StormPay.com - Autosurfing Programs Such As 24dailypro, 12dailypro Now seem to be in bed together in the ripoff scheme Clarkesville Tennessee

Really your attempts at pulling me to pieces are truly pathetic!

If you had BOTHERED to READ my post correctly, you'll have seen that I did indeed withdraw over $17,000 from StormPay, with another $20,000+ nine days before.

The reason the amount was so little that StormPay sent back to 12DailyPonzi, is that I had taken my money out just in time.

I'm surprised to have to explain this a second time to someone with your intelligence and wit Jill. Oh, but then again, I'll probably end up explaining it again, and again, and...

My 'made up life'? Really Jill, you think my life is totally made up? HA!

Well, if you think 15 years of hard work to change a life is 'made up', that's up to you.

I don't 'troll' this site either, as you would know if you bothered to look around. I've put other posts on this site yes, but only for ONE other company which I also had to defend from morons like you.

Sincerely, I doubt that you have a good life, because you're too busy trying to bust the chops of those that know the REALITY of life, with your fictitious facts and imagination!

Jill my dear prozac-popping friend, I feel truly sorry for you and your kind, because you'll never know the true feeling of financial freedom.

I still have my morals about business, and indeed, having a conscienceous mind about doing business has gotten me into trouble several times when I've refused to partake in anything that may hurt others financially.

Despite you saying you wish bad things for me, I wish only good things for you Jill. Really I do. Because only be having good things happen, can you appreciate the efforts of others.
Until then, shut up, get a life (because you don't have one despite your own belief in your own bullpoop!), and instead of putting down those of us that are successful after EARNING IT, ask yourself how you can do the same!

You say you won't be back in these posts, but I bet you are. People like you just can't help yourselves! You'll want to get the last word in I'm sure!

Anyway, another $900+ in StormPay today - they're still in business Jill, but where is the 12DailyPonzi site now?
NOWHERE!
It won't even load up!
Why is that Jill?
Hello?...Jill?....Are you there Jill?...

Shucks....she must have run off with Charis Johnson and the millions of dollars of 12DP members' money!

You are a funny little man Bern, where have I been hiding you ask? I don't hide I was somewhere other than trolling this site, you see I do in fact have a life and a very nice one thank you very much. You see unlike you I don't need to create an imaginary life and fill it full of insane lies in a pathetic attempt to impress my fans here on Ripoffreport.com.

You dig your own grave every time you post pal. You claim to have made $2.6 million last year but anyone with half a brain can pick your post apart and tell you're lying.
Come on be real if you really made that much money you wouldn't have said...
Fortunately, unlike thousands of others, I only lost a few $$$ in 12DP, but the hopes and financial dreams of myself, my wife and our friends, have been smashed...
OR this...
Also, I can't get into the forum anymore to demand answers to where my money is!..(you really that worried about all $5.49 Bern lol?)...
or how about this...
Oh, and FYI...to date, I have approximately $17,300+ in my StormPay account - not bad considering just 9 days ago I transferred another $20,000+ to my bank account"
that really caught my eye considering you said this a few days BEFORE...
"I don't expect I'll get my money back from either StormPay or 12DP
make up your mind...lol

You stated in one of your other rants somewhere else that you don't even have an interest in 12DP or StormPay...so I'm completely befuddled as to why you're even abusing them!

Now I'm going to say this for the last time and IF you choose to bring it up again it will just prove to everyone just how much of a moron you truly are considering I've said this before,...
I DO have an interest in Stormpay, they stole my money not 12Dailypro, so I don't want to see you putting words in my mouth anymore by saying I support 12Dailypro because to be honest I do hope Charis goes to jail and all the people that made money from 12Dailypro have to repay it back.
So if you are telling the truth about that money you supposedly made ala 12Dailypro that means you.

You see Bern I'm not as stupid as you claim and I'm sure most of this forum can see what a fake YOU really areit's not that difficult to spot.

Remember this Bern, you can point fingers but 3 more are pointing right back at you!

Jill, go back to the original thread and read my latest postings to know where my 2.6mil came from okay dear?

Then, go outside and take a look at what you've got...probably not much, but go outside and look around anyway.
Then, go back inside, sit down with a pen and pad, and write down just exactly what you would LIKE to have, but CAN'T afford right now!

THEN, tell yourself that you CAN have the better things in life, if only you apply yourself to getting them...

Oh, no wait...sorry, my bad, what was I thinking!? I was expecting you to have the ability to actually be able to THINK!

So I'm a 'scammer' am I? Hmmm...interesting, yet...if I'm a scammer, and you reckon StormPay is a scammer, and you reckon that Charis Johnson is NOT a scammer...answer me this: how come then StormPay is NOT under investigation for scamming, and neither am I, but Charis Johnson and 12DailyPro ARE under investigation?

Y'see Jill...unlike you, I don't need to hide anything, or belittle those that don't deserve it. And I'm not talking about you [trying] to belittle people like me and Mark, with your obvious pathetic attempts to do so, I'm talking about you and Carl attacking StormPay without any reason to do so.

You stated in one of your other rants somewhere else that you don't even have an interest in 12DP or StormPay...so I'm completely befuddled as to why you're even abusing them!

Oh wait!, I know what it is now, you're like that fat christian woman that was on TV last year, screaming abuse at her family, with no reason to do so, thinking that everyone is of the devil and so on! That's the image that comes to mind when I read your posts anyhow.

Hey...say what you like about me...I'M RICH...so what the hell do I care?
Actually, as you'll have noticed in my posts if you could read words of more than 3 letters or 2 syllables, I do care that 12DP and Charis Johnson, NEVER EVER get another chance to rip people off again and leave their lives in tatters!
But that's something people like you just hate to admit - that CJ is doing that!

Go read my post on the other rant, and you'll see why there was only a small amount of money went out from my StormPay account...then...SHUT THE HELL UP! :-)

Oh, and FYI...to date, I have approximately $17,300+ in my StormPay account - not bad considering just 9 days ago I transferred another $20,000+ to my bank account!

LIFE IS GOOD! If you have one...but you don't, so....

Jill, go back to the original thread and read my latest postings to know where my 2.6mil came from okay dear?

Then, go outside and take a look at what you've got...probably not much, but go outside and look around anyway.
Then, go back inside, sit down with a pen and pad, and write down just exactly what you would LIKE to have, but CAN'T afford right now!

THEN, tell yourself that you CAN have the better things in life, if only you apply yourself to getting them...

Oh, no wait...sorry, my bad, what was I thinking!? I was expecting you to have the ability to actually be able to THINK!

So I'm a 'scammer' am I? Hmmm...interesting, yet...if I'm a scammer, and you reckon StormPay is a scammer, and you reckon that Charis Johnson is NOT a scammer...answer me this: how come then StormPay is NOT under investigation for scamming, and neither am I, but Charis Johnson and 12DailyPro ARE under investigation?

Y'see Jill...unlike you, I don't need to hide anything, or belittle those that don't deserve it. And I'm not talking about you [trying] to belittle people like me and Mark, with your obvious pathetic attempts to do so, I'm talking about you and Carl attacking StormPay without any reason to do so.

You stated in one of your other rants somewhere else that you don't even have an interest in 12DP or StormPay...so I'm completely befuddled as to why you're even abusing them!

Oh wait!, I know what it is now, you're like that fat christian woman that was on TV last year, screaming abuse at her family, with no reason to do so, thinking that everyone is of the devil and so on! That's the image that comes to mind when I read your posts anyhow.

Hey...say what you like about me...I'M RICH...so what the hell do I care?
Actually, as you'll have noticed in my posts if you could read words of more than 3 letters or 2 syllables, I do care that 12DP and Charis Johnson, NEVER EVER get another chance to rip people off again and leave their lives in tatters!
But that's something people like you just hate to admit - that CJ is doing that!

Go read my post on the other rant, and you'll see why there was only a small amount of money went out from my StormPay account...then...SHUT THE HELL UP! :-)

Oh, and FYI...to date, I have approximately $17,300+ in my StormPay account - not bad considering just 9 days ago I transferred another $20,000+ to my bank account!

LIFE IS GOOD! If you have one...but you don't, so....

Jill, go back to the original thread and read my latest postings to know where my 2.6mil came from okay dear?

Then, go outside and take a look at what you've got...probably not much, but go outside and look around anyway.
Then, go back inside, sit down with a pen and pad, and write down just exactly what you would LIKE to have, but CAN'T afford right now!

THEN, tell yourself that you CAN have the better things in life, if only you apply yourself to getting them...

Oh, no wait...sorry, my bad, what was I thinking!? I was expecting you to have the ability to actually be able to THINK!

So I'm a 'scammer' am I? Hmmm...interesting, yet...if I'm a scammer, and you reckon StormPay is a scammer, and you reckon that Charis Johnson is NOT a scammer...answer me this: how come then StormPay is NOT under investigation for scamming, and neither am I, but Charis Johnson and 12DailyPro ARE under investigation?

Y'see Jill...unlike you, I don't need to hide anything, or belittle those that don't deserve it. And I'm not talking about you [trying] to belittle people like me and Mark, with your obvious pathetic attempts to do so, I'm talking about you and Carl attacking StormPay without any reason to do so.

You stated in one of your other rants somewhere else that you don't even have an interest in 12DP or StormPay...so I'm completely befuddled as to why you're even abusing them!

Oh wait!, I know what it is now, you're like that fat christian woman that was on TV last year, screaming abuse at her family, with no reason to do so, thinking that everyone is of the devil and so on! That's the image that comes to mind when I read your posts anyhow.

Hey...say what you like about me...I'M RICH...so what the hell do I care?
Actually, as you'll have noticed in my posts if you could read words of more than 3 letters or 2 syllables, I do care that 12DP and Charis Johnson, NEVER EVER get another chance to rip people off again and leave their lives in tatters!
But that's something people like you just hate to admit - that CJ is doing that!

Go read my post on the other rant, and you'll see why there was only a small amount of money went out from my StormPay account...then...SHUT THE HELL UP! :-)

Oh, and FYI...to date, I have approximately $17,300+ in my StormPay account - not bad considering just 9 days ago I transferred another $20,000+ to my bank account!

LIFE IS GOOD! If you have one...but you don't, so....

Jill, go back to the original thread and read my latest postings to know where my 2.6mil came from okay dear?

Then, go outside and take a look at what you've got...probably not much, but go outside and look around anyway.
Then, go back inside, sit down with a pen and pad, and write down just exactly what you would LIKE to have, but CAN'T afford right now!

THEN, tell yourself that you CAN have the better things in life, if only you apply yourself to getting them...

Oh, no wait...sorry, my bad, what was I thinking!? I was expecting you to have the ability to actually be able to THINK!

So I'm a 'scammer' am I? Hmmm...interesting, yet...if I'm a scammer, and you reckon StormPay is a scammer, and you reckon that Charis Johnson is NOT a scammer...answer me this: how come then StormPay is NOT under investigation for scamming, and neither am I, but Charis Johnson and 12DailyPro ARE under investigation?

Y'see Jill...unlike you, I don't need to hide anything, or belittle those that don't deserve it. And I'm not talking about you [trying] to belittle people like me and Mark, with your obvious pathetic attempts to do so, I'm talking about you and Carl attacking StormPay without any reason to do so.

You stated in one of your other rants somewhere else that you don't even have an interest in 12DP or StormPay...so I'm completely befuddled as to why you're even abusing them!

Oh wait!, I know what it is now, you're like that fat christian woman that was on TV last year, screaming abuse at her family, with no reason to do so, thinking that everyone is of the devil and so on! That's the image that comes to mind when I read your posts anyhow.

Hey...say what you like about me...I'M RICH...so what the hell do I care?
Actually, as you'll have noticed in my posts if you could read words of more than 3 letters or 2 syllables, I do care that 12DP and Charis Johnson, NEVER EVER get another chance to rip people off again and leave their lives in tatters!
But that's something people like you just hate to admit - that CJ is doing that!

Go read my post on the other rant, and you'll see why there was only a small amount of money went out from my StormPay account...then...SHUT THE HELL UP! :-)

Oh, and FYI...to date, I have approximately $17,300+ in my StormPay account - not bad considering just 9 days ago I transferred another $20,000+ to my bank account!

LIFE IS GOOD! If you have one...but you don't, so....

I think youre as bad as stormpay, you cracked me up with the statement "And even though StormPay took my $5.49 and sent it BACK to 12DP as a 'chargeback', I've yet to receive a d**n penny from 12DP, or indeed, any notification that it's been paid back!

Fortunately, unlike thousands of others, I only lost a few $$$ in 12DP, but the hopes and financial dreams of myself, my wife and our friends, have been smashed.

I thought you made 2.6 million last year bern? what a liar...people this guy is a scammer himself. Just read his off the wall responses to the other 12 daily pro reports...what a tool.

"Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."-HL Mencken

How did you figure this plan would work? You deposit a few hundred dollars, and then you'd double that in a week(12%/day X 7 days)? If it worked, I'd sell everything I owned, invest it, and just keep doubling my money each week for a year. I'd be the world's richest man in less time than that. If you actually read everything in the sites, they tell you you have to keep "investing" more money every week. Some investment strategy...keep donating to the cause, and watch your money shrink.

Anyway...the main reason Ponzi scheems are illegal is quite simple. The Federal Government doesn't like the competition. Social Security is nothing more, and nothing less, than Ponzi with the power of the Government to collect the money.

Look, let's get something straight here. Although StormPay is no saint, I've had successful business with them for a couple of years. I was one of the first members to join when they started out in competition with ebay, and have seen them grow successfully.
Knowing the Ponzi scheme well, I can fully understand why StormPay is doing what it is to 12DailyPro.
However, 12DailyPro states that they get funds from 'outside' sources, such as advertising and investing, OTHER than the investing from those of us stupid enough to believe in Charis Johnson!

Lately she claims that there are not enough funds to give refunds to everyone. And those of us that live abroad, CANNOT use EMO as a payment option! She knows this! There are also MANY MANY MANY other payment options she could use - Moneybookers; NeTeller; and a whole host of others. But has she even bothered to try and set up a new account to allow us to get our money back? Hell NO!

And even though StormPay took my $5.49 and sent it BACK to 12DP as a 'chargeback', I've yet to receive a d**n penny from 12DP, or indeed, any notification that it's been paid back!
Fortunately, unlike thousands of others, I only lost a few $$$ in 12DP, but the hopes and financial dreams of myself, my wife and our friends, have been smashed.

12DP has also cancelled the convention it was supposed to have in North Carolina this week, trying to use stupid bloody excuses such as 'a risk of extreme violence', 'terrorism a possibility', 'possible riots not unlike those of the muslim cartoons' (all comments found on the 12DP forum). Also, I can't get into the forum anymore to demand answers to where my money is!

I also believe that Charis Johnson was indicted several years ago for a similar venture, where she stole thousands of dollars of investors money, and yet the 12DP brainwashed state that this was 'another' Charis! Oh please!

I don't expect I'll get my money back from either StormPay or 12DP, but I do know that so far, StormPay seems totally legit, whereas 12DP is now nothing more to me than a 'thank goodness I didn't lose thousands' scam!

The suggestion that the auto-surf programs(like 12dailypro,24dailypro.DadnDaves and many others are in bed to defaud everyone's money in this current"scam" just does not add up.

1) Why would any auto-surf program allow itself to be branded "ponzi, pyramid,etc" and therefore illegal. That's is end of its business! Kaput!

2) Why would 12dailypro....for one...bed with Stormpay? Do you know 12dailypro has been doing so well that it has not missed a payment to its members since its inception in July 2005?

3) How to get so many auto-surf program operators to agree on any terms if Stormpay wants them to scam the customers as a joint-venture?

4) Why share the pie?! Yes WHY?

Yes we all have our money stolen not by the auto-surf program operators but the one handling the transactions!( I myself am looking at a loss of $6k)


Let me first give you a little background of Stormpay "position":

Together with e-gold, stormpay was the payment processor endorsing and actively promoting auto-surf programs and high-yield investment programs
(HYIPs) in 2005 or even earlier.

Recent research revealed that Stormpay has been charged with operating a ponzi-type program in August 2003.( ref_1)

Stormpay has to be expert in determining if a program is "ponzi" or not,one would have thought.

Yet, they continue to endorse and be actively involved with many of the HYIPs which I soon learned are mostly "ponzi" games.

Why? With the hot activities these programs generate, the transaction fees were really good!


Against this background, let's look at the recent events:

In Nov/Dec 2005,there were reports that FBI was digging into e-gold....as someone might have alleged .....that terrorists were using it to launder and fund its terrorists' activities.

Next, came the mysterious raids on some HYIPs(especially)which had been using e-gold goldcoder scripts to run e-gold transactions.(Early Jan 2006)

Many HYIPs using e-gold were badly disrupted. The operator/s of the then darling of HYIP,5daysfund took the
opportunity and disappeared with members' deposits totally $35 mil (a highly inflated figure ,no doubt for a ponzi...even a fraction of that is a lot of money!)

That was a major shock to the HYIP community (including SP, I believe)......."inspiration number one...)

The other element was the phenomenal success of 12dailypro...the number one auto-surf programs for many months running.

The amount of money coursing through a payment processor (Stormpay,here) is just staggering!(Greed could have reared its ugly head here...)

Back to the unfolding drama;

In view of the vulnerabilites of e-gold, Stormpay announced that they would not associate with any programs still using e-gold as co-payment processor.

Out of not much choice, may auto-surf programs and HYIPs dumped e-gold.

12dailypro decide to replace e-gold with EMO.
With the lower fees EMO offered, many SP accounts holders decided to join EMO. 12dp asked Stormpay for its own fund kept in SP corporate accounts. SP dragged its feet.....so it seemed.

Greed turned into a monster:
SP suddenly gave every auto-surf programs and HYIPs a few hour-ultimatum:
Stormpay would only be prepared to be the sole payment processor.......
(Stormpay would NOT be interested to be a co payment processor to any program)
Everyone panicked and many if not all succumbed to this outrageous blackmail! 12dailypro reluctanly gave in.

When everyone "finally got in", the green monster slammed its ugly mouth shut and started spewing out slime: Stormpay froze the corporate accounts of all these auto-surf and HYIP programs and started the campaign of labelling them all as "ponzis, pyramids, what have you etc." to justify its action. (NOW DON'T TELL ME IT WAS NOT PREP-PLANNED!(ref_2)

That sent seismic wave through the whole AS and HYIP community as due payments froze in mid-air.
Many HYIPs were brought to their knees and many folded soon after.

Many auto-surf programs held out due to the faithful members.(DadnDave operators were reported to have dug into their own personal savings to pay its members...hundreds of thousands worth)

Whilst the private individual members of various auto-surf progams were re-evaluating their predicaments, their personal fund DISAPPEARED beneath their noses when Stormpay decided to "chargeback" their earnings to the respective
programs!

And all this while Stormpay continued to deny the AS and HYIP operators access to their funds.

If you visit forums like moneymakergroup.com, you will realize the accounting mess Stormpay has created........(apart from the anguish and anger....) What for?

1)The mess would cover whatever "tracks" SP would have taken.
2) The mess would create division and strife between the members and the respective program operators causing confusion, in-fighting,etc.
3) When the books are finally opened, most of the fund would not be there. SP could then triumphantly announced that there were not much there in the first place...as it had alleged earlier.... because they are all ponzis, pyramids, etc, etc anyway! (Real neat!)

WHY WOULD SP WANT TO DO THAT-since the transaction fees it's been collecting (practically every other seconds) had to be very substantial?

Ok folks, the stakes are very high....hundreds of millions:

let me start with 12dailypro:

12dp has 300,000 members.assuming that 50% upgrade actively at $200 each, that is cool $30mil . If these people upgrade again with $200, its another $30mil. In terms of 12dp time frame, one could effectively achieve a 2.5 circle in a month. In other words, its a cool $75 mil a month business.

12dp itself probably built up a coffers since August 2005. To ensure its smooth running(12dp has not missed a payment to its members since inception), 12dp would have normally kept spare funds as floats to pay members and to cover emergencies....maybe 1 month worth, that is another $75 mil

Assuming that these 150000 members kept $200 of their earnings to fund the next circle, its another $30mil.

What was available for "manipulation" totals $(30+75+30)=$135 mil.

Folks, that is for 12dailypro alone!
What about the other auto-surf programs?

Where would the money (belonging to members) charged-backed those defunct HYIPs....go? Think.
(Most of these operators could have decided to cut their loss(as it were) and get away knowing that they could not defend the allegation of ponzi being foisted on them.

How much money are we all talking about?
Only Stormpay knows.
Individual operators has to come forward with their accounts to verify the figures.
Only stormpay know how much of individual earnings are being charged back!

What is sad in this whole fiasco precipitated by SP action is this:

SP has destroyed the dreams and lives of many especially for those who has depended on the faithfulness of 12dailypro.

Sp has also seriously damaged the cornerstone of online business: the dependenble and certain role of payment processor in online businesses.

How do I know my money funded by my credit card would not disappear due to the whims of the payment processor? How to TRUST the integrity of the one who handles my fund anymore?

Until the MEDIA and the Authority focus on the issues raised here, I am afraid there is going to be miscarriage of justice.

The love of justice is what make US great. Remember this is not American business per_sec, this is online business. The world community looks to US for leadership!

Folks, many( hundreds of thousands)are waiting for some definite answers:

I just raise some of the questions.

Thank you for reading and God Bless.

Modern-day firm brings to mind 1920 Ponzi scheme

Feb. 20, 2006 12:00 AM

I think I'm finally beginning to understand the Ponzi mentality.

Charles Ponzi's claim to fame is that he created an investment scheme back in 1920. He told investors they could make big money through his program of buying and selling international postal coupons. It turns out he never actually bought or sold any coupons. He paid off early investors with money from later investors. As the early investors told of their incredible profits, more people rushed in with money. At one point he was taking in a quarter of a million dollars per day!

It nearly collapsed several times. Ponzi managed to calm investors with his charm each time. Before it was over, 17,000 people invested millions. Nearly all of it was lost. The term "Ponzi scheme" lives on in infamy.
I was thinking of Ponzi as I read about a company called 12DailyPro. It's a North Carolina Web site that promised people a 12 percent daily return on their membership fee. The money would supposedly come from a combination of autosurfing (watching Internet ads), outside investments and from other member's fees.

12DailyPro is in crisis because of reports that the FBI and the Securities Exchange Commission have started investigations. The company that handled its cash has frozen the account. Right now, there are all kinds of counterclaims about who is at fault and whether it is a Ponzi scheme.

In the center of it all are lots of investors who are doggedly defending 12DailyPro. I've read their comments on both the company's online forum and other Web sites. They're either early investors who made money and want to make more, or they're sure that first payout is just around the corner. All they need is those stupid investigators to get out of the way and the media to stop its negative reporting.

No one seems to mention that there is no real foundation for the 12 percent daily profit. Somehow the company has magically figured out a way to produce incredible profits without buying or selling anything significant.

Back in 1920 there were plenty of people who defended Charles Ponzi long after his scheme had collapsed. I used to wonder how that could be. After watching the debate over 12DailyPro, I think I understand.

-------
Reach Call 12 for Action from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. weekdays at (602) 260-1212 or 1-866-260-1212.

Dave Cherry Call 12 Mailbag

Modern-day firm brings to mind 1920 Ponzi scheme

Feb. 20, 2006 12:00 AM

I think I'm finally beginning to understand the Ponzi mentality.

Charles Ponzi's claim to fame is that he created an investment scheme back in 1920. He told investors they could make big money through his program of buying and selling international postal coupons. It turns out he never actually bought or sold any coupons. He paid off early investors with money from later investors. As the early investors told of their incredible profits, more people rushed in with money. At one point he was taking in a quarter of a million dollars per day!

It nearly collapsed several times. Ponzi managed to calm investors with his charm each time. Before it was over, 17,000 people invested millions. Nearly all of it was lost. The term "Ponzi scheme" lives on in infamy.
I was thinking of Ponzi as I read about a company called 12DailyPro. It's a North Carolina Web site that promised people a 12 percent daily return on their membership fee. The money would supposedly come from a combination of autosurfing (watching Internet ads), outside investments and from other member's fees.

12DailyPro is in crisis because of reports that the FBI and the Securities Exchange Commission have started investigations. The company that handled its cash has frozen the account. Right now, there are all kinds of counterclaims about who is at fault and whether it is a Ponzi scheme.

In the center of it all are lots of investors who are doggedly defending 12DailyPro. I've read their comments on both the company's online forum and other Web sites. They're either early investors who made money and want to make more, or they're sure that first payout is just around the corner. All they need is those stupid investigators to get out of the way and the media to stop its negative reporting.

No one seems to mention that there is no real foundation for the 12 percent daily profit. Somehow the company has magically figured out a way to produce incredible profits without buying or selling anything significant.

Back in 1920 there were plenty of people who defended Charles Ponzi long after his scheme had collapsed. I used to wonder how that could be. After watching the debate over 12DailyPro, I think I understand.

-------
Reach Call 12 for Action from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. weekdays at (602) 260-1212 or 1-866-260-1212.

Dave Cherry Call 12 Mailbag

Modern-day firm brings to mind 1920 Ponzi scheme

Feb. 20, 2006 12:00 AM

I think I'm finally beginning to understand the Ponzi mentality.

Charles Ponzi's claim to fame is that he created an investment scheme back in 1920. He told investors they could make big money through his program of buying and selling international postal coupons. It turns out he never actually bought or sold any coupons. He paid off early investors with money from later investors. As the early investors told of their incredible profits, more people rushed in with money. At one point he was taking in a quarter of a million dollars per day!

It nearly collapsed several times. Ponzi managed to calm investors with his charm each time. Before it was over, 17,000 people invested millions. Nearly all of it was lost. The term "Ponzi scheme" lives on in infamy.
I was thinking of Ponzi as I read about a company called 12DailyPro. It's a North Carolina Web site that promised people a 12 percent daily return on their membership fee. The money would supposedly come from a combination of autosurfing (watching Internet ads), outside investments and from other member's fees.

12DailyPro is in crisis because of reports that the FBI and the Securities Exchange Commission have started investigations. The company that handled its cash has frozen the account. Right now, there are all kinds of counterclaims about who is at fault and whether it is a Ponzi scheme.

In the center of it all are lots of investors who are doggedly defending 12DailyPro. I've read their comments on both the company's online forum and other Web sites. They're either early investors who made money and want to make more, or they're sure that first payout is just around the corner. All they need is those stupid investigators to get out of the way and the media to stop its negative reporting.

No one seems to mention that there is no real foundation for the 12 percent daily profit. Somehow the company has magically figured out a way to produce incredible profits without buying or selling anything significant.

Back in 1920 there were plenty of people who defended Charles Ponzi long after his scheme had collapsed. I used to wonder how that could be. After watching the debate over 12DailyPro, I think I understand.

-------
Reach Call 12 for Action from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. weekdays at (602) 260-1212 or 1-866-260-1212.

Dave Cherry Call 12 Mailbag

Modern-day firm brings to mind 1920 Ponzi scheme

Feb. 20, 2006 12:00 AM

I think I'm finally beginning to understand the Ponzi mentality.

Charles Ponzi's claim to fame is that he created an investment scheme back in 1920. He told investors they could make big money through his program of buying and selling international postal coupons. It turns out he never actually bought or sold any coupons. He paid off early investors with money from later investors. As the early investors told of their incredible profits, more people rushed in with money. At one point he was taking in a quarter of a million dollars per day!

It nearly collapsed several times. Ponzi managed to calm investors with his charm each time. Before it was over, 17,000 people invested millions. Nearly all of it was lost. The term "Ponzi scheme" lives on in infamy.
I was thinking of Ponzi as I read about a company called 12DailyPro. It's a North Carolina Web site that promised people a 12 percent daily return on their membership fee. The money would supposedly come from a combination of autosurfing (watching Internet ads), outside investments and from other member's fees.

12DailyPro is in crisis because of reports that the FBI and the Securities Exchange Commission have started investigations. The company that handled its cash has frozen the account. Right now, there are all kinds of counterclaims about who is at fault and whether it is a Ponzi scheme.

In the center of it all are lots of investors who are doggedly defending 12DailyPro. I've read their comments on both the company's online forum and other Web sites. They're either early investors who made money and want to make more, or they're sure that first payout is just around the corner. All they need is those stupid investigators to get out of the way and the media to stop its negative reporting.

No one seems to mention that there is no real foundation for the 12 percent daily profit. Somehow the company has magically figured out a way to produce incredible profits without buying or selling anything significant.

Back in 1920 there were plenty of people who defended Charles Ponzi long after his scheme had collapsed. I used to wonder how that could be. After watching the debate over 12DailyPro, I think I understand.

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Reach Call 12 for Action from 11 a.m. to 1 p.m. weekdays at (602) 260-1212 or 1-866-260-1212.

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Here's what the local newspaper had to say:

StormPay trying to resolve problem
Local company says every penny 'backed up' for victims of scheme
By JIMMY SETTLE
The Leaf-Chronicle

Clarksville-based StormPay.com issued a statement Tuesday night indicating it and another Internet company are working to resolve business disputes.

From New York to Chicago, across the West Coast and down to Atlanta even to Malaysia and other points overseas, thousands of consumers have complained they could not access their StormPay accounts.

The Better Business Bureau alone has received nearly 19,000 complaints during the past week.

According to the statement, attorneys for LifeClicks the owner of 12DailyPro.com and StormPay have been negotiating the dispute.

The operator of 12DailyPro.com "after vehement denials to her customers that any investigations were ongoing, now retracts her previous statements and now admits that investigations into 12DailyPro are, in fact, being conducted by the FBI and various state investigative authorities as we have stated from the beginning," Steve Girsky, StormPay owner, said in a release Tuesday night.

Girsky asserted that 12DailyPro misrepresented its membership base that StormPay was unable to cover funds that customers had deposited into their StormPay accounts.

"StormPay's representatives have assured LifeClicks that StormPay is a viable company and is still open for business, and StormPay has provided assurances that it is able to cover, dollar for dollar with money in the bank, any deposits that may be held in any StormPay account," the joint statement reads.

StormPay has been in business since October 2002. It claims to conduct transactions in 200 countries and serves as a payment intermediary for online auction sites and other Internet businesses, with the intent of allowing customers and businesses to send and receive money.

12DailyPro, in turn, is billed as an auto-surf Web agent where customers can buy online advertising and earn commissions from advertising revenue. An "auto-surfing" program is set up to generate money every time a user visits a participating Web site.

Girsky and John McConnell, StormPay president, say they too have spent the past week fielding complaints about the accounts being frozen, with some of the complaints bearing a "threatening tone."

Pyramid scheme
12DailyPro's Internet activities are described as a Ponzi, or "pyramid" multi-level, auto-surf Web site that's claiming to build income for investors. Attempts to reach representatives of 12DailyPro a business apparently based in Charlotte, N.C. have been unsuccessful.

"Auto-surfing programs are thinly veiled pyramid schemes," according to a BBB statement.

Typically, pyramid schemes purport that for a relatively small investment, a huge amount of money can be earned. In order for all but the people involved early to receive money, a ridiculously large number of new participants must join.

The joint statement for StormPay and LifeClicks indicates some recent payments from 12DailyPro have been refunded back to LifeClicks by StormPay.

"We are working together to formulate an orderly and equitable reimbursement plan for refunding as many of you as we possibly can," the joint statement reads.

One complaint
Atlanta resident James Godwin is one of hundreds of people who have contacted The Leaf-Chronicle to complain about missing money.

Tuesday afternoon, Godwin said he is aware of 12DailyPro, but like most of the other people who have contacted the newspaper, he still thinks StormPay also is to blame for denying customer refunds.

Girsky said account funds have to be frozen because, "We have to protect our interests."

"I was using StormPay on an auto-surf called 12DailyPro, where you can go into their Web site and buy advertisements and get a commission from that revenue," Godwin said.

"StormPay is the processing company that pays (12DailyPro) and pays me my commissions. They have several ways of making money off of me. In fact, they charge me a fee of 3 percent right off the bat. They've got almost $4,000 of my money, counting my commissions, and at this point, I don't want my commissions.

"I just want the $3,300 that I invested in it, back. That was my life savings. It's all I had," Godwin said, adding he reported StormPay to the Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday.

FBI neither confirms nor denies
Girsky and McConnell said they are working with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that have begun looking into frozen accounts.

On Tuesday, FBI spokesmen wouldn't confirm or deny whether any such investigation was under way, saying they don't normally comment on cases unless an arrest is made or indictment is issued.

"Right now, we are directly cooperating with the investigative agencies, and we've secured the funds of this particular merchant (12DailyPro)," Girsky said.

"Potentially, this merchant owes these customers a whole lot more money than it has available to pay them." he said, adding, "Every penny of every StormPay customer is backed up at the bank."

Girsky said the problem is that "these people are expecting returns from this merchant that it just doesn't have to pay them."

"It's a classic pyramid scheme ... but they've been 'robbing Peter to pay Paul,' and that's why they don't have the money to pay these customers,'" McConnell said.

"They misrepresented their business model to StormPay," he said. "The merchant account funds have been frozen to preserve the integrity of these funds."

He said his company is trying to respond to every customer affected as quickly as possible, but "given the sheer volume, there is currently a backlog."

"We're getting to them as fast as we can," McConnell said.

Here's what the local newspaper had to say:

StormPay trying to resolve problem
Local company says every penny 'backed up' for victims of scheme
By JIMMY SETTLE
The Leaf-Chronicle

Clarksville-based StormPay.com issued a statement Tuesday night indicating it and another Internet company are working to resolve business disputes.

From New York to Chicago, across the West Coast and down to Atlanta even to Malaysia and other points overseas, thousands of consumers have complained they could not access their StormPay accounts.

The Better Business Bureau alone has received nearly 19,000 complaints during the past week.

According to the statement, attorneys for LifeClicks the owner of 12DailyPro.com and StormPay have been negotiating the dispute.

The operator of 12DailyPro.com "after vehement denials to her customers that any investigations were ongoing, now retracts her previous statements and now admits that investigations into 12DailyPro are, in fact, being conducted by the FBI and various state investigative authorities as we have stated from the beginning," Steve Girsky, StormPay owner, said in a release Tuesday night.

Girsky asserted that 12DailyPro misrepresented its membership base that StormPay was unable to cover funds that customers had deposited into their StormPay accounts.

"StormPay's representatives have assured LifeClicks that StormPay is a viable company and is still open for business, and StormPay has provided assurances that it is able to cover, dollar for dollar with money in the bank, any deposits that may be held in any StormPay account," the joint statement reads.

StormPay has been in business since October 2002. It claims to conduct transactions in 200 countries and serves as a payment intermediary for online auction sites and other Internet businesses, with the intent of allowing customers and businesses to send and receive money.

12DailyPro, in turn, is billed as an auto-surf Web agent where customers can buy online advertising and earn commissions from advertising revenue. An "auto-surfing" program is set up to generate money every time a user visits a participating Web site.

Girsky and John McConnell, StormPay president, say they too have spent the past week fielding complaints about the accounts being frozen, with some of the complaints bearing a "threatening tone."

Pyramid scheme
12DailyPro's Internet activities are described as a Ponzi, or "pyramid" multi-level, auto-surf Web site that's claiming to build income for investors. Attempts to reach representatives of 12DailyPro a business apparently based in Charlotte, N.C. have been unsuccessful.

"Auto-surfing programs are thinly veiled pyramid schemes," according to a BBB statement.

Typically, pyramid schemes purport that for a relatively small investment, a huge amount of money can be earned. In order for all but the people involved early to receive money, a ridiculously large number of new participants must join.

The joint statement for StormPay and LifeClicks indicates some recent payments from 12DailyPro have been refunded back to LifeClicks by StormPay.

"We are working together to formulate an orderly and equitable reimbursement plan for refunding as many of you as we possibly can," the joint statement reads.

One complaint
Atlanta resident James Godwin is one of hundreds of people who have contacted The Leaf-Chronicle to complain about missing money.

Tuesday afternoon, Godwin said he is aware of 12DailyPro, but like most of the other people who have contacted the newspaper, he still thinks StormPay also is to blame for denying customer refunds.

Girsky said account funds have to be frozen because, "We have to protect our interests."

"I was using StormPay on an auto-surf called 12DailyPro, where you can go into their Web site and buy advertisements and get a commission from that revenue," Godwin said.

"StormPay is the processing company that pays (12DailyPro) and pays me my commissions. They have several ways of making money off of me. In fact, they charge me a fee of 3 percent right off the bat. They've got almost $4,000 of my money, counting my commissions, and at this point, I don't want my commissions.

"I just want the $3,300 that I invested in it, back. That was my life savings. It's all I had," Godwin said, adding he reported StormPay to the Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday.

FBI neither confirms nor denies
Girsky and McConnell said they are working with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that have begun looking into frozen accounts.

On Tuesday, FBI spokesmen wouldn't confirm or deny whether any such investigation was under way, saying they don't normally comment on cases unless an arrest is made or indictment is issued.

"Right now, we are directly cooperating with the investigative agencies, and we've secured the funds of this particular merchant (12DailyPro)," Girsky said.

"Potentially, this merchant owes these customers a whole lot more money than it has available to pay them." he said, adding, "Every penny of every StormPay customer is backed up at the bank."

Girsky said the problem is that "these people are expecting returns from this merchant that it just doesn't have to pay them."

"It's a classic pyramid scheme ... but they've been 'robbing Peter to pay Paul,' and that's why they don't have the money to pay these customers,'" McConnell said.

"They misrepresented their business model to StormPay," he said. "The merchant account funds have been frozen to preserve the integrity of these funds."

He said his company is trying to respond to every customer affected as quickly as possible, but "given the sheer volume, there is currently a backlog."

"We're getting to them as fast as we can," McConnell said.

Here's what the local newspaper had to say:

StormPay trying to resolve problem
Local company says every penny 'backed up' for victims of scheme
By JIMMY SETTLE
The Leaf-Chronicle

Clarksville-based StormPay.com issued a statement Tuesday night indicating it and another Internet company are working to resolve business disputes.

From New York to Chicago, across the West Coast and down to Atlanta even to Malaysia and other points overseas, thousands of consumers have complained they could not access their StormPay accounts.

The Better Business Bureau alone has received nearly 19,000 complaints during the past week.

According to the statement, attorneys for LifeClicks the owner of 12DailyPro.com and StormPay have been negotiating the dispute.

The operator of 12DailyPro.com "after vehement denials to her customers that any investigations were ongoing, now retracts her previous statements and now admits that investigations into 12DailyPro are, in fact, being conducted by the FBI and various state investigative authorities as we have stated from the beginning," Steve Girsky, StormPay owner, said in a release Tuesday night.

Girsky asserted that 12DailyPro misrepresented its membership base that StormPay was unable to cover funds that customers had deposited into their StormPay accounts.

"StormPay's representatives have assured LifeClicks that StormPay is a viable company and is still open for business, and StormPay has provided assurances that it is able to cover, dollar for dollar with money in the bank, any deposits that may be held in any StormPay account," the joint statement reads.

StormPay has been in business since October 2002. It claims to conduct transactions in 200 countries and serves as a payment intermediary for online auction sites and other Internet businesses, with the intent of allowing customers and businesses to send and receive money.

12DailyPro, in turn, is billed as an auto-surf Web agent where customers can buy online advertising and earn commissions from advertising revenue. An "auto-surfing" program is set up to generate money every time a user visits a participating Web site.

Girsky and John McConnell, StormPay president, say they too have spent the past week fielding complaints about the accounts being frozen, with some of the complaints bearing a "threatening tone."

Pyramid scheme
12DailyPro's Internet activities are described as a Ponzi, or "pyramid" multi-level, auto-surf Web site that's claiming to build income for investors. Attempts to reach representatives of 12DailyPro a business apparently based in Charlotte, N.C. have been unsuccessful.

"Auto-surfing programs are thinly veiled pyramid schemes," according to a BBB statement.

Typically, pyramid schemes purport that for a relatively small investment, a huge amount of money can be earned. In order for all but the people involved early to receive money, a ridiculously large number of new participants must join.

The joint statement for StormPay and LifeClicks indicates some recent payments from 12DailyPro have been refunded back to LifeClicks by StormPay.

"We are working together to formulate an orderly and equitable reimbursement plan for refunding as many of you as we possibly can," the joint statement reads.

One complaint
Atlanta resident James Godwin is one of hundreds of people who have contacted The Leaf-Chronicle to complain about missing money.

Tuesday afternoon, Godwin said he is aware of 12DailyPro, but like most of the other people who have contacted the newspaper, he still thinks StormPay also is to blame for denying customer refunds.

Girsky said account funds have to be frozen because, "We have to protect our interests."

"I was using StormPay on an auto-surf called 12DailyPro, where you can go into their Web site and buy advertisements and get a commission from that revenue," Godwin said.

"StormPay is the processing company that pays (12DailyPro) and pays me my commissions. They have several ways of making money off of me. In fact, they charge me a fee of 3 percent right off the bat. They've got almost $4,000 of my money, counting my commissions, and at this point, I don't want my commissions.

"I just want the $3,300 that I invested in it, back. That was my life savings. It's all I had," Godwin said, adding he reported StormPay to the Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday.

FBI neither confirms nor denies
Girsky and McConnell said they are working with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that have begun looking into frozen accounts.

On Tuesday, FBI spokesmen wouldn't confirm or deny whether any such investigation was under way, saying they don't normally comment on cases unless an arrest is made or indictment is issued.

"Right now, we are directly cooperating with the investigative agencies, and we've secured the funds of this particular merchant (12DailyPro)," Girsky said.

"Potentially, this merchant owes these customers a whole lot more money than it has available to pay them." he said, adding, "Every penny of every StormPay customer is backed up at the bank."

Girsky said the problem is that "these people are expecting returns from this merchant that it just doesn't have to pay them."

"It's a classic pyramid scheme ... but they've been 'robbing Peter to pay Paul,' and that's why they don't have the money to pay these customers,'" McConnell said.

"They misrepresented their business model to StormPay," he said. "The merchant account funds have been frozen to preserve the integrity of these funds."

He said his company is trying to respond to every customer affected as quickly as possible, but "given the sheer volume, there is currently a backlog."

"We're getting to them as fast as we can," McConnell said.

Here's what the local newspaper had to say:

StormPay trying to resolve problem
Local company says every penny 'backed up' for victims of scheme
By JIMMY SETTLE
The Leaf-Chronicle

Clarksville-based StormPay.com issued a statement Tuesday night indicating it and another Internet company are working to resolve business disputes.

From New York to Chicago, across the West Coast and down to Atlanta even to Malaysia and other points overseas, thousands of consumers have complained they could not access their StormPay accounts.

The Better Business Bureau alone has received nearly 19,000 complaints during the past week.

According to the statement, attorneys for LifeClicks the owner of 12DailyPro.com and StormPay have been negotiating the dispute.

The operator of 12DailyPro.com "after vehement denials to her customers that any investigations were ongoing, now retracts her previous statements and now admits that investigations into 12DailyPro are, in fact, being conducted by the FBI and various state investigative authorities as we have stated from the beginning," Steve Girsky, StormPay owner, said in a release Tuesday night.

Girsky asserted that 12DailyPro misrepresented its membership base that StormPay was unable to cover funds that customers had deposited into their StormPay accounts.

"StormPay's representatives have assured LifeClicks that StormPay is a viable company and is still open for business, and StormPay has provided assurances that it is able to cover, dollar for dollar with money in the bank, any deposits that may be held in any StormPay account," the joint statement reads.

StormPay has been in business since October 2002. It claims to conduct transactions in 200 countries and serves as a payment intermediary for online auction sites and other Internet businesses, with the intent of allowing customers and businesses to send and receive money.

12DailyPro, in turn, is billed as an auto-surf Web agent where customers can buy online advertising and earn commissions from advertising revenue. An "auto-surfing" program is set up to generate money every time a user visits a participating Web site.

Girsky and John McConnell, StormPay president, say they too have spent the past week fielding complaints about the accounts being frozen, with some of the complaints bearing a "threatening tone."

Pyramid scheme
12DailyPro's Internet activities are described as a Ponzi, or "pyramid" multi-level, auto-surf Web site that's claiming to build income for investors. Attempts to reach representatives of 12DailyPro a business apparently based in Charlotte, N.C. have been unsuccessful.

"Auto-surfing programs are thinly veiled pyramid schemes," according to a BBB statement.

Typically, pyramid schemes purport that for a relatively small investment, a huge amount of money can be earned. In order for all but the people involved early to receive money, a ridiculously large number of new participants must join.

The joint statement for StormPay and LifeClicks indicates some recent payments from 12DailyPro have been refunded back to LifeClicks by StormPay.

"We are working together to formulate an orderly and equitable reimbursement plan for refunding as many of you as we possibly can," the joint statement reads.

One complaint
Atlanta resident James Godwin is one of hundreds of people who have contacted The Leaf-Chronicle to complain about missing money.

Tuesday afternoon, Godwin said he is aware of 12DailyPro, but like most of the other people who have contacted the newspaper, he still thinks StormPay also is to blame for denying customer refunds.

Girsky said account funds have to be frozen because, "We have to protect our interests."

"I was using StormPay on an auto-surf called 12DailyPro, where you can go into their Web site and buy advertisements and get a commission from that revenue," Godwin said.

"StormPay is the processing company that pays (12DailyPro) and pays me my commissions. They have several ways of making money off of me. In fact, they charge me a fee of 3 percent right off the bat. They've got almost $4,000 of my money, counting my commissions, and at this point, I don't want my commissions.

"I just want the $3,300 that I invested in it, back. That was my life savings. It's all I had," Godwin said, adding he reported StormPay to the Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday.

FBI neither confirms nor denies
Girsky and McConnell said they are working with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies that have begun looking into frozen accounts.

On Tuesday, FBI spokesmen wouldn't confirm or deny whether any such investigation was under way, saying they don't normally comment on cases unless an arrest is made or indictment is issued.

"Right now, we are directly cooperating with the investigative agencies, and we've secured the funds of this particular merchant (12DailyPro)," Girsky said.

"Potentially, this merchant owes these customers a whole lot more money than it has available to pay them." he said, adding, "Every penny of every StormPay customer is backed up at the bank."

Girsky said the problem is that "these people are expecting returns from this merchant that it just doesn't have to pay them."

"It's a classic pyramid scheme ... but they've been 'robbing Peter to pay Paul,' and that's why they don't have the money to pay these customers,'" McConnell said.

"They misrepresented their business model to StormPay," he said. "The merchant account funds have been frozen to preserve the integrity of these funds."

He said his company is trying to respond to every customer affected as quickly as possible, but "given the sheer volume, there is currently a backlog."

"We're getting to them as fast as we can," McConnell said.