• Report: #1010135
Complaint Review:


  • Submitted: Wed, February 06, 2013
  • Updated: Wed, February 06, 2013

  • Reported By: Sidney — san francisco California United States of America
el cerrito, California United States of America

fantasymakers Unprofessional, Uncivil, Arrogant, Uncommunicative, Misleading Advertising el cerrito, California

*Consumer Comment: About as straight forward as it gets

*Author of original report: By All Means - VISIT THEM! (but read etc first)

*REBUTTAL Individual responds: The Proof of the Pudding

*Author of original report: reply to Lorrett

*UPDATE Employee: I'm sorry he doesn't like us.

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I visited them about three and a half years ago.

I called them recently to see if their policies  had changed. They did not want to discuss the matter, or their policies.

Only after you have paid $200+/hour, and the clock has start d running, do they reveal the house rules, which are somewhat different from their web pages strong inferences, and evasive information regarding the details.

No sex is expected or given of course, That is the only SPECIFIC unambiguous

Aside from that, the ladies are unaware of even the most basic male anatomy. Even though there is no
skin-to-skin contact, male orgasms are discouraged, and condoms are mandatory. Women may enjoy all the
orgasms they like, of course.

There is no after-care, nor any follow-up, and they prefer to have NO communication with their male visitors.

 In a nutshell:

Misleading Advertising

Serious, unpleasant ladies W/O A SENSE OF HUMOR

Unprofessional and uninformed staff
No concept of "after-care"
No desire to communicate with apologetic visitors.

Short-changed playtimes - about 45 minutes - or longer - per hour paid.

They ARE a business contrary to their web pages and will usher you out if you can only afford $100/hr or less, (or probably, anythong less than $175/hour)

There is no privacy, your name and Driver's License  info is recorded. including your picture -

They do not have any public blogs or forums, esp. on the largest related site: Fetlife.

ALL of their competitors in the SF Bay area are in a different league, and 100% professional, give extremely good value, AND ALL THE OTHERS IN THEIR TYPE OF ENTERTAINMENT ALL HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 02/06/2013 09:46 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/fantasymakers/el-cerrito-california-/fantasymakers-unprofessional-uncivil-arrogant-uncommunicative-misleading-advertising-1010135. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

About as straight forward as it gets

AUTHOR: Chuck - (USA)

 I have been frequenting Fantasy Makers off and on for over 15 years. My experience has been extremely consistent across the board. Not only are the people pleasant over the phone, they have been exceedingly pleasant in person. I have seen dozens of different women and they have been flirtatious, beautiful, and extremely fun. Never once have I had a negative experience and I have never been asked to leave. I have even developed friendships with a few of the women outside of the play house. Lorett has been nothing but kind and informational and she is a staple of the BDSM community. I can only assume that the original complaint arose out of a bad attitude or offensive behavior. By the looks of his posts, he is likely angry that he wasn't getting more than legally allowed. He seems to feel entitled.

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#2 Author of original report

By All Means - VISIT THEM! (but read etc first)

AUTHOR: - ()

Although I doubt that they will let you visit them without a $ committment,

I strongly suggest that males of all ages visit them AFTER reading my report,

and asking around the SF Bay area re The Citadel, Kink.com, etc. 

Let the buyer beware. (Remember they take a copy of your CDL)


I stand by assertions, which have never been rebutted. As I mentioned,

despite profuse apologies I offered for a presumed mstake on my part,

(changing the dom a few days before) they never respionded or rebutted

or much less apologized


If you are a woman, you are likely to be treated vey diffeently han a male.


In 4 decades + researching and experiencing "the scene",

I always had a good, even profound experience ELSEWHERE, and have not encountered

the level of arrogance, rudeness and lack of care, in this area of very sensiive work,

that I did at fantasymakers.


Contrary to Lorret's assertions, I am not hiding, and am easily reachable at this email for commnications:



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#3 REBUTTAL Individual responds

The Proof of the Pudding

AUTHOR: Lorrett - (USA)

I keep getting drawn back into this unfortunate matter by emails from people who were almost frightened off by this person.  He posts repeatedly, in various places, under several names, but his style is unmistakeable.

My style is equally distinct.  I offer one name to our fetish-interested public, and one face.  I'm proud of the women who over the last 25 years have called themselves Fantasy Makers.  Most of the men and women who have visited the Playhouse as clients have behaved as gentlemen and ladies, and many have remained friends and supporters for years.  Deeds speak; words echo.

If you're nervous about meeting us, I understand.  Playing out intimate fantasies with a stranger is nervous-making.  If it helps, you can look at the reviews we've posted on our site, but you'd be right to say they're all positive, and that too is prejudicial.  We're not perfect -- sometimes we drop the ball -- but consent, communication and respect for others are the rule around here -- for everyone.

There's an old saying about the proof of the pudding. 

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#4 Author of original report

reply to Lorrett

AUTHOR: dofaust - ()

Fantasy Makers goes out of its way to suppress or deny the truth about their playspace. Or, simply, lie.r

The botttom line for prospective clients of fantasymakers is "let the buyer beware. Do your homework!

One may notice that they allow NO feedback by their clients on any of their fetlife or Tumblr pages, contrary to what Lorrett implies. 

I said what needed to be said in the first year or so after my visit there. This rebutall is my last word on the matter, unless someone wishes to contact me personally. I too reserve the freedom to tell people in the Scene just what my impressions were of fantatsymakers. Lorrett may say what she wants about me, but my persona is well-known among many in the scene, and L just makes a fool out of herself, by claiming I am rude or ungentlemanly.

I simply object to their bold exploitation of naive newbie males. However, I have also been told by pros that that

is a very common practice among the worst of the playspaces, and NOT of experieced pros. Pros actually WANT repeat business, and they point out to me that L's denials and lies are obviously counter-productive for her business. She should do the right thing, and rebut properly, and CHANGE her business practices.

There is one point which is clear, On which Lorrett and I seem to agree. I never expected, nor does fantasymakers provide any traditional sexual contact. That is assuredly _not_ why one would visit fantasymakers. And, they go to great lengths (undisclosed beforehand, as I mentioned) to prevent male ejaculation. But, _not_ so for their female clients.

Lorrett CAN not nor WILL not deny any of my specific allegations. I invite any _male_ to visit, preferably a newbie, and verify my assertions. Its as simple as that.

Lorretta chose to simply lie more, than rebut anything specific in my complaint:

1. 2-3 SHORT emails that I sent to a lady there, and one other, _before_ visiting, asking for another lady, does not constitute "inundating". Especially since my initial phone and email contact there was with a non-native english language speaker, and was not especially articulate.

2. I changed my mind, BEFORE visiting, and arranged a meeting with a more experienced entertainer there. Lorrett knows this, so I am mystified why she should lie so brazenly about that.

The day after my (shortchanged) 1-hour play session, I attempted to correspond with the lady who had been with me. She did not respond, and she should  and could certainly have done so, since it was evident that she was not interested in any "aftercare" the day before....and indeed had revealed all the rules to me ONLY after I arrived and paid in advance, as I have said in my complaint. 

3. I have NEVER discussed these matters with Lorrett's acolytes, as she claims. What good would it do? They are devoted to her, and turn a blind eye to the way she exploits men, esp. newbies.

4. I reiterate, test my assertions, if you are a man, and make an appointment beforehand, and discover, that they will NOT talk but very little beforehand, and that they will NOT reveal the rules of the house until AFTER one has paid the non-refundable fees.

I stand by all my assertions, so let any newbie male prospective customer  feel free to contact me either here or by ordinary email if they doubt me, and then let them attend fantasymakers, or, have someone they know do so, under the same conditions: a newbie male, who like me, had done insufficientt homework, and was ripe for exploitation.

EVERY single professional (female, and male) I have talked to, worldwide, about my experience there, the past 5 years+, is appalled, and assures me that that their business practices are unacceptable - even ridiculous - and very rare among encounters between pros and newbies. Worldwide.

The correct response from the lady I was with, AND Lorrett, in the days after the session, _should_ have been to simply explain and discuss their behaviour to me. They are scared to death of doing so.  However, in their line of work, common sense suggests that has never been done in the many thousands of years similar play has been exchanged for compensation.

I repeat, if you have the $ to gamble, test my assertions yourself. If possible.

If Lorrett will lie so straightforwardly as she did in her rebuttal, I suspect she will continue to do so.

Those who are interested and doubt any of my assertions should pose more questions to me. I am easy to find on the net.

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#5 UPDATE Employee

I'm sorry he doesn't like us.

AUTHOR: Lorrett - ()

I'm Lorrett.  I have served the Fantasy Makers (an association, not a traditional business) as a housemother/coordinator since 1990.  Thousands of people have visited the Playhouse, and many are regular visitors. We have an excellent reputation -- in fact, this "Sidney" person cited that when he started inundating a few of the ladies with e-mail in 2009.

The idea, it seemed, was to get us to correspond with him -- cheaper than paying for  session time.  Among his other thrifty ideas was to ask ladies to trade their time and skills for a piece of his art work.  Sadly, there were no takers.  He finally, in 2009, got an appointment with one of the ladies.

The lady made a special trip to the Playhouse to accommodate his schedule.  When he arrived, he brushed his appointment aside and demanded to see another woman, saying she was "more experienced" (remember, he knew nothing about any of us!) without so much as offering a small cancellation donation to the woman who'd accommodated him.  He then tried to micromanage the "more experienced" lady until she threatened to end the session.

This was followed by another barrage of e-mail, very hostile, some of it to me.  I tried to explain and mediate, and he said he "apologized" to the ladies --  then started bad-mouthing us to every social resource in town -- while continuing to beseige us with e-mail messages until we 86d him.  We stopped responding to him, but it only made him more aggressive.  He even confronted my Sensei at a public event and demanded that he "make Lorrett answer my e-mails"!

I dislike fights.  I've tried to turn the other cheek for 5 years, but he's still at it. The Ripoff report isn't the only site he's used for his cowardly attacks, using a number of names,  The things he says about our session rate, our "policies", our demanding identification, etc., etc. etc., are simply not true.  He's dishonest and dishonorable, and has made people nervous about meeting some lovely women.  If he wants my attention, he has it -- it's time for this to stop.

I think it's unfair, when so many people say good things about us, to take the word of this one person.  He uses other names, but his writing style is as distinct as my own.  If you have read this review, I invite you to look at our website.  Links to the FetLife page we "don't have"and  our Tunblr page are on the home page, and many of the ladies have social and/or professional web pages.  If you like the same things we do, I invite you to call and schedule a visit us.  We provide only safe and legal erotic fantasy -- we don't engage in any form of sexual contact with clients -- but we do everything else that's fun.  You can have all the orgasms you'd like, so long as you don't require our direct intervention.

Further, if you decide that "Sidney"s review is misleading, I would truly appreciate it if a few of you found a discreet way to post your own rebuttal, and say so.  The ladies I work for deserve better press.  Thanks much.


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