Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engine Sales FAILED 20R ENGINE REBUILD FROM **** Beaverton Oregon

Hi I am the manger at Japanese Auto Service and Import Engine Sales. I have been working here for about 11 years and have many customers that know us and refer customers to us. I know that Doyle had already got his money back for his repair since Doyle called me and asked me to give his truck to some one esle that bought his truck. I know that his engine was not bad but unforutanlty Doyle had miss understanding about the rebuild we did.

When a customer brings his or her car in for an engine replacment we ask that they read an agreemnt and sign it before we touch the car. The agreement said that we are rebuild the engine head and block not including the external parts attached to the engine. In another words we only replace the internal engine parts and reuse the exteranl parts if some thing is abviously broken then we ask the customer if he or she willing to replace it since there is no labor involved only parts.

In doyle's case his truck is 1980 I think and he had many issues with his external parts since they are old and they do not last for ever. Doyle kept complaining about his engine rebuild just because we rebuilt his engine but not understanding that is not our fault its his old engine parts around the engine that are bad. Doyle is asking that we should refund the money to his friend and I do not see why. Doyle sold the vehicle since it has brand new engine it just needs attention to the external parts it worked just fine. Please take this report off from our company profile.

We have received your most recent correspondence in the above mentioned complaint case.
You have indicated that you are NOT satisfied with the business' response in the matter.
However, in the judgment of the Better Business Bureau (BBB), the business has responded by addressing the disputed issues and making reasonable efforts to resolve the complaint. Therefore, the BBB is unable to require the business to respond further to your complaint.

A summary of this complaint case can be seen by clicking http://www.thebbb.org/complaintconsumer.html?cid=22083910&auth=jkd11x or at www.thebbb.org by clicking Access a Complaint. Your Case ID is 22083910, your Password is jkd11x.

Sincerely,
Better Business Bureau
Alaska, Oregon & Western Washington
Complaint Department

*This e-mail address is not a monitored account, please do not respond to this e-mail. If you need to contact us about your complaint, please e-mail us at complaints@thebbb.org.


Posted at Toyota Nation Forums under the Pre - 1988 Trucks
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...31#post1360731

20R REBUILD FROM HELL
HELP!
I finally got my 1980 Toyota Truck 2WD Standard 5 spd 20R No AC/No Power
Steering back from the rebuild shop last week, and nothing seems right about it.
First of all they failed to inform me until the day the rebuild was complete that they
put my old exhaust manifold back on. (the manifold with a severe crack that leaked)
And they monkeyed that back onto the block.
Second, a decent Hedman Header which was on the floorboard of my truck was
never returned, they pawned some other one off on me when I complained and stated
they were sure it was the same one. (it is not)
Third item of contention is how they managed to cobble up reassembly of my
carburetor.
They had the idle way high, all I did to lower it was to back the low idle screw out a
partial turn. Furthermore the interlock between the auto-choke and throttle was not
re-connected.
Fourth, and MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL!!!
The truck smells to High Heaven of oil whenever I accelerate hard on the freeway or
in City traffic. The exhaust blows Blue Smoke all the time.
Department of Environmental Quality refused to even test the truck for emissions.
AUTOMATIC FAILURE because of smoking from the tailpipe.
HELP! Please...
OH! And did I mention that the Rocker Arm is banging against the top of the back of
the Valve Cover above Cylinder #4. The mechanic's explanation was that to back off
the Valve Cover bolt to stop the clattering would then allow the oil to leak from the
back of the valve cover. This same mechanic went on to describe something about
adjusting the valves loose... I have no idea what the hell that means.
Every time I asked about an interval to bring the truck back in for re-torqueing of
the Cylinder Head Bolts I get blank stares from the mechanics and front office folks
at this rebuild shop. Is it not true that there is a short interval after a rebuild when
the cylinder head bolts and other torque settings should be checked?
Furthermore, whenever I accelerate hard the engine makes a very sickening
clattering sound as if something is very loose under the valve cover. The same kind
of upper end engine noise you might hear when the push rods have wallowed out the
guides!
Every time I drive the truck I get sick to my stomach from the smell of oil.
And I get especially sick when I think of how a Fly-By-Night Outfit ripped off my
friends and I for $2450.00 on this complete REBUILD FROM HELL!
Is the Blue Smoke a sign that the rebuild shop did not get the rebuild done correctly?
I took it in to them and paid $25.00 for the oil change they said I have to do with
them to maintain the one-year-engine-warranty. When I mentioned the Blue Smoke
they said this is why they had to change the oil. Does this make sense to anyone?
Now I will freely admit to being an amateur mechanic, and a shade-tree one at that!
I have owned and maintained many a beater-mobile in my lifetime.
There should be no smoke coming from the tailpipe of a rebuilt engine!
At least I don't believe there should be. Right?
Help...
Thanks for any advise you could lend me folks.
Have a great day.
I do not believe these folks are a reputable engine rebuild shop as they are
representing themselves to be.
I cannot see where I will benefit by having them rebuild my truck engine again under
their warranty agreement. The unecessarily long period of time out of service the
last time around is more than I can deal with again. Furthermore I have no reason to
believe that Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales knows what they are
doing when it comes to engine rebuilds.
The settlement I am seeking is either a full refund of my monies or the coverage of
my substantial expenses that will be required to have a reputable shop do this
rebuild correctly, and to cover the expenses of a rental car until said work is
completed.
************************************************** ***********
Part Deux; 20R REBUILD FROM HELL!

I have a question about my 20R rebuild situation.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/t149216.html


I did a compression test today, after I had to buy an 18? breaker bar to get the #4 plug out. They used an air wrench to put the plugs in and smashed the compression washers down to about a 1/3 of their original size, and on #3 Plug they split the ceramic insulator down both sides and bent the terminal end about 12 degrees.

Here are the results using Craftsman, not Mac, or Bluepoint, or Snapon, etc.
The wet tests were done with a teaspoon or so of 20-50 motor oil squirted into spark plug hole.
I ran each series of tests 3 times to be sure I was getting a good average of the results

Number One Cylinder DRY 190# __ WET 200#
Number Two Cylinder DRY 185# __ WET 190#
Number Three Cylinder DRY 182# __ WET 199#
Number Four Cylinder DRY 150# __ WET 160#


Sure seems to me like they did not get my rebuild done correctly.
Especially with all the noise coming from the valve and/or lifter on number 4 cylinder.

***AND OF COURSE IT IS STILL SPEWING BLUE SMOKE ANY TIME YOU ACCELERATE***


Please advise.

Thanks,



Doyle

On August 21, 2006, the business provided the following information:
Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales
18960 SW Shaw Street
Beaverton, OR 97007
Phone (503)356-8055
August 18th 2006
RE: Case # 22083910
Dear Doyle Thibert,
First of all I want to apologize about not responding to your complaint sooner but I
was sick for about two weeks.
We give 30 days labor warranty for customers to try their vehicles after an engine is
replaced so that they can try it and if there is some thing wrong then we fixes it at no
charge. You know you have a truck that is very hard to get parts for. We had the
truck here for a long time since we were waiting for parts coming from every where
through out the states.
When you brought the truck in you brought an exhaust manifold that you wanted us
to replace it for you. We informed you that it was not correct so we told you that we
might have a used one. After waiting for a long time we got all the engine parts and
got it rebuild and installed it. When were ready to install the manifold we had we
found out it was not either. Then we called every where about a manifold no body
had it only the dealer and it was bout 500 dollars so we thought 1980 truck and $500
manifold will be too much so reused the same manifold to get the truck out of the
way since we had more cars to work on. We explained that to you and you said you
will take care of it. We are only responsible for the internal engine parts not any
external and the manifold is external part.
I understand that one of the mechanics called you when they saw the complaint and
you did not want to talk to him. Frankly, we do not appreciate you are saying bad
things about our hard work its 1980 very hard to get parts and if it was internal part
frailer we are totally responsible but it is your part that is bad and if you want to pay
the parts I will do the labor for free even though it is not our problem and every
noted by writing.
Please feel free to contact us for any help that we can do for you.
Fada

Response
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************************************************** *****************
Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales
18960 SW Shaw Street
Beaverton, OR 97007
Phone: 503.356-8055
Monday, August 28, 2006
RE: BBB Complaint No. 22083910
Dear Fada:
Thank you for your reply to our Better Business Bureau complaint.
Please allow me to get directly to the point.
Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales has consistently failed to address the
?failed engine rebuild? on my 1980 Toyota truck in a business like and timely
manner.
My good friends have had to put out even more money to have this ?failed engine
rebuild? diagnosed by a reputable engine rebuild shop. And additionally have
purchased another 1980 Toyota truck to take the place my original truck.
This shop was able to determine that:
1.The camshaft follower lobe for intake on cylinder #4 was improperly ground and
has a clearance exceeding manufacturer's specifications i.e., .023 of an inch.
2.Your mechanic/s tightened the valve train excessively to adjust for this faulty part
and caused the valve clearances to be out of adjustment and therefore causing the
blue smoking from the vehicle exhaust tailpipe.
3.Your mechanic/s also had the vehicle engine timing set somewhere around 15
degrees , when the Toyota factory manual clearly indicates the settings for engine
timing is 8 degrees BTDC Before Top Dead Center.
I was able to determine on my own with some very simple mechanical tools that:
1.All 4 of the engine spark plugs had been put in with an air wrench, splitting both
sides of the #3 spark plug ceramic insulator. I had to purchase an 18? breaker bar
just to remove #4 spark plug!
2.The compression for #4 cylinder was way off, over 30 pounds difference from the
other cylinders.
3.I could also tell the timing was way off too, but was not certain why my timing light
was giving me this indication. I did not want to try adjusting the engine timing since I
felt it may be dangerous to correct the engine timing to 8 degrees BTDC if the other
settings i.e., valve adjustments were not set correctly.
4.I could physically see that the interlock between the primary throttle bore and the
carburetor's air horn auto-choke and butterfly valve were not properly re-connected
after engine reassembly.
5.And the horrible metal on metal clattering of the valve train against the valve
cover. I am actually suffering from some severe hearing loss myself, but this is hard
to miss, as loud as it is. And there is no way that any part or portion of the valve
train should be hitting the valve cover.
6.The smell of fresh oil poured on an engine block anytime you accelerate hard in
city traffic or accelerate out on the freeway, along with all of the smells and poisons
from a leaking exhaust manifold.
If I remember correctly, Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales represents
itself as a specialist in rebuilding/replacing Japanese Engines. Al stated to me that
Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales was a specialist with 20R and 22R
engines and that working on my truck would not be a problem. He also stated that
Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales had lots of crate engines on hand or
readily available and that we could go that route if necessary. When I asked Al
whether or not a 22R engine would fit into my truck or if I would be better off to just
skip the rebuild and get a crated 20R Engine, Al told me I would be better off with
the rebuild. Al also indicated that it should be no problem to get my truck repaired
very quickly, perhaps 3 to 6 days. I specifically asked Al to be sure to replace the
exhaust manifold as I knew it had a severe crack in it. Al stated that he could
probably replace the exhaust manifold for around $100.00. I also asked Al to please
let me know if trading out to a 22R would be a better alternative for my truck. Al was
also told that the truck had been severely overheated several times in the 3 weeks I
had owned it and that the last incident had been very severe, with the truck engine
vapor locking on back pressure and compression gases and turning over on its own
even without the ignition key on. I had to tow the truck in from approx. 19 miles
away because I could not be sure the truck would make it to Japanese Auto Service
& Import Engine Sales without seizing up on the way there. Al called me approx. 3
weeks into the rebuild to indicate that the cylinder head would have to be replaced
because it was bent. Al stated that he would not have this delay in the rebuild if he
had known the truck had been severely overheated. I told him this is why I had the
truck towed in from only 19 miles away. He argued that this was not the case, that I
had driven the truck in. I am not sure why he would argue this point as the tow truck
offloaded my Toyota truck directly in front of his office window and I had to take
time out from the business transaction with Al to address the tow truck driver and to
direct the tow truck driver where to offload the truck, as per Al's instructions. Al
also insisted that the cylinder head would be an additional $417.00 charge to me and
since I did not really feel I had a choice at this point, I agreed to the additional
charges.
At this juncture I would like to address the very short phone conversation I had with
Al on August 10th, 2006 at approx. 4:44 p.m. He had called me on my cell phone and
reached me at the InFocus Corporation company parking lot where I was having my
truck towed from Wilsonville back to my place in SE Portland. The first thing that Al
said was that I was out of warranty coverage since I had not brought the truck in
within the first 5 days to complain of the rebuild problems. I was very angry to hear
this and asked why he was going nickel and dime me on this ?failed engine rebuild?.
Al said ?well if you would have read the small print, you would know this?. He also
asked why I had gone to the Better Business Bureau with this, and I stated that I did
not feel Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales was a reputable company to
deal with, that their work was very shoddy, and that when I had come in for the oil
change as required by your engine warranty a week after the rebuild and asked
about the blue smoke I was told this is why the oil was being changed. Basically at
this point I was around a very loud tow truck and not in a mood to talk with Al. I told
him that I did not have anything nice to say, and that our conversation was over and
I hung up my phone.
The failure of Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales to get this engine
rebuild done correctly the first time around, and the subsequent failure of Japanese
Auto Service & Import Engine Sales to address my concerns in a business like and
more importantly in a timely fashion have cost my friends and I dearly, very dearly.
Because of the ?failed engine rebuild? from Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine
Sales and all the blue smoke coming from the engine tail pipe, Oregon DEQ Clean
Air Station testing would not even test my truck so that I could address getting this
adjusted for a DEQ pass and Oregon License Plate Tags so that I could drive to and
from work. I not only lost the last 6 weeks of wages at a decent paying temporary job
assignment, I also lost 3 weeks severance pay that I would have received for
completing the assignment and I lost my sales commissions for the 4th quarter.
Furthermore, because of the expectation set by Japanese Auto Service & Import
Engine Sales that this engine rebuild would take approx. 3 to 6 days, my friends
rented another vehicle for them to drive and allowed me to borrow their car during
this period. When Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales (purported to be a
specialist with 20R and 22R engines) was still unable to complete this rebuild for yet
another month, I was forced to borrow my friends' car, leaving them without
transportation. Finally when they could no longer loan me their car because of
pressing medical appointments, I then had to resign my position with InFocus
Corporation in Wilsonville, OR because of having no transportation nearly 5 weeks
later.
In concluding this response to your Better Business Bureau answer to my original
complaint, I would like to state that you did not really address the main issue which
is that Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales failed on this engine rebuild!
I am requesting that you operate in good faith and in the spirit of good customer
service by honoring the following very reasonable requests.
1.Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales should fully refund all the charges
made to my friends credit card for your ?failed engine rebuild?.
2.Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales should reimburse my friends for all
additional costs related to diagnosis of the ?failed engine rebuild? and additional
costs related to replacement of the faulty camshaft and related labor costs to have a
reputable engine rebuild shop complete this work for us.
Sincerely,
Doyle B Thibert
7445 SE Henderson Street
Portland, OR 97206-7959
503-989-9983
doyle@thibert.com


September 21, 2006


I want my friends, Larry and Sherral Allen to be refunded the money they were charged on their credit card, believing that Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales was a reputable company to deal with. It is as simple as that. Why would you think I am going to trust you to fix up the hack job you did on rebuilding my truck engine? Why?

Please understand that all I am asking for here is for you to realize that you did not get this engine rebuild done correctly. You willfully mis-adjusted internal engine parts to make up for faulty machine work. You denied any problem exists. You do shoddy work. And you change your story each time you respond to me.

At no time have you simply admitted failure and offered to refund my friends money.
This is what we want. This is what we should receive for your failure to provide services as charged, for your failure to acknowledge there were problems, for your failure to follow up with good customer service, for your failure to follow up in a timely manner.

Sincerely,

Doyle B Thibert
Larry H Allen
Sherral Allen
Chad Mitchell

7445 SE Henderson Street
Portland, OR 97206-7959
503-777-2169

Japanese Auto Service & Import Engine Sales
18960 SW Shaw Street
Beaverton, OR 97007
Phone (503) 356-8055
Fax (503) 848-2256

Re: Case # 22083910


Dear Doyle Thibert

I received your complaint but what I do not understand why you did not bring the car in for us to check it out. Why would I be inclined to bring the truck in for you to check out the engine when on at least 2 occasions previously your mechanics have stated that there was nothing wrong with the truck and that it was perfectly normal for the truck to be blowing blue smoke after an engine rebuild? Your mechanics did not leave me with the impression that they are either knowledgeable or honest about their mechanical workmanship. You have 30 days labor warranty I do not believe the engine has that many problems that you mentioned if that is the case why do I have so many satisfied customer about our rebuilt engines especially 22R/20R we can rebuild them while our eyes are closed. Then it should not have taken 5 weeks for you to complete this engine rebuild, right? We treat every customer the same no matter what kind of vehicle they have, we have an agreement in writing and you sign it before we touched your car. The agreement mentioned that when you pick up your truck after the job is done you need to watch the vehicle for the first 30 days in case some seals do not get sealed because they are new or valves need to be adjusted. Also you were told verbally and in writing that after you drive the truck for 5 days or 200 miles you need to bring it in to us so that we can check it and do an oil flush. Instead you did not even call us to tell us to tell us you have problem nor you came back for the oil change you just want money back. This is incorrect information! I called and spoke with Fada a few days after receiving my truck and asked if it would make a difference if I had approx. 280 miles on the truck when I brought it in on the following Monday, July 31st, 2006. Fada told me this would be just fine, no appointment is needed, see you on Monday. I have the receipt for payment of $25.00 to show that I came in on Monday the 31st of July, 2006 to have the truck oil changed and to have the truck checked. I will also produce for the court, copies of my email from work where I had to ask to get off work early on July 31st, 2006. I can also provide for the court if needed, recordings of my conversation with Fada about bringing the truck in for this checkup and oil change. You see, I was employed in a technical support call center and all calls are recorded for legal purposes. While this oil was being changed (took about 10, maybe 15 minutes) I asked Al why the truck would be blowing blue smoke when it is accelerated and he told me this is why Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engine Sales was changing the oil. At no time during this oil change was the engine checked by your mechanics. I even asked Al again about why the valve train was knocking against the valve cover and the answer he gave did not make any sense to me. It was after this engine oil change and supposed checkup that the Oregon DEQ Clean Air Station in Clackamas refused to even check my truck for emissions because of the blue smoke coming from the tailpipe when I accelerated At this point I decided to do some engine checkups of my own and this is when I found the #3 spark plug insulator split because your mechanics used an air wrench to sock the spark plugs in. I even had to purchase separately a ?breaker bar? so I could remove the #4 spark plug. I removed the plugs to perform a compression test which also confirmed the problems over number four cylinder. You did not even pay with your own money or credit card you brought a friend to pay for you even though we do no accept credit cards from non customers we still did not make it hard for you. I took every proof from you and your friend for the credit card payment. I requested an agreement between both of you since I found the transaction being suspicious even before you picked up the truck. Why would Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engine Sales be so suspicious of me having a friend help out in a time of need? Larry Allen and other members of his family were present during this transaction. We all live in the same house. I was not trying to deceive you in any way! I think you are a good story teller. I am only relating to the Better Business Bureau, and anyone else who may have the power to assist me, the story of what an incredible ?pain in the backside? it has been to try getting any customer service at all from Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engine Sales. I have been in the business over 10 years I have never heard from any customer that he/ she had problems as much as you stated. We understand parts could be defective or small things go wrong and that is why you have warranty for one year on the engine and 30 days on labor for you to try the vehicle and let us know how it is.

In conclusion if you just found out your truck is not worth the money you spent then it is not right for you to make us loose all the money we spent please bring the truck in for us to check the engine and if we have to we can even install another engine for you even though I do not believe that the truck has that many problems When this engine was rebuilt the camshaft was completely out of tolerance (the cam lobes had been improperly ground and this was confirmed for me by another engine rebuild shop) and Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engine Sales tried to compensate for the faulty part by willfully over adjusting the valve clearances, thus the noise and the racket, and improper valve closure and timing issues, and the blue smoke. The other engine rebuild shop properly adjusted the valves and the engine timing and Voila! No blue smoke and no clattering of the valve train against the valve cover. And after this adjustment the truck was able to pass Oregon DEQ. You can still hear suspect noise from the #4 cylinder because of the cam follower lobe be ground down too far. What this truck engine needs is another camshaft (properly ground) and properly installed and adjusted. This is not something that I could ever trust Japanese Auto Repair and Import Engine Sales to do correctly. They not only adjusted the valves incorrectly to make up for a faulty mechanical part, they denied any problems with the rebuild. the only problem you should have is your manifold and you should know about that and yes the manifold could make problems like smoking and loud noise from it
I did take a 5/8?diameter by 3 foot in length wooden dowel and by cupping my hand around my ear and one end of the dowel was able to place the other end onto the top of the various valve sections of the cylinder head and valve cover while the truck was running and you could definitely tell something was in bad shape on cylinder number 4 valve train because the mechanical metal-on-metal noise was extremely loud. and you know that you refused to pay for new manifold since it was around 500 dollars It is not true that only the dealer carries the exhaust manifolds for these trucks and Japanese Auto Repair and Import Engine Sales knows this. I would have asked my friends to assist me with the additional money for an exhaust manifold replacement, even at the $500 pricing, except that Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engines Sales only informed me of their inability to locate a manifold better than mine at the last minute. and only the dealer has it. BULLSHIT! On the day I picked up the truck I challenged Al with Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engine Sales on this and to humor me I guess, he called Baxter Auto Parts in Hillsboro and they priced him an exhaust manifold for $135.00. you informed us that you will take care of that we just did the engine part of it and not every thing around the engine. Our engine represents the cost of head and block only look at your agreement please.

Please feel free to call us and I will even pay for towing if you need it just for us to get an opportunity to look at the engine because rebuilt engine involves many shops like the machine shop work and the head place and the engine internal parts. So we have to find out what is the problem so we can correct our mistakes if there are any. You are expecting me to give you money for some thing we did not even check yet.
Why should I trust Japanese Auto Repair & Import Engine Sales to check their own shoddy workmanship? Would you? Would the Better Business Bureau want to have its fleet of cars and trucks maintained by a business that willfully misadjusted internal engine parts to make up for bad parts tolerances to the point of causing an engine to smoke and fail the Oregon DEQ test (actually to be failed without the test/DEQ would not even test the truck because of the blue smoke from the tailpipe) and to constantly clatter with a metal ?on- metal sound, and to constantly blow blue smoke any time you accelerate the engine? Well? Would you really trust a business like this to fix its own failures? I have plenty of customer service experience and I know when people just want to get money YOU BET! You bet I want my friends to have their money refunded for this 20R Engine Rebuild From Hell! and I know there are a lot that want to get good relation ship with good mechanics so that they will be safe driving their vehicle and depend on us for all their safety issues and the mechanical portion of it. It is not the end of the world if it is true you have problems you have nothing to loose we will the engine at no cost to you if it is related to our labor or parts.

I am also including letter from some of our customers that are very satisfied with our work to show you that we really take care of our customers very well.


Sincerely,
The manager
__________