• Report: #670503
Complaint Review:

Income Builders International

  • Submitted: Sat, December 11, 2010
  • Updated: Mon, April 11, 2016

  • Reported By: mkm — Oakland California United States of America
Income Builders International
3030 Starkey Blvd, Suite 270 New Port Richey, Florida United States of America

Income Builders International False Promises and Scams Beyond Belief New Port Richey, Florida

*Consumer Comment: I was involved with this group in 99-00

*General Comment: Hey 566Dave: you have not answered me!

*Consumer Comment: Hmmmmm.....

*Consumer Comment: 566Dave Do Your Homework

*Consumer Comment: Bernie Dohrmann and integrity?

*General Comment: CEO Space is Obvious BS

*General Comment: CEO Space is Obvious BS

*Consumer Comment: Wow... quite the fishing expedition

*Author of original report: Real Clarification

*Consumer Comment: Still fishing?

*Author of original report: CEO Space and Income Builders Are One and the Same

*Consumer Comment: This is laughable

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Although I'm just now getting around to writing about IBI, I felt it necessary to let others know exactly what happens during the course of interacting with this group. I'd also suggest you check out the comments made at:
as that persons comments are very much in line with my thoughts.

I was co-owner of a small restaurant when approached by a "friend" to attend a local meeting where Bernie Dohrmann was going to speak to business owners who wanted to take the next step of expansion. Dripping with sincerity and making promises to set us up with a investors, a great franchise company, and all the assistance we would need, we decided to take the plunge. We signed up for the $6,000 class, booked our hotel, took 4 days away from our thriving business and traveled to Los Angeles.

Should have listened to my ex-business partner who after the first day with the IBI group,wanted to leave. In fact a major confrontation occurred with IBI staff about what a ripoff the program was. They took me aside, again making their vast promises and convinced me to stay. It did however take considerable time and effort to convince my partner to remain but was done so with even more promises of helping us achieve our goal. Blah, blah, blah.

We sat through numerous day and night super teaching sessions that were really focused on about 30 minutes of good advise for the audience, but are really intended to "sell" the person speaking or their product. The majority of speakers at these events charge a great deal to share their knowledge, and there's nothing wrong with that, unless of course that when you agree to work the program you are promised easy access to these masters when you enroll in the program. They are all very smooth speakers, and that's how they make their money, big conventions bring big rewards.

Over the course of the next 1 1/2 years we poured our souls into the development of our successful restaurant into a franchise. We did exactly what was suggested at three of the IBI events we attended; hired many of the affiliates and even connected with Mr. Dohrmann's associate Don Boroian at FranCorp in Chicago. We spent over $40,000 between FranCorp, logo development with another IBI member, and other development expenses.

Oh, Mr. Dohrmann apparently wasn't aware, or neglected to tell us, that Mr. Boroian was under FBI investigation for bilking clients out of money and not fulfilling his obligations (which is exactly what he did to my company). Francorp was continuously promoted at the IBI events as being top of the line for anyone who wanted to develop a franchise, pure malarkey. FranCorp was hired to write and produce our business plan, which when presented to us on the day we were to use it to raise capital.

Our supposed fabulous restaurant franchise plan ended up to be a plagiarized plan about a real estate development company. I made every attempt to work with Mr. Boroian personally which failed miserably and when I made numerous requests to be reimbursed my thousands of dollars Mr. Boroian simply replied, you can sue me in Chicago if you want your money.

Scramble time as now with the major amount of my inherited money invested in IBI and their resources that were going to help us move forward, I had to find another franchise development company that would take our project on. Thanks goodness for IFranchise and Mark Siebert, an man of integrity who worked tirelessly to provide us with a fantastic business plan.

Back to IBI to introduce the Franchise business plan with Mark Siebert of IFranchise to investors at IBI. Well, gosh, low and behold IBI staff's famous quote "we don't quit till you win" was not in their vocabulary when it came to them stepping up to the plate to help promote the business in any way. No introductions to investors as promised from the beginning, in fact what generally happened at this point was total avoidance by IBI staff.

It was then I took a good hard look around the event and wondered how many others were attending and not getting ANY satisfaction or business development. I don't really have any numbers to tout about the ratio of successful businesses, some have been without a doubt. BUT that ratio compared to the 10's of thousands that have attended to make IBI owners rich is low in comparison, unless they can truly prove otherwise. And please don't tell me they shouldn't have to track the success stories, that's their business, promoting successful business and entrepreneurs.

And the rest of the story? Running a restaurant day to day, 6 days a week and trying to raise capital for the franchise caused more toll on me than I could handle. And since IBI failed miserably to live up to their never ending promises, I couldn't hang out at their events focused on raising money through their tuition expenses. Sold the restaurant, as the "taste" IBI left with me about franchising made me learn to hate that particular business.

I'm going to suggest you check out the link I posted from ToyKeeper above as his report is much more detail than mine. In fact, that's why I wrote this report, before others take their time or money to support IBI or their affiliates, make sure you have an understanding you are simply not going to get the support that's promised over and over again.

If you want to develop your business or take it to another level, find a real mentor who will stick with you and guide you through the process. Talk candidly about the positive and negative impacts, the financial impacts, and most importantly the impacts to yourself.

Don't count on IBI to be there for you, they won't.

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 12/11/2010 11:34 AM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/income-builders-international/new-port-richey-florida-34655/income-builders-international-false-promises-and-scams-beyond-belief-new-port-richey-flo-670503. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

I was involved with this group in 99-00

AUTHOR: leez - (USA)

I am not rebutted the complaint. I feel for this person. I too dealt with this company and I agree that you are kind of scammed. Yes there are some successes but you have to be able to do the scammy thing to get folks to invest in your company and not deliver.


I wanted to believe in this organziation and  Bernie is  a very smooth operator. I did the deal I helped folks with their business etc. Many were only interested in my giving them money. I was raised to be honest and I could not take money from people unless I knew that the investement would have high percentage of paying back. They tried to teach people to fund-bust to get funds to go to the conferance. THe conferance will be wonderful and you meet great people but in the end you are left in the dust holding the bag. I went into great debt trying to follow by WOW. WOW was I dupped. 


Many fall away and think they are the failires. I think the dream of IBI is great but I would beware.


I still have dream of building my own business but we really need to know that it takes time and hard work.


I do not think they started all the comments listed in one of the rebuttals. The Oprah Winfrey Show was started in the mid 1980s. IBI started in 1991 to be precise. Some of those company's might be made their but I think many had the business already going and it got taken to the next level.

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#2 General Comment

Hey 566Dave: you have not answered me!

AUTHOR: Steve - (United States of America)

My comment has NOT been rebutted, because it is true.  Bernie has paid less than 6% of the court ordered restitution over the past 20 years.  Man of integrity?  Not in my opinion.

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#3 Consumer Comment


AUTHOR: 566DAVE - ()

Let me see....
Former SEC Prosecutors, Former SEC Chairman and Deputies, Former SEC Investigators - all members.
Lead Integrity Expert - Also a member of CEO Space and on Faculty.
25 Years of history with no legit complaints.
Thousands of hours of video testimony on their sites and many by big-name CEOs as well as smaller companies who certainly have something at stake w/r/t reputation.
25-year track record of success.
now this:  


Seems to be the only scam here is the above anonymous, "complaint".


No issue here.   Move along.

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#4 Consumer Comment

566Dave Do Your Homework

AUTHOR: HelloThereReally - ()

566Dave or Dan,

Perhaps if you were to actually do your homework and pull the history of the company, you might find that this company did hold their forums in L.A., it DOES cost $6,000 and your list of 'accuracy' is very laughable.

You think you are telling them all the FACTS.  Check your FACTS.

The list you boast of successes is a list of folks who had already created those items before going to IBI/CEOspace.  CEOspace has no claim to any of those items.

CEOspace did not derive PrePaid Legal or Isagenix (learn to spell names if you plan to use them), and more than half your list is not their claim to fame.

All I can say is, "WOW! You drank too much Kool-Aid."

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#5 Consumer Comment

Bernie Dohrmann and integrity?

AUTHOR: Steve - (United States of America)

Bernie was convicted as stated by another. He spent time (finally) in prison. I think it was 27 months. He was ordered to pay $1,034,000 in restitution to his victims, many years ago. This man of "integrity" has only paid 5.6% of the amount due. Yes, he still owes almost a million dollars to his many victims. My father was one of his victims, but he died almost twenty years ago. No interest is accumulating to the victims or he would owe MUCH more.

Men of integrity own up to their mistakes AND pay the consequences. His defenders claim that he is very successful. If so, he is a shyster. If he does not have the money to pay his victims, he is not successful! Your choice: which is he?

I am working with my Congressman to determine why the US Justice Dept. and the US Attorney are not making a better effort to collect this money.
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#6 General Comment

CEO Space is Obvious BS

AUTHOR: Former impacter - (U.S.A.)

"Berny" Dohrmann, the founder of IBI and CEO Space, has a long history of illegal fraud and deception.  In 1975 he was convicted of securities fraud and went to jail for his role in U.S. Tank Car Corp., which sold nonexistent rail cars to investors.   He served time in 1978 for fraud relating to diamond sales and in 1995 he was convicted on 16 counts of criminal contempt in connection with his defunct financial planning firm,  Invest America.
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#7 General Comment

CEO Space is Obvious BS

AUTHOR: Former impacter - (U.S.A.)

"Berny" Dohrmann, the founder of IBI and CEO Space, has a long history of illegal fraud and deception.  In 1975 he was convicted of securities fraud and went to jail for his role in U.S. Tank Car Corp., which sold nonexistent rail cars to investors.   He served time in 1978 for fraud relating to diamond sales and in 1995 he was convicted on 16 counts of criminal contempt in connection with his defunct financial planning firm,  Invest America.
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#8 Consumer Comment

Wow... quite the fishing expedition

AUTHOR: 566DAVE - (United States of America)

I'm defendant because they do follow through on their word.

CEO Space is the most high-integrity organization most will ever know.

That's not me speaking, there are many unpaid and unsolicited celebrities, high-powered CEOs and VIPs who state this.  Would they put their reputations on the line if it weren't so?

Even in this video which features America's most recognized authority on Integrity:

You are simply on a fishing expedition and it's blowing up in your face.

I feel sorry for you.

I'd offer to help you, but you seem entrenched in your wanting to cause damage where you cannot.
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#9 Author of original report

Real Clarification

AUTHOR: mkm - (United States of America)

Please don't rebuttal unless you reread my first filing. I would think you would be "responsible" enough to do so since you are so adamantly a defendant of CEO Space. You have obviously missed the point that they make great promises and then don't follow through with their word.

My restaurant was very successful while operating, and continued to do so until after expending multiple amounts of energy and financial resources into the "promise" IBI would stand beside us until our franchise was developed. We worked diligently with IFranchise, after discovering by ourselves that Mr. Dohrmann's direct connection with FranCorp was involved in FBI investigations for fraudulent business activities.

IBI verbally committed to assist us personally with raising capital, and never once introduced us to any financial financial resources, in house or out. In fact, the majority of business people attending the forums were seeking funding, not providing nor even searching for potential investments. And, I'll add to that the people on our "home team" were all faced with the same situation.

I am not stating or denying that a very small percentage of the attendees at CEO Space might obtain fulfillment through CEO Space.

I am saying that if as many businesses succeed as what the founder(s) claim then why not openly provide the percentages of the successes to the number of attendees?

Taking full responsibility for my business is mine, and I did sell the single restaurant for a profit. What didn't happen was IBI's participation in the manner they verbally and consistently promised.

Again, I'll comment that the CEO Space mentors are simply "vendors", making lots of money by being at a forum with easy access to a vast amount of business owners. The business owenrs who think that by paying for a service offered by these mentors believe they will receive the value of service that should be provided, which simply is not the case.

I'm sure you'll rebuttal and we could go back and forth continually, because you are devoted to CEO Space. My opinion differs to the opposite and I'm simply voicing my opinion. Now that that I have through several rebuttals and stated what I needed to say, I believe any business owner will weigh their involvement carefully.

Best of luck in your business.

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#10 Consumer Comment

Still fishing?

AUTHOR: 566DAVE - (United States of America)

The only one above that you got correctly is #2.

You ask me to identify the #1s and I will below even though you are being smarmy and posting anonymously.

What I find hilarious is that you don't mention any of the other successes but ask that the #1s get named.

#1 Pet Producte 2 years in a row:  StickySheets.com
#1 Music Product:  PianoWizard.com
#1 Education Product:  PianoWizard.com  (yes, two categories)
#1 Auto Safety Product - AutoTrend Magazine:  Tow Truck in a box.

The list is endless as far as successes.

The only reason that someone would not succeed is because they didn't put out the effort.

CEO Space grows businesses at a much faster pace in much less time and for far less than the rate a business is spending without it.

Two years and your business didn't increase?   That's amazing with or without CEO Space or IBI.  Pretty tough to do unless you are not trying.

Simply stated, don't blame others for your own lack of effort or action!

Be responsible.
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#11 Author of original report

CEO Space and Income Builders Are One and the Same

AUTHOR: mkm - (United States of America)

Sorry to disappoint you sir, but the entire statement made is true.

1.  Mr. Dorhmann founded both Income Builders and CEO Space, and they both meet in different locations for the "benefit" of attendees. IBI charged $6,000 for a lifetime membership, and maybe CEO charges a bit less, but not much I'll assure you.

2. IBI was not a "seminar" and operates under the very same principles as CEO: Super Teaching, SNAP, Meal Tables and Team Power, all glorified to represent possibilities for attendees and very little of it applicable.

3. My business was never "kicked out or a competitor" but rather a bona fide paying attendee who never received the assistance promised, even after attending for more than 2 years.

4. The "teachers" are making grand money by getting attendees to pay for minimal services which can be obtained through your local resources at a much better rate. Branding, patent attorneys, advice for start up corporation, legal mentoring, etc., are all overcharging at these forums. These "teachers" are attending to sell themselves and keep their pipelines full of paying students, far easier method.

Listing some of the companies that work in conjunction with CEO are those that are the same as listed with IBI. Many of the the CEO instructors were with IBI as well. Vince Molina, Maria Speth, Jill Lubin, Lisa Nicholas, Bob Proctor, and more. The average attendee doesn't have access to these people, unless and I'll state this clearly, your checkbook is in hand for their services and you continue to keep writing the checks.

Chicken Soup for the Soul - Barry Spilchuck was one of the many authors, who developed a company through IBI, "Let's Talk" which eventually went bankrupt, even after raising hundreds of thousands of dollars at IBI.

DebCo, another company who raised substantial at IBI was headed by Nicholas Sconza. Their funding was raised at IBI and then disbanded.

Laser Shield, well when you are the son of the man who heads IBI you certainly have a "leg up" with funding sources and contacts.

Please, don't list #1 Pet, Education, etc. Name it or don't claim it.

I stand by my remarks, once you leave the "forum" your teams don't have time for you, your connections with main resources leave you alone once your money has been spent, and you can't get help from the mentors you don't pay.

If CEO space truly accounted for successful businesses that went through their program, how many could they claim they had a hand or even a finger in at least taking to the next level. I'm sure not many as I was told they don't track those who don't stay in touch, wow, what a marketing strategy. Poll the successful and leave the rest to grovel.

If you are one of the few that are successful, congratulations.
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#12 Consumer Comment

This is laughable

AUTHOR: 566DAVE - (United States of America)

It's easy to spot the falseness of this report through the several innacuracies.

1) CEO Space meets in Lake Las Vegas, not Los Angeles.
2) CEO Space does not have courses that are $6000.  In fact, it's not a seminar, a workshop, or a course.
3) I have been a member for three years and have met the most high integrity people at CEO Space.  This must be written by someone who was kicked out, or someone who is trying to compete with CEO Space.

I will add the following that I find very true, very credible, and extremely accurate:

CEO Space is the world's oldest, largest & most successful network for CEOs, Entrepreneurs and Visionary investors.

CEO Space is an entrepreneurial training and world class business networking organization, providing MBA-level training and development and an immersion experience of cooperation that results in income acceleration through exponential business growth.   

CEO Space was founded by Berny Dohrmann, whose father was a mentor to Walt Disney, Napoleon Hill, Buckminster Fuller, Jack Kennedy, W. Edwards Demming, Earl Nightingale and many others. 

For the last thirty years, Dohrmann, whom the media refers to as "The Millionaire Maker" has been known as "Coach of the Coaches" ...Anthony Robbins, Mark Victor Hansen, Jack Cannfield, Lisa Nichols, Robert Allen, John Assaraf, Loral Langmier, Jay Abraham, Alex Mandossian, T. Harv Ecker, John Gray, Bob Proctor, Robert Kiyosaki, Les Brown and just about any other big name you can think of, including Founding Partners from elite consulting firms, Accenture & Booz Allen,  as well as head execs at companies like Starbucks, Nokia, Memorex, HSN, 3M, AT&T, ConocoPhillips, and many more.  He is now counseling the United Nations and many foreign nations with regard to turning around the global economic crisis via Cooperative Capitalism.

About a third of the members are investors, including millionaires & billionaires.  In the last two years, CEO Space generated over $6 Billion Dollars in funding for its members, while all the banks and venture capital firms were sitting on their hands. Investors love CEO Space for four main reasons, among many....  
1) Anonymity & Ability to get to know the principals intimately.
2) More quality deal flow in one place than anywhere on earth.
3) The opportunity to mentor and be mentored, no matter what level of one's stature.
4) The member companies are in a place where they have a lifetime membership with no annual dues and can get on-going advisement from the top business minds in the world.

Some of the success that you've heard of that CEO Space members have been responsible for include:

- The Cloud
- RIMM's Blackberry software Obama uses
- Microsoft's Lead Developer
- Chicken Soup for the Soul
- The Old Speghetti Factory
- Airborne
- The Secret
- The Oprah Winfrey Show
- "The View"
- 911 Locator Systems
- Bugle Boy Jeans
- LaserSheild
- Robert Kiyosaki's (Rich Dad/Poor Dad) "Cash Flow"
- Green Glider
- PrePaid Legal
- Isagenics
- Magic Fountain
- The first all green city on the planet
- DreamTools
- Prolong Super Lubricants
- The Old Spaghetti Factory
- The T.E.N.S. Unit
- The current #1 Pet Product
- The current #1 Education product
- The current #1 Automotive Product
- The current #1 Saftey Product
- The current #1 Music Product
- Hundreds of best-selling authors
- Emmy & Grammy Winners
- Leaders in nearly every single product and services category
- Thousands of others

There are videos at www.GlobalCEOspace.com

It's not just the hundreds of millions in funding generated every meeting at CEO Space, or the contacts you often can't find in one's home region.  Below is an outstanding piece of testimony be one of the founders of a leading University Entrepreneur Program.

"Having spent the majority of my 30-year career in entrepreneurship and having been a part of the founding of the University of Houstons Wollf Center for Entrepreneurship (which is today the number one collegiate entrepreneurship program in the Nation), I was blown away by the number of business concepts while at CEO Space that I have never heard before.  After returning from the Forum, I went over all my notes and marked the items that signified those that were new to me.  Based on all the notes I took during my 10 days there, 70% of what I heard from the faculty and mentors were issues that I NEVER HEARD BEFORE.

As a result, I have returned home with a whole new view of how I see the business world here in Houston.  I have more insight, more confidence and more knowledge that I know will propel me to new levels of success and the achievement of my vision.  And that vision is also on a whole new plateau.  My thoughts are coming from a higher plain and my personal business power is accelerated beyond my expectations.  I am thinking about business bigger than I have ever thought before and I have much more belief in my ability to make it happen.  I am so excited to exercise what I have learned so I can continue helping entrepreneurs at a new level.

Thank you CEO Space!

Dan Valdez
Entrepreneur, Advisor, Innovator"
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