

*Note:  I have divided your 3 point argument with roman numerals below.
Since you are addressing honesty, I will quote the Encyclopedia Britannica for the definition (to make sure we are on the same page), an online source nevertheless, but I imagine this will suffice.

"Honesty: 2 a: fairness and straightforwardness of conduct  b:  adherence to the facts : SINCERITY"

    I will also note some of it's synonyms, as I am not just speaking of honesty as a tendency not to lie, but also as integrity and moral consciousness.  I note this because I do foresee you claiming yourself as honest by simply saying that you do not 'misstate facts.'

"HONESTY, HONOR, INTEGRITY, PROBITY, mean uprightness of character or action. HONESTY, implies a refusal to lie, steal, or deceive in any way. HONOR, suggests an active or anxious regard for the standards of one's profession, calling, or position.INTEGRITY, implies trustworthiness and incorruptibility to a degree that one is incapable of being false to a trust, responsibility, or pledge. PROBITY implies tried and proven honesty or integrity."

Point 1:
" We maintain an A+ rating with the Better Business Bureau earned on the basis of complaints versus number of customers and successful resolution of those concerns.  We encourage you to compare our rating with other fitness centres."

      Instead of "comparing" you to other fitness centres on the basis of your BBB accreditation (which you suggest), I would like to negate your argument as a whole due to the facts below.  You claim your BBB accreditation is evidence that you are not "dishonest."  I will address that specifically.

     i.  Being part of the BBB does not mean a company is honest or morally sound.  I would like to give the example that various banks who were connected with the financial crisis of are members of the BBB .   British Petroleum, the company that is responsible for the largest company caused marine oil spill in the history of man-kind (the one you've all seen over the news) - is a member of the BBB.  This counter example is sufficient evidence to show that being a part of the BBB does not have anything to do with honesty, honour, integrity, or probity.

     ii.  In fact, I am not sure how you even thought being a BBB member is a strong argument in proving that you are not dishonest.  I would like to quote the BBB from their website:

"BBB has determined that World Health (Edgemont) (Head Office) meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB Accredited Businesses pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.BBB accreditation does not mean that the business' products or services have been evaluated or endorsed by BBB, or that BBB has made a determination as to the business' product quality or competency in performing services"

   iii.  The BBB does not evaluate the honesty or dishonesty of your business at all.  The author of the above complaint is speaking in regards to your "competency in performing services,"  which the BBB does not watch after at all.  In fact, the BBB simply gives you a score based on the fact that you have resolved complaints filed by customers, of which you have had one hundred and eleven in the past 3 years.  62 of which have occurred in the past year. On top of that, it does not give you a score on how well you resolved the complaint, just that the complaint was dealt with by your company.  I think it would be fair to assume that a large percentage of people do not bother going to the Better Business Bureau over their problems and that some people do not even know about it.  This leads me to wonder what the real number of complaints against your company actually is.


Point II:
  "2.  We are also the Consumers Choice award winners in the fitness category six years straight.  Although you are entitled to your own personal opinion, in light of this and the previous point clearly you are at odds with the majority opinion in the cities we serve."

      i. In your second point, you are using your Consumer Choice Award status to prove that you are not dishonest.  Consumer Choice awards pays a company called Leger Marketing to do their polling.  How do think they get the money to do this?  Do you not find that suspicious?   In 2009, CBC actually did some investigative journalism into this and they published an article on their findings; I encourage all readers to pursue the below link; this is what they found out:  

http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2009/09/11/business-consumerawards.html


Point III:
 "3.  The term length is not hidden in any way.  In fact, initials are required immediately to the right of that explanation (written in 12pt. text i.e. not small print) at the time of enrolment (attached for review)."

        i. Again, in regards to my previous comment, I was not claiming the term length was hidden in any way on paper.  However,  the claim was that the main idea of the contract was hidden by the staff issuing the contract to the signer: not visually on the contract - but verbally and through social interaction.  What was being claimed was that when a person comes into your gym, high-pressure sales and a low level of explanation in regard to what is being signed occurs.  You can of course dismiss this - however, I encourage objective readers of this rebuttal to do a simple search of the internet and behold the plethora of hits one receives about people being misled about their World Health contracts.  Being that we are not even arguing about the terms on your paper contracts (we are arguing about dishonesty), this is not an argument showing you are not dishonest.  I actually don't know what you are trying to get at.

  "Because initials are required, and the term is in the same box as what the member is paying up front and thereafter, it is difficult for us to understand how someone can be confused about what they are signing."

        ii. I do not find this difficult to understand at all, as I doubt readers will as well.   You are claiming that because someone has had to initial beside their contract term you think it is impossible for them not to have missed that?  You do realize that when many people have to sign paper work, they look to where they are supposed to sign, sign it, and then give it back.  If I go to a car dealership and ask to rent a car for a week, fill out the paper work they give me, and then I find out it was a 2 year lease, that is unfair and dishonest; in fact, that would be illegal.   Of course, some people know better, but the Average person may just assume that you have made the effort to inform as to what he is signing.   I find it offensive that you are even insinuating that writing on contracts is all that is needed to inform a customer.  Informed consent is what is needed to inform a customer;  That is the "best practice."

  "We assert this is a best practice in our industry assuring transparency and believe the objective reader will agree."

   iii. I think it is a good thing that the government decides what the best practices in industry are and not companies.  We all know what businesses operating in their own self interest do when there are no checks and balances to their power.  I find it very amusing that you "assert" that your company has the "best practice[s]" and then provide the weak points above to support this statement.

"Should one request cancellation of membership prior to completion of the term they've agreed to, we offer a simple inexpensive option easily available at the phone number provided previously (and in any club)."

    iv. However, if one is pressured, or even misled, into this contract through smoke and mirrors and/ or high pressure sales tactics, your company will, of course, have no sympathy (as displayed by numerous people complaining online).  "Inexpensive" is a matter of opinion.  A dear friend of mine ended up paying around $150 to opt out of a contract she did not ask to sign. She asked for a month to month membership and she ended up signing the 12 month contract.  She paid dearly for it.  In the end, even though she is unemployed, she now has to pay a very expensive fee to opt out of a contract she did not mean to sign.  Next time she knows to read everything when a friendly gym trainer says: "Just sign these papers."

      You started your rebuttal in regards to proving you are honest by saying "Your argument assumes we are dishonest.  Addressing that specific point:"

   You addressed proving you are not dishonest with 3 points:

I:  We are with the BBB and have a good rating:
     Evidence I provided shows that dishonest companies can be part of the BBB and, in fact, the BBB does not even deal with company honesty - just resolved consumer complaints.

II:  We have the Consumer's Choice Award Evidence I provided and also journalist research done by the CBC shows that the 'Consumer's Choice Award' is not objective and is therefore, in fact, not a good judge of a company's honesty.

III: We state what will happen to customers on obvious places on our contract and they can also opt out of this contract.
Your contract can state whatever it wants, that does not make it legal or valid, no matter who signs it, if it violates government law or procedure in regards to signing of contracts (of course, that is for a judge to decide).  I may have a piece of paper in my house which states certain things on certain places, this also does not prove that I am honest or dishonest.  I bet the n**i party had a lot of contracts lying around as well that state things on "obvious places." This however, is not a good argument, or an indicator that you are honest.  You also failed to note that opting out of this contract, even if the person was unfairly signed into it, will cost over a hundred dollars.  So if an old 80 year old lady accidentally signs your 12-month contract and can't afford it, you're gonna bill her a hundred and fifty bucks of her pension money to get out of it?

In conclusion I find it very telling, as to the moral fibre of you company, that you could only provide weak, and in fact, invalid, arguments when trying to defend your honesty.

I find it sad that I am here and write with a heavy heart.  However, I am here because I have witnessed an injustice.  I am posting here on behalf of my experience with World Health and that of others I have met online.  I witnessed my dear friend treated in an uncompassionate and disrespectful manner by a company and it's staff who at first pretended to care about her health.  I am angry because I saw her robbed of her dignity, and this breaks my heart.  I am an honest person - and I am here asking anyone who reads this to heed what has happened to my friend and other people and to not sign a contract with World Health.  I also ask and implore anyone who has a contract with this company to close it and pursue your fitness with a more morally sound business, such as a smaller privately owned gym.  This is a problem of people getting walked on by mindless greedy business and we need to do something to stop it. I believe we can show what we think is right or wrong and make a difference with our wallets - please do not pursue a membership with World Health, or, cancel your existing membership with this company if you have one.

I would also like to offer a helping hand to anyone who has been wronged or mistreated by this company in any way.  Please contact me at (((ROR redacted))).  We are much stronger in numbers.

Sincerely,

A citizen of the City of Edmonton

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

As a point of public interest, this matter was resolved to my satisfaction (resolution included below).

In response to World Health Club:

- Quote: " Trial memberships are offered everyday and it is difficult for us to see anyone mistaking a membership contract for a trial membership.  In your claim you mention 24 planned personal training sessions which indicates you were aware you entered a membership agreement".

I counter-argue that entering into 24 sessions of personal training does not necessarily constitute an understanding on behalf of the consumer that they are entering into a long term agreement. Under the guise of a "two week trial", a consumer could easily believe that they could use the facilities and associated paid services within that time frame and choose to cancel if so desired with no penalty to them.

Similar to "money back guarantees", retailers offer (on average) 30 days for the customer to return purchased goods subject to conditions. In this case, the two week trial was understood as such a time period. I have never disagreed with paying for services used up to that point (which is further explained in the ultimate resolution).

- Quote: "We do in fact offer memberships with no term meaning you can cancel them with 30 days written notice.  Many people choose term membership options instead as longer commitment allow us to offer lower rates than a
no commitment membership. "

At no time was such an option presented either during the initial "tour" (which was really a sales pitch), during the fiasco of cancelling my account, or thereafter.

- Quote: "When you signed your agreement, in addition to the signature line at the bottom, there is a specific box for your initials acknowledging the membership term.  We believe this is transparent and straightforwardly
discloses the membership term."

As per my above point in the example of retailers, I could argue that the expectation between consumer and retailer is that I will have the goods permanently, and have a time frame within which to cancel. In the case of WHC, that was also the understanding. I believe the term is "buyer's grace period" or something to that effect, in which the customer is given a certain period to reconsider their decision. I do believe such a stipulation is made in the paperwork of the membership agreement, though I must point out it is far below the provincial and federally accepted limitations.

Thank you Morgan. Your summary was highly appreciated.

In closing, this matter was resolved as follows:

- I agreed to cover the membership dues from the time of signature up to and including three months of unused dues, as an act of good faith and also to fall in line with WHC's own cancellation policy of 90 days written notice.

- I agreed to cover the then-used sessions (four, I believe) and outright rejected the remaining training sessions and remaining membership fees.?

- I outright rejected any claims of a cancellation fee pushed by WHC, as it is quite clearly NOT included on the inverse of the membership agreement.

- WHC accepted my offer and demanded payment of the compromised amount on the same day of their acceptance of my offfer, which I politely refused.

- Regular payments of 100 monthly until clearance were undertaken, and this matter is now resolved as agreed on by WHC.

In summation:

- Read your terms
- Don't be afraid to push back
- Be prepared to give a little in good faith to gain a lot in negotiations
- Ask yourself if the fight is really worth it; at a difference of over $2000, absolutely it was for me.

Best wishes.

Your argument assumes we are dishonest.  Addressing that specific point:

1.  We maintain an A+ rating with the Better Business Bureau earned on the basis of complaints versus number of customers and successful resolution of those concerns.  We encourage you to compare our rating with other fitness centres. 

2.  We are also the Consumers Choice award winners in the fitness category six years straight.  Although you are entitled to your own personal opinion, in light of this and the previous point clearly you are at odds with the majority opinion in the cities we serve.

3.  The term length is not hidden in any way.  In fact, initials are required immediately to the right of that explanation (written in 12pt. text i.e. not small print) at the time of enrolment (attached for review).  Because initials are required, and the term is in the same box as what the member is paying up front and thereafter, it is difficult for us to understand how someone can be confused about what they are signing.  We assert this is a best practice in our industry assuring transparency and believe the objective reader will agree.

Should one request cancellation of membership prior to completion of the term they've agreed to, we offer a simple inexpensive option easily available at the phone number provided previously (and in any club).

Sincerely,

World Health

I'd like to set the record straight as well.Your response is like listening to an unempathetic automated machine and not that of a human being.

"We appreciate your concerns but also feel the need to set the record straight here.  Trial memberships are offered everyday and it is difficult for us to see anyone mistaking a membership contract for a trial membership."

I've been on consumerreports.com and also this website.  There are many people who are reporting not being clear on the terms of their contract or the paper work they are signing in dealing with your company.    I called an attorney inquiring about your company.  When she called me back her first words were: "So World Health got you, eh?"  This was obviously not her first time hearing about this company.  This attorney also informed me that World Health is involved in 2 lawsuits in Calgary, Alberta, in regards to the treatment of their customers.  

"In your claim you mention 24 planned personal training sessions which indicates you were aware you entered a membership agreement."

I find it offensive that on top of not listening to the above poster's claims, you are now labelling him as a liar.

Your attitude is that he signed the contract so now it cannot be voided.  He has obviously stated that he did not consent to sign what he did as he thought it was something else and he did not have a clear understanding of the paper work.  On top of that, if the gym trainer knowingly gave this gentleman the wrong paper work, that is considered fraud.  You cannot merely get someone's signature on something and make them do whatever you want. There are laws against that.  They have to know what they are signing.  One cannot tell you to sign a cell phone contract, and then after signing, you find out there was a clause saying that you have to give that company your pension. That is considered, and I quote Canadian law code, a "dishonest act."  That is fraud if you were not aware.  Of course a buyer must take caution in reading their contract, but the seller also has an obligation to make sure the buyer is informed.  There are many laws against this.  Read section 380 of the criminal code on fraud or simply look at the fair trade act (servicealberta.com).  Now, obviously with World Health Club the employees are pressured and/ or are on commission which causes them to rush people into contracts.

I find it extremely worrisome that when someone signs something at your company you are so vigilant in upholding the contract.  It shows a real lack of empathy and a frightening expose of bureaucratic greed.  Of course, I am not speaking just on this situation, but from my personal experience with World Health, and that of the many others I have read online here.  At the end you also informed us that he can cancel his contract.  You failed to note that to cancel this contract, he would have to pay a fee.
 
"When you signed your agreement, in addition to the signature line at the bottom, there is a specific box for your initials acknowledging the membership term.  We believe this is transparent and straightforwardly discloses the membership term."
 
My family owns a psychology practice.  Sometimes, they must disclose a client's private information to an institution such as social services, etc.  They give the client a paper that they must sign saying that it is okay for them to have their information revealed to so and so.  What my family does is they sit down with the client and verbally describe to them each paragraph of what they are going to sign.  This is called informed consent.  It is made sure to the utmost standard that this person understands what they are signing.  This is considered to be not only a professional business practice but also follows a moral standard.  By declaring that your level of integrity in regards to contracts consists of a "specific box" for someones initial, I believe this really shows a lack of real credibility.
 
Sincerely,
 
Morgan

We appreciate your concerns but also feel the need to set the record straight here.  Trial memberships are offered everyday and it is difficult for us to see anyone mistaking a membership contract for a trial membership.  In your claim you mention 24 planned personal training sessions which indicates you were aware you entered a membership agreement.  We do in fact offer memberships with no term meaning you can cancel them with 30 days written notice.  Many people choose term membership options instead as longer commitment allow us to offer lower rates than a no commitment membership. 
 
When you signed your agreement, in addition to the signature line at the bottom, there is a specific box for your initials acknowledging the membership term.  We believe this is transparent and straightforwardly discloses the membership term.  Further, we would like to point out that we maintain an A+ rating with the Better Business Bureau.  http://www.bbb.org/canada/Find-Business-Reviews/.  We would encourage any interested reader to compare with our competitors.
 
Even if you have entered into a membership term we do have flexible options to exit early instead of completing the full term.  We would recommend you contact Head Office and speak to an associate by dialling 1-866-278-4131, Option 1 then Option 3, who will be able to review your personal circumstances and assist you further with your requests.
 
Sincerely,
 
World Health