Bank Of America Reported to checking system after my ATM/checking account was charged due to fraud Los Angeles California

Chris, I didn't realize this man had the smartest ATM thief in the world! Here's his M.O.

1. He watches hundreds or thousands of people until he finds someone who leaves their ATM card in their car.

2. He follows them to the ATM machine where he spies on them and gets their PIN number

3. He follows them home and breaks into their car and steals the ATM card.

4. He makes phony deposits risking leaving fingerprints on the envelopes/checks inside along with his pictures on the cameras

5. However, for reasons unknown, he does this only twice, even though he's got the card for a minimum of 4 or 5 days

6. In ADDITION to going to the ATM and making withdrawls, he also goes to businesses and makes purchases. why wouldn't he just go make purchases? That's what ATM thieves do BTW, they don't go to ATM' that have limits on amounts daily. They go to the mall, max out the card, dump it and then sell the merchandise for pennies on the dollar. They DO NOT GO THROUGH ALL THIS TROUBLE. Theives want to get in and get out fast. This is too involved and at too many points he risks alerting people.

You have got yourself one heck of a smart guy there! Why be like all the other ATM card theives and use a device or fake ATM to grab the card or force you at gunpoint to make the transactions? No this way is much easier.

It's blatantly obvious this is a load of BS. If one person can tell me a scenario that makes sense besides it's him defrauding the bank or someone he knows that knows his PIN number, please tell me.

The phony deposits a great scam? I don't think so. more like inexperienced. And the whole thing seems like wayyy too much trouble to go to in order to try & defraud a bank. It's much more probable that he just really was that stupid!

I don't really know what scenario applies to my case.
Y
I never wrote about other cards (Drivers license, costco card, kinko's card, etc.)other than the ones with $$$$$ value

Yes, I carry my drivers license everywhere, everytime because its not only for driving, but also for identifying my slef in places like my gym, or places where I use my $$$$ cards.

I don't really know what scenario applies to my case.
Y
I never wrote about other cards (Drivers license, costco card, kinko's card, etc.)other than the ones with $$$$$ value

Yes, I carry my drivers license everywhere, everytime because its not only for driving, but also for identifying my slef in places like my gym, or places where I use my $$$$ cards.

I don't really know what scenario applies to my case.
Y
I never wrote about other cards (Drivers license, costco card, kinko's card, etc.)other than the ones with $$$$$ value

Yes, I carry my drivers license everywhere, everytime because its not only for driving, but also for identifying my slef in places like my gym, or places where I use my $$$$ cards.

I don't really know what scenario applies to my case.
Y
I never wrote about other cards (Drivers license, costco card, kinko's card, etc.)other than the ones with $$$$$ value

Yes, I carry my drivers license everywhere, everytime because its not only for driving, but also for identifying my slef in places like my gym, or places where I use my $$$$ cards.

What I said was that based on your story, those are the two options. Of course there are other ways for thieves to get PIN numbers, I didn't say there wasn't. You mention two of the most popular, but let me tell you why they don't fit your situation:

"Someone who watched me input my pin number could have done it"...Yes, they could have watched you. However, they would then have to not only follow you home, but they would also have to know your card was in your car. This scenario doesn't fit your situation

"there are complex devices that give you a pin number as soon as you place your card in an atm"..Yep, sure is. The only problem is the way this scam works is they attach the device to the ATM, and it keeps your card and records the PIN number, so they then have the card AND your PIN number. This didn't happen to you.

Another thing they do is place some glue on the slot and stand behind you and watch you enter your PIN #. Then when your card is stuck in the machine, and you leave, they use glue remover and take the card and knwo your PIN.

YOUR SITUATION DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. PERIOD. The only two scenarios that fit your story are what I mentioned. Also, answer this. you said:

"I don't carry a wallet to the gym, only my gym plastic sleeve, with my ATM card in it sometimes. I no longer carry a wallet, only a small cardholders for a few cards and bills."

Do you realize it is illegal to drive your car without your license? So if you have to carry your wallet, why would you leave your ATM card in the car and everything else you need to go out in the house?

As for you Chris, you said:

"As far as the phony deposits, if it was a relatively inexperienced thief, maybe they thought they could get more money out that way or something."

**Explain to me how an inexperienced thief is so smart as to pull of this great scam

"The whole scenario seems too convoluted and roundabout to be Victor himself just trying to defraud the bank."

**Actually it doesn't sound convoluted to me at all. In fact, it seems pretty clear that the only two options that could've happened were the ones I describe.

Just because it doen't make a lot of sense doesn't mean it's not possible nor that he is defrauding the bank. Granted, I wouldn't have done what he did...nor would it have taken me that long to notice it as I check my account online every day or two. And I think I would've been more proactive & insistent about the fraud reporting and all.

As far as the phony deposits...if it was a relatively inexperienced thief, maybe they thought they could get more money out that way or something. They probably would try lots of different things as long as they could. The whole scenario seems too convoluted and roundabout to be Victor himself just trying to defraud the bank.

Mike,
I live in LA where crime is considerably high and fraud tricks vary. People that work for banks, including BofA, mentioned that there are many other ways to get your pin number. Someone who watched me input my pin number could have done it, there are complex devices that give you a pin number as soon as you place your card in an atm, and police did tell me there are other ways. They just didn't say what other ways.


I don't carry a wallet to the gym, only my gym plastic sleeve, with my ATM card in it sometimes. I no longer carry a wallet, only a small cardholders for a few cards and bills. I have to switch cards often, depending on the ocassion. I will continue to do this for practical reasons. The only thing I'm changing is not leaving cards in my car (private property) any longer.

Mike,
I live in LA where crime is considerably high and fraud tricks vary. People that work for banks, including BofA, mentioned that there are many other ways to get your pin number. Someone who watched me input my pin number could have done it, there are complex devices that give you a pin number as soon as you place your card in an atm, and police did tell me there are other ways. They just didn't say what other ways.


I don't carry a wallet to the gym, only my gym plastic sleeve, with my ATM card in it sometimes. I no longer carry a wallet, only a small cardholders for a few cards and bills. I have to switch cards often, depending on the ocassion. I will continue to do this for practical reasons. The only thing I'm changing is not leaving cards in my car (private property) any longer.

You said:

"Your way of seeing things is very intersting and police-minded."

**No, they aren't Police minded, I am asking common sense questions.

"You make sense, but I think these scenarios you have exposed are not the only ones that exist."

**There are two scenerios that make sense and I've posed them both

1. You did this to scam the bank
2. Someone you know who has your PIN number did it.

If there is another scenerio where a person steals your ATM card and knows your PIN I'd be happy to hear it, since PIN numbers are NOT embedded on the magnetic strip.

"What I've been trying to say is that my card had no priority arround the time it was stolen because I was about to deposit to make my monthly payments. And my ATM card is the only one I leave in my car for when going to the gym or to buy coffee"

**Ok, and here's what I've been saying. If you are going to the gym or to buy coffe you also need your wallet for ID and cash right? So why don't you leave the ATM card in your WALLET WITH THE REST OF YOUR IMPORTANT THINGS YOU DON'T WANT STOLEN (like your other credit cards). What is the point of leaving it in the car? Do you leave the house without your wallet when you go for coffee? Of course not, so WHY LEAVE YOUR CARD IN THE CAR?

Thanks for all of your responses.
Your way of seeing things is very intersting and police-minded. You make sense, but I think these scenarios you have exposed are not the only ones that exist.

I'll just leave it to the police and bank.
What I've been trying to say is that my card had no priority arround the time it was stolen because I was about to deposit to make my monthly payments. And my ATM card is the only one I leave in my car for when going to the gym or to buy coffee

I do not work for a bank. I said:

"and I know an employee of another bank who sees this all the time". What he sees is people who try to get over on a bank and then claim it was someone else, or stolen, etc. Usually they get a friend to get the money so that the friend is the one on video.

I don't understand this sentence:

"Regardless where I left my ATM card, I did it because it was a time of the month to deposit for payments, and not for charging it."

What does that mean? Charging what? It's an ATM card. I don't understand why you felt it was ok to leave your ATM card anywhere. Would you leave all your money in your car? How about your credit cards? You yourself have said that you DON'T leave your credit cards in the car, so why the difference?

What does making deposits have to do with anything? If your ATM card is in your wallet, you need your wallet to drive your car, so your ATM card would be with you anyway. THERE IS NO POINT TO LEAVING YOUR ATM CARD IN THE CAR, and this is where I think the cops and the bank have an issue, besides the whole knowing the PIN number thing

Also, your car was broken into Wednesday. You didn't file a police report until Sunday night, you claim you "went away for the weekend", but you didn't notice it Thursday or Friday when you went to work? When you noticed the small things missing, you didn't immediately search for your card, since you knew you leave it in the car? You weren't going to file a police report for someone breaking into your car and stealing your stuff and breaking your window?

Here's what I think. You needed money to go away, or perhaps got some of those fake checks in the mail for "lottery" or something. So you figured you could deposit them, take the cash and then claim someone else did it and get your money back. The problem with that is simple. Thieves do not want to take the time to make deposits into an account. They steal a card, empty it and move on until the card is stopped. They don't put envelopes with checks into someone elses account.

Oh, and lastly, thieves know ATM's have cameras, and that banks have daily limits on withdrawls. That's why if a theif steals your debit card from your purse or your car, or wherever, they DO NOT go to an ATM, they immediately head to a mall and use it as a credit card to purchase merchandise. Your story is blatantly a tall tall as so much of it makes no sense at all. I hope for your sake your friend they have on camera don't get caught since you filed a police report it's a felony.

I just think you can lose a card in many different ways. Someone who works in the bank like you, I'm sure has heard of the many ways on how people loose their cards.

And yes, I agree that it was a stupid the way I lost my card. I believe it is stupid when you lose your card, no matter how you lose it.

Regardless where I left my ATM card, I did it because it was a time of the month to deposit for payments, and not for charging it.

About the Pin#, I just don't know. I will just wait for the bank and police investigation to finish. I'm just hoping it's not anybody I know.

Couple things..

1. The fact that the video shows someone that doesn't look like you means nothing. IN fact, a smart person trying to outsmart the bank would have a friend go to the ATM specifically so it DIDN'T look like you

2. You leave your ATM card in your car. I didn't say it was illegal, but don't you think it's pretty stupid?

3. You go on vacation and think ahead enough to bring credit cards for emergencies but leave your ATM card at home? Why?

As far as the rest of your story, if you've never given your PIN number to anyone, than it's impossible to have this happen. Period. PIN numbers are not embedded on the magnetic strip. They would've had to have seen you enter the number and then magically know you left your card in the car. OR, it's someone you know and they ripped you off. Anything else makes no sense, and I know an employee of another bank who sees this all the time.

Mike I had already tried explaining with what was written for you and copy/pasted once again. I tried explaining why many times I do not carry my ATM card. Something that will hopefully help your understanding is that there are credit cards, that also serve for emergency cases. Also, there is nothing ilegal about, or stated in my contract that I cannot have my card in my car. The only thing that puzzles me is my pin number, thats why I have the police investigating


"As for my card, every end/begining of month is the time when I normally do not use my card for charges and withdraws because it's usually paying-bills time. I often carry it with me to the gym and sometimes place it in a plastic card holder with my gym card that is in my car most of the time, and that I use for coffee, smoothies of other small things.

Two days after, when (I believe) my card was stolen, I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments. When viewing all the unknown transactions through online banking ( Sunday evening) is the idea that my atm card was in my car really hit me, and perhaps that it was missing. Unfortunately this was the case, and it did not take me to long to realize it.

Mike I had already tried explaining with what was written for you and copy/pasted once again. I tried explaining why many times I do not carry my ATM card. Something that will hopefully help your understanding is that there are credit cards, that also serve for emergency cases. Also, there is nothing ilegal about, or stated in my contract that I cannot have my card in my car. The only thing that puzzles me is my pin number, thats why I have the police investigating


"As for my card, every end/begining of month is the time when I normally do not use my card for charges and withdraws because it's usually paying-bills time. I often carry it with me to the gym and sometimes place it in a plastic card holder with my gym card that is in my car most of the time, and that I use for coffee, smoothies of other small things.

Two days after, when (I believe) my card was stolen, I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments. When viewing all the unknown transactions through online banking ( Sunday evening) is the idea that my atm card was in my car really hit me, and perhaps that it was missing. Unfortunately this was the case, and it did not take me to long to realize it.

Mike I had already tried explaining with what was written for you and copy/pasted once again. I tried explaining why many times I do not carry my ATM card. Something that will hopefully help your understanding is that there are credit cards, that also serve for emergency cases. Also, there is nothing ilegal about, or stated in my contract that I cannot have my card in my car. The only thing that puzzles me is my pin number, thats why I have the police investigating


"As for my card, every end/begining of month is the time when I normally do not use my card for charges and withdraws because it's usually paying-bills time. I often carry it with me to the gym and sometimes place it in a plastic card holder with my gym card that is in my car most of the time, and that I use for coffee, smoothies of other small things.

Two days after, when (I believe) my card was stolen, I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments. When viewing all the unknown transactions through online banking ( Sunday evening) is the idea that my atm card was in my car really hit me, and perhaps that it was missing. Unfortunately this was the case, and it did not take me to long to realize it.

Mike I had already tried explaining with what was written for you and copy/pasted once again. I tried explaining why many times I do not carry my ATM card. Something that will hopefully help your understanding is that there are credit cards, that also serve for emergency cases. Also, there is nothing ilegal about, or stated in my contract that I cannot have my card in my car. The only thing that puzzles me is my pin number, thats why I have the police investigating


"As for my card, every end/begining of month is the time when I normally do not use my card for charges and withdraws because it's usually paying-bills time. I often carry it with me to the gym and sometimes place it in a plastic card holder with my gym card that is in my car most of the time, and that I use for coffee, smoothies of other small things.

Two days after, when (I believe) my card was stolen, I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments. When viewing all the unknown transactions through online banking ( Sunday evening) is the idea that my atm card was in my car really hit me, and perhaps that it was missing. Unfortunately this was the case, and it did not take me to long to realize it.

I previously mentioned that I have no idea how someone could have gotten a hold of my pin#. This is why (yes I did) File a police report as soon as I noticed my card was gone and fraud had occured. There is video with a profile that does not match mine.

You said:

"I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments"

**Why would you leave your ATM card at home if you were going away for the weekend???? What if you needed emergency money?

You said:

"I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments"

**Why would you leave your ATM card at home if you were going away for the weekend???? What if you needed emergency money?

You said:

"I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments"

**Why would you leave your ATM card at home if you were going away for the weekend???? What if you needed emergency money?

You said:

"I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments"

**Why would you leave your ATM card at home if you were going away for the weekend???? What if you needed emergency money?

PIN numbers are not stored on your ATM card. So it is not possible to run your ATM card through a card reader to get your PIN. So please, explain to me how they got your number. If they watched you, than how did they know you left your card in the car?

As for depositing checks from companies, this makes no sense. BOA has limits on how much you can withdraw from an ATM daily, so adding more money makes no sense unless you don't have any money in your account, which if that's the case, makes me even more suspect of your story.

Your story about the video makes no sense either. Did you file a report with the police regarding the bank fraud? Did THEY look at the video?

Your story has more holes in it than Titanic

Mike from NJ,
Thanks for the time you took to respond.

Personal things that were stolen and that I initiallly noticed gone really had no value no real value to me (Burned cd's and $40 glasses). The only damage done to my car was that a rear window was forced down and left loose.

As for my card, every end/begining of month is the time when I normally do not use my card for charges and withdraws because it's usually paying-bills time. I often carry it with me to the gym and sometimes place it in a plastic card holder that is in my car most of the times. Those days of the month I use for coffee, smoothies of other small things.

Two days after, when (I believe) my card was stolen, I left town for the weekend and came back sunday, ready to prepare my week, including payments. When viewing all the unknown transactions through online banking ( Sunday evening) is the idea that my atm card was in my car really hit me, and perhaps that it was missing. Unfortunately this was the case, and it did not take me to long to realize it.

Yes, I acted a little bit late, but not completely wrong.

And about your theory on how thieves withdraw , I don't know anything about that. I just know that 2 checks from companies that dont exist were deposited into my account, and funds (including mine) were withdrawn all over california.

You can read about the profile they have in their video through another response I wrote to another "Mike"

Mike,
Thanks for your response.
Yes, there were cameras. As a matter of fact they requested me to visit the nearest BofA branch to update my picture and call them back immediately. I did all of this, and their response was that my picture looks like the shaved-head guy in their video. The problem here is that my natural hair is kind of long and wavy.

You mention that other items were taken when your car was broken into, yet you didn't check to make sure that your card wasn't? This doesn't make sense.

Why didn't you file a police report when your car was broken into on Wednesday. Didn't you notice? How can you not notice that things were taken from your car??

Also, thieves do not go from bank account to bank account making deposits and withdrawls, they go to one machine and drain the maximum for the day and then do ti again and again day after day until you catch it and stop it.

Was there anything in the deposits? Or did they deposit blank envelopes and then try to take money? This doesn't make sense either. BOA only allows up to $100 immediately available after a MAC deposit. So if they were thieves, they would drain the max per day and then that's it. Why make deposits?

This report screams bank fraud, and I hate to tell you this, but if you did do this, you are in a world of hurt. All ATM's have video, and it's a felony. Not to mention filing a false police report as well as any accomplices you had involved here.

Many of the comments here shed doubt and I understand why they would.

I do believe this possible 100%

first the deposits... thats easy...

You can make an empty envelope deposit at an ATM and withdraw a portion of the deposit at some banks. Now it is not stated in this report if that was the case, I am just guessing it was.

As for getting pin numbers.. that is easy also...

Many people are careless when punching in PIN numbers at gas stations, ATM, restaurants and so on.

There are also many devices out there that can be used to steal that info on unsuspecting people using an ATM.

Now, not noticing activity for 4 days on your account, totally possible also.

I don't check my account but every week.... why? because I make large transactions that allow me to easily remember my balance, but thats me.

So everything in this report is possible.

I do have a question though. Weren't there any cameras at the ATMs? didnt anyone suggest you look at them?

Cory,
I did not file the report because I initially did not give any importance to my sunglasses and cd's that I noticed missing. If I would have recalled that my card was in my car, I do agree that a timely police report would have been the smartest thing to do. Unfortunately, days later after banking online is when I realized there was a real problem by not knowing the whereabouts of my card.

Regarding the filing of the claims, a BofA representative did state that I had to wait for pending transactions to go through before reporting them as fraudulent.

Thanks

Cory,
Thank you for your input and I do understand your point of view.

Many times I left my card in my car for practical reasons, either with my costco, gym, etc. cards, in my glove compartment, or in my trunk in a bag with other belongings. The reason I it stayed in my car was because I had no reason to use it. On the contrary, I had to deposit money into my account to schedule my payments. Sunday is when I started payment planning, and when I realized my card was also gone.

Also, I did file a report a soon as I realized my card was gone.

The timing is "kind of fishy" in this report. It may be just the way you wrote it. You didn't notice anything amiss until you went online and noticed fraudulent activity on your account on Sun. June the 10th. Yet you state the fradulent activity started on June the 6th. You waited until the 10th to file a police report, which IS kind of odd considering "your card and other belonging" were stolen. Few, if any people leave their ATM card in their vehicle unattened. Everyone I know keeps it in their wallet/purse with them at all times. MOST normal people would have filed a police report the day of the break in or the next. "I was unable to claim all fraudulent activity...". That doesn't make any sense either. When I lost a card, I called, had the card company "freeze" ALL transactions. That way no transactions went through. I could settle the legitimate ones later. It's also kind of odd that a crook would make TWO deposits. How were the crooks able to get your PIN number? This post has too many red flags.

I did notice my card gone until sunday evening, when I went to my bank account online to check my balances and prepare my first monthly payments. This is when I connected the dots and noticed that my card was also gone.

Sorry Victor, you have no case. When someone tells you that people who commit bank fraud can obtain PIN numbers they are talking specifically about people who either watch the PIN number entry or install a false machine which holdsa your card and records the number you enter. PIN numbers are NOT included on the magnetic strip of an ATM card and the only thing a card reader will get is the card number. Period. If someone used your PIN number you either gave it to them or it was you as you make no claims that your PIN number was included within the items stolen.

When did you call the police and file a report? Was it Sunday night? If so, why didn't you call them on the 6th (Wednesday) and why didn't you call BOA on Wednesday when your card was stolen?

Sorry Victor, you have no case. When someone tells you that people who commit bank fraud can obtain PIN numbers they are talking specifically about people who either watch the PIN number entry or install a false machine which holdsa your card and records the number you enter. PIN numbers are NOT included on the magnetic strip of an ATM card and the only thing a card reader will get is the card number. Period. If someone used your PIN number you either gave it to them or it was you as you make no claims that your PIN number was included within the items stolen.

When did you call the police and file a report? Was it Sunday night? If so, why didn't you call them on the 6th (Wednesday) and why didn't you call BOA on Wednesday when your card was stolen?

Sorry Victor, you have no case. When someone tells you that people who commit bank fraud can obtain PIN numbers they are talking specifically about people who either watch the PIN number entry or install a false machine which holdsa your card and records the number you enter. PIN numbers are NOT included on the magnetic strip of an ATM card and the only thing a card reader will get is the card number. Period. If someone used your PIN number you either gave it to them or it was you as you make no claims that your PIN number was included within the items stolen.

When did you call the police and file a report? Was it Sunday night? If so, why didn't you call them on the 6th (Wednesday) and why didn't you call BOA on Wednesday when your card was stolen?

Sorry Victor, you have no case. When someone tells you that people who commit bank fraud can obtain PIN numbers they are talking specifically about people who either watch the PIN number entry or install a false machine which holdsa your card and records the number you enter. PIN numbers are NOT included on the magnetic strip of an ATM card and the only thing a card reader will get is the card number. Period. If someone used your PIN number you either gave it to them or it was you as you make no claims that your PIN number was included within the items stolen.

When did you call the police and file a report? Was it Sunday night? If so, why didn't you call them on the 6th (Wednesday) and why didn't you call BOA on Wednesday when your card was stolen?