Report: #664043

Complaint Review: Performance Matters Associates

  • Submitted: Fri, November 19, 2010
  • Updated: Mon, February 25, 2013
  • Reported By: J16RThomas — Frederick Maryland United States of America
  • Performance Matters Associates
    8150 N. Central Expressway Suite 1300
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
    United States of America

Show customers why they should trust your business over your competitors...

I was first approached to start an insurance career/ business opportunity with Performance Matters Associates (A subcompany of Conseco LLC) by Chris Shropshire (Regional Manager in PA) back in July 2009. We met for an interview in the lobby of the "La Quinta" hotel in Harrisburg, PA.  When I interviewed with him he threw me a very good sales pitch as to what the "opportunity" entailed. That should have been my first clue as to get out then but I thought "I'll give it a shot".

He told me that I would be selling supplemental health insurance to employees of different accounts/business that were already open and that there were many accounts already open within a 2 hours radius of Harrisburg. It is a very similar business to Aflac but the "perk" was that I would not need to open my own accounts and agents shared accounts. He also explained that there was "A TON" of money to be made and that they would train me on how to do it. He said that to start up would not be a whole lot of money but would entail a little.

All of this sounded great at the time. My training consisted of a DVD and a script I was supposed to memorize and recite to each possible customer with "sales techniques" that were supposed to bring in and sell every customer.

I found out later were that there were very very few accounts open in the Harrisburg area. Also the start up costs included the miles and several hundreds of dollars used to travel to small accounts 2-3 hours away. Much different than what I was told in the interview. My very first "account" or business that I was supposed to market to employed 5 people who already had policies. My boss also told me that she was told by regional and state managers to make sure I make $1000.00 in premium my first week to make sure I stay with the company. This was a turnoff in itself. Why would they need to do this to make me stay.

As time went on I made a few hundred dollars here and there selling to small accounts. I went into credit card debt supporting the gas used to travel 2-3 hours away making no money at all at the measly accounts they sent me to. They then wanted to me to attend a mandatory regional sales meeting in Pittsburgh, PA (5 hrs away).

After this I decided to leave the company. Within 4 months I received a letter from Conseco saying that I owed them nearly $1400.00 for chargebacks/ accounts that cancelled. I only made about $2000 over a 3 month period. So now I was told I would make lots of money through lots of open accounts which did not hold true, went into debt and am now being toldto pay all of the money I made! I could understand if the risk was thrown out on the table but no one mentioned any of this when I signed up to work with them. I know this happened to several more PMA agents as well.

I'll let you form your own opinion but here was my experience. I turned out paying my money back to Conseco, having a bad credit score because of fighting and putting off the process, going into credit card debt to support myself and being jobless in the end.
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This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/19/2010 05:22 PM and is a permanent record located here: The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#1 UPDATE Employee

This is an opportunity not a JOB

AUTHOR: Matt - ()

I was working at a large Bank when the recession hit, at the time I was not endanger of loosing my Job in fact I was working my way up the ladder rapidly.  I found myself killing myself for a company that really just regarded me as a number.  I put my resume out there to see if there were any other opportunities possibly one where I could create a career where I could be more than a number.

I met with a gentleman in a hotel conference room who challenged me to become a part of something greater than myself while helping people during their greatest time of need.  I asked many questions that ranged from how the pay works and what was required of me.  He simply responded that nothing was required of me and that I would be an independent contractor. All they could do is motivate me and if I was not afraid of hard work they could teach me how to follow a work schedule and a marketing method that has unpatrolled results.  

I am glad to report that here I am 3.5 years later and it was everything they promised.  I have had the opportunity to find financial independent, travels to exotic local; my wife and I have made some lifelong friends.  However, I must say by far that the best gift that this opportunity has afforded me is the gift of time.  I am able to spend uninterrupted, quality time with my wife and three small children.  

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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

To Say that Performance Matters Associates (PMA-Conseco) is a scam or rip off are not quite strong enough of words to use.

AUTHOR: Brian - ()

I’d like to start off by saying I believe Conseco does have a good product and when I first went to work with PMA Conseco it was actually it was a great experience, I worked well with all the managers and really liked all the people I met with the company. I traveled around a lot but I enjoyed that, so it was not a problem at the time except for the fact I was paying all my travel expenses. I would later figure that with paying for all these traveling expenses I wasn’t really making as much money as I had thought. I did justify this fact however, because I figured that it would all pay off at the end when I would start to receive my residual income.

  Within a short time I was promoted to manager where my commissions where increased and I was also making overrides on the people beneath me and at the time this felt like a great achievement after only being in insurance industry a short time. Because I was now a manager however I was required to bring on new recruits, I struggled with this because I was knew the average person was probably not going to succeed, but there was so much pressure being put on me to do so, I felt had no choice.

  The reason I left PMA was because the region I was working in started to run scarce of good companies for me to enroll and my regional manager started giving the more desirable companies to enroll to the new hires wanting me to go out and open my own groups. After a couple of months of struggling financially I had no choice but to leave because with PMA Conseco I was captive so I could not work with another insurance company at the same time as PMA, but at this point I had to accept an offer from another insurance company; if PMA had let me I would have worked with both companies.

  Shortly before I left PMA I was talking with one of the other agents (who had worked with PMA longer than I had) about leaving and she warned me that all the other agents who had worked with PMA Conseco, after leaving that Conseco had put them into debt, needless to say I was not prepared. The amount of debt that they claimed I owed was almost as much as what I had earned working for them, plus remember; I had all those expenses I had to pay when traveling. Several months after leaving PMA I started receiving phone calls from debt collectors who were claiming to be attorneys, threating to take me to court if I didn’t resolve my debt. So I started reaching out to the other agents that I had worked with at PMA and ALL of them were having the same experience that I was having. So we all got together for breakfast one morning where there was about 15 of us and we all discussed filing a class action lawsuit but never did; we all seemed to get too involved with our new jobs and went on with our lives. I look back today and wish we had pursued or quest for judgment because one person I know actually did. From what I understand they will never let it go to court because they will have to produce their records proving the debt and they will never do that because they don’t want their scam to be reviled, however the debt will be put on your credit report if you don’t fight it.

  In my time there the average agent worked with PMA for about 3-6 months and was put into debt anywhere from $2000 to $7000. The longer one worked with PMA or the more money one made, the higher their debt was. I worked with PMA quite a bit longer so my debt is quite a bit more than the average.  The sad thing is I know of a couple of people who went ahead and paid off their debt, one paid $7000 putting their debt on a credit card; he had only worked with PMA for about 3 months. I also worked there long enough to be vested, meaning I was to receive residual income, however I have not seen a dime of it and to make matters worse the following year where I did not work for PMA at all, not receiving any type of compensation, they had the nerve to send me a Form 1099 for an amount well over $10,000 of compensation for that year (it was for about the same amount of my debt actually). This is why they put such a great emphasis on recruiting many new agents. Each new person recruited creates a new financial opportunity by putting those people into debt. I have never been witness to a machination so Machiavellian. To say that PMA Conseco is a scam or a rip off are not quite strong enough of words to use, they are the equivalent of a Ponzi Scheme. I believe Financial Terrorist would be a much more appropriate phrasing of words in describing PMA Conseco.

  Since my days with PMA I have had success working with several other group benefit enrollment companies that pay well, pay my expenses when I travel, including but not limited to my airfare, rental car, hotel and mileage, and never expected me to be captive. A few of these reputable Companies would be, EOI, Univers and Hodges & Mace.

 If you do go to work with PMA Conseco depending on what region you’re in, you could have an opportunity to make a lot of money or really waste a lot of your time, but no matter what the case, always beware of the consequences of leaving the firm known as PMA USA.  

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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds


AUTHOR: Fortune5ceo - (United States of America)

I was AMAZED to google this company i dreadfully used to work for and see ALL these people had the SAME experience....WOW! I too, was brought in by Chris Shropshire, with promised of making lots of money and climbing my way up the ladder (pyramid).  This whole company is made up of used car salesman type and wouldnt be surprised to see them on CNBC's show "American Greed: Scams." From top to bottom these guys are scumbags, just one richer than the next. 

The sell BOGUS policies that NOONE needs or NEVER sees a benefit from.  THEN, if you are the employee that SELLS a policy then you quit, the hire ANOTHER sucker to use to come in, cancel ALL the policies YOU wrote (so they can file a chargeback on commission to YOU) and then the RE-WRITE the policy AGAIN so the NEW agent makes money...

its such a scam their isnt enough time in the day by Chris Shropshire and his "superiors" will sell you a dream and then make you drive all over the place to sit in a place where NOONE wants what your selling.  its laughable.  DO NOT EVER WORK FOR PMA - PERFORMANCE MATTERS ASSOCIATES.  Please note i am NOT a disgruntled employee.. im someone who has been away from this company for 6 years and VERY successful in my new venture.  I speak HONESTLY and ONLY to protect those naive to PMA / Chris Shropshire games.  
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#4 UPDATE Employee

Positive attitude and activity required for success, which were you short on?

AUTHOR: Tstrodtman - (United States of America)

From your report I see that you were in the worksite marketing division, and I work on the other side.  The consumer marketing division, which does not focus on marketing to prospects through businesses, but rather taking our products directly to consumers at home.  I'm sure the techniques, and situations are different, but some principals apply to both sides.

If you were misled or failed to see some obvious aspects of the business, that's not PMA's fault as an organization rather the individual who recruited you, and yourself. Of course there are some start up expenses in taking any new job.  If you work in trades you at least need a pair of boots, if not thousands of dollars in tools.  The only start up cost in becoming an insurance agent for PMA is getting licensed to sell insurance in your state, which for me was about $100.  Just like your tools you buy to go to work in construction, you take them with you when you leave.  In insurance your license stays with you too.  You can go work for another company and not have to go through the licensing process again, as long as you kept it current.  All of the training and marketing materials are provided free, but it is a commission only sales position, so yes if you don't sell, you don't eat.  I'm certain no one told you your expenses such as food, gas, and hotel would be paid for or reimbursed.  If you thought it would be and didn't ask for clarification that's not PMA's fault.  If you choose to rack up credit card debt it's not PMA's fault.  So there aren't hidden expenses.  There are some obvious ones, that might not be talked about, but take some responsibility.

I too would struggle and fail if I only went after existing clients.  Where do you think those "very very few" existing accounts came from? Thin air?  No, someone got up out of bed put there shoes on and went out and made it happen.  I'm certain that in the worksite division as well as the consumer division new "accounts" are at least half the focus.  As I write this, last week all of my sales were to first time buyers, that had never seen or heard of us or what we offer before. I had to accept there was a chance of rejection and try anyway.  It sounds to me that you didn't even attempt to create new business.  It sounds to me that you didn't put your heart behind this opportunity, mentioning you were only an agent for three months.  It sounds to me you heard how good it could be, but didn't bother to find out what the people who have enjoyed immense success and financial compensation did to earn what they have.

To anyone else who might read this sob story, take it from me, a person with no prior sales experience, a job history in auto-mechanics and construction, there is unparalleled opportunity for success and wealth to anyone willing to work hard, with a positive mental attitude.  Within 54 weeks of being with PMA I was promoted.  I owe the opportunity to PMA, but I owe the success to my diligence, perseverance, and my wife who allows me to leave home for 4 days a week to go make it happen.

For all we know this person could actually be working for a competitor, and wrote this with the sole intention of undermining our organization, which is why i dislike these kind of forums.  If you look in a septic tank, you'll find some crap.

As to the charge backs you had, I'm confident they are legitimate.  If you didn't see them coming it's your fault for not understanding how we get paid.  You have plenty of resources available to get the details which are not complicated or slight of hand whatsoever.  Sales is not for everyone, but negative people who don't take resposibility will never succeed.

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#5 UPDATE Employee

A great opportunity for anyone

AUTHOR: PMAUSA / Dallas, TX - (United States of America)

Performance Matters Associates (PMAUSA) offers an outstanding opportunity for anyone with an entrepreneurial spirit and strong work ethic.  We provide you the sales system, training, income, awards and recognition while you build your own business as an independent contractor insurance agent.  

Our system has proven successful for many folks who are making more money than they ever thought possible, building renewal income for their future while helping Americans through the outstanding supplemental health and life products we are proud to market for Washington National Insurance Company.  

This business is not for everyone perhaps your personal lifestyle does not allow you to commit, perhaps you just dont have what it takes to be a true self-starter with that entrepreneurial spirit.   Were sorry for those who did not succeed with us and sincerely wish you the best for the future. However, what we absolutely know for sure and stand behind 100% is that if you combine a strong commitment to working the system with all the tools and resources we offer success is indeed achievable!
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#6 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Me TOO/lied to at time of recruitment and discriminated against by PMA

AUTHOR: A. Surrena - (United States of America)

I filed a complaint with this web site and would like to investigate a joint lawsuit against this company.  Look for me under Anastasia from Harrisville.  I too am being collected on by this company.

Their collection practices are illegal and misleading.  They are having individuals pretend to be from a law firm and make threats against you if you do not pay them.

I refuse to pay a debt that is not mine to pay.

Please read my story and somehow get back to me.  I went on and have found multiple complaints against this company!

Agents have rights too.  We have a right to be properly informed at the time of recruitment and just the same as every other one has the right to discriminate against us based on sex, race, color or disability!  Collections companies also have a legal obligation to follow the legal collections practices that are established by our government.

I am sorry you went through this and you were forced to give up and pay them the money.  I will not give in and pay them and if my career is continuously hindered by their negative reporting then they are directly infringing on my legal right to earn an income.  I have NO intention of quitting this fight or giving in and I will not stop until justice is done!  Someone who wants this case please please get in touch with me.

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