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Report: #108047

Complaint Review: Johnny Lee Chambers - Natalie Ann Chambers - Tatjana M. Guenther - Johnny Chambers Revival - Tulsa Oklahoma

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  • Reported By: littleton Colorado
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  • Johnny Lee Chambers - Natalie Ann Chambers - Tatjana M. Guenther - Johnny Chambers Revival 260230 E. 16th St. Tulsa, Oklahoma U.S.A.

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My entire family is a victim and my dad was murdered as a result of these people. I am not saying they murdered my dad but they bilked him out of $600.000.00 and then he died. We do have a civil judgement against them but so what. They are crooked theifs and need to be stopped.

We are now private investigators and hope to help others who have been devastated by a church. The proof will be when the body is exhumed which is sitting in front of the District Attorney's office in Arizona upon review. Please, please be very careful of this organization. They aspire under Johnny Chambers Revival doing revivals all over the country to bilk the flock. His wife Natalie is into witchcraft and has multiple affairs with different men. His nephew has a church in Tenn which is also crooked. It's a very sad story and if anyone has heard of them please come forward and or contact us by using the rebuttal box below.

If you get roped into their organization they will be very charming but don't fall for it. They also have ties to LeRoy Jenkins, the Greater Ministries and maybe the St. Matthews. I am looking into that.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

sorry, allowing you to give a competitors name would instigate others to just file against their competition, to only come back later to suggest their company your comments on this policy are welcome! CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

Sandy
littleton, Colorado
U.S.A.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 09/12/2004 06:50 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/johnny-lee-chambers-natalie-ann-chambers-tatjana-m-guenther-johnny-chambers-revival/tulsa-oklahoma/johnny-lee-chambers-natalie-ann-chambers-tatjana-m-guenther-johnny-chambers-revival-108047. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
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20Consumer
1Employee/Owner

#21 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Bud Chambers

AUTHOR: gretschman - ()

POSTED: Tuesday, June 04, 2013

I know the Chambers well, and remember Bud as far back as the 1950's.

I can truly say that God was with Bud in his ministry, and his services were very much on fire with the spirit.

At one time he was the nation's "top soul-winner and songwriter"!

The 70's and 80's did a number on evangelistic ministry..people became dis-enchanted with tents,and turned to the fast lane with materialism...it took a toll on Bud, and I could tell he had became more money minded, but this happened to many also.

Johnny went haywire altogether, and the last time I saw him (The Alsups church in Tulsa), he appeared to be on some kind of drugs and wearing dark glasses.

He did a "marathon" revival (over a month) there reportedly waiting on a gentleman that was coming into a lot of money..if this is true, it worked.

In addition to that I'v read reports that he was involved in "sweetheart" schemes to allure wealthy widows and widowers into confidence to obtain money.

Then I heard that Johnny fell over dead, he was way overweight.

I miss the Bud Chambers meetings of the 60's.

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#20 Consumer Suggestion

Just type in Johnny Chambers in google

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, June 17, 2009

Just type in Johnny Chambers in google and you will find all the info on this scammer! Run away fast him and his new wife Priscilla Chambers are rippoff scammers!!!!!

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#19 Consumer Suggestion

Pictures yes

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, June 17, 2009

Here are some picture of johnny and his ex but his new wife is doing the same thing. follow the link. http://www.faithfinders.peertopeer.com/index.cfm?FPA=58&ID=5&detail=1

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#18 Consumer Comment

Pictures

AUTHOR: Cautious - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, May 31, 2009

Johnny and Priscilla were guest speakers at our church and my spirit could not rest easy during their visit. So, I was looking for more information on them and their ministry and these reports came up. Are there any pictures of them or updated links? I don't want our congregation or others in the area to fall prey to their scams. Where can I find more information on them?

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#17 Consumer Suggestion

Here is the proof that the Chambers and Guenther murdered Robert Stickel

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, October 20, 2008

In the depostions Tatjana stated she didnt know or talk to the chambers here is the proof they were all in it together.

Natalie Chambers would announce periodically that Robert and Richard were elders and partners in the Chambers securing a church in Phoenix. When they did get the church at 1501 W. Peoria Ave., Natalie said that there would be about 5 or 6 partners. We never did notice or it was announced that there were more than Robert and Richard.

Natalie called us on Sunday morning, probably the day it was discovered that Robert died. Catherine answered the phone at the time and Natalie asked us to help out at the church that morning. I told her that we would be unable to do so, because it was too short of a notice to make it on time, plus we could not leave my mother alone. I asked her why and she said that Robert died and that Tatiana called and told her that they found his body that morning. I asked her what happened and if he had a heart attack; she said she didn't know what happened. She said that they were going to investigate her, because she was the last one to see him alive that previous night and he was found face down in bed. She said she saw him around 10:00p.m. that previous night. That evening service we asked Natalie what was going on and she stated again that she was going to be investigated regarding Robert's death. Natalie also stated to others in the church that night that she was going to be investigated. She was quite upset about being questioned.

About a week later, Natalie mentioned to us and others that no one from the church was allowed to attend Roberts funeral, because the family didn't want anyone from there.

Catherine and Christine noticed that on numerous occasions Robert would write out checks in large amounts of money to Natalie and Johnny to pay his tithes to the church. We overheard Natalie on various occasions prodding Robert to give her more money. Other church members knew of this too.

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#16 Consumer Suggestion

No matter how many packets you send

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, October 03, 2008

You can't send packets to dispute the TRUTH NO ONE WILL LISTEN! THE FEDERAL JUDGMENT STANDS AND WILL CONTINUE TO EARN INTREST $1.2 MILLION and growing. Lakeland fl. sure is nice to have a big ol tent revival! guess what we are getting close and will be coming for you to collect!

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#15 Consumer Comment

In response to your idiot response

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 17, 2008

Why dont you leave these people alone you ulgy fat idiots. If you think they didnt get anything from the will(go pull it up in probate) quit smoking crack and if you think they sold they house becouse of debt quit smoking crack oh ya and did I say you are a big idiot becouse if there was nothing in the will left to give it wouldnt of went to probate you idiots. And as far as law enforcement looking for them.. THEY WORK WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT. Now if you have anything else to add that isnt stupid or just plain idiotic please go ahead and e-mail them you have the e-mail address dont you? you stupid fat pigs. you are pissed becouse you cant find them. Go stalk someone who gives a s**t what you think.

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#14 Consumer Suggestion

Response to Jack a/k/a Chrismans, Stickel et al

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, September 15, 2008

News Alert: The Chrisman's of Littleton CO are on the run and noncompliant with the Colorado Secretary of State. Seems they haven't re-registered themselves as Faithfinders, Inc., & The Scam Team (which is their trade name). Another alert: They have sold their home in Littleton, CO because of debt and the FBI is after them, plus a few other law enforcement entities. GIVE YOURSELVES UP! THE FBI WANTS TO REALLY TALK TO YOU.

The Chrisman/Stickel/Brown clan are under suspicion for the death of Bob Stickel. Their motives were pure and simple -- money & greed. No one can sue the truth. The Chrisman/Stickel/Brown clan can't even get it together long enough to get it done right.

Is the spousal abuser (Jeff Chrisman) out of your life yet?

The motive behind all of the spewing out of the Chrisman's mouths is because BOB STICKEL GAVE AWAY ALLLLLLL OF HIS MONEY AND THEY DIDN'T GET A DIME.

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#13 UPDATE EX-employee responds

what do we do..?

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 03, 2008

sometimes we have to let the law take it's course.Often times,our hands are tied. Like tracking down Johnny chambers. He always seems to be on the run. We all know something has to be done..but how?.I used to work for the chambers family,and I KNOW what kind of ministry that was. It's why I got out when I did.

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#12 UPDATE Employee

Keep wishing when he dies he will be brought tio justice

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, March 06, 2008

Don't hold your breath it is people like you that keep wishing for it to happen instead of doing something that is why it won't happen until he dies then he will be brought to justice. so bye bye buda, chambers, guenther.

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#11 UPDATE EX-employee responds

used to work for the chamber's family.

AUTHOR: Tim - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Monday, February 11, 2008

I used to work for the chamber's family in oklahoma city,and i can honestly tell you that the report on Johnny doesn't surprise me. He truly scams people out of thousands of dollars,everywhere he goes. His brother Bud,along with Danny,use God as a way to gain finances,no matter what they have to do. Sadly,Bud passed away earlier last year. It is my prayer,that johnny be brought to justice.Thank you!

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#10 UPDATE Employee

Biblical Accountability

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, January 22, 2008

Read the facts.
Biblical Accountability
The Bible clearly states that Christian leaders should be accountable both to the Word of God and also to God's people, whom the leader serves. Among the requirements Paul describes for a Christian leader are that he be "blameless," and "of good behavior" (1 Tim. 3:2). A Christian leader must "have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil" (1 Tim. 3:7). This does not mean that the Christian leader is simply good at covering up his sin. Christian leaders must display integrity and honesty -- they must prove themselves worthy of Christians' trust.
The objections cited above against revealing a Christian leader's sin seem to imply that it is possible for one to have a valid Christian ministry or profession, and yet have a private life of corruption. However, the Bible explains that it is not possible for one's sinful conduct to have no negative effect on one's profession of godliness. Titus 1:6-8 summarizes the same qualifications for a Christian leader Paul gave in 1 Timothy 3, but goes on to condemn one whose says he believes, and yet whose works deny his profession of faith:

To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled. The profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work (1:15-16).
To attempt to combine immorality with godliness to produce spiritual fruit is completely contrary to scriptural teaching. In fact, Paul ranks it with "profane and vain babblings" and warns Timothy to avoid "contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge" (1 Tim. 6:20).
In addition, Jesus openly rebuked Peter when Peter argued against Jesus going to the cross (Matt. 16:22, 23). Paul writes Titus that it is the responsibility of the church to hold the leader accountable for his sin: "Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith" (Titus 1:13). Paul also commands Christians to rebuke sinning leaders publicly, "Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear" (1 Tim. 5:20). Paul took his own advice, as recorded in Galatians 2, and publicly rebuked Peter "before them all" (Gal. 2:14).
If we neglect to uncover sin within the Church, we rob the Church of the integrity it should expect from its members. The Church becomes weak through compromise, and the leader becomes weak because of his or her immorality. Fallen leaders betray the trust of those they lead. Maturity in the Lord, which is an essential part of qualifying one for spiritual leadership, can be confirmed only by an established pattern of resisting sin and walking faithfully with God, family, and others.
Second Thessalonians 5:21-22 commands us to "test all things," and Paul commended the Bereans for "searching the scriptures" to test what he himself had taught them (Acts 17:11). The Christian whose life is characterized by truth telling must support spiritual leaders whose lives exemplify Christian maturity, and must hold those leaders accountable. If a Christian leader is chosen whose life is bound by immorality, the Christian has the obligation then to expose that sin publicly since the leader is public and his actions impact the church he leads.
Fallen leaders damage the trust relationship established between them and their followers, a relationship mirroring the trusting relationship we are to have with the Lord. In addition, they break the trust relationship Peter tells us to have with the world; that is, we are to live so that even the world will note our trustworthiness and be unable to speak against us, but will, instead, glorify God (1 Peter 2:12).
It is unethical for Christians to cover up for leaders who have achieved their position through false qualifications or stories, or who are living immorally. Can the Church claim a higher ethical standard than the world when we adopt a "code of silence" worthy of the most pernicious organized crime conspiracy or even some suspected invisible satanic ring?
Some people in society have a greater responsibility for honesty and integrity than others. This does not mean that it's less wrong for one person to lie than another, but a public leader has a greater responsibility because the consequences of his failure have greater ramifications. A lay person who has a mistaken medical opinion will not affect the lives and health of as many people as a doctor with a misunderstanding of medicine.
An individual in a position of public trust surrenders his privacy regarding his suitability and trustworthiness. He has asked the public to trust him for specific reasons or qualifications. Those reasons and qualifications are open to public scrutiny. If the leader is trustworthy, they will withstand examination. If he is not, close examination will reveal their inadequacies. Christians who are committed to truth must preserve this fundamental right and obligation to know in whom they are asked to trust.
The examples of Jesus and his disciples' commitment to truthfulness and integrity gives us our model for investigative Christian journalism and for holding our Christian leaders accountable. If we do not expose false testimonies and revisionist histories, especially when they are propagated by Christians, then all truth claims and all historical knowledge comes into doubt. We can have no certainty of the truth of Christianity or the objective reality of the resurrection. In the first century, the apostle Paul could claim that the resurrection "was not done in a corner" (Acts 26:26). Should Christians be so careless with the truth that we need to hide our corrupt leaders "in a corner" to preserve the faith rather than speak the truth and call those corrupt leaders to repentance and reconciliation? God forbid!

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#9 UPDATE EX-employee responds

That is why Bud is in Marjoe

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, January 22, 2008

I really dont care what you say they are ripoffs and untill they pay the judgment then they are all guilty. The family lets Johnny preach at the church in tulsa so dont tell me that they know nothing about his scams. We are commanded to publicly expose these people and it is in the bible read it. I am glad I dont want to know any of these people. Tell the family to give back the money they stole and this will all stop.

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#8 Consumer Comment

The Chamber Family Are Good People

AUTHOR: Julia - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, January 18, 2008

I use to work for Bud Chambers. I was his secretary for 8 years. I knew his mother, his brothers including Johnny, and his son and his family. I did the books for Bud Chambers and I know that he was not rich. He paid his bills just like everyone else. He made yearly trips to Mexico and the orphanage down. He supplied the three b's bibles, beans, and baby clothes. He provided more than that such as clothes for the parents and other children. Bud is now passed on and his name and his sons name need to stay out of the papers and out of these reports. I am very close to the Chamber family. I have only met Natalie a few times and never got into there personal lives. As for Bud, He was my best friend and Mentor. He would do anything for anyone, even if others thought he was getting played. You people on here do not know him and now never will. Leave Bud's son, Johnny's nephew out of what ever Johnny and his wife Natalie has done because I am Going to guarantee that he knows nothing about what has happened. As for Bud let him rest in Peace. As for the stolen car thing, it was not the FBI, it was the police and no he did not know it was stolen. he never got into trouble like that again. Bud did not need to steal money or anything else from anyone. He lived off of his royalties from the over 3000 gospel songs he had wrote. I am asking that if you have issues the Johnny and Natalie please leave the rest of the family out of it. Bud was the most honest and upright man i have known and i have known him since i was three and he is even my sons God-Father.......Thank You, Julia

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#7 UPDATE Employee

With the scams the Chambers pull!

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, December 12, 2007

This story is common with these people. Without contact information or a name why would we care? This is classic set up that the Chambers use by playing the victim such as your email. If you are serious then email us at faithfindersinc@yahoo.com. If you don't respond then we will know.

Thanks

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#6 Consumer Comment

I knew the Chambers, Johnny, Bud, Danny

AUTHOR: Whatuknow - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Around 1970, 71, My dad had what could be considered wealth, a good photography business, his own private plane, ect.. He met Bud Chambers and Johnny, and all that changed. (we lost it all or gave it up) we uprooted the family and moved to OK to follow Bud.

Overall he was a good guy but It was all about the money and wealth little did we know.. Bud Had his own problems shortly after that with the FBI.. seems he was purchasing stolen cars.. at really good deals. Cadillacs, lincoln's, nice prestige type cars, flashy.

Johnny also drove nice flashy cars, of coarse Bud claimed he didn't know they were stolen but I ask my dad shortly after he passed away if he thought Bud knew they were stolen and he told me without a doubt that Bud knew he was buying stolen cars, Johnny, I always remember Johnny wore real flasy rings and 3 piece suits in those days.

Danny has managed to keep his nose clean, but I believe the only reason he is a preacher is he didn't know anything else or have an education, I don't know if he ever got his high school diploma as he was taking correspandets(sp) coarses all his childhood to try and complete his schooling. He was involved with Benny Hinn for a while (my view is he probably saw dollar signs from God in that ministry)

If they make you feel good about giving your money to them then they have done thier job. overall it is a business to them

Many people put their faith and lives in these people and lose sight that it is God they need to keep faith with.

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#5 UPDATE Employee

Not about Danny

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, September 12, 2007

If you look nowhere is danny chambers in this judgment this is about Johnny and his troupe that scam people and that he and his evil trio marked this man and took his life savings. So when you talk to johnny tell him to give the money back and all this will go away. If not we will keep doing what we have been doing for 11 years one day he will die and then he will be judged. Read the new it is all over the papers and the internet just put his name and ex-wife in and you will see what we are talking about.

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#4 Consumer Comment

Johnny Chambers nephew

AUTHOR: Zacksgranny - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, September 11, 2007

To the lady who reported that her father had been ripped off by Johnny and Natalie Chambers. I want to say I have no knowledge of what happened in Arizona, but I have know the Chambers family for many years now, and the nephew in Tennesee, well I know him and his wife personally, and even know their children.

I knew Johnny Chambers brother (Bud), for about 45 years, and had the opportunity to work for him for a few years, I also know many of the other family members personally. The one thing that I really want to say is, that nephew in Tennesee, is very much the real thing, and he does not rip people off, he does not beg people for money, he does have a great ministry, and he does a lot of good for the Youth of America.

I have known Johnny for many years, but I have not been around him for a long time, and I really don't know his wife Natalie all that well, but the Johnny Chambers I knew growing up, and the one I knew as a young adult, would never have done anything like this, as I cannot commit on this particular case with Johnny and Natalie, I can and will stand up for the nephew in Tennesee.

Thank You
Barbara

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#3 UPDATE Employee

Chris and Catherine Buda liars in need of serious mental help.

AUTHOR: Jack - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Wednesday, August 08, 2007

The budas posted this rebuttal and are liars cons thiefs and work for the chambers they are sick twisted people and they will be put in jail they have been issued a warning from elder angles to stop using the name and referance of elder angles they are about to go down and spend time with the chambers. What ever you do if you have contact with the budas or CHAMBERS contact us THE FBI WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU! BY THE WAY WE HAVE A FEDERAL JUDGMENT ON THESE PEOPLE IN THE AMOUNT OF 800,000.00 and it will keep growing !

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#2 Consumer Comment

Faithfinders - The Scam Team -- Chrisman/ Stickel families involved (((about op)))

AUTHOR: Bob - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Sunday, July 22, 2007

Bob Stickel was not murdered as the Stickel/Chrisman/Brown families are trying to insinuate. The death certificates states that he died of a heart attack and nothing else, or maybe not the case since it was strongly suggested that these family members take a lie detector test.

The Chrisman's are none other then Faithfinders, Inc -- The Scam Team who are UNLICENSED private investigators from Littleton Colorado. Several family members have been convicted of drugs and violent behavior. There is a high amount of evidence posted in the courts (Oklahoma, Arizona and Colorado) that will corroborate that this is true. Faithfinders, Inc has posted pictures of underage children, sent porn emails to witnesses, filed false reports, advertise that they are a collections agency/judgment collections; which they cannot be because they are not licensed in any state to do business. The real kicker is they advertise that they do legal and more. In other words, they profess to be attorneys.

The Chrismans are also doing business with Haven Ministries of Colorado to hide behind a religious organization just like the Chambers have done. They are trying to show they have credibility. The Chrismans are very charming at first, but don't fall for it. If you do not agree with them, they will turn on you by sending your confidential information to an opposing side. Faithfinders Inc practices witchcraft and there are multiple marriages/divorces that run in this family just like the Chambers.

The Chrismans are thieves who con their clients into believing that they were scammed, but there is evidence that they extorted money from a elderly pastor in Arizona who was given that money by Bob Stickel. Since their father did not will them any money, they want what they believe is theirs.

The Chrismans/Stickels/Browns family members have and continue to do illegal background searches, obtaining social security numbers illegally, doing drugs, false advertising to get a client and slander/libel against innocent people.

Faithfinders, Inc has ties to Haven Ministries so they can be protected by a 501 (3)(c). On other websites, the Chrismans/Stickels/Browns will use racial slurs and anti-Semitic remarks.

Faithfinders, Inc has taken down their website so they won't get caught. It is now a little too late. They have been caught and reported to four other states for illegal business practices.

DO NOT CONTACT FAITHFINDERS, INC OR THE CHRISMANS IF YOU HAVE BEEN A VICTIM OF THE CHAMBERS OTHERWISE YOU WILL BECOME ANOTHER VICTIM OF THE CHRISMANS.

If you have been scammed by the Chrismans report them to police in Colorado and the state that you live in. Don't let them get away with it. Identity theft MUST be stopped.

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#1 Author of original report

BUSTED- Johnny and Natalie Chambers Busted. (Buddas trying to help Guenther get out of judgment)

AUTHOR: Sandy - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 29, 2007

BUSTED! PLEASE READ THIS IS A STORY ABOUT TATJANA GUENTHER AND JOHNNY AND NATALIE CHAMBERS. AFTER YOUR DONE READING THE FIRST ARTICLE THERE IS ANOTHER ARTICLE ON THE CHAMBERS AND GUENTHER. GUENTHER COMMITTED A SWEETHEART SCAM ACCORDING TO THE SCOTTSDALE TIMES AND JOHN DICKERSON.

Love Suckers
- John Dickerson
Romance swindlers are leaving Valley seniors with empty wallets and broken hearts. That is, when they leave them alive.

Walter Nellis knows how to identify and attack an enemy target. The 82-year-old s****.> Nellis had barely finished squeezing a lemon into his iced tea when he was approached by an attractive, olive-skinned woman who acted like she knew him. How are you? she asked. Its been so long, she said, smiling and taking a chair at Nelliss table.

Nellis's thick eyebrows rose in surprise. You must have me confused with someone else. I dont believe I know you, he told the woman in his characteristically shaky voice.

Persisting, the attractive young woman introduced herself as Rose and asked about Nellis's deceased wife. Well, unfortunately she passed away two years ago, Nellis said.

Rose's face filled quickly with a forced empathy as she reached out to caress Nellis's hand and express her condolences.

Rose insisted she had met Nellis before and said that like Nellis, she too was lonely. It would be so nice to have somebody just to go shopping with or to watch movies with, she said.

Rose had in fact never met Nellis prior to running into him that day. She had followed him from the parking lot, where she saw him park his white Mercedes convertible. But Rose is no run-of-the-mill gold digger searching for a generous sugar daddy. She's a career con artist who travels the country conning elderly men out their valuables and occasionally their entire life savings. She currently resides in Chandler with her husband, who often plays the role of her brother in her elaborate ruses.

Once she empties a retiree's coffers, she moves to another pension-rich state, like Florida or Nevada, where she changes her name and begins her search for another lonely widower.

Rose is one of a band of con artists who have infiltrated the Southwest, perpetrating what law enforcement officials call the Sweetheart Scam, a confidence-gathering con that preys on the loneliness of elderly widowers.

According to police, con artists like Rose are finding plenty of suckers in the Valley.

Sweetheart scammers can make off with cars, jewelry and even life insurance payouts. Documented cases in Arizona have recorded swindlers making off with between $30,000 and $500,000. Since the swindlers are taking nothing by force, they're rarely prosecuted as criminals. In most cases, the victims' families are completely unaware of the scam or the scammers.

COMING TO A BINGO HALL NEAR YOU

The Phoenix Police Department has several instances where the male victims lost hundreds of thousands of dollars and were left stranded in another state,Phoenix police say of Sweetheart Scams. Most citizens are not aware that this scam is occurring, but it is actually quite popular.

Speaking from her Colorado office, Rhoda Cook agrees. She is the founder of Citizens United to Find Fugitives (CUFF) and says she fields about 20 Sweetheart Scam reports each week from across the nation.

Cook and Phoenix police both say the majority of Sweetheart Scams go unreported because the victims feel embarrassed and emotionally devastated. We have dealt with so many victims, I have about lost track of the number, Cook says.

The gypsy perpetrator knows that elderly men are lonely. Usually the victims have been widowed for several years. The Phoenix metropolitan area is a jackpot-rich environment for finding elderly people,the Phoenix police add.

After first meeting Walter Nellis at Sweet Tomatoes, Rose's attempt to scam the Scottsdale retiree unfolded like a page right out of the Sweetheart Scam textbook. When Nellis mentioned he might see a movie, Rose replied, Oh, I love watching movies. I just can't bear to go alone.

Within two weeks, Rose had called Nellis to request his help in purchasing a car. That's when Nellis contacted The Times, wondering why a young, attractive woman would be so interested in him and his money.

In reality, Rose hails from a family notoriously engaged in an array of mafia-like organized crimes. The family owns large estates in Nevada and, when legally charged, hires high-dollar attorneys to avoid prosecution. One of Rose's brothers is wanted for murder, while her sister is suspiciously linked to the Sweetheart Scam death of a retiree who signed over his life insurance policy before dying.

SELLING THE FAMILY FARM

Other Valley residents haven't been as lucky as Walter Nellis. Scottsdale retiree Bob Stickel lived just miles from Nellis. He was swindled out of more than $300,000 before dying a what his family calls a suspicious death at age 72.

When Stickel first met the woman who introduced herself as Tatjana, he was grieving the death of his wife of 50 years. Stickel's adult children say they were suspicious of Tatjana from day one, but didn't want to step on their grieving father's toes. Daughter Sandy Chrisman remembers the first time she met Tatjana, during a dinner at Houston's on Scottsdale Road.

Tatjana didn't fit the slim, attractive stereotype of most sweetheart scammers. She was a large woman and looked like she used to be a guy,Chrisman says. But Tatjana was friendly and affectionate. She quickly became the aging widower's best friend, accompanying him to doctor's appointments, garage sales and religious meetings.

She's gonna take his money and kill him, Sandy's husband Jeff Chrisman said as they drove away from Houston's that first night. Now he wishes he'd been wrong.

Bob Stickel was a simple, pleasant grandfather of a man, an Illinois farm boy who had moved to Scottsdale to raise his four children. He spent his career working as a maintenance man for Scottsdale Public Schools. Stickel awoke at 5:30 each morning in his Scottsdale townhouse. He prepared his own concoction of zoup in the kitchen and read his Bible, taking notes and drinking green tea.

Shortly after he met Tatjana, Stickel suddenly and uncharacteristically sold the working farm that had been in the family for eight generations. Over the course of the following year, Stickel would ask Tatjana to marry him twice. Tatjana never took his hand in marriage, but she did take plenty of his money.

Two years later, Bob Stickel was dead, and the family couldn't find more than a few thousand dollars of the $500,000 from the farm he had sold.

Sitting today at the Old Town Scottsdale Village Inn where her dad used to eat, Stickel's daughter Debby holds a sheaf of papers. The contents document the nearly $500,000 Stickel paid out in the year after he sold the farm.

The bundle of receipts and bank records includes one check for $148,000 written to Transnation Title. The money was a down payment on a house somewhere, but Transnation Title won't say what home or where because Stickel isn't listed as a buyer or seller. He simply wrote the check for $148,000. The stack of statements is full of such unsolved mysteries.

Debby says the thing that bothered her most was Tatjana's apparent effort to mimic Stickel's deceased wife. After she saw pictures of mom, she changed her hair to look like mom's,Debby says. When we talked about mom loving garage sales, Tatjana suddenly started taking dad to garage sales.

Unlike most Sweetheart Scam victims, the Stickel family has won a $300,000 civil suit against Tatjana, who has been difficult to track down. They have yet to collect on it and say justice is still far from being served. Stickel's other children agree; it's too odd a coincidence that Tatjana was the last person in Bob Stickel's bedroom the day he died unexpectedly.

Dad always slept on his back, Debby says. When we found him that morning he was laying on his stomach with his arms out like he'd been trying to push himself up. The Stickels did not request an autopsy, and didn't learn that their father's money was gone until after the funeral. Scottsdale authorities have since denied requests to exhume the body.

She had seen Bob and targeted him for money, Sandy says of Tatjana, who was most recently spotted in Oklahoma. People in her life tend to die mysteriously. Her mom got sick with E. coli and died. These people that Tatjana hangs around with, their associates have been known to die quite suddenly.

Unfortunately, the family's suspicions will probably never be substantiated. Tatjana will likely never face criminal charges because Stickel willingly gave his savings away.

He was lonely, and us kids could only keep him so busy,Debby says. He was used to giving to mom. She moved right into that spot after mom died. He got taken.

FLYING JUST UNDER THE LEGAL RADAR

The Stickel family's civil judgment against Tatjana is extremely rare. Few sweetheart scammers see any penalty for their actions.

There is much more to this epidemic than just the victims' tragedies,CUFF founder Rhoda Cook says. The heart of this matter is the criminal justice system's perspective on these frauds. It is one of the reasons why it is so easy and productive these days to use love as a lure for profit.

In her years following Sweetheart Scams, Cook has seen only one swindler serve jail time a con woman who scammed a California man out of $400,000 is currently serving four years for the crime.

Right now we have a lot of people who realize how easy it is to lie to somebody to get their money, Cook says. We want to get the public mad enough to motivate law enforcement to do something.

Cook says many Valley retirees are specifically being targeted, not only at casinos and shopping centers but also through Internet dating sites. A lot of older people in Scottsdale are finding other people on Web sites. People are getting conned on almost every senior site, Cook says.

Our whole purpose is that we recognize that fraud is not being investigated. Police need to be educated as to what it is and get these con artists off the streets, Cook adds.

The Phoenix Police Department, one of the few to target Sweetheart Scams, agrees that sweetheart scammers are slippery.

Prosecution is often difficult because the victim is reluctant to assist, or his memory is so poor that he makes a bad witness, Phoenix Police Organized Crime experts say.

Cook says the scammers know they won't go to jail and confidently move from one scam to another. If they're ever caught, the scammers simply say they were befriending the victim and then give the gifts back.

TIL DEATH DO US PART

In 1944, while Walter Nellis was parachuting into Germany, another World War II veteran, Al Dobelstein, was also fighting for the Allied Forces. Three years ago, Dobelstein was approached by a sweetheart scammer who coincidentally used the same name, Rose.

Rose used many of the same tactics employed just weeks ago on Nellis in the Valley. Only for Dobelstein, the setting wasn't a Sweet Tomatoes but a horse track near Tacoma, Washington. By the time Dobelstein's daughter Candice met Rose, her father was already paying Rose's phone bills and her mortgage.

My dad would complain about her doing things with other guys, Candice Dobelstein says. Now I know it's because Rose was actually married the whole time.

The textbook Sweetheart Scam involves the scammer's husband, who poses as a brother or uncle. In Dobelstein's case, as with Nellis in Scottsdale, Rose introduced her tall, intimidating husband as her brother.

It wasn't until after her father's death that Candice learned he had bought a house for Rose as well as a brand-new Ford Mustang convertible. Dobelstein had also cashed out three separate $100,000 life insurance policies for the sweet-talking temptress.

She had him so manipulated he just couldn't see what was going on. These scammers got a lot of money. They moved on. Nothing was done, Dobelstein says. It's amazing how many people have come to me, having been taken by these women, she says.

These women are professional. Gypsy scammers are groomed for this from an early age, and there are a whole lot more non-gypsy scammers out there using the same Sweetheart Scam tactics, Dobelstein adds.

Dobelstein says she thinks about her dad's scam every day, not just because the perpetrators took his life savings, but because the authorities haven't pressed any charges in his suspicious death.

Al Dobelstein was discovered naked on the floor of his home, wearing only a sock. When he was taken to the intensive care unit of an area hospital, Candice discovered Rose had obtained her father's power of attorney. I actually had to win guardianship of my own father in court, she says.

It was then that Dobelstein learned Rose had a social security number with her father's last name and was receiving his pension payments.

Too often the police act like these old men were going to die anyway, Dobelstein says. These crimes won't stop until laws are enforced. These are a low priority to law enforcement. That's what many victims have been told.

To their credit, detectives in Dobelstein's case did interview Rose about the assets she acquired before Al Dobelstein's death. Rose maintained the assets were all gifts. Candice Dobelstein says that's hard to believe. When her dad lay dying and unconscious in the hospital, Rose snuck in and slipped his gold watch off his wrist, replacing it with a Timex.

Today, another victim's daughter calls from Las Vegas. Her father has already been scammed out of $40,000 and a brand-new Ford Thunderbird, but he's so emotionally roped in that she has to monitor his phone calls.

The Vegas scammer has been interviewed by detectives, but she still telephones the widower, asking for money. Las Vegas detectives say the con artist is not alone in the Southwest. She has a sister named Rose. m

If you or someone you know may be involved in a Sweetheart Scam, contact the police.

Copyright 2007, Strickbine Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved.

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Pastor served during service
BILL SHERMAN World Religion Writer
11/11/2006
Tulsa World (Final Home Edition), Page A1 of News

The Rev. Johnny Chambers (left) is served with court papers by process server Tim Greshem on Friday while Chambers preaches during a Bible study at Century Cathedral. A federal court judgment asserts that Chambers and two others bilked an elderly Arizona man out of his life savings. MICHAEL WYKE / Tulsa World
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Correction
A secondary headline on this referred to the Rev. Johnny Lee Chambers and his former wife, not his current wife. Chambers and his former wife Natalie Ann Chambers were sued by a woman who said they charged thousands of dollars to her credit card.


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The subpoena stems from a civil suit alleging the man conspired to improperly obtain an Arizona man's life savings.
An evangelist conducting a revival service Friday morning in Tulsa was issued a subpoena that stems from a federal lawsuit claiming that he and two others bilked an elderly Arizona man out of his life savings.

The Rev. Johnny Lee Chambers, who has lived in the Tulsa area and has held evangelistic meetings here on and off since 1993, was ordered four years ago by the U.S. District Court in Arizona to repay $314,994 plus interest to the estate of Robert Stickel.

Chambers has been conducting revival meetings for the past several weeks at Century Cathedral, 1212 S. 129th East Ave., a church pastored by his sister and brother-in-law, Geraldine and Bob Alsup.

When private process server Tim Greshem walked to the pulpit Friday morning, Chambers glanced at the papers, said, "Praise the Lord," and returned to his message.

The civil suit alleges that Chambers, his then-wife Natalie Chambers and Tatjana Guenther conspired to obtain money from Stickel by improper means, and exercised "undue influence and other improper means" to induce Stickel to contribute the bulk of his life savings to the Chamberses.

Guenther was a younger woman who befriended Stickel when he was older than 70.

The suit states that Guenther introduced Stickel to Johnny and Natalie Chambers, who developed a relationship of trust with him.

The suit alleges the three misrepresented to Stickel that the funds he gave would be used for religious work, and instead converted them to their own personal use.

Dale A. Gaar, a Denver attorney representing the Stickel estate, said that the Chamberses and Guenther did not respond to the suit, and that in April 2002 the court awarded a default judgment in favor of the Stickel estate.

"We never got to argue the merits of the case," Gaar said.

Lynn Stickel, a retired Homeland Security customs and border protection officer living in Arizona, is executor of his father's estate. He said his father's money came from the sale of the family farm in Illinois.

He said he and his sisters were extremely upset when Guenther moved in with their father in the fall of 1997.

About two months later, on Dec. 14, 1997, his father died. The death certificate listed the cause of death as a heart attack.

Sandy Chrisman of Littleton, Colo., Robert Stickel's youngest daughter, said she and her brother and sister were shocked to find he had only about $1,000 remaining in his bank accounts, insufficient money for a funeral.

Debbie Brown, the older daughter, was living with her father and Guenther when he died.

She said she had great respect for her father, but "I didn't realize how gullible he was.

"It was all so traumatic," she said. "I've chosen different ways to heal from it all. I knew that someday God would have his vengeance. Dad was pure in his heart."

The subpoena served Friday requires Johnny Chambers to produce documentation of his assets, including copies of his federal tax returns, deeds to all property he owns, all current and past contracts for which he is owed money, cancelled checks, titles for all vehicles, and credit card statements.

Chambers is ordered to appear Nov. 28 with the documents at the Tulsa office of Lyons, Clark & Mensching Inc.

Attorney Pat Mensching, representing the estate of Robert Stickel, said the subpoenas require defendants to appear "in aid of execution of the judgment."

He said the court has a procedure to hold someone accountable for failure to honor a subpoena.

In theory, that eventually could lead to arrest warrants being issued, he said, but "I've never had one go that far, especially in the federal court system."

Contacted by phone after the Friday service, Johnny Chambers said, "The thing we are very upset about is that they disrupted the service. This is a religious service, and I'm an ordained minister.

"That's all the statement I'm going to make," he said.

Guenther was served a subpoena Friday afternoon.

She said in an interview at her apartment near 51st Street and Memorial Drive that she did not introduce Stickel to the Chamberses, as the suit claims, but that Stickel invited her to their revival services in Arizona.

"At first, it seemed OK," she said, but she was offended "when they started to collect people's cars and jewelry."

She said she "couldn't stand" the Chamberses and begged Stickel to stop going to their meetings.

She said she and Stickel were prayer partners and friends, and she was upset when he died.

Chambers conducted revival meetings in Tulsa in 1993, 1998, 1999 and 2000, most of them at Century Cathedral.

Chambers' only son, Johnny Lee Chambers II, living in Reno, Nev., said his parents were divorced, and his father married Mary Ann Tyson, who changed her name to Natalie Ann Chambers.

The Stickel family members are not the only ones to sue the Chamberses.

On Oct. 10, 2003, Johnny and Natalie Chambers were sued by a woman who said they had charged $12,582 on her credit card and had refused to pay it back.

Eva Sweat told the court she agreed to let the Chamberses use her card to charge $2,000, with the agreement that they would pay her back. The suit alleges they exceeded the agreed amount by more than $10,000, and cut off contact with her. Five months later, the court entered a default judgment against the Chamberses for the amount charged plus interest and attorney fees of $1,250.

Jeff Chrisman, husband of Sandy Chrisman, said he has gotten a measure of closure from seeing the subpoena filed on Chambers.

"We've been chasing this guy for nine years," he said.

The Chrismans are involved in a ministry, Haven Ministries in Littleton, to help people who are victims of what they call "religious affinity fraud," exploiting the trust, friendship and tight-knit structure of people in religious groups.


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