Bank One, Chase, JP Morgan Extortionate Unfair Insufficent Funds Fees Ripoff Chicago Illinois

"It's easy to throw a worst case senario out there and call it standard practice, but surely even you can admit that at every stage of that analogy, there was another option that would have yielded more positive results."

You're exaclty right, Douglas. At every stage of that analysis, Bank One could have had a policy in place that minimized, rather than maximized overdraft fees.

For example, in the first overdraft, BO could have put the checks through individually so as to produce only one overdraft fee. Instead, they put them through collectively, thereby producing three (or was it four?) charges.

Later, where the customer deposited enough to cover the original deficiencies, BO could have stopped assessing "extended overdraft fees." Even before that, BO could have called to inform the customer that the account was overdrawn and that, if he didn't deposit X$ today, he would be hit with an "extended overdraft fee."

Your view of what constitutes a scam is completely polar to the vast consensus. A scam that only works on foolish people is still a scam, even if it could have been avoided.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say that businesses need to go to gret lengths to assure that everyone is getting a great deal, especially where doing so involves "educating" the consumer. But, when a business sets its policy in such a way that the fool and his money will DEFINITELY soon part ways, there is a scam no matter how you look at it.

Also, the purpose of the RoR is not merely to provide advice. Its also a means of putting pressure on companies like Bank One to change their ways. It's like the "teach a man to fish thing": teach a man how to resolve his problem and you will have done him a service. Rid the world of the problem and you do us all a service.

Never in my post did I state that the fees implemented by banks for overdraft were not a rip-off. Of course they are.

But last I checked, this site was for more than people just looking to complain, it was for folks who discovered a rip-off and needed advice as to how best procede while at the same time being able to educate other consumers...

It's obvious though that Johanna does not want to entertain any possible solutions...then she wouldn't be able to complain. (hence her complaint on the casual tone of my post) Sorry to offend, I'll do my best to use everyone's full name at all times and please, Johanna, feel free to correct my spelling, punctuation and grammar where ever necessary...geez

As I read your analogy Timothy, I agree that some folks probably do get put through the ringer as you describe and of course its unjust, but there are a couple things I'd like you to consider.

What about the fact that this ball can only start rolling after a consumer makes a mistake in their accounting?

I feel that's an important detail in identifing a true rip-off. IMO, a true rip-off is one that takes advantage of anyone, even if there was no error on their part and/or a reasonable amount of prior research was done. For example: all those poor folks whose mortgages were sold to other unreliable companies who then lost payments that the consumer made on time....

Another point to consider in your analogy is that all the fees continue to climb due to the consumer making assumptions about their current balance. There is no mention of these balances being verified with a teller or CSR. Contact with the bank is essential, wouldn't you agree? Surely, some allowance for customer service to try and address the issue before things get out of control should be considered?

It's easy to throw a worst case senario out there and call it standard practice, but surely even you can admit that at every stage of that analogy, there was another option that would have yielded more positive results.

In conclusion and for the record...

YES, I feel most of these fees are unjust.
YES, I feel banks who pray upon lower income consumers should be dealt with swiftly and harshly
YES, I also feel that is fair for banks to charge a fee to people who go over their balance...you can't expect banks to it everything for free and if you do, then use only cash and stuff your money in your mattress. Shouldn't consumers also be held accountable for their actions? This "I'm poor so I went over my limit but since I'm poor I shouldn't have to pay for it" crap is getting old fast...
YES, i feel that people who are here only to complain are here for the wrong reason. If you need advice or want to warn others, fine, but just to gripe is a waste of time...go to a chat room...

I used to work for Bank One up until a year ago and I used to have these problems myself. And with my personal experience, they are not willing to help employees either. And yes, I take full responsibility for the overdraft, but cut me some slack, ya know? Everybody makes mistakes and everybody deserves a break. When I used to work in the branches we were told, "we can only reverse charges if it is a bank error." I went to the branch in the Bank One building where I worked once to discuss / dispute an overdraft fee or two that I incurred. I was told since I was an employee, that I needed to have my manager contact the branch's DISTRICT manager in regards to having my fee reversed!!!! Can you believe that??? Needless to say, I don't work there anymore, I didn't agree with anything that company did and left after 6 1/2 years, right before the merger. They are getting too big for their own good... My advice to you.....Johanna...you are in the military, you are eligible to join USAA, an awesome company that is only for the military & has military banking and will not treat you like this! Goodluck!

I thoroughly agree with Timothy. Just because "everyone's doing it" doesn't make it right. Also, Douglas, I have a name, and it is not "lady". Please try to show some respect when addressing consumers who have valid complaints, even if you do not agree with them. Also, I did not jump down his throat, just gave him my feelings on Bank One's overdraft fee policy, which is what this board is here for us to do.

Anyhow, my whole point is: when you are at risk of being charged an extortionate fee for being $2 overdrawn, you have a right to be told this verbally when opening your account. Especially if you show up in person at a bank branch to do so.

Very Respectfully,

So let me get this straight, since it's a widespread ripoff, it's not a ripoff? We aren't allowed to complain about a particular business' unethical activities because the problem is industry-wide? What kind of ethical system is that? Not to pull out too extreme of an analogy, but isn't that the very attitude that made Hitler so powerful?

The way I see it, this is a way to fund competitive interest rates for big ticket customers at the expense of the poor.

Look, overdraft fees are an acceptable part of banking life. TO A POINT. But when the bank has its policy SO stacked against the customer that a situation like that described above is an inevitability, to the point that it's an important part of the business plan, something is wrong. Overdraft fees should be avoided, both by the customer and the bank. If Bank One really gave a rat's a*s about its customers, it would try to limit the potential for overdrafts. Instead, it has a policy that maximizes overdraft fees to the pouint of absurdity.

And I don't care if every bank does it. Each one is individually culpable and deserves individual attention for this shameless patent ripoff.

Consider the following situation:

You think your account has $100 in it, but it actually only has $95. You forgot to plug that McDonald's lunch, purchased on a debit card, into your ledger. You write four checks, totalling $96. Your account is overdrawn by $1. The next morning you realize your error and deposit $50. Unbeknownst to you, you have been assessed $120 in overdraft fees (actually, this happens AFTER your deposit). Yup, $120. Even though only one check actually overdrew your account, you are charged OD fees for every check that came through that day.

Here's where it gets great. Since your $50 deposit, which more than covered your overdraft and what you thought would be one $30 fee, didn't take you out of the negative, you are hit with another $60 five days later. Now, you think your account is at positive $19, but it is actually at negative $131. On day six you deposit $100, and write four checks totalling $90. Whoops! you were in the negative, four more overdrafts. Now you are at negative $311, where you thought you were at positive $29.

If you can't see the pure evil in that hypothetical, maybe you need to read it again. the long and short is that overdraft fees are a huge cash cow for Bank One, by virtue of anti-consumer policies that ENSURE a high volume of overdrafts, and that's not right.

So let me get this straight, since it's a widespread ripoff, it's not a ripoff? We aren't allowed to complain about a particular business' unethical activities because the problem is industry-wide? What kind of ethical system is that? Not to pull out too extreme of an analogy, but isn't that the very attitude that made Hitler so powerful?

The way I see it, this is a way to fund competitive interest rates for big ticket customers at the expense of the poor.

Look, overdraft fees are an acceptable part of banking life. TO A POINT. But when the bank has its policy SO stacked against the customer that a situation like that described above is an inevitability, to the point that it's an important part of the business plan, something is wrong. Overdraft fees should be avoided, both by the customer and the bank. If Bank One really gave a rat's a*s about its customers, it would try to limit the potential for overdrafts. Instead, it has a policy that maximizes overdraft fees to the pouint of absurdity.

And I don't care if every bank does it. Each one is individually culpable and deserves individual attention for this shameless patent ripoff.

Consider the following situation:

You think your account has $100 in it, but it actually only has $95. You forgot to plug that McDonald's lunch, purchased on a debit card, into your ledger. You write four checks, totalling $96. Your account is overdrawn by $1. The next morning you realize your error and deposit $50. Unbeknownst to you, you have been assessed $120 in overdraft fees (actually, this happens AFTER your deposit). Yup, $120. Even though only one check actually overdrew your account, you are charged OD fees for every check that came through that day.

Here's where it gets great. Since your $50 deposit, which more than covered your overdraft and what you thought would be one $30 fee, didn't take you out of the negative, you are hit with another $60 five days later. Now, you think your account is at positive $19, but it is actually at negative $131. On day six you deposit $100, and write four checks totalling $90. Whoops! you were in the negative, four more overdrafts. Now you are at negative $311, where you thought you were at positive $29.

If you can't see the pure evil in that hypothetical, maybe you need to read it again. the long and short is that overdraft fees are a huge cash cow for Bank One, by virtue of anti-consumer policies that ENSURE a high volume of overdrafts, and that's not right.

So let me get this straight, since it's a widespread ripoff, it's not a ripoff? We aren't allowed to complain about a particular business' unethical activities because the problem is industry-wide? What kind of ethical system is that? Not to pull out too extreme of an analogy, but isn't that the very attitude that made Hitler so powerful?

The way I see it, this is a way to fund competitive interest rates for big ticket customers at the expense of the poor.

Look, overdraft fees are an acceptable part of banking life. TO A POINT. But when the bank has its policy SO stacked against the customer that a situation like that described above is an inevitability, to the point that it's an important part of the business plan, something is wrong. Overdraft fees should be avoided, both by the customer and the bank. If Bank One really gave a rat's a*s about its customers, it would try to limit the potential for overdrafts. Instead, it has a policy that maximizes overdraft fees to the pouint of absurdity.

And I don't care if every bank does it. Each one is individually culpable and deserves individual attention for this shameless patent ripoff.

Consider the following situation:

You think your account has $100 in it, but it actually only has $95. You forgot to plug that McDonald's lunch, purchased on a debit card, into your ledger. You write four checks, totalling $96. Your account is overdrawn by $1. The next morning you realize your error and deposit $50. Unbeknownst to you, you have been assessed $120 in overdraft fees (actually, this happens AFTER your deposit). Yup, $120. Even though only one check actually overdrew your account, you are charged OD fees for every check that came through that day.

Here's where it gets great. Since your $50 deposit, which more than covered your overdraft and what you thought would be one $30 fee, didn't take you out of the negative, you are hit with another $60 five days later. Now, you think your account is at positive $19, but it is actually at negative $131. On day six you deposit $100, and write four checks totalling $90. Whoops! you were in the negative, four more overdrafts. Now you are at negative $311, where you thought you were at positive $29.

If you can't see the pure evil in that hypothetical, maybe you need to read it again. the long and short is that overdraft fees are a huge cash cow for Bank One, by virtue of anti-consumer policies that ENSURE a high volume of overdrafts, and that's not right.

So let me get this straight, since it's a widespread ripoff, it's not a ripoff? We aren't allowed to complain about a particular business' unethical activities because the problem is industry-wide? What kind of ethical system is that? Not to pull out too extreme of an analogy, but isn't that the very attitude that made Hitler so powerful?

The way I see it, this is a way to fund competitive interest rates for big ticket customers at the expense of the poor.

Look, overdraft fees are an acceptable part of banking life. TO A POINT. But when the bank has its policy SO stacked against the customer that a situation like that described above is an inevitability, to the point that it's an important part of the business plan, something is wrong. Overdraft fees should be avoided, both by the customer and the bank. If Bank One really gave a rat's a*s about its customers, it would try to limit the potential for overdrafts. Instead, it has a policy that maximizes overdraft fees to the pouint of absurdity.

And I don't care if every bank does it. Each one is individually culpable and deserves individual attention for this shameless patent ripoff.

Consider the following situation:

You think your account has $100 in it, but it actually only has $95. You forgot to plug that McDonald's lunch, purchased on a debit card, into your ledger. You write four checks, totalling $96. Your account is overdrawn by $1. The next morning you realize your error and deposit $50. Unbeknownst to you, you have been assessed $120 in overdraft fees (actually, this happens AFTER your deposit). Yup, $120. Even though only one check actually overdrew your account, you are charged OD fees for every check that came through that day.

Here's where it gets great. Since your $50 deposit, which more than covered your overdraft and what you thought would be one $30 fee, didn't take you out of the negative, you are hit with another $60 five days later. Now, you think your account is at positive $19, but it is actually at negative $131. On day six you deposit $100, and write four checks totalling $90. Whoops! you were in the negative, four more overdrafts. Now you are at negative $311, where you thought you were at positive $29.

If you can't see the pure evil in that hypothetical, maybe you need to read it again. the long and short is that overdraft fees are a huge cash cow for Bank One, by virtue of anti-consumer policies that ENSURE a high volume of overdrafts, and that's not right.

We don't tell you about these fees up front? Every financial institution is required by law to give you your rules and regulations at the time you open your account and the fee schedule is in their, does anyone ever read them, of course not. A bank is a business and if you slip up, they will be there to collect on your mistake but don't think we're the only ones doing this. Every bank has a very similar fee system to ours.

Why did you jump down his throat for his post? The poor guy simply gave some advice in a very neutral tone and was attempting to help. Oh, I see, because he works for a bank. That must mean he is the enemy whether he tries to help or not, right? I hate to be the one to tell ya lady, but ALL banks do this. You find a bank with over 10,000 customers and I'll show you a rip-off report...

As to his advice. Frankly, it seems like a great idea and I'm going to try it next time I'm counting pennies. Just want to remember to be careful about getting hit with interest on the monthly purchases, so want to avoid doing it all the time. I think if it is only done when my checking account balance is near the danger zone then I know I will save myself overdraft fees. Heck, worst case, will only get one right?

We all know about the unfair policies of banks and their bogus overdraft fees, so you're singing to the choir on that one. If you really came here for help or advice (IMO the PURPOSE of this site) then consider everyone's advice whether you use it or not...don't rip someone who was only trying to help...makes me wonder why you didn't get anywhere with the customer service reps...

If you get these calls "all the time", that should tell you that this is a PROBLEM to your consumers. These are people who trust JP Morgan with their money. I understand that it's easy to get jaded when you hear the same comments time and time again, but these are your CUSTOMERS talking. I think that if a bank is going to take an excessive amount of money from their customers, they deserve to know up front what that amount is. Maybe then we can spare you the annoyance of customer calls.

I am an employee in one of the customer service centers of Bank One so naturally I hear these calls very frequently. The only thing I can add to help understand this is that the overdraft fees are applied the day after the account is overdrawn, so if you have 5 items overdraw one night, your account is negative $50 and you make a deposit the next day, your deposit posts first, then the overdrafts are applied possibly causing you to go into the negative again. Do they do this to make you more likely to overdraw again? I really don't know, the way all big banks are today it wouldn't surprise me but a good way to avoid this is to limit your transactions through your checking account because if there is ever a problem you can't control( like not getting a paycheck for 3 weeks), you won't get hit for $30 for every item that goes through. I charge everything I can to a credit card and make 1 payment to it through my checking account, you know exactly how much you have and pay what you can.