Liberty Medical Supply Aka Liberty Diabetes Aka Polymedica Corporation Liberty Medical did not contact us when a doctor lowered the amount of a prescription ripoff Port Saint Lucie Florida

Is a load of dung. There is no question that you care for your mother; but you do not understand the system and before you go off half cocked you should look at all the rules and reg's. I know for a fact that if the Doc says 90 per month no matter what; thats all the insurance will pay for; no more. Its sad you had to exposes your lack of understanding here and try to prove a company wrong but Medicare will only pay for whats authorized; no more. If the doctor give you too much per month then he has to get approval to do this; so you see its a highly regulated business and you have admitted there was a extended period of time between when the order was placed and when you found out. If the Doc says no more than 4 a day your beef is with the doc; no one else. To quote a former post "STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE FOR YOUR OWN NEGLECT AND STUPIDITY!"

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! Have you even spoken to Medicare or your mother's doctor regarding the way Medicare works??? OBIOUSLY NOT!!
REGARDLESS of how many time you SAY you mother WANTS to test, Medicare will ONLY pay for what her doctor prescribes!!!!!
If Liberty shipped based only on what the customer wants, but the doctor actually prescribes less, Medicare would only pay for what the doctor prescribes, therefore Liberty would NOT get paid for the difference, and the customer would then become responsible for the difference. We both know the customer would NOT pay the difference, so why should Liberty have to eat the difference!!!
For your information, the doctor does NOT prescribe a certain amount of test strips each month, but rather prescribes the amount of TEST TIMES, which is what Medicare bases it allowance of supplies on.
Her doctor wrote "a certificate of medical necessity" decribing her condition, diagnosis, and recommended test times.
If the customer intends to test more times then prescribed, Liberty will go the extra length to re-contact the doctor to attempt to get the increase prescribed. If the doctor disagrees, then Liberty CAN NOT ship more than prescribed.
If your mother is testing more than her doctor prescribes, then your mother is crazy! This is HER RESPONSIBILITY TO DISCUSS WITH HER DOCTOR, NOT LIBERTYS!! Most customers want to test LESS not more that prescribed!
Liberty Medical Supply is a business, not a d**n charity, like you seem to think!
DO YOU HONESTLY THINK YOU WILL WALK INTO A LOCAL DRUG STORE AND THEY WILL LET YOU LEAVE WITH WHATEVER MEDICINES OR TESTING SUPPLIES YOU "WANT" RATHER THAN WHAT YOUR INSURANCE WILL PAY FOR?? I THINK NOT!!
It is enough that Liberty incur the shipping costs for the customer. Does the local drug store give you your gas money back for having to go to the store for her supplies? NO !!
TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR MOTHERS CARE BY DISCUSSING THIS WITH HER DOCTOR, NOT BLAMING LIBERTY!!
SHE PAYS FOR MEDICARE EACH MONTH, SO I WOULD THINK THIS WOULD WARRANT YOU KNOWING ALL ABOUT MEDICARE'S SERVICES BY ASKING QUESTIONS, RATHER THAN PLACING BLAME!!
Oh, and by the way, Medicare also requests a log from the customer to justify the doctors orders as to why she has to test so many times a day!
STOP BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE FOR YOUR OWN NEGLECT AND STUPIDITY!

Per your last post, you seem confused about what you wrote and what others wrote. I felt the need to clarify your predicament by using your own words, and offering solutions to alleviate the issue and prevent it from happening again.

YOU said:
"ALL BECAUSE LIBERTY MEDICAL'S POLICY IS TO TAKE THE DOCTOR'S WORD OVER THE PATIENT'S.
Their customers do not have final say in the matter! Do not trust them to work for YOU, THE CUSTOMER, because of their policies. I dropped them like a nuclear fuel rod!!!"

TRUTH is:
Liberty or any other medical supplier/provider are legally obligated to abide by the rules and regulations of Medicare (if Medicare is the insurer). This means that if a doctor prescribes a patient to test 2 times a day, then the supplier can send less than that prescription, should the patient request it, but NEVER more than that. To do so would be considered Medicare fraud. You need to get the right prescription from your doctor.

YOU said:
"BUT, the whole point is, *I* hired Liberty Medical, they work for *ME*. They do not work for the physician, they do not work for the insurance company, they do not work for themselves! They hold *MY* interests to heart or they hit the road."

TRUTH is:
They should have your best interest at heart, as long as it is they abide by Medicare guidelines. To do differently risks there Medicare licensing (the bread and butter of a mediacl supplier) Your request for more supplies than prescribed by your doctor is NOT within Medicare's guidelines. You need to get the right prescription from your doctor.

YOU said:
"Liberty Medical definitely has every choice to call me and tell me the doctor changed the amount of the script. I did not give them permission to change the quantity of *MY* order."

TRUTH is:
Sure, Liberty has the choice to call you. But what happens inside your doctor's office is private between you and your doctor. Unless you invited a Liberty rep inside the doctor's visit, how the hell is anybody else supposed to know what the agreed upon prescription is? The easiest solution to this is for you to take that same finger you used to point at everybody else, and actually "lift it" next time and communicate with your doctor enough to pass on the proper information to your supplier.

YOU said (in an amusing attempt to make a comparison with a general contractor, sub-contractor, customer scenario):
"The customer is paying two different companies to coordinate together. The customer instructs each company on what she expects from them. If the plan deviates from the instructions, the customer must be consulted."

TRUTH is:
This is an invalid argument. A GC, SC, or customer can always be replaced. There is no replacement of Medicare. It is the Alpha and Omega of the United States healthcare system. I guess you could pay an arm and leg for private insurance if you have enough to spare. But even they have there rules and regulations. (And I'm willing to bet the doctor's word is stronger than the patients word in their eyes, too.) The way to have solved the whole problem was to get the right prescription from your doctor.

YOU said:
"Something you better understand before you shoot your mouth off again is that diabetics set the amount of testing times they perform per day, not the doctor. The doctor may suggest a certain number, but the patient (especially a brittle diabetic) is going to come up with the actual number that works for them to keep their sugar level."

TRUTH is:
It's true your mother can test all they want with their supplies. Hell, she cold use them all in one day if her heart desires. But if she runs out before her next eligibility date for Medicare coverage? She has to buy her own until, she's eligible again. Using your logic, any crook would be able to request twice as many drugs/supplies than prescribed from their doctor. Hell, they could even use the extras to sell for a profit at the nearest street corner. Yea, that would be smart!

YOU said:
"I begin to wonder Have you two respondents ever actually coordinated the activities of multiple companies? Do you even understand the concept? Are you even qualified to refute to my post? Do not expect me to respond in the future unless you have put more thought into your rebuttals."

TRUTH is:
I first need to clarify, that your respnce was not intended for me as I had not posted a responce yet, at that juncture. They were intended for two of the many other repliers that were trying to explain to you that your beef is with the DOCTOR writing the wrong prescription and not Liberty for following the rules. You are barking up the wrong tree. The simple TRUTh here is that you, Mr. BRENT, are the one that is wrong. So feel free to blush in an embarrassment for writing that responce with an incorrect self-righteous and condescending tone.

YOU wrote:
"You will notice Johnny insists on quoting laws and rules that have no bearing on fixing the actual issue. He does everything in his power to put me on the defensive and avoid the actual issue. "

TRUTH is:
Facts and quoting LAWS are a very effective way of debating a point. The fact that you feel you need to be on the defensive is your decision alone. Most of the time, when you are on the "right" side of an argument, you don't need to feel defensive.

...And last but not least...

YOU said:
"And Johnny, my mother now tests 12 times/day and has all of her supplies paid for by Medicare and everything is 100% legal. Gosh, I guess I do have a clue."

TRUTH is:
You still sound clueless. I've asked you two times already how she was able to get Medicare to pay for her supplies. Did she ask Medicare and say "pretty please." Or did she do what should have been done in the beginning all along, which was get another prescription from her doctor? I'll answer for you, since you don't seem brave enough to answer. It was the latter of the two.

Anyways...your mother now has the amount of supplies she needs. And you know what they say, "all is well, that ends well." I just hope you realize that you were incorrect for blaming Liberty, like EVERYBODY else was trying to tell you. But if you still don't get it after all this, then there's nothing more that I can do for you.

PS: checkmate

First of all, how do you figure that I have anything to do with Liberty. I could care less about them. If they burned down to the ground tomorrow, I'm certain I could sleep later that night. I just happened to come across your post and was amazed at how illogical you sounded.

It's funny how all of a sudden you change your mind about what you're angry about. This is what YOU wrote in your original post regarding how much supplies to send (as if Medicare doesn't have certain regulations that they need to follow):

"ALL BECAUSE LIBERTY MEDICAL'S POLICY IS TO TAKE THE DOCTOR'S WORD OVER THE PATI'ENT'S. Their customers do not have final say in the matter! Do not trust them to work for YOU, THE CUSTOMER, because of their policies. I dropped them like a nuclear fuel rod!"

Based on your logic of how it works, then any crook would be able to have Medicare cover twice as much as their doctor prescribes. Hey, they could even use the extra supplies for sale on the nearest street corner for a profit. All at the TAXPAYERS expense. Yeah, that sounds smart.

In your latest post, I also found it amusing that you resorted desperate accusations of me being a manager at Liberty (which is not true). I also found it more amusing that you try to vilify me for using "FACTS" and quoting actual LAWS and Rules and Regulations to back up my argument to "put [you] on the defensive."

I can see that you are angry that Liberty didn't notify you that the doctor's prescription was "inaccurate," but how the hell is anybody supposed to know it's inaccurate, since I'm sure her doctor's visits are private and between her and her doctor. You seem to be one of those people that expect everybody to do the work for you, won't lift a finger to make the process work smoothly, and then point the finger at somebody else when things go wrong.

All I'm saying is, you should be pointing the finger at the doctor, your mother, and yourself for not communicating with each other well enough to pass along the proper information to your supplier. Take responsibility for some of this; you are obviously wrong.

PS: you never answered my last question. did you get Medicare to cover your mother's full supply by saying "pretty please" or did you have to get an another DOCTOR'S PRESCRIPTION?

Just admit you're wrong, guy because you know you are.

LIBERTY DOES NOT LISTEN TO THE CUSTOMER!

Johnny, a self proclaimed manager of their customer service department, is a prime example of this. He wants to compete with the customer instead of making the attempt to resolve the customer's issue. This is a good reason to switch to another company NOW!

You will notice Johnny insists on quoting laws and rules that have no bearing on fixing the actual issue. He does everything in his power to put me on the defensive and avoid the actual issue.

The original issue was that Liberty did not notify me when the doctor wrote the wrong prescription of 4/day even though Liberty knew I expected 6/day.

The second issue was that Liberty failed to notify me that they were not sending my order after I called in an automated reorder, even though they had a valid prescription.

Yea, that's what I thought. I'm sure you ended up getting a prescription from another doctor that would sign off for 12 times a day. At that point Medicare, would agree to cover it, since it was approved by a doctor.

The thing is, Medicare will cover the supplies based on how often a patient tests in a given period, UNLESS it is above and beyond what is prescribed by a DOCTOR. For a medical supplier to ship out more and charge Medicare for it would be considered MEDICARE FRAUD.

So assuming that you ended up getting another, more agreeable, prescription from another doctor (because I'm certain that's what happened if Medicare is paying for it), how is it that it's Liberty's fault for choosing not to practice Medicare fraud and send the amount of supplies prescribed by your doctor?

PS: I'm glad you're happy with CVS, but like Liberty, they're not going to send you supplies above what your doctor has prescribed.

PPS: I've made my point. debate over. i win

Brent,

I'm not saying that the patient soesn't decide how often they will test on any given day. That decision is theirs to make behind closed doors. But if Medicare allows a certain amount be sent (doctor prescription)for a certain amount of time (90 day supply in Liberty's case) and the patient runs out before their 90 day eligiblity date, then the patient will probably have to buy supplies on their own. But maybe if you say "pretty please" you can persuade Medicare to cough up more money against the doctor's prescription.

Listen, I'm glad that your mother is getting enough supplies that she needs. To me, it sounded like her first doctor wasn't listening to her needs. And I don't know Medicare's exact situation with Liberty is, but I do have a little experience in the field from working at a similar type of company before. So maybe Liberty works differently.

But I'm curious...since your mom is able to get Medicare to pay for her supplies for 12 times a day, did you get them to pay for it by saying "pretty please," or did you end up having to get a doctor's prescription from another doctor?

I was looking for a doctor myself and stumbled upon this page by random chance. I have to say, off the record, Medicare does make the company work (and i'm not kidding) EXTRA, maybe 5 times more hard to make sure the the people on the phones say and do what needs to be done the medicare way. And I was reading someones' post saying about getting a doctor approval vs. what the pt. actually tests vs. Medicare laws dealing with how the process has to go.

Yes, it could be quite frustrating for the patient sometimes, especially with increases. If they don't contact their doctor or Liberty and they let as much as one week go by without testing, they have no choice but to buy their own test strips sometimes.

We do try to get the patient to do their own work at this time, having them call their own doctor and having the doctor call Liberty. When it comes down to the original ad that i saw, that liberty oversent the patient too many test strips or whatnot, well thats either an automated call going based on patients old testing times or the patient did not say no when asked how many test strips they actually need, as opposed to what they were getting, or it could be a human error.

But on the record, when these problems get handled the first time, usually they do not need adjusting as long as the patients' do not keep changing their account quantities and type of supplies ordered which is true for the most part.

My main point however, is that if Medicare weren't the strict governers of how supplies get dispersed, Liberty wouldn't have to go through so many hours of training their people about Medicare, and theoretically, everyone would get their supplies whenever they want. Somehow i have a feeling that Medicares' rules are necessary for their own sake for much better reasons than worse reasons.

Sometimes going to a pharmacy may help some people out, avoiding the occassional problem such as the types of supplies. Then again, if your doctor order isn't consistent to your actual testing times, your pharmacy will also have the same problems with giving you more than what medicare was aware of.

Then again, Liberty will save you time, they are very flexable with shipping to temporary locations, and they are very helpful when technical problems arise, such as your meter breaking or if you lose your strips. These are the upsides.

Anyway, glad if someone got any help from this posting, else.. it was worth a try explaining, I caught it by chance.

-D, CSR at Liberty.

Something you better understand before you shoot your mouth off again is that diabetics set the amount of testing times they perform per day, not the doctor. The doctor may suggest a certain number, but the patient (especially a brittle diabetic) is going to come up with the actual number that works for them to keep their sugar level.

In our case, the doctor can listen or he can get a new patient. It IS that simple. The med supplier can fill the doctor's *correct* prescription or they can find someone else to sell to. It IS that simple.

And Johnny, my mother now tests 12 times/day and has all of her supplies paid for by Medicare and everything is 100% legal. Gosh, I guess I do have a clue.

Our local CVS now handles my mother's needs. The process there was simple and there were no forms to sign. It was just like filling a prescription. The biggest difference is we are now on a monthly timetable, which we can live with.

I would highly recommend CVS to anyone who needs diabetic testing supplies.

Diane-
It is sad to see companies "happy" with 85% customer sat. I have seen an entire division fired because they failed to achieve 97%+ very satisfied customer sat rating. I do hope your company does better.

I can see the providers do have a lot of hurdles to leap to accomplish the business they set out to perform. I don't care about their problems. I care about my mother receiving her supplies in a timely and efficient manner. Liberty is obviously not capable of performing this function adequately.

Liberty is a BAD BUSINESS.

Brent, you sound pretty clueless on how the process works. I understand that you have your mother's best interest on hand, and you would like your medical supplier to have the same feelings for her and her situation. However, the fact is that your doctor is the one that changed the prescription.

I understand that you feel that Liberty works for you, which they should. But you made a comment that the patient should have the final say as to how much supplies they should get. What? Do you think that medical suppliers work like your local corner drug dealer?

The fact of the matter is that as a medical provider, i'm sure they are legally obligated to adhere to Medicare guidelines which allow a 90 day supply be sent, based on DOCTOR PRESCRIPTION. To send any more than that would be considered MEDICARE FRAUD. In which case the medical supplier stands the risk of losing their supplier license with Medicare. And as much as your mother's interest is important to you, as it should be, I'm sure Liberty isn't willing to risk losing their license (their bread and butter) just because you think you are above Medicare guidelines.

And, think about it. wouldn't it be in Liberty's interest to sell MORE supplies like you requested, since that would mean more money for them? But there are rules and regs to every government beurocracy. I'm sorry to say it, buddy, but i think you're barking up the wrong tree.

I was just reading through the comments posted regarding Liberty, and I wanted to take a moment to add a little information from a different perspective.

I am a Reimbursement Director for a similar type of company as Liberty. Our oganization was only half the size of Liberty and we averaged 15 thousand orders every day. I can only begin to imagine what the processes are like at a company the size of Liberty.

I think my suggestion in a situation like yours would be to find a smaller company that has the ability to have greater patient focus. As Medicare and the CMS put greater focus on the Diabetes industry it becomes more and more difficult to make sure that all customers are happy, as a matter of fact the majority of DME companies are happy if they hit 85-90% customer satisfaction.

What you need to make sure is that the company is making monthly contact with the person responsible for ordering supplies and that they're taking the time to review the entire order. By CMS mandate, the company can not initiate an order, this needs to be approved each time by the patient either via phone or electronic contact.

Please believe me when I say that it is incredibly frustrating on the side of the provider when you have an order for one thing and then a physician states something else. Medicare states (and backs it up with financial penalties)that the provider must provide only what the physician has ordered.If we provide additional, the company will either write off the additional supplies up front or we take off on the back end after an audit. Either way they face being stuck for the additional cost. The other issue is the provider prompting for a higher number, once again something that can be reported to Medicare/CMS resulting in additional audits and fines.

I hope this helps a little, and please understand I am not advocating one company over any other. It's just important, just like you have with the physician situation, to find the right fit and always be aware of what you're receiving and what's being billed to your insurances.

Good Luck!

What a bunch of IDIOTS.

So Liberty Medical forces my mom fill out at least five release forms and send them in. The prescription now must be rewritten, since they are a different company. Two weeks later, after numerous communications between Liberty, Doctor, and myself, I have to hand deliver a request to the doctor authorizing the change of the prescription to Liberty Medical. Mom has to purchase strips locally in the interim. Finally the 3-month prescription for eight strips/day is filled.

Three months later mom orders a refill over the Liberty Medical automated service. The prescription does not come. NOBODY CALLS. Mom has to purchase strips locally. I call Liberty Medical and find out their computer is confused. It seems they don't know whether to send a prescription for four strips/day or one for six/day or one for eight/day. There is a red flag on the account and they will now need a new prescription from the doctor.

How else can I put this?

IDIOTSIDIOTSIDIOTSIDIOTSIDIOTSIDIOTSIDIOTSIDIOTS

National Diabetics guarantees they will notify me, their customer, whenever a prescription does not match my order with them. They contact me before the order is finalized. This way I can fix whatever problem BEFORE it becomes a real problem.

Too bad Liberty Medical's policy does not allow them to do this; they did not notify me when they deviated from my planned expectations of their service, and so they lost my business. Luckily, I found this out before it cost me money. How many of you are not that lucky? Liberty Medical is a RipOff. 'Nuff said.

The doctor in question is now an ex-doctor (to us). He is A-L-S-O a RipOff (There! I spelled it out for you). He used to be a good doctor when he first started practicing, but now he is too busy to properly provide premium service to my mother.

Wow, we have the power to choose our own doctors! We can choose doctors who work in our best interests instead of their own or the insurance company's. 'Nuff said.

The painting incident actually happened in Spokane, WA, although with different colors. I was a painter for the contractor involved. The case ended up in court and the paint supplier was found responsible for their actions. My boss was cussin' every few weeks because a customer was buying their own paint. It definitely happens and this is a perfectly valid comparison.

The customer is paying two different companies to coordinate together. The customer instructs each company on what she expects from them. If the plan deviates from the instructions, the customer must be consulted.

Ever hear of a General Contractor? A GC is basically the customer of many companies and this is what they do: They plan, coordinate and make decisions on a job site so a bunch of different companies can work together to correctly build something in a timely and cost effective manner.

Do you honestly believe the GC is going to keep using a company that does not follow their instructions? Would you not agree said company is liable if they deviate from the GC's plan without first consulting them? (OH, we built the garage on the *other* side of the house because according to code the electrician said he's supposed to put the meter on the side of the house, not the side of the garage, DUH, didn't think you'd care) 'Nuff said.

Hmmm, Government bureaucracy really has nothing to do with my problem at this point; I am surprised you mention it.

I begin to wonder Have you two respondents ever actually coordinated the activities of multiple companies? Do you even understand the concept? Are you even qualified to refute to my post? Do not expect me to respond in the future unless you have put more thought into your rebuttals.

Meidcare only pays for the number the doctor orders, not the number the patient wants/needs. If the patient and doctor are working properly together, these two numbers will be the same. Liberty expects to be fully paid by Meidcare. They will only send the number that Medicare will pay for-- the number the doctor ordered. The problem is with the doctor. I would think that he or she could resolve this situation easily by writing another script for the additional strips, then you could obtain them from Liberty or a local pharmacy. Explaining the situation to Medicare may take some doing, but that is inevitable with any buerocracy. The doctor's staff should be willing to help. If not, she really needs another doctor.

The comparison with the house is not valid. If you hire a contractor to paint your house, you will not deal with a paint supply store at all. You'd tell the contractor "Paint it white" and he'd go to a supplier and buy white paint. If the house comes out the wrong color, it's the contractor's fault.

But in this situation, imagine the government is paying a contractor to paint your house. The government and the contractor agree that the neighborhood would look better if your house were pink. Guess what-- you're going to be living in a pink house until you can afford to paint it white. A life-threatening medical condition like diabetes should not be treated this way, but as you realize, that is how the system works.

Robert, you are only partially correct in that I do have AN issue with the doctor (I already inferred that, re-read the post).

BUT, the whole point is, *I* hired Liberty Medical, they work for *ME*. They do not work for the physician, they do not work for the insurance company, they do not work for themselves! They hold *MY* interests to heart or they hit the road.

Liberty Medical definitely has every choice to call me and tell me the doctor changed the amount of the script. I did not give them permission to change the quantity of *MY* order.

Example: You order 20 gallons of *white* paint from a paint supply company to paint the exterior of your house. You tell them a contractor will *pick up* the paint. The contractor gets there and tells them he wants pink instead of white. They give him pink. You get home and your house is pink. Who is at fault???

No matter how much fault is attributed to the contractor, *YOU* ordered *white* paint, not pink. YOU made the contract with the paint supply company, not the contractor. Only YOU had the power to change the color of that paint. The paint supply company is at fault, your house would not be pink if they had followed your instructions.

Liberty Medical Supply has no choice but to follow the directions of the doctor. There are liability issues involved.

The doctor or his office should have informed you of the reduction in needed supplies so that he could explain the reason.

Seems your gripe is with the doctor, not Liberty Medical Supply.