• Report: #997639
Complaint Review:

Lead Consortium

  • Submitted: Tue, January 15, 2013
  • Updated: Wed, January 16, 2013

  • Reported By: ScamCentral — Texas United States of America
Lead Consortium
Las Vegas, Nevada Las Vegas, Nevada United States of America

Lead Consortium Andy Ross, Pajama Man. Mr. Daytona, The Insurance Authority Dental and many other shell companies. Completely Lie To Agents About Commissions to be Earned Las Vegas, Nevada

*Consumer Comment: Thank You Ripoff Report!

*General Comment: Report: #997639 - Notice of Legal Action

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: Rebuttal to Andy's Rebuttal

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Rebuttal to Anonymous Post.

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Have/had a well-spoken recruiter who answered rebuttals well.  This is the new snake oil salesman.  No faults can be found online or other areas because they have such generic company names that always change.  They have professional answers to your questions.  The old adage of seeing a used-car salesman from a mile away doesn't apply as much in this day and age.  They just step up their game more with a white-collar image. 

Make claims agents will earn at least $50k a year working ten hours a week.  Any wise person may say that's bold and an exaggeration in this economy.  They insist no because these are leads that have contacted them and they can't fulfill the demand for enrollments.  However I have done insurance lines where the demand was there and the income claims were accurate.  So I continued with caution. 

Tons of material to learn.  Tons of audio to listen to.  Manager who contacted me after I went through countless hours of training was a fast-talking shady individual.  He said forget working 10 hours.  I need to put in 50 hours a week.  I told him that wasn't what the recruiter told me.  I told him I'd put in as much as possible but I was already angry because this was a gross misrepresentation. 

Andy Ross, the owner does a motivational 1-2 hour telephone conference soliloquy along with his management followers everyday who include Valerie.  He wants you to listen to it everyday.  He is bull-headed in saying that $100-200k is where the income to be made is at.  If it were true that would be one thing, but it's so off the mark it's laughable. 

I decided to go full time (at least temporarily) because of all the time I invested, his claims and managements support of his claims. 

Most prospects were flakes with no checking or credit card info, bottom of the barrel.  Had to manually dial numbers, no where to write notes, cheap CRM system.  Most leads were calling back an automated voice mail just to see who it was.  That's who we were calling.  Imagine skipping dinner and making callbacks just to get a hold of these individuals who are not good leads to begin with.  Dialing these numbers all day and night long. 

Those who did enroll would cancel or had insufficient funds.  Lucky if you got 2 deals a day which came out to about $20-$35.  And I'm familiar with this type of sale and can do well if it's even remotely genuine.  But this was a gross rip-off of agents.  $30 a day for full-time work comes out to $150-$180 a week.  There is no way in hell to make $50k or the $200k he's bragging about.  We could earn much more cleaning Burger King bathrooms. 

Then Andy and his team's excuse is that you need to pay for a dialer to automatically dial calls for the agent.  This was a couple hundred dollars a month and they want the agents to pay for it.  They would not budge on this.  We weren't even earning that much in commissions.  Then they want us to pay for licensing in different states.

But the worst part is they were weeks late to pay us and that was after outrageous amounts of fighting for them to do so.  These were deals that cleared with no charge backs.  When you're not paid, and you're thinning out their crap leads so that they can earn from your hard work, they can cherry pick and close those deals themselves whether you continue to work for them or not.  They're still making good money off you at no cost to them.  Not a penny.  And they probably earn up to five times more than our commission schedule (because they "provide leads") as well as residuals which we did not.

They have the audacity to say they don't like your attitude and tell you to leave because you don't want to work free of charge.  This is after the tens of hundreds of hours of free labor and learning all the material.  My check was so small that it would barely pay most Americans' utility bill for a month.  Really scummy. 

Steer clear of these clowns.  It's all one big lie. 

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 01/15/2013 10:59 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/lead-consortium/las-vegas-nevada-/lead-consortium-andy-ross-pajama-man-mr-daytona-the-insurance-authority-dental-and-man-997639. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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Updates & Rebuttals

#1 Consumer Comment

Thank You Ripoff Report!

AUTHOR: Phil Sheo - ()

I came across this report after seeing an ad for Pajama Man School targeting insurance agents on bizbuysell.com.  Before giving them my information, I thought it best to see what they are all about and ultimately ended up here.  My rebuttal has to do with what is posted here by the Andy Ross and/or whichever company of his in question.

First, his seemingly unhinged response is not what I would expect from a legitimate business.  In all honesty, all he did was lend credence to the person's complaint.

Second, who posts (albeit, poorly) what appears to be a legal summons, subpoena, or whatever it is?  The subpoena and or legal action alone should get the at-fault party's attention and likely induce a retraction of any statement on merit.  From a legal perspective it really serves no purpose.  I imagine it might strike some as a form of intimidation of those who might post their experiences. 

I would think that the best way to deal with these is not legal action but, rather, actually addressing the complaints before they get here.  Sure, some people will have unrealistic expectations, but often that is the result of failing to properly manage expectations in the first place.

Now, personally, as a potential customer of Pajama Man School, I take issue with the statement in the ad on bizbuysell.com, which states: "NO cold calls- leads will be contacting you."  That statement is deceptive or misleading as a dialer is involved in making outgoing calls.

I also take issue with the statement in the ad that states: "Recession-proof."  Seems a bold claim.  Having been an insurance agent in an executive capacity for more than 15 years, I can assure anyone that insurance is not recession-proof.  People lose jobs - insurance does not get paid.  People lose houses - insurance policy is cancelled.  Businesses go under - policies are cancelled.  Businesses have lower gross receipts - General Liability and Workers' Compensation premiums are lower.  Businesses have fewer employees - GL and WC premiums are lower.  
If I were the John Does in question in the posted legalese, I might consider a countersuit based on unfair trade practices resulting from deceptive or misleading advertising.
So, thank you Ripoff Report!  You kept me from making what I now believe would have been a mistake.  (Mind you, my cynicism is what brought me here in the first place. :) )
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#2 General Comment

Report: #997639 - Notice of Legal Action

AUTHOR: Ingle Elia PLLC - ()

To: ScamCentral

On or around January 15, 2013, you, an anonymous person, authored and caused to be posted on www.ripoffreport.com Report: #997639 titled Lead Consortium Andy Ross, Pajama Man. Mr. Daytona, The Insurance Authority Dental and many other shell companies. Completely Lie To Agents About Commissions to be Earned Las Vegas, Nevada.  Your report is viewable at the url http://www.ripoffreport.com/lead-consortium/insurance-agencies/las-vegas-nevada-56c31.htm

Your report contains the false and defamatory statement Most prospects were flakes with no checking or credit card info, bottom of the barrel.  Your report contains the false and defamatory statement Those who did enroll would cancel or had insufficient funds.  Your report contains the false and defamatory statement But the worst part is they were weeks lat to pay us and that was after outrageous amounts of fighting for them to do so.

Accordingly, on March 18, 2013, The Pajama-Man School, LTD, a Nevada limited liability company, and Andrew Ross and Andee Ross, husband and wife, filed a complaint against you in Maricopa County Superior Court.  The case was assigned Case No. CV2013-002714.   The complaint is captioned The Lead Consortium, LLC, a Nevada Limited Liability Company; The Pajama-Man School, LTD., a Nevada Limited Liability Company; Andrew Ross and Andee Ross, husband and wife v. John Does 1-3.  You are John Doe 2. The complaint alleges a cause of action against you for defamation and seeks damages.  The complaint also contains a cause of action seeking declaratory judgment that your report is
false and defamatory. 

Maricopa County Superior Court is located at 201 West Jefferson Street, Phoenix, Arizona 85003-2243.  You may obtain a copy of the complaint from the Maricopa County Superior Court.  You may obtain a copy of the complaint by request, in writing, made to the law firm Ingle Elia, PLLC at 2942 North 24th Street, Suite 114, Phoenix, Arizona 85016-7849.  Your request should be specific and reference the case caption and case number above.   

On April 16, 2013, The Pajama-Man School, LTD, Andrew Ross, and Andee Ross caused a subpoena to be issued to XCentric Ventures LLC, an Arizona Limited Liability Company.  XCentric Ventures, LLC manages the website located at www.ripoffreport.com.  The purpose of the subpoena is to discover your true identity.  The subpoena seeks to compel XCentric Ventures, LLC to produce all author information for the author of Report: #997639.  You may obtain a copy of the subpoena by request, in writing, made to the law firm Ingle Elia, PLLC at 2942 North 24th Street, Suite 114, Phoenix, Arizona 85016-7849. Your request should be specific and reference the case caption and case number above.     

You have certain legal rights, including a right to timely and anonymously file and serve a response to the subpoena.  Such response may include an objection to the subpoena.  You are encouraged to immediately seek legal advice regarding your rights.  Any response to the subpoena should be filed with the Maricopa County Superior Court at the address above and copies should be mailed to (1) Ingle Elia PLLC, 2942 N 24th St, Ste 114, Phoenix, AZ 85016-7849 and (2) XCentric Ventures, LLC C/O Maria Speth, Jaburg & Wilk, P.C., 3200 N Central Ave, Ste 2000, Phoenix, AZ 85012.

Please be further advised that two weeks from Thursday, May 16, 2013, Ingle Elia PLLC, as counsel for The Pajama-Man School, LTD, Andrew Ross, and Andee Ross, plans to file a motion with the Maricopa County Superior Court in the above captioned matter seeking an order compelling XCentric Ventures,
LLC to provide the information requested in the subpoena.

This notification is made in accordance with the requirements of Mobilisa, Inc. v. John Doe 1 et al., 217 Ariz. 103, 170 P.3d 712 (App. 2007).
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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Rebuttal to Andy's Rebuttal

AUTHOR: Agent55 - ()

I am not the person that posted the complaint you responded to. If you look around you'll see that I and one other person posted a complaint about you, Val and Matt late last year. (I forgot to add Ryan's name).

What prompted me to respond to your post is the fact that you asked "why didn't you contact me? I am always available".  You were not available when you closed the business right before Christmas last year. When we all logged on for the Monday conference call and there wasn't one. When we all emailed and instant messaged all of you asking what was going on and not one of you responded.

I was in contact with at least one other agent and he had the same experience that I did - NO RESPONSE from any of you.  So while you may pride yourself in your success as an insurance agent/business person - please don't lie and say that you are always available.

I and others understood that you could not pay our commissions in advance until you had fulfilled your chargebacks. It even made sense when you told us we would be moving on with a new carrier and products and then we would get paid, eventually, for our work.  I was one who was willing to wait - until you didn't have the common decency to keep us informed about what was going on.  You all just disappeared!  Not a word, not an email, nothing to the agents who had worked so hard and you claimed to appreciate so, so much.  Another thing you said right before you closed shop was "we all should have been working at another job at the same time we were working for you. That we shouldn't have been relying only on our job with you to feed our families".  Really? You were the one pushing us to work more and more hours taking calls with the promise of getting the "prescreened/telemarketed" leads as a reward for putting in the time. So how the heck could we work a second job Andy????

You want everyone to think you are a great business man who appreciates his agents. Your words conveyed that but your actions clearly did not. You lost the trust of the agents that worked for you, and I would guess that if any returned for your new business venture with Val, they only did so because they were desperate for a job.  Thanks for leaving us high and dry right before the holidays last year.

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#4 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Rebuttal to Anonymous Post.

AUTHOR: Andy Ross - ()

My name is Andy Ross. I became aware of this post recently and will therefore respond once, here, and now only.

I will try to not get emotional BUT it is difficult since you are attacking me personally, impugning my integrity, and besmirching the reputation I have established for the past eight years in the insurance business and over 20 years working from home or home based.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are a real person with a real gripe, and not a competitor or past associate with an agenda. But it is not that easy to do because I know truth and how we operate.

So, I must and do question the overall veracity of this post.

It would seem or it appears these posts are being used as personnel attacks due to the nature and style. For example, coded language like "scam", "lie", "shell companies", "deceitful", "non-payment" and other key phrases. Many of which appear in the heading for a reason. "Mr. Daytona" and "shell companies" ... well you know what? ... I have never heard of Mr. Daytona and we only have one core company with one DBA as it pertains to our virtual dental call center / agency. These statements are false. Once you see blatantly false statements in any document, it throws everything written in a document or a post into question. In other words, this is factual  information if it were true and it is not true! What good are any grey area comments or opinions if the clear facts are false? Our agency production, commissions paid, success and struggles are all well documented. We had a great team, great group of people, and I am grateful to all for their hard efforts and results. No personal attack will change my feelings about that!

One must ask, why anonymous? And conspicuously, there is one prominent name not mentioned. I can not help but wonder about the motivation here?

I love this country and the freedoms it affords. I will defend your right to express yourself in whatever fashion you desire, even anonymously. However, with those freedoms come certain responsibilities too. When you slander someone and memorialize it online forever, it is never a good choice. I have been in the insurance business for nearly nine years and have built and maintained a stellar reputation for which I am proud. I also have shared my successes, innovative systems and techniques with others and helped many become very successful too.

I am proud of what I have accomplished and what our team has accomplished. Although I am not taking credit for anyone else's success, I have tirelessly developed and shared systems that provide the vehicles and pathways to drive toward individual and team success. I will always try to over acknowledge each individual and their own success, as this is the most vital component. There are too many people to acknowledge here, but I am very proud of you! Always will be!

I do understand not everyone is successful. If this poster is real, then you know The Lead Consortium and The Insurance Authority were established to provide broker/producers an opportunity to market dental and other ancillary products without cost or 100% free. No money spent. No entry cost. No expense other than ones time, phone and computer.

We supplied your leads and marketing system. We do appreciate every agents time and participation.

However, when you do mass recruiting from the Internet, clearly you expose yourself to risk in many ways. We do not have regret because as a whole, we have met and worked with many wonderful people.

Many did very, very well, while others did not. As in all things, some people fail, that's just the reality. I wish it were not so. If you failed I am sorry. If you have an issue, call me. I'm always
available, always. I always answer my phone and respond to emails. If you have done business with me in any capacity then you know that. If you had a problem with something you would have certainly called me. Why didn't you? Why instead would you use this forum and this format to express dissatisfaction?

I will not apologize for my success, nor for being aggressive and always looking for new unique systems and innovations to improve and facilitate production. Some great, others less than great. But I'm in the arena working everyday trying to make good things happen.

Let the readers decide for themselves. My hope is an eight year reputation of success and top-production will not be trumped by an anonymous post.
Andy Ross
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