Larry H. Miller Used Car Supermarket Salvage Vehicle Orem Utah

May 23, 2013.  We sold our car and needed a replacement.  Larry H. Miller was having a big tent sale for Memorial Day.  We went to look.  The first thing the salesman asked was what we wanted.  It was leather and captain's chairs in a Yukon XL or a Suburban.  We test drove the 2007 Yukon XL.  We liked it because it had brand new tires and low miles.  We didn’t like it because we wanted leather and captain’s chairs.  When we got back we were told someone else had purchased it.  So we went out again and drove a Suburban that was way out of our price range.  When we returned we were informed that the financing had been denied for the buyer of the Yukon. 

We felt pressure that this was a hot vehicle.  We wanted leather and captain’s chairs but were told they couldn’t be interchanged.  We were stuck with what it had.  We went ahead because of the great miles.  We needed to attend our daughter's program so we left and came back later that evening.  Our salesman, Shaun Wride, was nowhere to be found.  So we went ahead with signing the papers without him.  We never saw a Carfax for this vehicle.  We saw many floating around that day for other cars.  We saw one in the Suburban that we drove.  We didn’t think twice about asking for one.  We thought that a big dealership like Larry H. Miller wouldn’t deal with salvaged or total loss cars.  We figured someone who had test driven the car had mistakenly taken it with them.

Our first time to the pump was a surprise.  The pump clicked off every gallon or less.  We tried twisting the pump, slowing the flow, different gas stations, etc.  In August 2013 we had the oil changed and inquired about the gas tank.  They told us what part is was but they would have to order the part and check the warranty.  We never heard back.  I tried calling three times.  I made an appointment on February 19, 2014 for an oil change and a check on the gas tank again.  This time they found nothing wrong.  It was at a Lexus dealership so I took it to the Chevy dealership in Provo.  They too found nothing wrong.  They did find a bulletin that stated this is a common problem and it isn’t a problem with the car, it is a problem with the gas stations.  We tried many different ones.  We even made a trip to Canada and back and had problems at every single pump.  The service manager told me we would just have to live with the problem or trade it in. 

So just curious I asked how much they would give me for it.  The salesman, Mark, went the check and came back upset.  He asked if we had been told that this was a total loss car.  We had not.  I was quite upset but he reassured me that Chris Carter at the other dealership in Orem would take care of us.  We were able to talk to Chris Carter on February 21, 2014.  He looked at a couple of reports and reassured us that Carfax had the error.  He said it happens often.  He told us since it was our car now, we needed to fix the error with Carfax. 

So my correspondence with Carfax started.  Within a couple of days, we were told that there indeed had been a total loss due to fire on May 14, 2012.  The record was displayed on the history report of Carfax on February 25, 2013.  So the report we would have seen at the dealership would have also shown this total loss. The Carfax report shows that Larry H. Miller bought the car April 11, 2013, which is also after the reporting date.  I was also able to find the total loss reported with the National Insurance Crime Bureau.  Still unsure of who was correct, I found one more vehicle history report that also showed the total loss and stated, “This vehicle has appeared in a salvage yard or at a salvage auction. “  It listed the auto auction that reported this (IAA Westchester, IL).  In researching their website, typing in our vin number, I was able to find photos of our vehicle and the fire damage reported as a total loss by Geico. It stated that there was interior and exterior burn.  This was never mentioned by the Larry H. Miller salesmen.  A total loss vehicle, even having been repaired, should be listed at a lower price.  It is not in the perfect undamaged condition.  If we were told of this damage, we would not have purchased the vehicle.

I filed a complaint with the Motor Vehicle Enforcement Department.  They were quick to research and return a phone call.  Unfortunately, since the title wasn't branded, LHM legally had no obligation to disclose the total loss.  The investigating officer told me he wished it was law.  He sees many cases of this and an increase in the number of complaints. 

We consulted a lawyer.  He sent a letter to Larry H. Miller Used Car Supermarket in Orem in May 2014.  He gave them a month to respond.  They did not.  We didn't hear back from our lawyer until we contacted him in November.  He told us he was willing to write up a lawsuit.  It would drag on and after legal fees we might not be better off. 

We decided to try one more time just talking to the manager.  When we went in on November 7, 2014, we were informed that Christ Carter had a brain tumor recently removed.  So we spoke with Bruce.  He listened, looked at some reports and claimed they knew nothing of the total loss.  Again tried to push off that it was a mistake.  As soon as I tried to explain that I had proof, he tried to talk his way around it.  He claimed they didn't report it before they bought it, accidents happen all the time, Carfax is in error and it took them so long to report it.  So he told us he wanted to make the deal fair for both of us and offered us Manheim's high book value-$17,000.  He became irritated and short with us. We weren't satisfied with this.  We felt we were owed more than this.  We paid (with fees and taxes) $27,467.50.  We understand that we have driven it over the last 18 months.  So it is fair to be offered less, but over $10,000 less seems unfair.  He told us to contact his manager, Travis.

My husband contacted Travis.  He also told us that millions of cars, like 60%, on the road have been in accidents.  What he wouldn't accept was that this was claimed as a total loss, due to fire, not a fender bender.  He told us he would have to get back to us since it was Friday.  He told us that this time of year, the cars tend to be booked lower than usual.  He promised us that he would give us $1,000 to $1,500 more than the reported Manheim value.  He also wanted to make sure we were happy and said he would offer us an additional $500, employee pricing benefit.  So we figured we would get $17,000 (what Bruce had shown us on the computer) plus $1,500 to $2,000 for a total of $18,500 to $19,000.  This was still a loss for us.  We figured to be done with the totaled car and to be done with the managers at Larry H. Miller, we would settle.  Monday he called with the numbers.  He offered $18,000.  No more.  He wouldn't listen to us reminding him of his promise.  He wouldn't listen to wanting to add money for  value, extras such as low miles, Bose sound system, hitch, entertainment system, sunroof, or roof rack. He cut my husband off repeatedly.  He would only do $18,000. Period.

Our concern was that the vehicle isn't in the original condition.  What other damage did the fire cause?  Is it the cause of the fuel filling problem?  What started the fire?  Will it start again?  If we were to keep the vehicle and wanted to sell it later, our integrity would not allow us to keep our mouths shut.  We would disclose.  We would lose money on the sale.  Our vehicle is worth half the price.  So we decided to take the $18,000 for the Yukon.