Key Banking Ohio I have been a good customer of Key bank. I admit I did not research the bank well before deciding to open an account. In the last 3 months I Have been taking care of my parents and had not been watching the account as closely as I should have: I always had money going in and never worried about overdraft : But one day I started noticing my card got declined. Canton Ohio

 Again I will say first about my son and cutting the cord. The cord has been cut. He manages his own account. He came home to visit and as we were having dinner 2 months ago, he had to excuse himself from the table. He later showed me the bank hat sent him A text message asking if he made the transaction. He commented "capitalone360” is pretty good. I shouldn’t have to explain.

Another lady that had the same thing happen was told by the bank manager and I quote "I have to be careful what I give back. I don't want to get my hand slapped. They are watching me very carefully, I could lose my job. This is what happens when you count on funds available. No one knows how long pending is? Our available funds are different than your screen available funds. Just because it says available doesn't necessarily mean it's available.

Your online screen is different than mine. You made this mess, not Key. You are spending more than you are making (I am thinking -no you are taking more than I am making), fees-fees-and more fees. The harder & longer we work the more money they took. They have left us unable to pay our leases.” So again, this is the banks fault. Not mine.

My father certainly wouldn’t be taking my side nor my husband if I was in the wrong. They just wouldn’t. Again, when it happens to you...... and something will along your life ..... that isn’t fair whether it is in healthcare , bank etc Who will you blame? I take the blame for my mistakes but someone charging multiple charges on my card and like I said all they have to do is call is the number out beside the transaction. It’s invalid and if you google the number there’s tons of reports.

You can play the "What if" game until the cows come home. NONE of that is related to what you stated in your ORIGINAL report.

Which since you even seem to have forgotten was dozens of overdrafts you say were caused because you were a "victim" of a sneaker company putting charges on your account and you some how missing this fact for a singificnat amount of time. Enough time that you racked up over $3,000 in fees. Where once you found out you used numerous EXCUSES to try and get the bank to make an exception to at least get you some of your fees back. In all of this I really just wonder where your RipOff report is on that app.

Of course you don't "wish" bad intentions on people, but neither do we. That is what you seem to not understand. When you are told you are doing "bad" bookkeeping isn't wishing something on you, it is telling you what you are currently doing or have done is wrong. Again two totally different things.

You keep saying we don't know the entire story. You are right we don't because you have given us nothing but "What if's". The only thing that seems certain is that somehow based on your latest post you now apparently live month to month with checks but somehow didn't watch your bank account close enough that over a period of time you incurred over $3000 in fees, which would have been dozens of overdrafts. You also seem to have some thought that you must also manage your son's account who apparently is at a much better bank and at University, so he is definatly old enough to manage his own account. Perhaps for your own sanity it may be time to "cut the cord" and let him sink or swim by managing his own account.

As for this deposit you keep bringing up. I am not even going to try and guess what happened. Because I have no idea how you saw it when it stated it was "pending" or "posted", nor what changed in that overnight period. All I will say there is if they followed their "Funds Availability Policy" there is not much you can do. This includes cut-off times for deposits and how you make the deposit as well as the amount. Of course if you really think it is an ongoing issue. Why not do the exact same thing, grab hard copy receipts/screenshots showing you doing this step by step?

As for your research, you found 2 banks. Really..TWO and couldn't even remember the name of the second bank? All I can say is keep looking. By the way there is nothing wrong if a bank decides to not "reorder" transactions, the point is that they were not ordered to do it and it does NOT matter if you are managing your account.

We are at a point of dimisinshing return, I have made my comments it is up to you what you do with them which all indications are that you aren't going to change your accounting practices. So what ever happens hope it works out for you, and if you do ever eventually get them to credit the fees..congratulations and would be very glad that they did.

 How do you know what my degree is in or what university I graduated? Or my husband or father who are there for me and know every single thing ? My father just happens to be an attorney and I’m certain he has a lot more knowledge than you do. I posted this to make everyone aware of how banks do people. When I asked key bank why did a cash deposit post within 30 minutes and then the next day show as pending - she couldn’t tell me. She didn’t know. I don’t wish bad on people but for you telling me bad book keeping , etc #1 - you don’t know all the details and #2 I do hope something happens to you where the bank has an error on your banking and tells you to wait ten days as well as if you get a Check monthly that you depend on doesn’t come and you can’t pay bills. You don’t know me and like I said I posted this for all the other people who I have read that have been done like this to not let it keep happening. I did read that 2 other banks reported since the reordering of transactions were done that they would no longer be doing it. One was Huntington and I don’t recall the other one but it’s not fair to take people’s money period.

Poor spending habits.  I would also include bad budgeting as well.  You are trying to escape responsibility by blaming it on the bad old bank.  The responsibility will always be yours - the bank is nothing more than a facilitator between you and the people you deal with from a financial perspective.  Now, if you don't believe the bank is allowed to maximize their revenue, it's too bad because the law and the courts have consistently ruled that they can.  Any lawsuit with this rule as an argument is going nowhere.  The reason is that the bank has no idea when you transacted each debit - it only knows the date the transaction is made.  No it can't know more than that.  Violation of certain privacy laws.  From a computer perspective, the transactions are posted via a batch to your account.  Your merchant is then required within 24-72 hours to confirm the transaction before it is moved out of pending into permanent.

If you really are interested in avoiding all of the OD fees, there is a solution besides having more money in your account.  The answer is to stop using your debit card.  Go back to simply writing checks and paying in cash, especially if you plan on operating your account with a balance of less than $200 (my general rule) in your account.  The only reason then to use a debit card is for use at an ATM.  That will stop cascading overdrafts and will allow you to really determine what your spending NEEDS (as opposed to WANTS) really are.  I have never used a debit card ever for the purpose of spending money - I only use it at an ATM.  Now I also have a credit card, but that transaction provides greater leverage for me as a consumer, if the services or goods I pay with a CC, are not to my satisfaction.

No one here who has commented works for this or any other bank, nor are we shills.  We simply have more experience in these matters than you do.

 Did you read the lawsuit ? I did and that’s what they are doing. My husband and I witnessed a cash deposit at the atm go from posted to the account within 30 minutes . The next day it went to pending while it still let transactions go through and then charged another fee . This is not something that has gone on the whole time I have banked at key . Apparently it’s been for 2 and a half months however. What if they did you wrong? Let’s just say they made a mistake with your account? And they tell you it’s going to take 10 days to correct it. Let’s just say they did that to you because the cases I’m reading since they did this to me have been keys fault and it’s still 10 days so let’s just say it was you. How would you feel? But you aren’t in the situation so you cannot imagine what it is like .

 My husband googled the number and all you can find is people complaining that someone got their card online and it was a rip off . He also googled the phone number - same thing. So no only thing I have a subscription for is amazon. And it is a lot more than 4.99 to be a member once a year. The charges for 4.99 are scams.

You mentioned that there were small charges and then bigger recurring charges. By chance, did you try any "free trial, just pay shipping" samples. If so, this is probably what has caused the problem. It sounds good that you get to try the product for $4.95 or what ever the shipping is. However these offers all come with a short time (usually 14 days from order) time to cancel or you are "agreeing" to pay full price for the item AND be on the monthly subscription plan.

As far as the fees, I'm not sure the amount that Key Bank charges per overdraft, but if it's $35 that neans there have been at least 86 overdraft charges placed on your account. The bank is required to send notification for each charge either by mail or email, depending on how you requested to be notified.

This lawsuit you want to keep bringing up is irrelevant to your situation. Again, if you did as suggested and actually researched previous lawsuits you would find that the same thing mentioned in the lawsuit with this bank has been a subject of NUMEROUS lawsuits with just about every major(and many minor) banks. Again in each of those cases the fees or posting order has NOT been determined to be illegal. Even when the Federal Government The only thing that has come out of this is more discloure..which I can guantee you that you received. Yes that little booklet of all of their terms do actually mean somehting.

So if you are hoping that this suit will be the silver bullet to bring down this or any bank, you are going to be very disapointed.

But again, I guess we do bad book keeping?????? Because we write it down as we spend it????? Not as they process it???

Yes, if people woudl actually manage their account and write down transactions as they occur so that THEY know what THEY spent when they spent it 90% of the "complaints" about banks would go away.  This tried and true method of using a register worked for decades before Online banking, so why would you do something different?   Don't worry I can here you now, but online banking shows you your current balance and transactions. NO...it shows you what the bank has received. There can be transactions that may not show up for a few days due to reasons beyond the control of the bank. There are items such as checks and ACH transactions that also may not post immediatly. But if you useing a written register you know what you spent the moment you spent it.

It is IMPOSIBLE to reorganize transactions in such a way to cause you to overdraft if you have not spent more than you have avaiable. But if you don't believe me look at this example.

Say you have a balance of $85 in your account.  Take these 6 transactions and organzinze them in any way you want. Can you get them to equal to more than $85 that would cause you to overdraft?

$30.14, $29.72, $12.33, $8.21, $3.02, $1.08

But all of this is again irrelevant because none of it applies to your initial RipOff.

 The ONLY reason anybody gets overdraft fees is because they do not keep a register with a running balance updated every time the account is used and they do not even bother to balance the account each month. The whining about what order debits are posted is nothing more than industrial strength BALONEY!

When the money is there, the order DOES NOT MATTER!!! Learn how to manage a checking account! Being there are so many people who won't keep records and cause OD fees, banks should increase the fees to $100 each in order to profit from the dummies! Let me save you some effort. Because you just can't stand the truth, don't bother saying, "You must work for them!" I'll be nice and tell you ahead of time, I don't!!!

I didn't say you had 20K I said IF that is what you are saying...two different things.  And no I do not now or have I ever worked for this or any bank, although if you look around this site you will see I've been accused of working for just about every bank.

But Regardless of the amount the reality is that if these were truly "small" amounts it would have had to have been a lot of small amounts over a long time.  Neither of which you have stated any specifics so all we have to base the comments and suggestions on is what you have posted.

But if you even google key bank overdrafts ; it is amazing that all the negativity and it’s hard working people just trying to do banking. I have never in almost 40 years seen a bank do this.
- Actually just google any bank about overdrafts and you will see the same thing.  You don't even have to go to google, just look at this site.

he does shop at Aeropostale a lot but they sent him an alert and do once in a while: they have never once treated him like I have been treated.
- As stated there was something in that transaction that caused them concern.  I am not even going to remotely try to explain an exact reason, because only they know.  But there is NO guarantee that any bank would have alerted you in this same situation you are having. 

As for treatment, did he go months without noticing invalid transactions? Did he incur over $3,000 in overdraft fees. If not then you are right they have never treated him like that because he hasn't(thankfully) had that situation happen to him.

One final thing about the Class Action Lawsuits.  Realize that just about every major bank has had multiple Class Action Lawsuits on the same thing over the years.  Not once has any court made the fees or posting order illegal..NOT A SINGLE ONE.  So don't think that the suit you are talking about is the Silver Bullet that will finally bring the banks down, because it won't  As for any settlment, also realize that the only ones who make money in these suits is the lawyers.  Where each person got enough back in the settlement for a nice dinner(about 2 overdraft fees).  Regardless of if they had 2 or 200 overdrafts.

So again good luck and I do hope it works out for you, and the reality is that we are just giving you the facts even though you may not like to hear them

 I did not say I had 20 k I’m the account And you must be a shill for Key it seems like because you certainly are taking up for them. I am not disclosing all of my business on an open website. I am only stating facts. And as for my sons account: he does shop at Aeropostale a lot but they sent him an alert and do once in a while: they have never once treated him like I have been treated. You are right . You don’t know the whole story. But at least I have proof on emails they sent: they say one thing and then say something totally opposite. So correct; you do not know everything .

Your example at the end is invalid and contradictory to what your claim is. Your initial claim was that you had invalid charges on your account and you failed to notice them until you got up to about $3,000 in fees not even including the actual OD amount. This has NOTHING to do with posting order or holds on the account.

If you are saying that these invalid charges wipped out an entire 20K bank balance and put you into over $3,000 in just fees your claim that they were small amounts seem very unlikely. Unless these small amounts went on for a much longer time than you are indicating or your idea of small is not what most people would consider small. I do feel for your situation and do hope it works out for you, it just seems that there may be a lot more here if you did get it to this point.

Even though I suffer with rheumatoid arthritis and not making that as an excuse as I know several people suffer and still have to do things. Point is - I let them know as soon as I was able to that these bogus websites were apparently being charged
- Actually yes you are making it as an excuse as there really is no provision that says you are given extra time to dispute it if you have medical issues. So you are using your condition to try and get them to make an exception.

My son made a decision to choose capital one 360 and that is by far the best decision as I spoke with him and he said capital one 360 will even send him text once in a blue moon to say hey did you make this charge ?
- That's great. But the alert was not generated by the alerts he had set up. Something with the transaction did not match what they saw as a regular transaction for him and their fraud department questioned it. But in your case you say you shop on-line, they have no idea you are not into sneakers. So if a charge comes through do you really expect them to question every single purchase you make? Then if you don't dispute it and more charges come through from that company what would give them an indication it is a fraudlent transaction since you apparently didn't dispute anything up until then?

I didn’t have sufficient funds for whomever decided to get my card number and shop. But yes I’ve always had money being deposited constantly into the account. Cash via atm I thought that was a automatic post to your account: At least it was thirty minutes after I deposited it. Yet , it went from posted to pending the next day: How does a cash deposit go from posted to pending? I take care of 3 households . Mine , my father and my son. So what if that’s irrelevant? I do the right things by people including the banks. But if you even google key bank overdrafts ; it is amazing that all the negativity and it’s hard working people just trying to do banking. I have never in almost 40 years seen a bank do this.

Citing the attempted overdraft lawsuit is irrelevant to your situation and will not proceed.  Banks are allowed to reorder transactions anyway they wish - it is perfectly legal and courts have already ruled in a number of cases that they can.  Other banks have settled not because the practice is illegal, but that the disclosures regarding transaction processing were insufficient.  Disclosures were fixed years ago, and that was that.  In the case of BofA, many lost thousands on bank fees, yet in the class action settlement, each received...$66...10 years after the initial lawsuit was filed.  Why?  Because the judge determined the settlement exclude any amount pursued regarding the legality of the fees - only the lack of disclosure.  The reality is this:  if you have sufficent funds in your account, then it becomes irrelevant how a bank orders transactions.  It is only when you as an account holder decide to either leave insufficient funds in the account, or if an account holder fails to track their transactions properly that this practice hurts you.  As I told a class I used to teach years ago - bank fees discriminate only against those who fail to account for their funds.

So please don't hang your hat on the idea that the fees are illegal because of the rearranged transactions - they are not.

The reason you cannot close the account is (a) because the fraud case is ongoing, and (b) you intend to close the account and not reopen a new one at the bank.  If you were going to continue with this bank, then closing and opening a new account would not be an issue.  But if you're closing the account completely, most banks will hold your funds for as much as 30 days while the investigation is ongoing, and then remit funds to you at the end of that period.  That's pretty standard across the industry as well.

 Correct- they give you thirty days Jim . But let’s just say you kept at least 20k in your account. And let’s say your father had bypass surgery. Even though I suffer with rheumatoid arthritis and not making that as an excuse as I know several people suffer and still have to do things. Point is - I let them know as soon as I was able to that these bogus websites were apparently being charged. My son made a decision to choose capital one 360 and that is by far the best decision as I spoke with him and he said capital one 360 will even send him text once in a blue moon to say hey did you make this charge ? Text y for yes or N for no. I’m set up for alerts to but I never once got a text. And yes it’s configured correctly. And correct about closing the account. I realize that needs to be done. When I walked inside the branch that day , explained all this to the key bank relationship manager - his response was that he would make sure the disputes were in but specifically said he could not do anything else as it was up to the fraud department. Now last night I’m told via email - it’s up to the bank inside at the location. This is why it’s good to have things in writing. I’ve been told so much bs. And key is is in a soon to be lawsuit for customers who have been with them since 2011. I have not been there that long but it goes to show you these practices aren’t fair. And I quote and this is the same thing they did to me not even counting the disputes which is why I have 3k alone in overdraft fees. "it is alleged that Key Bank re sequences debit card transactions to maximize overdraft fees.

Consider the following example: Time 1: You have $100.00 in your bank account. Time 2: You use your debit card at Starbucks for $20.00. Time 3: You use your debit card at the gas station for $5.00. Time 4: You use your debit card at the grocery store for $105.00. Time 5: Key Bank reorders the debits and posts the latest occurring $105 debit first, and then charges an overdraft fee. Key Bank then posts the $20.00 debit, and then charges a second overdraft fee. Key Bank then posts the $5.00 debit, and charges a third overdraft fee. If the bank would have posted the debits in order in which they actually occurred, you only would have incurred one overdraft fee. Instead, you are stuck with three. The bank's practice of reordering debit transactions constitutes an unlawful deceptive trade practice. "

I guess it didn't happen to you or either you work there, or are just a plain shill for key bank.  But look at their social media.

Look at the article the cleveland newspaper did on them.  It is a shame.  And the current lawsuit is focusing on (1) processing transactions that overdraw customers’ bank accounts without informing customers that overdraft fees would be applied; (2) undisclosing overdraft protection; and (3) the systematic practice of processing transactions without regard to chronology for purposes of maximizing banking service fees (e.g. when multiple debits occur on the same day, processing larger debit transactions first so that an account is depleted and overdraft charges can be assessed on multiple subsequent transactions).  Among other possible causes of action, these practices potentially violate state breach of contract law, the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing, as well as the applicable state Unfair Trade Practices Act, and Consumer Protection Act.

But again, I guess we do bad book keeping?????? Because we write it down as we spend it????? Not as they process it???

All banks (not just this one) give you as much as 30 days to dispute a transaction.  Once brought to the bank's attention, they would have closed down your account, and opened a new one in its place without an issue (I mean you would have to go into a branch, but that's hardly an inconvenience if there is fraud on an account).  If you fail to dispute or otherwise flag a transaction as fraudulent in 30 days, the implication is that you've accepted the transactions as real.

Who stated you can’t do anything online due to privacy but put yourself in my shoes.  There is no privacy online.

I’m not some sort of person to try to con a bank . They can see how much money has gone into my account keeping it in good condition until the last 2 months - I admitted I had not been watching it closely because it is rare I have problems.  Banks don't make judgments.  This has nothing to do with you as a person.  A bank is nothing more than a facilitator between you, your money, and the people/entities you pay bills to, or receive money from.  It assumes your debit transactions are authorized by you - whether you authorized them, or not.  I mean what you said is a good thing, but is sort of irrelevant at this point.

The problem you have is that the account is negative and they can't close the account until the balance is at least brought to zero.  I understand that is probably easier said than done, and you may need to ask for help, but it is necessary.  Best of luck to you....