We purchased a 1985 Fleetwood Southwind RV for $3,150.00 on ebay from Anson Shultz of Boyer Tire in Castle Rock CO in December 2005. It was advertised, as in good condition but with a slight engine knock. Boyer Tire took the money for the sale of the RV and charged me $325.00 to tell me that the engine knock was in fact a blown engine. Boyer Tire had contracted to remove and replace the engine. They defaulted on the repair job.
However, after jerking us around for 6 months, the owner of Boyer Tire, John Brownlie abandoned the business and went on a mining expedition. Anson Shultz was left in charge and promptly demanded that I remove the RV or he would seize it and sell it as an abandoned vehicle. The vehicle he sold me just a few months earlier. Anson Shultz, Boyer Tire and ebay had defrauded us out of $3,475.00
BBB CASE#: 75018368
Complaint filed by: John S (More) Consumer Info
DAY PHONE:570 xxx-xxxx (((REDACTED FOR SECURITY PURPOSES)))
Wilkes Barre, PA
EVE PHONE:570 xxx-xxxx
Complaint filed against: Boyer Tire & Service Co (More) NAME: Boyer Tire & Service Co
BBB MEMBER: NO
ADDRESS:1160 Caprice Dr
Castle Rock, CO 80104
PHONE: 303 688-1231
Date Activity Description
06/12/2007 Case ADMINISTRATIVELY CLOSED
06/12/2007 Inform Business - Case ADMINISTRATIVELY CLOSED
06/12/2007 Send Consumer Rebuttal - No New Offer - AJR CLT.cf.rtf
06/11/2007 Received Business' Rebuttal Response
My previous response is an accurate account of the transaction between MR Sains AND MR schultz
is an accurate account of the transaction.
PLEASE ask Mr Sains to discuss this matter with Mr Schultz directly.
1. BOYER TIRE DID NOT SELL THE VEHICLE.
2. BOYER TIRE DID NOT OWN THE VEHICLE.
3. BOYER TIRE PROCESSED THE CREDIT PAYMENTS FOR THE BUYER AND SELLER AT THEIR REQUEST TO ALLOW MR SAINS TO MAKE PAYMENTS RATHER THAN FULLFILL THE E-BAY CASH CONTRACT.
4.AN INDIVIDUAL (MR SCHULTZ)DOES NOT REQUIRE A DEALERS LICENCE TO SELL A VEHICLE THAT HE OWNS.
06/11/2007 Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business
06/07/2007 More info received from the consumer _
After all defrauding and defaulting by Boyer Tire a request for a refund was presented to mr brownlie.Boyer Tire is guilty of all charges by the simple fact that they have refused to return the money from the illegal sale. If Boyer Tire had any credibility they would simply refund the sale. The Colorado Department of Revenue is conducting an investigation of Boyer Tire's illegal activities.
06/07/2007 More info received from the consumer
BBB fully understood the transaction. Boyer Tire acted as an unlicensed auto dealer. 1.Boyer Tire sold the vehicle and collected all the money. 2 Payment made by Visa upon completion of E-Bay transaction in three installments. No contract Boyer Tire issued Visa reciept.Sale was between Boyer Tire and myself.Boyer Tire did not disclose any third party agreements. All reciepts are from Boyer Tire. 3 After Boyer Tire recieved first $1,000.00 installment, Anson Schultz reported true condition of the misrepresented fraudulent sale. Vehicle engine was blown and Boyer Tire contracted to do engine repair or replacement. Boyer Tire charged $325.00 to tear apart bottom of engine and left it torn apart, left in basket case condition.
Brownlie became angry and refused to perform contracted engine work and demanded the vehicle be removed or he would sell our vehicle. 4.E-Bay listing was fraudulent and evasive. Engine knock was minimized by Anson Schultz in phone conversation prior to E-Bay bid. Motor-home was misrepresented as in good condition and shifts well. It is not in good condition and has transmission problems. Engine knock was blown engine. This motorhome was stolen and roughed up by the thieves. The Co. State Police recovered the vehicle in very bad condition. Boyer Tire engaged in a ghost transaction on E-Bay, acted as an unlicensed dealer, sold and collected all the money on Boyer Tire receipts, defaulted on contracted engine work, and tried to steal the vehicle back
06/04/2007 BBB Reviews Consumer Rebuttal to Business Response
(The consumer indicated he/she DID NOT accept the response from the business.)
This fabrication, of wordy and colorful pack of lies is not an acceptable response.
The facts set forth so far in the case contradict this response of mr brownlies.
Boyer Tire took the vehicle from a sick man then sold it, (misrepresented it)on ebay. Boyer Tire took all the money from the sale.
Boyer entered into a "ghost transaction" with regard to the title, (illegal in PA). Transfer of the title without ownership does not exclude Boyer Tire from acting as an agent of the sale, (aka dealer), (also illegal in PA). The Colorado Department of Revenue would like to know if Boyer Tire has a dealer's licence.
I will prepare a detailed correction of the false statements made by mr brownlies in the next day or two.
06/01/2007 Forward Business response to Consumer
05/30/2007 No Response received from Business on 2nd Notice
05/25/2007 Receive Business Response
From: BLUESKY6040@aol.com (mailto:BLUESKY6040@aol.com)
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: BBB Complaint Case#75018368(Ref#73-15003055-75018368-14-3100)
Following our discussion today Boyer Tire have the following comments. Since the BBB failed to fully understand the nature of the transaction between Mr. Schultz and Mr. Sain it our previous communication and continues to request information about an E-Bay sale that it was not involved in however in order for the buyer and seller to mutually conclude the transaction Boyer offered financial services mutually agreed by both parties.
1. The sale of a vehicle takes place with the transfer of title between two parties The Purchaser and the Seller (owner). This is our best interpretation of a sale.
Boyer Tire has never owned OR sold the motorhome in question.
2. Payment, there are many ways that financial transactions take place. Cash, credit etc.
In this case the purchaser agreed to pay for the vehicle upon completion of the E-Bay transaction to the seller, this did not happen. The initial deposit was made and further payments were not contractually made by the purchaser. Boyer Tire was asked to broker the financial transaction between both parties (Similar to Wells Fargo, CitiBank or any other public or private entity) this was agreed by both parties. It remained neutral in the sale.
Boyer Tire paid the seller up front for the transaction and received payment to cover these costs from the Buyer in AGREED installments. A normal financial transaction. NOT THE SALE OF THE VEHICLE.
3. A diagnosis request for the inspection was requested by the purchaser directly with Boyer Tire after the sale was concluded and he took ownership of the vehicle and based upon written quotes and approval by The new owner (Mr. Sain) in writing the work was concluded and our diagnosis made known.
After the diagnosis was complete and a repair quotation was submitted, Mr. Sain paid for the diagnosis, declined our professional repair approach and removed the vehicle as was to another location.
The diagnosis transaction was concluded as agreed and we stand by our diagnosis.
4. At your request we reviewed the E-Bay listing for irregularities or misrepresentations. After a detailed technical review we found the E-Bay description to be accurate at the time of sale.
The salient points being Sold as is where is, (This is a statement of fact) The engine has a knock and MAY be repaired, or WILL require replacing. (Both of these comments are correct based on our diagnosis and were clearly stated in the vehicle description) There is no mention or a BLOWN engine that indicates it could not be repaired.
The motorhome is in good condition and shifts well.
(Boyer Tire cannot comment on descriptive adjectives used in the E-Bay sale since they are subject to interpretation. That is the reason E-Bay has a dialogue feature to enable communication between buyer and seller in the case of uncertainties. However in general terms this would be an accurate description at the time of sale).
If Boyer was asked to comment on the condition of the motorhome WHICH IT WAS NOT our professional statement would be" Given the age of the motorhome and the sale price we would state that the motorhome ran and drove with no apparent transmission problems There is an engine knock that requires investigation that may lead to an engine replacement. The accessories have been tested and work however the vehicle has not been road tested since the vehicle is not insured and we only observe road tests we do not conduct them. The interior is complete, the windshield is in a roadworthy condition as are the tires and lights. Give the condition and age the sale price is fair and is reflected in the closeness of the bidding. However motorhomes are known to be costly to repair due to their design and the purchase of a motorhome requires risktaking.
In conclusion The amount paid was in keeping with the age and condition of the vehicle and full disclosure was made on E-Bay (perhaps E-Bay could comment on this)
BOYER TIRE assisted the buyer in financing the transaction.
It was contracted by Mr. Sain to diagnose the engine condition we did this in a professional manner and reported accordingly.
It explained options available to repair the engine to Mr. Sain. It stored the vehicle for a period greatly in excess of the E-Bay transaction for Mr. Sain at no charge. BOYER TIRE did not own or sell the vehicle. It did not accept Mr. Sain's offer to "Patch" the engine (we do not conduct this manner of repair to protect future potential buyers).
BOYER TIRE is of the opinion that the E-Bay CONTRACT is binding ( Further clarification can be sought from E-Bay) That upon a review of the documents that Mr Schultz was the legal owner at the time of sale. Mr Sain agreed to use Boyer Tire and its credit facility to act as financier for the transaction and allow payment terms in lieu of his non compliance of the financial contract with the Seller due to a purported lack of funds to complete the transaction.
05/25/2007 Make a Phone Call
I contacted Comp/John B and asked him what the 3 Boyer Tire receipts were for. He stated it was for the sale of the RV between 2 private individuals. I asked him why he used the company receipts if it was a private sale. He stated because he was a "nice guy". I then told him that because the sale of the RV receipts were under his business name, I would re-open and count the complaint against him. He then threatened to file a complaint against the BBB because he felt that I was attacking him because he is a minority. I told him his assumption was incorrect, I also mentioned I was a minority. His reply, but your an American. I read him the complaint again and asked him if the advertisment as stated by Sxxx was correct. He replied no. I asked him if he would fax me the ebay description of the RV. He told me I could go pick the info up, then stated he would fax to me. He asked me why can't you get it from Sions. My reply was that I felt the sale was made through his business and it should be him to provide the info if he continues to allege the sale was made between 2 private individuals. He agreed to fax the info.
Ebay advertisment received and scanned.
Comp/John called L/M on V/M asking for confirmation of his email ebay RV advertisement. I confirmed. This call was recorded in Denver. Will review and place notes in file either Wed/Thur May 30th or 31st. Betty
05/25/2007 ReOpen the Complaint
05/16/2007 More info received from the consumer
Boyer Tire and Service is falsely listed as having a satisfactory rating, with no customer complaints. That is outrageous!! The BBB Denver has absolutely no credibility if they refuse to list our haneous complaint against this fraudulent company. This refusal violates the basic foundation of the BBB. Which was founded to protect the customer from fraudulent and deceptive business practices.PUBLISH OUR COMPLAINT!!!
From: John Sxxx II (mailto:xxxxx)
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:43 AM
To: Betty Lucero
Subject: Re: # 75018368
We will take action against your whitewash of Boyer Tire.
Your disgusting satisfactory rating and closure of our legitimate complaint, is in violation of the foundation of the BBB. The BBB was founded to protect the customer not the fraudulent businesses. Your closeure of our complaint will be taken to a higher authority and so will your breach of our trust. This, after we fully complied with your request for the e-bay listing showing the article number of the sale.
You can't even imagine a fraud so devious as the fraud perpetrated upon us by Boyer Tire, the company you wrongly gave a satisfactory rating.
The State of Colorado has a serious problem with vehicle repair fraud, and you are aiding and abbetting by defrauding the customer with a false report. READ AND ENFORCE YOUR VERY OWN "COLORADO MOTOR VEHICLE REPAIR ACT"!!!
We expect the case reopened and a report of our our complaint, PUBLISHED!!!
John and Stephanie Sxxx
5-16-07 forwarded to Complaint Committee for review. BL
From: Betty Lucero
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 11:06 AM
To: Megan Miller
Subject: FW: # 75018368 - Complaint Committee Review
Please review this case in your next committee meeting.
05/03/2007 Bureau Comment
It has come to my attention that you did not receive the out of purview letter that we sent to you regarding this complaint. I have attached a copy for your records.
Denver/Boulder Better Business Bureau
P.O. Box 48179
Denver, CO 80204
Tel: 303-758-2100 Fax: 303-758-8321
May 3, 2007
Wilkes Barre, PA 18702
RE: Case # 75018368 : Boyer Tire & Service Co
Thank you for contacting the Better Business Bureau regarding your complaint.
The complaint was received by the BBB on March 22, 2007 and has been assigned case # 75018368 in our files.
We regret to inform you that the Better Business Bureau cannot process your complaint. The case has been reviewed and was found to be beyond the BBB's purview. The case will still be forwarded to the company for their information but cannot be pursued as a formal complaint.
It is our policy to process only those complaints that fall into the BBB's scope. Items such as criminal allegations, requests for punitive damages, disputes based solely on dissatisfaction of "price", labor disputes, cases already involved in litigation, cases involving medical malpractice, civil rights violations, business to business collection issues, complaints filed by a third party, private party cases etc. are not handled by the BBB.
A list of agencies that can help you with these types of complaints can be obtained by visiting our website at www.denverbbb.org.
Thank you for contacting the Better Business Bureau.
Boulder Office Manager
Dispute Resolution Department
5-7-07 Consumer John call l/m stating he received the out of purview letter but does not understand why or what that means. They sold the motorhome through a private ebay account, case should not be closed at all. He wants a call back with explanation. BL
04/30/2007 More info received from the consumer _
The ebay listing information requested is as follows:eBay Motors 1985 southwind motorhome motor home south wind camper (item 4595614150 end time Dec-11-05 134943 PST)Boyer Tire and Anson Shultz for some reason could not have an ebay account, probably due to some fraud they were involved in, with ebay in the past. They used Anson Shultz's wife's account to list the motor home. All monies were due and payable to Boyer Tire. According to PNC Bank, Boyer Tire is the vendor and fiduciary with the responsibility of sale. PNC VISA agrees, they said, "if Boyer Tire took the money they are responsible for the sale".ps It was noted that in a telephone call on 5/18/2006 at 1:16 pm est during a call to arrange the agreement to remove the motor home, a loud voice yelled out, "I'll Kill Him", obviously referring to me. This,as I was making arrangements to comply with their ultimatum to remove the motor home. NO WAY TO TREAT A PAYING CUSTOMER.
04/18/2007 More info received from the consumer _
In addition John Brownlie and Anson Shultz of Boyer Tire basically stole the motorhome a gentleman from Colorado Springs CO who was diagnosed with cancer and was unable to come up with the $3,000.00 to $4,000.00 Boyer Tire wanted to fix his motorhome. So the poor man gave Boyer Tire his motorhome for nothing, $0.00. When the crooks of Boyer Tire (John Brownlie and Anson Shultz) sold it to me, they made a pure profit on the sale. John Brownlie is a Bald Faced Liar when he states he has spent any money on that motor home. On the contrary he stole it from a dying man with cancer. He is an evil liar.
04/12/2007 Case Closed - OUT OF PURVIEW
04/11/2007 More info received from the consumer _
In addition Mr Brownlee lied about his mining expeditions which I have documented on numerous telephone calls. As well he sent a us barage of threatening emails regarding our motorhome, he is the harrasser and we are the harrassee.Mr Brownlee needs to lose his business licence with Colorado, he is violation of numerous statutes of the Colorado Motor Vehichle Repair ActMr Brownlee has had the Castle Rock Police and Attorney Bradley on his premices investigating his garage at our request.
My reply 1-12-07
Please provide the details of the item offered on Ebay such as the Item # etc to prove that the company sold you the van. Without that verification, we are unable to assist you further.
04/11/2007 More info received from the consumer _
I am obligated to respond to Mr. Brownlies' item by item response to point out further lies by Mr. Brownlie. Boyer Tire did sell the motorhome and collected all the money.Boyer Tire tore apart engine bottom and did not put it back and charged $323.00. Boyer Tire submitted a quote and contracted to replace the engine.Boyer Tire defaulted on the vehicle repair and sold the vehicle on E-Bay using a private E-Bay account because they did not have a company E-Bay auction account.Boyer Tire sold and had possession of the vehicle for six months due to their default on the engine job. Boyer Tire did not charge storage because they would be in violation of the Colorado Vehicle Repair Act Statute 42-9-106. Boyer Tire not Mr. Sions demanded the vehicle to be removed or it would be sold. (see e-mail below)WE HAVE INSTRUCTED THAT THE VEHICLE BE REMOVED FROM OUR PROPERTY WITHIN SEVEN DAYS UNLESS THIS MATTER IS RESOLVED OR IT WILL BE SOLD TO DEFRAY COSTS. G WILK store manager c.c J BROWNLIE.Mr. Brownlie lied about his minority status. He is a white Northern European. Mr. Brownlie lied regarding verbal abuse and harrassment. He committed fraud and is simply using these lies to cover up. Boyer Tire stole Mr. Sions' $4,000.00 and has refused to refund.Mr. Brownlie regards the truth as offensive e-mails and is in violation of the Co. Motor Vehicle Repair Act and Co. Consumer Protection Act. FBI, ICI, FTC, Co.Atty Gen., PA Police have been notified.
04/11/2007 Received Business' Rebuttal Response _
boyer tire did not sell the motorhome this transaction was by two private parties.
boyer tire did diagnose the problem and gharged accordingly.
boyer tire submitted a quote to replace the engine.
boyer tire repairs vehicles it does not sell vehicles.
boyer tire is not a storage yard although Mr Sxxx treated it as one at his convienience.
boyer tire accomodated Mr Sxxx requests until he removed the vehicle at his convienience.
I John Brownlie a minority in the USA have had to put up with verbal abuse from Mr.Sxxx and now that he has commited the same to you in writing in this E-mail I will be discussing the way forward with my lawyer and bosssibly calling you to testify in this matter.
Again boyer tire went out of it's way at it's own cost in this matter. No more.
If the BBB forwards offfensive e-mails it is compliant with Mr.Sxxx and as such there is legislation to protect minorities such as myself.
If you have any additional questions or require information regarding the sale transaction please contact the parties involved and not boyer tire.
regards John Brownlie.
04/10/2007 Forward Consumer Rebuttal to Business
04/10/2007 BBB Reviews Consumer Rebuttal to Business Response Scanned
04/10/2007 ReOpen the Complaint
04/05/2007 More info received from the consumer ________________________________________
All invoices for all the transactions involving the 1985 Fleetwood Southwind were from Boyer Tire and Service. The sale and repair tickets were done on Boyer Tire and Service invoices.The rest of the business response is false, and they have lied consistantly throughout the transaction.
4-5-07, Please fax copies of all transactions with Boyer Tire for further review and assistance.
04/04/2007 Case Closed - OUT OF PURVIEW
04/04/2007 Inform Business Case Beyond Purview
04/04/2007 Inform Consumer - Case Closed Out of Purview The BBB also does not handle issues concerning private individuals.
04/04/2007 Case judged to be Out of BBB Purview
04/04/2007 Forward Business response to Consumer
04/04/2007 Receive Business Response
Contact Name and Title: john brownlie
Contact Phone: 7202617252
Contact Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
The vehicle in question was purchased by Mr. Sxxx and Mr.Schultz (WHO BY COINCIDENCE IS A BOYER TIRE EMPLOYEE) (both private individuals). Boyer tire was not involved in this transaction in any way.
To my recollection the vehicle was sold as is with a potential damaged engine and that it may require replacing (please refer to e-bay listing).
Mr.Sxxx contracted Boyer Tire to investigate the cause of the engine problem. We supplied a quote to do so and he accepted to have the engine pan removed and the bearings inspected. We found that the crankshaft was scored on one journal (a commom failing on these engines)and advised him accordingly.
HIS RESPONSE WAS NOT TO INCUR ANY ADDITIONAL COSTS and not to replace the pan since it would be removed again later.
The vehicle was stored at our premisses for many months at no cost to Mr.Sxxx (normal storage rates are $150-00 per month) The delays in reaching a conclusion on the repairs were due to Mr. Sxxx not entering into an agreement to have the vehicle repaired due to lack of funds.
In summary the vehicle was sold beeetween two private individuals if you require additional information on this please contact them directly.
Boyer tire's charges for the investigation can be supported by industry standards.
The decission making process was with Mr. Sxxx at all times and not pressured by storage charges.
Mr Sxxx did however cause buisness disruption by harassing both me and my staff on numerous occasions prompting me to send him a letter.
I am the owner of Boyer Tire an at no time abandoned the buisness as stated by Mr.Sxxx.
If you require additional information on Boyer Tire involvement in this matter please contact me.
Regards John Brownlie.
03/22/2007 Notify Business of Dispute
03/22/2007 Send Acknowledgement to Consumer
03/22/2007 Case Reviewed by BBB
03/21/2007 Case Received by BBB
Case Description: The motorhome was advertised on ebay as in good condition running and shifting,with a slight engine knock. Anson Shultz stated... (More)
Category: Sales Practice Issues
Case opened date:03/22/2007
Case closed date:06/12/2007
Desired Resolution:Our $4000.00 Back... (More)
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Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania
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