Onyx WholeSale - Scentura Creations ripoff Fraud Company has you thinking you will make money what they dont tell you is that your selling fake perfumes and walking the streets for no money!! Arvada Colorado

OK, My name is Josh. i previosley worked for chris and iris also known as Onyx Wholesale.
i went to the same first interview as you did sarah and i sat in the same second interview as you did, and i worked my booty off and made alot of $ every week. i am so tired of peopl who want to be lazy and blame it on the company for the reasone they are not there anymore. i went through the training and i got my own office in colorado springs, and yes i made alot of money their as well. every time i read these comments i see the same thing i was there for 3 days then i read this and quit. so does that mean if you read that killing yourself was the new trend you would kill yourself. you are just listening to what someone else said because in the long run their is no way this could have been your fault that you quit, possibly the greatest opportunity of a life time, you see and this is for everyone who reads this most people try to base thier success on a couple of days that is why all poeple are not successfull they are so quick to give up on someting just because they did not get the results right away.

I have done extensive research on the company and on rip off report most of the comments are from the same people, and each time this so called person went through the training in a different city i find it hard to belive, that someone who hates the company so much would move to another city just to go through it again. i call bs on the person doing this. and you say chris is a fake and his loft is not real well think again i have been their and he does have a flat screen and yes the loft i on 16 stree mall but due to his privacy i wont say were and his car is not a rental. and until you have proper information from your so called drunk friends who droped him off at a friends of his instead of taking him home. well sweet heart maybee your friend was just too drunk and too ugly for chirs to bother with her.

so until someone comes up with solid evidence that this is a scam why dont you go to a website that has alot of people who say a lot of good things about us. like scenturacreations you will see some of the success this so called fake perfume and cologne brought some of us.
i will let the pages speek for themselves.

I have read some bad ones but this one just deserves attention

The Scentura Business Model

Scentura itself does not sell to consumers and makes sure to keep a great legal distance between itself and the local distributors to minimize liability. It would be possible, theoretically, to open up a store in a local mall to sell only Scentura products. While this idea would float like a rock, Scentura would no doubt accept the sales outside of its traditional business model. However, most -- if not all -- of Scentura products are sold through Direct Marketing. Every step in the process and every level in the pyramid are meticulously scripted. Scentura produces reams of handbooks, pamphlets, posters, and other propaganda to "assist" local distributors in training new recruits to peddle their perfume. All this literature is designed to keep would-be defectors in line, keeping their tunnel-vision focused tightly on the huge dollar bills at the end of the long road to success.

In spite of the fact that instructions come from the top of the organization, legally Scentura cannot be held liable for any actions taken by the local companies. Unlike franchises like McDonald's or Wendy's, where the parent corporation is responsible for the actions of the independent owners of their businesses, Scentura remains aloof, far removed from the businesses that actually sell their products. Currently, no state of federal legislation exists to hold Scentura accountable for the actions executed by the local companies, even if the companies are operating on order from Scentura. It should not surprise the reader that this is yet another manipulation of the American justice system.
The overall business model is very simple: recruit people to sell perfume. Those who sell enough will be asked to open their own distribution company, at which point the employee registers their business with the state and leases office space. The more bottles of perfume they push through the pipeline, the higher they rise, from district manager to regional manager and beyond.

The core of the business is in these local distribution companies. Once an employee has risen to the level of owning their own distribution company, this independently owned and operated company will dedicate a certain amount of their budget to advertise job openings in newspapers and other forms of media. The newspaper ads usually reflect a desperate need for managers. They often stress that no training is necessary and that the applicant enjoy a fun, non-serious work environment in order to attract a younger demographic. Phrases like "Sports Minded" and "Music Oriented" are often used, even though the business has nothing to do with music or sports. Must like music & fun.

These job postings serve as the only advertisement most of these companies need, and many do not sponsor any other form of ads beyond job postings. These advertisements are essential to keeping a steady flow of new applicants. With an attrition rate of 90% per week (only 10 out of every 100 applicants stay on past one week, according to some former managers), this constant flow is essential to keeping the business running. If a distribution center neglects to run these ads for even a week, the flow of people is cut off and the center's sales are impacted for about 5 weeks due to not having the cash-generating "Friends and Family" sales from trainees.

While managers are free to post whatever help-wanted ads they please, they are given a list of tried-and-true ads to run in local newspapers. They are told not only what section to advertise but what days the ads should be run. If the company runs the same ad during all the days of the week, people reading the paper will start to catch on and, more importantly, the newspaper editors will get suspicious. Many newspapers will not run ads from direct-marketing companies in the "General Employment" section. They are relegated to the much less-often perused "Sales" or "Business Opportunity" sections. To avoid this, managers are instructed to tell newspapers to get creative with their business descriptions (something they will have to do time and time again) and say "cosmetic distribution." They are told never to mention the words "sales" or "independent contractors" or "training to run ones own business." The ads include phony names to allow the company to track which ads are generating the highest responses. Likewise, the companies invest in multiple phone lines; not to handle a large volume of calls, but to have the ability to publish many different phone numbers in different ads to avoid suspicion.

Everyone who responds to these ads is invited to an "interview." In this interview, a fast-talking company manager will promise anything from management positions in charge of other employees to 401(k) plans to paid vacations; anything to keep the applicant's eyes glossed over so they don't ask what the true nature of the job is. The most common theme in these interviews is "management." Since most people want to be in charge of other people, this stimulates the most positive response from the applicant while keeping questions to a minimum. Occasionally the interviewer will toss out fake programs and acronyms while discussing "benefits" to assess the applicant's knowledge of the business world. The whole purpose is to confuse the applicant into thinking that they have stumbled onto a terrific opportunity, one so great that they have benefits he or she hasn't even heard of before! At the end, the applicant is almost always told they have "made the cut" and are instructed to dress their best to come to the "second interview" in a few days. In the first interview, the applicant (unless they are savvy enough to ask the question themselves) is never told what the job is or what a typical work day will be like.

At the second interview -- in reality it is not an interview at all -- all of the applicants (15 - 20 people, on average) gather together and are finally told a little bit more about what they will actually be doing to make a buck. Somewhere between the promises of free Las Vegas vacations and expensive new cars, it is explained that they will be selling perfume, and that their "management"position means only that they will "manage themselves." Anyone who sticks around after this exposure to the truth will then enter the system, be asked to purchase a seller's kit (which is itself a quick sale for the managers of the distribution company), and are promised they are on the road to success.

Many of these companies claim they are "new to the area" or "opening new branches." This will deter anyone from asking why a business which has been in the area for years would need to hire employees by the score. In reality, this process of indoctrination is the true sales pitch of the company, rather than the selling of perfume bottles. Therefore every aspect of the process must be scripted and rehearsed to ensure that all questions are answered before asked, and those not to be asked remain unsaid.

From a former employee: "They charge $27 per bottle. If they have at least 20 people sell 50 bottles every month they would make a net profit of $13,500. Even after the trainees take there cut the company makes a little over $11,000. That is a lot of money to be making a month and if you quit they can hire 20 more people and make more money."

It is very possible that the next step constitutes the majority of sales generated by the company. There is even an acronym for it in Scentura-speak: FFAR. It stands for "Friends, Family, and Relatives." This is who the employee is supposed to "practice" selling on. This is the cornerstone of the scam perpetrated by many Direct Marketing companies. The newbie salesman must first practice the pitch to their parents and grandparents, and since many of them tend to be teenagers or early 20-year-olds, the relatives usually buy something out of love or pity. What grandparent doesn't want to support their grandchild's ventures? This results in a few quick sales for the company from people who otherwise would have never purchased the product on its merit alone. After these FFAR sales the vast majority of workers realize that this isn't a real job at all, and quit. This resignation does no damage to the company, however. The company has already made a few bucks without any payout, and there's already another sucker just waiting to fill the vacated position.

This initial "warm market" phase of the applicant process is perhaps where most of the earnings of the company take place. Since the business is so decentralized there is no way of looking at the overall flow of capital; any statement made about earnings is only an estimate. Many Direct Marketing businesses require (or at least strongly suggest) that new applicants purchase "sales kits." These result in quick sales for the company, adding again to the bottom line of the local distributor. In reality, job applicants are not being considered for employment, there are being used as customers.

Beyond the activity described here, the company is comprised of warehouses, managers, middlemen, people transporting boxes upon boxes of perfume in the trunks of cars, and other mundane operations. There most likely are no big sales contracts, no mergers or acquisitions, no research and development, no product advertising, none of the honest income generating activities that a normal American business engages in.

People who do this for a living

"You tell [applicants] that they can do it if they make enough sacrifice, burn bridges with their family and friends who try to talk them out of it (in effect, alienating them from everyone but other people in the perfume business), Put the blinders on taking all focus away from any 'Pre Scentura' values/priorities and they can be successful" (3) says Mike Barrick, a former employee with 10 years experience in the company. The system is designed to give both the applicants and current participants a sort of tunnel-vision to avoid outside information that invariably dissuades them from continuing selling perfume. While the managers are guilty of repeating this propaganda to new applicants, they too receive a constant flow of "inspiration" from their superiors, keeping them focused on the money and not applicant's best interests.

For the "successful" people in this business, their lives must be ruled by greed. They are trained to rationalize their own immoral actions by dismissing those who fail as somehow not having the business-savvy that they obviously have, when in fact the only savvy they do have is the ability to scam kids into effectively stealing money from their parents and grandparents. Many of those who succeed only see good money for a very short period of time, and as with all pyramid-structured organizations, the money eventually filters to the top tiers, leaving the rest to wonder what happened to the last 5 years of their lives.

Those who have been sold into their system often display a visceral reaction when confronted with the truth of the business. Statements like "I am 20 yrs. old and I went through the training in 4 weeks and I know make 1,000's of dollars legally so just because you couldn't do it doesn't mean you have to get pissed off. People have tried to stop us before and it didn't work so you might as well stop because you are wasting your time" (4) lend support to the idea that any criticism of the business model is to be dealt with quickly and harshly by management. New recruits are trained to ignore the advice of their parents and friends and to believe that any information outside of the Scentura-approved material will be an obstacle in their road to success. Those who choose to realize the true nature of the business and leave are described as "weak" and without the skills to make it in the cut-throat business world. These are very important and powerful psychological operations, critical to the success of the business.

For each one of the thousands of horror stories you hear, Scentura advocators will be happy to provide glossy booklets of the many millionaires who worked up through the system. But where are the publications of people who sank life savings into these companies because of promises of the good life, only to be kicked to the curb when times got tough? Hard work alone does not a successful businessmen make. It takes a lot of work to rob a bank, but are the thieves to be called "good businessmen?"

Well by the looks of it, Onyx wholesale has been getting many similar complains for several years now. They must be doing something right, dont you think? If its such a "scam" , you would think that they would be shut down by now, struggling, etc. Unfortunately for people that "got smart and quit", they never get to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Its a very, very, simple business. Its monkey see, monkey do. If you can do what Chris and Iris did, you'll be running an office driving z's and audi's and jags. Yes, the diehards peddle perfume. But the fragrances alone have have very little to do with the business. Its a people business. That is the huge reason why the company never dwindles with the economy. The economy has nothing to do with people f***ing eachother and making more people. Ergo, there are always people looking for jobs, new people to hire, etc. (if you think about it, the business thrives when the economy sucks). The people that quit, go home, and cry to this website is the reason the business stays afloat. The select few that make it to ownership is the reason the business grows and never dies. I'm not going to go into detail about what the company does and why and what you'll see because the previous reporters on this site have managed to do that already with their sad unemployed lives. And if you had half a brain and looked at their business for two weeks, you can figure it out yourself. Oh, and just so its clear, they NEVER tell you a single lie. They just super sugarcoat the truth. and once again, if you have half a brain, you'd see that and you'd know why they do so. It brings in people like sarah from greeley. :) I really dont understand why people are so apalled by this company. Fortune 500 companies use the hell out of people and throw them under the bus, mainly because there's one CEO and you will never be him/her. Atleast this company lets you throw yourself under the bus. haha. and if you ever wanted to make it up to chris and iris' level, they'll let you do that too. You gotta have balls to make it that far though, thats for sure. Otherwise go get a real "job" (like at mcdonalds) and work for someone else for the rest of your life.

And if you're reading these postings pondering whether or not to go to the interview, why the hell not? What else are you going to be doing? looking for a job right? so while you do that might as well take a look at their business stucture for two weeks. its so simple its brilliant. If anything the people that run the place will teach you that you can do anything you put your mind to, whether its peddling perfume or another catalyst to success. 

oh and if you want an interview, their phone number is the same one from years ago. 3039403580

Much respect and appreciation

lisa/rice again

 

Scentura offices get shut down all the time! I have personally tracked Chris Westphal through 3 different cities in two states over the last SEVEN years! And I'm still compiling a list of the DOZENS of different names he's used for those offices!

Lol. In the last century, we had a name for people who did business in such a way: 'Gypsies'! 

But I'll give you this much; Scentura will never go away. Because there's a sucker born every minute.

Same people same bull-sh*t statements.  And this Bull-sh*t "business plan" from noah is the same crap he's been posting since 2001.  I wish he'd get new ammo.  Their only bullets are from 1999 and 2001 and just the same crap over and over. 

Here's our business plan:  We Sell Perfume

 

That's it.  Now if we teach and train others how to do our jobs we get raises.  What a country.  Our product is the best out there, you can't find another product that runs from $20-$30 dollars that's better then ours. It is the holidays and business is amazing.  But then it gets better Jan-Feb are better then Dec.  It smells amazing, last long, and everytime the person wear's it they think about who got it for them.  You can earn enough money in training and a lot of money in your own office.  And this whole FFAAR is bull-sh*t.  Yes it does bring in bussiness and yes you can make some money from it but it's probably the second to last as far as the ways we bring in business.  It's extra, and more for the new people to put a extra $100 or more in their pocket before they get started. 

And lisa you really are smart.  I wish I had some of those rebuttals.  And Rio you're right scentura will never go away.  As long as there are people like Josh, Lisa, Chris, Iris, myself, and the other thousands of us that are looking for more then the paycheck to paycheck lifestyle we will thrive.  But that leaves people like yourself busy being little internet terrorist.  But it's only a little over a week till Christmas so I hope you, and your little terrorist family Noah, Zombie, Jd, rz80, and any others that I missed have a happy holiday and happy new year.  Good luck.  Best wishes 

Scentura is a scam in the truest sense of the word! Is there money to be made? Yes, and alot of it. But it's not made by peddling cheap perfume, it's made by convincing desperate people to go out and sell this crap without paying them a wage under the guise of "training". This way people like Papa can sit in some tiny office (until the company packs up and moves to another town under a new name) and pretend they are legitimate business people earning a good salary for honest work.

The consumer gets what they pay for, but the real victims are these trainees who peddle this stuff on the streets without realizing that the real corporate goal is for them to get frustrated and leave so that they can start the cycle over with a new sucker. 

How much of your 10K a week gets paid out in employee wages and benefits? I didn't think so. It's morally corrupt cons preying on desperate workers. Way to go Papa. You're living the Amerian dream...

Rio Rio Rio you have to be one of the most uneducated blow-outs I've ever come across.  You obviously don't get it and weren't around long enough to get it.  What you were in the business for 3 days??  Man that makes you a expert.  Lets dissct your crap now. 

First you say it's a scam.  Where when and how you forget to mention that part. How could I convince anyone to sell our product.  It's a choice some people choose to work at gas stations, factory's, and restaurants for 30 years because they chose to do it.  If you're to good to sell our product you can't  manage people that sell it.  Thats called hypocrisy.  You can't manage a McDonalds if you are to good to flip burgers thats what you do.  We sell perfume, its what we do, and we tell them that in the first interview if not on the phones when they call in to set up the appointment. And you can work at a gas station, bank, or restaurant for 30 years but you'll never own it.  Here you work for about 90 days and you own a office.   

Now for the money part.  I'm glad you acknowledge that you can make a lot of money because you can.  But you can make a lot of money in the training.  I have people that will make $800-$1000 this week in training because it's the week of christmas.  That's better then we tell them that it is.  We say that you'll make between 200-500 a week in training.  And if you ask any manager running their own office I bet %90 of them made over $300 a week during training.  If I had to re-start today and go through training all over again to open a new office I wouldn't make less then $500 a week in training. 

Then it comes to my office and my income.  First of all I've never said I make 10K a week, I don't, not that others don't but I don't.  I'm not rich and famous but I live in a $1000/mo condo drive nice cars and have zero debt.  Which I believe is the American Dream.  And now my office.  Sir my office is huge and just the art work alone is probably worth more than you've ever made in a year in your life so screw off their. 

Now you say our "corporate goal" is for them to quit.  Wrong you make twice if not three or four times more money a year promoting people into their own offices.  I'd put every person I've ever had in a orientation into their own office in about 90 days if they didn't blow-out.  And then I'd be rich and famous.  There is a certain percentage of people that just have to have that paycheck to paycheck lifestyle, they don't make it here.  But if they changed their outlook they could run a office just as good as I do.  Obviously like I stated before you don't get it.  We have more business then we can handle.  I could promote 50 new offices tomorrow if we had the managers and still not handle all the business we have. 

So sorry Rio that you don't get it, even other internet terrorist like noah and Jd know all of that.  You need to re-load buddy and noah and Jd just need new ammo.  So if thats enough for you I hope to never read one of you BS rebuttals anymore.  But just like always I wish you good luck and happy holidays. 

You're a coward Papa Perfume! You're going after other posters now because I've stumped you on this! Your answer is that you don't understand it. Well ignorance is no excuse son.

Show us some proof that your operation is completely legit! Not something related to how much money you make, not something related to how many people have gotten rich from it; just solid proof that it is in fact a legitimate operation.

I showed you the result of a real court case that ruled your contract was part of a pyramid sales scheme, violated the law and was unenforceable so I've already presented my argument. You say it isn't a pyramid but the court ruled it was. You are not above the law sir!

Click link for actual court case:

http://www.state.il.us/court/Opinions/AppellateCourt/2001/2ndDistrict/September/Html/2000964.htm

Well since I don't like your name I'm gonna call you Mr. Terrorist.  You are always so wrong, but I do love the "game" we play.  I never change the subject as a matter of fact if you ever read my rebuttals I always go right after the questions.  So here I go again for you Mr. Terrorist. 

I'm gonna start from the middle here, I'd be and I'm sure any office manager would be more then happy to show you my business lic.  And as a matter of fact you have to have several including a: DBA license, Retail sales License, City License, and a Occupancy License.  And they have to be renewed every so often.  That would prove I'm legit.  But if you want I'd be more than happy to compare my last 6 years of taxes with your last 6 years if that satisfies you? 

Now you say you've showed me a "real court cast that ruled my contract was illegal"  First of all I don't believe it.  And if you'd be more than happy to give me your legal first and last name and your date of birth I'd be more than happy to create a website that says lots of very nice things about who you are.  Second that was a contract between Dan Long and Scentura, not with me and anyone.  I agree that I don't understand the language I graduated high school not law school.  Third this was back in 1999 dumb ass.  I wasn't even in the business then, so I could care less. 

Now I'm not ignorant I've been told the story about Dan Long and Scentura and I believe the Scentura side.  Here's a cliff notes version:  I was told he was in the business about 7 years.  Did very well became a regional manager was makeing a large six figure income.  He had serious problems in his personal life and was making lots of bad decisions and it started giving the company a bad rep.  Was told to screw-off and blew out and went to another wholesale fragrance company, World Perfume (who we are not), and continued his crap there until the company went under. 

So there is a little info maybe you didn't have??  Now next, I don't run a pyramid because they are illegal.  First of all in a pyramid there has to be some sort of investment or collateral, our business there is none of monetary value.  It's blood, sweat, and tears for about 90 days. 

Next.  I've never had anyone in my operation get arrested for selling our product.  I've had people get arrested in the field, but it was because they had warrants for things they had done outside the business.  Next, what we do is not illegal we do business to business sales that is not illegal.  If we sell in a parking lot, that is private property and if we get asked to leave we do.  The only people I've ever had get ticked in my operation are the ones that didn't leave, which was for trespassing.  And every soliciting ticket any person ever got didn't stand up in court as soon as we showed our sales lic.  And yes I paid the tickets that my people got that were their faults anyways. 

So now on to you.  I don't attack anyone personally because I've never met them, I do call them idiots but that's about as far as it goes.  But you Mr. Terrorist you may take the prize for most unintelligent of them all.  All you've done is just jump on the back of the others negative pile ons.  At least noah and Jd and some of the others have done their own research you on the other hand are just stupid.  All of you take your info from BS sources.  And your only ammo is this which you post over and over and over again and it comes from 1999.  A lot of things have changed in the last 10+ years buddy.  I almost wish that you had more ammo than just that, but you DON'T!!

So here's the facts now:  We are a direct sales company.  If you apply you apply to run or assist in running, or manage or assist in managing a new office in our company.  There is a 90 day hands on learning program where you'll learn every aspect of our business from sales and marketing, to teaching, training, and leadership, to admin and managing on of our offices.  Income during the training is a average of $200-$500 a week based upon sales profits, bonuses and overrides.  Income upon completing in Unlimited.  Some successful managers make 40k others make over a million a year. 

Well it is Christmas Eve tomm. so I wish everybody happy holidays, yes even the blow-outs.  And even you Mr. Terrorist. 

And now just like you I'm gonna copy and paste my post.  HaHa

Well, at least you researched the case but how come I had to ask so many times? The ruling was that your contract was unenforceable in a court of law, not that it was illegal.

Calling other posters and myself terrorists is out of line. We’re nothing more than Americans exercising our first amendment rights on the internet, just like you! So to compare us to those pieces of sh*t that seek to kill Americans and destroy our way of life is just ludicrous. I may not agree with your business practices but I still respect you a fellow American.

Well you answered so I’ll tell you this. I’m an outside observer, not a blow-out. I’m researching direct marketing companies for a Business Law class I’m taking. I’m not unemployed and I’m well on my way to making more than any of you clowns. A lot other students have complained about Scentura and they were not people who only went to the first or second interview. I’m talking months of making hardly any money and no office.

So if what you say is true it obviously wasn’t your office. So why are you trying so hard to defend other owners who don’t do the business honestly?

WOW!!!  Civility who knew?  I read the case 6 years ago when I got started in the business.  And I've read it several times since.  I really don't understand the language as I state. 

Now I call you internet terrorist because that is what you do.  You do destroy peoples way of life in this business.  I've been around long enough and am secure enough to get blasted and still be standing the next week, next month, and next year.  But I have seen new offices destroyed by this crap.  Because of people that are uneducated about our business and read and believe this crap.  So in that essence you all are terrorist.  Someone that has been here for 3-4 months gave blood, sweat, and tears gets flushed down the drain cause of some BS that a person who just came in for a Interview or Orientation put on here.  That's not fair.  And then we have all the pile on's with the same crap that's been around for 10+ years and they just opened their doors.  Not fair. 

I'm not saying there haven't been managers who were ass clowns, Dan Long was one of them, but as a majority most of us managers are average people that were looking for a above average income and lifestyle.  As I stated I only graduated high school and thats it what could I do today to live the lifestyle that I live today.  I'm not rich, but I live in a very nice neighborhood, and completely debt free and for the most part do what I want when I want to.  Yes to me that is the American Dream. 

I don't believe you are a bad human being, and that fact that you are in law school is impressive and I wish you well.  It's the "pile on" that you participate in that I disapprove of.  And %95 percent of the negative crap on the internet about our business is just false.  And that same %95 is the amount of honest, hard working, good people that are in this business and have been in this business.  And if your are as educated as you say then you know there is always %2-%5  of swing in any direction about anything that bucks a trend.  There have been bad managers and I'm sure in the future their will be one every now and then but as a whole it's pretty fair.  But when you deal with the number of people that have been in our business %95 good versus %5 not so good that's fair. 

And I'll always stand up for this business because I love it, I love the people, I love the product, and it's changed my life for the good.  And I can't wait to give someone else who walks in my door soon the same opportunity. 

To Everybody.... Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!!

What I'm doing is completely legit and what you're doing is not. That case proves that owners are completely liable for anyone who steals from or scams them. Anyone of your colleagues (promoting owners, managers, your own promotions) can blow out with  your merch/money at anytime and you'll lose in court because the contract between you and colleague is unenforceable.

Prove me wrong.

If these reports can make more people aware of what the business truly involves when they're dealing with a dishonest office manager then I say it's fair game. The dishonest ones deserve to go out of business. 

Papa, Papa, Papa. Still fakin' it till you're makin' it? This thread will go on LONG after you're gone.

What you do is illegal it's called slander.  You get away with it because you don't use  your real name.  Put your legal name on here and I'm sure a manager would be more than happy to sue you.  It's up to a $15,000 fine and jail time possible.  It's slander if it's proven to be untrue.  And most of what you post is all crap. 

I agree that the dishonest ones do deserve to go out of business.  But what you post has nothing to do with anyone in the learning program.  It's us managers that get the short end.  And the way we minimize that is no one gets a ton of product until they've proven that they are trust worthy. In my time which is over 6 years I've never had anyone get off with more then a $150 in product.  And in over six years I've had less then 10 people total blow-out with product. 

So then you come back with well you got screwed from those 10 people.  Yeah, but what about the other 30 people that I've put into their own offices.  The amount of money I've got from those raises paid for those idiots after one week.  So sure you are right I got screwed, but I'd make that trade every day for the rest of my life.  Just to put that into numbers.  I've spent about $3.20 a week for about $1500.00 a week.  That's a %469 return, I WIN!! 

 

Man I've never done those numbers, that even gets me motivated!! 

 

And just for the other internet terrorist, Rio, here’s my two cents on your worthless 2 line rebuttal.  I faked it till I made it in training.  I've been out of training for over 6 years and I believe I've done well for myself.  And you, well most of us managers know what you are doing.  I'll see you next time I fill up my gas tank.  I'll even tip you for washing my windshield.

 

And as always good luck, happy new year, and best wishes. 

Like I said I'm just an outside observer, I conclude that it IS a scam that you can make a lot of money off of. Owners are just too brainwashed and dishonest to admit it. PERIOD

Owners can now post their brainwashed talking points.

First off the internet is not governed. Secondly, short of calling you names I have posted NOTHING slanderous. All I did was ask about a court case which you simply dismissed as BS.

You're only being hypocritical by complaining about posters using not their legal names because you don't use yours. You can't scare people into believing that posting FACTS and OPINIONS in an online forum is slander because it simply isn't true. Nice try though!

I'm also glad to hear you admit that these posts and pile ones have at least put some offices out of business. What's the point of getting "some new ammo" as you put it when the old ammo works just fine.

As I said before I'm just an outside observer but based on the court case and your answers my overall conclusion is that Scentura creations IS a scam that you CAN make a lot of money off of. Owners just get are just too brainwashed and blinded by greed to admit the truth. PERIOD

Unbelievable. Only ten people have blown out from your operation in six years, Papa? Hmmmmm... since you hire 20 people a week and do nothing but fuck with them and steal, after six years or seventy two months, that would mean you now employ five thousand seven hundred and fifty of the stupidest morons on the planet.

And as far as your 'slander' claims are concerned, well, sir, thank you so much for confirming your absolute levels of total ignorance as far as the law works. That comment alone really dropped any credibility you might have had.

Note to F Scentura: Papa's getting desperate. He's up to 99% bullshit now and has no where else to go. He will be gone soon from this forum, and then we can start picking apart the next moron who takes his place.

Need a hug Papa?     

 

Rio Rio Rio, poor boy.  At least Mr. Terrorist sounds educated when he posts.  I'm papa maroon now??  And you vent and rant with cuss words sounding like the biggest idiot of them all.  But lets have fun with this one.........

I've heard of selective hearing before, but never selective reading before.  I said I've had 10ppl blow out "with product".  On a average %80 of the people we select blow-out within 3 days.  And the other %15 blow-out their first 3 weeks.  Then there are the %5 that get into staff or management positions. 

And look up slander laws they do exist to protect businesses and corporations from false accusations.  And then you steal my line... "need a hug"   Come on man. 

Now Mr. Terrorist, the internet is governed now days.  All you have to do is turn on the news and you'll hear about people going to jail over internet crap every day.  I was just watching MSN the other day and a 14 year old girl got arrested in Illinois for bashing another little girl in her high school all over the internet in chat rooms and other websites.  And some other kids as well because a kid committed suicide over rumors that started on the internet.  They'll be getting jail time. 

Now I do complain about posters not using their real names cause it's legit.  Use them and we'll see what happens.  And my name is on this site a few times I choose to not use it so I can be a example of success in this business rather than just another regional manager. 

And as far as your ammo it won't work as long as there are people like me that know the difference between truth and BS.  I can pile on and copy and paste as well as you.  And your ammo only works with weak ass managers.  Because when I opened over six years ago within my first 3 weeks being up and running I had idiots blowing out my office with this crap.  But then you have some people arrested and start doing some business and you get strong fast.  My first year up and running wasn't peaches and cream, but now I barely work at all and I live a cush lifestyle. 

And I'm glad you admit that you are a outsider.  Because anyone who knows anything about direct sales knows the truth.  And in your opinion it's a scam.  In my opinion it's the greatest opportunity around.  Is Mary Kay a scam?  Is AVON a scam?  Is Amway a scam?  Is Priamerica a scam?  They are all large commercial direct sales companies.  But our opportunity is better then there's because there is no investment, no fee's, and no one ever has to buy anything.  But I do respect you Mr. Terrorist.

However Rio Rio Rio.  You my friend are worse then the terrorist that pile on.  You are a uneducated worthless member of our society.  You my friend give America a bad name.  Your grammar is terrible, and i'm just a H.S. graduate so mine is bad, but you can't complete a proper sentence.  You know nothing of what you speak of.  You never have facts backing anything you say.  You just spill diarrhea out of your mouth or in this case fingers.  You will always live in prosperity and breed and prosperity and unless you reproduce a human that wants change you'll always give your family a bad name.  I feel bad just telling you who you are.  I will pray for you. 

So on goes:  Some will  Some won't  So what

Good luck and best wishes. 

Slander is in the form of public speaking. Typing in an online forum would be subject to Libel laws. Criminal libel is rare in the United States and would never hold up in this case because it’s mostly facts and opinions. Again I’d like to ask what I’ve said that would constitute Libel because I haven’t said anything short of some petty insults that may have hurt your feelings. So go cry in the corner because you have nothing on me.

 

You already admitted that these posts and pile ons have put people out of business now you’re saying they won’t work. It would be nice if you could be a little more consistent you big dummy.

 

I worked for Primerica for a while during my undergrad and their operation is nothing like Scentura’s. They were at least up front and told me from the get go that they were “like a pyramid scheme.” Whereas you’re too cowardly to admit that.

 

I see you bashing other posters and it just shows how horrible of a person you are. You jump to conclusions about people like how you assume Rio works at a gas station and that I was unemployed. Then you insulted the pregnant girl from Houston and her family. I also saw how you call managers that don’t make it weak so you even insult your fellow owners when they don’t make it.

 

You don’t scare anyone with your threats because no court anywhere will ever rule in favor of you jerkoffs. I stand firm on my assertion that you’re a total pussy for not using your legal name especially when you’re trying to represent your company. My legal name is Lionel Cosgrove sue me! Come on you weak piece of sh*t! I’m waiting……..

 

 

Alright everybody we've got judge wapner here!!  Here I go again:

It's not a matter of whether I have something on "you."  The matter is you're right it's about facts and opinions.  You always blast away with your opinions saying they're facts.  You're saying it won't stand up in court, I'm saying it's against the law.  So I'm right??  Yes!!

Next I said you're BS pile-ons won't work for any person that has any drive and determination.  Every office that's been open for at least 6 months gets blasted with the same shit from blow-outs.  But it's always the same crap.  1. The person usually made it less then 3 full days.  2.  They bitch about money or sales which we are very direct in the interview process.  3.  They have no understanding of direct sales. 

Then as far as your testimonial about working for Primerica that's crap, no legit business would make claims about being "like a pyramid scheme."  Maybe you don't know the definition of "pyramid scheme" well here you are:

A fraudulent moneymaking scheme in which people are recruited to make payments to others above them in a hierarchy while expecting to receive payments from people recruited below them. Eventually the number of new recruits fails to sustain the payment structure, and the scheme collapses

 

So why would any business make that claim that doesn't make any sense. First of all we are not fraudulent, there is no "scheme", we never accept investments or payments of anything, and Scentura has been around for 36 years!!!!!!! 

 

You are correct I do bash Internet Terrorist, like yourself IDIOT, so then the questions becomes why?  Because you stand up for what you believe in.  So if my bashing others offends you I'm sorry I'll send you some kleenex!  I personally won't sue you because then I wouldn't have the pleasure of tearing your bull shit posts up.  But if you do want someone to sue you " Lionel"  or otherwise Mr. Terrorist  put your phone number and address on here and I'm sure you'll be contacted sooner then later with a case number on it telling you to lawyer up.  I prefer to remain anonymous it's more of hassle then fun then for me.  The 4 or 5 hours a week I spend killing you guys is a blast. 

 

So on goes I'll talk to you all sooner then later.  Owners keep rockin, and blow-outs keep lookin for work, and Internet terrorist well..... you'll die sooner then later.  But Scentura will LIVE

 

Good Luck and Best wishes. 

 

Man, I've said this over and over.  I never met people with selective reading before.  The real scam is the people that post what I call is the pile on.  But as always I'll  answer your questions.  

Alright Mr. Terrorist here you are.  Point 1, 2, and 4 are the same point.  But I'll clarify for you.  I've been in the business for 6 years.  Ran my OWN office for over 2 years, almost 3.  And I've been the office manager now for a Divisional Manager for over 2 years.  And at one point I was a Exec. Manager here where all I did was satellites for about 6 months.  So by definition I'm not a regional manager, however I ran the top office in 2009 from Jan 1 through June 1 and we finished 3rd for the whole calendar year.   

I don't use my legal name because I'm not interested in dealing with you internet terrorist on my personal time.  And if you don't think there are idiots like yourself out there that stock people you're wrong.  I use to use my full first and last name in all my meetings until I had a distributor knock on my door once asking if he could get some product.  The problem I had was I don't give my address to anyone ever.  He found it on the internet.  I'm not interested in having weird shit like that ever happen again.  It's more of a hassle then fun.  And I do this for Fun!!

I'm not backing off the slander thing at all, you all just switched to attacking me personally so I returened the BS instead of arguing the opinions vs the truth always known as the facts.  The bottom line is there are slander laws and libel laws that protect business from being bashed on if the statements are proven to be untrue.  I've personally had people arrested at my office for slander and they were ticked fined and one guy spent 2 days in jail for it.  And any person can sue for slander which I believe is up to 10 or 15 thousand dollars in damages.  If you have the proof that they used untrue material in the slander or libel statements and you can show proof that it harmed your business.  So in our business it's easy as long as you know who it is.  Because if they blow-out one person that one person will produce a min amount of money in training, and at least a 10 thousand dollar a year raise for every year that office is up and running.  And that's not including the Profit Sharing.  Now I am not a expert on any of this  but I know that's the truth. 

And your Primerica story is still wrong.  I know I've got unlimited info on Primerica.  They are a group for Citi Bank and 4 years ago they were #1 world wide as far as assets.  They tanked the last 2 years though.  My mother worked for them for 7 years and recruited 2 of my family members.  They never made a statement that they "were like a pyramid scheme"  pyramid scheme's are illegal!!!  Don't you understand that.  They made claims about being the best multi level company.  And as far as their "portions of new person sales"  it gets divided up to 6 generations.  Now I don't know this for a fact because I haven't ever reached this point in my career here but I believe ours gets paid out to 4 generations.  Now the difference in us and Primerica is that you don't have to buy anything.  There is no investment.  There are  no fees.  That's why we are not multi-level.  At Primerica, Avon, Marykay, Amway, and all the other commercial direct sales companies they have fees and investments and what not.  And if my info is correct the only one of the companies that was ever "investigated" about being a pyramid is Amway.  We've been around for over 35 years!! You figure it out!  2+2= 4 my friend.  That's the facts. 

Next you say I refuse to believe.  No I believe the facts that are in front of me.  I don't believe that guy was there for 4 months and never made any money.  How and why did he stay around if that was the case.  Just use common sense.  How could someone afford to go 4 months with no money its impossible.  I'd say that %80 of the people that are here after their first Friday that blow-out because they don't ever see the big picture and they don't believe they'll be able to pay their bills during the 90 days of training.  Yet every second interview I've ever done I've said exactly the same thing, the income in the learning program is meager!!  And during training there is no set salary.  You don't qualify for Performance Bonuses till your 2nd week.  And most of those people don't make it past 3 full days yet alone through their 2nd week.  And I've said this over and over and over in these post anyone who has been here 3 full weeks, that's on satellites and does Friday will make at least $350 a week.  I'd bet any amount that the average manager running their own office right now averaged well over 300 a week during training.  If I had to go through training again I'd make over $500 a week.  Once I "got"  this business I averaged 15-25 transactions a day.  And that was all Business to Business.  I've done more in a week then some offices do.  With my best week being 171 myself.  That week I made over $1300 just doing the sales.  My best days here I've made over $400 and thats several times in the field.  Now I've been in the office now for a few years my best day running my own office I made $1800 in a day.  That's why I run a office.  Last week my office did about 600 and I didn't sell a single bottle.  But I'm not above this business, if I had to or if I wanted to I could go out today and still make $100 in the field.  Any office manager that has financial problems are self induced.  You have a unlimited supply of product in this business meaning a unlimited income in this business.  But you're only gonna make so much in the field.  And you'll only make so much running a office, now maybe that's $350,000 a year but it's still limited.  But with the opportunity to promote outside offices it's unlimited. 

So yes I refuse to believe BS that you post!!  And you yourself even admitted that the "court ruling" crap that you'll post is crap.  All it says is that myself, a office manager, or Scentura, a supplier, are the only ones who can get screwed!

So there you go Mr. Terrorist, aka Lionel!  So I'll laugh more and more all the way to the bank while you still try and make false statements and insult myself and other office managers.  You are smart thought I'll give you that. 

So if this is extra credit how are you graded?  I'm interested.  Are you getting a good grade? 

Anyways, good luck to all Best Wishes to all

 

You stated:

"I've personally had people arrested at my office for slander and they were ticked fined and one guy spent 2 days in jail for it."

Oh, really?

You can't have anybody arrested for 'slander', Papa. You can't pick up the phone to the Police and tell them 'somebody's saying bad things about me', and then they go out and arrest them! My God, we'd all be in jail! It doesn't work that way. Slander is a civil case. You seem to realize that later in your post, and I find it interesting you haven't actually sued anybody for it. And I know why: The added scrutiny on your business would be murder.

Did you really have a couple of guys arrested at your office? I think you probably did. But it wasn't for 'slander'. You had two guys arrested because they came into your office to kick your little jell-o ass in.

Lol. I wonder why that happened.

Not praying for you. No best wishes. Hope you are out of business soon. 

Because I don't use my full name someone can't trust me.  Man you are so off your rocker here  Lionel aka Mr. Terrorist Cosgrov.  I don't hide my last name, I just don't use it.  What does someone coming in for a interview need my full name for? 

And slander is ILLEGAL!

And then you go on about your experince at Primerica.  I'm not saying you didn't work there, but there is no way anyone would make a claim about being "like I pyramid" understand this:  THEY ARE ILLEGAL!!!   Why would anyone make that claim that's cutting your own wrist.  It just wouldn't happen!  And then you say "Scentura places purposefully misleading ads"  That's just not true Scentura doesn't place any ads.  That's done by the manager.  And we've already discussed some managers are idiots!!  But as a whole the people in this business is good, and the business itself is GREAT!!

Is there a risk in consigning someone product?  Yeah sure it is, that's why you have to be smart as a owner!  Now if you do your job right you'll almost never have that happen.  In the calendar year of 2009 my office sold about 35,000 bottles.  I lost a total of 25 bottles to dishonest people.  So was there a risk, yeah but how about the reward!!  I'd take that risk for the rest of my life and I'd be able to retire by the time I'm 50 with millions in rewards!!!  Do the math

So my advice take a break, and maybe start a new habit so you aren't wasting your time.  But thanks for the entertainment!

Good luck and best wishes

Yes! In my book someone I do business with and especially someone I work for that will not disclose their full name is not someone I would trust. You're obviously too brainwashed to understand how honest legit businesses work.

Slander/Libel are a civil manner not a criminal manner! You're a fool to expect anyone to believe they can get arrested for it.

Pyramid schemes may be illegal but multi-level marketing companies are essentially a sanctioned form of a pyramid scheme in the US. So excuse me if a company I worked for 6 years ago claimed to be like a pyramid.

Like I said defending the misleading ads was a pointless and wasted effort. You keep digging yourself a deeper hole with every post. This time you admitted that managers, not Scentura are responsible for the misleading ads. So keep responding and proving my points. I'm not taking a break.

Bad luck & worst wishes to you Papa Buffoon.