International Van Lines (IVL) Also affiliated with MAP Moving & Storage in Emoryville, CA Items Missing and/or Damaged during move. Overcharged and did not provide level of service promised. Coral Springs FL

Sorry for the late update.  After an additional effort to communicate our issues with IVL and having reached a different person, IVL did give us the refund that we had requested.

After posting my report, I took one last shot at communicating with IVL regarding this matter.  The person we originally were dealing with was not in that department anymore.  The person who responded to me apologized for the lack of communication.  I directed him to my last request which I felt was a fair compensation for the lost items and what we felt was an overcharge in the price originally quoted.  He promptly agreed and the company issued a check for the requested amount.  

Since RR policy will not allow removal of our report, I do want to repeat and clarify our original statement in that we did not have a TERRIBLE experience.  The movers that came to our house were actually able to come a day earlier than originally scheduled.  They did a very professional job of loading up the goods.  The stuff missing was not major items, electric tool batteries, a few tools, and a few household items.  Aside from the dent in the washer, all of our furniture arrived in good condition.  Considering some of the other stories I've seen out there, our problems were rather minor.  Thank you IVL for resolving this issue.

The point here is that this site provides not just the ability to file a complaint, but also for an individual with knowledge to share such knowledge so that the next person doesn't have this happen.  I mean that's the reason you post a complaint - so that someone else doesn't select this mover, right.  However, that isn't nearly enough.  I mean just do a search here on this site for IVL and see how many complaints there are.

You decided on your own, and still believe, that you did enough research (WRONG).  You thought that since you drove a truck, that this should provide you enough experience to avoid this scam (WRONG).  Yet you still got ripped off.  Did they do anything you could not have found out about before the move?  NO. 

I mean I posted about this mover last year and that they're a broker as well.  Did you even bother looking at this site before posting?  Clearly you didn't.  I mean you're a complete idiot if you think for even a second you did enough research.  Yet you call me a troll for calling you out for your own general stupidity.  Fool.

The law cannot do anything to stop interstate movers like this; the law almost encourages them to continue.  It mean the only way movers like this stay in business is when idiots like you go online to find a mover.  It therefore becomes necessary for people to truly do research on moving.  I've already provided you places you should have looked before deciding to select a mover - the most important of course is to NEVER select a mover online.  Research a mover online?  YES.  Select a mover?  NO.

I hope in the future you decide to accept some personal responsibility for what happened to you.  This was all avoidable...all of it.

Greetings Jim:

This is my final response.  If you have nothing better to do than troll different sites, God bless you.  This may be a public site but it is NOT like FB or Twitter.  It is not meant for you to come on here and lecture or argue with people about their posts.  It is designed so people can look on here and see about other people's experiences.

Yes I did do my homework.  Yes I knew IVL was a DOT broker but they also do haul their own moves too.  Perhaps you did not do your homework.  I would not consider them a scam.  There were a number of people who had good experiences with IVL.  Anyway, since I also contacted them again at the same time I posted on here, they have contacted me and will be sending me a check.  Following up is good customer service.

Anyway, have a good day.  I hope you find something better to do with your time.

This is a public website Michael.  The public at large and those familiar with the industry as a whole are allowed to respond to posted complaints.  ROR is not like Yelp.  Perhaps that's what you meant.

What is obvious is clearly you did NOT do your homework, otherwise you would have never contacted IVL in the first place.  Remember when you asked whether they would sub-contract your move out?  They told you they would handle the move themselves?  Well, they are a registered broker with the DOT.  Had you come to this website and examine all of the complaints here for this mover, then you would have known this as well.

People can't believe for even a moment this sort of thing happens to them, until it does, and then wonder how companies like this can operate legally, until I explain that (a) whenever a consumer goes online to find a mover, then they are contributing to the problem in the industry, (b) no one at any level of government will do anything about it because the government protects the transportation industry as a whole, and (c) you have very little recourse against a mover unless they perform an illegal act, which happens rarely because the mover knows all of the laws and what not to do. 

Since most consumers generally only move 2-3 times in a lifetime at the most, they don't or aren't familiar with the process.  The mover obviously is.  Being a former trucker does not make you experienced in moving either - even OTR drivers in the moving industry only know the transportation part of the business and know nothing else about it.  They only care they get paid for their load since they happen to be O/O's and summer is prime time for them to make $$.

Probably the best website a consumer should go to to research a move is www.movingscam.com.  Had you gone here, then you would have known never to utilize the internet to find a mover, and certainly you would have never contacted a broker.  So when I tell you that you didn't do your research, this is what I mean.  The moderators at that website likely would have told you to use either of the 2 moving agents in La Mirada, or the Bekins and North American agents nearby.  I know I would have....

Jim, I'm sure you are sincere and mean well, but this is not Facebook or Twitter.

I did do homework and at the time IVL had better marks than others I read, including some local movers.  We actually had a local quote.  In addition, I know 99% of the other information you stated such as the value/weight issues.  As far as the crating some do and some don't. 

I had a LOCAL mover that quoted and said they would crate the hutch and a large printer I have.  IVL said they would match the quote and service.  And yes, as a business person myself I understand credit card disputes.  There are many other large ticket items and services that accept credit cards all the time.  IVL agreed to accept the card.  There is a thing called "negotiation."  I negotiated and asked for what my wife and I wanted.  They could have refused at that time but they didn't.

A "rebuttal" is generally considered to be a response from the party complained about.  Unless you have had some personal experience with IVL to add to this, I wonder why you are responding to this.  Yes, I'm afraid that the moving industry looks like it has a lot of holes in it.  Hopefully it can be improved.

I mean perhaps in their minds.  However, if you had done any research online at all, then you would have found that just about every bad mover in the country is located in Florida - just as these guys are.  If you were really looking for a mover to move you from Norwalk, CA to North Carolina, then why would you pick a mover from Florida? 

Does that make any sense?  The real shame is that If you were really in Norwalk, CA, then there are 2-3 legitimate movers I know of in La Mirada, CA who would have done a great job for you.  But I digress....

We were told that the china hutch we had would be crated.  It wasn't.  The representative from MAP (the movers who showed up to pick up the load), said he did not have any information about crating.  The hutch did arrive ok.  Movers generally don't crate stuff.  They hire a 3rd party to show up to do crating and the process isn't cheap.  I mean you were fortunate, but movers don't crate unless you either authorize them to hire someone else to crate, or you hire a crating company yourself.

When we told him what we had been promised, he made a call, then said we could pay by credit card but there would be a surcharge.  Movers generally don't take credit cards because most customers decide to dispute charges made, which is why the movers only take cashiers check or money orders.

I had requested $1000 to satisfy the missing items and the overcharge.  Since then we have received no contact from anyone at IVL.  I have sent letters to the Florida Dept. of Justice and to the DOT.  The last thing I was told is to write my congressman to complain about the moving regulations.  IVL is supposedly one of the top movers according to one or two web sites.  Yet they did not provide us the level of service they promised.  They did not handle the load directly as they promised.  And then they have totally ignored us since about October of last year.  Doesn't work that way.  You will need to file a claim.  Whoever told you that you were overcharged in all likelihood doesn't have that authority to make that decision - if I had to guess, the mover will come up with an accounting that will indicate you are not owed a refund.  Now to the items claimed as damaged, did you file a claim with the mover?  The mover will evaluate the claim based on the valuation level agreed to in the contract.  Generally, it's $0.60/pound for stuff damaged and $0 for anything lost.  As I said, only in their minds are they a top mover.

It would not be worth the time and effort to file a small claims suit in Florida.  I'm sure they know that and are probably counting on this.  As a former truck driver, I understand that movers need to have some leeway, especially when they have LTL (partial) loads.  But to lose stuff, or have it stolen which appears probable here, and then totally walk away without any responsibility is unacceptable.  Well, except that it's the law.  As a former truck driver, you should know the BOL between the parties governs what happens and you should know all about valuation.  The BOL is always written to favor the mover, so under the Carmack Amendment, you are only allowed to recover per the valuation terms of the BOL.  In fact, if the valuation is for 100 lbs of damaged goods for which you get $60 valuation back, then that's all you can ever recover - court or not - and lost items (you will never prove stolen) are never covered.  If you were a former truck driver, then you had to know the goods loaded in your truck were covered at maybe $0.10-$0.15 valuation if damaged.  So yes, court is not worth it since Carmack bars you from any further recovery.

Florida isn't going to do much of anything to these guys, and the Feds can't because there is nothing in your narrative suggesting the mover did anything illegal.  I'm sorry this happened, but never depend on the internet to (a) find you a good mover; no good mover exists on the internet (b) tell you whether a mover is good or not, since the movers bombard the internet with fake reviews.