Discover Card cancelled my 84 yr old mother West Valley City Utah

You ask "though my mother is not any of these,what would your excuses be for a person who was on life support,in a coma,unable to talk,or deaf?"

Well, I admit I do not know what we would do about a person in a coma or on life support, I do know that the deaf/or mute can call our company's TDD line. Telecommunications Device for the Deaf, I hear, are all the rage and have been for many years now. I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. For those who have trouble getting through to the TDD line, many go through "DEAF RELAY" where a TDD owner calls an operator who is using a TDD machine and the operator speaks on the regular phone line to a representative in our call center.

As for comas/life support...these situations almost always occur after lenghty illnesses and POAs have already been arranged well in advance. But I acknowledge that for situations that occur without warning, the verification process would hit a snag. I believe that if we can verify the attorney /or the notary (steps 1/2 in my last post) we might be willing to forego step 3 (personal contact) with a process called "SHOW ID". I will verify this on my next day at work and get back to you.

"SHOW ID" is where we ask a suspicious caller to take their state issued photo ID, military id, or valid passport and possibly a utility bill and SS card to a store that accepts Discover. We recommend Sears, as Discover Card began as a "sears" credit card and they are well versed in this procedure. However, ANY store that accepts Discover is okay as long as the person showing ID is not found to be an employee of that store or chain (again for security reasons...employees working together in collusion might "validate" a fake ID).

At the store, the merchant (store clerk) must call Discover Card and read off the information on the license or other accepted IDs. The Discover employee would note all of the information on the account and that would be the end of it. POA would be accepted. Again, I will confirm at work to be sure, but I am 99.9% sure right now this is the accurate process if a Cardholder is "said" to be in such a state.

Again, Clarence, we are not trying to make life miserable for people who are already in a horrible situation (ie: watching loved ones decline, etc.) but we ARE 100% trying to see that their situation is not WORSENED by helping someone with criminal intent (again, not you...) gain access to the account. And like I said, it is attempted (sometimes sucessfully, despite our best efforts!) EVERY SINGLE DAY.

To be honest, I am sorry that I (admittedly) allowed my initial responses to you to be colored by my own exasperation from a long work day. Dina was right when she suggested I come here to vent just like you did (do?). I am not too proud to admit that I get some relief from the stress of my workday by coming here and administering a little "tough love" to customers who have posted their own frustrations.

The reason I am bothering to post the above paragraph is that I really do hope you WILL call Discover when your mother is present with you and get this straightened out, if you haven't already. It would be a shame to allow her to be caught in the middle of all the squabbling we've ALL been doing.

I hope that the information in my posts (especially my more recent, less emotional posts!) has helped shed some light on why Discover does what it does....and that we aren't "out to get" anyone. We ARE, however, "out to get" criminals who try to manipulate our policies and procedures to gain unlawful access to the accounts of our members. Despite all the words between us, Clarence, I continue to maintain that we only have your mother's security in mind, and I am sorry if you feel we've been too stringent. Sometimes we can only agree to disagree.

Dina....in regards to my statement that you are wrong and I DONT spend a lot of time here...
you say " What a hoot! And what a lie. You must think all these people are too stupid to see all your blatherings, not only in this post but many, many others?"

First, if they do notice my many postings, they will notice YOU quite a bit too. Being hypocritical again, are we? Must be your favorite hobby.

Second, even you acknowledge the full time job I have working on a computer and on the phone. So surely someone with even HALF of your questionable intelligence quotient would realize that I MUST be able to type EXTREMELY fast.

Court reporter fast, in fact. So what might seem lengthy and time consuming to you, is, I assure you, NOT. I spend less time on the internet TOTAL (and that includes my email and my other surfing habits!) than most people spend in front of the idiot box each day.

Enough said.

those were not just my phone numbers but check your own records and the 806 area code number is my mothers home.your skip trace story is another lie,cause if it had been done then you would have found her addy on n.frankford in lubbock instead of the 46th st addy you have in your records.

so more lies.

though my mother is not any of these,what would your excuses be for a person who was on life support,in a coma,unable to talk,or deaf?this should be good as she is real good at using examples of this,that,and the other.and you also state that discover did not know she wasnt at home.WRONG!! customer service and security were advised of this when i talked to them about sending the poa.more lies from K.and as far as me giving you a phone number on her, it would be the nursing home(which you and discover could verify as legit and they could verify that you were talking to my mother as they would be holding the phone for her. as was stated in a earlier post by robert i think. so shot ya down again.

Hey, boys and girls! I think we hurt poor little "K"'s feelers! Bah-waaah!

Serves you right you dumb dora. Your (continuous) posts to people under the osmosis of it being that you want to ensure "people get both sides" is ridiculous. You just want to try and be right, and in a righteous and holier-than-thou manner. Well, just because you blah, blah, blah doesn't make you right; just because you think you are, doesn't make you right. Very few people in these posts think you're right, and further, after they witness your nonsense, they don't care.

You make personal attacks on people then wonder why they have an attitude with and back at you. You make assumptions just to try and make yourself feel better and try to justify your reasons. Sorry, it's not working. You berate people for being human, yet you want people to understand why, after 8 hours on a helpdesk YOU might get a little cranky??? And then you come in here and vent your anger and frustration on some poor folks who are just trying to vent a little themselves? They are venting here because they feel they have been WRONGED! You are in here just to try and piss everyone you can the hell off! If you have advice to how to HELP them, fine; do so, but keep your attitude to yourself they don't need to be harangued and condemned yet further by YOU. You criticize others because they don't spell things right, yet look at your own posts! Me a-thinks you a-need summore edification yerself.

You bring things into the posts that have no bearing on what the real issues are, then criticize others (like little ol' me for instance) for doing the same thing you just did! Make a valid point based on the thread itself you said, yet you post stuff like, I've been happily married for 12 years, thank you very much. My spouse gets a kick out of reading the posts. I'm glad we can amuse Mr. K, and I'm glad you two have found each other, but it really has no bearing on the original post.

In one of your (frightfully many) posts, you state, I have every right to be here, sweetie, it's an open forum! And I don't spend much time here.. What a hoot! And what a lie. You must think all these people are too stupid to see all your blatherings, not only in this post but many, many others? Wrong again. You are just a hateful person, living a hateful life, and trying to create hate and discontent among all those who you feel do not share your same opinion and/or vision.

And yes, I'm quite glad you got the hint on my being vicious toward you. I've just been giving back what you dish out. If you can't take it, then that's your problem, honey, not mine. You need to get a life, scumbag, and either help others in this forum with concise, helpful advice or shut the * F * up. You might think you're astute and awesome, but the rest of us, the MAJORITY, think you're full of crap and full of yourself which in your case is basically the same thing.

And for all those less-than-fortunate folks out there who might still have DIScover cards: my advice to you still stands cut your card up into itty-bitty pieces, mail the pieces back to DIScover along with a signed letter saying your want your account CLOSED IMMEDIATELY, and be sure to return-receipt the letter. There are lots of good customer-oriented credit card companies out there who would LOVE to have your business and quite a few who will give you better rates, not to mention better service, than those cranky old DIScover card idiots er, I mean people.

Good luck!

Clarence...your last post stated the following:
"again i will state that no one ever asked for a phone number on my mother either by mail or phone.so Ks excuse of trying to verify the poa by contacting my mother is full of holes as all of her excuses.cause they knew before they called her home phone that she wasnt there"

Again, I WILL STATE that we would not ask YOU for a valid contact point for the reasons mentioned in my last post.

And NO we didn't "know before they called her home phone that she wasn't there". What we KNEW was what you (a potential criminal) TOLD us about your "mother."

What if you weren't really her son, but a criminal? How could we reasonably call any (POTENTIAL criminal [again, no libel here, I am not accusing you of anything...ALL POAs are handled this way]) purported "agent" and then accept what they tell us as fact without checking the true source (the cardmember...your mother!)

Why should we accept that the phone number or address that you give us is legitimate? Sure, YOU know you're not out to defraud, but WE don't. So while an honest person might look at our processes and deem them ridiculous or unnecessary, I've got $31 million dollars of averted fraud (and this is just the average for ONE TINLY LITTLE MONTH!) that says they aren't.

*************
As for the rest of YOUR "foul mouthed" post, I only have this to say:

While I may not always have reacted to your angry criticisms of Discover Card with total kindness (hey, I'm human, and to some extent any employee who likes their job sometimes mixes up an attack aimed at a company with an attack aimed at them personally and therefore that employee [in this case, me] might give back anger in return) your last post just proves that although you are likely somewhere in the age range of 44 to 66 years old, you are quite a rude, mean, vicious little "child" in your mentality. Why do I say that?

Because you are continually snide. Examples:
"well i see the foul mouthed and insenitive K"
and".so more lies by discovers little flunky(K)"
and "a unhuman type like K. and if she has been married for 12 yrs then it is a good chance that it is a D/s relationship. "

Please don't insult people with your pseudo, "I'm a big hearted Christian" comments like:
"please say a prayer for K as she needs all the help she can get." Because, sir, making all of the previous statements proves you are a hypocritical sinner who should be ashamed of himself. What blasphemy! Asking people to pray for me when you are speaking of me in such a rude way? I make no claims here to be a religious sort of person, and I certainly won't in one breath be snide to you (such as when I sneer at you for not being able to comprehend the things you read) and then turn around and act all saintly and ask people to pray for you. That makes you slimier than every slick, sick religious figure I've heard of...and considering the current crisis in Catholocism, that says a lot!

Everybody say AMEN! (For the reading comprehension impaired, this is a little tongue in cheek humor from a person who would never say the things that Clarence and Kate have said in one breath and then get all "holier than thou" in the next breath. My spirituality is none of anybody's business, and although I acknowledge freedom of speech, it has no place on this board.

I had the lucky turn of being in a meeting at work today. Because many of us were from different departments and didn't know each other, the facilitator of the meeting did what is called an "ice breaker" where people say who they are and what their job function is. I was pleased to find our POA expert was present, so during a break in the meeting I asked exactly why an account might be closed in regards to the POA submission/acceptance process.

Here's what our expert said:

1. When we receive a POA, we do the following:
a. If the envelope it was received in or the fax header indicates attorney involvement (such as a law firm return address or fax header states the sender is a firm) we use public records to determine if the law firm exists and is still in operation (as in not defunct...reason being a previous employee of a closed, sold, or retired firm could easily snatch letterhead or what have you on the way out.) This is simple and takes less than 10 minutes.

2. If forms appear to have been picked up from an office supply store (a Do-it-yourself POA) with no legal personnel involvement they MUST be notarized. We then verify the notary is logged and their position is in good standing (up to date on all the procedures required to continue as a notary.) This too is simple.

3. If the POA passes scrutiny from step 1 or 2 (whichever applies) then we attempt to make contact WITH OUR CARDMEMBER (not the person who is to become POA!!).

4. If we cannot contact that person, we do standard skip trace procedures to see if we can locate them (credit file, phone directories...) CLARENCE, READ THIS PART CAREFULLY: We do not call the POA "applicant" (YOU, in this case) because IF the applicant is simply a criminal trying to take over the account (and NO that is not an accusation, just a statement of our reasoning!) then they could give us a phone number and address belonging to ANOTHER PARTY INVOLVED IN THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.

HOWEVER!!!! That doesn't mean you are left without options or recourse. Keep reading...
5. If we cannot contact our true Cardholder VIA skip tracing techniques, we do close the account and send a letter that states:
1. We have received a POA appointing (Clarence, in this case)as your "attorney in fact" but have been unsuccessful contacting you (As in YOU the CARDMEMBER, not the potential POA).

2. Since we Haven't been able to reach you DIRECTLY (again, not trying to reach the "attorney in fact") for SECURITY purposes we've decided to close the account.

3. This letter goes on to state that the party named as AGENT can obtain info and make payments (so we are still open to communicate with you, Clarence)as well as dispute invalid activity or change addresses.

4. The letter closes with a notice all creditors are required to use. It states: The Federal Equal Credit Opportunity Act, that creditors cannot discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex, marital status, age (PROVIDED THAT APPLICANT HAS THE CAPACITY TO ENTER INTO A BINDING CONTRACT); because all or part of the applicant's income derives from any public assistance program; or because the applicant has in good faith exercided any right under the Consumer Credit Protection Act. The Federal agency which administers compliance with this law concerning Discover Bank, the issuer of Discover Card, is the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (it goes on to list an address for this entity)

Then the letter closes with a message to Washington residents which is very similar to the info of the Federal Equal Credit Opportunity Act. (Just a recap because they have a STATE law, not just the blanket federal law.

*********
Clarence, the letter is very clear. By your previous posts, this sounds like the letter you received. The letter does not state that we have been unable to reach you (Cardholder) by phone. It states only that we've been unable to reach the cardholder.

I understand why you would be upset to receive the letter, especially since you've been so willing to provide us with YOUR phone numbers. And while that would seem (to you) to be sufficient, it is not, for the reasons listed above. HOWEVER, I do agree with you that there would have been no harm in our company calling to simply tell you the paperwork has been received. HOWEVER even if we had called you to tell you that, we would not have discussed the fact that we couldn't reach your mother. This is due to the possibility (as stated above) that we might be talking to someone with criminal intent (again, I am not saying you have such intent.) While you may not agree with those policies, they are there for your mother's protection, and I really don't see how you can argue about that. I mean, I can see where it might be inconvenient to call us WITH YOUR MOTHER PRESENT AND ABLE TO TALK TO US, but it is not an unreasonable request on our part.
*************

pat,mt mom went into the hosp in deco2 and had surgury on her spine.infeb 03 i moved her to a nursing/rehab center.she did well and so she went to a asst living home in aug of 03.till she went into the asst living,her brother who also lived in lubbock was taking care of her bills,etc as he was 2nd poa.her mail was still going to her house and he would pick it up.about oct of03 she was able to start taking care of her finaces,etc.she fell on the 29th of dec and broke her left arm.after this she started losing feeling in both arms and it got worse to where she could not feed herself,etc. her brother passed away on 23rd of jan.her sis tried to do her stuff in lubbock but at her age and poor conition she couldnt handle it.so i had to take over and had no problems with any of her credit cards except discover.she had been using another card for her meds but when i read the cash back from discover i decided to use it and it would help on her med expenses. WRONG CHOICE!and in answer to k about her being compendant when she did the poa,the attorney and doctors know was.she had not used this card i guess in a long time i guess,so dont know if she did are not update the card.and as far as reopening the acct,i wont have it on a gold plater.i just want people to know what type of co discover is.and not to depend on them for help.

pat,mt mom went into the hosp in deco2 and had surgury on her spine.infeb 03 i moved her to a nursing/rehab center.she did well and so she went to a asst living home in aug of 03.till she went into the asst living,her brother who also lived in lubbock was taking care of her bills,etc as he was 2nd poa.her mail was still going to her house and he would pick it up.about oct of03 she was able to start taking care of her finaces,etc.she fell on the 29th of dec and broke her left arm.after this she started losing feeling in both arms and it got worse to where she could not feed herself,etc. her brother passed away on 23rd of jan.her sis tried to do her stuff in lubbock but at her age and poor conition she couldnt handle it.so i had to take over and had no problems with any of her credit cards except discover.she had been using another card for her meds but when i read the cash back from discover i decided to use it and it would help on her med expenses. WRONG CHOICE!and in answer to k about her being compendant when she did the poa,the attorney and doctors know was.she had not used this card i guess in a long time i guess,so dont know if she did are not update the card.and as far as reopening the acct,i wont have it on a gold plater.i just want people to know what type of co discover is.and not to depend on them for help.

pat,mt mom went into the hosp in deco2 and had surgury on her spine.infeb 03 i moved her to a nursing/rehab center.she did well and so she went to a asst living home in aug of 03.till she went into the asst living,her brother who also lived in lubbock was taking care of her bills,etc as he was 2nd poa.her mail was still going to her house and he would pick it up.about oct of03 she was able to start taking care of her finaces,etc.she fell on the 29th of dec and broke her left arm.after this she started losing feeling in both arms and it got worse to where she could not feed herself,etc. her brother passed away on 23rd of jan.her sis tried to do her stuff in lubbock but at her age and poor conition she couldnt handle it.so i had to take over and had no problems with any of her credit cards except discover.she had been using another card for her meds but when i read the cash back from discover i decided to use it and it would help on her med expenses. WRONG CHOICE!and in answer to k about her being compendant when she did the poa,the attorney and doctors know was.she had not used this card i guess in a long time i guess,so dont know if she did are not update the card.and as far as reopening the acct,i wont have it on a gold plater.i just want people to know what type of co discover is.and not to depend on them for help.

pat,mt mom went into the hosp in deco2 and had surgury on her spine.infeb 03 i moved her to a nursing/rehab center.she did well and so she went to a asst living home in aug of 03.till she went into the asst living,her brother who also lived in lubbock was taking care of her bills,etc as he was 2nd poa.her mail was still going to her house and he would pick it up.about oct of03 she was able to start taking care of her finaces,etc.she fell on the 29th of dec and broke her left arm.after this she started losing feeling in both arms and it got worse to where she could not feed herself,etc. her brother passed away on 23rd of jan.her sis tried to do her stuff in lubbock but at her age and poor conition she couldnt handle it.so i had to take over and had no problems with any of her credit cards except discover.she had been using another card for her meds but when i read the cash back from discover i decided to use it and it would help on her med expenses. WRONG CHOICE!and in answer to k about her being compendant when she did the poa,the attorney and doctors know was.she had not used this card i guess in a long time i guess,so dont know if she did are not update the card.and as far as reopening the acct,i wont have it on a gold plater.i just want people to know what type of co discover is.and not to depend on them for help.

Clarence,

First let me say that I am not trying to choose sides here. I am more interested in sincerely trying to help you resolve this situation with your mother (not grandmother as I had previously stated, sorry), as I think K was trying to do in here original rebuttal.

To that end, I have a question for you. When your mother moved into the nursing home, did she update her account with Discover with the new address and phone number? It is hard to determine that information from your posts. If she moved there almost 2 years ago, I would have thought she did. If she did, it would have been a simple matter for Discover to contact her there.

Again I say to you, have your mother contact Discover, try to get the account reopened and have you listed as the administrator.

Again, good luck to you.

well i see the foul mouthed and insenitive K is back.making more excuses for her screw ups and her failure to answer all things written,just what she wants to.again i will state that no one ever asked for a phone number on my mother either by mail or phone.so Ks excuse of trying to verify the poa by contacting my mother is full of holes as all of her excuses.cause they knew before they called her home phone that she wasnt there.so more lies by discovers little flunky(K).this is just their way of trying to make a 84 yr old,disabled,elderly retired banker look bad becaused they screwed up.your normal big brother tactics.and thank you who have posted in my mothers favor and im sorry you had to take the abuse from a unhuman type like K. and if she has been married for 12 yrs then it is a good chance that it is a D/s relationship. please say a prayer for K as she needs all the help she can get.

K,

I was hoping you would come back. I have been following this thread with some amusement, and have been content to just sit back and watch the exchanges between yourself, Kate and Clarence. But now I feel I must add my 2 cents worth.

To all, let me say that I am in no way affiliated with Discover, nor do I have a Discover account. I am merely an outside observer to this situation.

Now, having been a victim of identity theft myself, I have to say that I applaud Discover's, or any CC company for that matter, attempts to validate a POA before granting access to the requestor. It is completely proper for them to attempt to contact the original cardholder to verify the POA. I say keep it up.

And now to Dina. I read with curiosity all of the posts you made recently on the numerous Discover threads. You even went so far as to post on some very old reports. What did Discover do to you? I was unable to locate an original ROR with your name. Or are you a disgruntled ex-employee? If you have posted your own report, please direct us to it so we can see where you are coming from.

K, from your posts I can tell that you are in no way affected by the negativity projected by Kate and Dina, and I applaud your initial efforts to assist Clarence with his problem. Unfortunately, he acted like it was you personally who had closed his grandmothers account, despite your repeated posts that you have never accessed this particular account.

And finally to Clarence. I suggest you take K's advice and have your grandmother contact Discover regarding her account. Have her verify the POA and attempt to get the account reopened and list you as the administrator. Good luck to you.

Just in case anyone be truly confused, moot is indeed a word. In a legal environment it means to remain silent.
The word mute, used in the context that it was used in, means to be unrecognized.
As in - a person who makes a statement and then behaves in a way that completely contradicts their statement, renders that speech as unrecognized. Not truthful.

I am praying for K. Her venom and hate are a good example of what we need to work against in this world.

The idea that a human of this caliber (degree of mental capacity or moral quality) would be able to slip through the cracks at any company and be able to deal with the public is horrifying.

The further thought that she would be able to be put into a position, with her proven mentality of an abuser, where she is providing customer service is unbelievable.

Also interesting that she continues to post days after everyone else had obviously stopped posting.

I'm going to shut down the email reminder of the update of this post.

Clarence - that means no more posting from me. And I wish you all the best. Remember, there is nothing you can do about people like K. Other than to pray for them and move one.

K - that means you'll be battering an empty house. (Definition - you have no victim in me, Ma'am. You will have to look elsewhere)

You state: "You need to get off it, and get back to work harrassing and dissing your customers. You spend and waste TOO much time in here berating people. "

I have every right to be here, sweetie, it's an open forum! And I don't spend much time here.

"This is OUR forum - yours is your little cubicle at Discover." OUR forum? I think the POINT of the forum is to hear both sides. If it wasn't, they wouldn't let me respond!

"Of course, I suppose since DISCOVER has been DIScovered as being such a RIP-OFF, you have probably been hired to do this full-time as there are so many complaints about DIScover card, hmmm???"

NOPE. Wrong again, Ms. Ignorant.

"You blog is just a bunch of crap, and everyone know it. You don't know what you're talking about, yet you go on blathering. It's time you shut up and go away.... far, far, away! You are not helping the consumer, you are just trying to make a case for yourself and/or your crappy company, and NOBODY IS BUYING IT!"

Oh, get over yourself. You spouted about a minute's worth of reading about NOTHING. Make a valid point based on the thread itself. I invite you to point out SPECIFIC examples of how I am wrong. Even hypocritical Kate (who loves to tell me how bitter and mean I am even while she's being snotty herself!) does some research and talks (reasonably) intelligently about the UCC and such.

In other words, all I caught was "WAH, WAH, WAH...blah, blah, blah" Clearly a woman with nothing to say. Or a man whose last name is "DINA". Go back into the kitchen with "someone" until you have something more fruitful than a bunch of blustering and a pathetic attempt to bully me off the board. I mean, even Clarence makes misguided attempts to recall specific items from my posts. He misquotes me a lot, or gives me credit for smart insights made by others (like Robert).

I should think if you'd read the whole board you might have something more challenging to say than just feeble attempts at condescension (ie: my "little cubicle") I don't see any shame in working in a call center or sitting in a "cubicle". Beats flipping burgers, cleaning toilets, or whatever YOU do for a living. Or do you "cube", too? I bet you do. People in glass houses love to throw stones.

Again, I hope this 3rd segment posts in the right order....
Anyway, WELL SAID, "A". Common sense is not dead! HALLELUJAH!
PS: RE: "This whole message thread is like one big advertisement for Discover Card. I can see the slogan now Despite what ignorant mouth-breathers might want, we will not give just anyone access to your account!""

HMMM. I wouldn't put it quite that way, but you've got the underlying sentiment right! LOL :)

Kate....again: "ALSO if they do accept power of attorneys as a normal course of business and chose not to in a single case, without a valid excuse - is this not discrimination also?)"

Absolutely. But the key here is there is not just a "single" case where we've been unable to verify a POA. We have a whole fraud department drawers full of such cases. And what Clarence fails to give Discover credit for is our willingness to reopen the account if:

A> He can do the 3 way call w/ Mom and get whatever issue is outstanding dealt with rather than sit on this board shaking his fist. He is certainly free to do the fist shaking, but why not take PRODUCTIVE action, too? For all my so-called "mean, bitter" comments on this board, I HAVE tried to help Clarence by advising him of this option. Thus far, he has likely chosen to ignore it...or he doesn't want to post the results of the call here for his own reasons. Either way, put up or shut up!

B> The account was in good standing when it was closed.

C> If there was still a balance when it was closed, it must continue to be in good standing. (In other words, no refusing to make payments because you're sulking!) [AND no, Clarence (and Kate), that was NOT directed at Clarence in particular. It is for EVERYONE who wishes to reopen an account, for any reason. You wouldn't believe the number of people who screw up their credit records this way.

Another valid point you made, KATE: "I do not believe that you can force a third party to honor a power of attorney for an elderly or incapacitated customer."

However, we do honor them if the verification process is completed satisfactorily.

Another interesting point: "And any business with any level of integrity should be horrified at the idea that anyone in their organization would refuse a valid durable power of attorney".

Well, you are right. The key word is "VALID", and until it is verified as "Valid", we sit and wait for Clarence (or others in similar situations) to make contact. As discussed many times before, we won't be initiating this contact because we do not have a valid number FOR OUR CUSTOMER. We do,however, have plenty of numbers for CLARENCE.

Last word (for Kate): "What worse message to send to your customers than 'hey! Guess what our new program is? If you get in a wreck, or get old or sick - we're going to refuse to work with anyone on your behalf! You'll just be out of luck'."

HMMM. Who's bitter? You certainly sound less than a flowery, happy person here! And please don't get me started on all your "makes her disclaimer mute. :-)" Improper word usage, honey. May I suggest the word "MOOT" Look it up. Go to the library and ask someone to help you find a dictionary.

Hello, Clarence! You say, "k must have bit the dust and so discover came up with a.a is just like k as far as having a very negative attitude and the same foul mouth as k" First, Discover didn't "come up with" me...I post here because I want to post here, not at any company directive. Second, "A" and I are both intelligent persons with common sense, yes, but we are DIFFERENT people. Nice try. No dice.

Guess this post shows you where you're wrong again. But to give you credit, at least you don't pretend to be psychic like Kate and then make all sorts of silly (and inaccurate) "predictions" about me. Also, someone who comes across as religious might not want to make predictions at all...isn't there something about the occult (as in, NO NO) in the bible? HMMMM. Just a suggestion.

"guess that makes me wonder about if discover has there fingers in other things." Improper word use. THEIR fingers. Those fingers over THERE. See? You and Mel Gibson, buddy. Quite the conspiracy theorists! At least Mel's character's theories were right. Yes, Clarence. I'm so very sure www.ripoffreport.com is "in on it" with Discover. We beam up their moderator in our UFO twice a week for updates. Get a reality check, sir.

IN closing, I can only say that I wish I DID get paid for posting here, as some of you think might be the case. It's so much more amusing that the old 9-5. Not that I hate my job, but you can't beat getting to sit in front of the computer in your PJs AND earning money. Maybe I could work for a psychic hotline. I hear Kate's job in the prediction department is about to open up...
*GRIN*

As I said in my "More to follow" post (which I hope they post before this one...sometimes I send rebuttals and they get posted in a different order than I sent them...)

For "A" in Bartlett, IL: WELCOME! Loved your first and subsequent posts.

Back to your later post, KATE: you made several interesting comments: "It cannot be simply dismissed by anyone. It is a right to contract that all private citizen's hold in this country, if they have capacity." The keys to remember here: We didn't dismiss the POA, my understanding of the situation is that we simply tried to contact our customer to VERIFY she really did submit it. Plus...let's consider the words "if they have capacity". Maybe his mother does, and maybe she doesn't. We can only step out in faith that Clarence is being 100% honest in his posts. We'll never know for sure.

REFER NOW TO "A's" post regarding the hypothetical scenario he or she suggested: "XYZ Bank does nothing to verify this information. They accept the document a legitimate and open up your credit line to this criminal. I guarantee you that if this happened, you would be screaming from the rooftops about how XYZ was incompetent and evil." So true. Discover is damned if they do, damned if they don't. We're going to piss someone off at some point, that's just how life works. That old saying "you can't please all the people all the time" applies here.

Clarence continues to cry foul over Discover not calling the numbers HE provided, which were numbers to reach HIM, not his mother.

Well, gee, think about this, Kate:

Referring back to "As" hypothetical scenario and expounding on it:

Let's say Jon Doe sent us a POA that puts him in charge of his uncle's affairs. Jon Doe isn't really David Doe's nephew (for the sake of argument) but a CRIMINAL intent on taking over her account. If we call phone #'s he's given us as a way of verifying the legitimacy of the POA, of course he is going to say everything is peachy keen. He'll probably even know good old Uncle Dave's SSN, date of birth, address, phone number, mother's maiden name, etc.

So what good would it do us to call HIM?

That's why we can't use the numbers Clarence gave us to verify the POA. I agree, we should have been able to at least call and say we RECEIVED the paperwork, but that would be where our duty INVOLVING THOSE PARTICULAR 3 PHONE NUMBERS WOULD END...at least until we successfully contacted his mother herself.

Everyone here is fond of saying we IGNORED a POA. We didn't. We got stalled trying to verify it. I've told Clarence what he can do to fix it, yet he and you and everybody else is only interested in coming here to gripe. I notice Clarence has not come back here with any sort of announcement to the contrary (ie: that he HAS called with his mother PRESENT and able to speak to us to clear up the matter.)

Again, quoting A:

"Of course Discover is going to try to verify the Power of Attorney. They did this by attempting to contact Clarence's mother, probably by phone and mail. [[just a note to "A": according to Clarence, the only mail we sent was the closure letter]] If a person has POA over another, chances are they will get the message and contact Discover, who then can do further verification on the POA. Then they find it is legitimate, and the problem is solved. Instead, they could not contact the holder of the account [[correct!]], and therefore could not verify the legitimacy of the POA. So they close the account [[I'm guessing this is what happened. As I said before, I haven't actually viewed the account in question, and, having posted here, it would be unethical for me to do so at this point.]] What else could they do?
What damages are they at risk for? Not believing at face value a POA that they have not checked out? If you ask me, this constitutes a good business practice. " [[Thank you, that is all I've been trying to say. People send us stuff all the time, and in that "stuff" there are fake: credit cards (confiscated by merchants), POAs, address changes, requests to add authorized buyers, etc. WE WOULD BE DEEMED NEGLIGENT BY ANY COURT IN THIS COUNTRY IF WE DID NOT ATTEMPT TO VERIFY THE VALIDITY OF SUCH DOCUMENTS!!!]]

MORE TO FOLLOW>>>

For Kate. Guess you think that since you're running out of valid points you can just make ridiculous assumptions about people. As for your "predictions" Miss Cleo, you watch too many "profiler" shows...but to ill effect. You're wrong on ALL counts. I've been happily married for 12 years, thank you very much. My spouse gets a kick out of reading the posts. He's always asking if Clarence has posted anything today.

I don't really see how recommending that someone read our "cardmember agreement" (And yes, it IS seldom read!)

As for your "She even made a veiled threat, I feel, toward 'Winston' who had some legal knowledge" comment, that's just ridiculous! I was merely pointing out that anyone who claims to have a legal background of any kind should know the difference between "libel" and "slander". Since Winston didn't seem to, I just suggested that perhaps his "legal background" was less than he would have the readers of this board believe.

Also: "Scary stuff - the poisen she spews." Learn to spell, honey. You seem reasonably intelligent. P-O-I-S-O-N.

And: "She's a nasty, bitterly unhappy woman" Hmm...for all you "god" talk, you don't seem very kind, generous and loving yourself. But I am quite content, just for the record.

"she keeps holding the terms and conditions out. I find people who do that are like the serial killers who can't seem to prevent themselves from giving the police clues. "

I'm LIKE a serial killer? HEE HEE. That's quite a laugh. According to you, Kate, I spend all my time surfing the net looking for people to abuse. Hardly the case. I type fast, so even though my posts are long, I assure you I spend less time on the internet than you might think. I work full time you-know-where...and no, my job does not consist of surfing the net. Employees are not allowed to do so on company time. SORRY to burst your "great psychic bubble"!

MORE TO FOLLOW>>>>>

"K": You need to get off it, and get back to work harrassing and dissing your customers. You spend and waste TOO much time in here berating people. This is OUR forum - yours is your little cubicle at Discover. We (the consumers) don't want to hear your lame blog, we don't want to see you up on your soapbox; we want to see you HELPING us, the consumer, with the problems we call you about and not spewing venom and clawing out the eyes of consumers who feel they've been wronged.

Of course, I suppose since DISCOVER has been DIScovered as being such a RIP-OFF, you have probably been hired to do this full-time as there are so many complaints about DIScover card, hmmm???

You blog is just a bunch of crap, and everyone know it. You don't know what you're talking about, yet you go on blathering. It's time you shut up and go away.... far, far, away! You are not helping the consumer, you are just trying to make a case for yourself and/or your crappy company, and NOBODY IS BUYING IT!

Good luck to you and your mom, Clarence. My grandmother was in a similar situation; I know what you are going through, and with JERKS like we have here, it's really difficult to take care of their needs (as if they don't have it bad enough!). You have my sympathies.

What a surprise. Evil venom. How could you possibly respond to the idea that someone who is from a foreign country might not be familiar with American law - with such hatred? It was a courtesy intended to help overcome the inaccuracy of that person's first post. Without any personal attack, reflecting on their apparent ignorance.

Just pray for these folks Clarence. And then ignore them. There's enough information here without continuing to read their hatred. It only works if we respond to it.

Let them find another victim. God bless you.

k must have bit the dust and so discover came up with a.a is just like k as far as having a very negative attitude and the same foul mouth as k. a must not have read the complete list of posts as nothing was said about discover trying to contact my mother by mail,which they didnt as it has been said before. i thought that this type of stuff that a wrote was not allowed in posts anymore. guess that makes me wonder about if discover has there fingers in other things.

Kate,

How dare you question my nationality! What do you base this ludicrous notion on? That you disagree with me? Anyone that you disagree with "isn't from the United States"??? How dare you!

As for your information about the Power of Attorney, let me give you a hypothetical situation (Since you are from Toledo, I will explain - hypothetical means "This ain't real, just sposin' for a sec...")
Let's say you have a credit card with XYZ Bank.
Someone steels your social security number and drafts a fake "power of attorney" giving them authority of access your account.
They send this document to XYZ Bank.
XYZ Bank does nothing to verify this information. They accept the document a legitimate and open up your credit line to this criminal.

I guarantee you that if this happened, you would be screaming from the rooftops about how XYZ was incompetent and evil.

Of course Discover is going to try to verify the Power of Attorney. They did this by attempting to contact Clarence's mother, probably by phone and mail. If a person has POA over another, chances are they will get the message and contact Discover, who then can do further verification on the POA. Then they find it is legitimate, and the problem is solved.

Instead, they could not contact the holder of the account, and therefore could not verify the legitimacy of the POA. So they close the account. What else could they do?

What damages are they at risk for? Not believing at face value a POA that they have not checked out? If you ask me, this constitutes a good business practice. This whole message thread is like one big advertisement for Discover Card. I can see the slogan now Despite what ignorant mouth-breathers might want, we will not give just anyone access to your account!

By they way, I said tilt at heavily fortified windmills, not heavily hilted windmills. It is a literary reference. You must have gone to the Toledo Public School System. Drop your comic books and try to expand your narrow little mind.

By the way Clarence, are you upset that Discover done did your mama wrong, or are you upset that the free ride at Mama's teat (on Discover's dime) is over?

I got an email that this had been updated. A newcomer with more negativism.

Maybe the last author isn't from the United States. That might explain the posting.

We used to have commercial 'heavily tilted windmills' in the USA.

Our law initially came from English common law and was heavily biased in favor of merchants and financial institutions.

The Uniform Commercial Code, which is the regulatory code for business conduct in the USA, was enacted to level the playing field.
The document in question here, I've heard it referenced to in several ways - a general, durable or lasting power of attorney. It gives a person the right to assign their decision making standing to an agent. In this case a mother to her son, Clarence.
Most senior citizens who execute Durable Powers of Attorney are getting assistance with their day to day personal affairs - which is what Clarence relates as having happened.
A durable power of attorney is a form of agency. The person who gives the power is the principal, and the person who receives the power is the "attorney-in-fact" or "agent".
This matter of 'agency' is stringently regulated by the Uniform Commercial Code. It cannot be simply dismissed by anyone. It is a right to contract that all private citizen's hold in this country, if they have capacity.

Now....as to Discover Card's being a federally regulated financial interest - we have the United States Code. Here is what it says about discriminatory practice:
USC TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 41 > SUBCHAPTER IV > 1691
1691. Scope of prohibition
Release date: 2004-05-18

(a) Activities constituting discrimination
It shall be unlawful for any creditor to discriminate against any applicant, with respect to any aspect of a credit transaction
(1) on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, sex or marital status, or age (provided the applicant has the capacity to contract);

So - we've addressed the capacity issue. Clarence's Mom is not capable to conduct her own affairs so she's given her blessing to her agent (her son) to conduct them for her. Which gives him her standing under that above Code. (And look specifically at the age notation under the 'Activities Constituting Discrimination'. I think this would be a real safety issue for a financial institution to find themselves in this position. ALSO if they do accept power of attorneys as a normal course of business and chose not to in a single case, without a valid excuse - is this not discrimination also?)

Now, saying all this - I do not believe that you can force a third party to honor a power of attorney for an elderly or incapacitated customer. But I believe they are at risk for any damages resulting in their failure to do so.

And any business with any level of integrity should be horrified at the idea that anyone in their organization would refuse a valid durable power of attorney.

What worse message to send to your customers than 'hey! Guess what our new program is? If you get in a wreck, or get old or sick - we're going to refuse to work with anyone on your behalf! You'll just be out of luck'.

These are just my thoughts Clarence. Like I said you do have the option of letting it go with the knowledge that, given the initial facts were all correct, you were really done wrong :-)

Clarence,

The most important fact is being forgotten here... Credit is a privilege, not a right. Discover is the owner of the account, not your mother, and not you. If they choose to close the account, they can close it for any reason they want. It clearly states that in the "Termination" section of the Cardholder Agreement your mother had to have signed when the account was opened.

Good luck to you in your futile attempts to tilt at heavily fortified windmills.

I do wish the best for you and your mother. Like you, I've gone the nursing home routine from a distance and I know the difficulties and how it must make you feel. I am sorry. Sometimes there are only bad choices left. You have to live with having made a bad choice sometimes - even if it was the 'best' choice available. Hard to describe.

Hope you believe in God and praying will help you cope. You have to know that what's going on is designed to make you angry and feel embarassed. The woman from Discover is an abusive personality, clearly. She even made a veiled threat, I feel, toward 'Winston' who had some legal knowledge.

She said something about an attorney about to be disbarred? Then Winston stopped posting. Scary stuff - the poisen she spews. However, a couple of predictions and I have no interest in speaking to her - I avoid evil and vile people because I CAN.

She's not married, because she's posting her poisen here. If she had a victim right at hand you can bet she wouldn't be surfing the internet looking for someone who's in a bad situation and targeting them for personal abuse.

I DID interpret her comments to be a slam about your credit. I DID see a number of remarks from her that I consider to be libelous.
She's a nasty, bitterly unhappy woman. And it's clearly by her own hand that she is so nasty. She's getting what she's giving. A nasty cycle.

BUT - one last thought here.....she keeps holding the terms and conditions out. I find people who do that are like the serial killers who can't seem to prevent themselves from giving the police clues. I don't know why they do that - but I've seen this a number of times. There is likely something in those terms and conditions and she's tickling herself by teasing you with it.

Her repeated comment, "If you read the SELDOM read cardmember agreement". I hope you find them Clarence and can subpeona Discover to produce their employee, K Berger to answer the contents of this posting.

Making the disclaminer that she's not representing Discover here and then going ahead and acting exactly like she's representing Discover - makes her disclaimer mute. :-)

Go get 'em Clarence. God speed to you and your mother, Sir.

thank you kate for the info on discover and the follow up info.i am now doing all of the checking up on that info.and yes i had a real good feeling that K was doing this for discover.

also im going to check and see if my mother still has her terms and agreement from discover as she has had this since 1986.

also im sure you noticed that k never answers or says anything about what was done wrong from any of these posts.that told me alot about her. thank you again Kate from me and my mother.

Even though you made some valid points, you don't seem to have read the posts accurately, either.

No, we don't require someone to have a phone. But you stated accurately enough that we can cancel an account at any time for any reason, and we did just that. And we DID give notice we were closing it. Even Clarence doesn't argue that we sent a letter to announce we closed the account.

Nothing I've seen in our agreement says that we have to notify BEFORE closing. The closing and notifying can be done simultaneously...and they were.

I see that the rebuttal rules have changed and I think that's an improvement to this already valuable site. This has saved me several times - to have checked in here first before doing business with a bad business.

Winston - sunshine and google are two of my very favorite things. As a private citizen I have access to all records that alot of companies don't want us to have.
Firstly, I'd like to have you read all of K's responses above. She's a Discover employee and she's posted her last name and first initial.
Clarence, if I were you, here is what I would do. I'd either lodge a powerful complaint against Discover's actions and K's treatment OR I'd let the matter go and not look back. Personally, I'd have a tough time letting this go. So here's what and where I found:
The Federal Reserve System and the FDIC both keep public sites. Do a google search for them.
Discover is owned by Morgan Stanley. Discover 'Bank' is incorporated in the state of Delaware. That's telling in itself. Their FDIC certificate number is 5649.
Morgan Stanley is listed on the Fed. Res. site. This means they fall under banking standards and are regulated (as in their behavior) by both the state they are incorporated under as well as the Federal Gov.
Morgan Stanley is a 'Securities' co' and located in New York, New York.
They also own Novus Credit Service, in addition to the Discover Bank.
I'd start with a hot complaint the SEC in the state of New York. Do a google search for the secretary of state in New York.
I'd also file a complaint with State Attorney General in New York and start researching the legal ramifications in New York for ignoring a properly prepared power of attorney.
Just my thoughts.
God bless and whatever you decide to do, do it and put it behind you. Life's very much worth living.

You state, and I quote..."he needs it" when you refer to WHO actually needs the card. Very good Kate. I always have the upmost confidence that people will find the truth if they just open their eyes. Take care.

just wanted to say thank you for your post and also from clarence and his mother as it seems that the rip-off site is not posting his rebuttals.he has written 4 in the last few days and none of them have been posted.he has even written the webmaster and has gotten no reply.thank you again and im glad to see someone can see that discover didnt do his mother right.

Firstly to the attorney who first responded. Spellcheck :-)
Your comments were right on point though.
1. This woman has passed a legal power of attorney to her son. He has the legal right to conduct her business affairs in her place. That is not negotiable. Discover does not have the ability to override the Uniform Commercial Code which regulates how businesses are allowed to conduct themselves.
2. There is no legal requirement that any person have a phone in their terms and conditions posted on their website. So this would not be a valid reason for canceling her account.
3. They can cancel anytime they wish for any reason, if they give the notice and make the efforts listed in the terms and conditions that were accepted AT THE INCEPTION OF THIS ACCOUNT.
Her son should see if he can locate her paperwork for this account origination. Read the terms and conditions. I would think that he will find Discover has not followed their protocol.
Why? Well that's anybody's guess, who hasn't called a company and dealt with a rude or insulting power hungry employee? Happens all the time.
I know that I will not be doing business with Discover until I see that they've reinstated this account, if it was indeed paid on time and in good standing. Sounds like it was to me and Discover made a mistake.
Final point - nobody has to justify why she needs a credit card. It's not up for negotiation. Her son negotiates for her, he needs it to obtain appropriate care for her, reliably and from a distance.
Shame on you people and Discover for not having the personal morals to stop and see what can be done to help this woman and her son.
Your time to be old will come. Don't ask for mercy you aren't willing to extend when you are able, when you are no longer able.

Firstly to the attorney who first responded. Spellcheck :-)
Your comments were right on point though.
1. This woman has passed a legal power of attorney to her son. He has the legal right to conduct her business affairs in her place. That is not negotiable. Discover does not have the ability to override the Uniform Commercial Code which regulates how businesses are allowed to conduct themselves.
2. There is no legal requirement that any person have a phone in their terms and conditions posted on their website. So this would not be a valid reason for canceling her account.
3. They can cancel anytime they wish for any reason, if they give the notice and make the efforts listed in the terms and conditions that were accepted AT THE INCEPTION OF THIS ACCOUNT.
Her son should see if he can locate her paperwork for this account origination. Read the terms and conditions. I would think that he will find Discover has not followed their protocol.
Why? Well that's anybody's guess, who hasn't called a company and dealt with a rude or insulting power hungry employee? Happens all the time.
I know that I will not be doing business with Discover until I see that they've reinstated this account, if it was indeed paid on time and in good standing. Sounds like it was to me and Discover made a mistake.
Final point - nobody has to justify why she needs a credit card. It's not up for negotiation. Her son negotiates for her, he needs it to obtain appropriate care for her, reliably and from a distance.
Shame on you people and Discover for not having the personal morals to stop and see what can be done to help this woman and her son.
Your time to be old will come. Don't ask for mercy you aren't willing to extend when you are able, when you are no longer able.

Firstly to the attorney who first responded. Spellcheck :-)
Your comments were right on point though.
1. This woman has passed a legal power of attorney to her son. He has the legal right to conduct her business affairs in her place. That is not negotiable. Discover does not have the ability to override the Uniform Commercial Code which regulates how businesses are allowed to conduct themselves.
2. There is no legal requirement that any person have a phone in their terms and conditions posted on their website. So this would not be a valid reason for canceling her account.
3. They can cancel anytime they wish for any reason, if they give the notice and make the efforts listed in the terms and conditions that were accepted AT THE INCEPTION OF THIS ACCOUNT.
Her son should see if he can locate her paperwork for this account origination. Read the terms and conditions. I would think that he will find Discover has not followed their protocol.
Why? Well that's anybody's guess, who hasn't called a company and dealt with a rude or insulting power hungry employee? Happens all the time.
I know that I will not be doing business with Discover until I see that they've reinstated this account, if it was indeed paid on time and in good standing. Sounds like it was to me and Discover made a mistake.
Final point - nobody has to justify why she needs a credit card. It's not up for negotiation. Her son negotiates for her, he needs it to obtain appropriate care for her, reliably and from a distance.
Shame on you people and Discover for not having the personal morals to stop and see what can be done to help this woman and her son.
Your time to be old will come. Don't ask for mercy you aren't willing to extend when you are able, when you are no longer able.

Firstly to the attorney who first responded. Spellcheck :-)
Your comments were right on point though.
1. This woman has passed a legal power of attorney to her son. He has the legal right to conduct her business affairs in her place. That is not negotiable. Discover does not have the ability to override the Uniform Commercial Code which regulates how businesses are allowed to conduct themselves.
2. There is no legal requirement that any person have a phone in their terms and conditions posted on their website. So this would not be a valid reason for canceling her account.
3. They can cancel anytime they wish for any reason, if they give the notice and make the efforts listed in the terms and conditions that were accepted AT THE INCEPTION OF THIS ACCOUNT.
Her son should see if he can locate her paperwork for this account origination. Read the terms and conditions. I would think that he will find Discover has not followed their protocol.
Why? Well that's anybody's guess, who hasn't called a company and dealt with a rude or insulting power hungry employee? Happens all the time.
I know that I will not be doing business with Discover until I see that they've reinstated this account, if it was indeed paid on time and in good standing. Sounds like it was to me and Discover made a mistake.
Final point - nobody has to justify why she needs a credit card. It's not up for negotiation. Her son negotiates for her, he needs it to obtain appropriate care for her, reliably and from a distance.
Shame on you people and Discover for not having the personal morals to stop and see what can be done to help this woman and her son.
Your time to be old will come. Don't ask for mercy you aren't willing to extend when you are able, when you are no longer able.

Your last post states: "that was a suggestion from winston.seems like you really worried about something."

Not worried at all. I just love showing you your own stupidity (such as your confusion over the definitions of "slander" and "libel.) Since you are so gleefully certain I'm shaking in my boots, I guess I will have to ease up on mentioning Winston's scare-tactics. For the record, I've lost no sleep over it. Well, except for the moments I've spent giggling over your inability to use proper terminology...

NEXT YOU STATE: "and for some one who hasnt seen the info on this acct and doesnt do this for discover,then how do you know that i have called or not to set up a call the next time im in lubbock?"

You're right. I don't. But since you are so eager to moan and whine and rage about what you think Discover has "done" to you, I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to come here and post that you called Discover and give some short, bitter rant about how the call went. So until I see such a post, I will have to assume (as will anyone reading these threads) that you are too busy whining and moaning to actually DO something constructive like set up the three-way call I mentioned.

Until you whine again,

Your last post states: "that was a suggestion from winston.seems like you really worried about something."

Not worried at all. I just love showing you your own stupidity (such as your confusion over the definitions of "slander" and "libel.) Since you are so gleefully certain I'm shaking in my boots, I guess I will have to ease up on mentioning Winston's scare-tactics. For the record, I've lost no sleep over it. Well, except for the moments I've spent giggling over your inability to use proper terminology...

NEXT YOU STATE: "and for some one who hasnt seen the info on this acct and doesnt do this for discover,then how do you know that i have called or not to set up a call the next time im in lubbock?"

You're right. I don't. But since you are so eager to moan and whine and rage about what you think Discover has "done" to you, I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to come here and post that you called Discover and give some short, bitter rant about how the call went. So until I see such a post, I will have to assume (as will anyone reading these threads) that you are too busy whining and moaning to actually DO something constructive like set up the three-way call I mentioned.

Until you whine again,

Your last post states: "that was a suggestion from winston.seems like you really worried about something."

Not worried at all. I just love showing you your own stupidity (such as your confusion over the definitions of "slander" and "libel.) Since you are so gleefully certain I'm shaking in my boots, I guess I will have to ease up on mentioning Winston's scare-tactics. For the record, I've lost no sleep over it. Well, except for the moments I've spent giggling over your inability to use proper terminology...

NEXT YOU STATE: "and for some one who hasnt seen the info on this acct and doesnt do this for discover,then how do you know that i have called or not to set up a call the next time im in lubbock?"

You're right. I don't. But since you are so eager to moan and whine and rage about what you think Discover has "done" to you, I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to come here and post that you called Discover and give some short, bitter rant about how the call went. So until I see such a post, I will have to assume (as will anyone reading these threads) that you are too busy whining and moaning to actually DO something constructive like set up the three-way call I mentioned.

Until you whine again,

Your last post states: "that was a suggestion from winston.seems like you really worried about something."

Not worried at all. I just love showing you your own stupidity (such as your confusion over the definitions of "slander" and "libel.) Since you are so gleefully certain I'm shaking in my boots, I guess I will have to ease up on mentioning Winston's scare-tactics. For the record, I've lost no sleep over it. Well, except for the moments I've spent giggling over your inability to use proper terminology...

NEXT YOU STATE: "and for some one who hasnt seen the info on this acct and doesnt do this for discover,then how do you know that i have called or not to set up a call the next time im in lubbock?"

You're right. I don't. But since you are so eager to moan and whine and rage about what you think Discover has "done" to you, I'm sure you wouldn't hesitate to come here and post that you called Discover and give some short, bitter rant about how the call went. So until I see such a post, I will have to assume (as will anyone reading these threads) that you are too busy whining and moaning to actually DO something constructive like set up the three-way call I mentioned.

Until you whine again,

What a pleasure to find out you're still lurking around this thread! And thank you for the compliment.

Good to know I'm not the only one capable of rational thought. Also good to know I'm not the only one on this board who can spell and use proper grammar. Clarence can't even spell "knew". (See last post!)

As for Clarence's accusation..."i new when you said that that was your last post that is was another lie."

Well, that may be a lie. I did say I wouldn't post again. However, any rational human being would see that the title of my post, "I cannot resist", explains the reason for my additional posting. As in...I cannot resist posting when Clarence is making such a moron of himself!

Hope to continue seeing you on these boards, Robert!

you wrote to find any place you had wrote the statement and i did. because robert did not write the oh please post. as for the nursing home statement that has also been answered before. and if you are not worried about legal action then why are you so hung up on making a big deal out of it? i never said out right that i was going to do anything.

that was a suggestion from winston.seems like you really worried about something.and for some one who hasnt seen the info on this acct and doesnt do this for discover,then how do you know that i have called or not to set up a call the next time im in lubbock?

so i would say that you are the one who needs to use common sense and not company rules when making these posts so you dont get egg on your face. and i see there is still no answer to your(discover does everything to verify a poa statement,so as usual we are dodging again.
and i new when you said that that was your last post that is was another lie.

"K", I am falling in love with you. You have all the same insights and comprehension that I have looked for in a female. Nice to know that there are still people out there who went to school and did something other than occupy space.

Here you are with egg on your face again, Clarence.

You directed me (in your last post) to MY post entitled "oh, please!" where you claim I'll find myself asking why your mother needed a card.

NOPE!!!!!!!

It is now clear to 100% of the LITERATE public that you cannot assimilate written information very well because this is what that post said:

" I was simply responding to Robert's statements:

"I am still trying to figure out how and why SHE needs the credit card. She is in a nursing home. The nursing home provides everything she needs including medication. This is not arguable." "

ROBERT made the statement: ""I am still trying to figure out how and why SHE needs the credit card. She is in a nursing home. The nursing home provides everything she needs including medication. This is not arguable."

You then state: "and it sure took you a long time to even bring up the three way calling idea. wonder WHY?"

Well, I'm afraid I was giving you too much credit for problem solving, Clarence. I would have thought you'd have had the common sense to figure this out on your own. But as I can see I was giving you WAY WAY WAY too much credit in the "Logical thinking" department. Not only that but I think it is rather amusing that instead of actually following that advice you just mock it. Would I be right to assume you are not going to attempt such a 3 way call so that Discover can assist with the matter?

Also, you state, "as far as the suit that you are so hung up on, i hate to tell you but where the crime was committed is where it is handled except in federal cases."

HMMMMM. Well, the internet is not a PLACE. And even if a crime were committed (which it wasn't) since I would be the person you are accusing, since I live in AZ, and since matters of dispute having to do with this board and its postings, I think I am correct that any litigation would take place HERE in AZ. It can't be done in cyberspace (yet!) so I guess you're WRONG again.

Oh, and as for your comment, "and it does say disputes but nothing about civil or crimnal laws. " What exactly do you think the term "Jurisdiction over any disputes arising out of this posting" implies? Sure, I could be wrong. Maybe you should ask the moderator? I don't think there's really any other possible meaning behind those words. What would the STATE OF ARIZONA care about a non-court related "dispute"? ANSWER: THEY WOULDN'T.

read your own oh please post on you saying why does she need a credit card.and it sure took you a long time to even bring up the three way calling idea. wonder WHY?and as i have said before i sent the phone numbers to call me only to let me know that discover had received the poa as stated on the cover sheet.as far as the suit that you are so hung up on,

i hate to tell you but where the crime was committed is where it is handled except in federal cases.and as usual i see you are still dodging the outright lie about discover doing everything to verify a poa.and as far as another phone number for my mother.

no one even ASKED FOR ONE!!and it does say disputes but nothing about civil or crimnal laws. and as you say i hope everyone who reads this reads it from top to bottom and see that you and discover are very wrong and all you have done is LIE and make excuses,and call people names in trying to cover up what yall did to my mother.

This will be my last post, since your previous post added nothing new to the conversation.

Once again, dear Clarence, you have clearly not read or have not understood what you have read in my last post. You now state: "wrong k-you did say you were still trying to figure out why she needed a credit card."

Where? Point out a specific post of mine that said this or asked this. To correct you, I direct you to one of ROBERT'S posts. He didn't post too many, so even you should be able to locate it. ROBERT said: "I am still trying to figure out how and why SHE needs the credit card...."

I've never asked why your mother needed or wanted the discover card. I challenge you to find such words uttered BY ME. plus you never even asked for another number,etc to contact my mother

And again, in response to your statement: where was the attempt to set up any call to my mother as the only thing they did was call her home number when they already knew she wasnt there. "

You may have told us she wasn't at that number, but again, for the reading comprehension impaired, PART OF THE VERIFICATION PROCESS INVOLVES CALLING THE CUSTOMER AT THEIR "LISTED" NUMBER. If you had provided a contact phone for your mother at the nursing home, we would have called it.

You go on to say "plus you never even asked for another number,etc to contact my mother"

Well, in my last post I said: "If you are unhappy, feel free to help your mother contact us if she can. If she can't, feel free to resubmit the POA or send a letter. If not, quit whining ."

Let me now add...feel free to arrange a 3 way call between you, your mother, and Discover the next time you visit her at the home. She may not have a phone in her room, I am aware of this and I am anticipating that you'll use that as an excuse as to why it cannot be done. However, there are public phones in every nursing home I've ever visited, and on the off chance that there aren't any functioning, you can likely use a phone of one or another of the staff members.

Let me guess....your next post will probably beg off all of my above suggestions with the excuse that you're just so tired of dealing with it or just so mad or whatever that you aren't going to bother. So in the end, if that is the case, then you have nothing further to complain about because you were offered possible suggestions to fix the solution and CHOSE not to.

I will not post again. I don't see the point. I never expected you to be placated or satisfied with my responses and I don't expect you to attempt a resolution by calling Discover as I mentioned earlier. I expect you'll just go on griping so you can have the last word. I don't mind giving it to you. Anyone that reads this entire thread (God bless them, because it is a LONG thread!) will see that I have accomplished my goal of providing both sides of the story and some background information into the way such matters work.

The readers are intelligent enough to realize that while you may feel slighted, you've been given information to help you decide whether you want to contact Discover and work it out or just keep blustering to anyone who will listen. I, for one, am opting to walk away feeling that I've done what I could to help you find the solution by suggesting you AND your mother call Discover and see if it can be worked out.

oh..PS: Next time you write a rebuttal...take a look at the fine print below the "Submit your rebuttal" checkbox. It says "...the State of Arizona has exclusive jurisdiction over any disputes arising out of this posting." And, by checking the box, you agree to accept this. So I think if you are still chasing that lawsuit angle, that if there WERE differing laws as to what constitutes "libel" (and I'm certainly not losing any sleep over this one, because like I said, there are no differences in what CONSTITUTES it...just what the CONSEQUENCES are) you will notice that the State of Arizona is going to be the court presiding over it. So if by some chance the laws change just for you, Clarence, it won't make a bit of difference because it wouldn't be the laws from your state that decide the matter anyway. They'd be laws from mine!

wrong k-you did say you were still trying to figure out why she needed a credit card. where was the attempt to set up any call to my mother as the only thing they did was call her home number when they already knew she wasnt there.

so now im an idiot who does know what mental abuse is and discover did this to my mother.and your past statement about your legal dept doing everything to verify a poa is still a big fat LIE! and if you had read all of the previous posts then you would have known winston was right.

plus you never even asked for another number,etc to contact my mother. so you are the one that looks stupid in these posts and anyone that reads them will see that you are just making dumb excuses to cover up the wrong that you did to my mother.so until your next list of excuses,see ya and have a good day.

I actually responded to your last ridiculous post over a week ago, but it somehow never got posted. So here I go reposting it.

Your last post (submitted 8/27/04) says:
" read the whole and quit asking the same questions that have already been answered in other posts. why she needed the card has been answered several times already..."

HMMMM. Again, I think you need your eyes checked. Nowhere in my last post did I ask you what your mother needed the card for. SO I think maybe YOU should read the posts more thoroughly.

Then you go on to make another of your ill-fated attempts to frighten me:
"as for the weak case, you should know that laws differ from state to state and i have found more than one attorney that would take the case. .."

Umm, dear Clarence, there IS no gray area here. The laws do not differ in ANY states regarding Libel and Slander. It either does or does not exist. What constitutes either one DO NOT DIFFER by state. The PENALTIES might. So please quit watching too much Court TV and acting all self-important and knowledgeable, because the state laws only differ in what they will GIVE you if you win your case or what they will DO to the offender if you don't. Have fun wasting the money chasing this one, Clarence. Someone with as much financial knowledge and legal knowledge as you claim to have should realize it is a wasted effort to attempt a suit for libel based on the posts in this thread. But if it gives you something to do with your time, chase that carrot.

also you state:
"as far as cc co are concerned you still are the only one of her cards that didnt accept the poa and gave me problems. so this says alot about discover"

Maybe so. I will never know why we "gave you trouble" because I have not personally viewed the account in question. And again, for the COMPREHENSION IMPAIRED, there was most probably a very good reason for our decision. I won't answer this sort of comment again, because I will only be saying the same thing...over and over and over.

You write, "As far as your remark about abuse, that is wrong or have you never heard of mental abuse? your legal dept did nothing to verify the poa except call her home phone when they knew she wasnt even there, and this is stated in the letter they sent her telling her they had cancelled her account dated 6-23-04."

Boy. I thought I defined the term "abuse" pretty well in my last post. You still don't seem to get it: there was no abuse, mental or otherwise, of you or your mother.

You write: "im not a little man that needs my mothers cc for myself but a son who is very upset that my mother was abused by discover and want people to know what kind of company they are"

I didn't say that you were a "little man that needs [your] mother's cc for [yourself].."

I said (and you can refer back to the posts) "you are just a finger-pointing little man who is trying to come up with any way whatsoever to make Discover look as if they've done you wrong..."

Gosh, your inability to assimilate this material is frightening.

You write: "but a son who is very upset that my mother was abused by discover"

Again, Clarence, get out a dictionary. We didn't abuse your mother in any way. We couldn't reach her, so we closed OUR account to protect our assets and your mother's. If she wanted it reopened, she could call us with the help of a nursing home aid.

Winston tried correcting us and said "and the report doesnt say she cant talk but that she couldnt talk on the phone as she couldnt hold the phone would be my guess." Is that true? Was Winston right? If so, she can call us any time with the help of an aide from the nursing home. We'll be happy to look into the situation.

You're so fond of mentioning that we never tried to call. And you're right. We never tried to call YOU. Part of the verification process for POAs includes trying to contact the cardholder. Why? Because we get lots of fake POAs or forged POAs every day. ((DON'T JUMP THE GUN...I'M NOT ACCUSING YOU OF ANYTHING, SO DON'T GET OUT THE PHONEBOOK AND START LOOKING FOR LAWYERS JUST YET)) Calling the cardmember is a natural first step toward making sure they are aware of the POA.

We stop at least one attempt to takeover an account via a completely faked or forged POA every day. So we always call the person whose name appears on the account to see if they have created a POA with someone. So I don't get why you'd be so surprised that we'd try to contact your mother. It's our job. It's what we do. And like I said, we stop a lot of potential fraud that way. The next step, if we reached your mother successfully (your MOTHER...not YOU) would be to call YOU...the person on the other end of the POA...the one that will be acting as the cardholder's agent. You also would not believe the number of POA's that we get where the "AGENT" knows nothing about the POA.

(It's like this. Let's assume there is a Widowed man named AL whose daughter is named ANNA. We get a POA that lists ANNA as AL's new agent. ANNA is being given permission in the POA to handle all of AL's financial transactions....write checks, handle the credit cards, EVERYTHING. So step ONE is to call AL and see if he knows anything about this POA. For the purposes of this demonstration, let's pretend he DOES NOT know. Ok. So AL doesn't know about the POA but he IS able to competently answer our questions about his account and is LUCID.

He knows what is going on, understands what we are asking him and why. So next we contact ANNA to ask her why we have a POA that AL doesn't know anything about. Only ANNA doesn't know anything about it either. So she calls AL on three way calling and AL, ANNA, and DISCOVER have a nice long chat about this POA. It is determined it is a fake and that some unknown person is trying to unlawfully gain access to AL's account.))

Clarence, if we didn't handle the POAs in that order (call the Cardmember. Then call the "AGENT") we'd be passing on MANY more fraud losses to our customers. So what it boils down to is pretty simple. We couldn't reach your mother, so the verification process appears to have stopped there. If you are unhappy, feel free to help your mother contact us if she can. If she can't, feel free to resubmit the POA or send a letter. If not, quit whining and for pete's sake, quit blustering about a lawsuit that no reputable lawyer would touch with a 10-ft pole.

Do you have any idea how each subsequent post just makes you look dimmer and dimmer? You keep telling me "read the whole and quit asking the same questions..." and your buddy "buck" said "so K you need to read the whole thing and check all the facts before writing a rebuttal"

I would have to urge YOU, Clarence, to follow this advice. GET IT RIGHT when you respond to my posts. If you don't, you're just making yourself look like a bigger and bigger idiot...and while you are doing this, you make anyone reading these threads (at least anyone of reasonable intelligence) think that Discover knows what they are talking about and that the guy complaining either failed reading comprehension, didn't get past grade school, or has the world's shortest attention span.

Please attempt to make your next post an intelligent one that shows you have read AND understood my post. Otherwise, you're wasting my time. And since you keep repeating the same info over and over with nothing new to add to the situation, you're BORING me also.

k - read the whole and quit asking the same questions that have already been answered in other posts. why she needed the card has been answered several times already and i have explained that the nursing home doesnt supply everything.as for the weak case, you should know that laws differ from state to state and i have found more than one attorney that would take the case. as far as cc co are concerned you still are the only one of her cards that didnt accept the poa and gave me problems. so this says alot about discover. and i am screaming about this as she cant on her own.

As far as your remark about abuse, that is wrong or have you never heard of mental abuse? your legal dept did nothing to verify the poa except call her home phone when they knew she wasnt even there, and this is stated in the letter they sent her telling her they had cancelled her account dated 6-23-04.

So you saying that discover does everything to verify a poa was a down right LIE! im not a little man that needs my mothers cc for myself but a son who is very upset that my mother was abused by discover and want people to know what kind of company they are. That is if youre elderly or disabled dont depend on discover to help you in your time of need or assist thier family in helping you.

Clarence, Clarence, Clarence. I am shaking my head at you right now. Your previous post had a lot less "Steam", so I am pretty sure you now realize how pathetic your "case" would be. I doubt a jury will get a chance to decide anything because, as I said, I don't know of a lawyer (except one that is about to be disbarred) that would take such a weak case.

You quoted my "thank you, Robert" post with the following:
"whena child or grandchild takes control of a elderly persons finances, even WITH a POA, they either commit FRAUD or in the case of a valid poa, they forget to tell us when the cardholder dies and keep using the card for themselves or blatantly ignore the guidelines of the poa"

Sure, I wrote that. But nowhere does it mention your name. It is merely a generalization about the sorts of fraud INVOLVING POAs (notice I did NOT say INVOLVING Clarence's POA) that Discover Card sees on a daily basis. I was simply responding to Robert's statements:

"I am still trying to figure out how and why SHE needs the credit card. She is in a nursing home. The nursing home provides everything she needs including medication. This is not arguable."

The only "mistake" I made was not pasting the PORTION of his statement that I agreed with because I can see where ROBERT'S (not my!) subsequent statements: "She has NO NEED for a credit card from anyone. It appears that Clarence NEEDS the credit card. Must have looked that way to Discover too. They cancelled HER card for various reasons that Clarence has already stated and SHE is not complaining. HE is."

Now, if I had made THAT statement, then I most certainly WOULD have appeared to have been accusing you of something. HOWEVER, I did not. Also, you stated: "so i dont see why you are accusing me and anyone else in the same place as me of the above as you wrote. there is no give in what you wrote. no maybes,could,etc in your statement"

I'm only going to ask: Did you FAIL reading comprehension in grade school?? You seem to have an ongoing problem with assimilating information. Please refer back to the same post you "partially" quoted: To leave room for the truly honest POA holders out there, the portion of my "Thank you, Robert" post that you CONVENIENTLY left out to attempt to SLANT the situation in your favor, was this: "99.9% of the time, [when a "child" or "grandchild" takes control of an elderly person's finances...]" SO I CLEARLY left room for the honest POAs out there. I can neither place you in that group NOR place you outside it, as I have stated many times that I have not viewed the account in question.

My remarks on this thread are limited to generalizations about the POA issues that exist within the scope of FRAUD PREVENTION because that was the only time I interacted with anyone in regards to POAs.

AND to answer your further accusation as quoted from your last post entitled "more excuses from discover" : "also your statementabout not having my full name ,address,etc is a down right lie as it is on the POA.also if your pre-screen was run after discover received the poa then that would look very ???.would it not?"

I apologize for any misunderstanding here. What I should have said was "I do not have access to your name and address" because I don't. You are correct that Discover must certainly have them along with your POA paperwork. And while I recognize that you are just a finger-pointing little man who is trying to come up with any way whatsoever to make Discover look as if they've done you wrong, I have to say that your knowledge of the way a credit company works is very, very faulty. (Read it CAREFULLY, Clarence, so you don't keep making silly mistakes in your replies):

Our screening for pre-approved applications operates COMPLETELY independently of our Fraud Prevention AND Legal departments (legal being the department that VERIFIES and maintains POA files). In that aspect, if you feel like accusing our right hand (new accounts) not knowing what the left is up to (the legal and fraud prevention departments), you'd be 100% correct.
New accounts only has access to anything that is going on with CURRENT accounts for the first 6 months they are open. Even then, they only have such access to the CARDHOLDER's information (ie: your mother's name, address, ssn, dob, mmn) NOT that of a non-involved Third Party. So if they DO have information about you at all, and if Discover HAS looked at your credit, it was an unbiased look that had nothing to do w/ this situation, regardless of the date.

Still, I doubt you'll believe me even though I speak the truth. Even if Discover checks your credit today, it's got nothing to do with your mother's account, these posts, or anything else. It's just Discover using their account at the credit bureaus to run a general search of people w/ acceptable credit scores so that we can invite them to become Cardholders. Nothing more sinister than that, dear imaginative Clarence.

But just as a side note: perhaps you should look into writing crime fiction. You've got a great lot of imaginative theories and a lot of good emotions that need an outlet.

Also, if you don't want Discover or any other creditors to have access to your information FOR THE PURPOSES of pre-solicited/pre-approved applications, I suggest you call 1-888-5-OPTOUT (or 1-888-567-8688) and add yourself to the OPT OUT for either the 2 year or the PERMANENT term. If you do not, we are well within our rights to access your credit file, at least for "pre-approved/solicited" purposes.

Finally, as to your query : "okay instead of ripped off,then how about abused?" Well, you may feel abused, but again, since the account you speak of (and ALL cardholder accounts, for that matter) remain the property of Discover Card, if any abuse occurred (which it did not) it would only be Discover abusing Discover. Hardly makes sense, does it?

as i would expect i get mores excuses.i quote this from your thank you robert post.whena child or grandchild takes control of a elderly persons finances,even WITH a POA,they either commit FRAUD or in the case of a valid poa,they forget to tell us when the cardholder dies and keep using the card for themselves or blatantly ignore the guidelines of the poa.the only thing i can do with a poa on any credit card account is to change billing address,check acct balances,and other info about the acct.

so i dont see why you are accusing me and anyone else in the same place as me of the above as you wrote. there is no give in what you wrote. no maybes,could,etc in your statement. discover did not do everything to verify the poa as i have stated above in other posts. so as far as libel is concerned i would say that the statement above is directed at me, but that would be up to a jury to decide. also your statementabout not having my full name ,address,etc is a down right lie as it is on the POA.also if your pre-screen was run after discover received the poa then that would look very ???.

would it not? your legal department did not do everything to verify the poa so quit stating that they did. okay instead of ripped off,then how about abused?

as i would expect i get mores excuses.i quote this from your thank you robert post.whena child or grandchild takes control of a elderly persons finances,even WITH a POA,they either commit FRAUD or in the case of a valid poa,they forget to tell us when the cardholder dies and keep using the card for themselves or blatantly ignore the guidelines of the poa.the only thing i can do with a poa on any credit card account is to change billing address,check acct balances,and other info about the acct.

so i dont see why you are accusing me and anyone else in the same place as me of the above as you wrote. there is no give in what you wrote. no maybes,could,etc in your statement. discover did not do everything to verify the poa as i have stated above in other posts. so as far as libel is concerned i would say that the statement above is directed at me, but that would be up to a jury to decide. also your statementabout not having my full name ,address,etc is a down right lie as it is on the POA.also if your pre-screen was run after discover received the poa then that would look very ???.

would it not? your legal department did not do everything to verify the poa so quit stating that they did. okay instead of ripped off,then how about abused?

as i would expect i get mores excuses.i quote this from your thank you robert post.whena child or grandchild takes control of a elderly persons finances,even WITH a POA,they either commit FRAUD or in the case of a valid poa,they forget to tell us when the cardholder dies and keep using the card for themselves or blatantly ignore the guidelines of the poa.the only thing i can do with a poa on any credit card account is to change billing address,check acct balances,and other info about the acct.

so i dont see why you are accusing me and anyone else in the same place as me of the above as you wrote. there is no give in what you wrote. no maybes,could,etc in your statement. discover did not do everything to verify the poa as i have stated above in other posts. so as far as libel is concerned i would say that the statement above is directed at me, but that would be up to a jury to decide. also your statementabout not having my full name ,address,etc is a down right lie as it is on the POA.also if your pre-screen was run after discover received the poa then that would look very ???.

would it not? your legal department did not do everything to verify the poa so quit stating that they did. okay instead of ripped off,then how about abused?

as i would expect i get mores excuses.i quote this from your thank you robert post.whena child or grandchild takes control of a elderly persons finances,even WITH a POA,they either commit FRAUD or in the case of a valid poa,they forget to tell us when the cardholder dies and keep using the card for themselves or blatantly ignore the guidelines of the poa.the only thing i can do with a poa on any credit card account is to change billing address,check acct balances,and other info about the acct.

so i dont see why you are accusing me and anyone else in the same place as me of the above as you wrote. there is no give in what you wrote. no maybes,could,etc in your statement. discover did not do everything to verify the poa as i have stated above in other posts. so as far as libel is concerned i would say that the statement above is directed at me, but that would be up to a jury to decide. also your statementabout not having my full name ,address,etc is a down right lie as it is on the POA.also if your pre-screen was run after discover received the poa then that would look very ???.

would it not? your legal department did not do everything to verify the poa so quit stating that they did. okay instead of ripped off,then how about abused?

Firstly, have a look at my reply to Clarence regarding proper use of terminology...specifically slander vs. libel.

Secondly, regarding your statement "the way it was worded would make anyone think that they were saying you were commiting fraud."...well, I challenge you to point out that wording to me after reading my previous post to Clarence. Perhaps reading comprehension is not your forte?

Thirdly...where, exactly, in this thread about the 84 year old bedridden mother issue did you find the words: [i would bet thatyou could fine several that would take the case as] "she said she would do anything for her company." except when you said it? I never said I would do anything for my company. I DID say: "I stand by my responsibility to protect the assests of my company and its customers. "

Fourthly: You state "so i feel that discover is in on this as she has answered alot of complaints on discover." Please refer back to my initial post on THIS thread: ***My views are solely the views of a long time, experienced employee and may or may not be the same as those of my company.*** I do not visit the Discover Card "gripe" board on this website at Discover's request or even with their knowledge. However, I meant what I said.
I'm a long time employee and I am here to offer the "other side of the story" so that the folks that read the "Anti-Discover" posts don't just get one SLANTED view of Discover Card.
Customers get angry at us for a variety of reasons and certainly always feel that they are "RIGHT" even if that is not the case. I'm just here to offer insight into the often vague complaints made by unhappy customers. Since you've read this board at length and have indicated you've seen my many posts, you should be able to understand what I mean. One perfect example is the guy who was angry because Discover wouldn't give a refund for a "No show" hotel stay. He slanted it in his favor, and all I did was put some balance on the "see-saw" by explaining how the "merchant/Cardholder" relationship works. Clarence is angry that we closed his mother's account, and I have simply responded with information on the way we handle incoming paperwork: what the process of review is, what might cause a closure of an account, etc.

Fifthly, you state: "i would also check your credit and see if they have run a credit check on you." Just so it is on the record, I personally have not run a credit check on Clarence. This would be difficult w/o knowing his full name, addres, etc. I realize you are not accusing me of having done so. I just want to clear up that even if his report DOES show that we've looked at his credit file, it would only be one of MILLIONS of "pre-screens" we do for something called a "pre-approved" application. EVERY person in the country is subject to these pre-screens unless he or she OPTS OUT with the credit bureaus. In other words, if you are attempting to imply that Discover might have done some sort of "retaliatory" review of his credit because of his posts, I know that that would be untrue because, again, w/o his full name, address, ssn, etc., they wouldn't be able to screen his credit file. Now, they may or may not have checked his credit in regards to the POA...I don't know if this is a requirement of POA paperwork processing or not. I doubt it, but because I do not review POAs myself, I can't be sure.

ALSO your statement:
"if they have and made any statements about your credit in their rebuttals then that is releasing private info to the public without your okay"

Response...I don't see anyplace in the thread where such statements were made.Robert might have cracked a joke about persons who "ride on their parents' credit" and I also see where I agreed with him, but I wasn't speaking specifically of Clarence. Rather, I was agreeing with that statement in GENERAL. So, nice try, but no dice.

As for checking his mother's credit, since she was a CARDHOLDER we would have had every right to check her credit up to the date when the account was closed. That's what credit companies DO to determine credit worthiness, and we state as much on both our applications AND in that SELDOM read paperwork called "THE CARDMEMBER AGREEMENT".

LASTLY, after all of the above (and the previous posts) in regards to your "SOCK IT TO THEM!!!!" I can only say "GOOD LUCK!" Because if anyone in the legal profession or with any knowledge of the legal profession has read this entire thread, they'd be hard pressed to build the big $$ case you allude to in your last post.

Still amused, K

Clarence...your buddy Winston clearly is no great "legal eagle". You bluster about suing Discover Card (or was it me?) for "slander". Well, you've got no leg to stand on. Any dictionary defines slander as: 1. malicious, false, and injurious statement SPOKEN about a person. 2. the UTTERING of such statements 3. Falso ORAL defamation.

Clarence, surely you realize I have done NONE of these things.

I think the word you were wanting to use to FALSELY accuse me is LIBEL: 1. a PUBLISHED false statement...(similar to slander, but WRITTEN not SPOKEN)

So...GET IT RIGHT before you go around the internet WRITING things that make you look foolish.

Also, for LIBEL to apply, I would have had to specifically accuse you of something. I have done no such thing. Nowhere in any of my posts did I name you and accuse you of anything. If you find a direct quote, then by all means point it out to me. What I've done, at worst, is drawn parallels between your complaint and POSSIBLE scenarios for what might have occurred (ie: "It is not infrequent for employees of the Fraud/Loss Prevention and/or Legal or Probate departments to come across unverifiable Power of Attorney documents..." That does not accuse you of anything, and it most certainly does not accuse you of fraud. Not even my statement "It is also not uncommon, unfortunately, for Discover to come across outright fakes of such documents." is not libel because it does not direct an accusation at you, it merely states a fact.

Further, I have always stated that I have not reviewed the case you speak of personally. (ie: Although I cannot say for sure what your/your mother's situation is or was...I can say that every effort is made to verify the validity/existence of such documents. If we cannot verify them, then an account may be closed either temporarily or permanently.."

Further, if you want to point fingers and play the "defamation" game, refer back to your numerous statements such as this: "...for the rip-off you did to my mother..."

"Rip-off" is defined as: 1. a fraud or swindle (Discover did not defraud or swindle your mother...we simply closed OUR account. If you read the SELDOM read cardmember agreement you will see that Discover clearly states that all accounts issued are OUR property and that credit is extended (or HELD, hence the term "CardHOLDER") as a PRIVILEGE. Those privileges can be revoked at any time by the holder OR by US.)
2. financial exploitation [also didn't happen...but as a side note, my very first response to your "issue" was directed at this very situation....the exploitation that the elderly fall victim to at the hands of persons filing false POAs. Again, I am not accusing you of this. I am merely stating (as I did in my first reply to you) the processes in place for POAs that we receive on a daily basis. We get dozens of fake POAs (forged signatures, non-existent attorney's offices, etc) each day.]

Really, Clarence, you sound like a somewhat intelligent man. But to make these sorts of mistakes (slander vs. libel, incorrect use of the term "rip-off") just makes you appear otherwise.

yes clarence,i would say that a good attorney could make a well paying case out of this.the way it was worded would make anyone think that they were saying you were commiting fraud.as you live close to the dallas/ft worth area,i would bet thatyou could fine several that would take the case as she said she would do anything for her company. so i feel that discover is in on this as she has answered alot of complaints on discover.and with discover in it ,then an attorney is going to see alot of dollar signs. i would also check your credit and see if they have run a credit check on you. if they have and made any statements about your credit in their rebuttals then that is releasing private info to the public without your okay. this is also illegal.also would check your mothers credit report too.i cannot believe that that would keep making excuses for what they did as anyone who reads this from top to bottom can see that they(discover)did wrong and are just trying to degrade you. SOCK IT TO THEM!!!!

yes clarence,i would say that a good attorney could make a well paying case out of this.the way it was worded would make anyone think that they were saying you were commiting fraud.as you live close to the dallas/ft worth area,i would bet thatyou could fine several that would take the case as she said she would do anything for her company. so i feel that discover is in on this as she has answered alot of complaints on discover.and with discover in it ,then an attorney is going to see alot of dollar signs. i would also check your credit and see if they have run a credit check on you. if they have and made any statements about your credit in their rebuttals then that is releasing private info to the public without your okay. this is also illegal.also would check your mothers credit report too.i cannot believe that that would keep making excuses for what they did as anyone who reads this from top to bottom can see that they(discover)did wrong and are just trying to degrade you. SOCK IT TO THEM!!!!

yes clarence,i would say that a good attorney could make a well paying case out of this.the way it was worded would make anyone think that they were saying you were commiting fraud.as you live close to the dallas/ft worth area,i would bet thatyou could fine several that would take the case as she said she would do anything for her company. so i feel that discover is in on this as she has answered alot of complaints on discover.and with discover in it ,then an attorney is going to see alot of dollar signs. i would also check your credit and see if they have run a credit check on you. if they have and made any statements about your credit in their rebuttals then that is releasing private info to the public without your okay. this is also illegal.also would check your mothers credit report too.i cannot believe that that would keep making excuses for what they did as anyone who reads this from top to bottom can see that they(discover)did wrong and are just trying to degrade you. SOCK IT TO THEM!!!!

yes clarence,i would say that a good attorney could make a well paying case out of this.the way it was worded would make anyone think that they were saying you were commiting fraud.as you live close to the dallas/ft worth area,i would bet thatyou could fine several that would take the case as she said she would do anything for her company. so i feel that discover is in on this as she has answered alot of complaints on discover.and with discover in it ,then an attorney is going to see alot of dollar signs. i would also check your credit and see if they have run a credit check on you. if they have and made any statements about your credit in their rebuttals then that is releasing private info to the public without your okay. this is also illegal.also would check your mothers credit report too.i cannot believe that that would keep making excuses for what they did as anyone who reads this from top to bottom can see that they(discover)did wrong and are just trying to degrade you. SOCK IT TO THEM!!!!

robert-i didnt said the nursing home takes plastic. i said more than once that the card was set up at the druggist of HER choice to pay for her meds. also if no one could take care of her then the state takes over her assets to pay for her care until it runs out and then she goes on medicaid,which then pays for her stuff. this is not just meds,but clothes,personal needs,etc.that she has to pay for on her own. The nursing home does not pay for these.and amy-i just wanted you to know that sears accepted the poa without any problems as well as the rest of her cards except discover which says alot about them. also k said that her legal dept does everything to verify a poa and i would think that talking to the attorney or the couny clerks ofc would be a good way to do this, wouldnt you? so discover is just a rif-off to eldery and disabled people.

as usual you didnt read everything and still dont know the facts,and keep making excuses for the rip-off you did to my mother. hope you dont grow old and need discover to help pay for things you need to stay alive as they will do you the same way. as i said before i pay cash for what i buy and dont need plastic.

as for your comment on me committing fraud, that could be considered slander in some ways. hope winston will let me know on this as he has a legal back ground. and my mother is still very much alive as to that comment of not letting you know when the cardholder is deceased.

and you keep dodging the facts as to why people were not contacted on the poa and why i wasnt contacted to set up to where i could have been in lubbock and have called discover and talked to her.so quit making excuses for the sorry company that discover is and the way they do elderly and disabled people.

and yes i will keep posting to let anyone who reads this know that my mother was ripped off by discover.discover was the only one of her credit cards that didnt accept the poa with no problem. so that says a lot about discover in it self

I used to work for Sears Credit. I have never heard of anyone calling a lawyers office to verify a POA. I have never seen any such thing in my 7 years working there. I don't know if it becomes Discover's responsibilty to research that it they have suspicion that the document is false, but they will often close accounts as a security measure.

They can not sit there and call every laywer's office to verify every document that comes through their office. I know at Sears documents were pretty much accepted as is unless there was suspicion that they were fraudulent. I don't think Discover would have done anything like this without reason.

Also, if they did not accept your POA as valid, then they do not have to contact you to tell you that as far as I know. That all turns around to the "you are not authorize, it is not your account" spiel, then followed by send us a valid POA. Maybe check with them on what they take as a valid POA.

Wrong Clarence. I also pay cash for everything. Sorry to burst your bubble. I threw out the plastic years ago. Have alot more $$ now because of it. On to the subject. I know how medicaid and medicare both work. I also know that private homes do not have any such requirement for the inmates to provide their own meds. The cost of them is added to the monthly bill.

Let's pretend that you are incapacitated or for any reason just not capable of covering HER Discover card bill. Do you really think any of us out here on Earth believe that when the bill doesn't get paid, the home will just let her get sick or die because she got no more meds? Of course not. They will, as they currently do now, pay for the meds themselves and pass the cost on to whomever is responsible for the bill to the home. And I have yet to find a home that takes plastic.

I had a grandmother in a very private home, 2 more in a private home, an aunt in a public one, and currently have an uncle in a private home that is VA approved. I know full well how this works. Not one of them EVER had need of a credit card. My family covered the costs for them all, including the aunt in a public home.

She had to pay what she could by liquidating all of her assets (very limited after taking care of her husband for years after he got cancer, Thanks EXXON ya rat bastards) and we took care of the rest without her knowing it. She was very proud and didn't like "charity" especially from family. And it didn't matter an iota when it was in Illinois, Maryland, Arkansas, Tennessee, or Florida. Texas is no different than any other state. Peace be with you, and take care. I know how frustrating it is to lose people slowly. God bless.

Thanks, Robert, for being a voice of reason in this thread (in addition to mine, of course!).

What you said is dead on. 99.9% of the time, when a "child" or "grandchild" takes control of an elderly person's finances, even WITH a POA, they either commit outright fraud or, in the case of a valid POA, they "forget" to tell us when the Cardholder dies and keep using the card for themselves or else blatantly ignore the guidelines of a POA.

And you are right again, Robert, when you suggest that a lot of POA's use the invalid's card for themselves because they CANNOT get credit of their own.

I fully expect that our original complainer will come back with "I've got plenty of good credit of my own, I don't need my mother's" or something similar. Fact is, he's just going to keep posting because he thinks he's right. Notice I said THINKS rather that KNOWS.

I will never know who is right in this matter, ultimately, and am gracious enough to admit there might have been some mistakes made with his mother's account. We are humans that make mistakes. Having said that, I am fairly certain we are not wrong in this case, even without having seen it, because people as vocal as this gentleman has been about his problem typically get the problem resolved in their favor with time and effort...admittedly, sometimes it takes a LOT of time on the phone/by mail to untangle such events. But in the end, when our customer is right, we absolutely take care of them. Period. The fact that he is still unhappy tells me that he didn't get HIS way...

I stand by my responsibility to protect the assests of my company and its customers. If this woman's account remained closed despite his efforts, there WAS WITHOUT A DOUBT a VALID REASON for that decision.

well i can see that robert dont know a whole lot about the laws of texas.to have your meds paid for in a nursing home you have to qualifty for medicaid. a person who owns a house, property, stocks, etc does not qualifty as this is for low income people.

so people that have the thingor things listed above have to be private pay. which means they pay for the nursing home,meds,etc. themselves as my mother has too. so before you go writing things in a rebuttal make sure you know what you are talking about.

as for me having plastic, i dont need one as i pay cash for everything. bet you cant say that. an i am the one screaming for her as she is unable to. so you and k need to learn the facts before you write or as the old saying goes (look before you leap)

robert -as before you dont know what you are talking about.person who can get medicade get thier meds paid for in a nursing home. people who have house,property,stocks,etc do not qualifly for medicad. they are private pay, which means they pay for the nursing home,meds,etc themselves.so check the facts before you write rebuttals.

robert -as before you dont know what you are talking about.person who can get medicade get thier meds paid for in a nursing home. people who have house,property,stocks,etc do not qualifly for medicad. they are private pay, which means they pay for the nursing home,meds,etc themselves.so check the facts before you write rebuttals.

robert -as before you dont know what you are talking about.person who can get medicade get thier meds paid for in a nursing home. people who have house,property,stocks,etc do not qualifly for medicad. they are private pay, which means they pay for the nursing home,meds,etc themselves.so check the facts before you write rebuttals.

I am still trying to figure out how and why SHE needs the credit card. She is in a nursing home. The nursing home provides everything she needs including medication. This is not arguable. My grandparents were all in homes, Private and public, and they never had to purchase any meds for themselves. She has NO NEED for a credit card from anyone. It appears that Clarence NEEDS the credit card. Must have looked that way to Discover too. They cancelled HER card for various reasons that Clarence has already stated and SHE is not complaining. HE is. He also states that the card is always paid up in full and on time. I doubt that. If it was, he would be able to get one in HIS name and not be using HERS. Grow up Clarence, start paying YOUR bills and one day, the credit card people will bestow upon you that horrid little slip of plastic. The fact that people who are in bankruptcy can get them says alot about the underwriting requirements they use to issue them.

your legal dept did not contact the attorney who drew up the poa as he has known mrs gosch for at least 40 yrs. her brother-in-law(a retired county offical of 36 yrs checked with the county clerks ofc and they had no contact from discover. the numbers he sent were for them to let him know that they had received the poa. so they could have called him and done this and could have found out the next time he would be in lubbock(as he lives 300 miles away) to call them and let her talk to her which they didnt.

so i dont see were he is blocking access to his mother as she may not even have a phone at the nursing home. and did they even ask him for a phone number? NO they didnt. just excuses to cover up the way they did her wrong.so K you need to read the whole thing and check all the facts before writing a rebuttal.discover gets caught and all they can do is make excuses to cover up there lousy way they do business with elderly or disabled people. and it is not always the bad ones who scream the loudest,-as you wrote before.

the good and honest also YELL at being done wrong, as my mother was.

It is our legal department that handles POAs, and I assure you they do a very thorough job of it.

As for your remark about "she couldn't hold the phone..." well, there are caregivers all over the country that are capable of holding a phone to a person's ear if that is the only challenge they face. And if that was in fact the only barrier to this particular woman using the phone, why did her son not do this for her???

Also, the author of original complaint cites "i got a letter to her today saying that they had cancelled her account because they couldnt contact her by phone. when i sent the copy i gave them 3 phone numbers to call and let me know they had recieved it."

WELL, we did not say we tried to contact HIM. We tried to contact HER. His giving us 3 phone numbers is a moot point if he's the only one answering the phone and is blocking our access to the Cardholder! Now, if we were calling a number she USED to live at, then we should have been given a phone number to contact her at the nursing home.

as a person with legal background i wonder if discover tried to contact the lawyer who made the poa as his name is on the poa or if they tried to contact the county clerks office to see if it was legally filed,which is listed on the back of the last page of the poa. doesnt look like they did.also the poa is for him to only change address or to get info on the account,nothing else.and the report doesnt say she cant talk but that she couldnt talk on the phone as she couldnt hold the phone would be my guess.and he stated that he had the card setup with the drug store to charge her meds as he lived out of town.sounds like a reasonable thing to do as there may be no other way for her to pay for them as she is unable to write.and maybe there is noone there to go pay for them.sounds like some things were not done right to me. too bad there isnt a credit abuse of the elderly or disabled law on the books for cc companies as the is a good reason to have one.

Let me get this straight. She's 84, bedridden, can't move or feed herself, talk, or do anything else. But she HAS to have a credit card. RIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHT!!! Discover cancelled her card for GOOD reason. You named all of them.

It is not infrequent for employees of the Fraud/Loss Prevention and/or Legal or Probate departments to come across unverifiable Power of Attorney documents. It is also not uncommon, unfortunately, for Discover to come across outright fakes of such documents.

Although I cannot say for sure what your/your mother's situation is or was...I can say that every effort is made to verify the validity/existence of such documents. If we cannot verify them, then an account may be closed either temporarily or permanently.

Sadly, there are many cases of elder abuse and fraud against elderly persons who cannot care for themselves. Much abuse occurs when accounts have persons acting as Power of Attorney.

All of this is to say that Discover does not close accounts willy-nilly. It is a fairly drastic step taken only when we feel the financial interests of our company AND/OR our customers are at stake.

Again, though I cannot begin to assume anything about your particular situation, I must say I've personally found one thing to be true in regards to "complaints" regarding Power of Attorney/Elderly Cardholders....

"HE (OR SHE) THAT PROTESTS SO LOUDLY MAY BE PROTESTING SO LOUDLY TO RE-DIRECT ATTENTION FROM HIS/HER OWN ACTIONS."

***My views are solely the views of a long time, experienced employee and may or may not be the same as those of my company.***