• Report: #223185
Complaint Review:

Liberty League International LLI

  • Submitted: Thu, November 30, 2006
  • Updated: Wed, December 13, 2006

  • Reported By:San Carlos California
Liberty League International LLI
14300 N. Northsight Blvd 210 Scottsdale, Arizona U.S.A.

Liberty League International Also Known As Liberty League International AKA LLI promotional schemes ripoff Scottsdale Arizona

*Consumer Suggestion: You must ask yourself this question.

*UPDATE EX-employee responds: A comment on Liberty League

*Consumer Suggestion: A messege from a former LLI top earner who left

*Consumer Suggestion: Their top income earners are quitting and leaving.

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I am victim of what I believe to be fraudulent activities performed by Liberty League International and its principals, Brent Payne & Shane Krider and their so-called advisors (Lisa and Bob Molina). From the very beginning I believe that I was mislead by the Molinas--pure intentional lies and deceit. I wonder how they sleep at night.

The owners of LLI allow their advisors to use bate and switch techniques to lure their victims, then once they get them where they want them, no one can ever get in contact with them.

L Molina solicits a web site that states one could make a six-figure income with as little as $2,000. The claim is that there is never any selling or telling. After I bought into the business idea, only then was I introduced to a product which I spent $1520.00 for. By purchasing the product this would put me in the position to sell it as well. Immediately after the 3-day return policy had expired I began to receive countless emails encouraging me, from the Molinas, to listen in on conference calls that would offer more products totaling approximately, $20,000.00.

L Molina, from the start was misleading, starting with false promises disclosed in the web site. I would later discontinue using a similar web site because it seemed inappropriate and misleading. I later found that their policy was not to take any leads from other associates, L Molina knew that I had spoken to another associate before speaking with her. So, in essence, she is out to manipulate and take from anyone--by any means necessary.

Believing that I could be successful, I would then spend $7,995.00 for a liberty conference ticket on 9/2004. I found out on 8/2005 that the tickets were no longer valid. Before purchasing the Liberty Tickets, (B Molina) told me that I could use the ticket anytime in the future, disclosing no deadlines. As an advisor and close friends with the owners, he knew more than he wanted me to know about the transaction. I believe that his omissions were deliberate.

On August 2005, a LLI receptionist informed me that I had missed the deadline. Mind you, even the receptionist was rude. Prior to my call to LLI, L Molina disregard any of my questions about the conference ticket, ignoring both my phone call and emails.

No deadline was ever disclosed to me however, either verbal or written, by neither Liberty League International nor Lisa Rae Molina and Bob Molina. The web site that I am now referred to for disclosure has been changed since I made the purchase. I believe that the advisors knew more than they revealed at the time but chose instead to profit $5,000.00 fraud of persuasion. Both advisors knew that I could not attend the conference immediately, as I was then committed to my studies and Bob Molina said to me that I would be in position to make more money and that I could use the ticket at a future date, indicating no deadline.

The advisors are allowed to use false materials to lure the public into purchasing products -- when only a business opportunity is advertised -- that is way above retail value. This is a mischievous and illegal pyramid scheme in the works. This is fraud of persuasion because on many conference calls the advisors openly admits to shunning the buying associates if all purchases have not been made totaling approximately $22,000.

Liberty League International promotes a business of integrity, but this is truly not the case.

After trusting the Molinas, giving them $10,000 of my hard earned money they would ignore any questions that I had. They made $6000. in commissions off my naive a**. I, like any other American want a good and prosperous life experience. It's just too bad that the US allow businesses like LLI to exist. Their product is just a copy of what has been said by many others for many years. They offer nothing new.

I filed a complaint with the State of Arizona, but not long after, I was denied any reimbursement because LLI believed that they could substantiate their claim for full disclosure of the 3 day cancelation policy.

Not until November 2006, I thought that it was at a total lost. LLI have been found guilty of violating the Arizona Consumer Fraud Act and the Arizona Promotional Schemes (pyramid) statute. And they have been ordered to pay restitution to everyone who filed a complaint with the Office of Attorney General or the BBB by June 17, 2006. I happen to be on the restitution list:) And will get the wholesale value of the products that I purchased.

All who remain part of that deceitful company will endure much disappoint in their lives. The Universe requires balance and the unjust will have to give back, eventually.

San Carlos, California

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/30/2006 10:15 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/liberty-league-international-lli/scottsdale-arizona/liberty-league-international-also-known-as-liberty-league-international-aka-lli-promotiona-223185. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Suggestion

You must ask yourself this question.

AUTHOR: Dan - (U.S.A.)

There is one very important question one should always ask themselves when looking to get started with a company. It can make all the difference. I don't care what company it is, the question remains.

Ask yourself: Would you really buy the company's products and at their prices as a regular customer just for your own personal use if there was no income or business opportunity attached to them?

I will use LLI as an example. In other words, would you be spending $8,000 or $13,000 per ticket and still pay more on international airfare to fly there, just go to to a motivational personal develpment seminar for 3 or 5 days? Would you buy the Beyond Freedom course at a book retailer for $1,500 when there are other publications from world class authors such as Anthony Robbins that cost $30 and cover the same concepts and ideas? Would you really? Just eliminate the entire business and income opportunity and just look at the products and their prices and ask yourself if you would still buy them.

If you honestly CANNOT say "YES" to the above question, you need to stop right there and look elsewhere. You won't be passionate about the products, you will just be buying them because of the income opportunity and won't see them as a valueable. You are simply buying to take advantage of an income opportunity someone presented you and your people will do the same. You won't be about the product, only about the money you might make.

But if you CAN honesly say "YES" you would, then that's probably a good company and a good product with value.

Tom from New York said,

"There is no way to sell such products to the public so money game is the true nature of the business, people sell to people who want to do the business; and people buy "products" because they want to invest into their business as the company or their advisors told them to act like a leader."

I absolutely agree with this statement. This goes hand in hand with the above question. The overpriced expensive LLI products would not sell well if there was no income opportunity attached to them, specially at their prices say at a local retailer. Most who buy such products are only doing it because of the income opportunity that was first presented to them by someone in the company. Most who buy them were not looking for personal develpment to begin with. They likely responsed to some type of ad about making money, not personal development products. Now they are just buying because of the money they might make.

Weather or not the LLI products have some value is not the question here. They might very well be useful to some people. But when compared to similar products, they are overpriced by comparison. Take the Beyond Freedom vs books by Anthony Robbins who is the real world leader of personal develpment and you see my point.
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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

A comment on Liberty League

AUTHOR: Tom - (U.S.A.)

There have been lots of negative postings on Liberty League and a few of the "made-it" guys defending for their company.

I'd put some fair comments here, as I have been there as a loyal associate and go through the stages that made me very clear on what I am writting.

1. Associate TrainingsPros: Liberty League is more of an inner community where as an associate you do feel the morales and friendly environment. The training teaches people to stay positive and behave like a successful, intergral people. In this sense it does help people a lot.

Cons: The trainings are mostly about mindset and highly spiritual. Nobody will drill down on details and real work of running the business. New associates are trained into believing if they act like a leader, and attract good things they will have results. The important marketing skills which are pertinent to success are normally mentioned, or quickly skipped.

Be careful on these mentality trainings. If over consumed, it could have some brainwash function that makes new associates more loyalful and believing into what they are doing will work out. Therefore don't blame your advisors. If it didn't run well, is because you didn't listen to the leaders and work hard on your mindset.

They didn't mention the other 2 factors that are also required for the success of one's business: marketing skills -- which they definitely don't want to tell you in a detail way how they advertise the business."If you know about where I advertise, then we all would be millionaires". This is probably understandable. But at least they should tell associate work on their marketing skills. How many of you have purchased bunches of personal development books and non marketing books while never made a penny.

The other factor, definitely is the company's fault why most associate couldn't make a sale -- products.

The other issue is training calls tend to utilize the psychology of people wanting to succeed and lure them into buying expensive products so the upline advisors will benefit. And it is a quite hidden technique since they will train you on good purpose how to have a winners' mind. So you should follow these leaders because they tell you investing into these products will position yourself as a leader and success will probably come a few weeks after the events, who knows. If you don't what leaders tell you to do, then don't blame them on failing.

Well simply because a few of the leaders made it quickly after an events doesn't eliminate the facts that they already spent years accumulating so it wouldn't surprise if after one event they made it. So new people don't fool yourself into believing that after this event you will quickly make it, there is no "get rich quick". Success comes with large amount of hard work and possibly years of sustained effort.

2. ProductsPros: the cons are too big that I wouldn't think of a pro. Remeber I mentioned earlier a lot of value is offered through training calls. However that is not the products. Compare to the price tag, the products offers way too little value.

Cons: Beyond Freedom ($1495)Some people say it is values more than the price. I don't know why they think this way. Simply because they are the 5% that made it in the business and they used the product as an aid doesn't mean it is priceless. I could purchase a 40 CD sets from US's No. 1 (yes, No 1) marketer or trainer for half of the price with unique value. Beyond Freedom is simply a highly summarized personal development course book teaching concepts that is already there. Similar books are in store for less than $100 bucks.

There is no way to sell such products to the public so money game is the true nature of the business, people sell to people who want to do the business; and people buy "products" because they want to invest into their business as the company or their advisors told them to act like a leader.

How would investing into products making me more successful. I'd rather invest the money into courses that horn my marketing skills, people skills, and mindset books that are much better and cheaper. I am here to run a business. Products are for people who have such needs but not necessarily want a business.

Since "Think and Grow Rich" is only $20. The product can't sell itself. That is truly why so many associates can't have results.

Liberty Conference ($7995):So called 2 days conference is only 2 half days (counted as 1) with only 4 speakers for such a heart-beating price and we know nothing about the conference before the day.

I have seen top markers of the country selling $2000 for a 3 days events with about 20 speakers and it moves slowly. Who will purchase the liberty conference? Only those who are fooled into believing by doing so they will build up their business.

Summit Conference ($12,995)I have no clear clue of what is the conference's content and who have spoked. We heard a lot on the screming of the participants and they go to safari and ride the elephants. So much fun they've had. The only mentioned words on the conference is that the speakers are so great and it is the best conference ever! And that is, no more details.

I seldom heard the founders talking about how they work on the products, or to put new value into the products. Products are not a major concern of the company because new associates will help with the product moving, it is how to sell the business.

The definition of Pyramid Scheme indicates a case of even there are products, but they are only used to make the company look legitimate and recruit people in and have them purchase the overpriced products that couldn't sell to the general public. With liberty league, products are overpriced and sells to the associates. So it fits in this criteria.

3. Advertising Showing personal stories and testimonials make the business very attractive. They also advertise that they will help you one on one as your personal mentor and an elite team will train you to success. There is barely one on one help because once you get in, you'll know your mentor doesn't have enough time to deal with you. So one on one is quite misleading.

Advertisement of "No prior selling or marketing experience required and quick results as those real people in testimonials spokes, it is a simple system, work 25 hours a week" are very misleading. New associates joining the business because they was told by these websites that they could likely retire from their JOB after a few months and they will be trained on marketing skills, which is not fulfilled at all. So since you already jumped in, now you have to figure out how to make your advertisement work on your own.

And if you are still not clear where is wrong about those people in testimonials quit their job in a few months, look at their background, they either failed a few times before in other home business so after a few months into this one the timing finally comes, had job experience related to business, sales or advertising, or they had lots of money so they can invest into the advertisement since it is a number's game.

How many of you joined because you believed that by following these leaders you will get rich quickly even you have none related experience. And they didn't tell you in their advertisement because it will turn down a lot of people. There is no simple thing in becoming successful, they however do want to simplify it so you feel it is easy and will jump in.

4. Those who failure didn't work hard enough?The majority of the businesses fail and in network marketing, the majority of the people will fail because they are not well skilled when they come to the business.

But this doesn't defy the facts that products are of no general public value and only used as a tool to make the biz look legitimate. New associates shouldn't be constantly persuaded (which those of you will deny, since the selling is hidden on training calls during talking about positioning as a leader) into buying expensive products which they couldn't get a return, and when they complain about the painful big investment, they were brutally told they didn't make it work, and it is not other people's fault: ?I told you should investment into our products because that is how we become leaders, but if you couldn't make it, you didn't do it right.? They never think asking people to buy products are wrong, because that is where their benefits lie.

Now they started telling us it is hard work, success doesn't come easy once we started complaining. But before people joining, all they hear are that how easy the system is, and if you do the same thing we do, you will be highly successful; we got so many testimonials all talking about how soon they quitted their jobs; never mentioning the desperate years before LLI that they are spending on other business opportunities.

5. Defending A lot of successful people are defending for Liberty league. Just because you are the 5% doesn't justify things. You could be well believed in the system or products since you have gotten something big as a return. I totally understand this. Since this is my first home business endeavor, if I really made it, didn't go through the frustration like others, I would probably think the public are wrong about what they are talking, they couldn't make it because they didn't work it right. But the chance that I could make it in my first endeavor is near zero with no prior experience, and those of you who made it"know for sure" about this.

The other reason you defend is because you simply want to keep your status no matter what because if Liberty League have no good reputation or collapse, you lose everything as well.

It is a common sense that with very few complaints, it might be the problem of the complainers. But with too many negative postings on the company, there must be something wrong. The No 1 problem are because the products couldn't sell itself. To be able to sell them, some associates are tend to lie, or hide their lies by using mentality techniques so it is hard for new comers to realize they have been ripped. When they found out a few months later, and the company no matter how much money they have made, they refuse to refund to correct their advisors' mistakes of wrong selling behavior. So that is why so many negative comments got generated.

6. What is best for Liberty LeagueLiberty League would be very well if constructed as an organization of supporting community. They have done a nice job of motivating people, people help each other, and the great family value. Charging $20 monthly fee for people coming into the beyond freedom community so they support each other, and allow these members can attend events at a much lower price is very fair. They are here really for the products because it helps them not because they have to run a business based on the products. Currently these values are not offered through the products but rather the training calls for associates already joined.

By selling the overpriced products to new recruits and the issues with some associates' selling behaviors, Liberty League is a disguised scam. I believe their people do appear very nice and want to have integrity. But to be able to move the hard to sell products, they have to use the highly spiritual belief things to pull people, even they don't realize what they say are fraudulent and contradict to their integrity intent because that is how they are trained or that is how they figure out to make things work with these products. But simply because you don't want a lemon, don't promote lemon doesn't mean it is not a lemon.
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#3 Consumer Suggestion

A messege from a former LLI top earner who left

AUTHOR: Paul - (U.S.A.)

I found this messege posted by a former LLI top earner, which gives insight on what is going on in the company, their huge attrition/failure rate, and the recent departure of many in LLI. This messege was posted just recently Dec. 1st, on another forum about LLI.

"Hi Natalie
I was with LLI for awhile and was a top income earner. The truth is, most people will make no money at all. Of the 50 people I brought in while I was there, only 1 of them made a significant amount of money. Only about 4 of the people I brought in made their training sales. This is basically true throughout the whole company. I am not going to throw a sales pitch at you or a link to a website. What I am going to suggest is that whoever you are working with, make sure they give you some honest answers. A lot of advisors will try to throw sales pitches at you and make it seem easier than it is. If they say more than 10 people on their team are making money, they are lying, and don't trust them. I know most top advisors there, and bottom line is NONE of them have that many people on their team making money. I wish you luck, and proceed with caution. I liked the business a lot, but I have moved on, and I'm glad I did. In fact, most of the people I knew in that business have moved on. There has been a massive exit there the last few months. Take care and keep us posted! Make sure you do your research on any company you look into.
A Former Member"
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#4 Consumer Suggestion

Their top income earners are quitting and leaving.

AUTHOR: Jim - (U.S.A.)

The following are just some of the now former LLI top income earners and leadership who have recently quit LLI and have left to join another company called xxx or xxx that is just starting up.

Jay K - his Google ads say "Considering LL? (which stands for Liberty Legue), Find out why a lot of top income earners left and where they went". Was a LLI top income earner who used to conduct company training calls. Was in LLI for years. Won several of LLI's contests.

Aaron P- Just recently quit LLI to join xxxas well. Was a LLI top income earner also who used to conduct training calls. Was in LLI for years.

Lehman H- This gentleman was in LLI as recently as July of 2006 before he too also quit LLI to join xxx.

Alan N- He held the all time top income record in LLI earned in a single month. He too just recently quit LLI to join xxx. I found access to his team's training call website which does not require a password by Googling his name. I went in and listened to some of his team's (no limits team) training calls for that new company to find out what type of lead generation training people get once they join, more about the company, etc.

I took a good peak behind the curtain on this site. I heard Alan N personaly mention on one of these calls that "everybody started struggling" in LLI. Don't beleive me? Listen to his training calls on the link below. I can't recall on which one he says it on, but he does say just that on one of them.

(( link removed by ROR))

There are more of them who got high ranking Google ads going that makes warnings such as "why you should avoid their 2Up plan" "Why I quit" "The real facts they don't want you to know"in it's main headline, and why you should joing their new company xxx instead of LLI. All of them are talking about LLI. These came up a few days ago when I did a simple Google search for "Liberty League International".

Ask yourself, why the heck are all these seasoned guys qutting LLI to join another company, and saying such things in their Google advertisment headlines about LLI?

BTW, after listening to some of the training calls that Alan N conducts for his new team, I was not impressed at all. The lead generation training call was a joke. There was no real training given in it. Bunch of talk and very vauge referrences as to what they are doing for lead generation. One of their own team members came out on the call and said the lead generation package xxx pushes to it's new people to buy once they join is complete "junk", and warned the others to not waste their money on it. "Junk" he called it.

If you want to take a peak behind the curtain of this new company all these guys are qutting LLI to join, and want to see the training you are going to get before you actually join and pay any money, go here, listen to the calls, and make your own decision.

I had a strong sense from these calls that they were no longer experiencing any team duplication in LLI. Alan's remarks on that one call left me with no doubt that was indeed the case.

(( link removed by ROR))
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