Auto Top Factory LLC, Hutch Dekirmendjian, Hratch Dekirmendjian, Liza Dekirmendjian Defective Convertible Top and 2 Months of Lies and Broken Promises Van Nuys California

I'm not really interested in going back and forth with this merchant on their rebuttals. They have a solid history of being willing to LIE without conscience, so the idea of anyone believing what Liza's rebuttals say it ludicrous to begin with.

Firstly, the reason I have not returned the item is that I am 100% sure that if I spend the money to buy another top, and invest the time in removal and reinstall, that once i ship it back to Hutch & Liza I WILL NEVER SEE MY REFUND. I am absolutely sure of this, based upon my experience with them to date. Nothing Hutch has ever said to me was true, so how does one expect me to reasonably believe that all of a sudden now they will act in good faith?

I have found a local shop that will resew the straps and correct the defects for me to get my top operational. And since it's the hot (and rainy) season here I am driving my other cars anyway. I've wasted more than enough time with Hutch & Liza's ongoing parade of lies and empty promises.

Secondly, the reason that "Ebay has still taken our side on this matter" is that the seller made lots of wonderful promises and kept me thinking the issue was going to be resolved, right up until the time my eBay Buyer Protection period expired. If you read my original report, you will see the exact time-line of how this occured. I did speak to eBay and because the time had expired, there was nothing they could do. They did however recommend that I file a report with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (ic3.gov), which I did.

As I mentioned before, I have ever aspect of this entire transaction documented, so let me share just one email that demonstrates Liza's willingness to lie in her "rebuttals"...

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Here, Liza shows her customer service prowess by letting me know that they will gladly send me out a replacement top:

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-------- Original Message --------

Thank you for your photos.

Here you go. You can see in the first two photos an example of the poor quality stitching (on the one side that's still attached). The next two photos show the other side which has already come off. If you look closely at the bar you will see gunk on it which is a result of the gummy backing material from your velcro straps (and presumably heat from the Florida sun). I'm not sure it's such a good idea to have a gummy backing on a part that is supposed to slide freely up and down the bar.

Grant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi. Can you send me photos?

On Apr 21, 2014, at 6:27 AM, "Grant B." wrote:

Thanks.   I never heard back from you on my last email regarding the velcro straps coming off the top.  I had replied to your email letting you know that the straps were attached to the frame exactly in the same place as my original ones (on the top I removed), and that they were attached loosely to allow movement.

 

G

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Here Liza promises to credit me a portion of the purchase price for my trouble - of course that also NEVER HAPPENED:

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-------- Original Message --------

Hi Grant.

 We had made about twenty five of the same top in this particular batch with the straps sewn exactly the same way.  Since none of the other customers complained, we came to the conclusion that the straps must have been installed on the wrong bar.  This is a helper strap for the initial installation to keep the top in place and help it stretch out.  If installed on the wrong bar, it can easily come apart from the top. 

 We offered for the customer to take his time returning the item, and recommended that he purchase it from another seller, since he is not happy with our product.  We even offered that he should install the new top from another seller and then return ours.  Of course, we would then have no use for it, since it is used and we cannot sell it to anyone else.  We still offered to give him a full refund.

 We refuse to work with a customer who curses, threatens, and screams unreasonably.  This is the right of every seller, and is often posted on signs in stores.  We reserve the right to refuse his business. 

 We are a small business and it is clear that someone is trying to hurt us.

 To this day, Ebay has still taken our side on this matter, and we have not received our item back, which can only mean that it's really not as bad as he says it is.  So why didn't he return it for a refund?  And why still try to fight and hurt others?  If our products are really that bad, why does he still want another one?  And why isn't anyone else complaining??? 

I found it interesting to read Liza's "rebuttal", especially since I have mounds of email and photographic documentation of the communication back and forth between us.

So, let's clarify a couple of points:

1. The defective top was purely due to manufacturer error. The velcro straps were sewn onto the top BACKWARDS, meaning that the rubberized side of the cloth material was sewn to face inwards, up against the metal frame bar to which it is attached.  Installation has nothing to do with it. I installed it exactly as the old one came off. the problem was that once I started using the top, the rubberized side of the straps would (obviously) not slide smoothly along the metal frame bar, and this is what caused the straps to tear away from the top.

I provided photographic evidence of this to Liza by email and this is what prompted them to apologize for the error and offer a repair or replacement. I will be glad to provide copies of said emails and photographs to anyone who doubts the veracity of my statements.

2. I did not demand something out of the ordinary. I worked with them for almost a month (primarily due to their extreme communication delays and broken promises of ship dates for the replacement velcro straps) and actually sewed new straps onto the top myself in an attempt to fix the problem. By the end of it, with so much time invested and my top still not fully operational, I opted to accept their offer of a replacement.

3. It is true that at first Liza told me I would have to ship the top back before getting a replacement. Now, let's be clear, this is NOT a sweater from a department store that one can simply take off. The installation of one of these tops takes close to 8 hours (or about $1200-$1600 if you have a shop do it) plus the car is outdoors. So, my contention was how would I reasonably be able to remove the defective top, send it back, and wait for who-knows-how-long before I receive the replacement. Based on my experience with them that could have taken a month, all the while I would have my Porsche sitting out in the driveway without a roof. After Liza being unreasonable on this point I became upset - and I think reasonably so. That's when Hutch got on the phone and made his promises.

The bottom line here is not so much the replacement of the top, which I would have had to deal with if Hutch had said "no, I'm terribly sorry but that's our policy and we are not able to send out a replacement without receiving the original back", HOWEVER he did not say that. He gave me his speech about how customer service is his top priority and made promises which, i now know, he had no intention of keeping, and strung me out with those continuing lies for over two months.

I am a small business owner and have no intentions of slamming small businesses, where they are honest and forthright, however this company has no qualms whatsoever about lying to one's face, over and over and over. THAT is why I filed this report.

First off, this is the first negative report ever received for our company.

The buyer purchased one of our convertible tops on ebay (worth about $300) and with some improper installation, damaged the velcro straps.  This happens when it is installed on the wrong bar and it gets pulled too much.  Makes sense, right?  So when the buyer called to complain about the problem, and tried to blame it on us,  I kindly offered him a replacement for the item when we received the original item back.  This is common practice.  If you buy something from a department store or any electronics that have an issue, would they replace it without receiving the original one back? NO, THEY WOULDN'T.  To top it off, he wants an item that we sell for about $460 (for free as well).  He refused to send the item back and demanded we replace it with a more expensive item at no charge before he sent it back.  REALLY????  He then began to curse and threaten to send people he knows to our place to "straighten things out" (whatever that means).  When I was being yelled at and cursed at with "A" words, and "F" words (such a gentleman)  I handed the phone to Hutch, who had no idea what was going on and promised the buyer that things would get replaced and set right for him.  Hutch is the head of manufacturing and later examined the photos of his complaint, and concluded that this was not our fault.  For such a minor problem caused by the consumer, we cannot in good faith replace the item without at least receiving the original one back.  We were still kind enough to offer him a full refund if he returned the used and damaged item.  He filed a complaint with ebay and ebay sided in our favor.  We have yet to receive our item back, and honestly fear for our safety with his threats.  He has sent people to our location who loitered in our parking lot and took photos of our building, parking lot, and our cars!  If any type of vandalism or damage should happen to our place of business or personal property, this report is proof of his threats.  If he lived in California, I would file a restraining order.  Fortunately, he's in Florida, but it hasn't seemed to stop him.  He has the audacity to actually still want a replacement top sent out.  We refuse to work with him and suggested that he get a replacement top from one of our competitors and take two more weeks sending back the return, and still offered him a refund.  We do not have the return yet. We have hundreds of happy and satisfied customers who thank us everyday.  This is by far the worst behaved consumer we have ever dealt with who obviously has nothing better to do with his time than to harass small businesses.

On June 20th, 2014 I was able to reach Hutch (by calling from a google voice phone number that is in a different area code from mine). This time I made sure he could hear me okay before I told him who i was, so he couldn't use his old "I can't hear you" trick.  

This time, he pretended to be at a total loss as to what I was calling about. When i told him that I still had not received my top, he pretended to get upset and said that Lisa (his wife who he pretends is just an employee) is "this close" to being fired. He told me that he'd had similar complaints from other customers and that she was "on thin ice".  But, don't worry, he would take care of this personally!

He then proceeded to tell me the following:

1. That he had lots of tops "on the shelf" and was pretty sure that mine had been shipped that day, but that he would go check and see, and if mine had not shipped then he would personally ship it immediately.

2. That he was going to throw in a headliner and other goodies to prove to me that customer service is his #1 prioirty.

3. That, to further demonstrate his pure character, he was going to refund my original purchase price to my PayPal account "within the hour" and once I'd received the new top and installed it that I should then pay him whatever I felt was fair. Wow, what a guy!

4. That he would call me back within the hour with a tracking number for my package.

I should have know, of course, that he was just blowing smoke up my a** as usual, but I can't conceive of someone being that brazen as to just lie through their teeth and I naively hoped that maybe this time he was telling the truth.

As a precaution, i posted this note on eBay so that I had a written record of it:

"Hutch, It was good speaking to you on the telephone tonight (Wednesday 6/18/14 7:49 PM EST) and I'm very glad we we were able to work things out to both our satisfaction. I'm posting this follow-up on eBay just so that we both have a written record of the conversation. As discussed, we agreed to the following: 1. You will be refunding $319 to my paypal account within the hour. 2. You will see if my replacement top (glass window, defroster cable & headliner) shipped today and, if so, you will email me the tracking number. 3. If it did not ship today, you will call or email me right away and let me know and I will have a friend or family member in LA stop by your shop tomorrow to pick it up on my behalf. 4. Once I have installed the replacement top I will then pay you cost of my original purchase. If there's anything I missed please let me know. "

After three hours and no call back I tried him again. No answer, over and over, just as before.

That night, I get the following message on eBay from him:

"I don't think my prior message went through... I can understand that you would want to return the plastic window top and get a glass window at the same cost. Per our policy, we would gladly stitch the Velcro strap that came apart during installation. After consulting with my partner, we have decided that we simply cannot afford to send out additional merchandise, especially a higher cost item. We will not have a replacement for at least two weeks. Even then, we would prefer if you purchased a replacement item from another seller. I hope you understand our position. We will send you a full refund once our item is returned. Once installed, we cannot even sell the item you are returning, so we are at a complete loss. For our low price point, we simply cannot afford it. You may take two weeks to send it back as we understand that you want to have another top on your car. I hope you understand. Hutch."

Notice that in a matter of hours he suddenly went from having lots on the shelf to suddenly not having a replacement available for two week and, interestingly, his "employee" Lisa has suddenly become his "partner".

The next day, using the same tricky phone shenanigans, I was able to reach Hutch one last time. When I told him who it was he said in a friendly tone, as if we were best friends, "Hi, how are you doing?"  I said to him simply: "You lied to me again."  He just hung up the phone and that was it.  I have never been able to reach anyone at their office again since.

This company's handle on eBay is "autotopfactoryllc".