Skye Marketing LTD - Part Of Innovage DS Max Cydcor Pro Sales Direct Per DM Skye/LMC Marketing LTD Former employee discovers shaded areas of business! Do not work for these liars and cheats Belfast United Kingdom

Report from a former employee of this company in a bid to try and stop new recruits signing up. Unfortunately when I Googled Skye Marketing LTD before I attended interview I couldn't find anything about it! Not even a website, which by the way they informed me was "under construction". That was about 5 months ago.


Ok so these companies, multi level marketing and network marketing, they always always have constant recruitment.
When people on their 2nd interview asked me why, I told them, "Because of our huge expansion plan we need to recruit a lot. But we're looking for managers, not salespeople."
Now at the time, that was the truth from me, because I knew no better.
But in this report I hope to give a little more detail and explanation of techniques used by these companies like Skye Marketing LTD and Innovage and Per DM and DS Max and Pro Sales.

First of all I would like to explain all these different names I've quoted in a hierarchy starting with me.

Me - This is me, I spent 6 months in the business, was promoted to trainer after 3 weeks or so and had a "huge amount of potential". I knew I could do it, and I know I still could, but I won't lie to people. That's just not what I stand for. So I left.
Also, they made me sign an independent distributor form just so if anything went wrong I couldn't sue them, but they could sue me for theft of merchandise. Nice.

Skye Marketing LTD / LMC Marketing LTD / Kee Initiative - This is the 1st stop. This is where you would be working. Where they would train you up to be a manager at which point you could open your office anywhere in the world (LIE) with whatever name you want (truth).

Per DM - This is "head office". I really don't know what goes on here. All I know is that they send us the merch, we sell it, and they get 50% of the profit. Apparently they have legal teams and accountancy teams and they're the guys that sort all our figures out but technically the legal teams cant do jack because they represent only per DM


Innovage - From what I believe, Innovage are the european overall company. They would control Per DM. They also do all the deals with big factories in China to get us products to sell. "Designer", I'm sure. (They don't tell you this but all products are made in china and come in innovage boxes. Add 2 and 2 people! Also, a regional director, Tim Kennedy, was in a conference call about products once and he told us how the last victoria jackson brushes were crap and these new ones are brilliant. To quote him "we got the factory in china to do them for much less than they really should have".
But I thought she was an American makeup artist and she gave us the products!!! what the hell??)

DS Max/Cydcor - This is the American branch. A little research on this site has shown that DS Max is the overall controller.

It's hard to keep track of this though, because they change name so frequently. Per DM was formerly Pro Sales, as they made us change this on forms about the business.

Now here's the weird bit. None of these companies are legally linked. By that I mean, if I, me, was to get into legal trouble, I am solely responsible. If Skye get into trouble, Skye are solely responsible as they are incorporated under the manager, Per DM want nothing to do with Skye if dirt hits the fan. Likewise, if Per DM get in trouble, Innovage don't, and so on so on.
This is just a way of protecting the companies so that no single legal team can bring the whole thing down.

So now you know some of the names I'll move onto some techniques that are used. Beginning with recruitment.

1) First Round Interview

After submitting your CV you will be invited in to attend an interview at the office. Chances are, you will be seated beside 2-5 other people also in the same position as yourself.
Don't worry about your CV by the way, as long as you're alive they'll give you an interview. I once interviewed someone who barely spoke English.


During this interview they will tell you a little about the company, its history, its plans and that's about it. It's one of those interviews where the interviewer talks more than the interviewee..........weird. They'll tell you that they have a rapid expansion plan, have offices worldwide and now need managers to fill those gaps.
When you walk away you will feel buzzing and excited like you can't live without this job.
I remember waiting for my phonecall later in that evening to see if I was to be offered a 2nd round interview. I was almost sick with nerves.

So congratulations, you have been invited back for the 2nd round interview (Day of Observation [Trainers called 2nd round interviewees - Obs])

2) Day of Observation.

Basically a day where you shadow a "top trainer" (We were all "top trainers") watch him make sales, or try to, have him try to convince you that it's a great job with huge prospects to learn/earn money/progress/personal development.
Depending on what you're motivated by, and the trainers will find out, will depend on how they structure their day.
You will be walking around in whatever weather for about 7 hours.

For example, if motivated by money I would have talked about the day I dropped 25 sets of the victoria jackson makeup and made 150.
I'll stress to them that in 1 hour I sold 4 pieces of makeup and earned myself 20 so just think what I can do in 7! or 8!
Here are some negatives that I would have to overturn.
Ob - "Its Commission"
Me - "Yes it is. But if it didn't work, I wouldn't be here" (when infact Im penniless often literally!)
Ob - "I have expenses to pay like a phone, car, house, KID"
Me - "There are 15 people in the office - do you think we don't have atleast one of those things?" (when most of us lived with our parents)

We could go on all day.

If they were motivated by progress I will stress how I got promoted in just 3 weeks to trainer and how good it felt to have my promotion speech and everything and also how I had a 10 week plan that would get me to assistant manager, what I'll do then, how long to regional director (RD) and how long to vice president (VP).
The ob would be sweating with excitement at this point!

If motivated by progress to learn and self development I will explain to them little tiny bits of our many many systems that we are taught and give them an insight into just how much they can learn. If they want personal development then I will stress just how much more extroverted I had become, how I manage a team and now know how to manage and motivate other people! even large teams! and problem solve! and prioritise! and everything that makes me great! (In 100% fairness, that is the truth. The business taught me all those things and in that respect I think it's amazing how it did and does - It changes people, but for the better).

----

Before the day of ob really begins, you will fill out a brief questionnaire in the morning which has a section with 7 different things. You must list these in importance (1 being most important). They were; Opportunity to learn - High earnings - Management Opportunities - Fun Environment - Fast paced advancement - Challenging work - Teamwork environment.

Depending on which was 1st and 7th you knew how to structure your day. Generally based upon top 3 which were often High Earnings - Man Op & Fast Paced Advancement. This was easy. Stress the get rich & important quick.

Nomatter what they put as their least important, you always bullied them on it.

"It worries me you put fun environment as your least important, you don't feel that it's important to have fun on the job to keep a good mentality and positive attitude?!"
they will then begin to quiver and shake and probably proceed to tell you that it is important but not as important as being the manager and blah blah you get the point.

So they will take you to a seperate area, in Skye it was just by the front door. They will run through that questionnaire (called The CV Breakdown) It is during the CV Breakdown that you get all that information described above and more. Where they're from, etc, what they're doing, long term goals etc etc etc.

They will tell you there will be 3 parts to the day;
Morning - Go and speak to lots of people
Lunch - Will explain the opportunity then so save any business questions for lunch
After lunch - Go and see more people.

While heading out to the field to do sales, the "top trainer" will tell you a bit about the business. They will use the 'Tie Setup' to explain the business and why on God's green earth anyone would troop around doing direct sales. In fairness, it is quite a good idea. This was mine.

"Ok so, why would anyone do this? [direct marketing/sales]
Well basically, there's 2 forms of marketing. Direct and retail.
Retail is when people come to you and direct is when you go to them.
What's your favourite band?
ob - uhhhhhh boyzone
me - Ok what's your fav album by boyzone?
ob - uhhhhhhhhhhh i duno i download my music
me - very good, I'll use the rolling stones' greatest hits as an example then (you'd be so surprised how often that ACTUALLY happened)
Right, so, the rolling stones decide to make a big comeback. Now take HMV as an example.
How many people do you think walk by it each day??
20K people walk by it each day.
out of that, 2000 people walk into the store
200 people go to the music section
20 people look at the rock section
2 people see the rolling stones greatest hits album and maybe only 1 buys it.
Not great for the RS in a potential market of 20,000 people.

So the RS want a big comeback. They come to our company, give us loads of their albums, we speak to 200 people each, every day, we have great face to face customer service and we sell the same album for a fraction of the price. Probably 85% less.
So as you can tell, people are very keen to buy from us!"

After this, the reason why someone troops around for 8 hours earning a s**t wage to make someone else rich seems like a fun idea.

Ok so the ob and "top trainer" make it to the field and now begin to do sales.
The trainer doesn't show it, but that top trainer is laying eggs in the hope that he makes some sales. Should he not - guess what - he has a technique to justify it!
It's not because they're rubbish at sales - it's because of the law of averages!
ob - what's that??
me - well the LoA dictate that if we speak to 200 people, we will get 180 negatives (not sales), 20 positives (sales) and that's a 1:10 average.
me - Today we've only seen 70 people and not made any sales because we need to see another 130.
The ob now wipes the sweat from his eyebrow.

Ob - "Do the law of averages ever not work?"
trainer - "CAST THEE TO H*LL DEVILSPAWN DO NOT QUESTION THE SYSTEMS"
But really, they would answer "Yea, not always on the day though but over the week they do and if not the week then the month". What they also fail to mention is that it's bull and that it could go on forever. "No not always on 1 day, but it will balance out over the week and if not it does the month. Then the year. Maybe the decade, perhaps the century and if not, definitely the millennium".

Basically the LoA was a technique set by the company to instil faith in that lonely distributer who's only made 25 that if he keeps walking around for another 4 hours he'll make a further 30. (Waaaaowwww! 55 for a days work! thats awesome!) [not really when you're working 12 hours a day - 4.58 per hour -- less than minimum wage!]

Ok so that's the morning over, time for lunch and the 'Lunchtime Breakdown' when they describe to you the workings of the company.

You will be given a form with 4 boxes on it which the trainer will now write on. The top box is the Manager box and the bottom is the entry level box. I will attempt to show you how it would look. (Title first then bullet points on each stage)

4 - Managing director
*Run your own business (LIE - more than half your profit goes to per dm which you also have to take out a 10,000 loan from before being promoted out)
*Give others the same opportunity (Kind of true - you hire anyone)
*Manage a large team (Kind of true - you get a lot of people excited to work for nothing)

3 - Assistant Manager
*Learn the legal/finance/HR/admin, etc (LIE - they give you a book with all this info in it)
*Organise road trips (True and not true. No A**. Man. ever organised one for me - I organised my own or the Manager did it)
*Manage medium size team (5-15 people) (True - depending on how many people he recruits)
*Conduct 1st & 3rd round interviews (True)

2 - Leadership
*Pass on basic systems (true - you train new recruits)
*Learn to manage a small team (true - how many you recruit)
*Go on road trips (true)
*Conduct 2nd round interviews (true - thats the day of ob brainwashing day)

1 - Pre Management
*Learn basic sales and marketing (how to sell stuff)
*Learn office routine (get used to long a** hours)
*Learn self motivation (be brainwashed into the business)
*Conference calls (listen to a RD brainwash you)

Some of the things they tell you here are not true. Like for example, I was told, therefore I told obs, that at A** Man you get a basic wage. You do not. You earn what your team makes. If your team makes nothing, you make nothing.
I was told, therefore I tell others, that at MD stage you get promoted out to your own office and you get a huge support network and your promoting MD will pay for everything.
LIES - You do not go anywhere you want you go where they want you/you can afford - you do not choose your own product-they give you one - they do not pay for anything because you take out a 10,000 loan from Per DM - therefore the only person that pays is you when paying back that loan. If after 2 months you're not breaking even or making profit - it's off to the gutter with you sunbeam you've had your chance, sling your hook. So at that point, you've worked for a year or longer only to be jobless and in a LOT of debt.

----
Ok so thats the day over and theyre bringing you back to the office. They stand you outside and "final fear of loss" you.
What I normally said to people was -

"What did you think of today? (ob answers whatever)
"Well when I was in your shoes and the guy told me the opportunity at lunch, I practically fell off my chair with excitement.. I just wanted to start straight away... I don't really get that from you"

At this point it would go 1 of 2 ways.

1) "No I really really want it! please! it's awesome! just give me a chance!"
2) (This is what they ALWAYS said) "yeaaaa, well, it definitely looks interesting"

If #2 I would have sent them home. Probably would have figured this out by lunch and sent them home then, which by the way I forgot to mention I had to pay for. And their transport. Also, I couldn't afford it! Somedays I had to borrow money from the manager just to pay for my transport to and from the field. So much for that 50K a year job.
I eventually stopped paying for their transport/lunch.

If #1 then I'd have brought them upstairs, told them "I'll try to get you a 3rd round interview tonight but I can't guarantee anything - it's rare and only the luckiest people get it so soon"
Ofcourse, I know fine rightly they will get that 3rd round interview.

During the 3rd round interview basically the manager assesses them quickly, finds their motivation, picks on that for a while, sets them up with the trainer as a mentor, trainer and ob exchange numbers, observation almost dies with excitement and sprints home to tell mummy and daddy who will soon change their mind as probably 80% of all obs offered the position, never even showed up again. Rightly so.

Thats the brunt of tricks used to fool people into this business. Theyre subtle but effective. The trainers who are using them, dont even realise it. It takes time to see the cracks emerge and when I begun to question WHY I was told to say said things and WHY I had to overturn negatives on an INTERVIEW the bigger picture started to become more clear.

I have some questions for you.

What sort of business has 3 interviews?
What sort of business is one you have unanswered questions to?
What sort of business sells an unknown designer brand product for more than established designers?
What sort of business pays cash in hand?
How much would you work for while working 60 hours per week?

If in the business, some questions for your manager (be sneaky);

Where did you want to live most when you were younger?
(assuming they say a diff country which most do) Why didnt you open your office there? Theyll probably tell you because of family and friends.
Why is this office incorporated in your name if its part of a multinational network?
How much do you pay yourself a week? (they may go on to babble about tax ask them who they pay it to because its all cash in hand)
If we are all self employed how can we be working for this company when technically we work for ourselves?

Can I have my pay on a ledger sheet for both our tax purposes? (thatll make them sweat alright)

The list goes on.
To sum it up in a sentence;
The people who get suckered into this business you are not stupid you made a calculated risk that someone calculated for you. Youve been tricked like the rest of us have.
The people who are already in it Ask the questions I wrote above. Maybe ask them again in 2 weeks and record each answer. Kinda weird how you get a different answer from different people at different times isnt it? Also Get out of it while you can!
The people who are reading this for a little pre-interview research Dont bother showing up. Dont even waste a telephone call to say you wont, half them dont. If youve got real balls though attend the interview and slap this page on their desk.

Whoever you are and whatever youre doing. Good luck!!

Someone
Belfast
United Kingdom

Click here to read other Rip Off Reports on ds-max, dsmax, ds/max, granton marketing, cydcor