Quicken Loans / Fraudulent Executives Quicken Loans is largely responsible for the current crisis at Countrywide Home Loans Livonia Michigan

Ok, Yeah here is the problem: I saw that you replied, and thought to myself, hey, this guy might have an intelligent response. I have been hoping someone from Quicken (or at least someone who terms themselves pro-Quicken') to have a meaningful response.

The actuality: You completely failed. And I can see why, you cannot refute anything I have said, because it is all true.

So, I will make a good pro-Quicken argument for you, because you are incapable of one. But first, let's look at your post:

In the beginning, you call on consumers to hear you out. Ironically, your only misspelled word is promise.' Freudian Slip?

You then (unfortunately) use the typical jargon used at Quicken in training (another hint to your freshness and brainwashed manner). You say you can go to the mortgage broker hut These lines always cracked me up; I have yet to see a broker hut. You then say they will ship them off to whoever pays them most. Yes, this is true. It is ALSO true at Quicken. Why do you think if the profit margin on a loan is not good enough, it gets denied in Lakewood, and then you are told by your director to process it in Countrywide's underwriting system? That is called brokering, and Countrywide charges a quarter point up front. Same thing. Why do you think the loans are priced the way they are? For brokering purposes. The ingenious of Gilbert and Quicken is that not only do they sell the public on their junk, but they sell the employees on it too. You then allude to a consumer paying for a loan that does not close.

NEWSFLASH: 99% of consumer posts on here are just that: they paid for a loan that did not close with Quicken.

Also, you can NOT go to the head of the company. You cannot get an answer. If a loan can close, it can close, if it can't, it can't. Short of approvals for going in the red, re-ordering appraisals, and trying different loans terms (all of which by the way, can happen at any hut'), it is up to the BANKER to do the work.

You then speak of loan shops closing; are you serious? Yes, everyone knows this, it is in the news. It is a financial situation that is unique and has caused great turmoil and has softened the economy much. It is not one person's fault, but it happened. The difference is, Quicken did not close because: churn and burn seat filling kept little striped shirt phone jockeys planning on being rich one day dialing all of the refreshed spam leads. With a fresh supply of these every couple of months, Quicken can afford to lay people off (sorryput them on opportunity letters') then move on.

Which is ironically, your next point.' You say Quicken has lots of turnover. You are right. Yes you are also right that when someone is fired, their director then doles out the leads to people on his team, then during call block they simply pop up on someone else's screen. All this means is that the lead is not pitched. That is not good customer service or anything it is fiscal common sense. If you paid Yahoo for leads, would you pitch them just because you fired the person who got the lead first? NO.

Funny enough, you then say you are easier to get a hold of of course: you have no life, and live at Quicken. I HOPE the next time I get a loan the guy I get it through is not working at a coke factory. I simply do not want to do business with companies like that.

You then move on to something that is the only semi-interesting point you have. You said:
Oh and does it really make a customer feel better to hear that you are making $5000 on their loan while I am only making $500? That's your persuasive argument?
Now you are on to something. A good selling point that Quicken claims is that there is small commission and more loans to do, so LO's at QL are more likely to be honest, fast, and give a good deal.
The problem with this argument of course is that Quicken makes most of its money on the back end of the loan, and with points and fees. With owning its own processing and appraisal company, TSI, it is very easy to turn all of those line items into profit. Also, another fault in the argument you pose is that simply paying employees less does not make a company just or mean they are doing anything right by the customer. Not at all. Now, do other companies also rip off consumers, have bad LO's,.and so on.OF COURSE THEY DO. The truth though is that if you have worked at least one other mortgage place than Quicken, you would eventually see through the facade and see that Quicken is extremely unprofessional and the majority of the employees are simply too inexperienced. But then again, that's what QL wants; a moldable, malleable, young mind (with no sense of anything) to breed into a Quicken Banker; which of course means: someone who lives at their desk and swears that next month will be better. Bottom line: if you are going to wear a suit and tie to talk on the phoneyou should eventually see that as a problem.

You then talk about caps at Quicken: there are no caps. You can close as many loans as you want in a month. The deal is, you can only close enough to make the same as a manager at McDonalds unless you are an Executive or Pres. Club banker.

This statement:
fraud is 100 no 1,000,000 times more prevalent at a broker shop than at Quicken. Why? Because if a broker gets caught they just take that loan to another lender. If I get caught then I am out on my can in an instant.
Is 100%...false. There are finance and mortgage laws. Getting caught is getting caught son, not working at Quicken doesn't get anyone off the hook if they screw up. In fact, Quicken, as a privately owned company, who owns its trainers, owns its appraisal service, does not need to disclose anything to the public whatsoever.is MORE LIKELY TO HAVE FRAUD. At two other mortgage places, I have seen fraud; the people were fired, fined, one even did time. At Quicken, I witnessed large-scale fraud with directors running various credit cards through Lakewood to inflate their numbers (they used the old client and closed client lists). What happened to them? Nothing. In fact, one was promoted. There is a lot of other fraud as well, and a lot of best practices' that qualify as fraud too, but you don't know it because you are not educated on the legal end of lending. Not your fault, you are taught to arc' arp' close' build rapport' close' hang up and do it over and over. It's called telemarketing.

True, people have been fired for not returning calls; as long as they are not on the coke-friendly-club list. This is a fact as Livonia and Cleveland directors themselves have purposely ignored clients, joked about it with RVP's, and remained employed at the company. I know two people who did not return a call, and were fired instantly with no written warning (as the training classes qualify legally as written warning).

You then state that we are bellyachersno, I have provided serious allegations and exposed serious truths that you have yet to refute in any way. That is not bellyaching, it is making a case. You sir, are belly aching. Furthermore, you claim we would all come back.NO WAY. I fell for it once, I won't again. Especially with a job that pays unbelievably well without me spending any more than 5 hours a day working; it's great. Does that sound like bellyaching to you? Or are you just mad then when you are on your fourth call blockI am home relaxing?

Then you say many people make a good living. Awesome, as said before MANY TIMES this does nothing to refute or negate the arguments brought forth about Quickens corruption, arrogance, false promises and lies to employees and customers.

Everyone knows what is expected when they get hired. How could you not? It is there in plain text: you will make between 50-60k in your first year, and you are expected to put in up to 50 hours a week in your first year sounded good to me! So good I decided on my own to put in over 60 hours a week not because I was forced, I liked it. I felt I was doing a good job, at a good place, with good people, and helping people. While I did work hard, do a good job, and work with some good people the rest was totally false.

By the way, the chain on the desk is called ethics. While working there, many people feel the need to support their team, teammates, RVP, director, and try to pull through and so on. In a mortgage crash, people with that much faith in the company, who put in tons of work, were let go, while others who had committed fraud, lied, did drugs, cheat and steal were not only promised to stay, but were given they few leads QL could afford at the time. They were given nothing but a letter'. Other honorable companies did the right thing, and took care of the underlings who worked hard to keep them billionairesthey gave them a tiny piece of their cake and said sorry, here is a severance package and some medical, take some time and find a new job. QL did no such thing. That my friend, is a moral dilemma. One that Daniel Gilbert will answer for, whether he likes it or not.
As for your precious incoming calls, to be on the app call list the Bridge needs to see good numbers and there is s formula for who gets to receive such calls. If someone is good enough to get them, they get them. It is one of the few things Quicken does that makes senseand you refute THAT? You are all backwards son. If they got calls and you didn't, then it was because YOU didn't close.

As far as selling cars, I have a few close friends who sell carsthey make MUCH MORE THAN YOU and all without ripping people off or wasting money on stupid ties.

Am I complaining? No, I am making a point. Again, what you accuse people of is actually what you are doing. Read your post, you complain. You also fail to make an argument. That I will provide for you in a different post, since you are incapable and clearly cannot refute my previous post.

Remember, stand up and dial it works. You will have better command over the phone. Hey, 90% of the money made in the US is from people in sales.Hey, who wants to work at Joes Mortgage Shack?....Hey, c'mon guys, stay out of your email, don't go to the bathroom at call blocks

What a great job you have 'yeah' I envy you I really do.

Hear me out consumers. If you do your loan at Quicken I promse you a few things. One is that you will NOT get the lowest combination of rates and fees. You WILL have to pay a deposit.

---This is an UNDERSTATEMENT. You will get neither low rates OR fees. Quicken by FAR has been the most expensive lender I've ever worked for. I would say on average you're probably looking at an extra .5% in rate and another $1500 in fees. I have no contention about the deposit...it is what it is. Most of the large lenders are going to make you pay one and most brokers will just have you pay for the appraisal at the door. The only thing I don't like about it is the way it's held over the heads of the consumers.

But you can be SURE that your loan will not go untouched. You can go to the Mortgage Broker Hut on the corner but they have no control over your loan. They will gather your documents and then ship them off to whomever pays THEM the most. They can try and call and check up on the progress but they have no control. Remember when you kept calling and they said that they would check on it and get back to you? Yeah, the loan got denied at 4 places and they are trying a 5th. Sure you didn't put down a deposit but you DID shell out $400 at the door to pay for the appraisal. What difference is there? You still paid for a loan that isn't closed yet.

---No, it will not go untouched. Quicken has a pretty decent processing system. It's just frustrating when the processors (CCS) know so little about processing. I could mentally run circles around them. If anybody asks them something that's not on the script they get, they have no idea what to do with it. I worked as a broker as well.....there's no difference between the two. You have no more control as a banker at Quicken than you do as a broker. In both cases it's about your relationship with the underwriters. In fact, one of the most unresponsive underwriters I've ever worked with was at Quicken. This is to say nothing other than Quicken doesn't have a leg up just because they have in house underwriters.

In regards to brokers shopping the loan around, what difference does it make? You've already said that a broker is cheaper to work with...who cares how much they make?

Brokers have more options anyway. You'd agree that not every lender has the same guidelines, right? Well if for some reason your loan at Quicken gets denied (happens all the time), you're out of luck, and the appraisal cost. With a broker, they can take the same appraisal and submit it to another lender with different guidelines. That SAVES the consumer money.

I can go to the head of our company and get an answer today. In 10 minutes.

--- You can? Whom exactly would it be that you talk to? The HEAD of the company? Let's stop being dramatic.

Oh and guess what? There is ZERO chance of us closing down in the next 30 days. Ask your broker how their bottom line is doing. Over 20,000 broker shops in the US have closed in the past 18 months. What happens when you call to check up on your loan and the number is disconnected?

--- Quicken will probably never close. They've got their system down pat. With the strong-arm style of selling they have there, they'll survive. If you like to be belittled and talked down to, they're definitely the lender for you. And if they're that bad to the consumers on the phone, just think what they say about them off the phone.

Okay, Quicken has a lot of turnover. I agree. But I GUARANTEE you that if your LO quits or gets canned that your loan isn't going anywhere. You WILL here from someone very soon.

--- You will, but there's going to be a lot of frustration on the consumer's part. Most likely the banker is no longer there because they had no idea what they were doing.....so you're loan is probably in VERY bad shape. That goes to the inexperience of most bankers there. I hate to say it, but most of them are literally just out of abc warehouse or their local for dealership. They have no idea about mortgages and personal finance.

Heere's another one, I PROMISE you that your Quicken LO is 1000 times easier to get ahold of than your broker. He's on the golf course, I'm at my desk.

--- Again, this depends on the individual and not the company. You may be, but how many co-workers do you have avoid calls? Come on now, be honest. I saw it ALL the time.

Oh and does it really make a customer feel better to hear that you are making $5000 on their loan while I am only making $500? That's your persuasive argument?

--- Apples and oranges my friend. What do they care what their banker is making? As long as the cost and rate are lower at the broker, wouldn't they WANT their broker to make more? This means that they've got more at stake. What would you pay more attention to, a loan that makes you $500 or $5000?

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Consumer - I promise you that the guy that you look in the eye has JUST as much chance of ripping you off as anyone at Quicken. Oh, wait - Quicken caps how much an LO can make - the odds are less at Quicken.

--- Ripping you off? Again, you've already conceded the fact that Quicken WILL CHARGE YOU MORE....remember? When I worked as a broker, if my clients didn't understand something, or had a question, I'd just have them drop by the office or I'd meet them at theirs. It's much easier to get complete explanations face to face. Remember, this job is about HELPING people feel comfortable with their financing. Most people don't have the same knowledge you or I have when it comes to mortgages.

I've been there, I promise you that fraud is 100 no 1,000,000 times more prevalent at a broker shop than at Quicken. Why? Because if a broker gets caught they just take that loan to another lender. If I get caught then I am out on my can in an instant. I can give you 50 examples of people at Quicken that have been fired for fraud, not returning your calls, not working hard enough FOR THE CUSTOMER. Guess where they all are - at a broker shop. What does that mean to you Mr. Client? Well the fraudster can go to jail (VERY infrequently) but you can lose your home!!!

--- Again, not true. It depends on the banker. I've seen just as much at Quicken as I have when I was a broker. In fact, my director was fired for "alleged" fraud just after I left the company. He was the one that was supposed to be setting the example. Does that seem right to you?

Now you can listen to the bellyachers on here cry and complain about the company, I know them. Every one of them would come back to work here if they could. No one said that Quicken was perfect but I promise you that they all made good money here if they could make it longer than a year. The hours are long and it's not an easy job. But there are many, many people that make a very good living.

--- Nope, I wouldn't. It's not for me. Don't like the environment....don't like the people. It's just not a good place to work. That's the bottom line. I was consistently the highest producer on my team. In fact, last year I won a contest for production throughout the company. Guess what....the money wasn't that great. I had made more at previous places.

At no time have you heard me complain or bellyache. I think I've actually given a fairly unbiased look at Quicken.

And everyone of them knew what was expected of them when they got hired.

--- When I was hired, I was told that the job would be 50 hours a week. In actuality, I was belittled by management if I didn't put in 65 hours. To spell it out, that would me 12 hours M-F and 5 hours on Saturday.

I also don't remember any chains on anyone's desk - they were all welcome to quit at ANY time. Unfortunately they stuck around and took my incoming calls and didn't close.

--- You're right...and I did leave.

Thanks for leaving - go back to selling cars. Enjoy waiting your turn. An 'Up' is coming any minute now. Theses same guys complaining are now selling you undercoating and death insurance on your car.

--- This again goes to show the mindset at Quicken. I've never taken a personal at anybody on here, and they this is the response I get. For the record, I'm not selling cars. I have a fantastic job and am making more money that I was at Quicken. I'm lucky, not everybody that leaves Quicken is.

From the sound of things, you're probably not a bad banker. You're articulate, and probably have a good knowledge about the business. I'll reiterate what I stated in my last post. When you call Quicken (or get a call form them), you as the consumer have no idea the level of knowledge and experience the person you're dealing with has. Why not go local where you can spend time "interviewing" different lenders and brokers face to face? It may not guarantee a problem free financing process, but there's a MUCH better chance of it.

Would you like to debate any other points that I've brought up?

Hear me out consumers. If you do your loan at Quicken I promse you a few things. One is that you will NOT get the lowest combination of rates and fees. You WILL have to pay a deposit.

---This is an UNDERSTATEMENT. You will get neither low rates OR fees. Quicken by FAR has been the most expensive lender I've ever worked for. I would say on average you're probably looking at an extra .5% in rate and another $1500 in fees. I have no contention about the deposit...it is what it is. Most of the large lenders are going to make you pay one and most brokers will just have you pay for the appraisal at the door. The only thing I don't like about it is the way it's held over the heads of the consumers.

But you can be SURE that your loan will not go untouched. You can go to the Mortgage Broker Hut on the corner but they have no control over your loan. They will gather your documents and then ship them off to whomever pays THEM the most. They can try and call and check up on the progress but they have no control. Remember when you kept calling and they said that they would check on it and get back to you? Yeah, the loan got denied at 4 places and they are trying a 5th. Sure you didn't put down a deposit but you DID shell out $400 at the door to pay for the appraisal. What difference is there? You still paid for a loan that isn't closed yet.

---No, it will not go untouched. Quicken has a pretty decent processing system. It's just frustrating when the processors (CCS) know so little about processing. I could mentally run circles around them. If anybody asks them something that's not on the script they get, they have no idea what to do with it. I worked as a broker as well.....there's no difference between the two. You have no more control as a banker at Quicken than you do as a broker. In both cases it's about your relationship with the underwriters. In fact, one of the most unresponsive underwriters I've ever worked with was at Quicken. This is to say nothing other than Quicken doesn't have a leg up just because they have in house underwriters.

In regards to brokers shopping the loan around, what difference does it make? You've already said that a broker is cheaper to work with...who cares how much they make?

Brokers have more options anyway. You'd agree that not every lender has the same guidelines, right? Well if for some reason your loan at Quicken gets denied (happens all the time), you're out of luck, and the appraisal cost. With a broker, they can take the same appraisal and submit it to another lender with different guidelines. That SAVES the consumer money.

I can go to the head of our company and get an answer today. In 10 minutes.

--- You can? Whom exactly would it be that you talk to? The HEAD of the company? Let's stop being dramatic.

Oh and guess what? There is ZERO chance of us closing down in the next 30 days. Ask your broker how their bottom line is doing. Over 20,000 broker shops in the US have closed in the past 18 months. What happens when you call to check up on your loan and the number is disconnected?

--- Quicken will probably never close. They've got their system down pat. With the strong-arm style of selling they have there, they'll survive. If you like to be belittled and talked down to, they're definitely the lender for you. And if they're that bad to the consumers on the phone, just think what they say about them off the phone.

Okay, Quicken has a lot of turnover. I agree. But I GUARANTEE you that if your LO quits or gets canned that your loan isn't going anywhere. You WILL here from someone very soon.

--- You will, but there's going to be a lot of frustration on the consumer's part. Most likely the banker is no longer there because they had no idea what they were doing.....so you're loan is probably in VERY bad shape. That goes to the inexperience of most bankers there. I hate to say it, but most of them are literally just out of abc warehouse or their local for dealership. They have no idea about mortgages and personal finance.

Heere's another one, I PROMISE you that your Quicken LO is 1000 times easier to get ahold of than your broker. He's on the golf course, I'm at my desk.

--- Again, this depends on the individual and not the company. You may be, but how many co-workers do you have avoid calls? Come on now, be honest. I saw it ALL the time.

Oh and does it really make a customer feel better to hear that you are making $5000 on their loan while I am only making $500? That's your persuasive argument?

--- Apples and oranges my friend. What do they care what their banker is making? As long as the cost and rate are lower at the broker, wouldn't they WANT their broker to make more? This means that they've got more at stake. What would you pay more attention to, a loan that makes you $500 or $5000?

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Consumer - I promise you that the guy that you look in the eye has JUST as much chance of ripping you off as anyone at Quicken. Oh, wait - Quicken caps how much an LO can make - the odds are less at Quicken.

--- Ripping you off? Again, you've already conceded the fact that Quicken WILL CHARGE YOU MORE....remember? When I worked as a broker, if my clients didn't understand something, or had a question, I'd just have them drop by the office or I'd meet them at theirs. It's much easier to get complete explanations face to face. Remember, this job is about HELPING people feel comfortable with their financing. Most people don't have the same knowledge you or I have when it comes to mortgages.

I've been there, I promise you that fraud is 100 no 1,000,000 times more prevalent at a broker shop than at Quicken. Why? Because if a broker gets caught they just take that loan to another lender. If I get caught then I am out on my can in an instant. I can give you 50 examples of people at Quicken that have been fired for fraud, not returning your calls, not working hard enough FOR THE CUSTOMER. Guess where they all are - at a broker shop. What does that mean to you Mr. Client? Well the fraudster can go to jail (VERY infrequently) but you can lose your home!!!

--- Again, not true. It depends on the banker. I've seen just as much at Quicken as I have when I was a broker. In fact, my director was fired for "alleged" fraud just after I left the company. He was the one that was supposed to be setting the example. Does that seem right to you?

Now you can listen to the bellyachers on here cry and complain about the company, I know them. Every one of them would come back to work here if they could. No one said that Quicken was perfect but I promise you that they all made good money here if they could make it longer than a year. The hours are long and it's not an easy job. But there are many, many people that make a very good living.

--- Nope, I wouldn't. It's not for me. Don't like the environment....don't like the people. It's just not a good place to work. That's the bottom line. I was consistently the highest producer on my team. In fact, last year I won a contest for production throughout the company. Guess what....the money wasn't that great. I had made more at previous places.

At no time have you heard me complain or bellyache. I think I've actually given a fairly unbiased look at Quicken.

And everyone of them knew what was expected of them when they got hired.

--- When I was hired, I was told that the job would be 50 hours a week. In actuality, I was belittled by management if I didn't put in 65 hours. To spell it out, that would me 12 hours M-F and 5 hours on Saturday.

I also don't remember any chains on anyone's desk - they were all welcome to quit at ANY time. Unfortunately they stuck around and took my incoming calls and didn't close.

--- You're right...and I did leave.

Thanks for leaving - go back to selling cars. Enjoy waiting your turn. An 'Up' is coming any minute now. Theses same guys complaining are now selling you undercoating and death insurance on your car.

--- This again goes to show the mindset at Quicken. I've never taken a personal at anybody on here, and they this is the response I get. For the record, I'm not selling cars. I have a fantastic job and am making more money that I was at Quicken. I'm lucky, not everybody that leaves Quicken is.

From the sound of things, you're probably not a bad banker. You're articulate, and probably have a good knowledge about the business. I'll reiterate what I stated in my last post. When you call Quicken (or get a call form them), you as the consumer have no idea the level of knowledge and experience the person you're dealing with has. Why not go local where you can spend time "interviewing" different lenders and brokers face to face? It may not guarantee a problem free financing process, but there's a MUCH better chance of it.

Would you like to debate any other points that I've brought up?

Hear me out consumers. If you do your loan at Quicken I promse you a few things. One is that you will NOT get the lowest combination of rates and fees. You WILL have to pay a deposit.

---This is an UNDERSTATEMENT. You will get neither low rates OR fees. Quicken by FAR has been the most expensive lender I've ever worked for. I would say on average you're probably looking at an extra .5% in rate and another $1500 in fees. I have no contention about the deposit...it is what it is. Most of the large lenders are going to make you pay one and most brokers will just have you pay for the appraisal at the door. The only thing I don't like about it is the way it's held over the heads of the consumers.

But you can be SURE that your loan will not go untouched. You can go to the Mortgage Broker Hut on the corner but they have no control over your loan. They will gather your documents and then ship them off to whomever pays THEM the most. They can try and call and check up on the progress but they have no control. Remember when you kept calling and they said that they would check on it and get back to you? Yeah, the loan got denied at 4 places and they are trying a 5th. Sure you didn't put down a deposit but you DID shell out $400 at the door to pay for the appraisal. What difference is there? You still paid for a loan that isn't closed yet.

---No, it will not go untouched. Quicken has a pretty decent processing system. It's just frustrating when the processors (CCS) know so little about processing. I could mentally run circles around them. If anybody asks them something that's not on the script they get, they have no idea what to do with it. I worked as a broker as well.....there's no difference between the two. You have no more control as a banker at Quicken than you do as a broker. In both cases it's about your relationship with the underwriters. In fact, one of the most unresponsive underwriters I've ever worked with was at Quicken. This is to say nothing other than Quicken doesn't have a leg up just because they have in house underwriters.

In regards to brokers shopping the loan around, what difference does it make? You've already said that a broker is cheaper to work with...who cares how much they make?

Brokers have more options anyway. You'd agree that not every lender has the same guidelines, right? Well if for some reason your loan at Quicken gets denied (happens all the time), you're out of luck, and the appraisal cost. With a broker, they can take the same appraisal and submit it to another lender with different guidelines. That SAVES the consumer money.

I can go to the head of our company and get an answer today. In 10 minutes.

--- You can? Whom exactly would it be that you talk to? The HEAD of the company? Let's stop being dramatic.

Oh and guess what? There is ZERO chance of us closing down in the next 30 days. Ask your broker how their bottom line is doing. Over 20,000 broker shops in the US have closed in the past 18 months. What happens when you call to check up on your loan and the number is disconnected?

--- Quicken will probably never close. They've got their system down pat. With the strong-arm style of selling they have there, they'll survive. If you like to be belittled and talked down to, they're definitely the lender for you. And if they're that bad to the consumers on the phone, just think what they say about them off the phone.

Okay, Quicken has a lot of turnover. I agree. But I GUARANTEE you that if your LO quits or gets canned that your loan isn't going anywhere. You WILL here from someone very soon.

--- You will, but there's going to be a lot of frustration on the consumer's part. Most likely the banker is no longer there because they had no idea what they were doing.....so you're loan is probably in VERY bad shape. That goes to the inexperience of most bankers there. I hate to say it, but most of them are literally just out of abc warehouse or their local for dealership. They have no idea about mortgages and personal finance.

Heere's another one, I PROMISE you that your Quicken LO is 1000 times easier to get ahold of than your broker. He's on the golf course, I'm at my desk.

--- Again, this depends on the individual and not the company. You may be, but how many co-workers do you have avoid calls? Come on now, be honest. I saw it ALL the time.

Oh and does it really make a customer feel better to hear that you are making $5000 on their loan while I am only making $500? That's your persuasive argument?

--- Apples and oranges my friend. What do they care what their banker is making? As long as the cost and rate are lower at the broker, wouldn't they WANT their broker to make more? This means that they've got more at stake. What would you pay more attention to, a loan that makes you $500 or $5000?

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Consumer - I promise you that the guy that you look in the eye has JUST as much chance of ripping you off as anyone at Quicken. Oh, wait - Quicken caps how much an LO can make - the odds are less at Quicken.

--- Ripping you off? Again, you've already conceded the fact that Quicken WILL CHARGE YOU MORE....remember? When I worked as a broker, if my clients didn't understand something, or had a question, I'd just have them drop by the office or I'd meet them at theirs. It's much easier to get complete explanations face to face. Remember, this job is about HELPING people feel comfortable with their financing. Most people don't have the same knowledge you or I have when it comes to mortgages.

I've been there, I promise you that fraud is 100 no 1,000,000 times more prevalent at a broker shop than at Quicken. Why? Because if a broker gets caught they just take that loan to another lender. If I get caught then I am out on my can in an instant. I can give you 50 examples of people at Quicken that have been fired for fraud, not returning your calls, not working hard enough FOR THE CUSTOMER. Guess where they all are - at a broker shop. What does that mean to you Mr. Client? Well the fraudster can go to jail (VERY infrequently) but you can lose your home!!!

--- Again, not true. It depends on the banker. I've seen just as much at Quicken as I have when I was a broker. In fact, my director was fired for "alleged" fraud just after I left the company. He was the one that was supposed to be setting the example. Does that seem right to you?

Now you can listen to the bellyachers on here cry and complain about the company, I know them. Every one of them would come back to work here if they could. No one said that Quicken was perfect but I promise you that they all made good money here if they could make it longer than a year. The hours are long and it's not an easy job. But there are many, many people that make a very good living.

--- Nope, I wouldn't. It's not for me. Don't like the environment....don't like the people. It's just not a good place to work. That's the bottom line. I was consistently the highest producer on my team. In fact, last year I won a contest for production throughout the company. Guess what....the money wasn't that great. I had made more at previous places.

At no time have you heard me complain or bellyache. I think I've actually given a fairly unbiased look at Quicken.

And everyone of them knew what was expected of them when they got hired.

--- When I was hired, I was told that the job would be 50 hours a week. In actuality, I was belittled by management if I didn't put in 65 hours. To spell it out, that would me 12 hours M-F and 5 hours on Saturday.

I also don't remember any chains on anyone's desk - they were all welcome to quit at ANY time. Unfortunately they stuck around and took my incoming calls and didn't close.

--- You're right...and I did leave.

Thanks for leaving - go back to selling cars. Enjoy waiting your turn. An 'Up' is coming any minute now. Theses same guys complaining are now selling you undercoating and death insurance on your car.

--- This again goes to show the mindset at Quicken. I've never taken a personal at anybody on here, and they this is the response I get. For the record, I'm not selling cars. I have a fantastic job and am making more money that I was at Quicken. I'm lucky, not everybody that leaves Quicken is.

From the sound of things, you're probably not a bad banker. You're articulate, and probably have a good knowledge about the business. I'll reiterate what I stated in my last post. When you call Quicken (or get a call form them), you as the consumer have no idea the level of knowledge and experience the person you're dealing with has. Why not go local where you can spend time "interviewing" different lenders and brokers face to face? It may not guarantee a problem free financing process, but there's a MUCH better chance of it.

Would you like to debate any other points that I've brought up?

Hear me out consumers. If you do your loan at Quicken I promse you a few things. One is that you will NOT get the lowest combination of rates and fees. You WILL have to pay a deposit.

---This is an UNDERSTATEMENT. You will get neither low rates OR fees. Quicken by FAR has been the most expensive lender I've ever worked for. I would say on average you're probably looking at an extra .5% in rate and another $1500 in fees. I have no contention about the deposit...it is what it is. Most of the large lenders are going to make you pay one and most brokers will just have you pay for the appraisal at the door. The only thing I don't like about it is the way it's held over the heads of the consumers.

But you can be SURE that your loan will not go untouched. You can go to the Mortgage Broker Hut on the corner but they have no control over your loan. They will gather your documents and then ship them off to whomever pays THEM the most. They can try and call and check up on the progress but they have no control. Remember when you kept calling and they said that they would check on it and get back to you? Yeah, the loan got denied at 4 places and they are trying a 5th. Sure you didn't put down a deposit but you DID shell out $400 at the door to pay for the appraisal. What difference is there? You still paid for a loan that isn't closed yet.

---No, it will not go untouched. Quicken has a pretty decent processing system. It's just frustrating when the processors (CCS) know so little about processing. I could mentally run circles around them. If anybody asks them something that's not on the script they get, they have no idea what to do with it. I worked as a broker as well.....there's no difference between the two. You have no more control as a banker at Quicken than you do as a broker. In both cases it's about your relationship with the underwriters. In fact, one of the most unresponsive underwriters I've ever worked with was at Quicken. This is to say nothing other than Quicken doesn't have a leg up just because they have in house underwriters.

In regards to brokers shopping the loan around, what difference does it make? You've already said that a broker is cheaper to work with...who cares how much they make?

Brokers have more options anyway. You'd agree that not every lender has the same guidelines, right? Well if for some reason your loan at Quicken gets denied (happens all the time), you're out of luck, and the appraisal cost. With a broker, they can take the same appraisal and submit it to another lender with different guidelines. That SAVES the consumer money.

I can go to the head of our company and get an answer today. In 10 minutes.

--- You can? Whom exactly would it be that you talk to? The HEAD of the company? Let's stop being dramatic.

Oh and guess what? There is ZERO chance of us closing down in the next 30 days. Ask your broker how their bottom line is doing. Over 20,000 broker shops in the US have closed in the past 18 months. What happens when you call to check up on your loan and the number is disconnected?

--- Quicken will probably never close. They've got their system down pat. With the strong-arm style of selling they have there, they'll survive. If you like to be belittled and talked down to, they're definitely the lender for you. And if they're that bad to the consumers on the phone, just think what they say about them off the phone.

Okay, Quicken has a lot of turnover. I agree. But I GUARANTEE you that if your LO quits or gets canned that your loan isn't going anywhere. You WILL here from someone very soon.

--- You will, but there's going to be a lot of frustration on the consumer's part. Most likely the banker is no longer there because they had no idea what they were doing.....so you're loan is probably in VERY bad shape. That goes to the inexperience of most bankers there. I hate to say it, but most of them are literally just out of abc warehouse or their local for dealership. They have no idea about mortgages and personal finance.

Heere's another one, I PROMISE you that your Quicken LO is 1000 times easier to get ahold of than your broker. He's on the golf course, I'm at my desk.

--- Again, this depends on the individual and not the company. You may be, but how many co-workers do you have avoid calls? Come on now, be honest. I saw it ALL the time.

Oh and does it really make a customer feel better to hear that you are making $5000 on their loan while I am only making $500? That's your persuasive argument?

--- Apples and oranges my friend. What do they care what their banker is making? As long as the cost and rate are lower at the broker, wouldn't they WANT their broker to make more? This means that they've got more at stake. What would you pay more attention to, a loan that makes you $500 or $5000?

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Consumer - I promise you that the guy that you look in the eye has JUST as much chance of ripping you off as anyone at Quicken. Oh, wait - Quicken caps how much an LO can make - the odds are less at Quicken.

--- Ripping you off? Again, you've already conceded the fact that Quicken WILL CHARGE YOU MORE....remember? When I worked as a broker, if my clients didn't understand something, or had a question, I'd just have them drop by the office or I'd meet them at theirs. It's much easier to get complete explanations face to face. Remember, this job is about HELPING people feel comfortable with their financing. Most people don't have the same knowledge you or I have when it comes to mortgages.

I've been there, I promise you that fraud is 100 no 1,000,000 times more prevalent at a broker shop than at Quicken. Why? Because if a broker gets caught they just take that loan to another lender. If I get caught then I am out on my can in an instant. I can give you 50 examples of people at Quicken that have been fired for fraud, not returning your calls, not working hard enough FOR THE CUSTOMER. Guess where they all are - at a broker shop. What does that mean to you Mr. Client? Well the fraudster can go to jail (VERY infrequently) but you can lose your home!!!

--- Again, not true. It depends on the banker. I've seen just as much at Quicken as I have when I was a broker. In fact, my director was fired for "alleged" fraud just after I left the company. He was the one that was supposed to be setting the example. Does that seem right to you?

Now you can listen to the bellyachers on here cry and complain about the company, I know them. Every one of them would come back to work here if they could. No one said that Quicken was perfect but I promise you that they all made good money here if they could make it longer than a year. The hours are long and it's not an easy job. But there are many, many people that make a very good living.

--- Nope, I wouldn't. It's not for me. Don't like the environment....don't like the people. It's just not a good place to work. That's the bottom line. I was consistently the highest producer on my team. In fact, last year I won a contest for production throughout the company. Guess what....the money wasn't that great. I had made more at previous places.

At no time have you heard me complain or bellyache. I think I've actually given a fairly unbiased look at Quicken.

And everyone of them knew what was expected of them when they got hired.

--- When I was hired, I was told that the job would be 50 hours a week. In actuality, I was belittled by management if I didn't put in 65 hours. To spell it out, that would me 12 hours M-F and 5 hours on Saturday.

I also don't remember any chains on anyone's desk - they were all welcome to quit at ANY time. Unfortunately they stuck around and took my incoming calls and didn't close.

--- You're right...and I did leave.

Thanks for leaving - go back to selling cars. Enjoy waiting your turn. An 'Up' is coming any minute now. Theses same guys complaining are now selling you undercoating and death insurance on your car.

--- This again goes to show the mindset at Quicken. I've never taken a personal at anybody on here, and they this is the response I get. For the record, I'm not selling cars. I have a fantastic job and am making more money that I was at Quicken. I'm lucky, not everybody that leaves Quicken is.

From the sound of things, you're probably not a bad banker. You're articulate, and probably have a good knowledge about the business. I'll reiterate what I stated in my last post. When you call Quicken (or get a call form them), you as the consumer have no idea the level of knowledge and experience the person you're dealing with has. Why not go local where you can spend time "interviewing" different lenders and brokers face to face? It may not guarantee a problem free financing process, but there's a MUCH better chance of it.

Would you like to debate any other points that I've brought up?

Hear me out consumers. If you do your loan at Quicken I promse you a few things. One is that you will NOT get the lowest combination of rates and fees. You WILL have to pay a deposit.

But you can be SURE that your loan will not go untouched. You can go to the Mortgage Broker Hut on the corner but they have no control over your loan. They will gather your documents and then ship them off to whomever pays THEM the most. They can try and call and check up on the progress but they have no control. Remember when you kept calling and they said that they would check on it and get back to you? Yeah, the loan got denied at 4 places and they are trying a 5th. Sure you didn't put down a deposit but you DID shell out $400 at the door to pay for the appraisal. What difference is there? You still paid for a loan that isn't closed yet.

I can go to the head of our company and get an answer today. In 10 minutes.

Oh and guess what? There is ZERO chance of us closing down in the next 30 days. Ask your broker how their bottom line is doing. Over 20,000 broker shops in the US have closed in the past 18 months. What happens when you call to check up on your loan and the number is disconnected?

Okay, Quicken has a lot of turnover. I agree. But I GUARANTEE you that if your LO quits or gets canned that your loan isn't going anywhere. You WILL here from someone very soon.

Heere's another one, I PROMISE you that your Quicken LO is 1000 times easier to get ahold of than your broker. He's on the golf course, I'm at my desk.

Oh and does it really make a customer feel better to hear that you are making $5000 on their loan while I am only making $500? That's your persuasive argument?

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Consumer - I promise you that the guy that you look in the eye has JUST as much chance of ripping you off as anyone at Quicken. Oh, wait - Quicken caps how much an LO can make - the odds are less at Quicken.

I've been there, I promise you that fraud is 100 no 1,000,000 times more prevalent at a broker shop than at Quicken. Why? Because if a broker gets caught they just take that loan to another lender. If I get caught then I am out on my can in an instant. I can give you 50 examples of people at Quicken that have been fired for fraud, not returning your calls, not working hard enough FOR THE CUSTOMER. Guess where they all are - at a broker shop. What does that mean to you Mr. Client? Well the fraudster can go to jail (VERY infrequently) but you can lose your home!!!

Now you can listen to the bellyachers on here cry and complain about the company, I know them. Every one of them would come back to work here if they could. No one said that Quicken was perfect but I promise you that they all made good money here if they could make it longer than a year. The hours are long and it's not an easy job. But there are many, many people that make a very good living.

And everyone of them knew what was expected of them when they got hired.

I also don't remember any chains on anyone's desk - they were all welcome to quit at ANY time. Unfortunately they stuck around and took my incoming calls and didn't close.

Thanks for leaving - go back to selling cars. Enjoy waiting your turn. An "Up" is coming any minute now. Theses same guys complaining are now selling you undercoating and death insurance on your car.

Reading through the posts above and seeing the employee responses, it brings me back to the days of working there. You'll see in the post above the mindset of "I'm better than everybody else" that is very typical there. It's just a defense mechanism that becomes commonplace at quicken. Imagine dialing through your leads for 14 hours a day and constantly being hung up on. It's their way of handling the rejection.

Let's face it. At quicken you're ALWAYS fighting against places with lower rates. Quicken's "par" rates (the interest rate at which the consumer doesn't pay points and the banker gets no premium from up-selling) are always built in with a 2-2.5% premium that Quicken rakes in. That means on a $200,000 loan, Quicken is making $4,000-$5,000 in revenue on that loan. Since it was par, the commission paid to the average banker is only $200-$300 of that. Granted, they've spend a tremendous amount of money paying for the leads that they buy, but why should the average consumer pay for that? In the months that I was hitting $50,000, in revenue to the company, I was only seeing $4,000-$5,000 of that. I know that's what I signed up for, but wow.....I get sick thinking about all of the equity that was funneled out of the consumers homes into the quicken pockets.

In comparison, the average broker is looking to make $2000 in revenue on a loan. Obviously, people are in this business to make money, but I think there needs to be reason.

Is Quicken different than other large companies out there? No, probably not. In fact, it's probably better than most.

Is every banker at Quicken horrible? No, not at all. But when a consumer decides to call in or gets called by a banker form a lead, it's a crap shoot as to whom you get. Why take a chance. I would URGE all of those that read this to stay with a local bank or broker. Don't do business with somebody you can't look in the eye. It's your house you're dealing with!

I would CHALLENGE any Quicken employee to refute me on anything that I've said.

"If the banker does not take a deposit that individual banker is on the hook for the cost of the appraisal."

Right, this is what is called pyramid economics. You require money before work is done. Also (and I did this myself) you fight the return of the deposit.

"Now remember that Quicken orders tens of thousands of appraisals per month so they get a huge discount from appraisers. They use their muscle to drive their prices down."

Common misconception, but being that you are brainwashed, I can see how you would fall for this one. Just so you know, other companies charge the exact same amount (often less, sometimes more). Overall, there is nothing at all competitive about Quicken's appraisal pricing. There also is certainly nothing competitive about requiring money upfront. This is usually the sign of a scam (ever get one of those "send me your credit card number, and I will send you a free iPod emails?).
Another common misconception is this huge exaggeration of the amount of business conducted by QL. It is really hilarious. Why not just "we do billions of loans a day, we rock, and uh...we do coke too."

"If the loan doesn't close SOMEONE has to pay for the appraisal and the junk QLSS or whatever it's called now fee - it's either the customer or the banker. Not Danny G."
Right, the banker not Danny G. You are approaching an interesting conclusion. The 24k a year banker pays for it before the multibillionaire. Because, the upper middleclass RDMB pays for it before the upper class RVP pays for it, who in turn pays for it before the company level VP of MB pays for it, who in turn pays for it before Emerson...who will in turn, pay for it before Danny.

"Most Loan Officers will charge according to the level of commitment of the client along with the probability of the loan actually closing."
No, most loan officers do exactly as they are told by their director (some demand a $750 'commitment' up front from all clients, some say let me know if you need me to approve a $300 deposit...the standard practice is $500. I did ones with no deposit, and one with $1000 deposit, both closed...so the deposit means nothing, except it is a means to an end).

"$300 if it's a slam dunk loan - i.e. a loan where if the appraisal comes back light the loan will still close. If you are looking for a $200,000 loan and you say that your home is worth $800,000 then there's a good chance that the loan will close even if the home appraises for $500k."

Really? If it is a slam dunk and that much commitment is obtained from the client, why not do a $750 deposit? What's the difference? It is all 'given back at closing' right??? You are simply alluding to the fact that, the deposit is a scam.

"If your loan is for $700k and you tell me your house is worth $800k then I may take $500 just to make sure that I am covered."

If you are a true advocate for your clients, you are always covered because in the event of a loan going totally belly up because it (ultimately, always, regardless of the bankers claim or excuses) is the bankers fault everytime and the company will back you up and refund it right? Because it is a legitimate company, stands by its workers and products and practices? Oh wait...never mind.
If too many of your clients get deposits returned, you get put on a letter because you are not looking out for Danny.

"Now if you say that you still want to shop around, maybe compare my rates (high) to everyone elses then I am going to take $600 maybe $750 just to lock you into staying with me even after you find a lower rate elsewhere."
Now you have reached what the deposit truly is: ransom. If you have money from someone already, it becomes much easier to bully them into closing. I know, I did it too.

"My line to you will be something along the lines of:"
Exactly, your 'line'. The practiced stupid arcs that are the crux of a large group of individuals who claim to be sales people. I could teach an 8 year old to say such things.

"Mr. Customer, you are going to save $25 per month by going to company X. I want you to do what's right for you and your family but $25 per month and I have $750 of your dollars already that you will lose"
Ahh...the ransom is shown here...good job...'banker'.

"remember that was our handshake for doing business - you are not going to break even on that $750 for 30 months ($750 divided by $25 that you will save)."
This is funny, because, yes they will break even, and possibly sooner. You are leaving amortization and closing costs out of the equation my friend. This is called a "fallacy by omission" But then again...why should you learn anything but pointless arcs and arps...nevermind.

"We both know how much things change in 2 and a half years and you probably won't even be in this loan then."
This is the fallacy of assumption. If they did stay for even one more month than you are claiming (which is likely given the market 5 year trends predicted), then they would save money (even excluding closing costs). Not to mention the fact that if they report you, they will get the deposit back.

"Are you prepared to walk away LOSING money?"
This is called a 'threat'. It is also really far from any skill in sales whatsoever.

"If you are a male I will call you out on it - 'Aren't you a man of your word?'. Whatever it takes to get you to do a loan."
Whatever it takes yes...because, you need your 200 dollars right? Pathetic. You need the cheering phone monkeys clapping really fast for 5 seconds in your honor as you smile that you just wrote a decent, albeit shoddy and poorly sold loan to someone by bullying them. Also pathetic. If you had skills, you would make more than 200, I can tell you that right now.

"I am a better salesman than you are as a customer. I will win."
This is absolutely incomprehendable. You are seriously suffering in the brain to type this. I didn't know that it is salesperson vs. customer...especially if you are claiming to do what's right for them. By the way, if you ever called me or anyone I know...you would not get the sale. WE would call you out to be the striped structure shirt wearing, faux hawk sporting, coke snorting, redbull guzzling replicate that you are. A crowd pleaser, one who needs attention but does not care about honor, integrity, service, honesty, and certainly not 'doing the right thing' And we would say "how about dont call me ever again"
But its ok...you have a ton of touchpoint leads right? Go get em souljah.

"That's why I drive a Porsche and you drive a Honda."
Ok, let's assume you do drive a Porsche:
you pay a lot in gas and payments and insurance for something that sits in a lot all day while you...'dial your leads'. Luxery cars are for people with successful careers who therefore have the time to enjoy them. You my friend, are a poseur who should not own one, as you are insulting it by only driving it to work at 8 am, home at 8pm...and maybe to a fastfood place in between. And with your measly salary and measly commission...Even if it is a low level 911 (honestly, just an overpriced honda with a porsche ornament)...you will really be struggling to add those fake rims to it.
Lets assume you dont own a Porsche:
Who cares. A car is a thing. It is not permanent. If I truly wanted a Porsche, I could save money, finance it, lease it, whatever. I have options there. But you, you dont have the option of: growing a pair, being yourself, being original, being honorable, being a better person. These things take time and effort...something you dont have working at QL.

By the way, if you do drive one...look out the window at it at about 7pm...(pretend you are dialing leads so you dont get in trouble) and think to yourself that I have been off work for about 4 hours already at that time...and have been cruising around enjoying my 'honda'.

Danny actually explains this to you in orientation and he is right: time is precious and cannot be replaced...so why waste it in a cubicle making money for someone else and not yourself?

WAKE UP.

Here is how the deposit works:

Bankers are required to take a deposit from every single client where a loan in originated. If the banker does not take a deposit that individual banker is on the hook for the cost of the appraisal. Now remember that Quicken orders tens of thousands of appraisals per month so they get a huge discount from appraisers. They use their muscle to drive their prices down.

If the loan doesn't close SOMEONE has to pay for the appraisal and the junk QLSS or whatever it's called now fee - it's either the customer or the banker. Not Danny G.

Most Loan Officers will charge according to the level of commitment of the client along with the probability of the loan actually closing.

$300 if it's a slam dunk loan - i.e. a loan where if the appraisal comes back light the loan will still close. If you are looking for a $200,000 loan and you say that your home is worth $800,000 then there's a good chance that the loan will close even if the home appraises for $500k.

If your loan is for $700k and you tell me your house is worth $800k then I may take $500 just to make sure that I am covered.

Now if you say that you still want to shop around, maybe compare my rates (high) to everyone elses then I am going to take $600 maybe $750 just to lock you into staying with me even after you find a lower rate elsewhere.

My line to you will be something along the lines of:

"Mr. Customer, you are going to save $25 per month by going to company X. I want you to do what's right for you and your family but $25 per month and I have $750 of your dollars already that you will lose - remember that was our handshake for doing business - you are not going to break even on that $750 for 30 months ($750 divided by $25 that you will save). We both know how much things change in 2 and a half years and you probably won't even be in this loan then. Are you prepared to walk away LOSING money? "

If you are a male I will call you out on it - "Aren't you a man of your word?". Whatever it takes to get you to do a loan.

I am a better salesman than you are as a customer. I will win. That's why I drive a Porsche and you drive a Honda.

You seem to describe our experience perfectly.

The person attacking me & lecturing me on how to raise my family is my old director. I have more class than to mention him by name. He obviously doesn't. I am not afraid of any of those coke sniffers at Quicken.

They are just afraid their latest batch of kids living in mom and dads house will read this and realize they are being used for the greater of those at the top of the pyramid. Hell, even the directors are probably realizing this by now. How many Cleveland directors have quit in the past year?

Everything about them if phony. Their high energy, passion, etc.. is all phony and artificial, fueled by red bull, slushies, and most importantly, coke. I cannot believe this crap is not only tolerated, but pretty much a requirement to stay on their good side.

Malachai, as you said, most are disgusted that Cracken could not just "do the right thing" and admit they had to lay off people during the roughest mortgage crisis ever. They made up reasons to fire people who gave them 12-14 hours a day. None given verbal warnings unless they knew their rights. By not allowing them to get unemployment, this made sure they were screwed financially. Who had time to look for legit employment working 12+ hours 5 days a week and at least 1 day on the weekend? Your company sucks and feels they are above any labor laws. Maybe they are, we will see, what I think we will win the lawsuit if their is any justice. As I said before, even if we do prevail, probably 10-20% of those eligible signed up so Quicken got free overtime out of the rest.

I know through reading these posts that there is currently one class action lawsuit against Quicken brought by former Quicken "mortgage bankers", and possibly a second. I don't know whether you are not permitted, due to the law suit, to have any communication with anyone regarding Quicken's lending practices, however, it would be very helpful to those of us, would be borrowers, who have lost anywhere from $300 to $750 for Quicken's up-front fee, to present their inside knowledge of how this operation functions to the FTC. Just for my own curiosity, how does Quicken determine the amount. Example: Last names from "A - "C" get charged $300, "D - "G" $500 etc., or is there another method used? Hope you get "em".

"All You Ex-Employees are a bunch of Losers Who could not cut it at Quicken Loans"

Well, right there your argument lost all possible validity. If you want to resort to childish antics, at least wait until you have formulated something substantial. By the way, you do no such thing throughout any of your post. Which, coincidentally, you clearly 'took time to type' and for some reason thought you were saying something good.

"Steve- Malachi- Jonathan Smith and all others who constantly post on this site"

I do not 'constantly post'. Sometimes I am too busy with all my freetime (that you don't have) I have since I have a real job making more than you are making.

"I am sick and tired of all of you posting your poison about this company."

No you're not. You affords you the opportunity to log in here, post, and feel that much closer to Danny G., the rest of the crew and of course...your sacred patron saint of coke, your regional director. Also, if you were truly 'sick and tired of it...' you would do what why I do when I am sick about hearing about Britney Spears: turn off the tv, turn off the computer, and go for a leisurely walk with my wife and enjoy the sunshine and all the freetime we have. Oh...you can't do that. I'm sorry...try looking out of the window by your cubicle (wait until call block is over, you don't want to get in trouble) and see if you can see a bird...imagine you can fly. I hear that works for inmates at Rikers Island.

"Why don't you just admit you are a bunch of losers who could not make it here."

Because doing so would be subscribing to a fallacy that you are attempting to perpetuate. If I was a loser who could not make it, I would have left the company or have been fired. Neither was the case my friend. I was layed off due to market conditions; which is fine and understandable. The only problem is no one wants to admit that that is what happened. That is what needs to be admitted to. Also, the bottom line is, debasing yourself down to a generalization of "if you are not here, you couldn't make it or it wasn't for you..." mentality demonstrates your blind buy in, your inability to come up with something better, and your inevitable fate to always be struggling at the pyramid making more money for DG and your regional D/VP than you are for yourself. Keep up the good work, When the sun goes down and you are still yelling at people to dial their leads and ask for credit cards (by the way, some people in the world...say...90%...maybe even 99%...call this phenomena...TELEMARKETING, because that is what it is)...you can think of me. I will have already been home from work for about 4 to 5 hours and already made my $300 for the day. Who is the loser? And I don't mean this in a condescending way...seriously. I feel bad that you are stuck there. For god sakes man, get out. Get a real job. Enjoy your life. Realize what you are doing...maybe you need to watch Fight Club.

"I have plenty of 20 year olds who are making $100,000+ per year as successful mortgage bankers."

hehe...no you dont. but thanks for that, it reminds me of the new hire pamphlets. Good stuff...did you know a unicorn lives in my backyard...seriously, cool stuff.

"You are probably all working at various speedway stations around the city as coffee barristers making $7.50 per hour. 'Do you have your speedway awards card?' Thats what you are doing for a living now."

Where did this come from? I thought about talking to you about this...but that kind of talk would cost you $200-$300 per hour and require a leather couch. I don't have a leather couch. Don't believe in sitting around you know???

"If you were not such a bunch of lazy 'n-----rs' maybe you would still be working here helping people all across the country with their finances."

This was hilarious for many reasons. One, anytime someone uses the 'N' word, it makes me laugh. Like on Dave Chappelle. Two, if the measure of whether or not someone is lazy, according to your logic, is determined by whether or not they work at Quicken...then there is a couple of battallions of Special Forces guys out there that are 'really lazy.' Thirdly, helping people with their finances....?!?!?! Cmon. Seriously? You mean helping your local Armani store with their finances by blowing your measly commission check on a suit. A suit whos only fate is to sit in a chair, get soaked in sweat as you crunch numbers and wonder..."how come I made more as an executive banker than I am now as a director..." When you figure that out my friend, you will learn the magic of QL.

"Get a life and don't expect a overtime check since we are not going to lose."

I do have a life actually. And it is beyond a cubicle. Sorry for your situation.
As far as overtime goes...you are already losing. Dont check it out while you are at work...they might...put you on a letter or something...ha, what freedom you have.

"All of you make me sick to my stomach."

No, its the popcorn, slushies, coke, alcohol, and cheap cologne that's making you sick.

"I would like to meet the some of you in the Greenmead parking lot and beat the crap out of you."

This is always the last ditch effort of someone who has nothing to say I have noticed. This is typically what low IQ people say when they are cornered and forced to think. Sorry man, maybe you should stop reading things other than that dwindling product matrix. Hey, try reading some ARCs...those are great. At any rate, you would not last 2 minutes with me.

"However none of you would show up since you are not man or women enough to show your face or post your real names."

So now you wish to beat up women in a parking lot? You are a class act. By the way, you sir are not man enough. Not man enough to admit when you are wrong, stupid, or otherwise failed as a human being, which you are.

"It's easy to hide behind these posting and spew your venom."

Really? It seems difficult for you. After all that is what you just did. We are exposing truth, you sir, and spewing venom. And in a very inefficient and weak way too might I add.

"Grow up and get a life LOSERS!!!!"

I did. One day you will too and you can see what it's like to have a 3 day weekend.

Your argument that someone is bad at their job' is called an ad hominem argument. An ad hominem fallacy occurs when someone attacks the person making an argument, rather than their argument. When one refers to lack of quality of something, you cannot then turn to the one making such an argument and accuse them of the results from the lack of quality.

Your burden of proof is to show that they are not lacking in quality, that they are in fact, good leads. You have not done so. Not in any way shape or form. Mind you, even though I know as well first hand that Quickens leads are junk (hence their spam law suit), I tried to read your post as objectively as possible. I found no evidence in it that supports the opposition to Mr. Campisi's (and many others) claims.
Also, the overall point of the RipOff Reports on QL is not to say that our jobs were bad' or that we didn't make money'. The point is that it is an unethical place of employment, and all of us donated a lot of time, effort, and trust to the company. To this argument, you have provided even less of an opposition than the first one. And being that this is the main argument, it is as if you didn't post at all.
Also you refer to production averages. What are the production averages? The highest I saw in a day was 6, and we all know who that was someone who also gets, coincidentally, the best leads the company has to offer (basically, the only good ones that have not been triple dialed or mentioned in their spam lawsuit for recycled leads). Now, 6 loans. If lucky, only 1 falls out. That's 5 loans. Let's do that 6 days a week, for four weeks. Assuming the first weeks folders take 3 weeks to close, the second weeks folders take 2 weeks to close, the third weeks folders take only 1 week to close, and the last weeks folders close within the week they are written (impossible by the way), that would leave us with 120 loans written in one month! And 120 closed in one month! So that would be $24000 in commission right? Plus $2000 for salary = $26000. Wow, you mean to tell me it's .possible to make 34.5 million a year as a banker at Quicken?!?!?!?! Wow, yes it is!! After allthere is no cap on commission. The sky is the limit.

Then again, it is also possible to fight Chuck Liddell and Quentin Jackson at the same time and win. Seriouslyit's possible. By knockout. C'mon, if you believe it, you'll see it right?
You also stated you would lecture him on how to raise a family you forgot to do it. Also, when you talk about accountability, you fail to recognize that you are being accountable for nothing. Not to yourself, your clients, your friends, no one by posting such fruitless garbage.

Also, you say he is quick to attack and give excuses. Even if that is the case, what is your post made up of my friend? I'll tell you: 100% attacks and excuses. You attack the man's ability to work, to raise a family, and you even state that he is making excuses regarding people doing drugs.

You also say no matter how many good points that are brought up you will simply come back to these comments with jokes about drugs and divorce.

I searched for your good points' my friend I came up with about how much quality work you do between 800-830am 0. Do they still do those early bird call blocks? Call block. Think about it, you are sitting here, actually angrily typing, because someone is insulting your career' choice of sitting in a cubicle trying to be a salesperson on a phone for 14 hours a day.

You know what makes me madthat I was once as dumb as you. That I too, sat there and thoughtwow, I'll close this one, and write another today I'm on my way and even doing 3 in one day, or 10 in a week, it didn't matter. 24k salary is a joke my friend. And the bottom line is the difference between 100k and 24k is 76k or 31 LOANS A MONTH FOR 12 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS. And off of junk spam leads at that. Let me know when you hit those numbers kid. You never will, because you can't not because you suck no no not insulting you. But you won't because you physically, can't. And Quicken knows this.

Finally, you also posted this:
I do want you to stick to the point please. With all of the layups that Quicken provided you, how could you have possibly not succeeded?

He then responded and what happened to you? Hopefully you got a real job.

Your argument that someone is bad at their job' is called an ad hominem argument. An ad hominem fallacy occurs when someone attacks the person making an argument, rather than their argument. When one refers to lack of quality of something, you cannot then turn to the one making such an argument and accuse them of the results from the lack of quality.

Your burden of proof is to show that they are not lacking in quality, that they are in fact, good leads. You have not done so. Not in any way shape or form. Mind you, even though I know as well first hand that Quickens leads are junk (hence their spam law suit), I tried to read your post as objectively as possible. I found no evidence in it that supports the opposition to Mr. Campisi's (and many others) claims.
Also, the overall point of the RipOff Reports on QL is not to say that our jobs were bad' or that we didn't make money'. The point is that it is an unethical place of employment, and all of us donated a lot of time, effort, and trust to the company. To this argument, you have provided even less of an opposition than the first one. And being that this is the main argument, it is as if you didn't post at all.
Also you refer to production averages. What are the production averages? The highest I saw in a day was 6, and we all know who that was someone who also gets, coincidentally, the best leads the company has to offer (basically, the only good ones that have not been triple dialed or mentioned in their spam lawsuit for recycled leads). Now, 6 loans. If lucky, only 1 falls out. That's 5 loans. Let's do that 6 days a week, for four weeks. Assuming the first weeks folders take 3 weeks to close, the second weeks folders take 2 weeks to close, the third weeks folders take only 1 week to close, and the last weeks folders close within the week they are written (impossible by the way), that would leave us with 120 loans written in one month! And 120 closed in one month! So that would be $24000 in commission right? Plus $2000 for salary = $26000. Wow, you mean to tell me it's .possible to make 34.5 million a year as a banker at Quicken?!?!?!?! Wow, yes it is!! After allthere is no cap on commission. The sky is the limit.

Then again, it is also possible to fight Chuck Liddell and Quentin Jackson at the same time and win. Seriouslyit's possible. By knockout. C'mon, if you believe it, you'll see it right?
You also stated you would lecture him on how to raise a family you forgot to do it. Also, when you talk about accountability, you fail to recognize that you are being accountable for nothing. Not to yourself, your clients, your friends, no one by posting such fruitless garbage.

Also, you say he is quick to attack and give excuses. Even if that is the case, what is your post made up of my friend? I'll tell you: 100% attacks and excuses. You attack the man's ability to work, to raise a family, and you even state that he is making excuses regarding people doing drugs.

You also say no matter how many good points that are brought up you will simply come back to these comments with jokes about drugs and divorce.

I searched for your good points' my friend I came up with about how much quality work you do between 800-830am 0. Do they still do those early bird call blocks? Call block. Think about it, you are sitting here, actually angrily typing, because someone is insulting your career' choice of sitting in a cubicle trying to be a salesperson on a phone for 14 hours a day.

You know what makes me madthat I was once as dumb as you. That I too, sat there and thoughtwow, I'll close this one, and write another today I'm on my way and even doing 3 in one day, or 10 in a week, it didn't matter. 24k salary is a joke my friend. And the bottom line is the difference between 100k and 24k is 76k or 31 LOANS A MONTH FOR 12 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS. And off of junk spam leads at that. Let me know when you hit those numbers kid. You never will, because you can't not because you suck no no not insulting you. But you won't because you physically, can't. And Quicken knows this.

Finally, you also posted this:
I do want you to stick to the point please. With all of the layups that Quicken provided you, how could you have possibly not succeeded?

He then responded and what happened to you? Hopefully you got a real job.

Your argument that someone is bad at their job' is called an ad hominem argument. An ad hominem fallacy occurs when someone attacks the person making an argument, rather than their argument. When one refers to lack of quality of something, you cannot then turn to the one making such an argument and accuse them of the results from the lack of quality.

Your burden of proof is to show that they are not lacking in quality, that they are in fact, good leads. You have not done so. Not in any way shape or form. Mind you, even though I know as well first hand that Quickens leads are junk (hence their spam law suit), I tried to read your post as objectively as possible. I found no evidence in it that supports the opposition to Mr. Campisi's (and many others) claims.
Also, the overall point of the RipOff Reports on QL is not to say that our jobs were bad' or that we didn't make money'. The point is that it is an unethical place of employment, and all of us donated a lot of time, effort, and trust to the company. To this argument, you have provided even less of an opposition than the first one. And being that this is the main argument, it is as if you didn't post at all.
Also you refer to production averages. What are the production averages? The highest I saw in a day was 6, and we all know who that was someone who also gets, coincidentally, the best leads the company has to offer (basically, the only good ones that have not been triple dialed or mentioned in their spam lawsuit for recycled leads). Now, 6 loans. If lucky, only 1 falls out. That's 5 loans. Let's do that 6 days a week, for four weeks. Assuming the first weeks folders take 3 weeks to close, the second weeks folders take 2 weeks to close, the third weeks folders take only 1 week to close, and the last weeks folders close within the week they are written (impossible by the way), that would leave us with 120 loans written in one month! And 120 closed in one month! So that would be $24000 in commission right? Plus $2000 for salary = $26000. Wow, you mean to tell me it's .possible to make 34.5 million a year as a banker at Quicken?!?!?!?! Wow, yes it is!! After allthere is no cap on commission. The sky is the limit.

Then again, it is also possible to fight Chuck Liddell and Quentin Jackson at the same time and win. Seriouslyit's possible. By knockout. C'mon, if you believe it, you'll see it right?
You also stated you would lecture him on how to raise a family you forgot to do it. Also, when you talk about accountability, you fail to recognize that you are being accountable for nothing. Not to yourself, your clients, your friends, no one by posting such fruitless garbage.

Also, you say he is quick to attack and give excuses. Even if that is the case, what is your post made up of my friend? I'll tell you: 100% attacks and excuses. You attack the man's ability to work, to raise a family, and you even state that he is making excuses regarding people doing drugs.

You also say no matter how many good points that are brought up you will simply come back to these comments with jokes about drugs and divorce.

I searched for your good points' my friend I came up with about how much quality work you do between 800-830am 0. Do they still do those early bird call blocks? Call block. Think about it, you are sitting here, actually angrily typing, because someone is insulting your career' choice of sitting in a cubicle trying to be a salesperson on a phone for 14 hours a day.

You know what makes me madthat I was once as dumb as you. That I too, sat there and thoughtwow, I'll close this one, and write another today I'm on my way and even doing 3 in one day, or 10 in a week, it didn't matter. 24k salary is a joke my friend. And the bottom line is the difference between 100k and 24k is 76k or 31 LOANS A MONTH FOR 12 CONSECUTIVE MONTHS. And off of junk spam leads at that. Let me know when you hit those numbers kid. You never will, because you can't not because you suck no no not insulting you. But you won't because you physically, can't. And Quicken knows this.

Finally, you also posted this:
I do want you to stick to the point please. With all of the layups that Quicken provided you, how could you have possibly not succeeded?

He then responded and what happened to you? Hopefully you got a real job.

First off, he has no loyalty to the midwest as he says. He knows it is a desperate workforce willing to put up with all kinds of crap out of desperation. They will probably run into problems with Arizona after the newness wears off. There are actually many opportunities out there.
Great point concerning the layoffs. Gilbert will push the envelope as long as he can until someone challenges him. As he tells his telemarketers, er...bankers, it is a numbers game. Just like the class action lawsuit, Cracken knows they will lose, but it doesn't matter. Since only about 10-20% of all telemarketers signed up, he got free overtime (20-40 hours per marketer) free. * It is a win win situation. As long as they can keep existing T-marketers from joining the suit out of fear, some that have left are still afraid to get in on it. That is alot of free overtime. As for it being there own business, what happens when a marketer leaves as 90% do after about a year? Do they get to keep their customers? Of course not! So it is not your own business. They will even try to prevent employees from working for a legit lender. Remember the 200 pages you signed in matter of a few minutes without getting copies during brainwashing..I mean Orientation. You are definately right that this company is fueled by RedBull and Fear. Just don't forget coke, very important element.
As for the layoffs, if the state knows they are shady, why not force them to pay unemployment to the 1700 they laid off? Who is he paying off? The problem is, he can break labor laws, and then when he gets caught, he is just told to stop and no recoarse for the previous crimes.
To Director/Hater, thanks for reading this and not IGNORING THE NOISE. Danny would not be happy.

RE:Kwame Caught- Who's next Jennifer or Danny ?

About 8 months ago they let go of about 1700 bankers, then when the state stepped in to tell them they have to anounce lay offs or the state would cut their funding they mysteriously stopped firing people. Its a tough place to work and requires massive hours. If you have a family then is not a good fit for you. QL is fueled almost exclusivly by redbull and fear. And trust me when I tell you both of those are handed out by the handfulls by the powers that be. QL does funny things like force you to go to 4 hour long off site meetings and then have the audacity to ask you come in on the weekend saying things like " its you bussiness, run it how you want to" translation, what time saturday will i see you.

I was not given layups. I was basically cold calling people 5 times a day who were being contacted by 50 lenders. The layups were for the chosen few who were able to cherry pick teamates leads, given layups from directors and managers, given app calls till their phones rang off the hook, etc... Meetings held where they told certain "bankers" they were going to be taken care of. But, even if was being taken care of, I would not have prospered since I could not lie to clients. I could not stomach the fact they were changing so-called "Locked rates" before closing. Telling people they had "full" approvals only to hold up the deal for some crap reason.

If you have a conscience, are motivated by more than money, do not desperately need coke money, there is not passion. They screwed lots of clients and I could not sleep at night working for a company that jerked homebuyers and homeowners around and did not think twice. They tried to weasel out of a huge referral of mine without even telling me. I think all is fine, ready to close and the client gives me a call frantic. How could I ever use that referral source again?

To answer your question DIRECTOR-I was never given a layup and even if I was, I had a conscience and could not jerk people around on their biggest asset. DIRECTOR, you will not understand this since your biggest asset is a vile of coke, a watch, or a big screen tv, but take my word for it, a home is a big deal. I sold life insurance for over 7 years, for the most part had to put it on the backburner while at CRACKEN, but the company I would for never screwed over a client, never backed off of a promise. A telemarketer would not understand, but being used to face to face sales, your word is all you got.

A director who is no longer there told a few of us, that 99% of what they tell you is bs.
As I said, even if I was making huge money, which 99% of quicken bankers are not, that is why 9 out of 10 do not stay after about a year, I still wouldn't do it.

My famiily comes first. I will not sacrafice my family to make the people at the top of a pyramid grossly wealthy. I can make a good living working 40-50 hours.

I appreciate your response to my last post. I do want you to stick to the point please. With all of the layups that Quicken provided you, how could you have possibly not succeeded? Certainly you could have make a killing with all of the layups.......

I was just wondering how you did not prosper...........

I never complained about my situation at Cracken...er, Quicken, although it did suck. I am just disgusted how they screwed others. Getting every last drop of sweat out of these guys before firing them. Not letting them get unemployment, but having no time to find work for a legitimate company. No regard for how they were going to pay their bills in the meantime. I saw the writing on the wall and found a real job before they could lay me off, I mean, let me go due to production in the worst mortgage crisis ever.
The company I went to was flooded with applications from Quicken employees. They got about 50-100 resumes from quicken employees in July, August, and September. I am sure many other local companies can say the same.
I just want to know why lenders such as Countrywide, National City, etc.. had to lay off, but Dan Gilbert was proud to say Quicken did not lay off anyone. No more letters were given in July and August than any other time. Good one! Lies, Lies, Lies!!! Gilbert is a genius, although he breaks labor laws. He churns and burns, but gets 12-15 hours a day, 6-7 days a week before they burn out. All this for $200 per loan. Question: Why would a real salesperson work for $200 per loan when they could get $2,000 +.
I am glad that Quicken management is reading this. Mission accomplished. I'll let you know how much I get when the law suit is won. I am also glad that when you Google Quicken, Rip off Report is near the top!!!

The funniest thing that I have seen you write is that employees of quicken are order takers and that all of the loans originated are layups. if that were the case, how come you could not write any loans?

you were really bad at your job.

instead of attacking the company, couldn't you address the issue that your production was far below the average, and you never saw success in any way, shape or form?

I will lecture you on how to raise a family and take care of a family, because your posts prove one very important point about your personality. you lack the ability to take accountability for your actions or lack of production. It is always someone else's fault. that no one can be successful and not do drugs. that the company cheats their clients. not once do you recognize that you were not good - but you are quick to attack and give excuses.

At the end of the day, no matter how many good points that are brought up you will simply come back to these comments with jokes about drugs and divorce.

Please take some accountability and stop blaming others for your inability to do your job well.

maybe you should not have missed so many layups.

Thanks for the advice on "providing for a family." Any employee of Cocaine Loans....err Quicken Loans is an authority on raising a family. How many "bankers" are getting divorced this week? What Quicken sheep don't realize is that you can actually make a living outside of Cracken Loans. Making more money and working half the hours. I remember talking to a couple of people who were at the tops of the revenue and asking them what type of paycheck they got. Both said, you'd be surprised, I was disappointed, not nearly as much as expected.

As for salesperson, any real mortgage salesperson would work for a broker and get more than a few hundred per loan. They realize this after being taken advantage of by Gilbert for a few months. But in order to be a salesperson, one needs to generate leads. Not just write layups. How many referrals do you get per loan? You have no idea what a salesperson does. But you most likely are a good order taker!

As for passion, it is hard to be passionate working for quicken if you are motivated by something other than money. Once they started changing their "locked rates" just before closing, the passion left. My word was meaningless. If you are doing this job without stimulants and have a conscience, the passion is gone. Oh yeah, and the "full approvals" they screw people with all the time. What a joke!

Since most quicken management and so called "bankers" have never owned a home, they don't realize what a big deal it is to yank people around when dealing with their home.

After being at Quicken a few months, it becomes apparent that all they are is a marketing machine that charges much higher rates than REAL direct lenders. They have no regard for deposits of the consumers, accepting them when they know d**n well the loan will never close. Hard to be passionate if you have any morals.

Once again, thanks for the advice on raising a family. Means alot coming from one big dysfunctional family know as Quicken.

To Steve Campisi -

I want to get something off my chest.

If you worked half as hard at selling loans as you do posting on this site, you would be a presidents club banker by now.

You were not productive for a single month that you were with the company.

you will make an excellent customer service rep somewhere, but you will never make it as a salesperson.

you were a total disaster with the company.

no sense blaming others for you failing - it just was not your bag.

also, there are people from your training class that went through the tough periods that you did, and made it and are doing well now.

I wish you showed some of the passion you show on this site when you were employed at quicken. you would have been so much better.

good luck to you and your family. if your job performance at quicken is any reflection of how you provide for your family, I feel sorry for them.

good luck

Who cares if you are sick of hearing the truth about Quicken. Maybe we are sick of you costing thousands upon thousands their homes with your shady lending practices. Maybe we are sick of you polluting the Cleveland area with your coke addicted directors and bankers. The only ones who benefit from you are the drug dealers in Ohio, Michigan, and Arizona.

Wow ! Quicken is really taking a pounding from reports of fraud. I've heard of several stroies of alleged embezzlement as well. Any word on the Danny Pack saga ?

To: The Director of Mortgage Banking

Dear Sir: Quicken Loans will soon be under Federal Investigation for Predatory Lending. I would like to comment on your response which reflects a very unprofessional manner to either current or past employees. Also the victims (customers) for which are being victimized here. You may demeanor anyone you wish but let me just state that I come from a banking background with Fortune companies and to name a few, Bank of America, NationsBank, Great Western Corporate and Norwest Corporate. To all current employess, past employess and victimized customers, Quicken Loans is doing wrong to you all. The business practices here are not legal and will be reflected. Continue your complaints as many governmental organizations such as the FBI use this resource for purposes as these.


If you want to lose money go with Quicken Loans!!! It is all about Bait and Switch and Predatory Lending here folks. They will give you a Good Faith Estimate but at closing throw in all kinds of extra excuses and fees. Here is my experience:

1. Application deposit $500 refundable, not true. If you ask for a check at closing for this amount the banker will say sure. At closing this changes and they roll it into your loan. But if you don't qualify your out $500 dollars. Here is the way to beat them. If you want out and your $500 back, follow through with the loan, get the paperwork for your appraisals and then recind or back out within the 3 day limit. No matter what they have to give you the $500 back through HUD. You Win!!! They Lose!!!!

2. They will also push appraisals on you to make more money and even suggest a second if the first doesn't come back high enough. The appraisers they use are also in on this, they will use low comparibles, foreclosures, bank owned short sales which will lower your value and affect everything with the housing market that is happening in our economy today. These are the people that are lowering our housing values not investors as that is a very small percentage compared to these people. Again play their game, follow through, get the appraisal done, close the loan and then back out within 3 days to get your $500 back.

3. Check all your settlement charges very careful as they will most likely change these to increase and make money off of you. In my case they charged me for 2 appraisals for $630.00 when it should have been one. I was charged for TSI Appraisal Services twice in the amount of $160 when it should have been half of that. This is the best one though, they tried to increase my rate but then charged me for an additional point of $3000 because I had a for sale sign in my front yard when the first appraiser came but not the second appraiser. They used the second appraiser/appraisal but charged me the $3000 because of the first one being there.

4. Most lending companies if you escrow through them also take out a cushion or escrow reserve in which it is included in your payment. It is an additional on average $80-$100 of your payement. No they never tell you this but you can have it removed by law with a request from the lending company. This company refuses to do this!!! Countrywide will do this and many other things for you, good company!!!

Stay away from Quicken Loans, they are a Marketing Company and will sell off your loan right away. Their loans are handled by a servicer and it is a mess!!!

Their day will come especially if we all continue to complain. Make sure you complain to the Attorney General, BBB, Consumer Protection Agencies for the state and county, Federal Reserve, Governor and even the President, send a letter what do you have to lose? Something will be done it time with these finacial companies just like is happening now with the Insurance companies. Keep pushing and Quicken will be shut down!!

Tired of this company stealing your deposits, excessive fees/ bait and switch promises of what it will cost to close on a loan in the beginning and how all your costs increase at the end, they steal from so many people, lets stop this. Please follow these steps to get started and don't give up!!! If you like giving your money away that is your choice but just think what you could have bought with it, your choice.

1. Contact the Banking department of your state where they have licence to operate

2. Report them with the better business bureau at www.bbb.org

3. Send a letter to their CEO and avoid the Directors and Bankers. Go above their heads right to Client relations or the CEO and tell them you were lied to

4. Threaten to take them to a small claims court.

5. Contact your state attorney generals office and file a complaint, just google 'attorney general state of michigan' and you can complete the complaint on line.

6. Call your credit card company and dipute the charge.

7. Demand them to listen to the call clip -- ALL CALLS are recorded

8. Contact the Banking department of your state where they have licence to operate:
Detroit Alliance for Fair Banking
76 Lothrop
Detroit, MI 48202
(313) 871-9050

9. I would personally email Tom Walsh from the local Detroit paper.

10. Complain to local tv stations and consumer protection agencies for the state and county.

11. Contact Teresa Drexler at NKA at 612.256.3268. They are in the beginning stages of a class action law suit against Quicken Loans about this very thing, bait and switching loans, not disclosing fees etc. If the APR that they quoted you is more than 1/8th off - they HAVE to get you all new paperwork. They are excited to hear from you.

12. Demand to see the invoice from the appraiser and demand the difference back. And do NOT pay for any QLSS or any other junk fee. Screw it, call the appraiser direct and ask for a copy of the invoice.

13. Tell your friends and family not to do business with them.

14. All of this will not cost you a penny and in most cases you will get your money fully refunded.

15. Predatory Lending HOT Line - 1-800-SOLVE88 for the state of Michigan.

16. File a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission at ftc.gov

Hey "Director of Mortgage Banking",

("However none of you would show up since you are not man or women enough to show your face or post your real names. It's easy to hide behind these posting and spew your venom.")

You talk a big game and spew venom yourself but you didn't use your real name either.

The real thing making you sick is all the slushies and drugs.

If you don't like reading all the negatives about your company (and there are a lot of problems over there) don't visit this site.

Director of Mortgage Banking,

I admire the fact you like to stick up for the company you work for. That makes for a great employee.

Just keep in mind when you ruthlessly strip the equity out of peoples' homes and charge them as much as you possibly can for a loan that you are affecting peoples' lives. All of the Smart Choice loans you have sold to people that don't know any better are now defaulting on the loan and loosing their home. All of the Stated Income loans you have pushed through the process are now defaulting. Who is affected the most?? Not you so who cares!? You are a 20 something year old that tells other people they are losers because they refuse to rip people off people and work 80 hours a week for an unfair pay. And in return you get a drive a slightly better can that you could afford at a legit job. You get to live in a slightly better house because you rip people off.

I wish you could meet all of the people you have ripped off and look them in the eye and tell them you did what was right for them. You charged them as much as you possibly could because it was the best thing for them. You increased their rate at the last minute because it was the right thing to do. You charged them another $3000 in closing fees because that is the right thing to do Then to make it all sound great you tell them about THE LOAN TRACKING SYSTEM. If rates do get better we'll refinance your loan at NO COST Again another lie. There is no such thing as a Loan Tracking System. What should be said: If I get another chance I again will rip you off for as much as I can!

And, for the record, I have a copy of the sales training process that mentions the Loan Tracker System. Try to deny this. I'll post it on YouTube for the world to hear it!

Why don't you do us all a favor and tell us why you think you work for a legit company. There is plenty of room below:

Nuff Said !
Mr. Walsh was your bonus money just cut by a third ?
The Question still has not been answered- How did Quickens avoid laying anyone off when everyone else in the country experienced a meltdown ? How did the state deny everyone cut loose by Quickens unemployment ? What was the deal given to Quickens by Kwami to move Quickens to Detroit ?
These are not accusations - just unanswered questions.
1 down 2 to go.

To all you former loser bankers from Quicken Loans:

Steve- Malachi- Jonathan Smith and all others who constantly post on this site.

I am sick and tired of all of you posting your poison about this company. Why don't you just admit you are a bunch of losers who could not make it here. I have plenty of 20 year olds who are making $100,000+ per year as successful mortgage bankers.

You are probably all working at various speedway stations around the city as coffee barristers making $7.50 per hour. "Do you have your speedway awards card?" Thats what you are doing for a living now.

If you were not such a bunch of lazy "n-----rs" maybe you would still be working here helping people all across the country with their finances.

Get a life and don't expect a overtime check since we are not going to lose.

All of you make me sick to my stomach. I would like to meet the some of you in the Greenmead parking lot and beat the crap out of you. However none of you would show up since you are not man or women enough to show your face or post your real names. It's easy to hide behind these posting and spew your venom.

Grow up and get a life LOSERS!!!!

I have a very good friend who works for Quicken and has worked for Quicken for many years. This person started out on the sales team and moved over to operations shortly after. Here is what I know:

Each loan is reviewed by a number of people in their operations department. Any hint of fraud is (i.e. inflated incomes, inflated appraisal amounts) is tagged for additional review and if the information cannot be verified then the loan is denied. Do some get by? Maybe. But I am assured that there are many steps to help prevent any type of fraud from happening be it from within the company or by the actual client themselves.

I guess there is an actual team of fraud investigators that will go above and beyond to help weed out any kind of bogus activity. The people who work in this part of the company do not gain anything from one loan closing (I guess they receive a regular salary) so they will cut down anything that may be seen as something that would damage the company's name. They probably can't catch everything that might be a little fradulant but they do make a valiant effort.

From what I hear the sales people do have a rough time of it and that is sad because they are probably the driving force of the company. There are many other people that work there that are happy with their jobs and they and their families depend on that income in a state that has been toted as being in a 'one state recession.' It doesn't seem fair to want to take down a company and jeopardize the livelyhood of many who would find it hard to find employment anywhere else in Michigan.

Just my thoughts. Not really siding one way or another.

Though the borrwers do sign the final paperwork, you can't expect them to read every detail. Do you always read every detail?? Ramy on serval occasions would alter tax returns and pay stubs! Sometimes without the customer knowing. When the employees have so much presure on them to produce you can't expect them to look at the director and say NO! You are not altering these documents! That would give the director reason to fire them!

A female employee reported him for sexual harassment. Not surprising, considering that he has slept with the majority of the present and past female employees from this horrible company (dare me, I'll name names).

Apparently he left before they could fire him because the company said it was her word versus his, and she has previously (and successfully) sued a past employer for the same thing. Guess all those years of sucking company d*ck didn't pay off so well. Perhaps he should go back to Art Van and sell furniture and tell stories there about what a great salesperson he was.

You know the ones that intentionally lied about their income. When you fill out the paper work you sign a statement that you have furnished truthful information.

No doubt there are some people that wanted to make their numbers look good for management. But the people that went along with this "coaching" are just as responsible for this if not more so. The "VICTIMS" are the greater cause. They intentionally lied on their incomes to buy something they couldn't afford to begin with. It is their own fault if they cannot keep up on their payments and have gone into default. If you are going to blame one part of the equation be sure to blame the others too.

Truth and Lies,

It's a bit funny to me that you are so quick to defend Ramy. Notice that you are the one who disclosed his real name Not me. If you really knew him all that well and worked with him for many years than you should know that's what he told most of his clients. My name is Ramy Its spelled like Tommy except with an R. Are you sure you know him all that well? Or, maybe you don't and you are sticking your nose where it doesn't belong.

I don't hold anything against Ramy personally. He was trained by other executives at the company and was a product of the Quicken Culture Corrupt!

Why are you so quick to state that people should give their names when you haven't given yours? Again sounds a bit funny to me.

I will not post my name on this website because I am flat out scared that something may happen to me or my family. The executives at Quicken know they have cheated thousands of people and will take desperate measures to keep people silent.

The bottom line is this company needs to be brought to Justice! They have cheated thousands of people!

Hey Justice for all,

You may be right on a lot of things that happen at Quicken and I tend to agree with most of the posts. However, the posts about David Hall and Ramy are ridiculous. Check your facts about Ramy, my friend, before opening your big mouth. For one, you don't even know how to spell his name so I'm guessing your comments are based on speculation and rumor (which is illegal in some industries).

The rumors and CRAZY TALK about specific people don't help the real issues at Quicken. If everyone is so quick to point out people by name, go ahead and give us your name too. Most of you couldn't make it there, unfortunately. Or didn't want to. Either way, shut up til you know the facts.

How do I know? I worked for Ramy for many years and left (on my own accord and on good terms) after 5 years. And I didn't deceive anyone to get ahead.