Wachovia Bank, National Association AKA Wachovia Corporation I was charged $140 overdraft fee when there was $275 in my account! Charlotte North Carolina

A couple ways to prove the double hold would be printing a copy of your debit card holds or contacting Customer Service and having a phone conference between you, the bank and the merchant. I agree in most cases the merchant will claim it's not their fault and not want to refund any fees. However if there's more than one hold, the merchant is the one that creates the holds when they run your card. Even if the merchant doesn't step up and do anything with the fees, it gives us proof of merchant err for consideration of any refund. Without this proof, we don't know if you made two purchases or what the exact situation is so any refund would be considered as a courtesy which are more limited.
As for the situation with the gift receipt, or even an immediate return, please call customer service while still in the store. If the merchant confirms the amount will the required information we can delete that hold. This would have taken care of the problem you mentioned where the merchant ran as $1000 instead of $100. I'm not sure when that happened, but in the 2 years I've been with Wachovia we've been able to delete the holds if we get the right information. This is where online banking is a good tool, check your debit card holds. Also some banks are now starting mobile banking, info over your cell, so it maybe a good addition to keep situations like this from causing fees.

Zilly, I'm glad that things worked out for you. I'm sorry it took so long and so much effort of your part.

After filing a complaint with the BBB, Wachovia has admitted errors have been made, and has refunded $245 in overdraft fees to my account.

Regarding going after the merchant for the fees when they make a mistake. Many times the merchants do not even tell us when they make a mistake. They just re-run it for the correct amount. How do I prove to the merchant they swiped my card twice? How do I show the merchant they made the error and have to pay up? I can't. All the merchant has to say is they didn't make a mistake and it is my bank's error for having two holds.

Then, we could have NSF's on record with the bank when it is not our fault.

Let me give you a scenario that happened to me today. I purchased some Christmas presents to the tune of $300. I told the girl at the register I need gift receipts. After ringing up my purchases and I swiped my card, she gave me the regular receipt, but no gift receipts. She forgot. She said I had to go to customer service for gift receipts.

When I went to customer service, I was told they cannot just give me gift receipts. I had to return the merchandise, get a credit, then re-charge it again to get gift receipts. That would be a $600 pending against my bank account until the merchant runs their batch. Then, as you know, when they run their batch, the two $300 charges would debit before my $300 credit.

Why can't credit "swipes" be credited to pending too, just like the debit "swipes"? Why can't a merchant void a pending hold on his end if he makes an error? You mentioned why can't we get the fees refunded by the merchant since it isn't the bank's fault. Yes, it is the bank's fault because they do not let us have our credits or voids in real time, just like they do the charges.

A few years ago when I had Wachovia, I had a merchant run my card for $1000 instead of $100. I had the merchant call Wachovia and was told they could not do anything to fix it. And, to top it all off, the merchant had to rerun the $100 real charge.

First of all I would like to apologize to you for my mistake about your gender. Secondly I apologize if something I posted implied you were a "nitwit", that certainly was not my intention at any time.
The fees that occured together as the $140 are called unavailable funds fees. They are charged when you have one or more items that post that leave you with less in your account than the total that you need for the holds in effect that business day. The fee is for the item that posts that day. Unfortunately what often happens is that these fees will put the account balance very low or negative so that when the items that were on hold post they are accessed overdraft fees. I understand your frustrations with this fees. I'm just trying to explain how/why they're charged to help you and others avoid them in the future.
When an item is refunded it does not automatically generate the refund of the fee. If there is a verifiable bank error the fees caused will be refunded. If you file a dispute on an unauthorized transaction with our dispute department they will refund the fees caused by that item. But if we see a refund from the company, we don't know if it was a mistake on their part or that the customer returned something. Any other refund is a courtesy to you. In the example of a merchant that charged the wrong amount or made two holds for the same item, the mistake is the merchants. We are not required to refund those fees. Has anyone thought of complaining to the merchant to get them to correct THEIR mistake?
The phone number that you gave is for the Online Customer service. It deals with online banking problems to include bill pay questions. That number has been the same for the 2 years I have been with Wachovia. As I've stated in other posts your best source for information and action about overdrafts is the Customer Service Department. Unfortunately the answer we give you may not be the one you want to hear.
As for the $2 fees. If this is for a non-Wachovia ATM use they will post one of two times. Either immediately after the ATM usage or on the end of statement date for your account. I would encourage you to call 1-800-922-4684 and ask specifically what the fee is for.
Actually there is a need for the register. You as the account owner are the one that is aware of what you spend and when you spend it. The available balance given online and on the phone is a great TOOL. However, it will not show items not yet posted such as checks, pay by phone, monthly debits (insurance, etc). So only the account owner by keeping the register can be sure of not overspending the account and causing fees.
You've now mentioned another aspect, that Wachovia is "holding" your funds. Is this something you'd care to elaborate on so I can try to help by explaining it?

First of all I would like to apologize to you for my mistake about your gender. Secondly I apologize if something I posted implied you were a "nitwit", that certainly was not my intention at any time.
The fees that occured together as the $140 are called unavailable funds fees. They are charged when you have one or more items that post that leave you with less in your account than the total that you need for the holds in effect that business day. The fee is for the item that posts that day. Unfortunately what often happens is that these fees will put the account balance very low or negative so that when the items that were on hold post they are accessed overdraft fees. I understand your frustrations with this fees. I'm just trying to explain how/why they're charged to help you and others avoid them in the future.
When an item is refunded it does not automatically generate the refund of the fee. If there is a verifiable bank error the fees caused will be refunded. If you file a dispute on an unauthorized transaction with our dispute department they will refund the fees caused by that item. But if we see a refund from the company, we don't know if it was a mistake on their part or that the customer returned something. Any other refund is a courtesy to you. In the example of a merchant that charged the wrong amount or made two holds for the same item, the mistake is the merchants. We are not required to refund those fees. Has anyone thought of complaining to the merchant to get them to correct THEIR mistake?
The phone number that you gave is for the Online Customer service. It deals with online banking problems to include bill pay questions. That number has been the same for the 2 years I have been with Wachovia. As I've stated in other posts your best source for information and action about overdrafts is the Customer Service Department. Unfortunately the answer we give you may not be the one you want to hear.
As for the $2 fees. If this is for a non-Wachovia ATM use they will post one of two times. Either immediately after the ATM usage or on the end of statement date for your account. I would encourage you to call 1-800-922-4684 and ask specifically what the fee is for.
Actually there is a need for the register. You as the account owner are the one that is aware of what you spend and when you spend it. The available balance given online and on the phone is a great TOOL. However, it will not show items not yet posted such as checks, pay by phone, monthly debits (insurance, etc). So only the account owner by keeping the register can be sure of not overspending the account and causing fees.
You've now mentioned another aspect, that Wachovia is "holding" your funds. Is this something you'd care to elaborate on so I can try to help by explaining it?

First of all I would like to apologize to you for my mistake about your gender. Secondly I apologize if something I posted implied you were a "nitwit", that certainly was not my intention at any time.
The fees that occured together as the $140 are called unavailable funds fees. They are charged when you have one or more items that post that leave you with less in your account than the total that you need for the holds in effect that business day. The fee is for the item that posts that day. Unfortunately what often happens is that these fees will put the account balance very low or negative so that when the items that were on hold post they are accessed overdraft fees. I understand your frustrations with this fees. I'm just trying to explain how/why they're charged to help you and others avoid them in the future.
When an item is refunded it does not automatically generate the refund of the fee. If there is a verifiable bank error the fees caused will be refunded. If you file a dispute on an unauthorized transaction with our dispute department they will refund the fees caused by that item. But if we see a refund from the company, we don't know if it was a mistake on their part or that the customer returned something. Any other refund is a courtesy to you. In the example of a merchant that charged the wrong amount or made two holds for the same item, the mistake is the merchants. We are not required to refund those fees. Has anyone thought of complaining to the merchant to get them to correct THEIR mistake?
The phone number that you gave is for the Online Customer service. It deals with online banking problems to include bill pay questions. That number has been the same for the 2 years I have been with Wachovia. As I've stated in other posts your best source for information and action about overdrafts is the Customer Service Department. Unfortunately the answer we give you may not be the one you want to hear.
As for the $2 fees. If this is for a non-Wachovia ATM use they will post one of two times. Either immediately after the ATM usage or on the end of statement date for your account. I would encourage you to call 1-800-922-4684 and ask specifically what the fee is for.
Actually there is a need for the register. You as the account owner are the one that is aware of what you spend and when you spend it. The available balance given online and on the phone is a great TOOL. However, it will not show items not yet posted such as checks, pay by phone, monthly debits (insurance, etc). So only the account owner by keeping the register can be sure of not overspending the account and causing fees.
You've now mentioned another aspect, that Wachovia is "holding" your funds. Is this something you'd care to elaborate on so I can try to help by explaining it?

First of all I would like to apologize to you for my mistake about your gender. Secondly I apologize if something I posted implied you were a "nitwit", that certainly was not my intention at any time.
The fees that occured together as the $140 are called unavailable funds fees. They are charged when you have one or more items that post that leave you with less in your account than the total that you need for the holds in effect that business day. The fee is for the item that posts that day. Unfortunately what often happens is that these fees will put the account balance very low or negative so that when the items that were on hold post they are accessed overdraft fees. I understand your frustrations with this fees. I'm just trying to explain how/why they're charged to help you and others avoid them in the future.
When an item is refunded it does not automatically generate the refund of the fee. If there is a verifiable bank error the fees caused will be refunded. If you file a dispute on an unauthorized transaction with our dispute department they will refund the fees caused by that item. But if we see a refund from the company, we don't know if it was a mistake on their part or that the customer returned something. Any other refund is a courtesy to you. In the example of a merchant that charged the wrong amount or made two holds for the same item, the mistake is the merchants. We are not required to refund those fees. Has anyone thought of complaining to the merchant to get them to correct THEIR mistake?
The phone number that you gave is for the Online Customer service. It deals with online banking problems to include bill pay questions. That number has been the same for the 2 years I have been with Wachovia. As I've stated in other posts your best source for information and action about overdrafts is the Customer Service Department. Unfortunately the answer we give you may not be the one you want to hear.
As for the $2 fees. If this is for a non-Wachovia ATM use they will post one of two times. Either immediately after the ATM usage or on the end of statement date for your account. I would encourage you to call 1-800-922-4684 and ask specifically what the fee is for.
Actually there is a need for the register. You as the account owner are the one that is aware of what you spend and when you spend it. The available balance given online and on the phone is a great TOOL. However, it will not show items not yet posted such as checks, pay by phone, monthly debits (insurance, etc). So only the account owner by keeping the register can be sure of not overspending the account and causing fees.
You've now mentioned another aspect, that Wachovia is "holding" your funds. Is this something you'd care to elaborate on so I can try to help by explaining it?

I was re-reading this thread and saw where you said one of the items was actually refunded. I think I see your confusion. Banks charging overdraft fees using available balance is a horrible practice and I understand your complaint of the double dipping. However, this is how it works.

Say you go to a store, purchase something, walk out and then go back later and return something. Your entire purchase will remain in the pending area, but the refund will not show in the pending area. When the merchant submits their charges for processing, the charge will hard post, then the credit will hard post. You never see the credit until the hard post time.

Now, for another scenario. Say you're in the store, purchase a few things, then realize right then you don't want one of the items for whatever reason. So, the merchant "voids" the transaction and reruns your entire purchase, less the item you put back. He "swipes" your card for the first charge, which puts that charge in the pending area of your account. He again "swipes" your card for the rerun of the purchase which also puts that charge in the pending area of your account.

When the merchant submits his charges, he only submits the 2nd transaction because the first one was voided. Well, guess what? The first transaction that was voided stays in your pending area (your money is held) until the bank releases that hold, which usually takes around 3 days.

Was one of your overdraft fees for the 2nd transaction because the 1st transaction was still on hold? Or were the fees caused by the 1st transaction still being on hold when other items came through? Is this what you meant by double dipping?

If one of the above scenarios is what happened, I can certainly understand you being irate. The practice of the banks using available balance to charge overdraft fees is really not fair due cases such as these. If I cannot use to my advantage, any deposits I make because they in the "pending area", the bank should not be able to use any charges in the "pending area" to their advantage either.

Zilly, I repeat my earlier post on this thread. To eliminate the confusion and bolst the validity of your claim I think it would help to post a snippet of your running statement detailing each transaction, fees, and other entries, line by line, during the time period in question here. This will help everyone understand clearly what you're trying to describe.

Secondly, the implication that I'm a nitwit who can't tell the difference between deception truth in banking is personally offensive to me and it's one which, of late I've been getting at Wachovia quite a lot.
The OD fees Wachovia removed which were not categorized, were taken off for the same charges TWICE, once as the bulk $140 fee and AGAIN, later on, as a series of fees above it.
As I've noted before, the account was only overdrawn by $15 and change.
When a $9.84 charge was refunded, this should have automatically set into motion removal of at least two or three of these charges, instead Wachovia did NOTHING, I would suppose, taking the chance that I wouldn't see the refund.
When I called them about it, they told me they didn't have to apply any refunds to overdrafted charges, that it was a courtesy.
I'll tell you what I told them, "Yes? Since when?"
They agreed to remove a single fee, but they did not adjust the over fees, accordingly.
AGAIN, I'm a long-time customer here and this is an attitude change which has been occurring for about 6 months, although it's really become a problem, these past two months.
Has there been a regime change at Wachovia?
Has the bank merged or been taken over by another financial institution, hot dog vendor, etc?
As for your (StriderQ) insistance that there was never an "overdraft services" department with another phone number, here's the number on past cards, from my records:
(800) 950-2296
24 hours a day
Seven days a week
It no longer exists.
As for those mystery $2 charges, they do not come expressly after a withdrawal, they can appear at any time, and my question is this:
Why all the secrecy?
If I'm being charged by the bank for a withdrawal at an ATM (which has also charged me, incidentally), why not just be candid and say that's what it's for, rather than this subterfuge?
What's the need for funds beging taken labelled as paid to "other" and that it's a "miscellaneous fee"?
Finally, as for keeping a "register" of everything I've used my money for, if I could trust the information I was getting from Wachovia, which is the reason they're holding my funds, there wouldn't be a NEED for a register.
Wachovia is playing a dangerous shell game here.

Let me add, that I'm not the complainant here so let me clarify that even though the explanations make sense to me now, Zilly is certainly still welcome to express continued disagreements, frustrations, displeasures, etc.

It was not my intent to overshadow Zilly and imply that this OP has been resolved based on the employee's response. In my previous post, I was only addressing the sidebar between the employee and myself.

Ok. Good point in your last rebuttal. I can't argue. Even though we agree to disagree, let me say your availability as an employee is commendable and you do provide good information, even though it's not always what myself and others want to hear.

The point in most of my rebuttals is try and weed through the crap spewed forth by some simply for the sake of ridiculing the OP but their rebuttals offer nothing helpful or more importantly, nothing MEANINGFUL with sound logic. When sound logic is presented, it stands on its own merit and cannot be disputed.

Just like I can't argue your point, the same can now be said about my claim that not all of the top national banks practice the largest to smallest posting order, because where are my accusers now? This is one example of what I mean by meritless rebuttals because when an OP makes this claim, many will respond with phrases like, 'get use to it, ALL banks do this'. And it's now been proven that NOT ALL banks do. But I guarantee those same meritless rebuttals will continue.

I suppose the same claim could be made of your knowledge that most banks post OD fees individually, they are based on your current bank's policy. I have had accounts with several dirrenet banks during the years and all of them have posted the total fees together not individually. Again though as posting order, this will be a debate neither side can "prove" to the satisfaction of the other.

However, if Zilly believed the fee was a one item fee, there where are her posts for the $75 and $105 fee charges?

Striderq, You are a Wachovia employee so it's understandable that you have your idea about how OD fees are posted based on how Wachovia does things. But every bank I've ever dealt with posts overdraft and/or NSF fees INDIVIDUALLY, using a procedure similar to the sample customer statement below:

Date Description Amount Balance
12/1/07 Prev Balance - $100.00
12/1/07 Deposit $100.00 $200.00
12/2/07 Check # 123 $195.00 $5.00
12/2/07 Check # 456 $100.00 $ -95.00
12/2/07 Card - Walmart $50.00 $ -145.00
12/2/07 Card - McDonalds $7.00 $ -152.00
12/3/07 NSF (Check 456) $35.00 $ -187.00
12/3/07 Overdraft Fee $35.00 $ -222.00
12/3/07 Overdraft Fee $35.00 $ -257.00

Then when you get the post card or letter in the mail a few days later it would have further details similar to the following:
-----------------
The following transactions caused NSF and overdraft fees to your account. The total of all fees is $105:

12/2/07 Check # 456 - $100.00
12/2/07 Point of sale purchase - $50.00
12/2/07 Point of sale purchase - $7.00
-----------------
So by Wachovia posting a SINGLE overdraft fee in the amount of $140 without details like this, Wachovia is basically telling Zilly - 'You overdrew your acount and the TOTAL overdraft fee is $140'. So Zilly now has to figure out HOW MANY transactions overdrew the account and WHAT WERE THEY? This may be DIFFICULT to do, especially when the customer's CHECK REGISTER doesn't show where they have overdrawn the account at all. And it's hard to determine the truth without these specifics. This is sort of the proof you're asking for but I'm sure other rebuttals can confirm they're experience with MOST other banks has been similar to this example I've listed here.

The $2 fee you are being charged is probably for the use of a non-Wachovia ATM. the fee accessed when you make the withdawal is from the bank that owns the ATM, then Wachovia charges you a $2 fee. And yes this is revealed in your Schedule of Fees & Services or Terms & Conditons (whichever you prefer to call it). If you see it posted as $2 Misc fee, the precedding transaction should show as a Non Wach ATM withdrawal.
And I guess from this post that the reason for the fees were explained (the "hooey" from customer service. I'd like to ask, when in this situation did you get that explanation?
I do understand your frustration with this situation, but the fees are legitimate. Again it comes down to keeping a register and not overspending your account,

Actually Edward I believe that many banks will list Overdraft fees that occur the same day as one fee for the total amount. If the fees are Nonsufficient fees (where the item is returned unpaid) then it will be listed individually with information about the item that was returned (check number, amount, etc). I'll admit I don't know how most banks post their fees, but I don't believe that "normally the practice by MOST banks" is to post them individually. Again if you're are claiming this is true I would like to see proof. The posts concerning OD fees seem to state "they charged me" whatever total amount, not that "there were 7 $35 fees showing" and this is on the posts against all the banks that I have seen here. Even when Zilly mentioned previous fees it was as $70 and $105, not as 2 $35 fees and 3 $35 fees.

As to why the branches couldn't explain this, I think you're trying to confuse the issue a bit. It her posts, Zilly stated she could not get an explanation of the reason for the fees, not that the fee was $140 as you seem to be insinuating. I believe that the branches did explain the $140 fee was for 4 overdrafts, but may not have been able to explain why the fees were charged. This is basically due to job description. If you ask a teller about overdraft protection or why a fee was charged, they may not be able to explain it. This is because their job is to process deposits and withdrawals done at their counter. However, the branch manager certainly should be able to explain this. I'm not sure from her postings as to whom Zilly & her lawyer spoke. The best source for information is the customer service line (I believe this to be true at any bank) because we are trained to understand and explain account transactions, to include fees. I see by one of her posts that Zilly did speak with a customer service representative, however it seems the person wasn't very helpful. I apologize for that, but it does happen in every business.

As for your question about holds that are cancelled and never post, yes they can cause OD fees. As i have posted on other reports, if this happens please call customer service while still at the merchant and we can get the information to delete the hold. that way you won't get this fee for an item that does not post.

Lately I've been finding $2 charges taken out here and there by the bank. These are shown on my statement as from "Other", and are simply called "Miscellaneous Fee".
How legal is that?
Isn't that like Wachovia putting their hand in my pocket any time they feel like it and refusing to tell me what they're using the money for? I don't let my kids do that to me.
And their branch closings are something else, too. The bank 5 blocks away, is being closed. The next closest one is 3 miles away.

Apparently, by the bank's explanation, I was double-dipped for fees, and whoever did it, KNEW they were doing it, which is why the $140 overdraft fee comes up as a lump sum with no explanataion.
Customer service gave me some hooey about taking fees out when the amounts were in the process of clearing, on the day before, they then took them out AGAIN when they actually came through.
This is what my lawyer and I are up-in-arms about.
If they'd done thing legitimately, I would have had one overdraft fee, not 7. My account was overdrawn by less than $15.

Striderq, If the overdraft fees are combined and posted as one amount, $140, then to me, I consider this deceptive practices by the bank. And I think this is done deliberately to make it difficult for customers like Zilly to try and make sense of what happened. It's normally the practice by MOST banks to list OD fees INDIVIDUALLY, and along with each fee, the SPECIFIC transaction that caused the fee is also listed. And why couldn't ANYONE at the branches explain this to her and her lawyer like you have done here, if it was that straight forward.

Further, if some of these fees are for HOLDS for which there is not sufficient funds, what happens if some of these HOLDS are credit card transactions and not debit card transcations and the purchase or transaction is CANCELLED and never submitted via batch by the merchant. What happens then? The bank has ALREADY charged an OD fee for a transaction that was MADE but now has been cancelled and will never POST.

Next, as a side note from this OP, I agree with you about WAMU. It was always my understanding that National banks use the same corporate posting policy at ALL of their branches. So therefore when I discovered that WAMU here in Dallas posts transactions chronologically EVERY DAY, I logically assumed that ALL WAMU branches did things this way. It was only after other rebuttals were submitted that caused me to doubt this. These rebuttals claimed that they had PERSONALLY spoken to employees or customers who claim that WAMU branches in THEIR AREA post items by amount, Largest to Smallest. So I took there word for it. Whether they were deliberately telling a LIE or just do not know what they're talking about is a mystery.

But I'm stating that I know what the Dallas branch does here FOR A FACT. But don't take my word for it. Call them yourselves to find out. But, like you, I agree that I think all other branches nationally follow this same policy and if this is true, then chalk up WAMU as one National Bank that doesn't post in order of amount, proving that NOT ALL National Banks use this predatory posting policy.

Not sure where you got that name. Your posts indicate that these charges have happened within the last year. I've been with Wachovia for 2 years now and we've not had a "overdraft service department" in that time. The number that appears on the overdraft notice postcard is the 1-800-922-4684 customer service number.

Also you mention the final overdraft amount was $265. Since the OD fees are $35 apiece, the fees alone can not account for that amount, so that indicates if you received $140 in OD fees that you overdrew your account $125. These transactions would have been the ones that caused the fees.

I'm sorry if I offended you by explaining what I understood to happen, but I try to use this forum to educate people as to how things are processed so they can avoid these fees. I understand that you have decided to go to another bank (I'm sorry to see you go), but as Edward, Robert, Jim, Nikki and so many other posters here will tell you: Most banks process the same way. so this information can help you at whatever bank you use.

I hope that you and your family have a great Christmas.

I did not ask for an explanation in writing because of the attitude of the personnel I was dealing with. As I've already said this is the third time in a year Wachovia has tried to do this to me. Previous attempts were for $70 and $105. At the time, they were removed because their overdraft service department looked at them and admitted the bank was in error.
This department no longer exists.

The people I spoke to, this time around, mentioned those two reversals and called them "courtesy" reversals.

As though, I should have paid them but the bank felt soprry for me and said, "Don't worry about it."

As I told them, "They were removed because the bank was in error, these were not "courtesy" removals."

It was clear to me that this bank no longer has any intention of playing fair, anbd the longer I drag this situation out, the worse it's going to be.

Plus, it's Christmas, and I don't need to be stiffed for $265 (the final overdraft amount) this month. I have bills to pay, REAL ones.
Additionally, one of the items I bought was refunded, which used to mean that the fees would be automatically removed, as well as any additional overdraft fees incurred because of that charge.

This time, Wachovia did NOTHING. My lawyer had to make an issue of it, and they refunded only one overdaft charge.

This is a new bank policy. Their whole attitude has changed, and I won't have it. I've canceled my direct deposit to them, the next thing to go will be this checking account.

Unfortunately, I did it too late for December.

Zilly, I'm sorry to hear this happened to you. i'd like to try to help explain this as I understand it from your posts.
The $140 overdraft fee is 4 fees of $35 per item, 4 items that were overdrawn. If more than one item is charged the fee, all fees are lumped together for the total amount.

Actually Edward your "bombshell" is more a firecracker. I do not believe that any bank is going to let one or more branches post differently than the corporate standard. You may have branch employees who will say they do it differently than the others branches, but if corporate allowed this it's basically saying "okay everybody get in line to sue us because we treat people differently". Sorry, I know you mean well with your posts, but I don't think this really happens.

The phone number to reach Wachovia customer support is still 1-800-Wachovia (1-800-922-4684). If you have questions please call we are available 24/7/365.

Nikki is correct in her post regarding the debit card holds. When the merchant runs your card it creates the hold. It is usually on hold for the day (calendar date) it is done and the next two business days). if the company has not claimed the money at that time the hold expires and the amount goes back into your available balance. However, when they merchant claims the money it must be paid, whether it is the next day, the next week or the next month.

Looking over your posts, Zilly, I believe what happened is that you were charged unavailable funds fees. What this means is that when we do the posting for that business day, we will take the posted balance (money physically in your account from the previous day) and subtract the current holds. This includes debit card holds and deposit holds. We then credit all deposits for that business date. We then subtract paper checks, ACH debits, debit card purchases and then fees (Yes the debits post from largest to smallest) If you have an or any item that posts to the negative of the available funds you are charged an unavailable funds fee. yes you have money in your account but not enough to cover what is posting and what is already spent and on hold.

Example: You have $80 on hold and a posted balance of $150. The first item is a check for $70, balance is now $80 and no fee. second item is check for $18, balance now $62 and 1st unavailable funds fee. Third item $debit card $10, balance now $52 and 2nd unavailable funds fee. Last item debit $1.50, balance now $50.50 and 3rd unavailable funds fee. The fee will be listed as NSF/OD fee $105, balance now ($55.50) (Wachovia uses paranthesis to notate negative amounts).

On the date that the fees were charged was the $275.51 after the last item posted and then the fee was charged. If so, then the item(s) you had used you debit card to pay for that were on hold added up to more than the balance that was left on the fourth to the last debit. Look online, and count four transactions from the fee. Your holds were more than the balance left when that item posted.

The recommendations of keeping some kind of register are so important. when you look at the balance on line it reflects what has posted on previous business days and the holds that we know are active at that time. But it does not reflect any checks, pay-by-phone, automatic debits (like insurance) or debit card purchases that the hold as expired for.

I hope this helps. With the information I could get from your posts this is the best explanation I can see fits. If you have further questions, please ask and I'll help as much as I can.

If there is a single overdraft fee of $140, that is weird. Did you ever ask them what that is for?

In your last post, you stated, "Charges appear and then disappear, only to comeback later in the month." Here is what happens.

The "charges" do not appear and then disappear, the "holds" appear and then disappear. When you "swipe" your card, a hold is placed on your balance to cover that charge. Your bank will remove the hold if the merchant does not submit for charge for processing within a certain amount of days (let's say 3 days for the following example, but I don't know how long your bank actually holds for).

If you make a purchase today, say $50, your bank will hold that $50 for 3 days. If the merchant does not submit the $50 charge for processing to hard post to your account within that 3 days, the hold will come off your account and added back to your balance. Then, when the merchant submits the charge (it can be 2 weeks later, or even more, but usually isn't), it will hard post to your account and the money withdrawn.

The bank cannot hold your money forever (thought they'd like to) if the charge never gets processed by the merchant. So, that is why take the hold off. However, if the merchant finally gets around to processing their charges, it will come out of your account.

If you haven't done so already, try going to the Wachovia website to obtain information about local branches they might have in or around your area. Then call these branches DIRECTLY using their LOCAL number, instead of calling the Wachovia 800 call center. You should be able to find someone at one of these branches who can explain the following:

1. Is the $140 fee a single fee or multiple fees, like maybe four $35 fees?
2. If it's multiple fees, why does it show up as ONE fee?
3. If it's multiple fees, which transactions overdrew the account for which these multple fees occured?

When you call one branch and they can't help, move on to the next one. But of course, you shouldn't have to and nor would I recommend doing this endlessly. Hopefully it won't take that long to find someone at one of these branches with some sense. Good Luck!

If you haven't done so already, try going to the Wachovia website to obtain information about local branches they might have in or around your area. Then call these branches DIRECTLY using their LOCAL number, instead of calling the Wachovia 800 call center. You should be able to find someone at one of these branches who can explain the following:

1. Is the $140 fee a single fee or multiple fees, like maybe four $35 fees?
2. If it's multiple fees, why does it show up as ONE fee?
3. If it's multiple fees, which transactions overdrew the account for which these multple fees occured?

When you call one branch and they can't help, move on to the next one. But of course, you shouldn't have to and nor would I recommend doing this endlessly. Hopefully it won't take that long to find someone at one of these branches with some sense. Good Luck!

This will be the quickest way to get this resolved. Believe me when I tell you, they took no joy in removing this money from you. They took no sadness either. They simply removed the money - there is no emotion one way or the other.

Also know, the bank did not take the money out to pump up their profits - given how much all banks will report in 4th quarter losses, a few hundred dollars in fees from every account holder would not offset the billions of losses these guys are already set to report in January 2008. Not that I feel sorry for them - mind you. I am just the messenger.

Direct deposit was mentioned because it was my understanding that details were needed. This particular detail has no bearing on the actual situation.
I also have an account at WaMu, which I never use.
I got it because 18 months ago, they offered me $75 to open a completely free checking account.
Upon doing so, they made actually getting that money a 4 month-long project. Due to that, I thought it wiser to not let them handle my money.
Wachovia, on the other hand, over the cries of "Never believe your online statements!!", consistently gives deliberately misleading and incorrect account information.
Charges appear and then disappear, only to comeback later in the month, when they can overdraft one's account.
And everybody seems to think this is fine; business as usual.
I do not.
When I recently had Wachovia's "customer support" on the phone, they angrily told me that I couldn't believe their information. They said, overdrafts were my fault, because I needed to keep a 'registry of charges'.
While I admit this is probably a good idea, I don't see why everybody so readily accepts the notion that their financial institution is out to steal their money.
And yeah, the overdrafts I was charged this time, the mystery $140, had NOTHING to do with my keeping a running total of my payments.
This was just something they laid on me for the joy of doing so.

It wasn't my intent to put the spotlight on Washington Mutual and posting order policies since that's not the issue in this OP. But thank you Jim for that information regarding Washington Mutual which sheds light on what I've been trying to discreetly point out.

This is precisely the reason why I tried to refrain from mentioning specific names. Ok, now it appears Washington Mutual is one example of a bank that doesn't post in order by amount, at least not at all of their branches. And now we see how Washington Mutual is able to do this based on Jim's information. Well, who's to say that there aren't OTHER BANKS that do things EXACTLY like Washington Mutual, the precise reason for me not wanting to single out ONE bank.

But instead I go back to my ORIGINAL statement - Not ALL banks post in order of Largest-To-Smallest. You just have to do your OWN research to determine which banks do what.

Once again, I apologize for the change of subject from the issue in this OP, but there's no additional information that I can give anyway regarding SINGLE overdraft fees that are so UNUSUALLY high, for no apparent reason. That's something that can be better explained by THE EMPLOYEE Striderq is absent, yet again. Now, as Striderq has mentioned himselft, he's certainly not OBLIGATED to respond to ANYTHING. But at the same time, if is resonding on other threads regarding OD complaints, then we certainly have the right to call him out also.

You posted about direct deposit in the OP. If it's not an isue, why was it even mentioned? I notice you fail to actually post the transactions and balance by date to see what really happened. You can say whatever....but you have yet to prove you are correct.

Zilly, if the logic is undecipherable - then have someone at the bank put the reason down in writing so that even if you may not understand what it is they've done, then your attorney can investigate and intercede on your behalf. If what they did is wrong, then your attorney can do it without a lawsuit (and should settle it without a suit since you don't bring in an attorney for a lawsuit like this unless we're talking about several thousand dollars).

Direct deposit has nothing to do with this situation.
ALL parties agree that the money was in the account ready to be spent.
This has to do with double dipping, as I understand it.
Vendors requests for payment are put "on hold", overdrafts were removed then, and AGAIN when payment to these merchants was made.
Wachovia's whole logic is indicipherable and, as far as I'm concerned, illegal.
I'm not a new customer to this bank, I've been with them for years.
Their attitude is what's new.
In the past, I've been overdrafted, both fairly and unfairly, the results were easy to see and understand.
If it was my mistake, I paid them, never over $70 and that was only on one occasion.
If it was their mistake, they came clean and removed the overdrafts.
Not this time.
There's been no accountablility, no clear explanations and no sense.
My attorney is one who looks for the answer. He's not a man who sues without good reason.
Even he was stumped, here.
It's clearly fraud.
Personally, I believe these rampant fees have to do with 4th quarter earnings and the price of their stock.

Edward, I might be able to shed light on the Washington Mutual deal. WAMU is different from Wachovia, Compass, our favorite bank, and others is that they are considered a Mutual Bank. They have different regulations and guidelines under Federal Law than banks. Accordingly, they operate their business a bit differently than other banks would normally because they have different regulations to abide by. This may extend to check clearing policies (just like our credit unions, who have different regulations to abide by than banks, and they clear checks and post deposits differently than many banks) being different than a bank.

Zilly, was the balance of $275 in your account before the direct deposit, or was it that balance as a result of the direct deposit?

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure everyone would agree that none of us have ever heard of a SINGLE 'overdraft fee' in the amount of $140. Especially when the account balance at the time was $275.51. And it's further confirmed by the fact that THEY cannot EXPLAIN it THEMSELVES.

Wenever there is a CLEAR explanation for a FEE that the customer is not aware of, the bank is ALWAYS able to explain the reason for the fee, ALWAYS. The fact that they CAN'T says it all.

Maybe the Wachovia EMPLOYEE Striderq who frequently posts on the ROR can shed light on a single 'overdraft fee' of $140 or $265. That is, if Mr. Striderq is still willing and ACCESSIBLE

It seems that his posts STOPPED rather suddenly after I dropped the bombshell that Washington Mutual here in Dallas posts transactions in the order they occur, not in order of largest amounts to smallest amounts. Directly contradicting other posts that claimed Washington Mutual post in order of amount, same as ALL of the other large National Banks. Now explain that to me......never mind. That's a different subject. I digress.

Hopefully Striderq is still around and can shed light on your obviously strange problem here. Time will tell.

There was $275.51 in the checking account. They REMOVED $140 from the account and left me with $135. The reason they took out the money was "overdraft fee". No separate fees were listed and the account did not have a negative balance AT THAT TIME.
Their actions caused a negative balance.

Repeated calls to Wachovia, including one with my attorney on a 3-way call found them neither able to successfully account for their actions nor willing to rectify the situation.

In the past, when there was an overdraft, I received a postcard with a number to call, which put me through to support people who knew what was going on and would rectify any errors the bank had made.

That team no longer exists.
The card I got from them this past week, no longer has a support number on it.
Also, my online statement is no longer available a month at a time, it has information a week at a time now, you have to click through a bunch of screens to get to the full month's balance.
I'll be dealing with the Consumer Affairs Dept and the Better Business Bureau while my attorney comes up with a course of action on this.

The fact you checked your balance online proves why you overdrew. The balance online does not reflect (1) transactions with a debit card that a merchant has yet to submit, (2) checks that haven't cleared. You CANNOT rely on an online balance to determine what is available in your account because of these transactions. The bank doesn't get that information until the merchant or payee submits the transaction to the bank. In the future - don't rely on it because it will get you into trouble if you run on a small balance.

I don't know if your bank does this, but it will list your pending deposit if it is direct deposited; if it shows as pending, it will remain that way until all of the checks/debits/fees post for the day. In other words, you deposit is there, but it isn't available for you to spend. In the future, please keep a written transaction of your spending in the account, be it in EXCEL, in writing, etc... The only thing you TRULY need to check your online balance for is (1) strange fees, (2) fraud transactions. That is the true value of the online balance to anyone.

Zilly, The OP is kind of confusing. Please help clarify. Even though you say you found 'a $140 overdraft fee', I'm going to assume that you're actually referring to FOUR overdraft fees, $35 each, which totalled $140. Is this correct? Next, did all of these fees POST to your account on 11/05/2007, when you noticed them, or did they post to your account before this date?

I cannot figure at all what you mean by $265 overdraft? Once again, like the first example, is the $265 actually multiple fees, and not one fee? What specific DATE did this fee/fees post?

Depending on when the $140 overdraft fees posted, these fees could be for transactions that overdrew your account on 11/2 or 11/1, or even over the weekend on 11/4 or 11/3. Are you stating FOR A FACT that at NO TIME ever during these four or five days that your account WAS EVER negative? If so, then your OP is legit. If your account did become overdrawn on any of these days, then this might be where the first four overdraft fees came from. We need you to clarify some of these specifics.

I check my status and balance online. The fund were were AVAILABLE and IN THE ACCOUNT. There's never been any question of their availablity. Nor is their any question that the funds I used were mine to use.
This is about usuary, which used to be illegal. I'm not sure if it still is.

You believe that once your money is Direct Deposited to you - it should be available immediately. That is where ignorance plays into your situation. Direct Deposited money isn't available to you as quickly as you think it should be. What you need to do is determine when SPECIFICALLY is your money available to you. Is it the same day? NO Is it the next day? YES

I want to be really clear about this so I will explain it again in another way. Any spending you do on the day your deposit is supposed to hit your account will post BEFORE your direct deposit check does. For example, if your account balance is $50 on the day your direct deposit is suppposed to post, and you spend $150 on medicine, the balance in your account will be a NEGATIVE $100 and you'll get hit with an NSF fee of $35, bringing your balance to a NEGATIVE $135.00. It isn't until all of your other spending and bank fees are posted before your Direct Deposit is posted. This is all part of the account agreement you have with the bank - if you believe it to be unfair, you should be aware this practice is virtually industry-wide. Almost every major bank in the country does this and the few that don't are becoming fewer. You may wish to consider using a credit union instead - they do not post transactions in this manner and your Direct Deposit may be available sooner with them than a bank.

Now the bank waived fees the last time not because you were overly persuasive but because you probably hadn't done it before and they were being nice to you. That works only once. It's the reason why you're getting nowhere in getting the fees refunded. Best of luck to you.

I filed the initial complaint. This is a response to the response. This did not happen based on either my ignorance or negligence. I know how to use my checking account. I am also very knowledgeable about my direct deposits. This is a bank scam, and it's the second time in 6 months it's happened. This is an attempt to steal funds, because, I'm assuming, Wachovia believe they can put one over on their customers.

If you see overdraft fees charged on Monday, Nov. 5, that is because you overdrafted on Friday, Nov. 2. If your disability check was directly deposited on Friday, it may have posted AFTER all your charges and checks posted on Friday, and therefore the fees. It doesn't matter if they know they have your money, they will still charge you the fees.

Even though you know you are getting a direct deposit on Friday, you may not be able to USE the money until Saturday. You need to ask your bank. I believe you think that because you have your disability directly deposited on Friday, that you can use the money on Friday. It used to work that way with all banks. Now only some banks allow you to actually use the money on Friday, the day of your direct deposit, and some banks do not let you actually use the money until the next day. You need to find out from your bank which policy they use and consider switching banks.