Snap Illusions Jack Moyer strong suspicion of professional fraud, Whiteland, Indiana

Ohh.., another one, this time from Puerto Rico.

Why don't you make your life easy and focus on the simple facts?

Jack Moyer hase taken money from several magicians in Europe and did not deliver the ordered products. The names and details of the victims have been released in this thread.

I simply don't care how many illusions Jack Moyer may have delivered as long as he keeps my money without shipping the product.

You may go on discussing my motivation and my stigma, but that does noit change the fact that Snap Illusion  has cheated several magicians and that I will go on publishing this in the internet.

Whether you like it or not is none of my business.

Richard Erb

SNAP Illusions is taking money from people and then not delivering the products bought.  SNAP Illusions is stealing money from people.

Richard Erb is NOT the bad guy here and anyone who disputes that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.  They are only trying to cloud the water and quiet possibly even employees of SNAP themselves trying to keep up their web of deceit.

Do Not Send Money to SNAP Illusions.  They are Ripping People Off!  

Dear Abby, George and Justin....

Don't fret over all of this bad publicity that Richard Erb is creating for magicians.  Several months ago, Mr. Erb went on a forum and asked the question:

" Should a buyer who feels (or really is) cheated reach out to the seller and into his social network by publishing his experience to as many others as possible (also to friends of the seller) in order to force the seller to either deliver or return the money? 
Or should the buyer just wait, even if it takes a year or more to get what he paid for under the impression and promise that the product would be his in no time? 
Or should he limit his actions to file a lawsuit (and may end up paying more to lawyers than the whole product is worth)? 
I am interested in your views. 
Regards 
Richard Erb "

The response from someone in the magic community was:

"I think it is always best to try to work with the other party as much as is possible. If all else fails, have a lawyer contact them...sometimes that's all it takes.  In my opinion, when we publicly badmouth someone (whether true or not) WE are the ones usually ending up looking bad."


In my opinion, this is what is happening to Mr. Erb, he has created this terrible stigma within the magic community, and although he has a few followers who have joined forces with him.  He is the one who is now looking bad.  I go to conventions and am active in the magic community , I can tell you that the general synopsis is that if all of this was truly happening with this company

#1  They wouldn't still be in business, and obviously they are
#2  They would have been sued by someone by now

This will eventually go away and people will grow tired of this.

I did not know the post in the Geniiforum, because I am not constantly browsing forums.

It is very surprising to me that a car dealer is reading in magic forums, but I am happy that he is also interested in magic and not on cars. Bad luck for him to be in the former Snap Illusion workshop, but I do not think that a magician from Europe would spent lots of money and fly to USA to remind Jack that he is behind schedule. That would probably be more expensive that the money he stole from us.

I am responsible for what I say and post and I am neither responsible for the imagination nor for postings of others.
If you would like to tell us where I have suggested to use violence against Snap Illusion or Jack Moyer, you should not hold back.

If others have suggested violence, it is not my responsiblility either.

Maybe you should blame Jack Moyer for cheating magicians and not blame magiciand for making such fraud public.
Jack himself tried already in the past to insinuate that I did threaten him and his family, which of course I never did. Unless you call it violence when I told him that I will make his activities public.

So, I am used to such baseless and wrong allegations and why should I care about it?
As I said in my previous post:

I can not force Jack to stop cheating people and he can not stop me from telling the truth to others, because I do not expect anything from Snap Illusions anymore,

If you would like to improve your credibility, you should not hide behind a pseudo. That would satisfactorily show that you are not a stooge of Jack Moyer.

Richard Erb

The person renting the old building clearly put his fear on the Genii Forum, he said:

"My primary concern here is that I don't want anyone reading that this person can be found at my business address and come looking for him. I fear either a physical altercation or vandalism to my property based on the tone and emphasis of some of the comments I have seen posted in various places. 

Secondarily, I don't want anyone being responsible for providing incorrect info that the person(s) out for revenge might use to try and get back at this guy. I am doing my best to try and keep track of what is being posted and where it is happening and making those who post it aware that it incorrect and asking them to remove it to lessen that liability.

Based on what I have seen and heard, this has become a huge concern to me. Fortunately enough the fire department is right outside the front door and the police station is just a little further down the road. I have installed security cameras and been trying to get to know those who can easily keep an eye out. At lunch I went to the police station to ask if they could keep an eye on the place for me because of all of this."

I think that this post clearly demonstrates that he feels that the magic community are cold , heartless and violent people.  From the things you have said, it is clear you had a hand in helping to disgrace the magic community.   Maybe you don't really care about the magic community, because you probably aren't a professional magician , I see you as probably a retired hobbyist who collects magic for fun, but some of us are actual working, touring magicians who make their living from performing, and don't appreciate you giving us a bad reputation and ruining the art of magic that some of us truly love.


Abby

As an attorney you should better stick to reality and avoid wrong allegations about non existing encouraging of violence.
Some people seem to have a funny sense of a legal system.

A builder takes payments, does not deliver, gets reminders and deadlines which he all ignores and after a year without delivery, a customer should forfeit all his money if he requests a return because the other part did not fulfil the contract? Some would call it legal cheating and describe those who defend such a practice as accomplices.

Although I would neither suggest nor do by myself, I can at least understand people who get the feeling that attorneys are sometimes useless and want to handle such cases by themselves.


If you read my posts, you will recognize that I gave up the hope to get anything from Snap Illusions and the criminal members of that company. So, why should I care about their return policy any longer?

In a certain sense, I handle the situation by myself with publishing the activities of Snap Illusion wherever I want to.

I can not force Jack Moyer to deliver or return the money, but he can not force me to remain silent.
If that is annoying for Jack Moyer and his friends, so much the better.

Richard Erb

Dear Abby, 

Are you saying that Richard Erb is encouraging others into bullying and violent behavior toward Jack Moyer his family who work at Snap Illusions, and also against the person who rented the former building?  I have a colleague who works out of Denmark in International law and handles these type of crimes, I will have him look into it, if you want me to.  It is a shame if that is what is happening within the circle of magicians.

Mr. Erb, 

I belong to the Snap Illusion's Blog, I get notices in my email when new blogs are posted.   Today I got a blog with a video of their new shop, so it seems a little immature on your part to suggest that they don't have a computer and are broke, when in the video, it is very clear that they have a fully working shop and an office ( with a computer...LOL) .

Also being an attorney I like to look into situations and give my opinion.   I have ordered items from all the major manufactures over the years, both small items and large illusions.  I had an illusion made by another builder a couple years back, I had a issue but did not look to see if they had any type of return policy.  I got stuck with the illusion, so now I always look at the policies for returns or refunds.  From looking at the Snap Illusions policies on their website, they are like most custom builders and magic dealers they have no refund no return policy.  In there policies ,in the event of cancellations, charge backs or an unauthorized returns , the buyer forfeits any deposit or monies paid on order.  So if you or any of the other foreign customers that claim they haven't gotten the illusion, have sent any emails saying they want your money back, that would be cancelling the order, and you would forfeit the money paid. 

Good for you that you received your products.

Unfortunatelly that does not change the fact. that others are waiting since 2 1/2 years for their products. I am surprised that you say that fighting against a criminal is cold, heartless, violent.

Reading the post of the new tenant of Jack Moyer's former workshop mentioned I could not find any mentiong that he is in fear or has concerns about his safety. Are you sure we hae read the same posting? Better check it again. He just says that he is not linked to Snap Illusion. Where did you get your interpretation of his words?

Contrary to you and others, we, who have been cheated by Jack Moyer, are not hiding behind pseudo name, so it might be easier to prove that we all exist in real life as well.

Let us stick to the facts and I am happy to list again the names of those who know that Jack Moyer is a cheat.

1. Richard Erb, 33100 Paderborn, Germany
    Order: one Origami Illusions
    Paid to Snap illusions: 1.870 US$ in November 2010
    Answer from Jack Moyer on 13.December 2011 after several
    requests for shipping date
    "Our painters and staff got a little behind due to
    having some employees out sick.  
    It is being finished now and it won't be much 
    longer."
   Statement from Richard:
   Until today no shipping date, not delivery,
   no return of payment

2. Claes Cimmerholm, 271 43 Ystad, Sweden
    Order: one "Body twisted illusion" and one
   "card fountain"
    Paid to Snap illusions:  1.320 US$ on 03.December 2009
    and
    350 US$ on 10. December 2009
    Statement from Claes on 11. April 2011:
    "I have sent a lots of mail to "the Snaps",
    but never got my things.
    They said that my things was in production and
    this was one year ago."

3. Niels Harder, 1251RZ Laren (N-H) The Netherlands
    Order: One Crystal Casket (new), one Round Subtrunk (new)
    one Skewered Illusion (used)
    Paid to Snap Illusions: 2.132,24 Euro on 19. August 2009
    Statement from Niels on 3. April 2011:
    "I never received one illusion from them."

4. Doruk lgen, Istanbul, Turkey
    Order: Origami Illusion (used)
    Paid to Snap Illusions: 2.000 Euro on 02. December 2009
    Statement from Doruk on 14. April 2011: 
    "I received nothing at all"

 5. Alessandro Nerilli, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain
    Order: Origami Illusion (used)
    Paid to Snap Illusions: 2.500 US$ October 2010
    Statement from Alessandroon 31. March 2011:
    "I have not received any news since 10 January (2011)"

 Here is a new one who came in during summer.

6. Pawel Kuzenin from Warszawa, Poland
    Order: Thin Model Sawing
     Paid to Snap Illusion: 1.180 US$ on 25. May 2011
     Statement from Pawel on 22. July 2011
    "since that moment (Pawel means the money tansfer) I have no answer"

There are more who are still waiting..

Jack will know whom I mean when I say that Ed paid a total of 1.482,50 US$ in three wires for a tip over trunk, a left over Origami spiked illusion and a used thin model sawing in September 2011.

He was told that the illusions are already crated and ready to ship.

Should I be surprised that he did not receive anything when I had last contacted with him on 8. November 2011?

And there is even a satisfied customer who purchased and received an illusion from Snap Illusion in 2006 or 2007 and therefore ordered a walk away style Super X Suspension in February 2011.

Until yesterday, he did not get his shipment.

So, Abigail, be happy that you got something. Others where not so lucky and honestly, why should I give up making Jack Moyer's criminal activities public, because someone else was not cheated?

If he wants to get rid of me, he knows what to do.

Return my money.

Richard Erb

thank you for the advise. You are right, I am not familiar with the US legal system and even not very familiar with the system of my home country Germany.
I understand that I and the others I am in contact with have been cheated from a legal point of view by a company. However, companies can not cheat without the help of at least one individual who writes the offers, accepts the payments and makes decisions to keep the money without delivering.
In this case, Jack Moyer is the one cheating foreign magicians with the help of his wife Vicky and his daughter Tawni, but according to you they are protected by the LLC construction of their business.
It seems that without knowing this and using the internet to make his scam system public, I selected the only possible way to fight against professional fraud misusing the legal system to get off the hook.
A lawsuit against a company whose members are broke would not help to either get the ordered product or a refund.
In the meantime I am able to prove that we are not talking about a series of unfortunate delays or problems or mistakes, but that Jack Moyer -or Snap Illusion- has intenionally cheated.
The evidence is obvious.
Jack Moyer sold several used Origami illusions to different magicians in Europe between 2009 and 2011. In each case he claimed unfortunate delays. Some times it was due to ill employees, sometimes they found problems during refurbishment and had to send the metal parts to a metal workshop and he always pronised that it will be shipped when it is finished.
Everyone will be able to will realize that you do not need a year or two to find a metal workshop for some small repais. An Origami is quite simple and can be build or repaired within weeks, not years.
So, if Jack Moyer tells the truth, Snap Illusion must have several used Origami illusions in different stage of refurbishment in their warehouse, because these illusions have been paid already and belong to European magicians.
In case these Origami Illusions are not available, it can only mean that Snap Illusion either never had them or did sell them a second time to someone else.
Company records should show the purchasing of the used illusions and/or the sales of such illusions. If not, the IRS might be very interested.
A company is a construction on paper as said above and an individual must have made the decision to either sell non existing products or to sell the same products more than once.
If such an indvidual is still protected by the legal system, then there must be something evry wrong with that system.
But that is no longer my concern. I have realized that I have been cheated and that I will never get a refund. So I will go on using the internet to tell as many people as possible what kind of scam Jack Moyer is running and I have by far not used all possibilities. There are still newsgoups and social networks which I did not yet touch. A new Facebook group or a website with the name www.snapillusionscam.com can be started when I feel it would be appropriate to spend the time for that. Until then I will drop in from time to time and make sure that Jack Moyer does not forget my request to return my money. Being a pain in the a*s of a professional cheater could be an alternative to a costly lawsuit.
As Jack is also in the email list of this thread, he will probably read our posts (provided, his PC has not yet been taken by the bailiff).
Merry Christmas, Jack. Don't forget the Origami I ordered in 2010. You still have not returned my money, so I have to follow up. Same for the others you have cheated in Spain, Netherlands, Turkey, Sweden, Germany, Guam and so on.

Richard Erb

Hello, 

My name is Abigail, I am from London.  I am a Snap Illusions customer.  I have ordered 4 illusions from them between 2009 and 2011.  I paid for the orders via bank to bank transfer.  The last illusion I ordered was the Impaler, and  I received in 12 weeks, which was right along time I was originally told I would get it.  I got it in August.

I am sorry if other people in Europe have ordered items, and have not received it, but I don't think that is always the case, so I just wanted to voice my opinion.  The only illusion that took much longer than expected was a custom made illusion that I designed.  It took almost 5 months to get...but once I got it , I thought it was worth the wait.  I personally have not had any major problems with Snap Illusions.  I had an instance where an illusion was damaged, and they also took care of that for me.

I know why some people who are satisfied customers of this company, do not come out and post there comments on the forums...they are afraid of being bullied by some of the people in the magic community because they are taking up for them. 

Case in point...I was shocked to hear of the circumstance regarding the person who rented the former shop of Snap Illusions.  This person was actually in fear of his safety because of people in the magic community.  That is why a lot of people won't come forward to say anything good about Snap Illusions.  People like Richard Erb, who pops up every where  I agree with you .majikofjustin, he is  giving magicians a bad name and a bad rap.   He is giving the public the impression that magicians are cold, heartless, violent people.  Makes me wonder about the mental stability of some of these people.  

Every time a customer or someone with a positive statement comes out, Richard Erb, tries to discredit there statements and say that are personal friends of Jack Moyer, and not customers.

I am not a personal friend, I have never personally met Jack Moyer or any of his family members who work at Snap Illusions.  I have only had communication with him via email and once on the phone...but I can tell you that I am in general happy with my experience and do intend to place an order with them in the future.

I ordered something from Chalet Magic a long time ago...it took 2 years to get it, and from the message boards at that time, everyone was on Chalet and the length of time it was taking to send items...but the talk was kept in a respectful tone, and people ( including myself) were not vindictive and hateful, but of course Richard Erb was not involved in that, had he of been, I'm sure it would have taken an ugly, spiteful turn.

I am sure that now,  Richard Erb will attempt to pick apart my statements.

Cheers, 

Abby

Thank you for suggesting I check Jack Moyer's bankruptcy records.  Since I am an attorney,  This is my forte.    In 2007 Jack Moyer filed a Chapter 13 , which is a repayment plan.  The bankruptcy consists many of large medical bills to a Cancer Treatment Center in Indianapolis, Indiana.  In 2008 the Bankruptcy was converted to a Chapter 7.  This was a personal bankruptcy , apparently from what the records suggest, for medical bills.  There weren't any business debts on the bankruptcy record.

Snap Illusions is an LLC- which is a limited liability company.  Obviously since you are not as familiar with the legal system as I am, you may not know that Jack Moyer is not the one you have to sue in this case, in fact , under the rules of the "LLC", he is protected against personal lawsuits.  Owners of an LLC are called members, Jack Moyer is a "member" of Snap Illusions. Owners are protected against personal liability for the debts and actions of the LLC.

So in reality, it is Snap Illusions, LLC , you should be suing.


George

The good thing of the internet is, that no one is forced to read everything which is written.

There are thousands of threads in the Magic Cafe, the Genii Forum and other websites and if you do not like that I am constantly reminding people that Jack Moyer is a professional and his company Snap Illusions is cheating mainly foreign magicians, you are not forced to read them.

The fact that you do it shows that you obviously are interested.

"Doing something" as you suggest is not limited to pay an attorney and the other participants of the legal system to sue a broken cheater. I am quite happy with "doing something" and your answer is a prove for me that my activity in different forums and websites is recognized by those who would love to see me shutting up.

Unfortunatelly, this option is not in the annual christmas bag.  Jack Moyer knws since long what has to be done to make me shut up:

return exactly 1.875 US$ which have been paid transferred on 10. November 2011 to his bank account for a used and refurbished Origami illusion which has not been delivered until today.

As long as this isn't done, you and others will have to live with my postings on the internet about Jack Moyer, Snap Illuions and his scheme to cheat foreign magicians.

I suggest that you just don't read them if they are annoying for you.  There will be enough others who will see them and avoid Jack and hos company.

Richard Erb

You may have received your illusions because you are within US.

Jack Moyer is cheating foreigners, because he knows, that we have little chance to sue him from outside US. The lost money per magician in Europe is between 1.000 and 5.000 US$ and the cost of a lawsuit is -according to some attorneys I contacted- around 10.000 US$.

So, why should someone waste another 10.000 US$ to get a verdict and no money back?  Especially if it is well known that Jack Moyer has already filed for chapter 7  in 2008 at the Indiana Fed Court in Indianapolis. Check out case no. 0801136 if you wish.

It is much cheaper to make sure that the names Snap Illusions and Jack Moyer always pop up as an example for professional fraud whan someone uses the internet to check the company.

Reactions like the one from the participant "majikofjustin"convince me that my activities are reaching their target and I would be more sad if no one would blame me.

As I said, I am able to prove that Jack Moyer is a criminal who cheats foreigners using the internet.
Feel free to ask him for copise of his shipping documents to the magicians I mentioned earlier in this thread and don't be surprised if he has none.

Richard Erb

I am sorry that you haven't received your order...but as for me, these last order I placed was in September for an illusion, and received it the end of last month.  I have ordered from them since 2008..I have ordered 8 illusions over the years for my son,  and have always got them in a reasonable time frame...so hopefully things will work out for you. 

George

I am an active member on the Magic Cafe and Genii forums.  I have seen posts made on the Genii forum since you use your name as your member id, and I am guess you are Dixie on the magic cafe...I have heard you crying and whining about Snap Illusions for months, and you keep saying oh i am going to sue them, I am getting an attorney, etc.   Yet, you do nothing and all I ever read is you complaining about them over and over again.

I had a bad experience with non delivery from another dealer ( not Snap Illusions), I took them to court and sued them....it's that simple...so either get the balls to man up to doing what you say or quit complaining because it's getting old that every time I go on a forum there you are...when in reality magicians are going online to talk about magic not hear you complain...oh sure you have a few who will jump on the bandwagon with you, but all in all the general consensus we are sick of hearing from you.  People complain that the threads get deleted about Snap Illusions, maybe it's because they are filled with crap, and the administrators of Magic Cafe don't want crap on their forum...did you ever think of that smart man????

I anxiously await your comments with great eagerness as to what you are going to say...oops I already know...you are going to repeat your self again like a broken record.  

If you will read my post carefully and use a little common sense in your postings, you will see the reason I am familiar with the Magic Cafe forum is because it's the one my son posted his video on that that got the harsh remarks....I know you have some twisted motive regarding Snap Illusions, but the post wasn't about Snap Illusions...it was more towards the some of the hateful people in the magic community and what they can do to others, but from comments you have posted, suffice it to say. you can now be added to the group I am speaking of for you have led me to believe you are another one of those vindictive people who go on the forums and post hateful comments about others.   I made a simple statement within the post saying that we have been happy with the products we ordered from them to date, and that we have met them personally and found them to be nice people....and I guess that was just too much for you to handle...heaven forbid someone would say something nice about these people...

God be with you.

George

Hello,  

I am sorry to hear that your son was mistreated by anybody on line regarding his interest in magic.  That is unfortunate.

However, I am one of the victims of SNAP Illusions and I can tell you that the reports against them are very true and meant to warn others of dealing with them.  They do take the money from customers outside of the USA and they do not deliver the items.  I also have become aware of Americans now being ripped off by them.  They also ignore any attempts at communication from the customer who's money they took.

If you received your order from SNAP you can consider yourself fortunate.  Apparently, up until a couple of years ago, they did fill the orders that they took.  However, I can state first hand that they do not do so now.  I personally was taken for about $1400.00 and I have seen evidence of others who also have been taken.

SNAP is committing a crime and people need to be warned.

it is referring to a website, which was never mentioned before in this rip off report.  How come that suddenly the name "Magic Cafe" pops up?

Could the writer be an insider who scans the posts in the Magic Cafe about the fraud in Indiana?  Maybe a a good friend of cheating Jack or is it the cheater himself?

Dear Mr. "topekageorge", send me your email address and I will be happy to send you copies of payment documents from several European magicians. You may then ask your buddy Jack Moyer to show you his shipping documents for those orders and then you may wake up, because he does not have such shipping documents.

I admit that some of the members in the Magic Cafe might be too harsch when they comment the performance of others, but what has that to do with the proven fact that Jack Moyer and his company Snap Illusions is cheating people to make a living?

Fact is that the magicians mentioned in this thread have paid thousands of dollars and never received their ordered products. The complete documentation about the internet fraud of Jack Moyer  has been given to the investigation division of the whiteland police department and we will see what they will do. Legal mills may be slow but once the gears start turning, it is difficult to stop them.

The money Jack Moyer stole from us does not matter anymore, because how can we get a cent from a broken person who is making his living be cheating people over the internet?

However, the same internet Jack Moyer is using to cheat people is used to again and again to post his name and his criminal activities whereever magicians can see it.

Fortunatelly, every claim I mentioned can be proven with copies of payment documentation for orders which have never been delivered.

There will always be someone to bring this up in internet forums and inform others not to order from Snap Illusions.

Richard Erb

This is my opinion.  I am an attorney out of Topeka Kansas, I had always loved the art of magic, so when my 12 year old son took an interest in magic, I was quite pleased.   He started off in smaller magic, and then wanted to perform larger illusions.  I found Snap Illusions website and was quite pleased with their prices.  Over the next couple years we ordered several illusions from them, and were quite happy. They drove the illusions to our house and showed us how to work them and gave him performance pointers....very nice people.  We continue to be a repeat customer for them. 

One day my son performed a show for a local venue and it was tapped and ended up on you tube.  My son was a member on the Magic Cafe...he was so excited about his performance he put a link on the Magic Cafe to his you tube video.   He was laughed at and made fun of by the inconsiderate,  vindictive fools that are in this so called "magic community".   They called him a spoiled rich kid with no talent...pretty harsh words to say to a younger child.  Jealousy runs rampant among this group of people.  They will cut each other down just to further their own career, this includes some of the builders out there who cut down other builders, to sell their illusions.  

Think about it, how many times can magician's discuss how an effect is done, etc...it gets old after a while , so they have to come up with trash talk to keep people coming back to those tired old forums. 

These people just want to create gossip because I sincerely think they have nothing else to do with their time.  They invent stories and enjoy the adventure of getting it posted online to see how far it will go.  The forums and so called "scam reports" are the equivalent of  "The National Enquirer" for magicians...nothing but lies and gossip.

This group of people tarnish the magic profession and should be ashamed of themselves. 

Hello,

My name is Darrin and my company is BC Auomotive. On September 1, 2011 I rented the vacant building at

82 S Baldwin St

Bargersville, IN 46106.

The company you are referring to is not there. My company, BC Automotive, is the current tenant. I have no connection at all with the company this complaint refers to other than I rented the building after they left. This can be verified with the Town of Bargersville or with the Bargersville police department.

My company is

BC Automotive

82 S Baldwin St

Bargersville, IN 46106

www.bcatransmissions.com

Check it out.

Thanks much!

Darrin

You may be a lucky person, because you got the products you paid for. However, the fact that you may have been lucky does not really back up your conclusion that therefore everybody did get his/her products.
Let us assume for the sake of discussion that the names I have mentioned in this thread are really  magicians in Europe who did pay and never got the products nor their money returned (and they are real !).

That leads to two interesting potential scenarios:
1) I press charges against Jack Moyer in Indiana for alleged fraud.
    Then I have of course to pay the legal fees and best case could get compensated if I win
    and he has money.
2) Jack Moyer presses charges against me (where, by the way? US? Germany?)
    Then he has to raise the money for the legal activities and could be compensated if he wins
    and I have money.

But how can he win?
In both cases I will be able to present my evidence and prove that he took money from several European magicians without delivering the products.
I am also sure that now I can even prove for some of the cases that it was done intentionally.
Therefore I have to assume that I would win in any of the above mentioned scenarios.

The difference is:
In scenario 1) I have to pay in advance and most probably would not get back anything from Snap Illusions. If they are not able to deliver products to 8 to 10 magicians in Europe with a paid value of 
probably more than 20.000 US$ (have to check the exact amount), how would he compensate me?

In scenarion 2) Jack Moyer gets the invoice of your son and -if I am right- your son may have a problem with that payment.

Looking at your idea I think it is not bad. At least for me, because I will win without paying for an own lawsuit.
So, go ahead and convince your son to press charges and I will be happy to provide all evidence that instead of cyber bullying I just informed others about the truth.

Best regards
Richard Erb

P.S.:
Interesting that a "retired magician" shows up 30 minutes after the issue with Snap Illusions was again addressed and I described it in another forum.
I was never a great believer in coincidence and I would not be too surprised if there are certain connections.... But so what. Thanks for bringing this thread to life again.

P.P.S.:
Ask your son to speed up. I did already inform the FBI with a lot of facts because it seems that there are laws in the US which are targeting people who use computers and the internet for illegal activities.
I wouldn't want to see you son being sad about loosing such a "profitable" (?) case. :-)

Mr. Moyer, 

I am a 75 year old retired magician, I have never purchased anything from you, but I have friends who have. They had told me that they got their illusions delivered to them, with no problem. I had been a performing magician for over 50 years until my health deteriorated and I was no longer able to perform. I am here to tell you that I have seen it all in the magic community both good and bad. In my day there wasn't "internet" for people to go on and bash other people.

I have many friends in the magic community who have told me that this same type of activity has happened to them. I did some research on you and your company myself and have found the bad comments are generally coming from the same small group of people, especially this "Richard Erb" person who I believe also goes by the name "Dixie" on different forums.

I have read some of your comments to him about "cyberbullying" I recently heard "through the grapevine" that you are taking legal action against Mr. Erb for his comments and harassment via the internet and I say good for you.

My son in law is an attorney here in Texas and he has represented a few cyberbullying cases recently...he told me that he has won them all...this is a hot topic in the legal system now and one that the courts want to send a message about to those who participate in this type of harassment. 

I know you have had your small family business for a while, and it's just a shame to me that someone would be so vindictive to you and your family. It just shows what type of crazy people are out there. 

I am retired so I have a lot of time on my hands and while i was researching the topic of "cyberbulling" I came across this post on the subject, which I thought I would share with you: 

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_do_you_do_if_you_see_someone_doing_cyber_bullying&updated=1&waNoAnsSet=2

I wanted to say best of luck to you and if you need any "free" legal advise on this subject, my son in law will be more than willing to help.

Hi Richard,

I am one of the Jack Moyer's and his family victims.
How can I contact you to send more informations?

Best regards
Pawel K., Poland

Dear all, 

July has arrived, my current projects are done and and I have some time to start what I planned already since a few months, which is, starting legal activities against Snap Illusions.
Therefore I am looking for an excellent lawyer in Indiana (best would be in Indianapolis) who is willing and able to file a lawsuit against Snap Illusions, the owner and some involved family members.
Past experience with with lawsuits about ongoing internet fraud, professional scam, swindle, cheating etc. would be preferable. 

If you know a lawyer you would recommend your suggestion would save me some time to find someone via the internet.

I will of course check the suggestion before I move on with that lawyer. to avoid that "someone" might try to plant his "family friend" on me :-).

So, if you know a good lawyer to represent a group of ca. eight foreigners from different (mainly European) countries who claim to have lost some thousands of US$ each to Snap Illusions and want to put a stop on future similar activities, please send me contact details of the lawyer you would suggest to my dedicated email address get-snap(at)taipo.de or post the details here.

Thanks in advance and best regards 
Richard Erb

if you would like to join a lawsuit where I pay the lawyer's fee, feel free to contact me at my dedicated email address
(((ROR REDACTED)))

For the beginning I will need your name and adress,  what you did order and when you ordered and a copy of the payment order or any other document which proves that you did pay and when. Our little community of people who got jacked is growing and I have such documents from 7 people now.

I will have time to focus on pressing charges in July and will find a lawyer in Indiana to support me. I am sure that I can prove that there was and is no intention from Snap Illusion to ever deliver the products. You say "In your business, it is possible to run into situations where you are going to need more time to deliver than promise."
That might be true in certain cases, but it looks like Snap Illusions is in such a difficult situation for more than 2 years and still takes money from customers without delivering the products.
From my point of view that looks more like a system to rip off foreigners and make a living with professional fraud.

I am sure, Jack Moyer, his wife Vicky and his daughter Tawni will have a lot of explanations as they usually have. Employees ill (if there are anby employees at all), uncle died (but that was in 2009), illusion needs more time for refurbishing (2 years?) and in total, all others tell lies and Jack Moyer is the only honest person in this business.
I am sad to say that you are another one who will not get his illusion nor his money back.
So, your situation can not get worse if you join a lawsuit which will cost you nothing.
May take time, but why not trying?
Regards
Richard E


CLICK here to see why Rip-off Report, as a matter of policy, deleted either a phone number, link or e-mail address from this Report.

I have never met, communicated with or have any idea who Richard Erb is, but I have to say that my present experience with Snap Illusions is exactly as Richard describes Snap's business practices.  I asked Vicki at Snap if I placed an order for a particular illusion in late January/early February, would it be delivered by mid to late April, or in about 10 to 12 weeks.  I was told by Vicki, in writing, "No problem."  The price was 4 digits and I also do not live in the US.  I placed the order and waited.  I am still waiting.  I tried to contact Vicki or Jack to find out the status of my order.  After much effort, Vicki, on two occasions did respond and said she would look into it.  She never replied or provided an update.  All other attempts to reach Snap Illusions have been ignored.  And that, as has been pointed out is the real frustrating point about dealing with Snap Illusions.  They ignore you.  Check out the Better Business Bureau of Indiana and you will see that this is the same experience they have had with Snap Illusions when they have tried to intervene on a customer's behalf over the last few years.  Snap ignores the BBB's requests as well.  Jack, if you're reading this, you can reduce soo much of your client's frustration just by telling us what the heck is going on.  In your business, it is possible to run into situations where you are going to need more time to deliver than promise.  Alright, that might or might not cause the buyer some concern. However, when you choose to ignore the buyer after you have taken their money, you can be sure that there will be frustration, possible anger and a desire to lash out.  Please do the right thing, communicate with your customers.  

After 6 months Mr. Moyer is still unable to deliver or return the money. It is questionable what kind of company he is running if he is not able to refurbish a used Origami illusion within 6 months. After all, this illusion is not rocket science and others are able to built it from the scratch in 4 weeks.As there is no further communication from Snap Illusions, I have to believe
that there is no intention to deliver or return the money. The question of another participant in this topic "What's next" is easy to answer.As I planned, charges will be pressed around late June / early July timeframe and I have reason to believe that I can prove that there was no intention from the beginning to deliver the ordered product.

As a response to Mr. Moyer who mentioned that cyberbullying is taken seriously nowadays, I can only answer that internet fraud is probably taken more serious and telling the public the truth to protect others from being caught in the same situation would hardly qualify as bullying.

Richard E

This report contains suspected Shill/Lackey activity.  Please read with scrutiny.

It annoys me to see people allegedly being ripped off. However if any of the victims wish to contact me with their needs I would be happy to discuss their illusion requirments.

Chris Bowyer
www.magiscape.co.uk

I am not from Germany and I didn't loose any war but I can confirm that this guys are criminals. A very close friend of mine ordered an illusion and never got it. It is true, that this company answers every question very fast, but once you paid them you will never again hear from them and you will not get your illusion.

Just visit the Genii Forum and do a search for Snap Illusion and you will find a lot of Posts and reposrts where people ordered stuff and never got any of them.

This guys are criminals and I hope that they will come in Jail. Feel free to contact me if you need more information!

As has been seen I have a tendency to be on Jack's side in this matter. I do not approve of the Teutonic bullying above. However, there is no doubt that there are many customers who, rightly are wrongly are not satisfied. I do think Jack needs to deal with this before things get completely out of hand if they are not out of hand already.

I have seen no evidence whatsoever of "fraud" so Mr Erb should choose his words carefully. However, I have seen a fair bit of evidence of incompetence and bad business management. I do believe Jack intends to fill the orders but I also believe he is making a bad job of it. One thing he is now belatedly doing right is communicating to everyone putting his point of view. He does have to fight back.

But  more importantly he needs to communicate to his customers especially the overseas ones. Silence is the worst thing you can do. It gets people more agitated and they complain more. Even if all Jack has to impart is bad news about delivery and being behind schedule he should impart it nevertheless. It really is the lesser of two evils.

If he is in a mess he should say straight out that he is in a mess rather than hide from his customers. Openess is the better way unpleasant though that way may be. It will be easier in the long run.

Mr. Erb, 

First of all there are not any "cases" as you are portraying, this is a false statement and you know it. Secondly, as I had stated before, I have the documentation to support my claim that there are charge backs and partial orders already shipped regarding the persons mentioned. I will NOT be discussing this information with you as you are not in entitled to it, as you are neither a part of our company or a legal representative.  Snap Illusions is an LLC, which means you need to direct anything legal you may have ( even though I know you don't have anything legal) to the company, not personally to me. 

On another note, Cyber-Bullying is taken very seriously now and I would suggest you refrain from any further activities which may put you in this category. 



Jack Moyer
Snap Illusions LLC

I released 5 cases and I did not see an answer to any of these Did you take the money and never shipped? Yes or No?

I wanted to address a couple things.  First of all this comment is directed to "Scammed".  Thank you for your postings...the next time you post something, make sure you check the right box, as your postings are coming up "Owner of Company", which is making Mr. Erb go on forums and say that I posted those comments under a different user name.  The correct box you should check, I believe is " I have a consumer comment".

Mr. Erb tends to try to use everything against me, as you know, for his entertainment pleasure.  I am not sure if you can go into the posts that were already made and change them, but I just wanted to clear up the false statement he made about the post.  There are so many false statements being made by this person that it's hard to keep up with them...LOL


As for the listing of the customers he's provided...I have documentation to prove otherwise.  I am not going to dispute this on a forum like this as it's not credible place for disputes. 


Jack Moyer
Snap Illusions, LLC

It seems that Snap Illusions isn't the only one who gets negative reports on this site. The main forum where Jack is being blasted is the Genii Forum. Look at what I came across regarding the owner. It was posted in January.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/producers/richard-kaufman-geni/richard-kaufman-genii-magazine-c9979.htm

Maybe we can get an answer to the cases I have described. Here is another very unhappy customer from Spain.

5. Alessandro Nerilli, Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain

    Order: Origami Illusion (used)

    Paid to Snap Illusions: 2.500 US$ October 2010

    Statement from Alessandroon 31. March 2011: 

    "I have not received any news since 10 January (2011)"

I would suggest to get answers whether all these customers lied or they really paid as described and did not get any product and if so, why this happened. The easiest way to prove us all wrong and end this "never ending story" would be copies of the shiping documents.

Mr. Erb, 

Your cyber bullying and threatening behavior towards my business and my family can not be tolerated.  You have went on a website forum today and claimed that the post above this one in favor of us and against you, was posted by me, this however is a false statement.  When a person goes on this website to post a rebuttal, they have to check the relationship to the company, they get the following choices:

Items marked with ** must be completed or your REBUTTAL / UPDATE will NOT be posted.

Your relationship to the company or individual.

Be sure to select the best category for your situation.

I am the Owner of the Company reported
I am the Individual reported.
I am an Employee of the company.
I am an Employee of the company with inside information.
I am an Ex-Employee of the company reported.
I have a Consumer Suggestion of a constructive solution on how to resolve or avoid this Rip-off in the future.
I have a Consumer Comment
I am none of the above but have comments regarding the Rip-off Report and wish to express my opinion.
 These comments will be treated as "Letters to the Editor". Solid, productive criticism, your opinions and other comments accepted only.  

IF they do not pick one, it automatically picks the first choice of "owner of the company".

Contrary to what you want to believe, there are people out there who want to stand up for us, because they see what you are trying to do, and they find it ( in their words)  disgusting and disturbing.  These people know that we have done nothing wrong and these libelous statements are nothing more than an attempt to get my name or company name to show up on the search engines with some outrageous tagline attached to it, so people will click on it. 

You are misusing this website for your entertainment purposes. 

You have posted on a forum that the last post was made by me...which is not true, any moron would know that you have to check the appropriate box as to what your role is in the post.  The first option is "Owner of the Company".  If you don't check the right box, it will automatically pick the first box...try it and see.  

You really need to stop assuming everything and get down to the facts.

The facts are most people know what you are trying to do , it's very obvious and it's starting to loose and credibility on your part, and now it's just coming off as cyber bullying and threatening behavior. 



Jack Moyer
Snap Illusions

4. Doruk lgen, Istanbul, Turkey
    Order: Origami Illusion (used)
    Paid to Snap Illusions: 2.000 Euro on 02. December 2009
    Statement from Doruk on 14. April 2011: 
    "I received nothing at all"

These are facts and if someone would like to Google these magicians who paid and got nothing, feel free to do so. We all exist and won't disappear. There are more cases of similar bad experience with Snap Illusions and I will release them step by step when appropriate.

I do not ask old WWII veterans to believe me or to guess who lost 60 years ago and why. Such a ridiculous comment speaks for itself and can not change the fact that Snap Illusions takes money without delivering the products.

But one thing really surprises me: The alleged user "Scammed" from Dublin in Ireland, who wrote the update #3 with the funny WWII comment is shown as "Owner of the Company"? Same as update #1 where the "owner of the company" identified himself as Jack Moyer? How can that be explained? Maybe someone forgot to log off and log in again with his second alias?
Thanks for such an interesting disclosure.

 I do not believe one word of Erb's heel clicking and constant threats of legal action on the Genii Forum. There is a reason that the Germans lost the war. If I were Jack I would tell Erb to do his worst and go screw himself which he probably does on a regular basis anyway.

My statements are true and I have the necessary documentation to prove this in any US court.
Below are three examples and I have several more.
Mr. Moyer from Snap Illusions may feel free to prove at any time that he has yet delivered any of these orders to the customers who trusted him and paid the money.

1. Richard Erb, 33100 Paderborn, Germany
    Order: one Origami Illusions
    Paid to Snap illusions: 1.870 US$ in November 2010
    Answer from Jack Moyer on 13.December 2011 after several requests for shipping date
    "Our painters and staff got a little behind due to having some employees out sick.  
    It is being finished now and it won't be much  longer."
    Statement from Richard:
    Until today (13. April 2011) no shipping date, not delivery, no return of payment

2. Claes Cimmerholm, 271 43 Ystad, Sweden
    Order: one "Body twisted illusion" and one "card fountain"
    Paid to Snap illusions:  1.320 US$ on 03. December 2009
                                and      350 US$ on 10. December 2009
    Statement from Claes on 11. April 2011:
    "I have sent a lots of mail to "the Snaps", but never got my things.
      They said that my things was in production and this was one year ago."

3. Niels Harder, 1251RZ Laren (N-H) The Netherlands
    Order: One Crystal Casket (new), one Round Subtrunk (new) one Skewered Illusion (used)
    Paid to Snap Illusions: 2.132,24 Euro on 19. August 2009
    Statement from Niels on 3. April 2011:
    "I never received one illusion from them."

Mr. Moyer may be able to explain that these are unfortunate delays and not simple rip offs.

This is an 100% false statement made by Richard Erb from Germany ( who can't even use his full name for this report) and a poor attempt to get a scandalous headline to come up on a google search.  It's a shame that this website is being used for that reason, which is not the true purpose of this website. 

On the internet anything can be said, that doesn't mean it's true. We have been part of the magic community for 30 years. We have hundreds of satisfied customers who will back us up on that statement.  CLICK TO READ CUSTOMER COMMENTS


Unfortunately when you are the company with the best prices, you tend to step on toes of other people who do not like you for this reason. This is something we have had to put up with from day one in the business and unfortunately it will probably never change.  Certain people have it in their mind that if they go on different websites like this one and post negative things , it will hurt our business and help theirs.  

We also have people who have ordered items with a credit card, got the items and got a chargeback , they kept the product and their money, some of which are those same people he mentions in this report.  Luckily for us throughout the many years we have been in business, we have learned to keep proper documentation on everything and every customer, we have been in the magic community for 30 years...in all that time no one has ever sued us for a product that was not received, the reason?  WE DELIVER THE PRODUCTS TO THE CUSTOMER AS PROMISED!!!!!


There is one thing for certain..we have never just taken someone's money without delivering the product.  That is an absolute lie.  

The positive thing is that although people can go on these sites and try to create bad press for us, it does just the opposite, it attracts attention to us and our website, which in return, gets us new customers, who know how some people in the magic community can be. We are available to provide customer references in which they can personally contact so that they can see that the negative comments are totally false.  

I really think that certain people out there are so frustrated that we are still in business, still delivering products, still getting new customers and still have so many repeat customers, that they have to stoop so low as to make up lies now on these types of websites, as a last ditch effort...sorry to inform those people, that we are not going anywhere, we will still conduct our business and still keep shipping those orders to our happy customers. 

We have just had to get use to all of the FAILED attempts of these people.   They create such outrageous stories, without giving them any thought and don't realize that we will respond to them and show the truth. One good example is that we don't even have a shop to manufacture the products we are selling, so what did we do???  We put a video of the shop on our website:  
Shop Tour

They said we aren't shipping any products?  Had to post a picture of one of our freight companies picking up a shipment on the front of the website:  VIEW PICTURE

I get emails from customers everyday who think this type of behavior is disgusting.  This person likes to use our names as if it was a mystery as to who owns this company.  Everyone knows we are a small family business and everyone knows our names.  Anyone reading this would say probably say "you deal with a lot of childish , vindictive  people..why do you do it".

It is because I have a love for the art of magic and have since I was a child...there are many good supportive customers out there who encourage me that what I doing is a good thing  by providing magicians with illusions at an affordable price.  Most magicians wanting to have a full illusion show, would not be able to have them if they ordered them from the other companies who want to charge 10 times the amount ( which most people can't afford).   I am not making a lot of profit having the prices so low, but I am providing those people the opportunity to have a full illusion show, and that feels good.   It also feels good that these same people come back to me year and year to get new illusions for their show, and they spread the word to their friends and that creates many new customers for us. 


As everyone out there knows on websites like this one, a person is able to register and then post anything they want without proving it's true.  Going on here posting fallacies on this site does not make the claim credible.

Same with the forums and chat sites you can go on..anything can be said. Luckily for us, we have documentation from our many years in the business ( customer files, shipping receipts ) and satisfied customers from all over the world who will gladly stand behind our business and our products. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would be able to figure out that if what was being said where true we would not still be in business.

Jack Moyer
Snap Illusions