Report: #927531

Complaint Review: Policy 5

  • Submitted: Wed, August 15, 2012
  • Updated: Sun, March 03, 2013
  • Reported By: Don — Salt Lake City Utah United States of America
  • Policy 5
    222 S. Main #500
    United States of America

Show customers why they should trust your business over your competitors...

Temen  Jerar Williams calls himself TJ, the principal of Policy5.  He generates insurance leads that he sells.  TJ tries but he can't deliver, he'll make promises beyond his skill set.  The leads were worthless regardless his continual promises and guarantees.  Policy 5 (TJ) walked away with $400 of my money.  By the way the highrise office he claims, 222 Main St. #500 is a virtual office, he's really working out of the Los Angeles area, a hotbed for this kind of ripoff.  
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This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 08/15/2012 08:11 AM and is a permanent record located here: The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#1 REBUTTAL Owner of company

What The Hell????

AUTHOR: TJ - (United States of America)

Are you dumb Josef???? Must be. Do you always speak like your in a board room? I dont and definately dont on a board that I could care less about where some jackass insurance agent who probably doesnt live by any laws is calling me a scammer. I spoke about the telemarketers that way because thats what i experienced, I gave all the training needed, we are talking months of training  and deep transference of my knowledge.

I was the top cold caller on the west coast for a major company for years. I know telemarketing, So when i saw that agents had leads from the internet that were mostly always bad. i knew I could generate excellent leads through telemarketing so I put together a team. We were super successful in my beta phase and the process totally worked.

Your the type of person to write what your writing its all of ignorance and thats what you are a ingnorant a*s. I bet if I came to your office you wouldnt dare speak to me like you are you would hide because your a coward. I dont give a s**t about being a "professional business man" the same as you dont about being a coward. I know I was the best man to teach 20 telemarketers to get great leads for my clients and I worked 16 days doing that. So call it what you want to call it lawless b*****d.

I persoanlly witnessed you have no integrity and lie as to the true nature of our dealings so if that being a so call pro business man I dont want to be that. Im doing something now where I dont have clients or sorry a*s telemarketers and thats the way I like it. You called me 7 times a week and wanted to speak for 1 hour a time, talk over me, say rude crap and be a total a**hole. What goes around comes around buddy and I bet they come around for your lying self. 
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#2 Consumer Comment

Proof of...what?

AUTHOR: Josef - (United States of America)

The only thing I see "Proven" of, TJ, is that you were a terrible business.  Listen to the way you speak about the people you hired to do the work YOU sold to US as quality leads!  Listen to yourself and the way you talk about people; and then understand that your attempt to make money off of agents without actually having the legitimate wherewithal, nor staffing, to accomplish the proferred service is the definition of dealing in poor faith.  Just look at what you just said and ask yourself:  are those the words of a true professional business owner...  Or a hustler? 

I can honestly say that I have never before or since come into contact with a company like yours, but it increased my awareness that I need to be quite careful when dealing with Leads vendors and always do extensive research before committing anything to them.  So I should thank you for that lesson at least.
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#3 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Proved my point

AUTHOR: TJ - (United States of America)

I proved my point here, this man is a liar and was angry. Policy 5 is no longer a company, I got tired of dealing with guys like this guy Josef Moccoy who we spent 300.00 on telemarketers giving his sorry agency leads and he filed a chargeback on us lied on the paper work and then used his post here to make his chargeback credible. This man is scum of the earth, basically what happened here is we lost 300 dollars. And another good point is if Policy 5 wanted to scam people we d**n sure wouldnt have been taking credit cards which you can chargeback by just saying the words to your card company. No we legitimately tried to help agents and make some money in the mean time. Theres 2 other companies that have tele markers and they are in the millions in revenue. I just got bamboozled and didnt have the want to keep going to one sorry telemarketers after another. the good ones left to better jobs and the crappy ones stayed but would go up and down in quality constantly. And the place where I did my ads to find easy ones that could start working quickly was Victorville, Ca and that made it worse because most people their are dense as hell. Had to explain that we spoke to people about insurance to try to save them money over and over and over. Training would take hours with people asking the stupidest questions after being told the answers in dephtly. The on top of that to have to deal with this BS for some money I can make anyways doing something else. No way jose
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#4 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Recording Of Josef Mccoy

AUTHOR: Temen Williams - (United States of America)

I have a very interesting recording of myself calling Josef Mccoy to work this out the day I got word he charged back on us and it goes like this

Hi Josef this is TJ with Policy 5 


O yeah I saw your email I was going to call you

Then he hangs up

That should say a lot as to what kind of person he is and just knowing it took him 20 days to come up with the funds to even get the leads shows that hes short on money so he needed the 480.00 he spent on leads. 

and anyone reading this who wants that recording can email me at and ill email that to you 
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#5 REBUTTAL Owner of company

More Proof

AUTHOR: Temen Williams - (United States of America)

This man Josef Mccoy is a liar and is mad because i told him he was a bold faced liar and that I was going to prove it and report him so he decided to beat me to it. Anyway here is proof his claim of "60 days " is a bold faced lie, although it did take 20 days for him to come up with the funds his service started May 22 and he filed the dispute late June. here are a few emails from him and I back and fourth. He is clearly worried about funds and is trying to set up a chargeback but with our lead rate system i know he received a few series 5's which is really good for 11 leads. He was a problem from the start and his messages here are in hopes of getting us back. No talk of fraud here in this email, he obviously knows we speak to him and are being honest. 

TJ, We need to start talking about options here. Clearly your company is not going to be able to fill the order in the 30 day period we talked about on the phone, nor were all these leads Allstate leads as we were led to believe they would be. Even after accepting a more broad spectrum of company filters to accommodate you (and us), the production has not increased. This is just far below the line of good faith telemarketing efforts and below what was promised when you talked to me originally. Our agency cannot accept 11 (-2 for credit, -2 for duplicates = net 7) leads in 40 days when we ordered 30 leads to be delivered in 30 days or so. We will need to get a refund on the unused portion of the service and we will part ways. We really have no other recourse, as our production this month and last was incredibly low due to your companies failure to meet the order. Let me know what we need to do to cause that to happenamicably. I will also e-mail you on this. 

Phone (360)705-3825 e-mail me at

------ Original Message ------ 
Received: 12:35 PM PDT, 05/22/2012 
From: "Josef McCoy" <> 
To: TJ at POLICY 5 <> 
Subject: Re: New Leads 

Again, i was never sent any link or way to use Client Space.  i told you that and your boss  as well.  I got some kind of notification but no idea how to go to it or look at it. 

Phone (360)705-3825  e-mail me at

------ Original Message ------ 
Received: 09:51 AM PDT, 05/22/2012 
From: TJ at POLICY 5 <> 
To: Josef McCoy <> 
Subject: Re: New Leads 

They have not been sent out yet, but they are in and verified and almost on the way. Thanks for your patience.  

Te'men Williams, Agency Growth Manager 
Policy 5 
222 South Main Suite 500 Salt Lake City, Utah 84116 U.S.A. | Telephone: 385.282.5112 | Fax: 888.551.1375 

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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Josef Mccoy

AUTHOR: Temen Williams - (United States of America)

Why hang up in our face and then try to come here and talk this???? You dont make any sense. hmmmm let me think could it be because I can prove you are a LIAR??? I have the rebutal from the crad company and it says nothing like this. 



But when we tried to speak to you you hung up only to come on places like this lying. If we were scamming you you wouldnt know our names and we d**n sure wouldnt tell you where our offices are. We geniunely tried to use the telemarketers to give awesome stuff. 

Yes Jared and I are different people and I know of at least two other companies that use telemarketers to fund their leads and do it just fine. WE DONT DO ANYTHING DIFFERENT, BESIDES THE STUFF THAT ADD MORE VALUE TO WHAT WE DO. 
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#7 Consumer Comment

similar experience.

AUTHOR: Josef - (United States of America)

My experience mirrors this complaint and others here exactly.  The accounts of experiences with this company seem to revolve around the collection of sales tax on telemarketing services that seems improper, obfuscation and improper payments of compensation to employees and paying them in methods that are ridiculous and traceable; and of course the leads themselves appear to be a source of complaint that is almost secondary to the terrible way in which the company appears to deal with clients.  Many reports here described a company that is giving bad or even fabricated leads and one gets the distinct impression that Te'men and Jared (if they are even different people) are the company, selling a servie to too many agents they cant obviously deliver.

In my experience they sent me a lead (as just ONE example), which was not the type they promised (I had been promised all Allstate leads) and they resent the SAME LEAD with the information slightly altered!  Then they offered me credit and more leads to "make up for it", but of course they did not come.  With all the credits for "oops" things like this, I got nowhere near the leads I ordered and was about 60 days in!  He wasn't about to let anyone cancel on him as you all know nor have the unused portion of the service back so I took action and am now going further with it.

This incredibly obvious attempt at "making up" leads and hoping one wouldn't notice this was offensive enough.  However the constant stream of stories on "why we haven't gotten those leads to you yet" was truly inspired.  Agents work with lead companies all the time and they know that no t every lead goes somewhere.  Agents don't rise up like this and get angry over a couple leads like that.  But this is a whole other beast altogether.  Hopefully agents do careful research before moving forward with vendors.  I know I will in the future.

He's a known quantity.  Just turn him in to the tax folks, the wage claims folks  and the Attorney General and let the system know he's out there.  Don't JUST say your peace here.  It does no good to just post it here.  Guys like this are caufght when a lot of stories seem to start sounding awfully similar...
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#8 REBUTTAL Individual responds

Lie and reputation shot

AUTHOR: Temen Williams - (United States of America)

No we are not in California and why cant the company have a office in a high rise, would you like to see the lease? People like this who are angry and psychotic who cant legally do anything will use sites like this to lie and create false reports to try and damage credibility. The only thing true here is that you brought leads from the company, nothing else. We dont have to con you, its too easy to create leads and we recordings for everyone of them like we told you in the contract you signed. 
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