William Brown LuvRefractors (eBay Screenname) Repeatedly Files Negative Feedback on Sellers After Refusing To Pay For Item For Over a Week Crystal Lake, Illinois

Trust me............I know all about ebay. I have had tons and tons of people who were rather difficult to work with but in the end everything worked out great. Here's an example when dealing with someone who has not sent a payment for 2 weeks:

Hello there. My name is Steven. You were the winning bidder on my auction and I still have not received a payment for it. If you are having problems paying or if you would like to back out of the auction please let me know. In 48 hours you will see a non-paying bidder dispute and again if you would like to back out then we can mutually agree to not complete the transaction. Just let me know what you would like to do.

And my customers loved that and no negative feedback ever resulted because I didn't come off as a p***k who demanded payment. Yes its annoying but that business.

As sellers its our job to keep the people who buy from us happy even when they are difficult. Sometimes too when your buyers are angry they won't even contact you. They will let you know by leaving you negative feedback. There is no golden rule for buyers in that area. So at that point you contact the buyer and make things right. They may even take back the negative feedback or they might not but all that matters in the end is that they are happy.

This too: Feedback extortion is a policy violation and ebay will remove the feedback if the seller can provide proof. I'm under the impression that since you typed this very long sad report that it didn't.

As far as fraud I alone lost $480 due to someone stealing another persons identity and used her credit card. I have had chargebacks and I've even refunded people for items without even getting the items back. In case you don't understand that's called a loss and the longer you stay in buisiness the more you're exposed to these issues.

So............I'm sorry he hurt your feelings. You should honestly share this story with your mom because I'm sure she can give you a hug and make you feel better. She can probably give you some gas money the next time you run your packages in to the post office to make up for the wasted trip you had with the customer you're complaining about.

It's you Robert. Steven was actually trying to give you some advice and the way you responded to him tells me that you're no different than the person you're complaining about. You ran into a tough customer but the way you're acting tells me that you're probably one of those sellers that gave ebay the reason as to why they made that policy to begin with.

Since you couldn't smear your customer back you filed a report here to get even with him and that's really classy. Great way to show off your professionalism and business there Robert.

Steven In Sturgis,

If you think doing business on ebay should mean acceptance of dishonest business practices, fraud and theft, then you are sadly ignorant and mistaken...

The FACT is this person COSTS sellers MONEY when they lose on their shipping costs, time and listing fees, while simultaneously damaging their online reputation.

If you read the policy on feedback on ebay, there are strict warnings about feedback extortion and buyers that fail to make timely payment.

This buyer, Mr. Brown delayed payment and used shipping time as an excuse to leave negative feedback without ever making any attempt at communicating with the seller to resolve his alleged shipping issues.

Why would a buyer delay payment, leave immediate negative feedback and threaten negative feedback unless they simply did not want to pay for an item...

You obviously seem to think negative feedback is part of doing business, but not when fraud has occurred.

I think your grammar is congruent with your level of experience with ebay. Please refrain from anymore dialogue with this case as you understand little about ethical business practices.

How about I buy something from you on ebay, then refuse to pay for it for over a week.... send you a threatening email days later demanding a refund and then leave YOU negative feedback for nor being a "timely shipper"

Do you really wish to maintain that it is OK for buyers to lie about a transaction when they no longer wish to purchase an item?

Do you really believe buyers should be able to make ad homenim attacks towards a seller or threats to get a refund?

And do you really think buyers that omit facts intentionally with the motive of finding a technicality caused by their own lack of payment and lack of communication is an ethical way of doing business?

If so, do me a favor and never bid on my auctions.

Stay away from ebay because we don't need people that could care less about throwing false accusations, negative comments and feedback on ebay simply because "its part of doing business"

Do you even own a business?

Dont tell me that someone can purchase something from, delay payment, have an unpaid item case opened against them and then file a complaint against the seller maintaining that the item didnt ship quick enough....

Your input is neither ethical or accurate.

Unless you are willing to have your name and ebay reputation damaged by lies, fabrication and intentional fraud, then leave well enough alone as this doesn't concern you.

The fact is people that manipulate the system and leave negative feedback without ever attempting to resolve an issue do often have ulterior motives like NOT wanting to pay for an item, or buyers remorse.

The current ebay feedback policy is that sellers cannot leave negative feedback for buyers. That is unethical to start with.

Maybe you could care less about your reputation but others in business have higher standards and do not allow people to LIE and OMIT information.

This ebay buyer Mr. Brown intentionally left negative feedback and never gives sellers an opportunity to resolve an issue.

It is a well known fact that sellers on ebay always ask buyers to first email them before leaving negative feedback if they have an issue.

This ebay user CREATED an issue by delaying payment and then slandered a business once again on ebay, utilizing threat of feedback.

Then this user left negative feedback without giving the seller any opportunity to resolve the issue. The seller refunded the money and incurred shipping costs for an item the buyer demanded not to be shipped...

In fact, the buyer threatened that if the item was shipped they would send it back and leave feedback....

So they were refunded as soon as the email was received by the seller. The sellers that are the recipient of this have been the victims of feedback extortion, and fraud ( as the issue the buyer maintains is an excuse to get out of paying and the buyer then quickly leaves negative feedback damaging the online reputation of the seller without stating the fact that they intentionally didnt pay for the item within 3 days like most honest buyers.

The buyer has be unjustly enriched by the opportunity to cost sellers money and time, and to bid on auctions and not pay for them.

Maybe you think, wasting a sellers time, money and resources is ok... but its NOT.

And adding insult to injury, the audacity of alleging it is the sellers fault when the buyer has done zero to resolve an alleged issue is sheer dishonesty and is NOT an example of "part of doing business"

You sir need to take a class on business ethics....

The truth is, many of these types of negative feedback situations are in fact caused by an alleged issue after non=payment in the first place by a buyer....

The fact that a seller cannot warn other ebay users about ebay buyers that engage in unethical feedback practices like this does not excuse the fact that is WRONG to buy an item from a seller on ebay, and then refuse to answer emails or pay for the item...

It is equally wrong for a buyer to send an email telling a seller not to ship an item when the buyer in fact has not paid for item until after sending a threatening email about leaving feedback unless a refund in granted.

The case in question involves a buyer that paid for the item a week late, but only after ebay forced them to or they would receive a "mark" on their ebay record known as an unpaid item strike...

Strange, how this buyer CARES enough about getting an unpaid item strike on their record... but could care less about dishing out negative feedback and remarks via ebay and email.

In fact this buyer laughed (lol) in their correspondence at the fact that after they made their payment, they would NOT remove or revise their negative feedback even after being fully refunded...

So heres a suggestion...

Sell an item on ebay.... Loose money on shipping, lose money on gas to attempt ship the item and then hold the item and dont ship it...

Lose your time corresponding with a ebay buyer that wont communicate until after they have already damaged your reputation...

And then say...Yes...I understand that a buyer can lie, waste my time and money and thats ok cause its part of doing business...

And then see how long you survive on business anywhere...

Good luck.

I think a class action lawsuit will remedy the problem with ebays current policy which fosters and permits buyers leaving false feedback towards sellers.

 I will not stand for it and will not sell to crooks and unethical people on ebay.
You on the other hand sound like someone that doesnt mind having your time and money wasted. Good for you. Its a free country.

maybe you additionally care less when a buyer bears false witness against you...

Again, unless you are in the same shoes and have your reputation damaged after being lied to and witnessing a system that is biased towards buyers, then please stay out of this.

I guarantee you there are plenty of sellers on ebay that would agree to a class action law suit.

Take care

Feedback is your selling history. Complaints come with the buisness and people beleive that because they negative feedback that they are going to loose everything. God forbid you get a negative for the end is near.
But in buisness you're going to run into many more of these people and it stresses you out this bad then you should take your buisness some place else rather than coming into this forum to complain. Ive never seen such a long report based on something that comes along with doing buisness.

Ashley,

As of May 2008 Sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for a buyer. Especially buyers that refuse to communicate with a seller to resolve concerns with shipping and handling time, shipping cost and damage to items.

This unlevel playing field favors buyers, many of which are new to ebay and throw around negative feedback which damages the reputation of sellers that were never given the opportunity to resolve an issue or issue a credit.

Leaving someone negative feedback according to ebay requires that you have ALREADY attempted to resolve an issue with the seller. In fact, a warning comes up when you attempt to leave negative feedback asking if you have adequately contacted the seller and given sufficient time for communication.

Here's an example of WHY leaving someone negative feedback is unethical when you have not even attempted to resolve an issue.

A low feedback international buyer writes to a seller on ebay and requests the opportunity to bid on a new ipad 2. The seller agrees to ship the item internationally making an exception and sends the item with tracking.

The items sells for over $600 and is delivered. Next the buyer files a claim with their credit card company alleging that they never authorized the transaction and that someone use their credit card without their permission.

The $600 funds are charged back via paypal and the seller loses their money for approx 30 days. An investigation ensues... the seller repeatedly attempts to contact the buyer via email. The buyer refuses to communicate via email.

Next papal investigates and discovers the seller is eligible for seller protection and returns to the funds to the seller.

While the seller is happy about being one of the lucky cases that are decided in their favor, they are extremely angry at having their funds being tied up and being manipulated by the buyer.

In this instance the seller wishes to WARN other ebay seller about this dishonest buyer that like to file claims with their credit card company or paypal to get items for free.

Only problem is as of May 2008 sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for buyers. So what we have here is a double standard. Buyers can simply purchase an item, and before it even arrives they can leave negative feedback for a seller if they have the weakest justification.

In the case of William Brown most of the negatives he leaves are for shipping time, shipping costs and damage, but others appear to be based on buyers remorse.

What you DONT see are the EMAILS this ebay buyer sends to ebay sellers demanding a refund before they have even received the item, threatening to leave feedback against the seller.

In many cases the buyer leaves the negative feedback before a seller has a chance to respond to the email. In other cases the seller that wishes to always resolve matters BEFORE resorting to leaving damaging feedback will REFUND every penny the buyer paid, only to find the buyer still leaves negative feedback telling only ONE SIDE of the story in their feedback.

In William Brown's case, Mr. Brown ignored emails from ebay for non-payment for over a week after bidding on and winning an auction.

This is no accident. This usually is indicative of a buyer with remorse that feels they paid too much for an item. It also can simply be a buyer that is not responsible on ebay that is poor with communication.

A bid is a contract on ebay. And both buyers and sellers understand that usually.

What is disturbing is the fact that now that sellers have no reasonable way to leave feedback for deadbeat buyers... the buyers are taking advantage of the system.

In fact, without the threat of damage to their own feedback score and online reputation, many ebay buyers like Mr. Brown, leave numerous damaging remarks against sellers with total immunity to any recourse from sellers.

With no threat to their own reputation, many buyers laugh at the prospect of wrongfully leaving disparaging remarks about a seller, when in fact, they have NOT followed ebays rules in regard to leaving negative feedback.

A buyer MUST contact a seller and attempt to resolve issues, before leaving negative feedback. Also a buyer should never threaten to leave negative feedback before receiving an item them won.

Mr Brown DOES threaten to leave negative feedback to sellers, because he knows that ebay sellers can NOT leave negative feedback for him.

This unethical behavior stems from buyers that almost always dont want to pay for an item.

Yes, some cases an item is received late or could have been packaged better, but this could have been worked out with the seller providing a refund and an apology.

Instead, buyers like Mr. Brown do NOTHING to attempt to work with a seller that is only human and may have made a mistake. Instead buyers like Mr. Brown open a case with paypal alleging that the item hasnt shipped yet BEFORE even contacting a seller.

This is against ebay policy.

Perhaps you dont use ebay too much. But how would you like it if you opened you ebay profile page and you had over 25 negative feedbacks for circumstances you attempted to prevent and remedy, yet you were branded a "loser" or "liar" by sellers like Mr. Brown?

The fact that buyers feel they can leave negative feedback without any worry of receiving feedback in kind, is evidence at how messed up the system really is.

Most normal buyers on ebay DO attempt to workout an issue with a seller and leave positive or neutral feedback.

Those ebay users are not the focus of the defamation.

The defamation occurs when buyers refuse to pay for an item for over a week, then file a case with paypal alleging that the item hasnt shipped and immediately leave negative feedback for a seller after sending a threatening email demanding a refund.

A seller should have the right to warn other sellers about buyers that intentionally delay payment of an item, and then threaten to leave negative feedback if they dont get a refund, simply because allegedly the item hasnt shipped.

Look, most sellers have a system for shipping items. And when a dishonest buyer doesnt pay for an item it disrupts their natural flow of inventory.

I believe many buyers intentionally receive wait over a week, almost receiving an "unpaid item strike" as Mr. Brown has repeatedly done, simply so they can file a claim later that the item hasnt shipped yet....

In many cases since over a week has transpired, the seller will take a few additional days to catch the item in their inventory and get it shipped.

In addition, ebay seller always list a "handling time" in their auction listings which is almost always 3-5 business days...

So what happens is they attempt to ship the item which was paid for over a week late by the buyer only to find that the buyer has already opened a case with paypal stating the item hasnt shipped.

The seller then receives an email demanding a refund when the buyer finally had just paid for the item over a week late a few days earlier.

In many of these cases, the buyer leaves negative feedback before the seller can even respond or ship the item.

In my case the buyer threatened to leave feedback but because he didnt use the word negative" in his email eBay would not remove the feedback. He failed to accurately mention the fact that I refunded his money despite the fact that an unpaid item case was opened against him after he refused to make payment for over a week.

The fact that this buyers thinks nothing of leaving negative feedback, delaying payment intentionally, and telling HALF truths about a seller, is WHY he is both unethical and dishonest.

The fact is you cannot see the private emails and feedback extortion tactics that many buyers use, now that buyers KNOW that negative feedback can ever be left against them.

You'll notice that in the feedback profile of a buyer like William only the negative feedback he has received is shown initially on his profile.

You have to click on the "feedback left for others" to begin to see the pattern of intentional negative  feedback manipulation left by this user.

If Mr. Brown simply communicated with a seller and secured a refund BEFORE leaving negative feedback, thus giving the seller SOME opportunity to resolve an issue that would be honest.

but NO. Mr Brown prefers to DAMAGE the reputation of legitimate sellers on ebay by leaving negative feedback even IF the sellers has refunded him.

Why not leave a neutral feedback if a seller has refunded a buyer? In fact, Mr. Brown never even gave this seller a chance as he has likely done repeatedly to sellers on ebay.

Negative feedback was left. This seller received an email demanding a refund. This seller immediately issued a refund no questions asked. This seller complied only to discover that negative feedback had already been left.

Interesting how the negative feedback left from ebay buyers like Mr. Brown FAILS to mention that he had a case opened against him for NON-PAYMENT for over a WEEK.

Interesting how the negative remarks in his repeated negative feedbacks left for others fails to mention the fact that he often intentionally delays payment in order to actually CAUSE shipping delays so he has an EXCUSE to file a case with paypal.

Interesting how unethical behavior like this, where bad ebat buyers can knowingly and intentionally leave negative and biased information against sellers that have done everything to resolve an issue... or in this case, sellers that have received negative feedback that were NEVER responded to, ignored, and even refunded the payment only to find a buyer that got their money back with no worry of ever having their reputation damaged.

This is due to the fact that sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for buyers like Mr. William Brown.

So in a nutshell. Here is my suggestion. if you havent already, JOIN ebay and list a few items lying around your home or garage that you dont need.

Next watch you auctions and answer all emails and questions from potential bidders. Next when you sell your items get ready to package them and drive to the gas station to ship...

But wait, theres a problem... ONE of your bidders that won your auction has NOT paid....

Its been almost a week... So NOW you have to make TWO trips 15 miles to your post office...
Lovely...

Next, you finally get paid over a week late for the item... You attempt to ship the item on your day off but you have car troubles... or maybe a family member (like mine) is IN the emergency room and is critically ill....

So you rush home after the hospital and print a shipping label and plan on shipping the item within 3-5 business days of WHEN you received payment, the next monday morning...

Next, you receive a threatening email informing you that a paypal case has been filed against YOU....

The email is cryptic and demands a refund or else the buyer will leave " appropriate feedback:" for YOU...

You attempt to email the buyer but just like before, there is NO response.

So you REFUND the item after already PAYING for SHIPPING out of your own pocket.

Next, you login into your eBay account and find you have  a GIANT RED NEGATIVE left about YOU
stating that YOU didnt ship an item quickly enough!

Strange how the buyer can intentionally waste your time  and fail to answer emails or make payment and then leave you NEGATIVE feedback, yet you HAVE NO RECOURSE...

You cannot leave negative feedback for the seller that wasted your time after you carefully photographed, uploaded photos, listed, wrote the auction description, answered emails and drove to the post office two times....

WHEN you have endured having your NAME and REPUTATION damaged online after having your time wasted by someone that is dishonest... perhaps then and only then would you have a clue at just how wrong leaving NEGATIVE feedback is especially when it is now done with immunity against honest sellers on ebay by buyers that feel they can get away with it simply because no feedback can be left against them.

The fact that buyers can leave feedback telling lies or half truths about the transaction is by definition FRAUD ( lying about or omitting information about the transaction)

The fact is many buyers Like Mr. Brown never even attempt to resolve an issue with a seller. They have just discovered its easier to manipulate the system to get their money back while damaging th reputation of others.

Leaving negative feedback that is based on lies and omitting the truth is both FRAUD and DEFAMATION of character towards the seller. Yet the buyer enjoys immunity from retribution on ebay  because sellers cant leave anything but positive feedback.

The result

Sellers cannot be warned about buyers that bear false witness against other sellers.

You decide just how ethical it is for someone to LIE about you after you go out of your way to do an honest business on ebay in addition your busy work schedule...

Next decide if someone wasting your time and money (shipping and listing labor) is really worth
it only to discover that they not only have cost you your time and money, but also have in fact damaged your reputation online...

Then and only then will you begin to understand the reason for this warning.

best regards

I just looked over his profile and I counted ~25 negative feedbacks left out of the last 500 items purchased. Considering he has left 475 positive feedbacks after purchasing cards, he is clearly capable of doing do. I don't see anything in his profile to suggest a chronic problem nor do I see any defamation of character. The majority of his complaints seem to be over improper packaging and damage to the cards he is buying. I can see this being a legitimate concern for a card collector. '

I don't see anything that illustrates him being libelous or defamating anyone. Perhaps in private emails he is different but I see nothing in a public forum

Steven in Sturgis,

You honestly didnt read the "feedback left for others" section of this users ebay feedback profile.

There are over a dozen negative feedback examples where this user left negative feedback in order to secure a refund.

For some reason ebay sellers freak out over negative feedback. A long time ago I was browsing on ebay and (many years ago) I found a seller who had over 30,000 feedback points but had over 700 negative feedback points and over 50 during that month alone but yet that didn't stop hunderds of other people from buying from them.

But in buisness you have to understand that no matter what you do or how you do it there will allways be that someone who you cannot and will not please. But if people find a good deal and you're being pleasent with the people who are buying from you.

I've never heard of someone getting stressed out over something like this. Maybe if something like this causes this much of a mental breakdown you should not continue.

Ebay sellers have to know that with ebays new feedback policy that stuff like this is a risk and should be expected. If you think you're being extorted then you should contact ebay and provide the proof so they can help.

I typed in the ebay user name you provided and I did notice 2 negative feedback points he received and I did think he responded very rude in his reply but as a buyer I didn't find anything that would suggest that he's as bad as described in this report. I went there and expected to find at least 2 dozen negatives and it turned out to be quite the opposite.

But if every ebay seller typed up a report on this site about every negative feedback point that one of their customers gave them would be horrible. It would be impossible to find peoples reports who were scammed.