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Report: #245693

Complaint Review: Wachovia Bank - New York New York

  • Submitted:
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  • Reported By: New York New York
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  • Wachovia Bank 42nd And Second Avenue New York, New York U.S.A.
  • Phone: 917-332-3620
  • Web:
  • Category: Banks

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The "Double Hold Banking Scam.

This is where a bank like Wachovia will change the date of your actual debit card purchase when they pay the charge to reflect a day or two after the actual date it was charged. This creates a temporary double hold on the available funds, which does not appear on the account but it reduces the available funds behind the scene not visible to the client. When the bank posts the payment(s), they change the initial charge date to the double hold date. However, the account summary still reflects a balance and date of when the initial hold was applied. Since the client only sees the initial hold on the account summary, they are not the wiser. If they are even wise enough to question why the charge date was change when it was paid by the bank, they are told because the merchant double billed. Yet, there is never a record of the double billing for that new date, and the account summary still displays a date and balance of the initial hold.


After the double hold is applied on a specific date after the initial charge date, any additional debit card charges or checks posted on that specific double hold date may take the account into overdraft and overdraft fees are applied. When the bank makes the payment, the double hold is removed and the initial charge date is changed on the posted payment (The new hold date is then recorded on the right hand side of the payment). However, the account summary will still display the initial charge date and balance to not awaken the client. The overdraft fees are applied for that specific double hold date and if the overdraft fees took the account into overdraft, the client is charged bank fees on the payment date. When a client calls the bank to inquire, they are told that when charges came in on the double hold date (new charge date), there was not enough available balance to pay the charge. Therefore, they were overdrawn and thus the overdraft fees.


The following example will demonstrate how the Double Hold Banking Scam can take a $100 bank balance and only $90 in charges and transfer it into a negative -$25 bank balance when the actual balance should be $10.



The Double Hold Bank Scam Example:

Starting Available Balance: $100
Charge#1 $60
Charge#2 $30



4/18/07 Initial hold of $60 - This is noted in the debit card hold section and the account summary reflects a
Posted Balance of $100 and an Available Balance of $40

4/18/07 Available balance $40



4/19/07 Double hold $60 - This is NOT noted anywhere on the client's account and the posted balance and
available balance remain the same. At this time, there is an actual hold behind the scene of $120 NOT $60.

4/19/07 Available balance $40







4/20/07 Initial hold $30 - The account is taken into overdraft yet this is NOT recorded on the account at this time. Nothing looks out of the ordinary.


4/20/07 Available balance $10




4/24/07 Posted payment $60 (4/19/07) The date of the initial charge is changed to 4/19/07; but the account summary still reflects an available balance of $40 on 4/18/07. If the client questions the changed charge date, they are told that the merchant double billed. Yet the account has no record of the double billing and the account summary still displays a date and balance of when the initial charge was applied ($40 on 4/18/07).
In addition, the debit card hold section is deleted and there is no available record.


4/24/07 Posted payment $30 The bank pays this and charges an overdraft fee of $35. If a client calls to inquire why they were charged an overdraft fee when they
had enough money to cover the charges, they are told that on 4/19/07 when the charge of $30 came in, they had charges that were on hold that reduced their available balance to a level that took them into overdraft.



4/24/07 Available balance (-$25)


* This is how the scam works to generate bank fees. This is a simple example. If you have some problem understanding it, add 10, 20 or 30+ transactions and the holds to it and see how complicated it gets to an average novice. It's ingenious and extremely hard to detect in the middle of multiple transactions.


Since the bank does remove the temporary double hold and makes a single payment on the charge, the books even out. No client is the wiser and it would be extremely difficult to detect by any novice.


You can test this out for yourself. Get anyone with a Wachovia Bank Account and watch their accounts. It's best to use an account with lots of movement. I suggest you take computer snap shots of the "debit card hold" section because they delete them. When the bank posts the payments, compare the dates of the debit card holds you took snaps shots of to the date the bank notes they were initially charged. What you will notice is that Wachovia is changing the initial charge dates when they pay the charge. If you study it more carefully, you will see that they are temporarily double holding to take the account into overdraft.


This bank scam reminds me of the old scam cashiers play on people even today. You would give them $20 for something you purchased. They would ring it up for $10 and put the $20 in the cash register. Then they would give you change on the $10. Later, during their shift or when they close the cash register out, they would pocket the extra $10. Since they only rung up a $10 sale on the cash register, the cash register ribbon that records the sale even out with the cash in the register (They keep a tally of the amount they took from people in their head or write it down somewhere. It can amount to hundreds of dollars per day). If a customer notices that they just got ripped off, the cashier or the store owner goes through the cash register's ribbon and looks at the charges. Since only $10 was entered, they can't see it from the ribbon. However, if the cashier did not pocket it yet and the cash in the register is checked with the ribbon, it is uncovered. The cashier apologizes for the mistake and there is no proof of intent and there is no possession. They are simply looked at as bad cashiers and they are free to do it again and again, etc.

David
New York, New York
U.S.A.

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This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 04/25/2007 11:26 PM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/wachovia-bank/new-york-new-york-10017/wachovia-bank-ripoff-the-double-hold-banking-scam-new-york-new-york-245693. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author
25Consumer
0Employee/Owner

#25 Author of original report

Debit Cards

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 12, 2007

I have to agree with you on these debit cards. They seem to be a free pass for the banks to rip people off. Our legislature needs to step in and protect us from these banks now. My wife was at two different Wachoiva branches and she witnessed two different customers screaming at bank tellers about these overdraft fees and the way they are being generated by Wachoiva.

Where are our politicians? Why are they not proposing any bills to protect us from these shady banking practices?

I just recieved an email from an attorney friend of mine who is setting up a meeting with a major law firm that deals with class action lawsuits. The firm is interested in filing a class action against Wachovia. I don't care about making money from it. I just want to save my own money and stop them from engaging in such shady accounting practices. They are harming people out of greed.

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#24 Consumer Suggestion

Real simple solution to all of this.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 12, 2007

First anyone like Rhonda who has proof they spent less than they had in the bank, yet still got charged an overdraft fee, has been robbed. There's no other word for it.

It needs to be illegal to charge any sort of overdraft fee until the account is really overdrafted. That is, real money has left the bank and left a negative balance. Authorizations don't count as real money. They are a commitment from the bank to possibly pay up to that amount later when the merchant closes out the charge. But all your money is still in the bank until the merchant asks for it. So authorize or hold as much as you want, once, twice or three times, it is not real money and can't be used to say you overdrafted.

Until there is some reform, debit cards are a dangerous thing to the consumer. Even one who is very careful not to spend more than he or she has can be ripped off. Never use a debit/check card for anything other than ATMs. Find some other way to make payments.

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#23 Consumer Suggestion

Real simple solution to all of this.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 12, 2007

First anyone like Rhonda who has proof they spent less than they had in the bank, yet still got charged an overdraft fee, has been robbed. There's no other word for it.

It needs to be illegal to charge any sort of overdraft fee until the account is really overdrafted. That is, real money has left the bank and left a negative balance. Authorizations don't count as real money. They are a commitment from the bank to possibly pay up to that amount later when the merchant closes out the charge. But all your money is still in the bank until the merchant asks for it. So authorize or hold as much as you want, once, twice or three times, it is not real money and can't be used to say you overdrafted.

Until there is some reform, debit cards are a dangerous thing to the consumer. Even one who is very careful not to spend more than he or she has can be ripped off. Never use a debit/check card for anything other than ATMs. Find some other way to make payments.

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#22 Consumer Suggestion

Real simple solution to all of this.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 12, 2007

First anyone like Rhonda who has proof they spent less than they had in the bank, yet still got charged an overdraft fee, has been robbed. There's no other word for it.

It needs to be illegal to charge any sort of overdraft fee until the account is really overdrafted. That is, real money has left the bank and left a negative balance. Authorizations don't count as real money. They are a commitment from the bank to possibly pay up to that amount later when the merchant closes out the charge. But all your money is still in the bank until the merchant asks for it. So authorize or hold as much as you want, once, twice or three times, it is not real money and can't be used to say you overdrafted.

Until there is some reform, debit cards are a dangerous thing to the consumer. Even one who is very careful not to spend more than he or she has can be ripped off. Never use a debit/check card for anything other than ATMs. Find some other way to make payments.

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#21 Consumer Suggestion

Real simple solution to all of this.

AUTHOR: Mike - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 12, 2007

First anyone like Rhonda who has proof they spent less than they had in the bank, yet still got charged an overdraft fee, has been robbed. There's no other word for it.

It needs to be illegal to charge any sort of overdraft fee until the account is really overdrafted. That is, real money has left the bank and left a negative balance. Authorizations don't count as real money. They are a commitment from the bank to possibly pay up to that amount later when the merchant closes out the charge. But all your money is still in the bank until the merchant asks for it. So authorize or hold as much as you want, once, twice or three times, it is not real money and can't be used to say you overdrafted.

Until there is some reform, debit cards are a dangerous thing to the consumer. Even one who is very careful not to spend more than he or she has can be ripped off. Never use a debit/check card for anything other than ATMs. Find some other way to make payments.

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#20 Consumer Comment

You want common sense??? Then listen, for Heaven's sake

AUTHOR: Thomas - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 12, 2007

Do NOT EVER use, or even have, a debit card!

I have never read or heard ANY financial advisor suggest that having and using a debit card was a good idea. They all thought that having and using debit cards were a really bad idea for the account holder. For the banks? Debit cards were a really GREAT idea- as you may be learning.

Use a credit card instead and all of your problems will go away- if you use the CC with proper care.

I do not have ANY debit cards and I could surely afford to do have them. But debit cards are simply a bad idea for the account holder.

And Cory was right: charging pocket change on a debit card is simply a dumb practice. You should use cash instead.

But if you are determined to tilt at windmills, enjoy yourself. You want to sue? Fine! Will you ever be able to collect a significant amount of compensation? If Hell freezes over, yes. I will garantee you that the lawyers will collect.

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#19 Consumer Comment

Other banks?

AUTHOR: D - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Saturday, May 12, 2007

Anyone know if Bank of America does this? I can't remember the specifics of an issue about a year ago with my boyfriend's account, but something just s****.> After reading all this, I'm going to tell my mom she made the right decision a few years back to switch to a small, local bank with only 2 branches next town over when Wachovia took over her bank. she'd been at the same branch since the early 70s that went through quite a few mergers before becoming Wachovia,when they took over, they tried to convince mom to stay since she'd been there so long. Good thing she didn't. She wanted a place that was more personal.

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#18 Author of original report

In Response to Cory

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, May 11, 2007

Cory,

We are trying to do something positive here. If you're going to post a response just make sure it makes sense and has some commons sense.

I would love to just pay cash for everything; but you now need to tell me how do I pay for online movies I rent out over my laptop or to pay my Internet phone bill. Should I eliminate these Internet services from my life because my bank is ripping me off? or Should I mail payments to them and wait days for a result? Life is already too short and your suggestion of paying everything in cash in today's world is not only unrealistic and unpractical; but you reduce the quality of your life as you'll have to do more work in getting these payments out and waiting for results.

Nevertheless, if you want me to pay for them in cash, I would need to buy an airline ticket and fly out to California to hand them the cash. Unless you want me to mail them cash.

Please use common sense and some intelligence when posting comments here. It would be greatly appreciated.

Finally, the amount of the payments are irrelevant. It is against the law to commit fraud and theft no matter what the amount stolen is.

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#17 UPDATE EX-employee responds

they only want the money

AUTHOR: Rhonda - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, May 11, 2007

I used to work for Wachovia up unitl april of this year. I also had a bank account with them. Get this.

My husband bought something for 16.01, Wachovia claimed he did not have the money so they charged him 35.00 which then left him with a negitave balance( your going to love this) -27.17 that was after they paid the 16.01 and charged us 35.00 so why am I negitive less then the fee. They told me it was there was a 75.00 hold from waffle house. Which we had no idea it was for that much. We only charge 6.22. So they charge fee before they finilize. Now since the fee put us in the neg. 27.17 when the 6.22 finilized they charged us another 35.00. so total fee 70.00 and we were only neg 68.39. why does this not make since. Needless to say we not longer have an account with them and I dont work for them. I we were never charged the first fee, (when the money was there) we would have had 1.61 in the possitive.

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#16 Consumer Comment

Holds/Smolds

AUTHOR: Cory - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, May 10, 2007

They're gonna get you no matter what you do. I noticed the 57 cent hold and the $2.99 charge. $2.99 on a credit or debit card? Lord, if you people just payed cash, none if this would matter and just think how much more money you'd have if you weren't paying all those NSF fees. Like the guy who posted that he had $9 AND CHANGE in his account and charged TWO items and then his car payment of $70 came through.

He knew the $70 autodraft would put his account into the red, yet he's complaining that the two charges should have gone through first, BEFORE his NSF autodraft. Since they "put" the autodraft through first, he ended up with THREE NSF fees, instead of one. We're talking peanuts here.

IF he had the $9 AND CHANGE in his pocket, as cash, he wouldn't be paying THREE NSF's, just the one. He'd have $70 more, enough to cover his car payment. What did he do? Go to starbucks twice?

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#15 Consumer Comment

I know what you are referring too.

AUTHOR: Johanna - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, May 10, 2007

My husband and I have wachovia for our bank and know exactly what you are referrring to because we have had the same things happen to us. They shouldn't allow double holds anyhow.

Call them and complain telling them to credit you your overdraft fees. They have done it for me before. I swear that my account balances are a little off from where they should be from time to time. They do leave me suspicious based on their " holding" practices.

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#14 Author of original report

Back Dating Debit Card Holds

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, May 10, 2007

More is being uncovered..


Keep an eye on your "Debit Card Hold" section and take a snap shot of it because Wachovia deletes them.

We caught them back dating Debit Card Holds and trying to blame it on the merchants. They even sent us a letter with our holds on it that was missing the back dated holds.

It works like this. You have a $100 balance today and you charge $30. A service charge comes in for $10. Tomorrow you charge $70 and deposit $10 to cover the short. When Wachovia posts the payments on the charges, they back date the $70 hold to the previous day putting you over so when the $10 service charge came in, your over and they charge you an overdraft fee. Your account is now in the negative.

When you call to find out what happened, they blame the merchant. Since they delete the hold section, you can't verify when the hold was place. But you can call your merchant to verify this hold. How many people will know how to do this, or what to even look for.

It's simple; but really clever because the bank balance always adds up and there is always a good explaination why you were charged an overdraft fee. You could go to bed with a positive balance and wake up with a negative balance. The fraud is occuring in the Debit Holds. Who keeps track of Debit Holds? People record what they spend and their available balance. Do you even know to watch the holds? That's how Wachovia is getting so many of its customers.

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#13 Author of original report

Back Dating Merchant Charges

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Yes. I understand that concept.

However, all my holds were Internet based and automatically generated by me. They all matched up to the payments when Wachovia made them. So, the problem isn't here.

What I did find out on two of them so far is that Wachova back dated the Merchants' hold to a date where I supposedly had a negative balance so they could charge me an overdraft fee on them.

When the Wachovia employee faxed me a copy of all my holds because Wachovia deletes all the hold record from the account, these back dated Merchant hold were missing from her report. When I asked here where are they, she said she didn't know and that I should ask the merchants whey they didn't submit them. These holds are done automatically from the merchants' website and initiated by me. I knew she was lying, or didn't know better. That is when I uncovered the back dated holds, which involved the missing holds she omitted from the report she faxed me.

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#12 Consumer Comment

For Dave

AUTHOR: Ken - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

What you were told is absolutely true, except that there is a bit more to the story. Whne the bank recieves the pre-auth, they place a hold for that amount. On any transaction that comes in to be cleared, they attempt to match it to the holds, and when they match they automatically drop. After some period of time (it varies between banks) unmatched holds are dropped anyway.

Here's the rub, the match has to be made on the exact item, i.e. the correct amount, from the correct merchant number, on the correct date. How does this fail? When the merchant doesn't submit charges every day, it fails the date test. If you use your card in a restaurant, then add on a tip, it can fail the amount test. Gas stations often only hold a dollar, so that will always fail the amount test, as well as making people who do not keep track, believe that they have more in their account than they actually do.

Another common cause is chain stores and restaurants which do the pre-auth with their local ID number on it, but send all the charges into a central office for remittance, and they come in on a different merchant ID number.

I have never (personally) seen a case where they bank wouldn't rebate a fee for an overdraft which was caused by an unmatched hold which should have dropped.

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#11 Author of original report

Wachovia Back Dating Debit Card Charges.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Quess what again. I've found another back dated debit card charge. Believe it or not, it was for a .57 cent charge. This charge had an initial hold date of 4/23/07 and Wachovia back dated it to 4/20/07 when the account was showing a negative balance and charged me another $35 overdraft fee.

The Wachovia manager who faxed me a copy of the holds, which had three holds missing from it, proves that they were trying to conceal this fraud from me.

When I asked the manager if she could send me the information for the missing holds, she told me that there were not listed on my account and that I should call the merchants and ask them why didn't they submit the charges. I have to laugh at how obvious this is. It's a lie. All three charges were performed manually by me over the Internet on the merchants accounts and their websites submit these charges automatically. I've already contacted the merchants and confirmed this.

One thing I did notice when I was speaking to the manager was that she was trying to confuse me with the numbers. She would throw this number then that and she would throw out a wrong calculation. It was so obvious what she was doing. I haven't worked in the legal industry for over 12 years to have an amature like her play one over on me.

I've submitted the evidence to the attorneys I'm working with. One of them is a class action attorney. We are going to file a class action against Wachovia bank for these fraudulent activities. I'm sure they are doing this to a lot of people.

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#10 Author of original report

Wachovia Back Dating Debit Card Charges.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Quess what again. I've found another back dated debit card charge. Believe it or not, it was for a .57 cent charge. This charge had an initial hold date of 4/23/07 and Wachovia back dated it to 4/20/07 when the account was showing a negative balance and charged me another $35 overdraft fee.

The Wachovia manager who faxed me a copy of the holds, which had three holds missing from it, proves that they were trying to conceal this fraud from me.

When I asked the manager if she could send me the information for the missing holds, she told me that there were not listed on my account and that I should call the merchants and ask them why didn't they submit the charges. I have to laugh at how obvious this is. It's a lie. All three charges were performed manually by me over the Internet on the merchants accounts and their websites submit these charges automatically. I've already contacted the merchants and confirmed this.

One thing I did notice when I was speaking to the manager was that she was trying to confuse me with the numbers. She would throw this number then that and she would throw out a wrong calculation. It was so obvious what she was doing. I haven't worked in the legal industry for over 12 years to have an amature like her play one over on me.

I've submitted the evidence to the attorneys I'm working with. One of them is a class action attorney. We are going to file a class action against Wachovia bank for these fraudulent activities. I'm sure they are doing this to a lot of people.

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#9 Author of original report

Wachovia Back Dating Debit Card Charges.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Quess what again. I've found another back dated debit card charge. Believe it or not, it was for a .57 cent charge. This charge had an initial hold date of 4/23/07 and Wachovia back dated it to 4/20/07 when the account was showing a negative balance and charged me another $35 overdraft fee.

The Wachovia manager who faxed me a copy of the holds, which had three holds missing from it, proves that they were trying to conceal this fraud from me.

When I asked the manager if she could send me the information for the missing holds, she told me that there were not listed on my account and that I should call the merchants and ask them why didn't they submit the charges. I have to laugh at how obvious this is. It's a lie. All three charges were performed manually by me over the Internet on the merchants accounts and their websites submit these charges automatically. I've already contacted the merchants and confirmed this.

One thing I did notice when I was speaking to the manager was that she was trying to confuse me with the numbers. She would throw this number then that and she would throw out a wrong calculation. It was so obvious what she was doing. I haven't worked in the legal industry for over 12 years to have an amature like her play one over on me.

I've submitted the evidence to the attorneys I'm working with. One of them is a class action attorney. We are going to file a class action against Wachovia bank for these fraudulent activities. I'm sure they are doing this to a lot of people.

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#8 Author of original report

Wachovia Back Dating Debit Card Charges.

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Quess what again. I've found another back dated debit card charge. Believe it or not, it was for a .57 cent charge. This charge had an initial hold date of 4/23/07 and Wachovia back dated it to 4/20/07 when the account was showing a negative balance and charged me another $35 overdraft fee.

The Wachovia manager who faxed me a copy of the holds, which had three holds missing from it, proves that they were trying to conceal this fraud from me.

When I asked the manager if she could send me the information for the missing holds, she told me that there were not listed on my account and that I should call the merchants and ask them why didn't they submit the charges. I have to laugh at how obvious this is. It's a lie. All three charges were performed manually by me over the Internet on the merchants accounts and their websites submit these charges automatically. I've already contacted the merchants and confirmed this.

One thing I did notice when I was speaking to the manager was that she was trying to confuse me with the numbers. She would throw this number then that and she would throw out a wrong calculation. It was so obvious what she was doing. I haven't worked in the legal industry for over 12 years to have an amature like her play one over on me.

I've submitted the evidence to the attorneys I'm working with. One of them is a class action attorney. We are going to file a class action against Wachovia bank for these fraudulent activities. I'm sure they are doing this to a lot of people.

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#7 Author of original report

The gate is closing in on them

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Guess what guys? I just found the missing charges that the Wachovia bank employee couldn't find or refused to send to me. And you won't believe this.

I'm still investigating it through my own records; but Wachovia back dated the Cinemanow charge of $2.99 to 4/20/07, which gave it a negative available balance and then they charged me $35 overdraft fee. Through my own records and my merchant's records, I have uncovered that this $2.99 charge was actually placed on hold on 4/21/07. Wachovia back dated it to 4/20/07 to get me on the overdraft fee.

I'm still looking at my records for the other charge that she failed to send me.

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#6 Author of original report

Class Action Attorney

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Just to let you know. I have two law firms working with me on this matter. One of them specializes in class action lawsuits and they are interested in this case. We are collecting all the evidence.

If anyone is interested in joining this class action lawsuit, get in touch with me at (((ROR REDACTED LINK/E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR SECURITY PURPOSES))) It's time to fight back.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

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#5 Author of original report

Spoke to a Wachovia Employee

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

You'll get a kick out of this one. In trying to explain why Wachovia charged me $300+ in overdraft fees, the employee made the following statement. Now hold on for the punch line:

1) First, there are three (3) transactions (a) the initial merchant hold (approval), (b) the merchant's invoice, and (c) the banks payment of the charge.

2) She stated that if a merchant creates an initial hold of $25; but then sends in an invoice for only $20, the bank program does not recognize it as the same transaction so it takes the $20 out of your available balance while keeping the $25 on hold. Therefore, when you think your available balance is reduced by only $20, your bank account is actually reduced by $45. So when you charge more, those charges could make you go into overdraft. The bank then charges you an overdraft fee, which can make you go over again and more bank charges and they blame you for not keeping good records while reporting a billion dollar+ profit windfall.

3) She admitted that Wachovia deletes the entire record of the holds and she stated that even though she has access to all the holds, the computer would not allow her to print it from any screen. She actually had to type it out and she faxed it to me. However, there were missing holds on her faxed letter. When I called her to obtain the missing holds, she told me that they were not recorded on my Wachovia account. I said how can that be? Vonage, Cinemanow, papajohns were all missing the initial hold information. These charges are automatically generated from the merchant's website so I know they create automatic holds. Because they have done it on other transactions. Where did they go?

Now here's the killer. I held the good part to the end. I told her that no merchant has submitted invoices that did not match the holds on my account. All the merchants' charges were Internet based and those websites created an exact hold for the item I purchased, which was verified by the snap shots I took of my account. When the payments were posted, they did match up to the holds. Therefore, there was no possibility to blame the merchants for my overdraft. She couldn't explain it and then faxed me a record of my holds with three of the holds missing. The money I had in the account was enough to pay my charges. Therefore, I'm trying to get an explanation from them how my account when into overdraft when there was enough money in the account. The overdraft fees caused more overdraft fees. It was a landslide.

There is absolutely miscommunication between the management and customer service at Wachovia. Customer service explains the charges and posts one way and management explains them another way. They are not trained properly. I've gotten explanations that the merchant double billed to the merchant submitting invoices that don't match the holds, which created duplicate charges. But not one explanation has been substantiated by the banks records.

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#4 Author of original report

Double Hold Bank Scam

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Friday, April 27, 2007

Quote: "Example: balance $100. Charge $20. Available balance is $80. Then, when the merchant submits their batch: new balance $80 (charge subtracted from the $100), available balance $60. As you can see, the charge was subtracted from the balance to create the new balance, but the hold remained to create the available balance. After a $20 charge, the available balance should be $80, but it is only $60 because the charge soft posted, but the hold remained."

Your example is a good one. Your credit union paid the $20 fee; but also kept a duplicate $20 on hold at the same time leaving you with a $60 balance.

This means when you're out shopping, as many people are over the weekend, you think that you have an $80 available balance when it's only $60. If you make a purchase of $70 (thinking your under the limit), your credit union would charge you an overdraft fee of say $25. When the hold is taken off your account, you will have a negative balance of -$15 ($80 - $25 = $55 - $70 = -$15).

See how the double hold bank scam works. Many of the banks are doing it. Now add multiple transactions to it and see how confusing it would get to an average person. This is what the banks are counting on. To avoid a lawsuit, these banks will even refund hundreds of dollars to a client to keep them silent, which is done under the guise that they are your friendly bank trying to help you out. Be realistic. What corporation wants to give away hundreds of dollars if their billing is justified. They know what they are doing is wrong.

In the example above, when your shopping and spend the $70, you think you have a $10 safe zone so you buy a cup of coffe at starbucks and use your debit card for $5. That $5 just turned into a $25 bank overdraft fee. Are you getting the big picture now of how the double hold bank scam works? And how banks are defrauding their clients daily. Read the horror stories of people getting hit for bank fees on a $2 purchase when they thought they saw a positive balance in their bank account before they made the purchase.

The scam is in the "double hold" by the banks and they know this and are using it to steal your money right from under you. Then their customer service scolds you and tells you that you don't keep good accounting records. They tell you it's your fault you're over and that you should get overdraft protection or some other ridiculous statement.

Wachovia Double Hold Scam/fraud:

In Wachovia's situation, they aren't even reducing the available balance as in the example above. Wachovia only displays an available balance after the initial hold. To make the available balance even out when the merchant's slip is paid, Wachovia changes the initial hold date from say 4/18/07 to the double hold date of 4/19/07. You can verify this for yourself. Look at the merchant's posted payment. On the right hand side, there is a date when the merchant charge was posted to the account. Usually, that date is not the initial hold date, it's the double hold date. Wachovia is changing these dates to the double hold date to justify and explain the overdraft fees. And because they don't display the reduced available balance on 4/19/07 by the double hold amount, you can't verify your correct balance and off you go spending what you think you have. That means all or many of the charges you make on 4/19/07 will generate an overdraft fee. That's how Wachovia is stealing from you.

Wachovia manipulates your account by creating multiple double holds on separate days. For example, in my case, Wachoiva took my initial holds that were posted on 4/18/07 and used them to post a double hold on 4/19/07, 4/20/07, 4/22/07. But they didn't reduce the balance. So when charges came in that day, an overdraft fee was created. Then when the merchants slips were paid on 4/24/07, Wachovia displayed the double hold dates on the right hand side of the posted payments and the actual initial holds of 4/18/07 were deleted from my account. So when I called customer service, they tried to tell me that the double hold dates were the initial hold dates in trying to explain what took me over my balance and to try and justify the overdraft fees.

These guys are the real deal. They are corporate criminals that you read about in school text books. White collar criminals who think they are smarter than you could ever be.

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#3 Author of original report

"Double Holding Bank Scam"

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, April 26, 2007

Yes. I know that merchants submit their slips for payment after the hold. In my example above, it shows a 4/24/07 posted payment date. That's when the slip is paid. But Wachovia changed the date arbitrarily when the initial merchant charge was posted from 4/18/07 to 4/19/07 to create a double hold on the account on 4/19/07. The new 4/19/07 date is posted on the right hand side of the merchant's posted payment. So when other charges came in on 4/19/07, there wasn't enough money in the account to cover it because of the double hold and the account went to overdraft.

To explain why Wachovia charged me the overdraft fee, they fraudulently changed the initial merchant charge date from 4/18/07 to 4/19/07 because on 4/19/07 when the double hold was created, that's when my other charges were rejected and it gives the bank the reason for the overdraft fee. So they had to change the merchants initial charge date of 4/18/07 to 4/19/07 to explain it.

If Wachovia bank kepted the initial Merchant charge as 4/18/07, they could not explain the overdraft fee because there wasn't a double hold on the account on 4/18/07 and there was money to pay my charges.

Wachovia's fraud involves the double holding date. They take your merchant charges and arbitrarily apply them to other dates to cause a double hold to make your account go over. This was witnessed by multiple transactions I made on 4/18/07.

Wachovia changed all the merchants initial charge date from 4/18/07 to 4/19/07, 4/20/07 and 4/22/07. They where just picking days to post those initial merchant charges so they could create a double hold on multiple days and cause additional overcharge fees on those days. Due to this tactic they employed, I was hit by $300+ fees when I initially had the money to cover my charges. The double holds made me go over and the bank fees took away my available balance to cover the fees in the end, which requires me to add more money to the acount.

This is outright fraud. And we are uncovering it here. This will all be used in the lawsuit against them, which is inevitable. By us talking about it together, we will fully uncover the scam, which facts will be inserted in the lawsuit against Wachovia bank.


YOUR EXAMPLE:

I like your example too. It's helping to uncover this scam by the banks. It's obvious that these banks are stealing from us. It's irrelevant that their computers are at fault. Their computers are in the possession and control of the bank and thus the bank is liable.

In addition, the banks have actual knowledge that their system is creating a double hold on their clients accounts, which in some cases they are deliberately creating and taking advantage of to steal client fees. A lawsuit only needs to establish these facts against them to hold them liable for their wrongful accounting practices. It's also shameful how the banks' customer service poeple scold the clients and accuse them of not keeping good records. This fact will also be inserted in the complaint.

You know what is going to be bad for the Banks? The fact that their scam may have affected the judge who will sit on this case and the jury who will render a verdict against them. This is going to be bad for the banks. It will be hard for them to find a jury who has not been touched by their scams.

I can see it now. As the jury becomes educated to the bank scams that caused them or their family to lose money, they will hate these banks. It will be personal. The banks have dug themselves a deep hole for a fast buck that is only getting worse by the day for them. The end is near for them.

LEGAL CAUSE OF ACTION:

I believe there is a strong legal cause of action against these banks. They have notice of the situation and take advantage of it to charge us these overdraft fees. As for Wachovia, they outright change the date of the initial merchant charge to create a double hold to only then charge an overdraft fee.

DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE?

I will be putting all this in a lawsuit against Wachovia. If you have any more comments or examples about this "double holding scam" post them here. It will help in the lawsuit.

If you like, you can submit your examples to me directly if you want. I'm working on building a "class action lawsuit" against these banks. I beleive we have a very good claim here especially with Wachovia who is changing the date when the merchant charges came in to justify the overdraft fees.

My normal business is suing insurance companies on a daily basis for refusing to pay patients medical bills, which I have been very successful at. Adding these banks to the list will be nothing. Lets do this everyone. Lets fight back and take this matter into court. I'm already in talks with a reporter at the Washington Post and with one at MSNBC. The days are numbered for these banks.

CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

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#2 Consumer Suggestion

My Credit Union does same thing.

AUTHOR: Nikki - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, April 26, 2007

My credit union double holds items too and here is their explanation.

First, let me correct you in one aspect. Most banks post credit transactions as of the date they are actually submitted to the bank by the merchant (not just swiped in the machine), and not the date of the actual swipe. If you charge something on Wed., and the merchant submits their batch on Sat., the bank will post the charge date as of Mon. If the merchant runs their batch on Thurs., the bank will post the items with Thurs. date, regardless of when you make the charge.

My CU holds debit card charges for 48 hours. If the merchant does not submit their batch, the hold comes off. If the merchant submits their batch late at night, or on the weekend, within that 48 hrs, the charge is soft posted to the account (subtracted from the balance), but the hold is still on too. Then, the next banking day, the hold is taken off and the charge is hard posted to the account.

Example: balance $100. Charge $20. Available balance is $80. Then, when the merchant submits their batch: new balance $80 (charge subtracted from the $100), available balance $60. As you can see, the charge was subtracted from the balance to create the new balance, but the hold remained to create the available balance. After a $20 charge, the available balance should be $80, but it is only $60 because the charge soft posted, but the hold remained.

My CU said that when charges come in at night or over the weekend, the computer does not know that the charge is for the same charge that is being held, so it subtracts, but still holds too. Then when the charge is hard posted on the next business day, it is then realized the charge is the same one that's on hold and the hold usually comes off.

It's not right and I have opened an account at another CU.

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#1 Author of original report

My own experience with Wachovia's Scam

AUTHOR: David - (U.S.A.)

POSTED: Thursday, April 26, 2007

Here is what I have been experiencing with Wachovia's double holding scam.

This is one out of many such transgressions.

Wachovia did the following:


4/18/07 Wachovia posted the following initial card charges:
- Fedex $44.28
- PapaJohns $14.89
- Movielink $ 3.99

Then Wachovia posted a double hold of these same three charges on 4/23/07 claiming that I made the initial charges on 4/20/07 when it was actually made on 4/18/07 as I have a snapshot of the debit card holds from their website to prove it. Then they charged me an overdraft fee for two of them after they caused me to be overdrawn on that day due to the double hold.

Wachovia deliberately changed the initial charge date from 4/18/07 to 4/20/07 for a double hold so they would raise the hold level on 4/20/07 to cause me to be overdrawn. Then they charged me the overdraft fees.

Little did they know that I took snap shots of everything and I'm planning to sue them. I'm already speaking with a reporter at the Washington Post and one at MSNBC about their fraudulent activities and we're collecting evidence against them. When this hits the fan, they are going down hard.

So, you may have experienced the same thing. You may have seen that you had enough money in the account to pay your charges and then wake up to find overdraft fees in your account. You may have been another victum of Wachovia's double holding tactics. You can verify this by taking computer snap shots of the debit card hold section each day and comparing it to the posted payments. You will uncover Wachovia changing the initial charge date to another date, which is the double hold date.

It's one thing to pay bills in a certain order; but it's a different story when they fraudulently change the initial charge dates on the charges to raise the hold amount on another date to make you go over so they can charge you fees. This is fraud on a major scale. And it's starting to come out.

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