TOYOTA MALL OF GEORGIA EMPLOYEES UNDER PAID AND HEALTH INSURANCE IS $200.00 A WEEK FOR A COMPANY WHO CLIAMS TO BE THE LARGEST IN GEORGIA NOT COUNTING THE CHRISTMAS BONUS COULDNT EVEN BUY A HOLIDAY DINNER WITH THAT. BUFORD Georgia

Elaine,

It seems you are unhappy working for a company that does not treat you well. My advice is to get a new job. You have not been ripped off. If the dealership were not paying the commissions that they agreed to when you were hired, that would be a rip off. If you were "fixing" someone's car that did not need that particular job performed, (but you would make a higher commission) that would be a ripoff. I am not suggesting you did the latter, but many people working on commission, whether they are in sales, or mechanics, are out to make a living and are more concerned with selling something that pays them more money than giving the customer what he needs. I agree with Robert on his guess that when you are truely running your own business, you will not be eager to give away all of your profits to employees.

To Robert,

I understand that not having insurance works for you. You probably manage your money effeciently. Please be careful advising this to the masses though. As someone else posted, most people live paycheck to paycheck. This site is full of people screaming foul about the banks due to "excessive" overdraft fees. These people can't seem to manage their funds at all. I would be willing to bet the vast majority of people without insurance are not investing it each month as you are doing. Instead they are buying rims for their cars, sony playstations, and going on vacations. I agree that for the most part insurance companies are ripoffs. I am self employed and pay almost $1,300 per month for my family. This is extremely high, however I am glad I have it. My wife had partial shoulder replacement surgery last year that amounted to over $60,000 (This included everything from the doctor to the hospital stay to the rehab) This would have been a tremendous burden for me financially if it were not for the insurance. My point is, I do not have insurance for the minor problems (I haven't been to the doctor in 2 years), but instead for the major potential problems. That is what insurance is for.

In the meantime, Elaine, I hope you find a better job that treats you as you want to be treated, and Robert, I hope your business continues to flourish.

I played the self-medical-costs-insured game for several years as a free-lance engineer. Back then, hospital charges were reasonable. My daughter's in-hospital delivery cost me $300. This was really inexpensive for me. But I could see future medical costs looming with my wife so I accepted an employment offer I could not refuse. Full medical coverage for both of us was $85/month even unto my retirement until we reached 65. Then our costs zoom to $104/month each plus medicare, another $93/month. Funny thing, my wife was in the hospital four days for routine abdominal surgery less that two years ago, and the gross bill was $43,000. We paid $150.

Let's see: $43,000/$85/month = 505 months, or 42 years. How is this for math?

Oh, yea, my wife also gets Procrit shots, plus lab work & the doctort's time, for a total of $8,000 twice a year. More math: $16,000/$85/month = 188 months or 15.7 years. The last two years means a total of 31.4 years....

Then there is the $10,000 year net for Rx drugs the last three years, or $30,000/$85/month = 352.9 months or 29.4 years.....

So where are we? Ummm... about 102.8 years of $85/month premiums, or $104,900 in costs minus $15,300 in premiums for $90,000 in savings. Not a bad tradeoff, really. Is it?

Bottom line, most of us spend every dollar we make on a monthly basis - or worse, we spend more.

For people like that having the cash come out of their paycheck so that they cannot touch it is the only way to keep them from buying another pack of cigarettes, 6-pack, or Nintendo game.

That's why insurance works for them. They lack the ability to exert SELF-CONTROL.

We exist in a society that prides itself on self gratification, not the honored values of yesteryear. "My husband doesn't make me happy, I need a new one." Is the mantra today. When American presidential candidates can look away with their hands at their sides instead of on their hearts facing the flag during our Anthem.....

I agree such people need taking care of. They need proper parenting, regardless of their age, for they exhibit such a lack of maturity one is forced to question their ability to survive in this world on their own.

Consider the migrant worker 'problem' as an example. Americans complain because they take 'our' jobs. But they are hard working jobs that most Americans would not want. I don't condone illegal immigration, I feel that anyone getting the benefits of being in this country should pay for them. But, I have seen that most migrant workers exhibit a stronger work ethic than the average American - that is UNTIL they have become properly socialized into our culture. Then they become as lazy as the rest of us. My point here is that these workers are glad to be here, don't quibble about their benefits, and know better than to risk the job they are so lucky to have by talking badly about their employers.

Until we put WORK back in our ethic, this will persist.

For this thread: WORK, if VALUABLE enough to an employer, makes you powerful. If you want better benefits, WORK for them. Become profitable enough for your employer that the added benefit you request seems a pittance compared to YOUR WORTH. I have a suspicion that such was not the case here - quite the contrary in fact!

Pay the entire bill at the time services are rendered. How much simpler can I make it for you, Jerry? I realize it must be tough comprehending the idea of actually paying for medical care.

Oh, and if owls are so brilliant, why are we always told they can't find another tree to live in if the current one is chopped down?

My "payment plan" consists of ONE payment at the time services are rendered. I guess that's too difficult for an Insurance Agent(what Double naught does that make you...000?) to comprehend.

So far it has worked at every Doctor I have seen in every Country I have gone too. Oh wait...I forgot to remind you...your American "Insurance" is worthless anywhere except North America. Go to Europe, Asia, Africa, etc and show the Doctor your card. He'll tell you he works for real money. With very few exceptions, your Health "Insurance" is invalid outside North America.

I know it's hard for you, so here goes: $200 invested each week very conservatively with only a 7% return, will provide $151K after 10 years, $454K after 20 years, and $2.2M after 40 years. At that point, the OP could retire comfortably. He/she could also pay for any medical care the entire family needs, or wants. The vast majority of people don't use anywhere near the $151K accumulated in the first decade of investing.

Your plan would have him/her pay the "Insurance" company $104K each decade, with nothing to show for it. This doesn't include copays and deductibles. Those would add another $5K-$10K each decade. Not counting rate increases which are annual additions, the OP will have spent over $416K in 40 years instead of earning $2.2M.

My math works for the individual. Yours only works for the Insurance Companies, as another poster pointed out. According to Fidelity(a mutual funds group), retirees currently need immediate access to $215K for healthcare costs NOT covered by Insurance, nor Medicaid/Medicare. Hmmmm, seems MY math is working better and better.

According to the US Government, the last year of life accounts for 27% of all medical expense a person spends during his/her lifetime. Prior to that, according to a study by the British, expenditures double each decade up to that final year of life. In other words, someone 0-40 will spend very little, with each subsequent decade costing more and more, than the previous decade. My math just gets more and more perfect Jerry, while your plan fails at every turn.

I get the feeling you hawk this "Insurance" for a living. I on the other hand, recommend individual self reliance and free market capitalism at all times.

BTW, my teeth are fine. Thanks for being concerned. Considering I am 46 yrs old and have NEVER had a cavity, I'd say they're doing very well. The $183 I spent at the Dentist this past June confirmed it. Another thing, very few health "insurance" policies cover dental care. Vision is usually a non-entity too.

You keep hawking those policies. I'll keep investing my money for MY future, not some Agent's.

P.S.-My Parents(Mother/Father/Stepfather) were almost always home. You watch too much TV. Not everyone who works for the CIA plays Double-Naught.

You're still the greatest Jethro!

I know it's hard for you, so here goes: $200 invested each week very conservatively with only a 7% return, will provide $151K after 10 years, $454K after 20 years, and $2.2M after 40 years. At that point, the OP could retire comfortably. He/she could also pay for any medical care the entire family needs, or wants. The vast majority of people don't use anywhere near the $151K accumulated in the first decade of investing.

Your plan would have him/her pay the "Insurance" company $104K each decade, with nothing to show for it. This doesn't include copays and deductibles. Those would add another $5K-$10K each decade. Not counting rate increases which are annual additions, the OP will have spent over $416K in 40 years instead of earning $2.2M.

My math works for the individual. Yours only works for the Insurance Companies, as another poster pointed out. According to Fidelity(a mutual funds group), retirees currently need immediate access to $215K for healthcare costs NOT covered by Insurance, nor Medicaid/Medicare. Hmmmm, seems MY math is working better and better.

According to the US Government, the last year of life accounts for 27% of all medical expense a person spends during his/her lifetime. Prior to that, according to a study by the British, expenditures double each decade up to that final year of life. In other words, someone 0-40 will spend very little, with each subsequent decade costing more and more, than the previous decade. My math just gets more and more perfect Jerry, while your plan fails at every turn.

I get the feeling you hawk this "Insurance" for a living. I on the other hand, recommend individual self reliance and free market capitalism at all times.

BTW, my teeth are fine. Thanks for being concerned. Considering I am 46 yrs old and have NEVER had a cavity, I'd say they're doing very well. The $183 I spent at the Dentist this past June confirmed it. Another thing, very few health "insurance" policies cover dental care. Vision is usually a non-entity too.

You keep hawking those policies. I'll keep investing my money for MY future, not some Agent's.

P.S.-My Parents(Mother/Father/Stepfather) were almost always home. You watch too much TV. Not everyone who works for the CIA plays Double-Naught.

You're still the greatest Jethro!

I know it's hard for you, so here goes: $200 invested each week very conservatively with only a 7% return, will provide $151K after 10 years, $454K after 20 years, and $2.2M after 40 years. At that point, the OP could retire comfortably. He/she could also pay for any medical care the entire family needs, or wants. The vast majority of people don't use anywhere near the $151K accumulated in the first decade of investing.

Your plan would have him/her pay the "Insurance" company $104K each decade, with nothing to show for it. This doesn't include copays and deductibles. Those would add another $5K-$10K each decade. Not counting rate increases which are annual additions, the OP will have spent over $416K in 40 years instead of earning $2.2M.

My math works for the individual. Yours only works for the Insurance Companies, as another poster pointed out. According to Fidelity(a mutual funds group), retirees currently need immediate access to $215K for healthcare costs NOT covered by Insurance, nor Medicaid/Medicare. Hmmmm, seems MY math is working better and better.

According to the US Government, the last year of life accounts for 27% of all medical expense a person spends during his/her lifetime. Prior to that, according to a study by the British, expenditures double each decade up to that final year of life. In other words, someone 0-40 will spend very little, with each subsequent decade costing more and more, than the previous decade. My math just gets more and more perfect Jerry, while your plan fails at every turn.

I get the feeling you hawk this "Insurance" for a living. I on the other hand, recommend individual self reliance and free market capitalism at all times.

BTW, my teeth are fine. Thanks for being concerned. Considering I am 46 yrs old and have NEVER had a cavity, I'd say they're doing very well. The $183 I spent at the Dentist this past June confirmed it. Another thing, very few health "insurance" policies cover dental care. Vision is usually a non-entity too.

You keep hawking those policies. I'll keep investing my money for MY future, not some Agent's.

P.S.-My Parents(Mother/Father/Stepfather) were almost always home. You watch too much TV. Not everyone who works for the CIA plays Double-Naught.

You're still the greatest Jethro!

I know it's hard for you, so here goes: $200 invested each week very conservatively with only a 7% return, will provide $151K after 10 years, $454K after 20 years, and $2.2M after 40 years. At that point, the OP could retire comfortably. He/she could also pay for any medical care the entire family needs, or wants. The vast majority of people don't use anywhere near the $151K accumulated in the first decade of investing.

Your plan would have him/her pay the "Insurance" company $104K each decade, with nothing to show for it. This doesn't include copays and deductibles. Those would add another $5K-$10K each decade. Not counting rate increases which are annual additions, the OP will have spent over $416K in 40 years instead of earning $2.2M.

My math works for the individual. Yours only works for the Insurance Companies, as another poster pointed out. According to Fidelity(a mutual funds group), retirees currently need immediate access to $215K for healthcare costs NOT covered by Insurance, nor Medicaid/Medicare. Hmmmm, seems MY math is working better and better.

According to the US Government, the last year of life accounts for 27% of all medical expense a person spends during his/her lifetime. Prior to that, according to a study by the British, expenditures double each decade up to that final year of life. In other words, someone 0-40 will spend very little, with each subsequent decade costing more and more, than the previous decade. My math just gets more and more perfect Jerry, while your plan fails at every turn.

I get the feeling you hawk this "Insurance" for a living. I on the other hand, recommend individual self reliance and free market capitalism at all times.

BTW, my teeth are fine. Thanks for being concerned. Considering I am 46 yrs old and have NEVER had a cavity, I'd say they're doing very well. The $183 I spent at the Dentist this past June confirmed it. Another thing, very few health "insurance" policies cover dental care. Vision is usually a non-entity too.

You keep hawking those policies. I'll keep investing my money for MY future, not some Agent's.

P.S.-My Parents(Mother/Father/Stepfather) were almost always home. You watch too much TV. Not everyone who works for the CIA plays Double-Naught.

You're still the greatest Jethro!

My "payment plan" is so simple, even YOU can follow it. You make ONE payment, at the time you recieve the services.

Is that simple enough for you?

Now, answer the question...how do you make $200 cost MORE than the $10400, plus deductibles, plus copays, the OP is paying?

It is the prospective employee's responsibility to completely evaluate the benefits program for any business they choose to work for. I find it abominable that an employee could complain about such benefits after working there for over 6 months. ANY responsible employee will know the insurance benefits, cost of such, job responsibilities and ancillary benefits prior to taking the job.

Regarding an earlier suggestion to go without insurance; One might consider this a viable option if they have the ability to manage their funds in a sound prospective manner. Too few are intelligent enough to do so, that is why INSURANCE companies make such great investments. Really, what better rip-off is there than taking people's money and finding ways not to pay it back? Statistically (this is proven fact, for the insurance companies set their rates to make it so through actuarial analysis), insurance companies charge you 1.8 dollars for every dollar in benefit you will receive (on average - this rate can vary due to management overhead within the insurance company). They also make money by investing your 1.8 dollars over the time it takes between when you pay them and when they pay that one dollar claim -often years from the actual incident.

One final thought for Islamic Democratic Presidential supporters regarding Christmas bonus: How many of you got Channukah, Mohommed day bonuses, or are allowed to pray to Mecca 3 times a day on the clock? My point being, religious holiday bonuses are simply another employee benefit which (if important to a prospective employee) should be investigated PRIOR to employment.

OK,which is it you pay when service is rendered,or payment plan? So you said you were a repairman! is that how you do business? you set up payment plans for your custormers: because if you did lets see how long you'd be in business! To mention how things used to be are alot different in todays times,back in the day people would (barter) exchange goods,to see the town doctor, but again times have changed. Medical professionals cannot pay their staff and keep up with the latest technology by you offering to fix the doctors vehicles.

I've done the math and it only takes (1) time for something serious to be admitted into the hospital and you'll wish all you was $10.000 that wont even touch the amount you'll owe. Did you even read what the main issue is the report ? the person that wrote the report was stating that paying $200.00 a week was to much for health insurance for working at such a large dealership, and I agree that working for such a large dealership as Toyota Mall of Georgia was high.

Like I stated in a earlier letter I wrote I have been to the Toyota dealership and also see the T.V ad's where the dealership admits to being the largest dealer in Georgia. you do realize how much Atlanta GA. has grown, ifnot maybe you should before passing judgment on this person.

When I first moved to GA, in 1970 I was was able to buy lakefront property my home was a 3broom 2bath home with a finished basement, for less than $40.000 today I wouldnt even be able to pay $40.000 to have a finished basement added to a new house off the lake. land around the Mall of GA. average $100.000 a acre. so see your not telling me nothing I havent lived through, i feel bad for the new generation whos parents didnt plan ahead by making wise choices, because vehicles cost what homes used and even though people make more, its harder for the middle class to keep up with the constant change of economy, so either you live out in the boon-docks or need to come back down to planet earth. also do you even go to a denist if so add that into your repayment plan, or do like most people with no insurance use financing, see how many denist will take a IOU.

Remember you said it I am a HOOT. Owls are very intelligent creatures. but ill say you must be a fruit-loop. just keep thinking the way you do, guess your not to blame since your family was in the CIA their absence from parenting shows. hope your children learn how to be more responsible and learn from your mistakes. Not a product of you circumstantial bull crap, I've seen self employed people who lived on the high horse not thinking what the future has instore and the money they saved up for years be used up almost in no time because they used your way of thinking, and next thing they were hit with not only medical but the cost of meds alone.I hope your wife does keep up with having MRI's annually and you dont deprive her of checkups so you can save money. oh yea I forgot your way repayment plans ,trust me , what one day may save your families life wouldnt be available if everyone was on a repayment plan. research cost money, and like I said before technology new equipment yes money too!

so who wants stuff for free? because if you have the kinda money you say you have, pay your depts on time when services are rendard. why have the burden of paying payments and having interest added and they can do that. GET SMART. Funny ha!ha!

Now $200 a week for the family can be considered high. However a few questions about this plan. What are the copayments for office visits? How much do the meds cost? Usually the higher the premiums, the lower out of pocket costs (co-payments) are.
Also as far as affordability. How much commission do you make per vehicle? If your commission is as low as $200 per vehicle (probably is a lot higher than that), then your insurance is paid with 1 car sold leaving the other car sales for that week as your pay.
Lots of companies have waiting periods before the employee is eligible for insurance. How many employees are there? When a company gets insurance for the employees, the cost is partially based on the number of employees that will be participating. A company with 6 employees will not get as good a deal as a company with 60 employees, which will not get as good a deal as one with 600 employees. Another option is to look around at some the insurance companies that will cover you and see how much they charge. The advantage is you can keep that same company if you ever changed jobs, not have a period with no coverage.

I tell them I am paying right then, and they take me back to see the Doctor. It works pretty well for me. They know they don't have to file any paperwork and hope to be paid sometime down the road. I've paid for two births, a surgery, and numerous ER and regular office visits using my simple payment plan. I owe nothing. My total expenditure is about $200 for myself. The kids eat up a bit more than that to be sure, but I still have NEVER paid anywhere close to $10400 in any single year.

Just curious...How do you think Doctors got paid before AETNA began selling Health Insurance? You do know they were the first, and it all began in the 1980's, right? Sure, there were small companies hawking this nonsense back in the 1960's, but AETNA really sold that bill of goods to the American public. I know how...people paid their own way, and Doctor's readily took cash, check, or charge cards. Some even made house calls. Mine did. Dr Beall was his name.

And I really don't care if you like me or not. Nor do I consider you an expert on medical issues. Your Mom and Dad were Doctors, so that makes you an expert? My parents worked for the CIA. That doesn't make me a spy. You're a real hoot.

I am still waiting for you to do the math, Jerry.

Hard to believe anyone would beg to come work for you! First of all if you think that by being without health coverage is the way to go,your full of it, or truth be known your in adream world and living on SSI or something like that. Anyone with a brain knows that the first thing a health provider ask is for your insurance card the better coverage the you have the faster a doctor is to run multiple test and find out whats wrong with you! Go in there with NO insurance and see how fast the doctor will refer you to another doctor, thats to get you out of there for see a doctor looks at your file and will judge you like you judge people, No insurance, this guy doesnt take care of himself, they'll gladly write you a prescription and bill you $300.00 and dimiss you. if you do die like you stated the buck wont stop there they will go after your wife for payment or you next off kin. owing a hospital is like owing the IRS they will get their money, before you even are cold in the ground they will file a judgement freeze your bank account, or put a lien on your property. and your family will be left with your depts, Why should you care right? you'll be dead. and your grieving wife will be left to take care of your depts. Oh FYI my father was a OB-GYN and my mother was a registerd nurse (RN) so you could say I grew up in a home with knowledge of the healthcare profession, And 1 of my brothers took over my fathers practice and the other is a professor that teaches medicine,at a university. and the remark you made about the younger people who pay for health insurance pay for the sick elderly, havent you heard of medicare? this country should take better care of the elderly remember if we all live long enough we will one day be elderly, what angers me is medicaid pays for young people and they have better coverage than the elderly. You probley make your parents proud!!! because its people like you that makes comments about elderly people have NO HEART!!! You are a disgrace to all our fellow Veterans Im ashamed that you served for our country.IF you really did! and if you are so busy running a company how do you take time going through the post, oh thats right you have employees to run it for you, seems your lazy and are the one who is looking for a free hand out. Im retired and can take my laptop anywhere I want matter fact right now im kicked back in pigeon forge as I white to you looking out the bay window at the lights reflecting off the river. Great life I live, but for the way you think youll have to keep working for the rest of your greedy life. retirement sure is GREAT again people who plan ahead are smart, the rest well, I guess who think like you the younger generation will be left taking care of you!

Everyone's rebuttal makes sense but the bottom line is very simple. We live in a country where people are free to quit their jobs if they don't like the pay or benefits. If you don't like the place you work then simply find another job that pays more or has better benefits. What is all the discussion about? Is the Toyota Mall suddenly going to increase its benefits because of ROR? The only way benefits and / or pay could increase is if everybody quits and takes a job elsewhere or if management agrees that pay and/or benefits need to be increased. They run the company. They invested money in it. They decide what income to expense ratio they want. They decide what pay and benefits ought to be. What were the benefits and pay scales when you first started working there? Did you look around for a company that paid better and that furnished health insurance at less cost?
Spend the time writing your resume rather than complaining.

"When you work on automobiles at a Dealership you have be certified also very professional with years of experience. A dealership just dont hire some person off the streets to work on expensive vehicles, you should know Toyota is not a cheap automobile. so you see this is a profession, its not like construction work where you pick up anyone who can swing a hammer. Another thing what kind of person judges a individual by the car they drive if there a repairman, bodyman,ETC. havent you ever heard the saying a plumbers pipes are clogged, an electrician bulbs never get changed, again the meaning behind the saying is their always busy fixing other peoples problems."

First, dealerships DO hire people off the street. Where do you think they get them? There is usually ONE mech there who has been "factory trained". The rest learn it as they go. And there are no "Corporate" Dealerships. They are all privately owned franchises. As such, each owner decided what the employees will get as compensation. Very few are ASE certified, even fewer are Master Techs, and any mechanic will tell you it's just a multiple choice test. I know several Master Techs who can't figure out anything in the shop, but can recite chapter and verse from the service manual. Most Dealership techs are parts changers. Think 2nd Eschelon in the Corps. Real mechanics FIX the issue. Think 3rd and 4th eschelon. They will have one or two, and they spend all of their time rebuilding transmissions and/or engines.

If a car keeps fouling spark plugs, replacing them repeatedly has FIXED nothing. There are many variables involved. Is the heat range of the plug too low? How about rings and valve seals? Would a hotter plug solve an oil fouling issue? Would increasing the oil's viscosity help? Is it a fuel issue? There are many variables, but the average(not all) wrench will just keep throwing the stock plugs in the car. Not all customers want to repair the problem the correct way due to cost, but they will appreaciate a mechanic who can keep Old Bessie rolling along a little while longer. THOSE are the mechs I hire. I have no use for a parts changer.

I wouldn't trust a plumber whose pipes are leaking, an electrician whose house has faulty wiring, a roofer whose floors are covered with buckets, etc. A bodyman whose car is see-through will never touch mine, nor will a mechanic whose car is held together with hopes and dreams, work for me. That crap about them not having time is a copout by poorly skilled techs. What you do for a living should be readily apparent by what you drive, or live in. A stock-broker who has all of his money under a matress, or an investment guru who's flat broke, or a home builder who rents are just more examples.

I drive a 1991 Dodge. Everything works, and the body is clean. So is the interior. It has over 250K miles, and burns no oil. My wife drives a 1998 Chrysler, and you would swear it was new, even though it has 190K miles on it. It still has the original tranny, and again, everything works perfectly.

BTW, I've never had a mech quit and talk badly about me. In fact, all of them ask me for work. I know how to run a business, and know that keeping happy employees is job #1. Giving away the store in order to do that is not the proper way though. Providing a safe work space, paychecks that clear the bank(you'd be shocked by how many don't, even at Dealerships), and steady work are pretty much what mechanics want.

You didn't say whether you'd take up my challenge about the business venture, so I'll assume that was a NO. I guess spending other people's money is easier than your own.

As for the VA doing my check-ups, you are correct. They probably spend some money doing the lab work. I'm betting it doesn't come close to the $10400 the OP spends annually though. I'm even willing to bet it doesn't come to much more than the $200 I spend out of pocket. I know it's not because I have a friend who is a lab tech. I am also willing to bet the money I am able to save and invest for future use will gain me more in medical care than the $10400 the OP wastes on his/her policy, which he/she does not even own. Ask anyone who deals with investments. Take even 1/2 of that($5000) each year and invest it conservatively. After 10 years, you can pay for anything, short of a new everything. Insurance companies know this. They use the money from the younger, healthy people to pay for the ones who are older and sickly. 90% of all healthcare expenditures are spent in that few years of your life. Take that into account when you do the math.

After years and years of wasting money on the policy he/she does NOT own, it can be cancelled at any time, and even if not cancelled, the services provided can be denied, leaving the OP to carry the bag. My way(how it used to be done) denies me nothing, and if I died, my heirs would have my money. The OP's heirs will have nothing, as the policy ends the day he/she assumes room temperature. All that money is gone, and then they all get to waste MORE money on other policies. Of course, now they are all older, and the policy rates increase, if they can get them atall, since any pre-existing conditions will effectively limit or exclude coverage.

My math works quite well Jerry.

Robert, First thing you do know the difference between a private owned business verses a corporation (Meaning multiple more than one of something) Also I dont know or care what kind of business you proclaim to have but seems to me your employee or employees are not as happy as you say!

When you work on automobiles at a Dealership you have be certified also very professional with years of experience. A dealership just dont hire some person off the streets to work on expensive vehicles, you should know Toyota is not a cheap automobile. so you see this is a profession, its not like construction work where you pick up anyone who can swing a hammer. Another thing what kind of person judges a individual by the car they drive if there a repairman, bodyman,ETC. havent you ever heard the saying a plumbers pipes are clogged, an electrician bulbs never get changed, again the meaning behind the saying is their always busy fixing other peoples problems.

I'm having a hard time understanding something you stated that your 46 yrs old veteran and you go twice a year to the V.A's hospital and set and wait for a practicing intern not a doctor yet to give you your physical, not to knock the V.A but to many of my buddies have gone there to have physicals and several test run and couple months later they go to their practicing physician and be diagnosed with Cancer. And yes I two am a veteran 2 tours vietnam was 17yrs old when I enlisted have 3-purple hearts and a steal plate in my head and the things my buddies and I seen would make you come down off your high horse because when your that close to hell, all you care about is protecting yourself and your brothers, and I didnt give a rats ??? about anything else, There should only be 1 Judge and thats not me, But I can say this before I retired I did hire people for their experience and the requirements were to present yourself keep cleaned cut, but it is impossiable to stay clean remember working on vehicles your bound to get dirty.

also to say I want something for nothing never been my style I've worked hard and proud of what I have and a great family that i adore and they adore me back. and once a year me and my loving wife get together with my marine buddies and their wife have a reunion. and some are lawyers doctors and even congressman, but when we get together were family who have been there and seen more than anyone person should ever have to see. and yes I'm proud of being retired I enjoy life.

Oh and just for those who are wondering I have 2 homes one near my family and a vacation home on the beach, and yes I own several autos too,and did I mention this old marine has even been to Hawaii a couple times. Reality check people who think that saving money on health insurance by not having it saves money! Have NO sense. saving $10,000 a year is great but again smart people plan ahead, People are healthy one day and can be fighting for their lives the next. and $10.000 dollars wouldnt even be able to cover a week stay in the hospital, why you should know you wont even fork out money to see a family doctor. wise up if your able to own your own business you should already have workmans comp in case of emergencies if not one of your employees get hurt on the job would sue you for everything you own, and then you might be the one with rotten teeth driving a rusty old clunker, because you cant make a great living on a V.a check Semper Fi

Too bad it was just more of the same from the "gimme" crowd. I have yet to spend more tha $200 per year on any illness. I take care of myself. I am 46 yrs old, and don't need anyone else to babysit me. Apparently you do.

Businesses are in business for ONE reason...to make a profit. The jobs belong to the employer. If the employer decides to provide something other than a paycheck for the job he/she has provided to the employee, that's fine. It's the decision of the employer. My employees get no "benefits" other than a fat paycheck. I pay better than anyone else in my business. I also expect more from my workers. I don't allow them to come to work looking like crap, nor are they allowed to drive junk. The vehicle they drive must represent the quality of their work. A mechanic who drives junk, should work in a junkyard. If you expect to work on good cars, drive a good car. Would you trust a body shop where the employees drive rustbuckets with dents? I wouldn't. A dentist with rotten teeth? Not me.

Perhaps you should invest your own money in a business venture. Make sure you pay top wages to whomever you hire, along with a huge benefits package. I expect you to provide health insurance...no, make that fully paid health care, since I know you won't mind paying it all(you're a great philanthropist), full retirement(no measly 401K for your people), moving expenses for those who are hired from out of town, profit sharing(like there would be any), stock options, paid vacation(30 days minimum per year), and whatever else the employees decide you should give them.

I'm betting you'll decide a paycheck for the least amount you can get them to work for, is ample. Benefits? Sure. Not when you see the bill for that.

I know one guy who pays over $9000 annually for 4 people. That's nearly $2500 each, plus the employees still have to cover a copayment, and a deductible. Me? I'd rather have the $2500. Of the 4, only one uses the coverage. His annual rate wouldn't go down if he dropped the other 3 and gave them cash. In fact, he only gets that rate because of the "group". It would cost him as much to cover the one, because of all of that one person's issues. The other three are basically giveaways. He only has a limited amount of money to spend on "benefits", and one person eats it up.

What a waste. Me? The VA takes care of me...sometimes. It depends on if I want to wait forever or not. That's where my $200/year comes in. I rarely use the VA. They deposit my disability check each month, and we get along fine. That's right Jerry, I am a disabled Veteran, and still don't look to be taken care of by anyone. I go there twice/year for a checkup. That's it.

The OP claims to be paying $10400 annually for his/her health "insurance"(I have already shown it's NOT Insurance at all, but a prepayment plan that is waaaaay more expensive than the old fashioned way). That's insane. That's more than my buddy spends on 4 employees, and his employees don't pay anything except the copayment at the Doctor, and their deductibles. Please explain how spending $10400 is better than my way at less than $200.

I tried using generalizations before in these threads, but everyone wants to use specifics instead. So we'll do it that way. Show me how you spend LESS money with a $10400 "insurance" premium, than I do with $200. Remember, the $10400 does not include the OP's copayments, nor the deductibles.

When I went to school, $200

Seems the harder you work, the more people want to take advantage of you. I am a retired auto repairman and know the stress that comes from that kind of profession I'm living proof. soI know how important having Health insurance is. Please dont take the advise that it's better not to be insured and just waituntil you get sick, some people seem to have 2-many brain cells missing.

Working for such a big company as Toyota Mall of Georgia you'd think have better insurance coverage than that, Just think if they treat their employees unfairly, How the company treats their customers? Toyota Mall of Georgia hasnt been in business long only about 6-yrs old maybe the dealership needs better management, sometimes the BIG BOSS is so wrapped up in other things they have NO idea how things are being run.

It does happen! Poorly managed company can benefit the managers and take away from the hard working staff, atleast until they are caught up with. I have worked with private companies and i retired several years ago from a great dealership who offered excellent benefit package and would even give incentives to reward the hard workers. so there are decent dealerships out there you just have to do your research.

Also I would have thought a company that advertise that their the largest Toyota dealership in Georgia would offer better benefits. because its the blue collar workers who make it possible for the white collar guys to have jobs.

Not long ago another dealership in Buford had to take criminal action towards the manager and assistent manager who had been running the company for years,had to be doing something wrong! so I wish you the best . And I dont think you want anything for free: The company does. and some people who think they have answers to every problem can give awful advice like go without insurance and making a comment you want free stuff is the one who ends up getting things free, because its people like that who have NO future because their to busy making stupid comments to hard workers and not enough time planning for the future. because a smart person always plans ahead for what can happen. Good luck

Find a job with a company that pays better and has better benefits. The really sad part is car dealers can't help themselves. They're so use to screwing people, that they even screw their employees and themselves. Had a car guy trying to sell me a truck. He brought his broken chain into my store to get repaired. I normally charge $35 to do the job but since I was thinking about buying a truck from him, I gave him a $10 discount, to $25. I call him and let him know his chain is ready. He brings in a $35,000 truck to show me when he comes in to pick up his chain, I tell him $25 plus tax comes to $27. He puts down a $20 and tells me that's all he has. HOW STUPID CAN YOU BE? The guy is trying to sell me a $35,000 truck and screws
me out of $7. I took the $20 and told him I'd let him know on the truck. I bought the truck from another dealer for $30,000. Like I said, these stupid mf's can't help themselves.

You are mad because the OWNER of a business doesn't give stuff away for FREE to you. Call the WAAAAHbulance.

Here's a thought, go into business for yourself and then tell us about all the FREE stuff you give your employees. I'm betting it amounts to about the same as your current employer, if not less.

As for Health "Insurance", what a laugh. Do you spend $800+/month on healthcare? If not, stop paying for it. I've never had health "Insurance", and have saved a fortune because of it. In reality, it's not even "Insurance", it's a payment plan for future needs. You don't pay auto insurance to pay for brake jobs and oil changes, nor do you pay homeowners insurance to pay for paint and furnace filters. Pay out of pocket and you'll save money, unless you are one of the 1% out there that are truly in need of constant care. But if you were, you wouldn't be working anyway.