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Report: #337937

Complaint Review: PayPal - San Jose California

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  • Reported By: Miami Florida
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  • PayPal 2145 Hamilton Avenue San Jose, California U.S.A.

PayPal, E-bay I Filed SIGNIFICANTLY NOT AS DESCRIBED claim and lost against their own rules. Nobody read it San Jose, California

*Consumer Suggestion: contact comsumer affairs person at your TV station

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I bought a Laptop in E-Bay, and they pushed me coff!, adviced me to open a SNAD (Significantly Not As Described) dispute on PayPal.

The Laptop had a non-working screen, and a fresh (done during the last 3 monts) liquid damage. There were stains on the palm-rest and other areas where wouldn't survive any stain if the laptop were working. That means, Seller knew Laptop was damaged, but didn't described it. He used fake photo to show it working, said screen problem was "a few red lines at the bottom" but it didn't show any image. Completely un-repairable. Keyboard had red stains and slow-motion effect because of the sugar Seller pretended to have used last year description and photo when the laptop was working, but it ended up being a screen capture and seller admitted photo was stolen from another auction.

Bottom line, the laptop was not the model stated, obviously he couldn't read specs from system since it wasn't working at all. Here's the whole description http://www.mirnareiki.com/coffe-laptop/actual_photos.html

PayPal disputes department decided my case was not a SNAD. They kept their decision unchanged when I appealed, and didn't notify me about them.

In their words:
"Based on our definition of significantly not-as-described, this claim does not qualify for a refund.We found the seller to have accurately represented
the item(s) in question."

If to intentionally describe an item as "not properly working" when knowing it's dead doesn't qualify as a SNAD, being a wrong model should make it!

Item described: 1.67Ghz processor. (4th generation, 2005)
Item shipped: 1.25Ghz processor. (A whole different laptop, 1st generation, 2001)

PayPal's definition of SNAD is:
" if the seller clearly misrepresented the details of the item in a way that affects its value or usability"


The main reason why PayPal didn't catch the SNAD is because THEIR PROTECTION SYSTEM DOESN'T WORK AT ALL.

The reasons why it doesn't work could be:

- Lazy/stupid employees

- Automated decisions (I've got automated replies saying "We are sorry about your seller not shipping you the item problem" when the problem was not even close.

- Disputes resolution people DON'T SEE the actual listing. Processor's speed and other specs are not seen in THEIR system, as well as links you may include to show actual photos of received item. They don't have internet access when you ask for it, although they say to have it when you mention that's the reason why they missed your case.

- Disputes agentes looking for the word "broken" in auction and blind-folding themselves from that point on, not seeing other differences.

- Disputes being based in "refund fairness arbitration" so PayPal would decide if the refund was fair or not, not knowing nor having the whole info about item/auction!

- Disputes being based in "WORKING" or "NOT WORKING" only, regardless of the item being a Ferrari and being shipped a Ford.

PayPal had 4 chances to catch it.
1st) when I first submitted the complaint
2nd) when I emailed them 30 days later (they said they'd take 30 days) explaining them all clearer and went right to the point
3rd) when they asked me for extra proofs, and
4th) when I appealed.
Not to mention my other appeals, which I didn't get any email from.

All my claims included a link to a page including actual photos and seller's emails admitting the laptop was that different, was crashed and used fake photo: http://www.mirnareiki.com/coffe-laptop/actual_photos.html

It's not only some PayPal lazy employee missing the SNAD. It's the whole staff hanging up your calls, redirecting you to nowhere, admitting they can't see the processor model but pretending do when you tell them they may have missed your SNAD because of that.

The most probable reason why they don't want to change the decision now is because after PayPal error seller must have withdrawn the money off the PayPal account to make a celebration party for his scam, and now PayPal can't get more than $200.

Sergio
Miami, Florida
U.S.A.

Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on PayPal

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/06/2008 09:58 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/paypal/san-jose-california-95125/paypal-e-bay-i-filed-significantly-not-as-described-claim-and-lost-against-their-own-rule-337937. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#1 Consumer Suggestion

contact comsumer affairs person at your TV station

AUTHOR: Nancy - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, June 06, 2008

it might jsut help. It helpe a person here in Seattle. read on KIRO Tv helped hin

Bill Brush feels as if he's been banished from one of the world's largest online networks -- eBay -- because of an ongoing dispute with PayPal.

"It's very frustrating," said Brush. I'm just an account number that owes them money. And they've made the decision, and that decision is unbendable. So I'm stuck."

Late last year, Brush, a computer security professional in Tacoma, sold one of his many personal laptops on eBay.

The buyer, from New Zealand, swooped in at the last moment and bought the Thinkpad T-60 for more than $800.

So Brush packed it up, headed to his local post office, and sent it off.

"When I came home, there was an e-mail waiting for me from PayPal saying that the transaction had been frozen and they recommended that I didn't ship the laptop," said Brush.

Brush rushed back to the post office and got his computer. He waited while PayPal investigated the New Zealand buyer.

Ten days later, PayPal told Brush the buyer was cleared and the transaction was good to go, so he mailed the laptop again and assumed all was fine until a month later PayPal e-mailed him to say that the buyer had filed a claim against Brush, claiming the laptop had never arrived.

"PayPal had basically frozen my account, put it into a limited-access mode, and basically told me that I needed to send some proof that I had shipped this laptop and that I had done my part," said Brush.

So Brush sent a copy of the U.S. Postal Service receipt to the investigators at PayPal showing that the computer had been delivered in New Zealand.

"I figured the case was pretty much closed at that point. I thought I had done everything I needed to do," Brush told KIRO 7 Consumer Investigator Amy Clancy.

"Because you had confirmation from the U.S. Postal Service that this laptop had been delivered?" asked Clancy.

"Correct," Brush said.

But it apparently wasn't enough because, a month later, even though the buyer had been investigated before, Brush was notified that PayPal had sided with that buyer in New Zealand.

Brush was ordered to refund the buyer's more than $800, something he refused to do, because he feels the receipt is proof he held up his end of the bargain.

"I sent some e-mails off to PayPal. They were basically not replied to. I sent a couple of follow-ups. They were not replied to. And then eventually, they sent me to collections," said Brush. "There's going to be a certain hit to my credit account and my credit score over a relatively low sum of money."

Brush says his frustration is now compounded because no one at PayPal will even hear his side of the story.

"My phone calls get funneled directly into the collection agency, and it's impossible for me to talk to PayPal right now," said Brush.

But when KIRO 7 Consumer Investigators contacted PayPal, our calls and e-mails were returned immediately.

A spokeswoman says she's "very sorry that Mr. Brush had a frustrating experience," that the mistake was "human error," and that customer calls and e-mails are typically returned within 24 hours.

It was not what Brush experienced.

"There was no means of communication with them at all," said Brush.

And Brush isn't alone.

Between 2000 and 2006, the Washington State Attorney General's office received 126 complaints about PayPal.

The AG's office took action, forcing PayPal to more clearly disclose all terms and obligations.

Entire Web sites, some with names that can't be shown on television, bash PayPal for how it treats its customers, and a California judge has ruled that upset consumers shouldn't fight PayPal in blogs online, but should sue in court.

But since Brush contacted KIRO 7, his PayPal account has been restored and he no longer owes any money to collections.

Still, he's soured on the entire experience.

"I tried to do everything that I could to be an honest seller and to do what I was supposed to do -- and then to be cheated like that? It really turns you off to the entire Internet buying and selling process," said Brush.

Brush says he'll sell online again, but won't use eBay or PayPal, and will most likely only deal with local buyers.

Meanwhile, the PayPal spokeswoman told Clancy that with nearly 150 million customers, some are bound to be unhappy.

Still, when Clancy asked, "With thousands of customer service representatives, why, not one of them could return Brush's e-mail or phone calls?" She did not have an answer.

PayPal stands by its dispute resolution practices and says the best way to ensure you're protected is with signature confirmation upon delivery.

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