• Report: #521103

Complaint Review: Bart Baggett

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  • Submitted: Sat, November 07, 2009
  • Updated: Thu, March 25, 2010

  • Reported By: Gigi2467 — Dallas Texas United States of America
Bart Baggett
Internet United States of America

Bart Baggett HandwritingUniversity.com Could Bart Baggett by a Fraud? You decide! Internet

*Consumer Comment: I have never had a problem with them myself

*Consumer Comment: Negative Postings Rebuttal

*Consumer Comment: First Bart, Curt Baggett now Brett Baggett and his sister Laurie Hoeltzel put a fraud on the courts

*Consumer Comment: All Baggett's are bad people. All of evil doers who must be punished by God.

*Consumer Comment: It has been proven that Bart and his daddy Curt Baggett are FRAUDS. Curtis Baggett has been thrown out of Federal and State Courts in Maine, Georgia, Illinois, Texas, etc., etc.

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Lies #1 Rebuttal: The facts and the truth:

*REBUTTAL Owner of company: Never Disqualified ! More Lies from competitors. Read the truth here.

*Author of original report: UPDATE on Bart Baggett and Handwriting University

*Consumer Suggestion: Spiders and hands

*Consumer Suggestion: What I think about it

*Consumer Comment: handwriting

*Author of original report: Google Bart Baggett

*Author of original report: Is Bart Baggett a fraud or liar? You decide!

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In my opinion Bart Baggett STOLE my $$$ and then did not do what he promised. I have been asked to start this because I've heard that many others have been scammed by Bart and his sidekicks too. Help others by posting your opinions and personal experiences 100% ANONYMOUSLY... http://johnjonesjj55.blogs.experienceproject.com/9424.html#c like the people below!!! His "alias" is "Ms. Understood". Melissacatlvr: "I feel that I was also ripped off by him. When I Google'd him I thought he was a pro but I think he has money to afford to pay for people to keep his website on top of all the searches. When I asked him questions about handwriting samples he would get irritated and finally he said he was only basic-level trained. I feel he is teaching stuff he does not even know himself and several people told me that he has stolen material from other analysts." AnimalLvr28: "I feel that I was also ripped off by Bart. [continued below]....
..... I was told they paid my AIS but then they told me they did not and I had to pay it myself. At the NADE conference I was told they do not want anything to do with anyone who is associated with Bart." KellyDeemon: "I was told he had an addiction to cocaine and sold it too despite pretending to be health-conscious." JulieR983: "I was also told that his dad Curt is a fraud too and that he is being investigated for fraud in many states because he used fake notary public stamps for his cases. My opinion is to not trust anyone if you hear bad things about others. When I looked at his cheesy website it looks like a Primerica Infomercial all full of hype and false promises." RobertL254: "Why would anyone waste time and money becoming certified by him? What a cheesy name HANDWRITING UNIVERSITY is. Think about it - would you be proud to have a cheesy name like that on your wall. Sounds like it came from a Cracker Jack box." DJK: "He refused to provide me with a refund of my handwriting course even though he has a 100% iron clad money back guarantee.  He says he has a disclaimer in there that says unless you are in default of any payments which we cannot find anywhere."
LLC: "A former follower of Barts bought this site because he was UPSET BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE A STALKER he said, QUOTE, I am famous and all famous people have stalkers and was MAD that he had not had one yet !!  So this former follower tried to make a joke for him and put STALKS of celery on it but Bart became VERY irate and here is the site http://www.bartwantsastalker.com/"
 
A complaint from the "Texas Women in Law Enforcement" conference in Texas stated that Bart's co-hort, Don, gave a presentation and was VERY unethical. They ended up kicking him out of the conference and did NOT let him finish. He was calling people nyphomaniacs and then trying to sexually come-on to a female officer !! Even worse - d Don bragged about working and learning from Bart !!"
 
Bart's father, Curt Baggett, is so unethical even his opinions are thrown out of court and not allowed back in... http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4937378,00.html.
 
Bart apparently steals other analysts materials. Case in point: Kathi McKnight, another analyst, wrote openly to the Yahoo group that there were "differences" about intellectual property. Bart took her "Tips" (similar name), published them in HIS e-mails and on his website and then COPYRIGHTED them to HIS Handwriting University. He is now selling them!!
 
Peggy Walla, Don Lehew, Curt Baggett, and Bart Baggett ALL stated the John Karr killed Jon Benet but NONE of the "real credible" analysts thought that - in fact they all laughed at their going on national tv shows stating Karr did it. Once more Bart stated SCOTT PETERSON was innocent too... on Court TV. THESE people are rediculous! http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4934911,00.html
 
NO credible analyst would EVER analyze someone (especially UNfavorably) and post the results AND the persons name, address, etc. online. Bart did - http://handwritinguniversity.com/newslettersamples/jim.html
 
A police lieutenant in Oklahoma went to a class at the community college that was taught by a former student of Barts and she said, "the lady at the votech the other day was a farse and ridiculous and she had been through Bart's course. She was not recommending him either........then out of the other side of her mouth she was all about her certification. I thought how can you feel fully trained and respectful of your own work when you know your training is BOGUS. She told us that Bart called her and asked her to get all of the local news station to get her saying that John Karr was the Killer of Jon Benet and all of this garbage. She said she did not do it. She was an embarrassment to a scientific field that I use professionally"
 
Another analyst and former student of Barts said: " feds are planning on filing an injunction and fraud charges against Bart. but I also heard that they are still in business.  Not many students taking the program though.  Rumor has it, that he's been building up the India side.  I think the Feds or who ever is doing the fraud investigation is still looking for more evidence"
 
Another student says: "The questioned document class was a sham! I remember Curt saying that "you ALWAYS rule on the side of your client".  He did not teach me on a live case WHAT to do or how to determine my opinion. He went over techniques during the audio class, but that really isn't enough when you get your first case, it is only good enough for practice. Many students needed guidance through their first few cases and he NEVER took that on - he ONLY agreed with whatever the students said and NOT challenge them on how we arrived at that decision or why we did. He's told other students the same thing.  The classes were more of a social network for their SEXUAL selections. I really felt like the whole point in being at their conference was for their opportunity to size us all up. Bart actually "landed" a student who he currently calls his girlfriend. The seminar that I went to was horrible and FULL of sexual connotations. When they analyzed our handwriting, they always used something sexual in the analysis. They would say things OUT LOUD about whose ever writing they were talking about like, "you like the lights off during sex", or "you don't get undressed in front of anyone" or "you like to lead in the bedroom", etc...  And of Course Bart and his tomato bisque shirt that he wears all the time and his faggish presentations (meaning he acts like he is gay for the comic effect, then says, "But I am not gay"), like a sex driven, stand up comedian, teaching people how to be an expert witness in a court of law, something that neither Baggett respects. Curts FAMOUS phrase for us to say when asked a question we didn't know how to answer to, was to say, "I DON"T KNOW!"   Then Bart mixes the handwriting analysis and combines it with NLP and uses that to his advantage. His handwriting materials include Handwriting Analysis Secrets of Love, Sex, and Relationships (also titled: Secrets to Making Love Happen - Mastering Your Relationships Using Handwriting Analysis & NLP) He calls it the "Relationship" book though."
 
Several handwriting analysts (all former students of Barts) stated: He has filed 53 charges of racketeering, you know like what the government charged Al Capone with? All charges are bogus and he has nothing to substantiate his claims. It is mostly because we left his school and claims that we are working together to steal his money and his students. Yes, it is Curt and Bart, well actually Bart and Handwriting Services International. Curt cannot sue because he's been deemed a vicious litigant so he can NOT file any more suits because that is how they both make money.
 
Another analyst stated, Both Curt and Bart have stated worldwide that they were trained by Dr. Ray Walker. However I got documents yesterday to prove that they were NEVER trained by ANYONE and definitely NOT Dr. Ray Walker. It is a sad thing to ride off the coat tails of a dead man.
 
Bart was supposed to have his own Reality Show called Barts Forensic Adventures but the producer, Kitty C. Stuart, maybe realized he was UNTRAINED and cancelled it. Here is the view of it seems comedy may be best for him because as a handwriting expert he is NOT qualified !!   http://www.kittystuartproductions.com/bart256k-stream.shtml

This report was posted on Ripoff Report on 11/07/2009 09:28 PM and is a permanent record located here: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Bart-Baggett/internet/Bart-Baggett-HandwritingUniversitycom-Could-Bart-Baggett-by-a-Fraud-You-decide-Internet-521103. The posting time indicated is Arizona local time. Arizona does not observe daylight savings so the post time may be Mountain or Pacific depending on the time of year.

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#1 Consumer Comment

I have never had a problem with them myself

AUTHOR: Profilady - (U.S.A.)

As an international handwriting analyst I have never experienced any problems with Bart, Curt, Peggy, or anyone else mentioned in these reports that may or may not be affiliated with Handwriting University or any of its affiliates. While I have never been a partner, teacher, contractor, or done any other type of business with them I have known of them and seen their work for many years.
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#2 Consumer Comment

Negative Postings Rebuttal

AUTHOR: Former Student - (United States of America)

I find the negative postings sad and disturbing.


I was a student  in The International School of Forensic Document Examination during 2008-2009 and found that the 2-year course was an excellent and comprehensive collegiate level curriculum to begin a career as a document examiner. 


I learned how to examine documents, worked on actual cases, was personally mentored, went through mock trials, etc. and I am successful in this career.

The course was of the highest integrity with very good instructors.


Bart Baggett taught with enthusiasm and had high expectations of students... spending as much time as was needed with me to review cases and forensic protocol to insure an objective opinion.


I was very pleased with the end result. Most successful graduate students from his course move on to continue their lifelong training as with any field of expertise. Training doesn't end with a 2-year training program. Bart encourages students to attend webinars, seminars, conferences, and join associations during training and after graduation.  In fact he encourages students to explore other avenues of learning after their training with his school.


I was confused by a statement which implied Bart Baggett promises students his training would get students "board certified" by a third party association. This was never anything that was ever promised to me.  Bart's program did promise a wide and structured education with his own certification and the assistance and goal to get students "court qualified", when and if that opportunity came to me as a working examiner.  He didn't guarantee to get  students "court qualified", but he prepared (perhaps even over-prepared) us for that first day in court.  


Whoever posted that Bart's school failed on his promises is in my opinion not stating accurate facts about Bart's program and the promises that he makes in accordance with my experiences and the training program.

Many associations offer certification programs, but none offer official training. 


Bart's training program to become a document examiner offers certification after a student completes and is mentored through real cases. A certification program gives tangible evidence that a person completed a specific course, studied, trained and finally attained specific goals. 

You cannot become certified through his training program unless you attain specific goals-including real cases.  I was very pleased with the training and received what was promised.


Curt Baggett was not a part of the school or training. So any comments about Curt Baggett and the school are puzzling and I don't know why Curt Baggett's name is combined with the reputation of Bart Baggett and his school. 

While I cannot speak for any student but myself and the classes that I attended, Curt Baggett had not been a teacher, faculty member or a mentor to me.  I had only dealt with Bart Baggett and his staff/faculty.


It appears as though someone is attempting to discredit the training program for document examiners that Bart offers.

I have to assume that whomever has posted these comments is referring to a different program, different era or a different school.  


Bart Baggett's International School of Forensic Document Examination program was a great 2-year training course!  I recommend it to anyone wanting to start a  new career in forensic document examination. 

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#3 Consumer Comment

First Bart, Curt Baggett now Brett Baggett and his sister Laurie Hoeltzel put a fraud on the courts

AUTHOR: Researching and proving the Facts!!!! - (USA)

I have an insider's view on Curt and Bart Baggett, better known as Team Baggett. The number one determining factor(s) in the cases they accept is, how much money they can make. If their client doesnt have much money, they take all of the information and/or documentation and sell it to the highest bidder. The opposing party can buy Team Baggett's opinions.  This is how Team Baggett makes their money.... The fact is that if a client needs a yes or a no, depends on how much money a potential client has. Team Baggett are tax evading, foul mouthed highly compensated liars. Their portfolio is filled with fraudulant documents. Phony Diplomas and Certificates Team Baggett created.  Bart Baggett falsely claimed he "sat at Ray Walkers feet" when he was just a baby girl ur boy.  Team Bagget has added new Baggett's to their team.. Brett Thomas Baggett and Laurie Hoeltzel, are also  Curtis Leo Baggett's children. Seems Brett and Laurie's daddy and brother are teaching them how to practice their craft which is fraud and forgery.

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#4 Consumer Comment

All Baggett's are bad people. All of evil doers who must be punished by God.

AUTHOR: Jethro M - (United States of America)

I agree that all Baggett's are bad people.  I knew a Baggett once and he gave me lunch  money.  I figure if one Baggett is nice, all of them can't be nice. Ain't that the truth.   You should give lunch money or help the poor, just to be nice.  It' ain't right.

William Boyce Baggett was a professional football player who played in the National Football League in 1952 for the Dallas Texans. Prior to playing professionally, Baggett played college football at Louisiana State University. In 1951 he played in the Blue-Gray Football Classic.[1] During the 1951 NFL Draft, Baggett was drafted in the 22nd, 265 overall, by the Los Angeles Rams. However he never played with the team.[2]


In 1928 Baggett Transportation Company began its operation in the transportation business as a local carrier in Birmingham, Alabama area hauling dynamite for the local coal companies. The company was owned and operated by Mr. Jess Baggett. By the mid 1930s, William D. Sellers, Jr. had come on board and acquired a small interest in the company.

At the end of 1941, war had broken out for the United States. Baggett was called upon by the then Department of War to help in the movement of munitions because of its past experience with the transportation of dynamite. Also, in the same period, Baggett had been fully acquired by William D. Sellers, Jr. Under the direction of William D. Sellers, Jr., Baggett evolved into a major transportation company. Not only did Baggett transport explosives and munitions for commercial shippers and the now Department of Defense, but it also entered ino the LTL business within the State of Alabama and other areas of the Southeastern United States.

In 1976 Baggett sold its LTL business and became a truckload carrier, maintaining its service with the Department of Defense and commercial shippers.

Today, Baggett Transportation Company remains one of the top carriers for the Department of Defense and is now growing in the commercial sector with its single driver division. The reasons for Baggett's success for 70 plus years are that the company is committed to a strong Safety Department, quality drivers, service to its customers and the ability to adapt with the ever-changing industry that we service. Baggett embraces the new millennium with bright prospects and a philosophy that has kept the company active in the transportation business for the last 70 years. 
 
Alley Baggett (born July 14, 1973 in Houston, Texas) is an American glamour model.
She appeared on the cover of Playboy's Book of Lingerie in May 1995. She has since appeared on more than twelve Playboy Special Edition covers. She has also been featured in British lad mags FHM and Loaded.

Outside of the modeling realm, Baggett has worked on television as a WWF Sunday Night Heat commentator on the USA Network and has appeared on Penn and Teller's Sin City Spectacular, the WB's Unhappily Ever After, Telemundo's The Umberto Show and the Maria Conchita Alonso Show. She has also performed in music videos for Ricky Martin's "Shake Your Bon-Bon" and Third Eye Blind's "Never Let You Go". Baggett was featured in a comic book series based on a crime fighting alter-ego, "Alley Cat". The comic books spawned action figures of Ms. Baggett, which are today considered collectors' items. She has also appeared in various car tuning magazines.


    1.    "Unhappily Ever After" .... Girl (1 episode, 1999)?... aka Unhappily... ?    - Sex & Violins (1999) TV episode .... Girl
    2.    "Sin City Spectacular" (1 episode, 1999)?... aka Penn & Teller's Sin City Spectacular (USA: alternative title) ?    - Episode #1.17 (1999) TV episode
    3.    Private Parts (1997) (uncredited) .... Girl in Lesbian Camp ?... aka Howard Stern's Private Parts
Self:
    1.    "Entertainment Tonight" (1981) TV series .... Herself - Correspondent (unknown episodes, 1996-1998)?... aka E.T. (USA: informal title) ?... aka ET Weekend (Australia: weekend title) ?... aka Entertainment This Week (weekend title) ?... aka This Week in Entertainment (USA: weekend title)
    2.    Playboy: Girls of Hooters (1994) (V) (as Alma Baggett) .... Herself


Owen J. Baggett was a second lieutenant in the United States 7th Bomb Group based at Pandaveswar, in India, during the Second World War.


On March 31, 1943 the squadron was instructed to destroy a bridge at Pyinmana, but before reaching their target the B-24 bombers were attacked by Japanese fighter planes. Baggett's plane was badly hit, and the crew were ordered to bail out. As the B-24 exploded, the Japanese pilots attempted to shoot the US airmen as they parachuted to earth, one plane approaching Baggett within feet, and then, nose-up and in an almost-stall, the pilot opened his canopy. Baggott claims to have shot the Japanese pilot with his pistol, becoming legendary as the only person to down a Japanese airplane with a .45 handgun. He was later captured by the Japanese, and held for over two years.

Baggett/Bagot Family History
Comprehensive Access to Records
of the Baggett/Bagot Family
Maury Baggett, Editor
Silver Birch Award Recipient

The comprehensive records on the Baggett/Bagot family are provided that you may have access to abundant history and genealogy. All data on this site can be found in public records in several nations around the world. You will not find any personal data on this site that may be harmful to the individual. There are no regular mail or electronic mail addresses on this site, unless the individual has given explicit permission to post them. Names and birth dates are listed down to the year 1900, with those having no record of death being absent.

We have posted researchers material who have given us permission to do so, and if you desire to have your material posted on the Shared Files page, you may do so. All you need to do is follow the instructions on the Sharing Files page. The site provides a large amount of given names and nearly as many surnames that are connected in some way with the Baggett/Bagot family. If you are looking for an ancestor, post your material on the Shared Files page. By doing so, it gives you access to a great number of people who visit this site that may have the answer you are looking for.

All information on this site that has not been satisfactorily proven to be correct is followed by the word: conjectural. Other information should be correct, since it was gathered from things such as census records, wills, deeds, or other things that would apparently prove it to be factual.  We advise everyone who sends their material to be posted on the Shared Files page to mark those items that are not proven to be fact as conjectural. We are confident that practically all material has been characterized correctly on this site so far.

All records of this prominent family presented on this site are from the United States, Australia, and Europe. They appeared in England in the eleventh century, Ireland in the twelfth century, America in the seventeenth century and Australia in the nineteenth century. And we now have a lineage back through England, which has been searched diligently for a long time. Undoubtedly, records of the family exist in other countries that we do not have in our database. (This link shows you the many countries of those who have visited this site during the past few years):

Records of the family, according to data our genealogists have researched and we have presented on this site, indicate that they were in ancient Flanders in the tenth century and probably before. Links to other sites also provide this information. There they are recorded in Flanders as a very prominent family. All this information will be found in the Name Origins section and on the Name Origins Certificate, but some of it still highly conjectural until more documentation is found to prove it to be adequately authentic. Most sites you see when you search for the name Bagod only go back to Bagod Bromley in England. (These are the Arms of Bagod de Arras shown on the Battle Abbey Roll):

This prominent Baggett Family is now being researched by FamilyCastles.com and is already shown that Bagod Bromley is the one in the family that built Saint-Omer Castle in Belgium, but this is also considered conjectural. The information they once had was that Bagod d Arras and the Carlovingion Counts of  Artois occupied the castle of Saint-Omer, but they have abandoned this assumption because of some reason.
In the Name Origins Sections you will find links to a site that has a book printed in 1874 with the same information I have on the Name Origins Certificate. You should click on these links and read this information on page 146 & 147. At the top, click on "About This Book" for important information.

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#5 Consumer Comment

It has been proven that Bart and his daddy Curt Baggett are FRAUDS. Curtis Baggett has been thrown out of Federal and State Courts in Maine, Georgia, Illinois, Texas, etc., etc.

AUTHOR: Ripped off in Texas - (USA)

Several handwriting analysts (all former students of Bart's) stated: "He has filed 53 charges of racketeering, you know like what the goverment charged AlCapone with? All charges are bogus and he has nothing to substantiate his claims. It is mostly because we left his school and claims that we are working together to steal his money and his students. Yes it is Curt and Bart, well actually Bart and Handwriting Services International.  Curt cannot sue because he's been deemed a vicious litigant so he can NOT file any more suits because that is how they both make money.

IF you check out past lawsuits filed by Bart and his business partner Curtis Baggett, it becomes obvious they do not file bogus lawsuits to make money.  Bart and Curtis Baggett do this to cost the defendant(s) they sue.  I believe Bart has filed these 53 unsubstantiated lawsuits against his former students so they will have to hire attorney(s) to defend them, perhaps Bart is hoping doing this will financially ruin his former students and keep them too busy to have their attorney(s) investigate Bart Baggett, his daddy Curtis Baggett and their phony University(s)/Institute(s) and/or other business's. On at least one of Barts websites he states, "Bart Baggett and/or Handwriting University has never been sued OF fraud." I hope any of these past HSI student(s) gather enough evidence to sue Bart Baggett, his daddy and their bogus University(s) for FRAUD!  This should also raise the question why weren't you arrested for racketeering? Seems there was no evidence that any one of these 53 students committed such heinous crime(s)! On the other hand Curtis and Bart Baggett might have a different problem.  Have your attorney check out the Federal Rules of Evidence that governs Expert testimony. To be eligible to be considered a handwriting expert one must have studied under an Expert for a period of several years or attended crediable school and/or classes taught by crediable people.

STATED ABOVE: "Another analyst stated, "Both Curt and Bart stated worldwide that they were trained by Ray Walker. However I got documents yesterday to prove that they were NEVER trained by ANYONE definitely not Ray Walker. It is a sad thing to ride off the coats of a dead man."

1.  Bart Baggett must have been in high school or going to college in California when he alleges he was serving an apprenticeship under an Expert.  The expert Bart claims he studied under was Ray Walker who lived in Dallas, Texas. If you look up any of the court cases Ray Walker testified in you will find Bart Baggett is not mentioned as being present in any of these courts and/or depositions. Fact is Bart Baggett took a beginners class during a summer break or maybe a night class taught by Ray Walker.  Beginners' classes under a real expert such as Ray Walker were for two hours, two day a week for six weeks. There is NO evidence or record(s) to substantiate Bart Baggett's claims that he studied under Ray Walker at any other time.

2.  In a 2006 Federal Court Case in Georgia, Curtis Baggett alleged he studied under Ray Walker "for TEN years". When the court challenged  Curtis Baggett he admitted that that part of his deposition was, "a mistake".  This is obviously a "mistake" Curtis Baggett has made many times in all fifty states and several foreign countries (which is something Curtis Baggett has claimed). In the same court records regarding (now deceased) Ray Walker's court testimoney and/or depositions as an Expert Witness- Curtis Baggett is NEVER mentioned as being present at any of these court proceedings. Curtis Baggett made no "mistake" but he did misrepresent the truth. Or as Bart would describe it, "he lied".

IN Bart Baggett's rebuttal (above) he states: "People would have you believe because we have the same last name we are buisness partners. We are not business partners, but we are friends. I continue to list his name on some of my websites. He is a valued guest speaker at our Annual Conference.               Curt Baggett's credentials are his credentials, not mine."

ACTUALLY Curt Baggett is Bart Baggett's Daddy and his buisness partner.                  Ref: Handwriting Services International; HSI; Handwriting University; Handwriting University's School of Forensic Doucument Examination (Booklett) "APPRENTICE SUBCONTRACTOR PROCEDURES MANUAL": Page 1 Paragraph 1 there is a picture of Curtis Baggett and beside the picture of Curtis Baggett he is described as follows: "Curt Baggett--Co-Founder and Faculty: Mr. Baggett is the co-founder of Handwriting University and lead facility member.  Page 1 Paragraph 3 (of the same booklett) There is a picture of Bart Baggett and beside Bart Baggett's picture he is described as, "Bart Baggett--Co-Founder and Faculty; Mr. Baggett is one of the World's leading handwriting experts and co-founder of Handwriting University."

IN Bart Baggett's rebuttal (above) he denies he has ever been disqualified in any court and stated, "I have never been disqualified in any court anywhere PERIOD!

IT is a Fact that Bart Baggett appeared on the Judge Judy Show and was scolded by Judge Judy for his lack of expertise and Bart Baggett's lack of expertise caused his client to lose the case.

IF Curtis and/or his son and buisness partner Bart Baggett have presented copies of the certifications they allegedly earned from their alleged apprenticeship under Ray Walker perhaps someone should subpona the origional document(s). Should this happen it would be proven that the document(s) were signed by someone other than Ray Walker and/or find it to be the cut and pasted signature of Ray Walker and that  Curtis and/or Bart Baggett have no origional documents signed by Ray Walker (except for maybe the beginner class) Could it be Bart and/or Curtis Baggett provided phony documents to courts, attorney(s) and other's falsely claiming they were valid copies of an origional?  (Curtis and Bart surely know that the FBI lab(s) Forensic Doucment Examiners can prove how old a document is as well as how old the ink is on a document.  They can also prove if the document was printed in a print shop, which is where Ray Walker had his Certification document(s) printed).

IN Bart Baggett's rebuttal (above) he claims Handwriting Services International/HSI is an online directory that lists Handwriting Experts and NOT a site where Handwriting analysis is taught!  So I got out the booklett given to me and on the front cover under the Handwriting Services International; HSI; Handwriting University logo in big bold black lettering APPRENTICE SUBCONTRACTOR PROCEDURES MANUEL.  Bart Baggett is clearly not telling the truth!  It makes me wonder what he is trying to cover-up!

IN Bart Baggett's rebuttal (above) he begs anyone reading Ripoff Report(s) about him, his daddy Curtis and/or any of their phony University(s)/Institute(s), etc., etc. to Please research the allegations against them by going to websites managed by Bart Baggett.  I was going to do just that but found many of Bart Baggett's, Curtis Baggett's and/or their University(s)/Institute(s) search engines have been RED FLAGGED by McAfee as UNSAFE! Scroll your cursor across these flags and read the warning(s) that state "Changes were made to test computers when McAfee tested this site".  Then is you click on the link anyway it will send you to a page with another WARNING!  To finallly get to Curtis and/or Bart Baggetts websites you have to click on WARNINGS! to get to the sites Bart Baggett is begging us to go and research him, his daddy and his bogus University(s)/Institute(s), etc. I chose not to ignore the RED FLAGS and WARNING(s)! I suggest any reader/researcher should respect these WARNING(S)!

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#6 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Lies #1 Rebuttal: The facts and the truth:

AUTHOR: Bart Baggett , Los Angeles, CA - (United States of America)

This is the first of numerous REBUTTAL POST from  me, Bart Baggett, in an attempt to fight the lies and slander which this webpage contains.  Please read all the posts in order to get to the truth and discover why this webpage is full of lies and realize the author's  sole intention is to defame me and my companies, in a pitiful attempt to gain a competitive edge in the business.

Yes, we have competitors in the small community of handwriting analysis

First of all, this mere fact the Rip Off Report is still in business is a shock and surprise to anyone who values truth, integrity, and the free speech laws of the Unites States, which protects the right to speak the truth and opinion and specifically prohibits libel and slander.  That being said, the slander and libel printed on this website will be prosecuted to full extent of the law, when and if the publisher (author) of the post makes himself known.

Furthermore, realize that the owner of this website firmly believes that patently false and slanderous lies should be published and remain published, without factual evidence or facts to back them up, even after all such lies are proven to be false in a court of law.  He also believes the person posting such lies should remain anonymous and refuses to release names of the anonymous authors.  Please research the owner of this website and discover for yourself the numerous accusations and lawsuits pending.  

You, and any smart consumer, should seriously question the credibility of any complaint or post found here.  This site gives freedom to post BOLD FACE LIES with no facts.  Reader beware.

So, while my attorneys attempt to take the proper legal action against the author of these slanderous posts, I will attempt to provide a rebuttal to the appalling and outrageous accusations levied against me, my companies, and my wonderful students worldwide.  We realize this type of malicious rumors hurts the credibility of our education, certificates, and the ability to make a living to those associated with me (including our staff members, volunteers, vendors, fans, and graduates.)  

Therefore, I feel obligated to post as much factual information as I can locate which rebuts the far fetched rumors articulated on this site.

When reading any post on the RIPOFF REPORT please be mindful of the typical propaganda language such as "I heard a man say this" or " A friend who knew a student said,"  or  beware of the age old "a blatant lie."  Also, you will notice this propaganda does not include specific dates, documents, facts, people's names, and any factual  evidence.  When pieces of factual evidence is replaced with innuendoes and insinuations, please question the source and draw your own intelligent conclusions.

Please be an educated consumer and realize any person who post on this website such slanderous lies has an agenda to defame and destroy someone's good reputation.  Please question her motivation and ask yourself why she chooses to remain anonymous?  Show us her name, her receipts, her damages, or any facts?  There are none, so be very very wary of what you read.

Every business has jealous competitors whose envy and malice gets the best of them.  This page is nothing more than the ramblings of a sad and desperate person who cannot compete in the world of handwriting analysis, which I have been blessed with so much success and fame over the past two decades.

Finally, my phone line is always open to a serious minded student, customer, fan, reporter, or friend who has any doubts or questions about me, my business, and my ethics. Naturally, I will take your call and answer any question that this horrible website might have sparked in your head.  

My office number is 1-800-398-2278 in North America.  We value our clients, customers, and friends and deeply regret the actions of a small minded cowardly person posting such non-sense in  public forum and putting even even one question or doubt about my ethics into the minds of my friends and customers.   

Be ware of these definitions:

libel [lahy-buhl]  Show IPA noun, verb, -beled, -beling or (especially British) -belled, -belling.
noun
1.
Law.
a.
defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.
b.
the act or crime of publishing it.
c.
a formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.
2.
anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.

slander [slan-der]  Show IPA
noun
1.
defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander.
2.
a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name.
3.
Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc.
verb (used with object)
4.
to utter slander against; defame.



************** REBUTTALS ****************


Lie #1: He does not provide refunds, per his printed 100% Iron Clad Policy:

Lie" DJK: "He refused to provide me with a refund
of my handwriting course even though he has a 100% iron clad money back
guarantee.  He says he has a disclaimer in there that says unless you
are in default of any payments but I cannot find it anywhere!"

Lies #1 Rebuttal: The facts and the truth:

Handwriting University has a very generous and rarely abused one -year refund policy for physical products
purchase through our USA based office.  We have very very low refund rate for any company at
less than 1% refunds, any given month.  But, they do happen and we cheerfully refund the money,
even on day 364 after the date of purchase.  If the person who posted this complain, DJK does exist, he should gather his
receipts and documents and contact our customer support office who will gladly process the refund, as we have
done since 1996- the year we started putting this unnecessarily long refund policy on physical products into action.

You can read the refund and return policy online.  
http://myhandwriting.com/order/refunds.html

This policy does not include third party resellers such as Amazon.com, your local bookstore, and our Campuses in India and China.  Resellers have their own policies, which may vary.  

If a company offers a ONE YEAR REFUND policy, that company better offer very very good products, or they will lose their reputation and credit card merchant abilities. The fact is we have GREAT products and many customer order a book, CD, or DVD because they feel secure and safe they can return it , with no rush.  And, most customer love what they buy.  Find out for yourself:  http://www.myhandwriting.com/order/catalog.html   

-----------------------------------------------
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#7 REBUTTAL Owner of company

Never Disqualified ! More Lies from competitors. Read the truth here.

AUTHOR: Bart Baggett , Los Angeles, CA - (United States of America)

This is more lies and black propaganda from my many competitors worldwide.  Please don't believe anything you read on this website, this site promotes telling factless lies and requires no vetting of information or the author to be posted. 

Here are the facts relating to this, the latest lie:

1. I, Bart Baggett, have been accepted and testified in courts of law as an "expert witness" in the field of forensic document examination in the states of California, Nevada, Alaska, Arizona, and Texas.   If you want a list of the actual court cases where I gave testimony recently, call my office and request it.

2. I , Bart Baggett, have never been disqualified as an expert witness, in any court, for any reason, in any state.  Period. 

3.  This website implies that Handwriting University, Handwriting Services International, and Expert Document Examiner are the same site, same company or same ownership. This is a lie.  Separate entities. Separate Bank accounts.  Different.

I, Bart Baggett, own Handwriting University International and Curt Baggett is not an owner or board member of this company.

Handwriting Services International.com  is a directory of respected forensic document examiners who all run their own independent forensic document businesses.  There are 12-15 excellent business owners listed on this site and doing business with any of them is a smart business decision.  The people listed are all independent business owners, they are not business partners.

Among the 25+ people who have been listed in the HSI online directory since 2003, Curt Bagget has been among them. There are and have been many fine examiners listed on our many websites... but they are not necessarily business partners of mine... just recommended experts.

If you dial the phone number given above, you will get Curt Baggett's office, not Handwriting University or Bart's office.

Separate entities, separate offices, separate staffs, etc.

People would have you believe because we have the same last name, we are business partners.  We are not business partners, but we are friends. I continue to list his name on some of my websites.  He is also a valued guest speaker at our Annual Conference.

Curt Baggett's credentials are his credentials, not mine. 

However, for the record. It should be notated that many attorney's have attempted to cite a Civil Court in Maine's decision to deny the admission of a "official letter of opinion" as false proof that Curt Baggett has not being admitted as a qualified expert by a sitting judge. When in fact, written letters of any expert are rarely admitted in court based on the fact they can be labeled heresy.  This "court in Maine" lie has been circulating among Curt Baggett critics for years.  Curt is routinely accepted as an expert and he will provide you a list of recent judges and court cases, if you want the facts. Call his office and talk to him.

Please don't allow this shameless black propaganda to influence your decisions.

This is just another attempt of yellow cowardly competitors who are filled with jealousy and contempt.  The person who posted this lie is simply attempting to increase his own status by tearing down those experts more successful than himself. 

You should ask yourself who created this post?
What was his agenda?
Who specifically was a victim of fraud?
And finally, who would benefit from criticizing and defaming Bart or Curt Baggett.  (Answer:  competitors.)

There was no victim here, just negative rumors and propaganda.  Research it all for yourself.
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#8 Author of original report

UPDATE on Bart Baggett and Handwriting University

AUTHOR: Gigi2467 - (United States of America)



Bart Baggett bart baggett He CHANGED some of our "evidence" after our first Rip Off Report Internet, Internet



 



Since about 1998 he has had a man's analysis up on the internet SHOWING CLEARLY the mans full name and full address. He analyzed this man VERY UNfavorably.

NOW, since our first report, he has BLACKED out the address label and name but that does not help the 11 years of DIRT he shared on the internet about this man. WHY this man ? Because he RETURNED one of Bart's items.

Here is the site...

http://handwritinguniversity.com/newslettersamples/jim.html



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#9 Consumer Suggestion

Spiders and hands

AUTHOR: Redbow - (United States of America)

This only works for the Spiders-as-Big-as-Walnuts for handwriting that knit-one-purl-two across on opening, OK. so I want to learn how to read handwriting some how. I want to do a lot of things. 

My Mum used to *cultivate* spiders, thinking they kept burglars away! I had to give at least lip service to this idea, because they certainly nearly kept *me* away!  I do not know how to think about all the things I see on television. There was one variety whose name I never learned that knitted (or tatted) *incredibly* strong nets across the pergola over Mum's driveway. I like driveways that are long winded and go up a hill. So when I came home late at night, I developed a sort of ertical salute, designed to catch the cobweb and, hopefully, avoid the traffic and the other things somehow.  I hate traffic. 

Next morning, I would secretly creep out and put Method into practice.


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#10 Consumer Suggestion

What I think about it

AUTHOR: Redbow - (United States of America)

"What's the point of going out, we're just going to end up back here anyway?" I suppose this could apply to most of the bike rides and races I have done. So while many of my brothers and sisters were engaged in triathlons, road races, and whatnot this past weekend, the kinds where you start and end in the same place, I did the kind of ride where you start in one place and end up in another one far far away. Then instead of riding back, you get a ride back to where you started from, in order to render the whole ordeal utterly useless. Kind of like the Buddhist monks that make the beautiful colored sand designs and then let the wind blow them away.
Here is some background.  My wife's parents live in Clifton Park, just north
of Albany.  We drive up to see them about once every two months, so I am pretty
familiar with the towns along the route. Last summer I got a wacky notion in
my head, wondering if I could ride from Ithaca to Albany in one day.  I was smart 
enough to not try last year, but when Ellen took the girls to see their grandparents
for a few days, I decided that Sunday would be D-Day.  (D as in "Do I know what
I am Doing?")  I would ride out and meet the family there, then we would all drive 
back together.  If I ran into trouble and wanted to bail, they could start 
home and pick me up.  I settled on using more or less the same route I drive, 
except that Route 7 would replace I-88, and I would have to pick my way through 
downtown Schenectady instead of taking the usual sections of the Thruway/Northway.

That way if I needed to be picked up there would be no complicated direction-giving and I would eliminate any anxieties about getting off course, etc. Plus most of the harder climbing would be done by the time I reached Bainbridge.

Now, dreaming up strange ways to challenge yourself and actually seeing them through are two entirely different things. For some of my randonneur friends, maybe this would not be such a big deal. But I am more of a Bilbo Baggins worry-wart guy, not usually the adventuresome type, so after getting all my things together (including printing out maps of Schenectady, buying a Camelback, driving up to my parents' house to borrow their cell phone, and installing my bike headlamp) it really hit me that I was doing something out of the ordinary on Saturday night when I set my alarm for 4:30 AM. I was nervous about getting to Schenectady after dark, so I figured I would start in the dark on roads I knew (with little or no traffic) to give myself enough of a time cushion.

And Ellen didn't want to get home too late that night. I didn't really care when I got home, just as long as I got there, but its good to keep the family happy.

As it turns out, I didn't need to set any alarm. I spent a restless night listening to some local coyotes making a racket, getting anxious about whether they would attack a lone cyclist on a dark (and wet) road. That and wondering when the rain would stop. And if you hit a deer at 5AM on a dark road, with no one around, does it make a noise? Seems pretty funny now, but it wasn't so funny then.

Aside from having riding partners, one way to make sure you will see these kinds of things through is to boast to your male buddies at work of your weekend plans so that you will be too embarassed to show up on Monday and tell them you didn't make it out the door. When I got out of bed at 4:30 AM and looked at the wet road, that thought was the only thing that motivated me to get my stuff on, eat some cereal, and head out. I checked the radar, and it seemed to indicate that the rain was over and done. The National Weather Service forecast for Sunday said "partly sunny, highs in the mid-80s." So, already a bit overloaded with stuff, and seeing as it was very warm and humid out, I opted to leave the rain jacket at home.

As it turns out, this was a mistake. You'd think since I pay my taxes, I would be able to get a decent weather forecast but I guess it doesn't work that way. More on that later.

Wow, a whole page of writing and I'm just getting to the actual riding part. Good thing no one invites me to give graduation speeches.
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#11 Consumer Comment

handwriting

AUTHOR: Redbow - (United States of America)

I always wanted to learn how to read handwriting and I think it started in high school. I had a boyfriend and his name is richard. He had dark curly hair and was taller than me. He was popular and I think its because he had a blue car. In high school if you have a car you can get a girlfriend. Well that is, if you are a guy. Why would a girl get a girlfriend unless she was gay? I don't know why and I think about that a lot. So if you can figure that out maybe you know some principle I don't. I bought a rose for him and he really liked it. I was going to buy him a plant because maybe plants are better for guys to have but I don't know. A dog would be good but who wants to have to clean up after the dog all the time? I don't know if it would be a good idea to buy a dog for him. So I just bought a rose. I have heard that there are blue roses out there to buy but I don't know how a rose can be blue when roses are supposed to be pink or red. On valentines day I like to get roses
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#12 Author of original report

Google Bart Baggett

AUTHOR: Gigi2467 - (United States of America)

If you Google Bart Baggett you will see pages about him in Google. BUT you will not see it on the first few pages. In order to find this report you have to put it 'Bart Baggett Fraud'. In other words this report will not show up and many more people could become his innocent victims and may feel like we do. I have known him for years and will admit that he is a marketing genius but that is also why he is able to keep this page from showing up. When I worked for him I saw this at work.
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#13 Author of original report

Is Bart Baggett a fraud or liar? You decide!

AUTHOR: Gigi2467 - (United States of America)

In my opinion Bart Baggett STOLE my $$$ and then did not do what he promised. I have been asked to start this because I've heard that many others have been scammed by Bart and his sidekicks too. Help others by posting your opinions and personal experiences 100% ANONYMOUSLY... http://johnjonesjj55.blogs.experienceproject.com/9424.html#c like the people below!!!

Melissacatlvr: "I feel that I was also ripped off by him. When I Google'd him I thought he was a pro but I think he has money to afford to pay for people to keep his website on top of all the searches. When I asked him questions about handwriting samples he would get irritated and finally he said he was only basic-level trained. I feel he is teaching stuff he does not even know himself and several people told me that he has stolen material from other analysts."

AnimalLvr28: "I feel that I was also ripped off by Bart. I was told they paid my AIS but then they told me they did not and I had to pay it myself. At the NADE conference I was told they do not want anything to do with anyone who is associated with Bart."

KellyDeemon: "I was told he had an addiction to cocaine and sold it too despite pretending to be health-conscious."

JulieR983: "I was also told that his dad Curt is a fraud too and that he is being investigated for fraud in many states because he used fake notary public stamps for his cases. My opinion is to not trust anyone if you hear bad things about others. When I looked at his cheesy website it looks like a Primerica Infomercial all full of hype and false promises."

RobertL254: "Why would anyone waste time and money becoming certified by him? What a cheesy name HANDWRITING UNIVERSITY is. Think about it - would you be proud to have a cheesy name like that on your wall. Sounds like it came from a Cracker Jack box."

DJK: "He refused to provide me with a refund of my handwriting course even though he has a 100% iron clad money back guarantee.  He says he has a disclaimer in there that says unless you are in default of any payments but I cannot find it anywhere!" 

LLC: "A former follower of Barts bought this site because he was UPSET BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE A STALKER he said something like, I am famous and all famous people have stalkers and was MAD that he had not had one yet! So this former student of his tried to make a joke for him and put STALKS of celery on it but Bart became VERY irrate. The site is or was http://www.bartwantsastalker.com/". 

A complaint from the "Texas Women in Law Enforcement" conference in Texas stated that Bart's cohort, Don, gave a presentation and was VERY unethical. Apparently they ended up kicking him out of the conference and did NOT let him finish. He was calling people nyphomaniacs and then trying to sexually come-on to a female officer !! Even worse - Don bragged about working and learning from Bart!!" 

Bart's father, Curt Baggett, may be so unethical that his opinions are thrown out of court and not allowed back in... http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4937378,00.html.

Another former student stated that Bart apparently steals other analysts materials. Case in point: Kathi McKnight, another analyst, wrote openly to the Yahoo group that there were "differences" about intellectual property. Bart took her "Tips" (similar name), published them in HIS e-mails and on his website and then COPYRIGHTED them to HIS Handwriting University. He is now selling them!! 

Peggy Walla, Don Lehew, Curt Baggett, and Bart Baggett ALL stated the John Karr killed Jon Benet - in fact they all laughed at their going on national tv shows stating Karr did it. Where were all the "credible" analysts ? Remember Bart stated SCOTT PETERSON was innocent too - live on Court TV. THESE people are rediculous! http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4934911,00.html  

NO credible analyst would EVER analyze someone (especially UNfavorably) and post the results AND the persons name, address, etc. online. Bart did - http://handwritinguniversity.com/newslettersamples/jim.html  

We heard that a police officer in Oklahoma went to a class at the community college that was taught by a former student of Barts. She said, "the lady at the votech the other day was a farse and ridiculous and she had been through Bart's course. She was not recommending him either... then out of the other side of her mouth she was all about her certification. I thought how can you feel fully trained and respectful of your own work when you know your training is BOGUS. She told us that Bart called her and asked her to get all of the local news station to get her saying that John Karr was the killer of Jon Benet but she said she did not do it. She was an embarrassment to a scientific field that I use professionally".

Another analyst and former student of Barts said: "we heard the feds are planning on filing an injunction and fraud charges against Bart and his school but they are still in business even though not many students are signing up. Rumor has it, that he's been building up the India side of the business but I think the Feds or whomever is doing the fraud investigation are still looking for more evidence".  

Another student says: "The questioned document class was a sham! I remember Curt saying that "you ALWAYS rule on the side of your client". He did not teach us about what to do on a live case or how to determine our opinions. He did go over techniques during the audio class, but that really is not enough when you get your first case, it is only good enough for practice. Many students needed guidance through their first few cases and he NEVER guided us. In fact he ONLY agreed with whatever the students said (most of what we said were guesses) and NOT challenge us on how or why we arrived at that decision. The classes were more of a social network for their SEXUAL selections. I really felt like the whole point in being at their conference was for their opportunity to size us all up. Bart actually "landed" a student and then referred to her as his girlfriend. The seminars that we have gone to were horrible and FULL of sexual connotations. When they analyzed our handwriting, they always used something sexual in the analysis. They would say things OUTLOUD about whosever writing they were talking about like, "you don't like lights on during sex", or "you get naked alone - never in front of anyone" or "you like to be on top" or "you like to take control in the bedroom", etc...  And of Course Bart and his tomato shirt that he wears almost all the time and his faggish presentations (meaning he acts like he is gay for the comic effect and then says, "But I am not gay"), like a sex driven, stand up comedian, teaching people how to be an expert witness in a court of law, something that neither Baggett respects. Curts FAMOUS phrase for us to say when asked a question we didn't know how to answer to, was to say, "I DON"T KNOW!"  

Another former student says: "Bart mixes the handwriting analysis and combines it with NLP and uses that to his advantage. His handwriting materials include Handwriting Analysis Secrets of Love, Sex, and Relationships (also titled: Secrets to Making Love Happen - Mastering Your Relationships Using Handwriting Analysis & NLP) oh - but he calls it the "Relationship" book".

Several handwriting analysts (all former students of Barts) stated: He has filed 53 charges of racketeering against us under the Rico statute... you know like what the government charged Al Capone with? All charges are bogus and he has nothing to substantiate his claims. It is mostly because we left his school and claims that we are working together to steal his students (really his 'money' I'm sure). It is Curt and Bart, AKA: Bart and Handwriting Services International. Curt cannot sue because he's been deemed a vicious litigant so he can NOT file any more suits because that is how they both make money.  

Another analyst stated, Both Curt and Bart have stated worldwide that they were trained by Dr. Ray Walker. However I have documents to prove that they were NEVER trained by ANYONE and definitely NOT Dr. Ray Walker. It is a sad thing to ride off the coat tails of a dead man.  

Bart was supposed to have his own Reality Show called Barts Forensic Adventures but the producer, Kitty C. Stuart, maybe realized he was UNTRAINED and cancelled it. Here is the view of it seems comedy may be best for him because as a handwriting expert he is NOT qualified !!   http://www.kittystuartproductions.com/bart256k-stream.shtml
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