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Report: #142769

Complaint Review: Smart Marketing Solutions / Cobra Group PLC - LIVERPOOL Other

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  • Reported By: Liverpool Europe
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  • Smart Marketing Solutions / Cobra Group PLC 42 Whitechapel, Liverpool L1 6DZ LIVERPOOL, Other United Kingdom

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Propaganda and Brainwashing
How Cobra Reel you in
Chew you up
And Spit you out

A lot of you have written about your bad experiences with the Cobra Group but I felt the need to put my own feelings into words about my experiences there. What I write may be more long winded than most but it needs to be said. I still think it is important to express my fears to others but also to help me make sense of myself. The first part of the story is about how it all went so well for a time but read on to understand what I now feel and why; why I feel cheated, used and amazed at how I could have been so nave.

To start with I must say that I feel differently from most who have documented their stories on this page in that I enjoyed my time there and always felt positive about what I was doing. I did build a crew, run sectors, ring the bell a lot and even pick up a rising star award. So why have I left? Because as the Bible says: Where once I was blind, now I can see'. It all began in July 2004. I was stuck in a dead end job (the first I could get after university) when I picked up the Liverpool Echo and phoned a few jobs. Maybe it was fate that all three who booked me for interviews were Cobra. All seemed to offer just what I was looking for an opportunity, marketing and good money it seemed too good to be true, now I know that it was. I was asked to come back for my observation day the next week, none the wiser about what the job actually entailed. I was introduced to the leader Jamie (supposedly the right-hand man') and set out for the field. I was taken to the worst and roughest estate I had ever seen, and followed my leader on his door-to-door journey pitching for donations for the RSPCA. I enjoyed speaking with people and when I learned that my leader had made 80 in front of me I snapped at the chance, seduced by the money. It looked like exactly what I was after, I should have known better. I was told how I could start making 60 a day in my first couple of days and how my leader made 100 a day, the first in a whole string of lies.

From the very beginning, things were never easy but I persevered, seeing how much money I could make. Others around me were ringing the bell. How nave I was not to notice that out of 17 people in the office there were never 17 bell-ringers, usually 4 or 5. I was just too excited to notice. I carried on working and was promoted within 5 weeks. I was starting to make 300 a week; I was taken to Newcastle on a road trip and seemed to be going fantastically. During the next 2 months things went smoothly; week in week out I made 300 plus, three people left the business, two of them sacked (but now I am not so sure that they quit, as they were never mentioned again). That is when things began to change

To begin one of my closest friends in the business left for family reasons, then a top leader was sacked'. Within three weeks my leader and a woman to whom I had been close from the beginning, quit, as did two leaders who started around the same time as me. The office was falling apart. But foolish me, I believed it was their fault and that I could make it if I tried. The trusted and loyal FRs were never spoken of again, as though they had never existed. I hired the first person on my crew within a week of my leader leaving and had one of my best weeks for sales; I had the world at my feet (or so I thought), but things would never be the same again.

The remnants of the office continued, my owner Martin told us we would succeed where the others had failed. New people came and left just as quickly but I worked hard to build my own crew. But it was not as easy as I had been told; I had trouble ringing the bell while working with my crew. I was constantly told how easy the business was and that anyone could succeed; easier said than done. Nonetheless I worked hard, resulting in an invite to the future owners meeting' in Newcastle and a Rising Star Award in December 2004. The future owners meeting was supposed to be for crew managers and above but as only one leader had a first generation leader on their crew three of us went to hide the truth that getting to ownership was not the piece of cake it was made out to be. From my own perspective, it was a reward and the good times were right around the corner. But after Christmas it all changed

To start with I asked for 2 extra days off at Christmas so I could spend more time with my family who live abroad. My owner was not pleased and revealed how he had wanted us to work December 23rd and even Christmas Eve, on owner's stroke' on a 5 piece sell-out. Going door-to-door on Christmas Eve? Doubtless many of you will not be surprised by this. The idea was insane but Martin eventually apologised to us because we were not allowed to work Christmas Eve as though we wanted to anyway. When I left a day early Martin made sly comments in my presence about how he had never taken time off because he made too much money'. I was made to believe it was all about money and to feel an outcast for even suggesting it was not; for the first time, the web of deceit spun by Cobra was starting to bother me.

I returned to struggling sales and problems building a crew in a heavily diminished office. But I was still determined; I lost my crew but quickly got a new guy to train. He was positive and willing to learn and started well. But I had difficulty setting the pace for him. He did not see enough bell-ringing and consequently was stuck on 40 a day. The office was starting to grow again with new people coming in and sticking, but still, no one had more than one leader on their crew. It was becoming more and more apparent, just how hard and selective the road to success in Cobra really was.

Over the next month my own sales went up and down with the ups becoming fewer and fewer. Then one week my sales really dipped and ended with 220. The next week was worse with 210, then I put in a Herculean effort and made 270, then 200, 140 and 160. My owner's explanations and methods were inconsistent. He told me it would all be ok and had a go at me, told me I was just being lazy and I was trying too hard, that I needed a retrain and that I did not. In truth he just had no idea and in all probability did not even care. Eventually, with the situation falling apart he took me on a retrain, whereon I saw a side of Martin and the business I did not like. For weeks, Martin had lectured us on quality sales (i.e. not to sign up people who would clearly cancel their donation early) and saw him drop only 3 sales, one of them decidedly cheap'. The next day we both went through the field and I beat him but still did not ring the bell. The flaws and imperfections of the business were right under my nose now, and I was starting to see the business as it really was.

Despite all this my crew built, but a final week training a moron I only agreed to work with because I believed my owner's advice' and making 60 over two days left me seriously contemplating quitting. One final day trudging around the field taking negatives for nothing was simply the straw that broke the camel's back. I decided to leave and quit the next day. April 14th.

I did say that the start did not seem all that damning, but what happened next will shed some light on the months of lies, deceit, propaganda, brainwashing and stolen prayers. I arrived back at the office with my mind made up but the sight of my friends and my owner broke me, I just could not find the words to say it to them. So I decided to leave the next day. My friend Chris stopped me and dragged it all out of me, I told him I wanted to leave. He told 2 other leaders to try and talk me round and we went on a final night out. I got home, unplugged the phone, turned off my alarm and put my mobile on silent. I awoke to several missed calls and went in in the afternoon to quit in my own way. The administrator Natalia was as nice as could be and I will always remember her kindness. My owner was as angry as he had ever been. When I told him I was leaving, the man who had been friendly, positive, caring and promised so much turned around and said and I quote: Right, f### off, get out!'. He told me he had wanted to fire me anyway and spoke to me in a way I will never forget. He accused me of negging out the other leaders the night before'. The fact was that he could not face it that as one of the supposedly top guys I wanted to leave the business and the others might soon see why. I walked out, broken and bruised inside. Since then, I have had virtually no contact with my old friends', doubtless discouraged from seeing me. The bond return that had already been overdue when I left has still not been paid and I am being fobbed off whenever I ask.

During my time with Cobra I was brainwashed. I thought it could never happen but it did. I was told that the hit rate for ownership was 100%. But at the first pre-management meeting they admitted it was actually only half. As people left Martin admitted it was only about 1 in 10, law of averages you see! But after about 60 people having left and not 1 owner promoted by the time I handed in my badge (not even 1 crew manager) I now know it was about 1 in 100, and not even all of them make it. From day 1 everyone is told that by following the simple teachings of the company everyone can make it. No one is told that a natural sales ability is vital, as is great management skills, a favourable environment (territory, product etc) and a lot of luck. Case in point was the future owners meeting' in Newcastle in December 2004. The booklet boasted of the 4 offices already in the organisation and how 2 more were opening in February 2005, with a chance of double figures by August. Since then, one of the offices has shut, one of the new offices has failed to open as the assistant manager has lost virtually his whole crew and his own sales have plummeted. Another office has opened and is now down to one person working there! And that office is run by an owner who has lost on office already! The office I left has seen another of the top people leave since I quit with everyone else on moderate to low sales. This is typical of Cobra, promoting the nearly impossible to make people work harder.

People who leave Cobra are never mentioned, and if their name crops up some form of insult is attached. During my time Martin always promoted my leader Jamie, but when he quit he did nothing but insult him and bad mouth him in front of me and anyone else who knew him, doubtless he is now doing the same with me. This always bothered me as I was close to Jamie and very loyal to him, respecting him a lot. It even got to the point that towards the end only myself and another leader Owen remembered the old guard of the office, but Martin told everyone how he had started the office with me and Owen, a lie through and through. It could not be revealed that 50 or so people had left; failure could not even be mentioned. If the new people knew just how desperate the situation had become it might make them think twice. Thinking and analysing was always discouraged, which sounds like mental manipulation. I ask you, how strong can a business really be if it cannot even tolerate criticism or even simple thought and analysis?

The deceit was done differently. From Martin's perspective had had started the business in Manchester, moved his office' to Newcastle and then to Liverpool. Translation: He started knocking doors in Manchester went to a new office in Newcastle, got promoted and started his own door-knocking business in Liverpool. He tried to promote himself as a high flying executive instead of a good salesman who could not even spell, on a roll. He claimed that Barclays and Coca-Cola were his clients, not true at all. We worked for charities and only charities, but no one could be allowed to see the business as knocking on doors for charity as it was supposedly so much more. He claimed that fantastic, major charities were dying to work for us as a whole string of minor, unknown charities were handed to us. We were manipulated into saying we worked for a professional marketing company and Martin insisted on suits and ties at all times. Even taking off your suit jacket was discouraged; nothing could suggest that we were not the mindless cult of sheep following the megalomaniac dream of money at all costs in a dead end black hole that we really were. It was swept under the carpet as seeing the bigger picture' instead of lying to others and ourselves about our warped sense of self.

From the start we were bombarded by propaganda. The walls were plastered with biographies of vice-presidents, with no suggestion of owners that had failed. Bell ringers were read out each morning (when there were any!), no mention of those who had done badly, and of course doing no pieces could never happen (so it was claimed), talking production was discouraged as well; no one could talk about anything other than success. Bells was even worse; we were drummed into excitement to show our success, but funnily enough when sales dipped offices stopped doing bells for fear of embarrassment. Even talking remotely negative was forbidden, lest people discover the truth. Negativity is a natural human response and to deny it is not only unhealthy but also sneaky. Bulletin boards listing the most successful FRs in the country were up as well that is until the division's sales dipped sharply, no one could know that even the best were struggling. Pre-management meetings were billed as being a simple class in how the business worked, instead of a regular brainwashing session to remind people of why they worked so hard for so long on often so little money, emphasised by the fact that they always began by telling the story of how the business started and how wonderful it was. This to me reminds me of Big Brother in 1984, Our Ford' in Brave New World and of course real life instances like n**i Germany. Rallies were less a gathering of the successful as a pilgrimage to the land of worship of our leader. You will know it all already, Juice', LOA and bells, all served to turn us into cold machines, marching ever onward until we either made it or were chewed up and spat out, the latter being by far the more likely. It may sound extreme, but how different was the regional rally from the Nuremburg Rally? The bulletins and bell ringers only existing when they showed a positive message is alarmingly like the Nazis cutting broadcast of Max Schmelling's brutal defeat to Joe Louis from the air and is Juice not just Cobra's version of sieg heil? Even reading newspapers was forbidden, they won't help you to ring the bell'. The outside world did not matter in the Cobra Universe. As and intelligent an educated person, being asked to ignore the outside world was disturbing.

From the beginning, the effort insisted upon was covered up. We were all sold the job on the promise of a basic working day but starting and finishing later. Then it was revealed how much later we were required to work and Saturdays were thrown into the bargain. We were told it was about 11:30 to about 20:30' but every day we worked 10:30 to 21:30 at least (often earlier and later) and the quick Saturday sell-out was actually often a fruitless trudge through the field for pittance. We were denied any form of social life. Watching the football was unimportant (for a Liverpool supporter to miss every Champions League game on our way to the final was horrible), seeing other friends was unnecessary and taking care of other matters was frowned upon. I rarely saw my friends outside work and holidays were not popular. When we learned about working 70 hours a week we were reminded that we made so much money and we would soon be owners. Of course we rarely made as much as we were promised, and unless we rang the bell every day we were actually making as little as 4.20/hour! Think about it, what is 300 divided by 70 hours work? The division average was 240 per week or 3.42 per hour! And the lies about ownership are well-known to all here. It was often claimed that better jobs simply did not exist. Not for my owner who had no qualifications and could not even spell. Not for those whose only ambition is to knock doors for 2 years and then sit on their behind for 20 years using others for their own gain while they sit back for easy money. But for those who have been abused by Cobra, we now know better. Since leaving I took the first job I could find which is simply working in a call centre for British Gas. I do not enjoy it at all, it is very low paid and basic but after only four days of proper work I am already making as much money as I (or virtually anyone else) did or does in Cobra for 50% less hours! I made 320 in my first week on 45 hours! And I have a life outside work, holiday pay, no lies about the depth of the business. And this is a bottom of the pile job!

The effectiveness of the business was also covered up. In the charities division it should have been obvious that not everyone can afford to donate to charity, those who can have their limits and not everyone wants to, especially in the way we asked them. Working for unknown charities was tough and at the time of my leaving the territory was getting harder and harder to work. Newcastle is all but dried up after only 3 years and Liverpool will soon follow. Why else have divisions all but been wiped out? The clearance division is all but gone as is the advertising division, both pioneers of Cobra's legacy. But of course, no one talks about that, an office shutting down is never mentioned either, because obviously, there is an unlimited supply of territory and the product is never to blame. Just think realistically, in the charities division, going to frightfully poor areas will prove tough, but that is ignored with failure down to the FR in question just being soft'. But not even owners dared to prove us wrong. Martin claimed he stopped going in the field because he had recruitment work to do or to show how good being an owner was'. Can you believe that? The reality was that he had as much difficulty with the job as we did, but the difference was he never had to worry about money.

The way the business progressed was also deceptive. Interviews were nothing of the sort, they were idiot tests. Anyone with half a brain passed and was asked to come back for a 2nd interview'. The point of an interview is to look for the best people, but Cobra is not picky, anyone desperate for a job will do. As long as they can think and they are okay to follow others they will do. Once they are suckered in it is too late. Martin would tell as many as 4 observations at once that he was only looking to hire 1 of them while telling us he wanted all of them. He would then tell us to be his eyes and ears and see if they were good for the job. The 2nd interview' was simply an endurance test; anyone who made it back (i.e. not the ones who had the brains to see the business for what it was and run a mile) was accepted, regardless of how bad they were, they were all thrown into the Cobra grinder and processed into money for the owner. Even when we told Martin how the observations were not what we were supposed to be looking for Martin hired them anyway. He was not looking for the best, just anyone to line his pockets.

We were also lied to about our bond. Because I started in a satellite office of Newcastle my first 3 months bond was frozen and due back on March 17th. The Newcastle administrator Keri told me it would take a couple of weeks to sort it out with the hub manager. Two months later and I am still waiting. When I phoned her to ask what was happening she said there were still things to be sorted out with Martin and others and the hub manager. She refused to tell me what needed to be sorted out or give me the hub manager's number claiming I did not need it'. Out of the business and easy to fob off, I will fight to the bitter end for my bond back.

In the end we were conned into the position, told lies about the business and how it worked, lied to about the hours, the money and the likelihood of making it to ownership. Once in we were bombarded by propaganda that would have made the Nazis wince, brainwashed into working ourselves to death for the promise of big money that for the vast majority would never come. Some make it, but most end up being chewed up and spat out broken and poor, discarded and forgotten by the very business that claimed to care for them and that they were taught to admire. I did enjoy it first, I loved it even, but it's true what they say, what you love, really does destroy you.

P.S. If you have been offered a job in or currently work for Cobra then do not let them use you, get out while you still can. There are much better jobs for you. And no matter your age, background, experience, qualifications or abilities, believe me, you are worth better.

Alex
Liverpool
United Kingdom

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 05/15/2005 07:49 AM and is a permanent record located here: https://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/smart-marketing-solutions-cobra-group-plc/liverpool-other-l1-6dz/smart-marketing-solutions-cobra-group-plc-propaganda-and-brainwashing-how-cobra-reel-you-142769. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year. Ripoff Report has an exclusive license to this report. It may not be copied without the written permission of Ripoff Report. READ: Foreign websites steal our content

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#6 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Cobra Marketing is a centre for Sales excellence!

AUTHOR: Fearghal - (Ireland)

POSTED: Wednesday, November 04, 2009

I have read so many reports on Cobra just like this one and each always makes me laugh a little, I too used to drink the Cobra cool-aide and I like it! 

Unlike most people who start working in Cobra, I had been an entrepreneur for almost 6 years before I started with them. I have run a number of successful enterprises and learned how to run business through the school of hard knocks. There was no wool pulled over my eyes when I joined Cobra in Galway, I knew why I was there, I knew the type of business Cobra was and I knew what I ultimate exit strategy was to be if I stayed in the business long enough to become an owner or organisational head. I also knew what I wanted out of Cobra if before I left that could happen.

Regardless of anyones experience, it has to be stated that Cobra provide the perfect atmosphere for sales to take place. They cocoon you in sales Psychology that makes you believe in the business and your ability sell and hit any goal if your willing to work hard for it. They provide you with hard earned Sales knowledge and give people a taste of a real Entreprenuers life is like and that's not a life everyone wants. Cobra genuinely want you to succeed and are willing to give you every piece of advise and help to get you there. You have to do the hard part and actually do it though, which is hard. It's not like running business is the same as winning the lottery, you have to work hard and sales is very hard if your not prepaired or in the right frame of mind.

Sure there is attrition, if you work in Cobra, you are working in Sales and news flash, sales staff turn over is usually very very high. Things do seem a little surreal at times, like part of your brain is telling you something is wrong with this picture but the cobra training is telling you to ignore it and this has been learned from years of selling and thousands of sales people have used these techniques because they work. This is to anyone who has worked for Cobra, select a number of guide books to selling. Pick a random topic and read it and you will find that it will talk about the topics you learned in Cobra. Why? Because cobra teach the best forms of sales techniques and if you can't see that then you must be blind.

To anyone who is considering taking a job with cobra. Take it, maybe you won't earn an earth shattering amount of money. However you will learn more than you can imagine about selling and it will be worth every minute.

 

PS. I no longer work for Cobra for personal reasons. But I took the training I recieved from cobra and went back and resurrected one of my old businesses and now I employ three people and am very happy I took the time to experience Cobra. They trully have the best sales training in the world.

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#5 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Legacy Corp, Cobra Group, Osborn Street London Aldagate East, client of NPOWER

AUTHOR: Hop Along Kermit - (France)

POSTED: Thursday, November 06, 2008

I was moved by your stories.
I am a frenchman, I came to London 7 years ago for a gap year during my studies, basically to improve my English skills and perhaps find a great opportunity in this amazing hectic city.
After a fortnight, my financial resources I had spared to prepare my stay in London became scarce. That's when I found an eyecatching job offer to work for a direct marketing office called "Legacy Corp" in Osborn street, near famous Brick Lane in London's trendy east end.
Just like you all described it, the first interview was very relaxed. Miguel, the manager, handsome and confident, introduced me to a team leader, Bert. Most of the best "sellers" really looked like entertainers, they all had a lot of charisma for sure. My french accent didn't help but I could talk and understand English properly so they accepted to give me a chance on the field. Some of the most charismatic guys were nice to me, helping me out in the field, giving me tips, such as helpful idiomatic expressions.
On the first day, my training manager, Bert, made like 100 so easily I thought I could at least make half of this.
But my first week was a disaster. I hardly made 1 sale : 12. less than the daily expenses for a one day travelcard + lunch ! After 3 weeks I could earn just enough to pay the rent and food and transport. I didn't spare 1 and lost my time and energy. I was so stressful, and it took all my time so I couldn't even search for other jobs. I was impressed by some of the guys who had both charm and confidence. I wished I could do as well as they did. Some of them really could make a fortune being tv presentators. But I had other skills and other plans, go back to studies more seriously than ever. I never want to feel desperate again like I did those days. I'll never knock doors again.
What I regret is that I made no long term friends there, I left one day knowing everyone would think I was not made for this... which was true..

Hop along Kermit

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#4 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Getting Ripped Off By Cobra Plc

AUTHOR: Tinkerbell12345 - (United Kingdom)

POSTED: Saturday, January 12, 2008

When i first started for Zenith Force Wolverhampton, I was told about this brilliant job, with brilliant money with brilliant prospects. What i found was totally different.


When i first went for the interview at Zenith Force the first person i met was Kate the administrator, she seemed really nice and friendly. I then met Adam the owner who seemed just as nice. When Adam invited me back for a trial day the next day I was excited that i had finally found a company that was willing to give me a job with no experience and no qualifications. I went back the following day for my trial day where I was introduced to Gavid (who apparmtly was Adams eyes and ears of the office). Gavid seemed really friendly he explained that we were going to a local area to promote one of their major clients. He explained that he would explain everything and answer any questions i had when we reached a local pub. When we got to the pub Gavid explained how "easy" it was to make 100 a day. He then showed me all the clients that we would be representing. Then Gavid went through the wonderful prospects and how easy it was to move through to ownership. I thought brilliant a "career" where i don't need any experience or any qualifications. I went around with Gavid for the whole day watching him make over 60 for the day. We went back to the office where i had my final interview and was offered the position.

When i finally got my badge i was sent out with Gavid and 2 other members on the team. I did fairly well for my first day making 4 sales and making over 100. Maybe this is what clouded my judgement of the company. Over the next few weeks my slaes went up and down and all Adam and Gavid said to me is that i was looking for sales and not having fun.

This continued and i finally managed to get promoted to leadership. I started building my crew and lost them all which really damaged my confidence and whether this company was what it was made out to be but i stuck it out doing really well some weeks and really bad other weeks. In the end adam suggested i moved into the company house, so i did and my sales picked up a bit.

Then i was really ill and couldnt work Adam was really funny with me and i saw a total different side to him. When i went back i had some famiy problems so once again i was unable to work.

When i went back to work again i had adam call me in the office to discuss things that had gone on at the company house in other words people making up things backstabbing. Then i realised what sort of company this really was. I told adam i was moving back home as i felt that i couldnt trust the people i lived with, he then asked if this was wat i wanted to do and i ended up leaving.

I was there over 8 months and not once in that time did i see anybody promoted to Owner, Assistant owner, Crew Leader or even premier club. Over christmas i spoke to my cousins boyfriend who also used to work for Zenith and he was spun the same tale i was. I've been left a while now and im still waiting for my bond money deep down i know ill never see that again. I just hope people who read this realise how cobra really work.

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#3 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Bond Return

AUTHOR: Sandy - (United Kingdom)

POSTED: Monday, July 25, 2005

Hi there,

Sorry you had such a bad experience with the company. I myself worked as an administrator, and whilst I agree with you on the long hours, crappy job, no friends etc rules it was a pretty cool place to work for me (different for admins though).

Just thought I would let you know that your bond is most definately returnable to you, you have the law on your side (I hope you still have the contract). I would ring Cobra head office and pester them to pester the office in question (always gets them in the bad books with Cobra - good start), also if you know them, get in contact with the Hub (they hate being contacted by anyone but the people in the office). Failing that, just turn up at the office when its busiest, or when interviews are waiting - that can't fail to work as they will just want to get rid of you. It only takes at the most 1 week to order the money back so you stand your ground and get your money.

My office was actually quite good with this type of thing (mainly because I returned them and pestered the owner myself as I didn't want to be held responsible for anything that could get me into trouble).

So - hope all goes well, and just PESTER PESTER PESTER.

Good luck !

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#2 UPDATE EX-employee responds

Germany is starting the bizz

AUTHOR: Antonio - (Germany)

POSTED: Tuesday, May 31, 2005

Hi Alex,

Your report reminds me very much of my present situation right now. I left cobra, in this case tuscan marketing, 1 month ago, won an sales award, had 3 people on my cru, went on roadtrips, and was on the high rollers list several times.

I was in the first office in germany, owner was michael scully, whom you might know, my leader was steven von trundle. I heard the same things everyone in the company did, and I will write my own, more accurate report when I find time, because i am currently working in a call center like you do. I just wanna point out that it is fun working there, while you work there and do sales, but read my report and you will find out why my opinion of the bizz an especialy steven von trundle is not a very good one, and why it isnt if you don't creep your owners a*s up.

The Animal (A Name given to me in the company (make me feel special!),thanks steven!)

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#1 Author of original report

PROPAGANDA AND BRAINWASHING

AUTHOR: Alex - (United Kingdom)

POSTED: Monday, May 23, 2005

I should note that I was recently contacted by the company apologising for some of what they have done which I do appreciate. However it cannot change many of the things I feel. I have also received the previous bonus money (eventually) after repeatedly pestering them. I do not wish to hurt anyone with this report but instead to let them know how I feel. What is presented as an opinion is nothing more but it is my opinion and you can stay what you like but I stand by what I say.

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