Rico, Plus Auto Sales ripoff, lied to me on the phone about the compression of the engine and the condition of the car. He failed to inspect the car before offering to sell it to me. Miami Florida

"Rico lied to me and told me on the telephone that the compression was good on all of the cylinders."

"Many authorities believe that more than six pounds difference is an indication of problems."

"That might be true, but I had an agreement with the owner as to the condition of the vehicle and that agreement included perfect compression."

Pay close attention. He did not lie about the compression being good on all of the cylinders. The allowable cylinder pressure according to Honda for your engine is from 135-185 psi. They also allow a 28psi variance between cylinders. By your own admission, one was 10psi less than the others. This is almost 1/3 the allowable variance, and equals roughly 6%. Nobody considers 6% to be a bad cylinder. Anything less than 15% lost is a good reading. Honda allows from 16-21%.

NO "authorities" believe more than 6 psi is an indication of anything. You won't find a single service manual from anyone that states that.

You had an agreement as to the condition of the engine. It has 4 cylinders, and ALL of them are well within spec. As such, it has perfect compression. Any engine that only has a 6% loss compared to the rest, is perfect.

Earlier in this discourse it was brought to my attention that the State of Florida doesn't require dealers to inspect cars. That might be true, but I had an agreement with the owner as to the condition of the vehicle and that agreement included perfect compression.

No I am afraid you are quite wrong with respect to Rico misrepesenting the condition of the car. Rico had stated in writing the condition of his car prior to my arrival or I would have never gone to his dealership. In addition his ad stated "the air was real cold" and he had sent me an e-mail concerning the condition of the vehicle.

I am not sure why he would have done this except for the fact that he felt that people were so desperate that they would have bought anything from him.

Rico and his Plus Auto Sales had mistated the condition of the vehilce prior to my arrival. Both his e-mails and his ad were deceptive and misleading.

I was looking for a car that could be driven out of Miami and not one that was going to take a lot of work prior to my arrival.

Randal,

First let me say that FL has no inspection requirements on vehicles. The dealer is not required to do an inspection for you. I'm sure the car was advertised "as-is" at that age and mileage.

As far as the compresion test goes, that means next to nothing. Once you put some good oil in it and some good fuel and maybe an injector/fuel cleaning in it the compression will come up as many times a car has been sitting and the rings get sticky, as well as the valves with carbon.

The A/C could very well cost you $500 if it is a bad compressor, and the motor mounts with labor are about $300. Thats potentially $800 you were not worried about?

I just have to ask, WHAT were you thinking?

These type of dealers buy these type of cars from auctions for nothing. What did you really thing you were getting? This is a small time dealer in a bad neighborhood selling buy here pay here type cars. They advertise in the bargain traders, etc.

Travel expenses too? Wow, you must have really wanted that civic! Better luck next time!

FYI, The dealer was right, when you make a deposit, that holds the car and prevents it from even being shown to anyone else. A deposit is a guarantee to purchase. You legally bought that car.

Whoever it is, they need to stop. If you think a 6psi difference indicates ANY sort of problem with an engine, you'll never find a car you'll accept. New engines have that much variance.

"Compression readings for a gasoline engine should run around 125 to 175 psi. The compression should not vary over 15 to 20 psi from the highest to the lowest cylinder. Readings must be within 10 to 15 percent of each other. Diesel engine compression readings average approximately 275 to 400 psi, depending on the design and compression ratio. Compression levels must not vary more than about 10 to 15 percent (30 to 50 psi). Look for cylinder variation during an engine compression check. If some cylinders have normal pressure readings and one or two have low readings, engine performance is reduced. If two adjacent cylinders read low, it might point to a blown head gasket between the two cylinders. If the compression pressure of a cylinder is low for the first few piston strokes and then increases to near normal, a sticking valve is indicated. Indications of valve troubles by compression test may be confirmed by taking vacuum gauge readings."

This can be found in any automotive service manual.

You already stated you didn't care about any of the other issues with the car.

"The air and the engine mounts are things that I would have overlooked, but the engine compression is a serious problem and Rico and his Plus Sales failed to inspect the vehicle before trying to sell it to me."

The only issue you had was with the compression test...a compression test that you do not understand.

I cannot fathom the thought process of buying a car in Miami and driving it to Texas. Why not just buy one in Texas. It's not like a Honda Civic DX is a rare breed. They only make about a zillion /year.

A compression test that shows one cylinder is low is not a good sign. Compression needs to be even. In any event, Rico had misrepresented the compression prior to my visit to his car dealership.

I was planning on driving the car to Waco after I picking up the vehicle and not back to the place that I now reside. There was no misunderstanding between myself and Rico. Rico had completely lied about the condition of this vehicle as well as the source that the vehicle came from. Apparently the vehicle was sold at an auction which is notorious for people trying to unload their problems.

I would probably have walked away from that car too, unless the price was really low. There compression test sounds good, but the dealer lied about the A/C and didn't spend maybe a hundred bucks on engine mounts so it wouldn't shake. (The engine mounts shouldn't have failed so early unless the previous owner really abused it.) That shows that dealer doesn't care much about selling a good car.

I also wonder about travelling thousands of miles just to buy a Honda Civic DX. If that's the car you want (it is a good car), you can certainly find a good deal on one close to home. And with any used car, expect there's a chance once you see it in person there'll be something wrong and you won't want it.

Another important check of a used engine is to take the oil cap or even the whole valve cover off and look at how much sludge is inside.

Rico lied to me and told me on the telephone that the compression was good on all of the cylinders. He was well aware that I was coming from out-of-town.

His ad also stated that his air conditioning was real cold. However, upon my arrival I discovered that there was no air conditioning and he then said it must have happened after I drove the car.

The mechanic that I took the car to also indicated that the severe vibration that was experienced above 20mph was from engine mounts that needed to be replaced.

Rico was aware that I was planning on driving the car out-of-state, but he could careless about my safety just as long as he got my money. The vibration in the engine was sufficient to where this car was not driveable.

There are a number of things that can be wrong with an engine when the compression is low. And an engine can definitely have problems with less than 15 pounds difference in compression -- particularly if the compression reading is not uniform.

15 pounds difference is usually referring to a failed cylinder, but more than 6 pounds is usually referring to worn piston rings and/or, bad valves, or a combination of both.

Many authorities believe that more than six pounds difference is an indication of problems.

Rico and Plus Auto have misled me and I am sure they would mislead anyone else. The fact that I came from out of state to look at a car that wasn't as promissed is an example of Rico and Plus Auto's reputation. All of us have the ability to buy cars from auctions. However, I expect a dealer to be reputable with respect to fairly reporting the condition of a vehicle.
Rico didn't check the condition of this car and could careless as long as it is sold.

His 2000 Honda Civic DX with 99,100+ miles is not safely driveable without additional repairs.
Even his co-worker who drove me to a AAA certified mechanic agreed the vibration was significant enough to where the vehicle needed to be repaired.

I certainly do. Why would you drive 'thousands of miles' to view a Honda Civic with less than 100,000 miles? Was the guy selling it for $20.00 or something?

Honda Civics are as common as bubble gum. Why drive so far to buy one?

A compression test tells very little about the condition of the engine. You are upset because one of the cylinders was 10 pounds light, as compared to the others. Big deal. As long as there is no more than a 15% difference between them, it's considered good.

A more reliable test would be a "leak-down" test. Air is applied, and a gauge will indicate the rate of leakage in that cylinder. Listening for the audible hiss will tell you exactly where the leakage is. This doesn't take much more time than a basic compression test.

A compression test tells very little about the condition of the engine. You are upset because one of the cylinders was 10 pounds light, as compared to the others. Big deal. As long as there is no more than a 15% difference between them, it's considered good.

A more reliable test would be a "leak-down" test. Air is applied, and a gauge will indicate the rate of leakage in that cylinder. Listening for the audible hiss will tell you exactly where the leakage is. This doesn't take much more time than a basic compression test.

A compression test tells very little about the condition of the engine. You are upset because one of the cylinders was 10 pounds light, as compared to the others. Big deal. As long as there is no more than a 15% difference between them, it's considered good.

A more reliable test would be a "leak-down" test. Air is applied, and a gauge will indicate the rate of leakage in that cylinder. Listening for the audible hiss will tell you exactly where the leakage is. This doesn't take much more time than a basic compression test.

A compression test tells very little about the condition of the engine. You are upset because one of the cylinders was 10 pounds light, as compared to the others. Big deal. As long as there is no more than a 15% difference between them, it's considered good.

A more reliable test would be a "leak-down" test. Air is applied, and a gauge will indicate the rate of leakage in that cylinder. Listening for the audible hiss will tell you exactly where the leakage is. This doesn't take much more time than a basic compression test.