WANTED -LDS Man- for assault at Mormon Temple ..Mesa Police cover-up *REBUTTAL

Ok, first off I know EXACTLY why Christ turned the money changers out of the temple. It was because they were practicing the art of priestcraft; or in other words making money by claiming to act in God's name; aka they were ripping people off for their sacrificial animals. Worship is not about money. So they were desecrating the temple. The people who protest Mormons also protest gays; it is true. They protest any group that is different because THEY GET PAID TO DO IT! I guess they forgot to tell you that in their little "story" huh? These are the same people who hold signs that say, "God hates fags." at funerals for victims of AIDS. They are paid protestors, just as ancient Egypt had paid mourners.

Secondly, no it wouldn't be allowed if it were a n**i, and the man wouldn't be punished when he attacked him because it would be called what it was... a hate crime. It wasn't right for him to attack, but people are people, and can only take so much.


Third, you cannot call the police to take care of this because when Mormons are harassed it is called freedom of speech for their oppressors. When Jews are harassed it is called what it is... a hate crime. There is a double standard at place where our church is concerned.

I don't really care what you feel Christ would or wouldn't do; because anyone who would condone protesting a person's beliefs doesn't know Christ anyway. I will ferociously protect your right to teach your children any beliefs you want, or no beliefs at all. They are your children, not mine. And you will continue to turn your back on my children's rights, because that is what you do.

In case it is lost on someone, I am a Latter Day Saint. And I do not condone this sort of
violence, nor should a Jew or a Catholic
confronted with trash talk at his place of
worship. Calling the Police, in Mesa, is a
waste of time, if the "suspect" is LDS...and it
is not a "Mormon" thing, save from the point
of view, perhaps, of the police.

Mesa Police--and I lived there for years--regard the Temple as some kind of special
venue, and do not do much in the way
of actual risk-taking or law enforcement.
They are more involved in revenue raising
and graft. Oh, yes, in Mesa an LDS member
in good standing, or with a Temple Recommend,
will get very special treatment, but that is
about all Mesa P.D. does is sort out the
corrupt.

I am deeply ashamed of this town, and of
the nasty nature of a great many of its
entrenched power structure. It has become
very ugly over the last thirty years or so,
physically, too, especially just east of
downtown, and also near Country Club, but the
ugliness of the Police and City Administration
and the open corruption is far, far worse.

It is fair to oppose radicals of another
religious belief, or no religious belief, and
to ask them to leave, even force them to
leave (without violence, preferably), but it
is far wiser to simply ignore them. This
is at once a Christian matter and a
Constitutional matter of free speech.

My experience of many long years is that
Mesa is mainly a hotbed of drug activity,
encouraged by an incompetent and cowardly
police structure and city administration,
and religion, the constitution, and free
speech are NEVER even mentioned by the
"big wheels" in the town. Shame on them!

I've never known the "Christian Ethic" to support the beating of anyone. I'm a self defense instructor and I find the example you set for you children to be offensive. You need to re-read the bible. Even though I don't subcribe to organized religion in my adult life, my family raised me in the church and your behavior is unexcusable. In response to the above, even if it was a n**i in front of a synagauge violence does not solve the problem. Call the police next time or next time you may find yourself facing someone that can beat your a*s. How would you like your kids to see that?

Zamiel...

I wish to pose this question to you and anyone else who stands by your statement. I hope you answer this question (in writing) in this forum because I'm curious to know your honest answer.

If this situation took place in a synagogue and the man were a n**i holding a large swastika while yelling allegations to the children of jewish parents, defameing their religious beliefs, would you post your same response on this forum and publicly denounce the act of a jewish father who punched the n**i protestor who demonstrated week after week?

Zamiel - Grand Rapids, Michigan

Dear Zamiel,

I agree with you in that whoever this person is they need to go to jail for assault. I, myself am a believer (In Christ Jesus), and have had people protest at my church before. However, I did not and would not have assaulted them.

Why? Out side of the fact that A) they have the right to express their opinion, and B) assault is a crime the fact is that that person is my neighbor. No, I doubt that he lives next to me, but in the broad since he is a fellow American, and a fellow human bean. This means for me, as a believer, that I must treat him in the way Jesus taught. {Matthew 5: 4348}

You say in your letter You have the right to worship an imaginary being. I was wandering how you came to the conclusion that a being worthy of our worship dos not exists? Now, you have the right to not believe in God. Im just saying, why are you calling the Being I have put my faith and trust in imaginary? As if I should wake up and stop believing in Him.

Lets turn the table for a second. If I said that you have the right to imagine that you could get by with out God. Would you not be offended?

I am not trying to be critical here; Im just suggesting that you take into account other peoples feelings, and right of belief when you write.

By the way, I would be interested in how you came to the conclusion that there is no God, if in fact, that is what you are implying in you comments.


Emily - Wichita, Kansas
U.S.A.

Dear Emily,

All though it is true that Jesus turned over the money chargers tables in the temple, that is not cause to hurt people because they harasses you. Please hear me out.

Jesus was pointing out hypocrisy in the Temple (Church building). Even though our gut re-actions to people who accuse us, whether falsely or justly, is anger and resentment, as believers we should always strive to respond in Love.

If we hate those who hate us, how are we different from the world? Jesus said But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven
(Matt 5:44-45 KJV)

I have only one thing to say to you, Emily- You have the right to worship an imaginary being, and I have the right to stand in public and tell you that you're an idiot for doing so.

Nobody has the right to physically assault someone else because of a difference in ideology. I certainly hope this guy gets caught in a non-Mormon city some day, because in civilized society, you go to jail for beating up someone who is only expressing their opinion.

This Sunday I am going to stand in front of your church and tell your children that your beliefs are garbage and that you lie to them.

I am going to tell them all sorts of sick things like that you have multiple wives, entire other families, because maybe your ancestors come from a country that practices that, even though you don't.

I am going to tell them that your religion is a cult. I am going to tell them lots of fun rumors, like that you hate minorities and cook and eat their babies. I am going to tell them that you worship a graven image, how about the cross, the instrument of Christ's death because you hate Jesus. Then I will tell them that you don't even believe in Jesus, you just say you do. Them I am going to tell them that they are going to burn forever in hell. Because they don't belong to the church I think they should.

Do you like that? Neither do we. We go to the temple to worship. We don't like hate mongers screaming these things at our children.

Where does your right to bad mouth us to anyone, and our right to raise our children by our faith begin?

We don't go to your churchs and worship places and do these things? Why do you do them to us?

I wanted to punch out protesters at a circus I took my children to because they were following me down the sidewalk telling my young children that I hate the earth and animals because I was taking them to a circus... for the first time in their young lives. I was mad enough to do it too.

They are my children... I will raise them in my beliefs... as you raise your children in yours. I fully believe you can defend your family in whatever means you deem necessary. I am sorry my Brother in the church attacked the man protesting. But I do not blame him... did not Christ himself turn the moneychangers out of his temple?

Saw a little note from Mesa P.D. on my way
into a Fry's Supermarket today, basically
warning people to abide by the law and
they wouldn't be bothered.

What a joke!

Does someone REALLY believe these jerks have
something to do with order, peace, or law enfocement????

Reminds me of a few years back when the
looneys who run this asylum changed the July
4th Celebration because it inconveniently
fell on a Sunday.

Seperation of Church and State? Not in Mesa!!

Law and the truth? In Mesa, they're opposites.

NEVER BELIEVE ANYTHING THESE BASTARDS SAY!!!

Not all mormons are such idiots. The guy is an a*s, and he does not represent us. Unfortunatley there is always someone being stupid. In front of the temple no less...what a moron.

Sorry.

Consider the following:

Mesa police are:
(1. honest
(2. brave
(3. straightfoward
(4. incorruptible
(5. represent a valid cross-section
of the community
(6. need more personnel

If you believe any or all of these, please deposit one billion dollars in small, circulated bills into a paper bag and send them to me.

I have a bridge in Brooklyn you could own.

Ok, Robert is crazy. He has been assaulted many times, and not just by Mormons. I have yelled at
him myself when his bicycle and clumsy cross cut in front of my car. But he is not a maggot, and he really does have the hearts and souls of others in what is left of his mind when he harangues you. He was genuinely trying to save your soul.

Why bother to respond to "unbelievers"? A verbal discussion, even an argument, is one thing. Violence is quite another.

We are all sure Mesa P.D. will under no wise or case arrest or even detain a devout Mormon, and we are also aware that their cowardice and criminality is such that they do no actual "law enforcement"...

If they were fictional, we would all laugh and call them "The gang that couldn't even shoot crooked"... Their long litany of criminal conduct would fill many books, one of which I myself shall soon write. They are so deep into what amounts to organized crime that they are not even worthy of first-class contempt.

Who cares if two religious loons fight each other in the streets? I do. And if other religious loons cover it up, who cares? I do. We live in a lawless community, where crack and ecstasy are sold mere yards from Mesa P.D.'s "hangouts" and headquarters, and yet this department pretends to be involved in law enforcement.

This whole community is a fraud. Mormons? They're fine. If they are legitimate and lawful.
But here, we mostly associate them with a simpler term: LIAR.

From:

Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 13:42:50 -0700



WANTED -LDS Man- for assault at Mormon Temple ..Mesa Police cover-up

(#5045)



They filed the following rebuttal to the above Rip-Off Report:



Their email: angel_4_you_az@yahoo.com

Their name: A true "believer"



Rebuttal:

I think that this whole thing is very ironic. You are supposed to be a worshiper, and this is the way that you treat others who also worship.



I think that you have problems with other individuals that do not follow the LDS religion. If this is the kind of foolish thinking that the LDS church is instilling in the minds of it's followers, I am d**n proud not to belong.



I have never heard of so much hate coming from a "believer". Sir, you are a very judgmental individual and that is certainly not what the church, of any denomination, would teach its' followers.