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Report: #675561

Complaint Review: Scientific Wrestling - Utah Internet

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  • Reported By: Jeff G — Colorado USA
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  • Scientific Wrestling Internet United States of America

Scientific Wrestling Jake Shannon Company pays SEO company to have truthful information about the company and its founder buried in search engine results Utah, Internet

*General Comment: I waded through this and...

*General Comment: Comment on Jeff Goldstein's statements regarding Scientific Wrestling

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Jeff Goldstein - A Documented Defamatory & Libelous Track Record

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Scientific Wrestling and its founder, Jake Shannon, have engaged in a number of dubious online activities, from "certifications" for sham wrestling instruction to certification for hypnotism / hypnotherapy. Shannon has, over the course of several years, set up a number of internet companies, billing himself as everything from an autodidact and Human Rights investigator to an expert in Meta-Cognition, Mnemonics, and Expertise Acquisition.

For years, Jake Shannon and Scientific Wrestling kept libelous material about his competitors high in search engine results; he began rewriting the material to avoid legal action, but the damage had already been done. Shannon's entire business -- and in fact his entire supposed expertise in catch wrestling and other areas -- is built on shady and unscrupulous internet marketing strategems.

About a year back, I wrote a piece that tied together all Shannon's and Scientific Wrestling's related businesses, including the fact that Scientific Wrestling's head of certification had been found to have completely invented his background and training. That piece was frequently referenced and placed high in Google search results, thanks in large part to the site's popularity.

Furthermore, I brought to light, in additional postings, Shannon's peddling of other products -- and the way he was stringing together multiple websites and backfeeding links in order to create a web presence that made his various companies look legitimate. You can read more about that here: http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=16887

Recently -- and this is really the source of this complaint -- I was alerted that Jake Shannon had paid an outside search engine optimization company to have my writings about his companies and their unscrupulous business practices buried in search engine results. That is, he was paying to have the truth buried. Often this is accomplished by what is called "black hat" operations -- from posting privileged info on a site surreptitiously (either by hacking the code, or through old comment forms, etc.) and then reporting that site for violations, to other unsavory means of creating a violation, then reporting that same violation to the search engines in order to punish the site you are hoping to devalue in the search results.

Jake Shannon paid a company called Ethane Technologies, whom he contracted through Elance (a freelancer site), to devalue links to accurate information and accounting about his various "businesses" so as to keep consumers from finding out about his companies, how they operate, and how dishonest have been his business practices.

The bottom line is this: Scientific Wrestling and Jake Shannon don't want consumers to know that Mr Shannon has no real training in any of the things he sells; that he has employed admitted frauds to hand out certifications that he sells; that he has built his entire business front on dishonest internet marketing and dubious claims to expertise he does not possess; and that he is now paying search engine optimization companies to have the facts about all of this buried from public view.

Jake Shannon is a modern-day snake oil salesman. Scientific Wrestling was built on lies and the sabotaging of legitimate competitors. That Jake Shannon is willing to pay to keep you from knowing the truth about him should tell you all you need to know about both is character and his organization(s) legitimacy -- from his claims to make you into a world class "scientific wrestler" to his claims that he can help you achieve a better orgasm, or control people with your minds.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/27/2010 11:06 AM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/scientific-wrestling/internet/scientific-wrestling-jake-shannon-company-pays-seo-company-to-have-truthful-information-ab-675561. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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1Employee/Owner

#3 General Comment

I waded through this and...

AUTHOR: Trenace - (United States of America)

POSTED: Monday, August 15, 2011

The rebuttal by Jake Shannon is very long and appears to have a great amount of material, and so at first glance it appears very impressive and conclusive.

I waded through all of it including all of the links because I intended and still fully intend to purchase materials from either of the companies involved, which would be either Jake Shannon's company or the company he criticizes. (The original report was not from that company, but from an independent reviewer.) Because this took a lot of time, I'd like to save others the time if they don't have it.

To summarize: The original report claimed Jake Shannon and Scientific Wrestling use attacks and misrepresentation to advances themselves.

In the rebuttal, Jake Shannon used attacks and misrepresentation to advance himself, to the extreme. And nowhere was there any disproof of the specific allegations of misrepresentation or of specific actions.

In following the links, this was actually the most vile and thorough character assassination I've ever seen.

The original report is certainly verified by the rebuttal: Jake Shannon and Scientific Wrestling do use vicious personal attack as their mode of operation. I am disgusted and will never deal with that company.

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#2 General Comment

Comment on Jeff Goldstein's statements regarding Scientific Wrestling

AUTHOR: Anonymous Straight Shooter - (United States of America)

POSTED: Friday, March 04, 2011

Let me just say that I don't understand..



I have been a martial artist for going on thirty years now. I began my involvement as a student of Goju-Ryu Karate, and traditional Kodukan Judo. Over years of steady involvement in martial arts two things have happened;



The first being that I have had the chance, and even sought out various disciplines over the years (Russian Sambo, Catch Wrestling, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Western Boxing, and Kickboxing etc.) to improve my own ability and become what I see as a complete martial artist (its a journey not a destination). That has given me the ability to view any specific style of martial art, and immediately assess whether or not that art has something to offer me in regards to effectiveness.



The second, is given my "time in service" so to speak, I can smell a fraudulent fighter by what I see and what I hear from quite a way off.



I can't speak for Mr. Shannon, as I do not know him personally. I can however, attest to the legitimacy of Billy Robinson, Karl Gotch, Erik Paulson, Josh Barnett, Kazushi Sakuraba, (among many others) and the system of Catch As Catch Can (CACC) wrestling as a whole. From what I've seen on the Scientific Wrestling website and the many videos available, Mr. Shannon has not misrepresented himself, or the art of "Catch Wrestling" in any way. I know these techniques, and they are taught and explained correctly from everything I've seen.







I'm not an expert on many things, but one thing I know is fighting. So how is then someone can acquire a deep understanding of an art, have the ability to teach that art, and have the ability to put into practice the things being taught against legitimate fighters if one has had no training as you stated? This is how....You can't! It is far more likely that Mr. Shannon’s claims in regards to his Scientific Wrestling school and certification are not only real, but a worthwhile investment for someone seeking to add an additional style to their martial arts resume or learn as a beginner! Not to mention there simply far too many experienced, high level martial artists from all disciplines that have no problem with testifying to their satisfaction with Mr. Shannon, Billy Robinson, and the Scientific Wrestling certification.







So why then would someone go to such great lengths to debunk someone and something that are legitimate as Mr. Goldstein has done? I don't understand... Did you fail a Scientific Wrestling Cert or something Mr. Goldstein? This seems much more like a malicious attack for personal reasons, other than concern for those who would be affected by enrolling in martial arts classes with a fraudulent instructor.







I hope only to shed a little truth on this ridiculous article before these statements and accusations are taken seriously by some poor person looking to learn CACC. I'm sure you are in good hands with both Billy Robinson, and Jake Shannon regardless of what Mr. Goldstein’s motivation is in telling you otherwise!




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#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Jeff Goldstein - A Documented Defamatory & Libelous Track Record

AUTHOR: Rebuttal - (United States of America)

POSTED: Thursday, March 03, 2011

The person that has posted this report, "Jeff G", is a well-known harasser and defamer of people's reputations online. For more from others that have had trouble with him, here's a very long
page dedicated to Goldstein and his online behavior:

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/002902.html

He's also listed here:

http://blogintegrityblogspotcom.blogspot.com/2006/05/goldstein-just-another-p***k-in-hall.html

and here's more about his reputation:

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/2731.html

and here an attorney correctly identifies his libelous nature:

http://loosetncanon.blogspot.com/2010/09/protein-wisdoms-jeff-goldstein-commits.html

Additionally, here's how constitutional law and civil rights litigator and contributing writer at Salon (who was harassed by Goldstein too) describes Goldstein's blog as:

"a venue which itself is devoted to some of the most vile, deranged and psychosexually disturbed commentary that can be found on the Internet." http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/07/prominent-right-wing-blogger-today.html

And another attorney notes that "JeffG"'s blog

"writing in a way that attracts people who argue ad hominem and only ad hominem" http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2010/03/shorter-jeff-goldstein

In the link above, supposedly even an old professor of Goldstein's is trying to distance himself from him. As of now, "JeffG" has been banned from a few different martial arts forums for lies and uncivility, and
now I am his latest target. :(

Sadly, Goldstein seems to be on a self destructive path but what scares me is that he seems determined to take as many with him as possible:

http://www.wasuvi.com/?p=2545

Granted he has admitted to taking Klonopin (aka Clonazepam) which has side-effects of cognitive impairment, irritability, aggression, & even psychosis (see https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Clonazepam#Side-effects).

Anyway, read the comments here to see more of how Jeff Goldstein:

http://www.balloon-juice.com/2006/03/21/bad-form/

and:

http://www.eschatonblog.com/2006/03/jeff-goldstein-explained.html

Anyway, Goldstein not only disparages me but he also denigrates Karl Gotch, Billy Robinson, and others in his attempt to prop up his newest crony, the "never-wrestled competitively" self-appointed grappling "authority" Tony Cecchine.

Anyway, for him to knock truly great men that ACTUALLY WRESTLED (Karl placed in the 1948 Olympics and, in Billy's case, he trained one of the greatest MMA athletes Kazushi Sakuraba!!!!) gets me really steamed. Cecchine or Goldstein have never wrestled and all the points I raised back in 2003 here:

http://www.scientificwrestling.com/public/93.cfm?sd=2

...are truer than ever.

For those of you who weren't interested in CACC back then, it really was a horrible time. You couldn't even call yourself a "catch wrestler" without endless flame wars and character assassinations by Tony (under fake aliases as a law enforcement officer testifies to knowledge of here http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1767073&postcount=232) and his cronies. What is so hypocritical is that using fake names like Cecchine did is called "sockpuppetry" (see https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sockpuppet_%28Internet%29) and the hypocritical Goldstein hasn't gone after Cecchine for doing this same thing!

Tony is famous for getting other people to post for him (or he simply posts under false usernames himself), I know, I saw how is operation worked from the inside (as did others). I heard him speak ill of my friend Erik Paulson first hand, saying how "loose" and "wrong" his technique is when Erik actually was a middleweight champion in MMA! Meanwhile Cecchine (and Goldstein for that matter) himself has NEVER DONE ANYTHING, BUT TALK. Most certainly not wrestle competitively.

Anyway, I've tried to ignore this as much as possible since everything I've read about internet bullies and "trolls" says that they feed of the lies and conflict they create. With a wife and family, a radio show, writing books, and being very active within the Libertarian Party of Utah (I am currently the vice-chairman) I just don't have the time or energy to get distracted by Goldstein's smears. I really don't know why I get so mad really, most everyone I know re-assures me that all this about Goldstein is fairly self-evident but it still just makes me feel so mad that I have to defend myself from flat out lies, no matter if the source has a documented defamatory and libelous track record or not.

As this article makes clear:

http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/2011/02/17/google-vs-facebook-for-control-of-your-reputation/

...Google offers little recourse when someone has libeled you or behaved in a defamatory fashion online, as Jeff G has repeatedly done to me and others (again please see the complaints above). My rebuttal is simple, I merely did what google.com itself recommends when someone tries to defame you:

"Sometimes, you may not be able to get in touch with a site's webmaster, or they may refuse to take down the content in question... Instead, you can try to reduce its visibility in the search results by proactively publishing useful, positive information about yourself or your business. If you can get stuff that you want people to see to outperform the stuff you don't want them to see, you'll be able to reduce the amount of harm that that negative or embarrassing content can do to your reputation."

I am an honest man and the number of positive reviews from real and reputable people I have dwarf the work of Goldstein's smears. Anyone that knows me personally will tell you I am open to criticism and very civil in my dealings. However, my business is how I put food on the table for my wife and two small children and I don't have the money to file a libel case in Federal Court (since we don't live in the same state and google won't do anything to stop the libel except allow me to provide rebuttals like this). I don't expect anyone to defend me, I just thank you for taking the time to read this and weight the evidence.

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