How I Survived Bob Jones University *UPDATE ..I went there too, I was temporarily brainwashed *REBUTTALS

Bob Jones University, a bastion of fundamentalism.

Bob Jones University, standing true on the Word of God.

Bob Jones University, still standing but not standing still.

Bob Jones University, a school with backbone, grit, and determination.

BJU grounded me in the word of God.

They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:



Their email: TheFraudChick@aol.com

Their name: The Fraud Chick



Their relationship to the company: Consumer Suggestion



Rebuttal:

Well, I just looked and looked and I could not find God in the Bob Jones University Directory. I scoured the faculty listing and God isn't one of the instructors either.



Manipulative people twist things like the bible and the constitution. And how could we all forget the fun loving al-Qa'ida's interpretation of the Hole Qoran as some divine instruction to ram two airplanes into fully occupied buildings and murdering thousands of innocents? I believe the complaint about Bob Jones University is that it's run by boneheads.



It's not the religion or the law, it's the snapper-heads who wield it. Your personal religious comments not only don't make sense to the complaints here but they are rude and inflammatory. Please don't assume that I'm a religious zealot. There are some comments that are just plain mean, obnoxious, in your face and-dare I say it-holier than thou.



The Fraud Chick

They filed the following to the above Rip-Off Report:



Their email: adolphchrist@godisdead.com

Their name: Adolph



Their relationship to the company: Devotee



Rebuttal:

Wow!...what a lenghty, verbose discourse on opposing views of

Christianity!



I have but one comment: "God" spelled backwards is "Dog".



That expresses the complete width, breadth and depth of my view of Christianity.

They filed the following to the above Rip-Off Report:



Their email: kingpeng1@lycos.com



Their relationship to the company: Consumer Comment



Rebuttal:

Ok, brainwashed. No doubt, BJU has problems. I was abused myself while working on the paint crew by older faculty brats. They did whatever they wanted to me and got away with it. They even got to listen to rock music such as the Beatles, the Doors, and other anti-Christain pagans. The brats would spit water at me, hit me, treat me like dirt, etc. One of the kids is a well-know pastor's son in the BJU community (So what's new? Seems like every other pastor's son at BJU was p***k). I also suffered abuse

from other kids at the school. I used to have to stay after school in "late stay" which was not a tenth as bad as "day camp" during the summer. I saw kids and "counselors get away with all sorts of abuse and rules infractions short of murder and child molestation (actually one counselor went to court over the latter).



I met some of the rudest, crudest, perverted individuals over there. I myself had no trouble finding "friends" who held the same anti-God beliefs as I. Thieves, whores, witches, anarchists, druggies, Satan worshipers, homos, porno-heads, the list of the worst sinners goes on (I was one of them). They all go to BJU.



The fact is, sometimes it was hard to find the "real" Christians(I was not one of them). In fact, if took me till my senior year in high-school to really start correctly catagorizing the hypocrites from the true children of God (I myself being a reprobate).



I can give long list of BJ-deemed "spiritual leader" people who were and are anything but Christian. I can also give you a list of those who are Christain but are totaly not what BJ is "all about." BJ is stocked full of faculty/staff who are horrible judges of character. And faculty kids aka "faculty brats" are notorious for their ability to ignore rules, including government ones. BJ is becoming (or already is) a law unto itself. I see strong correlations between it and the oppressive, medievil Roman-Catholic church. In my opinion, the school is just too big to be what it claims. And I could go one all day about the school.



In order to walk the talk, BJ needs to do some serious housecleaning. But if they took it too seriously, they might end up with only a couple hundred folks left on the entire campus. Of course, if they were really sold out for God, this would be no problem.



So, as you can see, I know BJ has problems. Abuse is common over there. I know of this little oriental kid who used to get beat up by his bigger dorm mates. One tryed to throw him out of a window once. I know of girls who have been sexually harrassed and abused by male students.



After I was expelled for the second time from school, I ran into one of the preacher boys over at the University. I'd seen him a lot on campus; he was pretty popular over there for being a spiritual example. For all I know, he still goes there. This was only about 2-3 years ago. Anyway, I met him while he was selling dope to one of my acquaintances. That's right, this preacher boy was a dope dealer in greenville; and making a good try at it too. A lot of these kids are the worst kind of hypocrites,

but will never be expelled by the university. And I'm sure BJU is closing its eyes to a lot of the mischief.



So I could go on about all the dirt. But I've gotta disagree with you. NO WAY does the Bible accept homosexuality. Sodomites were put to death in the OT for that. And the greatest commandment in the Bible is not "judge not..."; though that is important. Jesus Christ said the greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind; and the second greatest, to love your neighbor as yourself. I was the worst sinner when I was at BJU and that sin turned me into a monster when I got out. It got to a point I don't even want to discuss.

Only when I found my need for a Saviour and turned my back on my flesh and followed Christ was I able to have victory over my sin and the ability to forgive those who had wronged me. Even people from BJU.



E-mail me for more discussion.

BJ Cares? WHAT-ever!



Bob Jones University. Yes, I used to go there. I went there for two years, in fact. Back then, I had no idea what life was all about. I was temporarily brainwashed into thinking that the faculty and staff there knew God and knew what was best for me. BOY, was I wrong!



The faculty and staff at Bob Jones University (for the most part) do not care about the God I love and serve. The God I love and serve is a loving one. He does not judge people based on their skin color or sexual orientation. Yes, He loves everyone. He asks us to obey His commandments, to love one another as we love ourselves, and not to judge. That's the God I love.



The God they present to the students is a wrathful one. Their God tells His children to be judgmental. Their God seems to deem one sin as bigger than another. "Little white lies" so often told there by faculty and students alike are less "sinful" than homosexuality (which is not a sin) or murder. The Bible does not place one sin as smaller or larger than another. The people at BJU need to study their Bibles more to find out what it really says! They use it to say what they want it to say based on their prejudices and fears, rather than fact.



At Bob Jones University, women are regarded as less important and less intelligent than men are. The rules are different for them, right down to when they must be out of bed in the morning and when their rooms are to be ready for inspection in the morning. (A DAILY room inspection! No wonder so many people leave from that school unable to make decisions for themselves.)



I am not saying that EVERYONE who attends there or graduates from there is a bad person. Certainly not. I have many wonderful friends who have gone there and turned out like me--free thinkers who believe the Bible but have not been made zombies by the constant cramming of BJU doctrine down their throats. What do I mean by that? Well...take the "creed" for example:



"I believe in the inspiration of the Bible, both the Old and the New Testaments; the creation of man by the direct act of God; the incarnation and virgin birth of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ; His identification as the Son of God; His vicarious atonement for the sins of mankind by the shedding of his blood on the cross; the resurrection of His body from the tomb; His power to save men from sin; the new birth through the regeneration by the Holy Spirit; and the gift of eternal life by the grace of God."



Now that you've read it, try to imagine over 5,000 people CHANTING this every morning, Monday through Thursday. That is EXACTLY what happens in chapel at Bob Jones University. On the BJU website, they say of this creed, "It is a concise statement of the most important truths taught in God's Word." Well, wonderful. Actually, in my opinion, the two most important truths from God's Word are the following:



"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1)



and...



"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, HEAR O ISRAEL; THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD: AND THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY SOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND, AND WITH ALL THY STRENGTH: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:29-31)



Matthew 7:1 clearly says that we are not to be judgmental. It tells us to keep our focus on sins and shortcomings in our own lives, rather than watching others and telling them what their sins and shortcomings are. Most Christians find this difficult to do. Nowhere is this fact more evident than at Bob Jones University. Demerits are easy to get, believe me. If your room isn't perfect, if you get out of bed late, or if you are late for chapel, prayer meeting, or class, you get demerits. Isn't this just a way of showing another where they are failing? Maybe instead of having all these rules and punishments, Bob Jones University should have been reviewing their policies and removing the stupid ones (like the no interracial dating rule, for instance) to save embarrassment in the media. They got what they deserved. Actually, they deserve to be shut down. The quality of education there is sadly lacking. They are just telling people how to believe, not encouraging individuality and critical thinking. That's right! Heaven forbid that anyone would "judge" anyone at Bob Jones University.



Mark 12:29-31 tells us what the Lord says is the greatest commandment. To love the Lord with all your being, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Who is my neighbor? EVERYONE! Christians, non-Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Catholics, wiccans, pagans, pregnant teens, single moms, homosexuals, murderers, thieves, abortionists...EVERYONE. Not just people I like; not just people I think are "good." BJU-ites consider only people they like, who like them, and who act the way they think is "good," to be their neighbors. Bob Jones University needs a reality check.



Back to the issue of the quality of education at Bob Jones University (actually, the lack thereof). When I started there, it was in Early Childhood Education. I had more Bible classes than anything else!! Why so much indoctrination? To hide the fact that the teachers can't teach, perhaps? When I changed to Interior Decorating, I did much better. That teacher could teach. She was human. She talked about her family, her likes and dislikes, and her personal opinions more than she talked about the Bible. Yes, we had prayer at the beginning of each class, but these prayers were simple, caring, and done in a spirit of love, not as something we HAD to do. She was the only good teacher I had during my entire two years there, and probably the only true Christian teacher, as well.



The faculty, staff, and students there would prefer to believe a lie than search for the truth. Their policies on interracial relationships, homosexuality, and their views on the subservience of women plainly illustrate this. As soon as they got bad publicity for their policy on interracial relationships, they changed it for being "unbiblical." They, like many Christians believe that homosexuality is a perverted lifestyle. On the contrary, there is NOTHING in the Bible to indicate that it is truly a sin. There are accounts of individuals who felt that it was wrong.



Let's examine the life of Lot to show just how "godly" he was. Matthew 7:1 applies to him perfectly. According to Genesis 13:7-11, Lot was a VERY greedy man.



"And there was a strife between the herdmen of Abram's cattle and the herdmen of Lot's cattle: and the Canaanite and the Perizzite dwelled then in the land. And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdman and thy herdmen; for we be brethren. Is not the whole land before thee? separate thyself, I pray thee, from me: if thou wilt take the left hand, then I will go to the right; or if thou depart to the right hand, then I will go to the left. And Lot lifted up his eyes and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar. Then Lot chose him all the plain of Jordan; and Lot journeyed east: and they separated themselves the one from the other." (Genesis 13:7-11)



Why did Lot choose the best land for himself? Human nature. Don't make Lot out to be a godly man. If he were, he would have let Abram choose, or he would have chosen the land that was not so nice for himself. There were a few other issues with Lot as well.



For one, he saw nothing wrong with sending his virgin daughters out to be gang raped by the entire city of Sodom because he viewed homosexuality as a sin, not because God did.



"But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: And they called unto Lot and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him. And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof." (Genesis 19:4-8)



Why did Lot think it was better for his own children to be raped rather than complete strangers? Why do most Christians ignore this part of the Scripture? Because they are afraid of being proved wrong.



This same Lot would later become so drunk two nights in a row that he committed incest with his daughters (the ones he would have sent out to be raped).



"And Lot went up out of Zoar and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters. And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth: Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose. Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father." (Genesis 19:30-36)



One could argue that the daughters were the underhanded ones. Why, then, are so many Christians so adamant against excessive drinking (or any drinking, for that matter)?

The phrase used is "and they made their father drink wine that night." That conjures up images of them forcing alcohol down his throat against his will, does it not? Well, that is the only way they could have MADE him drink wine. He had a free will choice to do it or not to do it. Why is it alright for him to send his daughters out to be raped? Why is it alright for him to become so drunk that he did not even know that he had sexual intercourse with both of his daughters? Why? Because Christians do not want to admit that this man had serious personal and spiritual problems, especially since he was opposed to homosexuality and they can use that as a case against it. They fear that if it is proved wrong, particularly from the Bible, many other beliefs they hold will be called into question. The best way to avoid this is to not take the Bible out of context and to not use ONLY the Bible to defend their positions. This may come as a shock to many Christians, but not everyone believes in God or the Bible, and when you whip out the Bible to refute their arguments for or against something, they automatically tune you out, and rightly so.



Yes, I believe the Bible. I believe it is God's Word. I believe that you cannot take it out of context to make it say what you want it to say. That makes any argument you have invalid to those who believe the Bible within its appropriate context and those who do not believe the Bible at all.



As for their views of women, well, they are just behind the times. Yes, the Bible says that women are to obey their husbands, but it also says that husbands are to love their wives as their own body.



"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the savior of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it: That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So out men to love their wives as their own bodies, He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." (Ephesians 5:22-30)



Where in this passage does it say anything about a woman being less important than a man? Where does it say that she is to be a servant or a slave to her husband? It doesn't! It says that when a woman marries, she is to be FAITHFUL to her husband. It also says that the husband is to protect his wife and be the SPIRITUAL head of the family. This does not mean that he has a right to make all the decisions, tell her how to dress, or where to go. It does not say that she is to wait on him hand and foot and have his dinner hot and waiting when he comes home from work. So many women are VIOLENTLY PHYSICALLY, EMOTIONALLY, AND SEXUALLY ABUSED because of the way some pastors interpret and preach this passage.



Do you have ANY idea how much it costs to even attend this school? Well, from the "school's" website, I got this figure: $10,320 per year! For what? Being taught that women are to be treated no better than dogs? Having the Bible crammed down your throat from the moment you get up in the morning until you go to bed at night? Getting a poor-quality education? Or is it really to keep the Joneses rich? Well, in my opinion, it is the latter. They do not care about anything but money and how they look to other "Christians." If they really WERE a Christian institution, would God not supply all their needs? They would only need to rely on prayer. The tuition fees would be MUCH lower than they are now. Oh, and keep in mind that the students barely, if at all, make minimum wage if they work there.



When the college started, Dr. Bob Jones, Sr. had the right idea and the right approach. Dr. Bob Jones, Jr. was also a fairly godly man. Dr. Bob Jones, III, on the other hand, lacks character, backbone, and concern for the things of God. I hope and pray that someone who possesses these attributes will take over the school and run it properly, based on what the Bible actually says, not what most "Christians" want it to say because of their hatred of anyone or anything they do not understand.



All Bible passages taken from the King James Version.