• Report: #893096

Complaint Review: A.D.A.T.

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  • Submitted: Tue, June 05, 2012
  • Updated: Fri, June 22, 2012

  • Reported By: Jon — fort collins Colorado U.S.A.
A.D.A.T.
4214 Fleur Drive Suite #14 Internet United States of America

A.D.A.T. Advanced defence awareness training BAIT AND SWITCH SCHEME Internet, Internet

*Consumer Comment: I had a GREAT experience with James at ADAT!

*Consumer Comment: I am also a victim of this bait and switch

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: 99% are happy...good enough for me.

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James at A.D.A.T. market and sells concealed weapons classes through a living social web page. He rents conference
room space at hotels. He books rooms 24 hours in advance of his classes. When you pre-pay for his class he tells you to monitor his 3rd grade web page 24 hours prior to the class you are signed up for. He then changes the location to
a hotel 4 or 5 hour drive from where you purchased the class. He advertises as though he has a local class set-up and then changes it so it is so inconvenient that no one can attend after he has received you payment in full. This is why
he uses the social media to run his company. They are the ones who collect his scam fees for him. He is insulated from fraud by using them and switching locations at the last minute. He does not return phone calls and is a condescending

A**----!

He offers classes all over the Western U.S. and always through "Living Social Deals" and all should be careful to not be scammed. If you confront him he threatens to take your Right to Bear Arms from you like he is some big shot.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 06/05/2012 07:22 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/ADAT/internet/ADAT-Advanced-defence-awareness-training-BAIT-AND-SWITCH-SCHEME-Internet-Internet-893096. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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REBUTTALS & REPLIES:
0Author 2Consumer 1Employee/Owner
Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

I had a GREAT experience with James at ADAT!

AUTHOR: Lindsay - ()

One bad apple does not spoil the whole bunch. I was in a class downtown Denver, not only was it packed but NO ONE seemed to have a problem with the venue. Not only is James a fabulous teacher, but he spent time answering everyone's questions and we were there for HOURS. I have to tell you, it was the BEST 70 bucks my husband and I have ever spent!  There has only been a few times James said he has had to change the venue or the class date/time. Listen people THINGS happen. Weather, overbooking, maybe he was sick or a family member was? It sounds like he was able to 1. give a refund or 2. offer the online option. Not quite sure why you are so disgruntled. We very much enjoyed the class and will be taking the second course on live shooting! Always have to have someone complain. Probably good they didn't get their CCW-Lindsay

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#2 Consumer Comment

I am also a victim of this bait and switch

AUTHOR: Tom - ()

I too have signed up for a classroom style class.  I purchased two seats for my wife and I.  James Moncherry soon after cancelled the class but refused to refund the money.  He suggested just take the online class.   There are many alternative online classes out there. some for much less money.   I saw the value here in a classroom style class.   I have been scammed out of $70.
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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

99% are happy...good enough for me.

AUTHOR: James - (United States of America)

Well it looks like out of 2500 plus new student family members that we have been blessed with from specific "social media" advertising we have one that is unhappy.

We are disappointed to see even one complaint on here however from a statistical point of view we have a total of less than 1% (from this specific group of student family member purchasers) who have had issue with how we operate.

Like any new company we have had some learning curves to work around however we do our best to fix them with efficiency so that less issue arises in that specific nature.

When it comes to how we book our venues we book the majority of them well in advance...most corporate events centers and hotels are not able to offer "24hr booking" like the complaint reflects and we have ample documentation to prove that we book normally 4-6 weeks in advance.

The advance booking is required so that we know the venue to update our (apparently 3rd grade site) , to ensure our amazing instructors  have time to schedule other work and family life around our class dates and of course plenty of time for our students to fit the date into their schedule.

This is in particular to classes we host outside of our home city in Des Moines. In the Des Moines area because we have the flexibility of myself being the local Instructor its easier for me to set up dates usually with a minimum of 2-4 weeks advance set up because its in our own studio.

Outside of private or semi private group bookings (which we offer 24hr booking opportunities for convenience to our students that need "immediate" certification training) we don't see the value or the logic in attempting to book something with less time.

The added time also affords the opportunity to advertise elsewhere (outside of social media deals) using various mediums of advertising which may allow us to get added students signed up for our classes.

Venue changes as stated on the VOUCHER itself do occur however most of our venue changes where done well in advance of posted classes and in fact the locations we have used for the past several months of operation have been the same.

The fact that the voucher says venues may change should be reflective to our students that they may wish to confirm the venue they need to go to...we are not a babysitting service as those we work with are normally adults over 21yrs of age.

99% of our amazing Student Family mark the dates down on a calendar and after registering (majority by email as stated on our website to do) they get a confirmation email again reminding them to ensure the venue they are going to matches what is on the site.

Ironically the few that we have not show up to a class because of the "venue change" are the ones that apparently don't listen well to our voice mail which tells everyone to verify on our website much less actually checking the website for accurate venue changes.

With that we get some that call and are verbally abusive on the phone and quite frankly...we have no reason to tolerate it.

An attempt to diffuse the situation or if necessary hang up is our preferred method of dealing with an abusive caller however on rare occasions we simply have to resort to stating obvious facts in a way that gets the point across and that we don't tolerate "verbal abuse".

The answer that is given a majority of the time to an abusive caller is this: "how do you explain that 99% of the students registered for the class actually made it to the right venue and on time?"

Yes, we do in fact let our students know to check our website 24hrs prior because if there are any EMERGENCY cancellations it will be posted their as it is the most effective and speedy way to inform ALL of our students.

Lack of common sense is for the most part the reason why the large portion of our small "less than 1%" of customers have been unhappy.

If you will not take the time to make this certification process a priority which would include verifying date/time/location (remembering that most of our clients purchased 3months prior so yeah...venue changes are not unreasonable circumstances) and to ensure you arrive "on time" then there is no one to blame but yourself.

We have no obligation to a late student to interrupt the entire class who arrived early not late much less hand hold someone into our class when we provide voice mail and website options and reminders to verify your location/date/time of class.

Those that have purchased on social media deal sites get 3-4 months before their voucher expires. The smart ones who are serious about getting certified book into our first upcoming classes while there are a few that wait days before expiration and expect to be treated like royalty to get into a class that may be already full.

We go beyond what we need to and even EXTEND vouchers to the next available date after expiration as we have a great desire to see our student family use the discounted voucher they purchased.

For those that do a late cancel/reschedule or no show when registered your either going to have a service fee or forfeit your voucher. Its written in the voucher itself and many other businesses operate in that manner as well, not that we need to justify doing so ourselves.

We have many fantastic testimonials most of which we cannot fit on our site and its because we do a great job!

All our instructors at this current time have far more certifications and education beyond that of basic NRA qualifications and with that our classes offer far more than what is expected and in a simplified and relaxed atmosphere that is not intimidating.

Phone calls...we get quite a few (based on alternate advertising outside of social media...go figure) and we enjoy returning them in order in which they come in if the lines are busy.

We have regular operating hours like any business should and that is when you can expect to be served. If we don't get through all the calls that day and if our personal schedules do not permit they get pushed to the following day.

Its why our website is up so that signing up via email is easy and simple to do and the phone is used mainly for those looking to purchase products/services.

With a website that gives info on how to sign up, referral to other amazing sites with excellent conceal carry law and dates/times/locations of upcoming classes we have done a great job of reducing the need to call in the first place.

Personality conflicts may occur especially when any of our staff receives abusive behavior in any way.

We have a ZERO tolerance policy and if you expect to be treated with respect and courtesy then you need to ensure you offer it yourself.

Having run and owned several successful business in the past and upcoming future I have learned long ago that "the customer is not always right".

I have no issue in stating it because for one, its often true and second its far harder to replace an excellent employee than a lousy customer who is abusive to our staff.

We answer the phones politely and do our best to ensure quality service however the line of accepting abuse in anyway is not one I condone.

No one enjoys being verbally abused (vulgar/coarse language) and no one that works with me including myself has a reason to take it.

If you go that route we would simply prefer not to do business with you and your welcome to get your refund and look elsewhere.

Which bring up the next portion about confrontation. First of all, I have yet to have someone "confront me" with any issues.

We all know the types that think they are big shots on the phone or via email and that is usually how any "confrontations" have occurred.

I have not ever threatened to take away ANYONE's right to bare arms away for two reasons.

Number one, last I checked if you are coming to one of our courses and as we explain in our courses you have "already" had that right stripped from you in the first place.

Its why we have the classes.

The second is that only the STATE issues actual permits and has the right to deny or approve the ability for you to regain your right back after taking one of our certification courses or another like it.

About the only option I have as a business owner is to refuse service which I have no issue exercising when someone is verbally abusive or has given ample reason why service should not be rendered.

The good news is that the large majority of the time a refund is supplied and your welcome to find another company to certify through where you can also pay full price.

Alright, I suppose that is it for this rebuttal.

We have a great company with 99% of our Student Family being mature, common sense type people that actual make the issue of getting into the class a priority and who take the small steps of ensuring they show to the correct venue.

Many have offered wonderful testimonials but of course its the huge amount of REFERRALS that we get from our student family that is more than ample proof to us that our business practices and courses are excellent.

We have been in operation "full time" for less than a year yet compared to most we have serviced anywhere from 10-40x more students successfully than our competitors in any one given year.

We are of course learning from all past experiences and getting better as time passes in the areas that need changing.

The fact that we have been blessed to operate in numerous states with our In Class programs and the fact that we are in the final post production process of completing our Online Video Course that will be FREE to those wanting the educational resource is further edifying our positive impact across the USA.

The online options that we have allow those with physical inability to make it to our class, those without transportation or are geographically challenged to reach a class and of course the simple factor of convenience of getting excellent training without having the hassles of traffic, parking and in some cases "putting up with disruptive students" that arrive late.

Our sole mission is to help people regain their 2ND Amendment Right back and in a way that is both educational as well as within a non-intimidating environment.

At this point, for as long as we are satisfying the strong majority of our student family we are more than happy with our results and track record.

If you feel otherwise your welcome to your opinion (however its no ones business what you think) but I strongly encourage those that complain to be "factual" and to ensure that you do not "maliciously defame" any person or company while you do so.

There are significant legal consequences in doing that.

Have a great weekend and remember this simplified version of a quote from an amazing book.

"before you talk about the splinter in another persons eye, first remove the 2x4 from your own"

God Bless and remember you have a RIGHT & Obligation to protect you and your loved ones!
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