#1 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Jana - Marion (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, July 21, 2005
POSTED: Thursday, July 21, 2005
Hi there. I can definitely sense your frustration. I'm currently pursuing a doctoral degree in higher education administration, and while some of your concerns are valid, some are true of any higher education institution.
In all institutions, accreditation is only reviewed every few years--not annually. Accreditation is easy to lose, especially in online or other nontraditional programs. And advance notice of accreditation visits is always the case at all institutions.
Tution increases are always the case, at all institutions. The average nationally is around 4% per year. Yes, costs of operation to increase yearly, so the inflation is not merely for increased revenue.
I'm also confused why someone who has worked in higher education (and thus is probably educated) would use a phrase like "you tards" and other grammatical errors.
Overall, valid concerns with several areas--advisors paid on commission, unpaid overtime wages, etc. But some of your points could be helped with additional research.
#2 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Terri - Montgomery (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, July 23, 2005
POSTED: Saturday, July 23, 2005
My husband and I are going through hell with these people. He is going for his Bachelor of Science in Business/Management. Are you telling me it will be worth nothing to employers? Thanks! Mrs Max
#3 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Lloyd - Belmont (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 27, 2005
POSTED: Wednesday, July 27, 2005
I hear that major corporations and fortune 500 companies do not recognize degrees from the UOP. I personally have not been able to make my UOP Bachelors in Management degree work for me. I ended up having to go for a masters from another school that had a lot more clout.
#4 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 27, 2005
POSTED: Wednesday, July 27, 2005
I understand that you and your husband are going through hell. I worked there so I know what youare dealing with. Yes, the degree is a "degree". However, it is not recognized as being legit by many people inside the industry. if you plan on using the degree to advance your career, you better hope the people you are interviewing with wen to UOP or they will not consider your degree valid. Look at it this way. UOP is the Ford Pinto of education. Yes, the Pinto was a car and yes you could drive it. However, do a cost benefit analysis. The BS degree at UOP is $1475 per course. At 40 courses to complete a degree you are spending upwards of $50,000. Would you pay $50K for a Pinto?
Transfer now. Go to Walden Univeristy, Strayer University, or Capella. They all have great online programs and do not try and bankrupt you.
Good luck
#5 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 27, 2005
POSTED: Wednesday, July 27, 2005
Obviously you did not get my point when I said save your fingers on pointing out the corrections that my entry needed. I did not edit it before submission. If you are telling me you type everything out perfect the first time you are full of it.
With regards to your statement about "easy to lose accreditation", you are simply wrong. If it was easy, they would have already lost it. They have had multiple instances where the HLC has required them to make changes to their programs in order to keep their HCL affiliation. The problem with UOP is that they are a CASH COW! A billion dollar liquid surplus is a nice cushion to fall on when you are constantly lobbying and fighting legal battles to keep your business on top.
With regards to your statement about inflation, some estimates are 3% while others say 4%. Regardless, tuition increases at most universities reflect the expense involved with operating the courses themselves. When you look at the profit margins by which UOP opperates, you would know that $1475 for a bachelors course, with an annual or bi-annual increase of 6-7% is not needed and is driven by greed. The courses, including the cost of paying employees, setting up the course and paying the instructor, is 1/2 the cost of the class. This means they operate on a nearly 50% profit margin. You mention that operating costs increase annually, this is true at most businesses. However,lets look at something like cost of labor. Most organizations provide an annual 3% cost of living increase, thus resulting in a higher operating cost for the organization. UOP does not do this. UOP's starting salary for EA's has been static for 15 years. No increase. Infact, they are now in the process of reducing the pay of over 60% of the workforce (EA's) by 10% every 6 months and calling it performance based. If they are not having trouble hitting their budgets for shareholders, why are they increasing prices, and decreasing operating costs?
Yes I work in the education field and yes I am educated. Even if I was ignorant, my time with the organization and the level I had reached internally allows me to know things that you simply do not know. In that alone with regards to UOP, I know more than you do. And Yes, I think people who point out other peoples typos to feel superior are "tards".
#6 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Steve - Tempe (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, November 15, 2005
POSTED: Tuesday, November 15, 2005
didn't you work for Debt Free before that? If this is you...why did you prank call that company after you quit? LOL Hope all is well and glad to see people fighting that evil empire/ "sweat house" shack house. What a joke. Everyone who goes over there high on life believing that is the job to work...ends up furious and drained after working there. Very sad. Oh, lets not forget Miss "O"ndrea Watkins.....the ultimate recruiter! Lady now does hiring there. She worked other jobs and actually recruited people on those jobs to go to UOP!! Wow..solicitation at its finest! And the woman got paid for the referrals!! Can you say the UOP Draft?? LOL
#7
AUTHOR: Leeland - El Paso (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, November 25, 2005
POSTED: Friday, November 25, 2005
My report on the UOP is probably the one read the most.
Certainly one working for the University of Phoenix would be in denial. However, one must consider that a 3 hour course is 45 hours of instruction. The university of Phoenix at 20 hours of instruction is 20/15 or 1 and 1/3 credits.
Believe what you may, but Phoenix cannot be accredited, if you believe it is you shall see soon that the hours you have spent in this instution have been wasted.
Actually Phonenix being 100 hours short of an associates degree is proof positive that Phoenix is simply not accredited.
Phoenix at 800 hours of instruction, when it should be 1800 hours of instruction (40 units of 120 hours x 20 hours at Phoenix) is a rip off.
Say what you may being a worker for Phoenix, but indeed you may be held criminally liable for knowingly and willingly ripping off students in this degree mill scam.
I still have litigation against Phoenix, and I intend to Prevail. Your University of Phoenix took in 2.1 billion dollars in Title IV student aid dollars this year. Please! - this is more money appropriated than that appropriated in any state in the United States.
Form a different angle, Money not Appropriated to Congress is appropriated to the states. Do you really believe that Phoenix is constitutionally correct? Suppose you do? I'll pray for you! The rapture is near folks!
#8 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Pap - Indianapolis (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
POSTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
While you got a Few of the names correct, this does not prove that he knows what he is talking about, since the Names CAN be found when doing a search of the internet.
Since UOP's Accredidation is with the North Central Association, which is the SAME Accredidation Body who Accredits Harvard, Yale, Purdue and University of Chicago, as well as Every other Accrediated College or University in the United States, as well as Many other countries in North, Central and South America, his BELIEF that UOP is not accrediated, or that their accredidation is some how Faulty, is B.O.G.U.S. and among the Greatest Fantasy's I have ever encountered.
If you do not believe this, then you can go to the USDept. of Educations Website, type in "University of Phoenix" in the Search Line, click "Search" and it will List Every one of UOP's Ground campuses PLUS the Online Campus, Click ANY of those Links and it will tell you who they are Accresited with. The North Central Association and the National League of Nursing Accredidting Comission. THOSE are 2 of the TOP Accrediting Bodies this Planet Has.
Here is the Link to the US Dept. of Education Search
http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.asp
Also, your Supposition that they pay per enrollee is so far OUT OF WACK that it is not even Funny.
Anyone who has ANY Concept of the Reality of Business, KNOWS that you are REQUIRED to live up to a Certain set of Standards and to Work to a certain set of Goals. THAT is waht the Matrix is Based upon, that and NOTHING MORE. you get regular Reviews and if you don't live up to those goals, you do NOT get an Increase in pay, if you do you do get an increase in pay.
"B's" suppositions tell me that he/she DID NOT live up to those goals, and so they got Pissed off and left over it.
I am sure that those at UOP-Online are GLAD you are gone, so they can get their work done in Peace without your Moaning and Whining.
Do EVERYONE a favor, and Grow Up and realize that you are NOT going to get anywhere in life until you can take RESPONSIBILITY for your OWN Actions and Not Blame everyone else cause you cannot Live up to YOUR Responsibilities and cannot Live Up to your WORD.
Until you can do that, you will get NO WHERE in life.
You are the Definition of a Disgruntled Ex-Employee.
MY MBA is Recognized for what it is, AN MBA, with a 3.95 GPA.
You probably ended up with Less than a 2.0GPA, didn't you?
The ONLY Ignorant comment in those who defend UOP are that they have not Slammed you for the Sniviling Little Crybaby that you have proven yourself to be.
GROW UP and Take Responsibility for your own actions, or Lack thereof.
#9 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Pap - Indianapolis (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
POSTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
SIMPLY go to the United States Dept. of Education website:
http://ope.ed.gov/accreditation/Search.asp
Type in University of Phoenix, Click "Search at the bottom of the page, Then click ANY one of the Campuses, and you WILL see that their Accreditation is NO LESS than Harvard, Yale, Princeton, NYU, UCLA, U of Texas, Purdue, or ANY of the Other Large Institutions in this or ANY OTHER Country.
#10
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
POSTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
If you would have read my item you would notice that I did not argue about their association with HLC or NCA for their accreditation.
However, if you actually research accreditation, (try the UOP campus database mr 3.98 GPA which I might point out is nothing spectacular at UOPO), you will learn that colleges that do not require a GMAT or GRE are missing a certain accrediting body and that DOES mean something! Ill let youi figure it out.
As for your assumptions about me and the organization. Again, you are on the outside looking in. Yes, they did pay EA's based off the number of enrollments they did but had to change that practice after catching heat from the DOE. You see, they had a bunch of people take advantage of the their old matrix for pay scale. I was one of them who was extremely successful.
The problem was that they cannot pay on commission so once you achieve a certain level of pay, their matrix did not allow for any increases. People settled in and did the normal amount of work because their was nothing to motivate. They changed their whole business concept after the investigations and lawsuits. Cheap labor became the goal.
So while I may of touched a nerve with you, you are none the less wrong about the organization and your assumptions about me. I have often noticed that people who do not know what they are talking about resort to insults. I would have assumed that have your special degree and HIGH GPA!!! would have afforded you a better approach to a discussion. I guess we were both worng for assuming.
And queue angry retort from Pap in 3,2,1, action...
#11 Employee
AUTHOR: Pap - Indianapolis (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
POSTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
Everyone Do your Own Research of this information to see which of us is correct.
This will Prove that "B" is nothing but a LIAR and obviously a bit disgruntled since he obviously was a Less than Standard employee. If he wasn't he would not have gone to this extent of Whining.
Accreditation Statements
FAQs (in general)
Affiliations
Accreditation Statements
University of Phoenix is accredited by The Higher Learning Commission and is a member of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools.
30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 2400
Chicago, IL 60602
(312) 263-0456
www.ncahigherlearningcommission.org
The Bachelor of Science in Nursing and the Master of Science in Nursing programs are accredited by the National League for Nursing Accreditation Commission, Inc.
NLNAC
61 Broadway
New York, NY 10006
(212) 363-5555
www.nlnac.org
The Master of Counseling program in Community Counseling (in Phoenix and Tucson, Arizona) and the Master of Counseling program in Mental Health Counseling (in Utah) are accredited by the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs.
CACREP
5999 Stevenson Avenue
Alexandria, VA 22304
(703) 823-9800
www.counseling.org/cacrep
In British Columbia, the University of Phoenix was accredited by the Private Post-Secondary Education Commission (PPSEC) in 2002. That agency is now called the Private Career Training Institutions Agency (PCTIA).
PCTIA
1185 West Georgia Street, Suite 850
Vancouver, BC V6E 4E6
(604) 660-4400
www.pctia.bc.ca
FAQs
What is accreditation?
How is the University of Phoenix accredited?
What is regional accreditation?
What is national accreditation?
What is programmatic accreditation?
Why doesn't the University of Phoenix apply for more than one regional accreditation?
Other FAQs
AACSB
NLNAC
CACREP
What is accreditation?
Accreditation is a process of quality assurance and review that institutions participate in, generally on a voluntary basis. Accrediting "associations" are most often groups of like institutions whose purpose is to establish standards by which appropriate practice can be judged. Accreditation is a symbol of the quality of an institution's educational programs. Accreditation indicates both an institution's compliance with the standards held by accrediting bodies and the "reasonable grounds for believing it will continue to meet them.
How is the University of Phoenix accredited?
The University of Phoenix is accredited by The Higher Learning Commission (HLC) and is a member of the North Central Association. University of Phoenix was granted initial accreditation in 1978 and the accreditation was reaffirmed in 1982, 1987, 1992, 1997, and 2002. The next comprehensive evaluation visit by The Higher Learning Commission will be conducted in 2012.
What is regional accreditation?
Regional accreditation is an institutional-level accreditation status granted by one of six US regional accrediting bodies. According to the Higher Learning Commission, this type of accreditation evaluates the institution as a whole assessing "formal educational activity" as well as "governance and administration, financial stability, admissions and student personnel services, institutional resources, student academic achievement, institutional effectiveness and relationships with constituencies inside and outside the institution.
What is national accreditation?
National accreditation is granted to specialized institutions—technical schools, health or computer related institutions, for example—that offer at least an associate degree. The national accrediting bodies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education are:
Accrediting Association of Bible Colleges
Accrediting Bureau of Health Education Schools
Accrediting Commission for Career Schools/Colleges of Technology
Accrediting Council for Independent Colleges and Schools
Association of Advanced Rabbinical and Talmudic Schools
The Association of Theological Schools
Council on Occupational Education
Distance Education and Training Council
What is programmatic accreditation?
Often associated with professional organizations, programmatic or specialized accreditation applies to specific programs or coursework within an institution.
Why doesn't the University of Phoenix apply for more than one regional accreditation?
Accreditation by more than one regional accrediting body is not permitted by the US Department of Education. Regional accrediting bodies grant accreditation to an institution as a whole regardless of where it may operate, even locations that fall outside of a regional body's geographic scope. Additionally, the six regional accrediting bodies recognize each other's accreditations. Seeking additional regional accreditations is therefore unnecessary.
AACSB
What is AACSB International?
The Association for the Advancement of Collegiate Schools of Business International provides an additional level of "programmatic" accreditation for traditional business schools. Along with other activities, the organization promotes management education at traditional schools of business.
Is the University of Phoenix accredited by AACSB?
No. Since the missions of the University of Phoenix and AACSB differ, the University has never sought accreditation from AACSB. The University of Phoenix, however, is a member of AACSB and in that capacity shares in the exchange of ideas about creating quality business programs.
Does this mean the University of Phoenix is not accredited?
No. University of Phoenix, as an institution, is regionally accredited by the Higher Learning Commission (HLC), previously known as the "Commission on Institutions of Higher Education of the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (NCA)". HLC and the five other regional accrediting associations provide accreditation at the institutional level for colleges and universities across the US. However, the University of Phoenix has not sought the additional programmatic accreditation for its business programs since organizations like AACSB are designed to promote the characteristics of traditional business schools.
How does University of Phoenix differ from "traditional" business schools?
University of Phoenix is a teaching university with a highly focused mission: to serve the educational needs of working adults. The University's teaching/learning model is designed specifically to meet the needs of this population, whereas traditional business schools serve a traditional age group and place a greater focus on formal rather than action research. For this reason, AACSB's focus requires the large majority of faculty at institutions accredited by them be full-time professors with doctoral degrees. Conversely, our model requires a faculty member to be academically prepared at the doctoral or master's level, but additionally they must be practicing in their fields. This is a more appropriate model for a University whose primary focus is to serve working adult students who expect instructors to balance the teaching of theory with practical application.
Are there differences in the courses in the programs at AACSB-accredited business schools and non-traditional business schools like University of Phoenix?
Both groups offer similar courses, although there is variation among AACSB-accredited schools as well as non-traditional universities in the specific required courses. The University of Phoenix adheres to the suggested course content for AACSB accreditation, since it reflects generally accepted skills in the business profession.
Is there any disadvantage to a University of Phoenix graduate since the University is not accredited by AACSB?
No. Employers have not expressed a preference for business school accreditation. Regional accreditation, like that of the Higher Learning Commission, which accredits the University of Phoenix, is important for students seeking employer reimbursement and federal financial aid.
With respect to the academic issues, we believe our students greatly benefit from being taught by practitioner faculty who are experts in their field. This allows our students to integrate and apply the content knowledge to their chosen professions. By adhering to this model of instruction, the University of Phoenix is better served by not being accredited by AACSB.
NLNAC
What is NLNAC?
NLNAC is the National League for Nursing Accreditation Commission, Inc. NLNAC is recognized as a specialized accrediting body, which grants specialized accreditation to "nursing education schools and programs." For more information on the specific standards required to obtain NLNAC accreditation please visit www.nlnac.org.
Is the University of Phoenix accredited by NLNAC?
Yes. The Bachelor of Science in Nursing degree received programmatic accreditation in 1989 and the Master of Science in Nursing degree received programmatic accreditation in 1997.
CACREP
What is CACREP?
CACREP is the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs. CACREP is a specialized accrediting body formed as an affiliate of the American Counseling Association (ACA). CACREP grants specialized accreditation to "counselor education and related programs." For more information on the specific standards required to obtain CACREP accreditation please visit www.counseling.org.
Is the University of Phoenix accredited by CACREP?
Yes. The Master of Counseling program in Community Counseling offered at the Phoenix and Tucson campuses as well as the Master of Counseling program in Mental Health Counseling offered at the Utah Campus are accredited by the Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related educational Programs (CACREP, 5999 Stevenson Avenue, Alexandria, VA 22304: www.counseling.org/cacrep); 703-823-9800.
Affiliations
The University also maintains voluntary memberships with numerous educational organizations, including the American Council on Education, the Association of American Colleges, the American Association for Adult and Continuing Education, the American Association for Higher Education, the American Assembly of Collegiate Schools of Business, the Council for Adult and Experiential Learning, the College and University Personnel Association, the Arizona Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, the American Association of Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers, the Independent Colleges and Universities of Arizona, the American Association of Colleges of Nursing, the Western Institute of Nursing, the National Board for Certified Counselors, the National Association for Foreign Student Admissions: Association of International Educators, the National Association of Veterans Program Administrators, the Service Members Opportunity College, and Defense Activity for Non-Traditional Support. Additionally, the University maintains memberships in various professional, program-specific organizations.
#12
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
POSTED: Sunday, November 27, 2005
By the way Pap, since you seem so devine in your wisdom. You may want to look at who Harvard is accredited by. It is not the North Central Association. It is actually the NEA. There are a few different accrediting bodies based around region all under the HLC. Can you tell us why,(since you know so much) Arizona schools are accredited by the NCA when they are not actually in that region? (I can)
Also, since you know so much, why dont you contact UOPO and ask them if they have the AACSB accreditation. Here's a hint. Because the majority of their grad students could not pass the GMAT exam nor are they willing to take it.
As for your very insightful glipse into work ethic and the employees of an organization you know nothing about. Let me explain what happened at UOP during my time there. Now with that big brain of yours I would like you to try and revert back to your MBA program, specifically the Human Resouce Management class. Okay, do you have it? Good, you will need it in a moment.
As for your claim that UOP does not pay enrollment advisors based upon the number of people they enroll, well, all I can say is that you never worked there or you only started working there within the last year.
Here is a little glipse into the scenario I was in during my time there (and how I know all the names of people that work there). I started there in 2001. The performance matrix was based around a few different criteria. (Lead to contact ratio, lead to conversion ration, referrals, talk time, out bound calls, in bounds calls, attitude, and enrollments.) The old matrix, although abitrary, did not specifically state that you would be paid per enrollment. However, it did outline performance expectations based around tenure. What was not written, but was absolutely known, was the numbers a rep needed to hit to get a worth while raise.
Bottom line, the magic number was 100 enrollments in 6 months. It used to be 9 months before they changed the timeline. If you could hit 100 retained enrollments in 6 months, your pay would go from $28,000 to $50,000. Anthing above 100 was worth roughly $300 to $600 on top of that per enrollment. Very few reps actually hit 100 enrollments in 6 months. Most hit between 40-70 or about 6-8 per month. When the time frame was 9 months, 100+ enrollments would get you roughly $60 to $80K.
I was on the 6 month plan, my minimum expectations for my first 6 months was 30 enrollments. I did 42 and maxed out every other matrix criteria and received a $5K raise. In the next 6 months, I hit my stride. My expectations were 45 enrollments. I did 132 in 6 months. I recieved a raise of roughly $30K. Here is the flaw in their old matrix. Here is how know for a fact people were paid on enrollments. All those other catagories I mentioned that reps were reviewed on in the old Matrix, were not even considered on my review. In fact, all those areas on my review were much higher on my first review where I only received a $5K raise. It was made perfectly clear, that the number of enrollments I did was the reason I was paid so much. Here is the problem.
They had a matrix that was based upon tenure, not pay scale. So even though I made way more than other people who worked there, my expectations were actually lower. So they ended up having quite a few people there, about 1% of the workforce, making 2 to 3 times as much as the the other 99%(AE's only) In my next review period, because I had been there a year, my minimum expectations were between 50 and 60 enrollments in 6 months. This was fine. The problem was that outside competition (other colleges) was up and coming and UOP's overall numbers, including stock value, was droping. What was noticed was about a 20 to 30% decrease in enrollments accross the board. What this meant to the company, was that because they could not pay on commission, they had to do something else. It is what they did to their best employees and how they did it that I have a problem with.
Here is what happened in 2004. In mid year of 2004 UOP was slumping bad (check the lawsuits roughly 20M and stock rollback into Apollo Group to hide the damage) They let all the employees know that two major items were upcoming because of the lawsuits. First, all EA's would be move to hourly wages and second, the Matrix was being changed.
They had each division director (Mine was Aaron Wettstein) and division manager speak to their teams or roughly 10 to 16 EA's. We were informed that our expectations were going to be LOWERED to reflect the decrease in leads and hours worked. In another meeting, as the top rep on my team and top in the division, myself and about 15 other top EA's were informed that our new expectations would be 45 enrollments in 6 months starting in June which was a week away. Further, we would have no review for the last 6 monts period because no one was hitting their goals. Basically, were all had a clean slate and were expected to hit 45 enrollments by November. They even went as far as to have us sign a new compensation and expectations agreement stating that our expectations would be reduced by 20% for this review. So we went about our business.
I, like most of the top advisors were well on our way to meeting our 45 enrollmet expectations eventhough leads had been reduced dramatically. 3 months into the 6 months period, VP of enrollment called a company meeting where they revealed the actual Matrix. It was nothing like what they had us sign. In fact, the new matrix was based off of pay range. What this meant is that the highest paid EA's had exceedingly high expectations while the lowest paid reps had basically no expectations. I understand business and I agree with this move in principal. However, they made there expectations retro-active to June. What that meant is that the top reps now only had 3 months to make up the ground for their 6 month review. For my scenario my expectations on the new matrix for minimum enrollments went from 45, to 98 in 6 months. 3 months into my review, I was at 26. That gave me 3 months to enroll 72 people. Something that had never been done in the history of the company. The topper was that this matrix had a new clause. If a rep did not hit their goal, they would have their salary reduced by 10% each time.
Now lets go back to where I wanted you to remember your HR course. As you felt liberated enough to lecture me on how I will never be successful as an employee (you're right, as I own my own business now), lets see what you remember about employee management.
When November rolled around, nearly 90% of EA's had failed to hit their goals based off the new matrix. Why? Because the new matrix was written based around the enrollment numbers from 2001-2003, during the most profitable time frame of UOP. With leads at a minimum, no rep was able to come close to hitting their goals. The only reps that actually hit their goals were either new reps, or reps that had other reps quit on their teams and had those reps enrollments given to them.
They ended up reducing the salary of the vast majority of employees.
So captain MBA, lets look at this from a business standpoint. If you want to keep your workforce motivated do you: Increase performance expectations dramatically while reducing resources at the same time? Do you, ignore the law of deminishing returns and keep hiring people to work the same amount of leads? Do you, mislead employees about their expectations and then not give them a full 6 months to make up the different? Do you, allow and increase in dysfunction turnover to the point where you must resort to using temp agencies to keep seats filled because you cannot hire fast enough to compensate for the people quitting?
So, you can go on thinking that you know what you are talking about or simply conceed the point here and admit that you were not there and you cannot speak from experience.
I have the paperwork from all my reviews sitting here, I guess I could waste more of my life explaining myself to people like you, but I have wasted enough of my life on your kind trying to explain things to people that are incapable of admitting someone else knows more then them. I know its hard when you have a 3.98 GPA, but in this case, you are just wrong. Good try.
#13 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Rahul - Portland (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
POSTED: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
All this information is leading me to buy a degree from a paper mill.
#14 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Rahul - Portland (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, December 03, 2005
POSTED: Saturday, December 03, 2005
Visit this site, go to page two.
You'll get little bit more info on UOP.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/11/60minutes/main772913.shtml
I guess degree from a paper mill is real now days.
#15 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, December 04, 2005
POSTED: Sunday, December 04, 2005
The article link you included mentions the 9.8M that UOP had to pay because of their illegal enrollment practices. What it does not mention is the other 10M that UOP had to pay to the AZ Dep of Labor for failure to pay overtime wages to employees. These fines took place within the same year. The sad thing is that $20 million is in fines is a drop in the bucket for a billion dollar company (Apollo Grp).
When you examine their annual revenue over the last 10-15 years (multi millions), and the fact that a major portion of that money that has been generated stems directly from Title IV funding, it becomes apparent how UOP rose to power. If it was determined in 2004 that their enrollment practices were illegal and they were fined for it, that means that their enrollment practices have been illegal since they became elligible to use Title IV funding. So any revenue made, or any money/assets used as leverage for loans or venture capital was obtained through illegal means. To offer a relative example, a drug dealer who uses profits from illegal activities to invest in legal ventures, cannot keep those assets if it is found that those assets were obtained with illegal cashflow. With this in mind, it is obvious that UOP obtained profits through illegal methods, and was able to use that money to grow an empire. Simply put, over the last 15 years UOP robbed tax payers and students by illegal use of Title IV funding, and robbed its employees by refusing to pay overtime, built a billion dollar empire, and only received a slap on the wrist ($20 million in fines) for their actions. Welcome to all the worst aspect of corporate america.
#16 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Barbara - Chula Vista (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, December 20, 2005
POSTED: Tuesday, December 20, 2005
I do not why Mr. 3.98 is trying to defend University of Phoenix using info from their own website...I have several problems with UoP and so do the majority of people who go there.
Let's all go back to their recruiting tactics...I started there in July '04 was that before or after the lawsuit about paying the recruiters based on enrollment? It sure seems the guy that cornered me was paid per enrollment with no care for my needs. When I was conned into attending UoP I was told by Jason that every course would be $750 because of the military discount (yes they prey on the very people that fight for their freedom and their spouses, as well as single mothers), only to find out on my second course (what school would throw someone without a 100 or 200 level business course into a 300 level course but that is a whole seperate complaint)that I would have to pay $300 more for those. I was also told that if financial aid ran out as it often does in the first year I would be able to take a leave of absence because I could not afford the out of pocket expenses. Well when I went to request that leave of absense I was unenrolled and $1600+ of the loan was returned to the lender even though it had already been used to pay tuition leaving me in the collections department at the UoP. Another of the lies I was told is that my credits were transferrable to another university except for maybe a couple just because you can almost never transfer 100% of credits between schools...I made it clear that I wanted to transfer to University of San Diego, a prestigious Catholic university for the last 30 units of my degree. Well not only are they not transferable to USD (not a single one) they are not transferable to any university in Southern California not even to Capella which is also a non-traditional school. The school I just registered at told me that with the math I might be able to get out of the math placement exam so I don't have to take remedial math and I can go right into a 100 level course.
Once I was in school it was horrible...some of the student were so stupid...actually the majority. Horrible grammar...no common sense...they couldn't even appropriately use a computer.I only went there because I needed a flexible schedule...most of these people went there because they couldn't get accepted anywhere else. On several occasions I found myself completing team projects alone because the others were to stupid to do their part right...but they were all cool because they had a 3.8...3.9...or 4.0 GPA. There are no requirements for admission except for paying the ridiculously high tuition...that should have clued me in, but I try to look for the positive in things all the time.
My academic advisor has changed so much it is crazy...and they do not keep contact in the form of email as I have requested on several occasions. It is alway a phone call...and they never call you when you need them to actually help you with something. I have reason to believe that they actually posted for me in my last course so I would owe the money...mind you the course I was enrolled in after I requested a couple of weeks off in between courses because my husband had just come home from the middle east, but I am trying to figure out how to prove that.
I am sure there is more but I am tired. I am sending in the money they say I owe only because I don't want my credit ruined. My attorney suggested I do it with a check and on the check reference a letter that I would attach stating everything so I know they got it when they cash the check. He says there is a good chance of winning at least a settlement...as long a I can recoup the $8000 I wasted on UoP I will be content...not happy...just content. Some money for wasted time would be nice to but right now it is more about principle. Oh yeah why is getting anything in writing from them impossible? Anyway if you know of anyone doing a class action tell me...six one nine two five three eight seven two three.
#17 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Rahul - Portland (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
POSTED: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
Can anyone tell me why UOP credits don't transfer to some colleges after all they are accredited by NCA?
Can you tell us why, Arizona schools are accredited by the NCA when they are not actually in that region?
#18 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
POSTED: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
I wish I could be more help but I am not aware of any class action lawsuits that you might currently join in on.
Your scenario is terrible, but not uncommon. Everything you explain in your memo is commonplace. Let me start with the tactic "Jason" used on you. First, the price he quoted you for the military discount was based off of the priced at AXIA Western International University and not UOPO.
In 2004 UOP Online launched WIU Online. With all the hoopla that came with this launch, it had only one motive. That motive was to capitalize on the millions of dollars they were loosing each year in Title IV funding. WIU was launched as an Associate Degree granting institution. When you look at how Title IV funding is set up, level 1 and level 2 students only qualify for 5K and 7K approx. For a freshman/sophmore at UOP, the tuition was around 11K leaving them with 5-6K out of pocket. Most people ended up in the same scenario you found yourself in, owing money out of pocket. Because UOP could not simply lower their tuition because of the effect it would have on the overall market (competition), they opened WIU and lowered tuition to fit exactly under the lowest amount a student can qualify for through federal stafford funds.
The tactic used on you by Jason was developed to counter concerns that potential students had about the out of pocket expense for first and second year students. Most people that attend UOP do so using Title IV funding but when they hear that they would owe 5K their first year, they would not enroll. Due to the overwhelming presure placed on sales managers and enrollment advisors, new tactics were required to enroll freshman and sophmore students. Jacob Nevzoroff, a manager who is notorious for manipulating the system and still works there, actually trained his team to tell students they could take the first few classes using Title IV funding, and then take a leave of absence until they are able to save enough money to pay for the other classes. What the students were not told is that they can only take a limited amount of time, and that if they drop from full time student status, they were disqualified from using financial aid. Whats more, is that they were not told that many times, the classes they have taken, and that they were told were to be covered by financial aid, are not covered until the financial aid clears. That can take a LONG time. So if the student stops attending before their funds have cleared, they end up owing UOP the money. Lies, Lies Lies. This is policy and as long as they keep people coming in the front, they do not care how many are falling out the back. They often hold funding to keep default rates down. They would rather have a student owe them money, than owe the loan company money.
My advice to you would be this, contact Jason, ask to speak with his manager. Explain the scenario and you will get nowhere because most of the managers who know how to manage have quit. However, explain to the manager the scenario and ask if the tactic used on you was a common tactic. Now after the manager does the "not my responsibility" dance, ask to speak with the senior manager (still usually a complete tool). Explain the situation again. Then ask to speak with the director of enrollment for the military division in the CA region. (dont know who that is anymore). They will all tell you it is a Finance and collections department issue. How to get around this is simple. (Tell them you have the money to pay off the debt, and you want to get enrolled again) they will listen to you if they think they can get money from you. If you can make it to the Director of Enrollment for Military, tell him/her you want to also speak with the director of Finance for the Military. Once you have them both on the line, find out who their military liasion is in your region. (Do this under the guise of wanting to re-enroll, but just wanting to make sure the same thing does not happen again) If you can find out who the military liason is, see if you can contact them. "Try to hit them where it hurts". If they lost their military contract they would lose millions. Next, ask to speak with a dean or chair of academics, tell your story again.
It is a little known fact that Academics and Finance HATE the Enrollment department. They are always cleaning up the mess enrollment leaves behind.
If all else fails, call 1-800-366-9699 and ask to speak with the secretary of Vince Grell, he is the VP of Enrollment. He is a douche, but put a bug in his ear.
To be honest, no one ever does this because it is a lot of work, and most people have better sh*t to do.
If you are going to put your effort into anything, try getting your degree done at another college.
I am still heavily involved with education consulting. If you are still looking to get your lower division credits completed and cannot use financial aid, I would look at Rio Salado College Online in Phoenix. I know a few people that work there and they have a launch program for Walden U Online which is a great online program. The Rio Salado program is only about $150 per class.
If you are looking for something a little different after you experience online, try a ground campus offering online degrees.
Go to www.mind-streams.com and look at their programs. They are aligned with 5 of the top ground campuses in the US offering online degree programs. They have a solid name and treat people great.
Whatever happens.
Good Luck
#19 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Barbara - Chula Vista (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 22, 2005
POSTED: Thursday, December 22, 2005
It is because their academics are substandard to what is offered at other schools. Take for instance Math 208 and 209. They are part of the core that everyone takes and no other math is required. Look at what is taught and match it up to another schools course description and you will find that you just completed a math course that was not even at college level. And unfortunately when you say some schools...you should actually be saying most schools. I have yet to find a school willing to accept my credits from there. Then try taking your degree out into the working world...there is an off chance you might find someone who is also a graduate from there and be happy to hire you but most people will pass right over your resume. It is not the fact that online learning is new because there are plenty of online program. Even NYU has an online program. It is just the fact that UoP is known for substandard education. When I can be in a course not do any assignments except tests, only post my messages (and it was all subjective not fact) and still get a b or c something is wrong.I didn't even crack a book in most cases because it was all about what you feel or what you think and the tests were all common knowledge...except for the idiots they let in the class who thought it was sooooo hard. They probably had a hard time in kindergarten too though and are not the average person.
#20 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Lloyd - Belmont (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 22, 2005
POSTED: Thursday, December 22, 2005
I think this thread does not have the facts straight. I graduated from Pierce College, Washington in 1987 with an AAS degree. Enrolled at UOP, Michigan in the BSM in-seat program 14 years later. All credits from Pierce College transferred.
Upon graduation with a UOP Bachelors Degree in Management, 2003, I immediately enrolled at Davenport University, Michigan for the masters degree; again all credits transferred.
The bachelors and masters degree programs were completely funded through student loans. The method is to not miss a single class, and do not take any breaks between classes. Each and every payment was made on time every time to both schools. I even received a few thousand in my pocket to help along the way.
The proper way to grasp the opportunity of student aid is to start when your schedule is developed, drive hard all the way to the end, and stay clear of online team-based schools.
My future plans are to challenge a PhD with a local RA school, and I have no doubt all credits will transfer and funding will be available.
#21 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Barbara - Chula Vista (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 22, 2005
POSTED: Thursday, December 22, 2005
You in a different situation you had recieved your bachelors and you were going to a different school to get your masters. You already have you degree and because UoP is legally accredited they have to accept the degree to get you into the masters program. What I am talking about was the fact that I was sick of being in courses with stupid classmates and teachers who only taught their opinion because they had no factual knowledge of what they were teaching so I went to transfer to another school and none of the individual courses transferred to any of the schools I had looked at. I pretty much wasted a year and a half but I realized that if I got my degree from there it would be a joke, because UoP is a joke...I would never have a sense of accomplishment. And about the financial aid not covering it...all I can get is loans because of my income it is very expensive to live in my neighborhood yet the financial aid people wont recognize cost of living differences accross the country (a whole seperate story), the maximum loans a student qualifies for goes up each year, so after 24 credits, then after 48, then 72. I think it even goes up for your masters program. I am guessing when you came to UoP you came in as a junior and that is why you had the extra money. For me to get by I would have needed 4 weeks between each course.
#22 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Sandra - Hyde Park (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, December 23, 2005
POSTED: Friday, December 23, 2005
I went to an information sessions last year. I was close to signing up for UPO master degree but reports like this changed my mind. For every person defending UPO there are plenty who will see your report and save themselves the UPO exiperience. So, continue to help others by telling the truth.
#23 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Lloyd - Belmont (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, December 24, 2005
POSTED: Saturday, December 24, 2005
The philosophy of creating a degree program in one university will differ from that of another university. Some educational providers will develop a program specific to the region they operate in.
Education providers are in complete competition with one another and for this (and other) reasons do not cooperate to have their personal programs directly transfer. If students do not like the philosophy then select a different provider.
Many classes at a transferring university will not be equivalent to those others offer. The whole idea is to choose wisely the university to attend and stick with their program all the way through.
Once the desired degree is achieved, and you want to continue to a higher degree, then transfer the degree, not the credits. Jumping around from one provider to another will cause students to redo some classes, add on different classes, and some classes will not apply.
The key to a successful degree completion is to focus on a single provider and get-r-done.
#24 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Kay - Plant City (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, December 29, 2005
POSTED: Thursday, December 29, 2005
Arizona is in the NCA region. Check the regional maps.
#25 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Alfonso - Talent (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, January 03, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, January 03, 2006
I agree with Pap. B, your just a disgruntled employee who probably didn't get promoted and blamed the administration for your own downfalls.
I have been enjoying the UOP a lot and I have attended other universities. You can say what you want about the education, the transfer credits, the this the that whatever. It is all just nonsense. You people need to realize that you get out of something what you put into it. I am willing to bet that a majority of the people who sign up with UOP expect it to be easy and just a breeze through.
It is anything but that. For example, you actually have to 'read' your material to understand it. For the people saying that "You will be laughed out of the building with your UOP degree". This is nonsense and utter rubbish and anecdotal evidence at best. So maybe you won't get a CEO position for your first job. Here's a word for you people - "EXPERIENCE", that is what it really takes to get a good job. Your degree will get you into the interview for a decent entry level position.
So unless you are going to be an Astronomer, Astrophysicist, Nuclear Engineer, Mathematician, or any scientist for that matter I think the UOP is a great school.
#26 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, January 04, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, January 04, 2006
Once again, we find another person who disagrees with something someone else is stating so they simply chalk it up to being the act of a disgruntled employee. Once again I find myself responding to an individual that thinks their own personal experience somehow negates all the other situations these people mentioned above have faced. All I did was legitify the NUMEROUS complaints and issues with UOP from an internal operations standpoint and a customer service standpoint.
I am glad that your experience has been positive thus far because it may mean that things are turning around there. However, it does not mean that the statements I made are any less true. I speak from an internal experience standpoint. So for you to chalk my statements up to me being disgruntled just because you do not agree is just plain ignorant. Look, Ill show you how ignorant it is to try and negate another persons first hand account by discrediting that individual. Lets take your scenario for example and I will do to you what you did to me.
Your experience has been positive with UOP. Well it sounds to me like you are just the type of person who is easily taken advantage of and just doesnt pay attention to what is really going on. The only possible explainations for your positive experience with UOP can be either that you have extremely low standards when it comes to level of service and quality, or you are either too lazy or too dumb to care.
See how lame that is? Just because I don't agree with you I simply place you in the realm of lying, being stupid or having an alterior motive for not agreeing with me.
So just keep ignoring the fact that what I say is actually true, and does come directly from personal experiences. Just stay in your little box of reality where only your experiences and opinions shape the fabric of everyone elses reality.
Or maybe, you could learn something, and use this information to protect yourself from falling into bad situations in the future. My purpose is simple. If someone reads the information and decides not to go, then no harm done. If they do go then they are at least aware of the risks and can protect themself from these situations. Best case scenario, the person has a great experience and no harm is done and if this happens often enough, the ratio of bad experience to good experience will shift, and pages like this will no longer need to exist.
So exactly what is it that you have a problem with?
Anyway, FYI, I was offered a management position in 2004 which I refused... Wait, there is no way that can be true because it does not fit into the reality where your opinion dictates truth and I was only a disgruntled employee...
#27 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Alfonso - Talent (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, January 04, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, January 04, 2006
B,
I did in fact make my own assumptions about what may have gone down in your situation. That is just plain human intuition. Looking at what you wrote and how it was written to me it comes across as this: You had a bad experience with the UOP and now it's time to say something about it. Am I wrong with that assumption? I mean you had to have been mad at something.
The problem I have is with people coming into a public forum like this and try to ruin the credibility of an institution that is nationally accredited by the same accreditation company that accredits Harvard, Yale, etc.
The real kicker is the same people try to degrade the worthiness of a Bachelor's, Master's, Doctorate, whatever degree that is earned by another simply because it comes from the UOP. The funny thing is that a lot of these people have never attended the UOP or are even remotely familiar with the curriculum or how the classes work. Is that not ignorance by definition? I got news for a lot of you, many companies don't really care where your degree comes from as long as you show you have the skills to do the job. Now I will in no way sit here and say a UOP degree is more valuable or compares to a degree from Harvard or Yale, but in all honesty those people are very unique individuals to begin with. And they won't be starting in entry level positions wherever they go. Agree or disagree?
The whole implication that a college education is the end-all path to a great career is vastly exagerrated. A bachelor's degree in my opinion nowadays gets you an interview to a decent entry level position, and it is experience that naturally gets a very well paying job. I'm sure we all have seen times when it isn't 'what you know' it is 'who you know'.
There are bad experiences, there is no doubt about that. The majority of the bad experiences I have read here are all about money issues because they found out they had to pay more than they thought and all that jazz. I believe this is a case of just not reading what your supposed to before signing up.
-All the best.
#28 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Paddi - Rockford (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, January 15, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, January 15, 2006
In December of 2005, University of Phoenix voluntarily withdrew NLNAC accreditation. That withdrawel is explained as "Voluntary Withdrawal: Month and Year
Program voluntarily withdraws from NLNAC accreditation
--Withdrawal: Month and Year
Action to withdraw recognition of accreditation due to refusal of accreditation or focused visit or failure to submit self-study, interim* or focused report as specified by the Commission
Interesting
#29 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Paul - Sunrise (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, January 19, 2006
POSTED: Thursday, January 19, 2006
Where did u get your degrea from Alfonso? Why would you defend a non-acredited ripoff organization like university of phoenix. Why is University of Phoenix a rip-off? Because anyone can get in, anyone can pass, as long as you pay the money. How can you tell me an online university of phoenix degree is as good as my degree from the University of Florida? I moved hundred miles away, I studied every night, I didnt have time to work I went to school full time and it still took me 5 years to get my bachelors degree,I had to bust my but in high school to get in and then I had to spend money and time on SATs, and I finally got lucky and got accepted to a decent school and I spent 5 years busting my but to get my degree, and your telling me a degree from phoenix is a good degree, give me a break the only people dumb enough to enroll in the university of phoenix are dumb enough to graduate from it 20,000 dollars in the hole, which doesn't say much. If you don't have enough common sence to know a scam when you see one, you don't have enough common sence to be in college. I got an e-mail about a month ago from a counselor from UofP and I told them I graduated from UF, and that was the end of the e-mails. DONT GOTO THIS SCHOOL! If you cant get into a decent school apply to community college or University of Toledo in Ohio they have a 96 percent acceptance rate and they are acreddited and I would rather have one degrea from Toledo than 10 from phoenix.
#30 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Barbara - Chula Vista (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, January 24, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, January 24, 2006
Paul-you need to relax a little. You can't knock something you have never experienced. I happen to be very educated and still ended up at university of phoenix. I had a 4.0 in high school (a little higher because of honors and AP classes actually). I could have gone almost anywhere I wanted. I ended up at San Diego state. I had some unfortunate things happen in my life and had to work full time. With this, going to state full time didn't work so I went to community college part time. My employer offered tuition assistance for UoP and I saw that going there for what is considered full time while working would be possible and I was desperate to finish up...I checked to make sure they were accredited...they were. I knew it was going to be expensive but by this point I had the money and didn't care. Where the problems came was once I was enrolled I realized that there was not another person aside from me in any of my courses with more than half a brain. These people were having trouble with the very math I took in 6th grade. Considering I took 2nd year calculus my senior year in high school I didn't understand why I was in a course with these people. They couldn't spell, read, write...it was horrible. I found myself single handedly doing the group assignments. Upon getting out of there I realized that their credits don't transfer.
Alfonso-I would suggest you transfer to a real school because your comprehension skills lack. B in no way sounded disgruntled to me, he even admits he is not disgruntled. He was actually quite successful in his years working at UoP he just thought the story needed to be told. And don't think I am just defending him because he is talking bad about UoP (that would be an un-educated guess) because I do not agree at all with what Paul had to say. Oh yeah let them keep telling you at UoP that a degree only gets you an entry level position. You can get an entry level position without a degree. If you are intelligent now that you have been given this info (I didn't have that luxury) you will do your homework...check to see which schools or employers value a UoP degree. I will tell you what my old employer, an internationally recognized business will no longer pay tuition reimbursement to someone who attends UoP and neither will many other employers.
Please B keep doing your good work. Considering UoP prays on military families and single parents we need to stop them.
#31 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Alfonso - Talent (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, January 26, 2006
POSTED: Thursday, January 26, 2006
Paul - I find it comical that someone who has never done online education can just discredit it without ever experiencing it. Beyond that, it looks as if the University of Florida didn't help you much with sentence structure or proper grammar. If you really did your research you would find out that UoP is nationally accredited by the same institution that accredits Harvard, Yale, etc.
Barbara - Don't patronize me and tell me I should consider transferring because of my comprehension level, because I think your comprehension level lacks. How about you quit trying to sound like your so smart and look at the obvious miss 4.0 GPA. Anyone who comes to a public forum and deliberately tries to discredit any business has in some form or another a problem with that business in question. Do you really think that someone who enjoys what they were doing will post something like 'B' posted? It doesn't sound disgruntled to you because you agree with it.
#32 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Shawn - East Boston (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, January 28, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, January 28, 2006
This University of Phoenix scenerio is unfortunate. Proprietary school often get the better of students Many of these students at these school are hopeful for an education. No on can blame them.
Unfortunately, most employers look at degrees like this and scoff. Furthermore, these schools often get their students in financial trouble after the empty promises of high wages fall through. I strongly suggest a state university of even community college over these paper mills. It really comes down to the fact people want to see you actually GOT OUT OF YOUR HOUSE and attended class. College is about learning, yes. College is also about making connection, networking, meeting new and different people with new ideas. You are depriving yourself of these things (and a decent education, by the way) by attending these paper mills.
#33
AUTHOR: Tom - Parker (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, January 28, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, January 28, 2006
I think University of Phoenix is a good school, because I know some very well educated people who have tough there.
I have a retired uncle who is a former college mathematics professor at University of Phoenix, Denver University, University of Colorado, and Arapahoe Community College. He has a master of mathematics, and he has over 30 years of teaching experience in college algebra, integral calculus, probability, linear algebra, and differntial equation.
I also know a retired Douglas County Judge (who is also a lawyer) who teaches at University of Phoenix.
The bottom line is that when you are attacking UOP because you are upset at it, please do not attack and insult the teachers there -- that is very irrelevant and irrational. Attacking teachers and students at UOP by saying they are stupid would make your reasoning an ad hominem reasoning.
Thanks.
#34 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: K - Ogden (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, February 03, 2006
POSTED: Friday, February 03, 2006
I came across this discussion quite by accident, as I was searching for a course syllabus from a class in Software Engineering that I took from UOP in 1999. The whole reason I am searching for the syllabus, which I cannot find and apparently is not taught at UOP anymore according to their catalog, is that after becoming thoroughly disgusted with UOP and its campus in Utah in 1999, I have decided (7 years later) to complete my degree at Weber State University in Utah. The credits from UOP that transfer to another institution are limited at best. Of the 44 that I completed, only 3 courses transferred over to fulful non-elective core areas. I am in the process of trying to convince the Administration at Weber that a few of the classes may equate to fill their core general education requirements, hence the research on past classes taken at UOP.
I am compelled to comment on this thread because of length of time that has expired since my attendance in 1998-99 to the comments that I see posted recently. Apparently, not much has changed with this school as many of the problem reported today are ones that I experienced over 7 years ago! Unfortunately, I completed 44 credits with this school and I am still repaying student loans that at one time totalled over $12,000. The problems that I experienced were a) being lied to about credit transfers to other institutions (very obvious to me now!) b) misleading statements from UOP personnel about the length of time to complete the degree and the ease of CLEP tests, which I knew nothing about at the time c) being saddled with other students in a group setting in which they do little or none of their share of work but your grade depends on the outcome d) tuition kept rising every go-round e) the courses that I attended were substantially less caliber than courses I took at even my community college. The list goes on, but the bottom line was that I felt I was getting shafted and finally got out. I guess I feel that if I am going to do business with someone, that it better be honest business. I never felt like UOP was honest with me in many regards, but perhaps at the time I was willing to believe the recruiter's statements.
I am truly grateful that I got out when I did after finally having enough. I have been so bitter about the experience since then that I haven't attempted to finish my education until this Spring. Fortunately, I have a great job now, but finishing my education was always important to me. Of the 44 credits I completed, the majority transferred as electives only. Although unfortunate, I have only myself to blame for not researching the transfer issue further and taking someone's word for it at UOP. I am even more grateful that I did not complete my degree at UOP, as they are not highly regarded by anyone that I am aware of, particularly in this area of the country. As an employer, when we see two candidates side by side with similar qualifications and one has a degree from UOP and one from Utah State or another legitimately founded and accredited institution, we gravitate toward the latter when making a choice. When someone mentions in conversation that they have attended UOP, the comments are usually negative as to the experience. When someone mentions that they received their degree from UOP, many people's reaction is "Oh, I'm sorry".
I had a close friend graduate from UOP this year after about 6 years of struggling to complete her degree while having 2 children, etc. She even worked in the financial aid department for approximately a year and received reduced tuition. I feel sorry for her because she paid so much for a sub-standard education. I know that she was equally frustrated with UOP but was in too deep to go anywhere else to finish. I have licked my wounds and am moving on, but I would strongly encourage anyone that considers attending this "University" to fully research any questions you have before committing to anything. In addition, call up a few major employers in your area and just ask them what their perception of a degree from University of Phoenix is. Find out for yourself what it is worth and calculate the entire cost before you commit.
I did see a recent post that commented on the instructors at UOP. I can say that I had a few very positive experiences when it came to the instructors at the Utah campus and some of them were very knowledgeable. But the instructors are not the problem, it is the compressed sub-standard cirriculum and course content combined with the greed and dishonesty of the administration.
Overall, I wanted to share my experience as a warning, and perhaps to finally write off that part of my life as a bad experience and move on. I spent about a half hour reading the back and forth comments between B and Pap, and can only say that as a student, the experience was more in line with B's description thans Pap's if that makes any difference.
PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND INFORM YOURSELVES!
#35 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: John - Overland Park (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, February 13, 2006
POSTED: Monday, February 13, 2006
I'm so disappointed about this wannabe institution. I was supicious after the first 9 weeks. I picked up a pattern early and have watched it over and over through each class. I wrote a paper with references and the instructor gave me 10/30 points because he thought I copied the entire article. It's a tribute to my writing talent but all he had to do was look at my references. My paper was totally opposite of the article. The article boast on helping people, while my paper was a satire as to why they helped these villages...they were pulling 40,000 barrels of oil out of their villages a day. I had to call the instructor to tell him he was wrong. So later, I submitted papers 3 days late with no references and still received 85-100% on my grade and didn't even meet the word count requirement let alone the paper had no references and was 3 days late. It's a total joke! After this next 8 weeks and the Associates is acquired, I'm bailing faster than you can blink an eye. I am embarrassed to say I'm doing the UOP thing. The academic and financial counselors have no clue about their fields. All they can advise you on is when it's time to fill the financial aide form and when you missed attendance. They offer no alternative financial aide programs or alternatives. VERY VERY SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS when the government gives loans for this institution. Someone is sleeping with someone.
#36 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Kathy - Woodstock (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, February 21, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, February 21, 2006
For everyone who hates it so bad, take a deep breath and move on with your life. If you are going there and do not like it then transfer. If you have already transferred, give yourself a pat on the back for making your life “better,” and stop stressing yourself over your past “mistake.”
I like UOP. I have been going non-stop since June of 2003, only getting the week between Christmas and New Year's off. I go on campus, so that does include a night away from home. I work full time, and I am the Marketing/Fundraising/Public Relations Chair for my local chapter of Habitat for Humanity. My plate is full, but that is what happens when you go to college, work and volunteer at the same time. I have only missed one day of class since the day I started, and that was because I was in another state at my grandmother's funeral. I just spent Valentine's Day/my ninth wedding anniversary in class all night. I would have rather been home with my husband, but the class was my obligation. When I signed up to get my degree, I made a commitment with UOP and myself to follow the rules and do the best I could. The only change I would make at UOP would be to offer the chance to earn your Greek letters. I go to an on-ground campus and they are not available to us. It is a shame, because my GPA is good enough for it. That is fine though, my diploma will still say “with honors.”
Hooray for those of you who claim to do nothing and still pass. I for one have worked hard and had some very strict instructors. I have even had papers dropped to an A- for three mistakes (two commas and one commonly confused word). Would you like to know something? I am very thankful to have had teachers that were beastly strict. It has made me become a much better researcher and writer.
Do you think those things do not matter? If so you are clearly wrong. Some of the reports I have read on here from people that ended up getting a degree from another college amuse me. Do you write that poorly at work? Does your resume look that bad? Maybe that is why you cannot find a job. Ok, sorry for the insults, but I am just trying to make a point. You will get out of an education what you put in to it. More than 70 percent of what I have learned has been self-taught. I have learned most if it through my research for the dreadful (but sometimes fun) weekly papers.
I can run circles around many of the people I know that are attending state colleges for the same field of study I am taking. Why you might ask? It is because I do not take any assignment lightly. If I did, I would not learn anything from it. All of my papers go above and beyond the minimum requirements. True, I do not have to go so deeply into the topic, but I do it because I want to learn something. I want to be the best, future Marketing Manager I can be. If it means looking beyond a few things that I might disagree with in the school or classroom, then so be it. Are you satisfied with every single aspect of your life other than UOP? It is doubtful. No person, thing or institution is perfect and no one will ever be perfectly satisfied.
As for me, I will complete my degree by this September. If you recall, my first class (and I had no prior college credits) began June 2003. That is three years and three months. I will have a Bachelor of Science with dual majors in Business Management and Marketing. It has taken testing out of four classes and doubling up for three months to make it happen, but like I said, you get what you give. My lowest grade thus far has been an A-. I have a 3.9 GPA, and I plan on keeping it.
#37 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 22, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, February 22, 2006
Thank you for that insightful lecture about your intellectual prowess. I am sure everyone will be enthralled with the exciting tales of your GPA and “with honors” accomplishments. You seemed however, in your great pursuit of higher education, incapable of extracting the fundamental concepts of the reading material at hand. You mention you go to the ground campus. The majority of this thread is about UOP Online. Since you are the intellectual type I would assume you might have known that UOP Ground and UOP Online are actually separate entities. Only until recently, (a couple of months ago), was Brian Muller, CEO of Online, promoted to President of Apollo Group after Todd Nelson stepped down. Only now, will the corrupt corporate culture of UOP Online began to seep into the ground campus system. The only thing that affected the ground campuses standards before was trying to keep up with the low standards in place at the online.
Let me address your statement. If you are indeed an “honors student” then your academic knowledge should lead you to understand that biased research yields biased results. Because of that I must ask you, have you been in another colleges degree program for a pro-longed period of time, or are you making these statements regarding the validity of UOP Grounds program without any exposure to another degree program?
Here is the thing. I have taken both online and ground courses at UOP. So when I see people bragging about high grades in either program I must snicker at them. Perhaps you should investigate the business aspect of a for-profit organization and how the bottom line really affects grade policy. EVERYONE who does the basic work in class will receive at least a “B”. I have had team members who have sub-high school writing skills and who have received a “B” grade in the Masters program. Why? Because the business wants you to keep taking classes so they can get more money from you. I will admit that online has been a much worse violator of such methodology, but the ground campuses are very competitive with online and are also guilty of such methods. Because online and ground are separate entities, there is actual product cannibalization ongoing within the University of Phoenix Brand. Throughout the Phoenix area there are ground campus advertisement signs for UOP attacking the Online segment with advertisements stating “Interact with more than your PC”. Competitiveness means retention. Retention means setting an equal field of battle between the two segments. That means most people will take the path of least resistance. Why would ground drive students away by instituting strict academic standards when the majority of those people will then just flee to UOP Online?
You are fooling yourself. My suggestion is to get some perspective. Considering I have now worked for 3 companies in education, 1 of which represents 6 institutions of higher education both for-profit and non-profit provides me some insight into the differences between a real graduate/undergrad programs and those offered by UOP ground or online. Non-profit colleges have no obligation to shareholders so profits mean something completely different. This has a trickle down affect that dictates the academic standards the university operates under. The difference in night and day. I have taken classes at every university out firm represents in order to understand the product we market. By comparing that to my masters program at UOP online and ground, I have concluded that UOP's program is a joke.
Listening to someone pat themselves on the back for good grades at UOP like you did is amusing. It is like announcing to the world you are the world's greatest athlete because you just won gold at the Special Olympics. Being the smartest dumb person isn't a bad thing unless you brag about it. Someone needs to take your little horn away because you have tooted it way too much without cause.
Don't get me wrong, I believe some education is better than none at all, and things can be learned at UOP with enough time and effort. But do not patronize people who have a wider swath of experience in education by making statements like the one above. Here is one way of determining your prowess. After you completing your degree/degrees go take some classes at a local campus and see how you do while working full time. Better yet, try and transfer your courses into a college like ASU or University of Arizona. I can bet you that they will not accept the majority of your credits regardless of grades. What does that tell you about the validity of the program?
Since we are bragging, I just totally dominated my 6 year-old nephew at Scrabble. He made some good plays and everything. He played A-P-P-L-E and D-O-G-G-Y but I totally came back with O-V-E-R-S-T-A-T-E-D S-E-N-S-E O-F A-C-C-O-M-P-L-I-S-H-M-E-N-T. I mean, I should get an award or something for being so smart. Does Scrabble give out Greek Letters for achievement? Because I totally deserve one…
#38 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, February 22, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, February 22, 2006
Tom, I understand your defense of the instructors at UOP. I can say that one of the best courses I took was Economics in my masters program there. The instructor was highly educated and the academic standard in the class was high. However, the MBA program required 16 courses to complete it and 1 out of 16 does not cut it. I am sure your relative is actually quailfied to teach, but a few qualified individuals cannot make up for the majority that are not or simply do not care. There are some students that try extremely hard and receive high grades, but that does not make up for the majority of students that do very little and receive "B" grades. I have seen it first hand and I deminishes the high grades and the effort real students put forth.
Do not be fooled, making money is the most important thing to the new Apollo CEO Brian Muller. Before he was only the CEO of UOP Online. In 2003 I was in a meeting with Muller and he made a statement that really got me thinking. He said the he wanted to be at 1,000,000 students by 2010. 1,000,000 students is extremely ambitious but they have the money to make it a reality. However, that begs the ethical question of "should they". I think not and here is why. Lets assume that the number of students per course remains static, as well as the number of partime instructors and the pay scale for those instructors.
Typically you need 1 instructor for every 100 students as 1 instuctor could teach 6 classes per year that equals . This means that instructor to student ratio is 1:90. They would need to hire over 11,000 qualified instructors just to teach the classes. Considering that number alone, the current competition in the online arena, and the pay rate for instructors. I do not see that as possible. They can do it, but something will need to be sacrificed. As with many mass produced items, quality of product is usually first to suffer. I do not think education can be, or should be mass produced. Six Sigma principals cannot be applied to teaching quality so trying to mass produce educaiton will surely yield lower quality. With such a high relative price point, and increasing competition, UOP cannot afford to take that route.
#39 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Kenneth - Canton (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, March 13, 2006
POSTED: Monday, March 13, 2006
According to some it is worthless but it was a goal of mine that I would like to finish.
I am schedule to graduate in June of 2006 but around January I received a letter from UoP showing my graduation requirements. It showed all the classes I took and what I still needed. Surprisingly it also showed that I need 3 elective classes and a math elective class. Some how the university added 4 classes to my schedule. After speaking with the counselors, I have had 8 since I started 2 years ago. It was told to me that it was all undergraduate stuff.
Fortunately I have been to many schools. I only submitted transcripts from the school I got my A.A. at. I was accepted. I told them I have plenty of under graduate electives so I will submit transcripts from my other schools. Hopefully they will honor those and I can graduate on time. I am not holding my breath.
As I started to think about my whole experience at UoP I started to realize that the school was a business and not a place for higher learning. When I was accepted in the program my EA, as they call them, said nothing of these classes. About 6 months after starting at UoP I was informed that I need to take a Math class, a Critical Thinking class, and an English class because I was deficient in these areas. Again, no previous mention was mad of these needed classes. After much debate I was informed that I could try to test out of them. I did pass and the classes were waived.
Another 6 months later on of my counselors mentioned I need an elective math class even though I just test out of one. This class again was not mentioned by my EA or on my initial graduation course schedule. It just popped up out of the blue. As I was still a year from graduation I paid no attention to it. Six months later, like clock work is when I got the letter from UoP that I was shy the math and 12 undergraduate elective credits. These credits seem to be the same ones that I tested out of the year before. I was informed that I could try to test out of them again but this time it would cost me $50.00 each try.
I then started to speak to former UoP students and it seems that this type of extra class adding is common place. Every former UoP graduate had the same experience. A meaningless math class showed up near graduation that must be taken or no diploma. But you can still go through graduation as long as you only have 15 credits or less to go.
I then started to speak to classmates and around 10 of them said the same thing happened to them with the 3 proficiency classes and the late add-on math class. I then realized the whole scam. I thought. After reading the post at this website I realized that I am but a small part of a huge government Title IV rip off program by the University of Phoenix disguised as a higher learning education.
#40 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: M - Midvale (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
B I can respect some of your points but when you call people stupid your words lose their value. Save your breath about trying to rip into me cause my perception is a bit different than yours. Stop your internal dialogue about "How wrong you are."
UOP is a bit Mickey Mouse, however, some people are still putting in the time and effort. Putting them down for trying to obtain the best grade possible, is working backwards and only defeats your point. If you can get the degree as the stepping stone towards betterment of your life regardless of being a higher degree, a job, a promotion or just sense of accomplishment. Is that so bad? It's obvious that UOP is about the money and cranking you out. That's why it's called capitalism.
You want to speak of the Special Olympics, arguing on the internet is very similar cause even if you win, you are still retarded.
#41 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
"M" must be for mystery, because I do not recall reading a thread from you in this area. But since you felt the need to chime in, here we go again.
First rule of posting witty retorts on the net is to make sure they are your own. Nice line about the Special Olympics and arguing on the net. I must have seen that come through my email account with the handicapped kid crossing the finish line at least 100 times. Since you are familiar with UOPO then at least give credit to the original author or put the quote in APA formt. If you are quoting spam, I guess next you are going to tell me that you finally got your check from Bill Gates because you forwarded that email 5 years ago, and that your luck has been outstanding lately because your forwarded the "good luck" email to 10 people in the "next 5 minutes".
If you read through the posts on this site, every person I attack comes in here trying to spout non-sense because they do not want to accept the truth. What I say about UOPO violates the safe little space they live in where every decision they make is perfect. When someone challenges that space, most people react with anger. If you go back through the posts, you will see the only people I go after are the people who come in here pissed off or spouting nonsense. They serve only to perpetuate ignorance. Instead of conceding that they may not know what they are talking about when it comes to how UOP operates, or that they really have no perspective on what a real college program entails, they simply argue nonsense.
These people are the same people who do not research anything, they look at what is on the surface of something and then form their entire comprehensive doctrine around a few superficial points. I call these people "Bush Voters".
As for your little lecture about capitalism, I am all for it. But maybe you should do a little research on the effect morally corrupt corporate entities are having on our country. When I hear someone try to argue capitalism and try to use it as an excuse or license for corporate entities to do whatever they want, it makes me cringe.
Wasn't it Teddy Roosevelt that said he did not want a single millionaire to be created from the devastation of the war? Now our country is in a war that is making corporate entities billions of dollars. This is all done under the guise of "hey, that's just capitalism". So for the future, just save your political rhetoric on this topic. UOPO and their exploiting and dishonest methods to make money represent everything that is wrong with our country. The only thing that is worse is people who are too blind to see it and support it through comments like you just made.
#42 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: M - Midvale (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
I have been on the net long enough to know that slogan has been around for years and but yet it proves my point perfectly from your response. By the way that's the 2nd rule. I have been in the computer business longer than you been ripping people off, back when they used BNC's to form networks.
You are the morally corrupt, "Let my start by saying that I was an enrollment advisor for University of Phoenix Online, and AXIA/WIU Online under Apollo Group for 3 years. I recently quit from my position as one of their highest paid advisors. Paid on the amount of enrollments I did in 2003." It took you 3 years to realize this is wrong and you have the gall to call other people stupid? Wow that is funny, most people would have walked away from the start, so you made money off of those poor people you now want to save. You then come on here and try to take the moral high road to redeem yourself is laughable and ridiculous.
You are correct when you talk about the state of our nation, the president and big business. However it's all politicians so lets not split hairs, they are all corrupt puppets of some form. You failed to realize what I was saying about capitalism, if people are dumb enough to buy the "pet rock", who are you to tell them "No, don't it's not alive" after being one who sold them. Now that was all metaphoric, if you want I can draw you a picture.
#43 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
Look at the Big Brain on “M”! Wow, can you please draw me a picture? Easy there Captain Computer, you have been around the computer business so long you might have forgotten how to use a pencil. Can you do it in Photoshop or Correl Draw for me? Either way, you seem to forget the part about reading the entire post before extracting points out of it. See, you tried to look all intelligent by taking a quote from my original post here in order to discredit me and make me look like the bad guy. However, perhaps due to ADD, you somehow forgot to read the rest of the post. Here, to make it easy for you I'll show you what I said: Paragraph 3 “The company as a whole does contain good people, some of which do try and help and have good intentions. The problem stems directly from one man the CEO, Brain Muller. He has set in motion internal policies that create a hopeless scenario for all within the organization. They either comply, lose money, or are fired. When you start threatening a person's lively hood, they will usually fall in line. This is why so many good people have had to deceive or lie to potential students, and why you see so many reports in this forum.”
See there M, a quasi-intelligent computer wiz like yourself should have caught that. But instead, you only succeeded in making yourself look like an… wait, they'll omit this if I say it. See, I realized that an organization can be successful selling education the right way, the honest way. They can turn a profit and actually help people. When I began to see that Brian Muller had no intentions of handling growth and profit with the slightest bit of moral or ethical concern, I did leave. I was extremely successful, but I was always honest. So basically your whole point just now was simply an attempt to attack me because you did not like what I said to you. This only goes to validate my original point about the reaction of people when you threaten their safety zone.
Pet Rock? Show me a pet rock that costs $60,000 and that people can use US tax dollars to purchase. Then again, if we are comparing this to UOP they would only be claiming it was a pet rock when you are looking to buy it. Then when you get it, its just a box full of crap. Not a rock, not even a petrified turd which might resemble a rock with enough effort, just a heaping, steaming pile of crap. And we all know that no matter how hard you try, you just can't polish a turd…
P.S. M, please do not forget the picture you promised to draw me…
#44 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: M - Midvale (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, March 14, 2006
B first and foremost I am not threatened by you or your diatribe about something you believe in, in fact I am cool with that part.
However, you still took the money, that does make you a part of the bad guys. You are saying you did nothing wrong is like saying the gun acted alone in killing someone. It is the people that squeeze the trigger. I doubt you had anyone holding a gun to your head. You make it clear that you are so much smarter but yet you wallow in your pathetic excuses and lacked the testicular fortitude to get up and walk out until after the fact.
Let me show you where you attacked me first, your brain must be melthing from the heat down there. 'First rule of posting witty retorts on the net is to make sure they are your own. Nice line about the Special Olympics and arguing on the net. I must have seen that come through my email account with the handicapped kid crossing the finish line at least 100 times. Since you are familiar with UOPO then at least give credit to the original author or put the quote in APA formt. If you are quoting spam, I guess next you are going to tell me that you finally got your check from Bill Gates because you forwarded that email 5 years ago, and that your luck has been outstanding lately because your forwarded the "good luck" email to 10 people in the "next 5 minutes".'
As for the picture, I was going to draw it crayon to bring it down to your comprehension level but I realized that it would be a waste of time, oh and good job and knowing 2 computer photo/art programs. You get a star!
You obviously can't handle a differing opinion than your own, next time don't put in an open forum. You being uber-intelligent would have figured that out but apparently you're not as quick as you talk yourself up to be. If you would have understood my original post you would have seen that I agreed with some of what you had to say. You then went on your idiotic diatribe.
#45 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006
See what happens when you try to polish a turd? You just smear it everywhere. This was such a clean posting room prior to your arrival. Oh well. Much like Andy Dufrane in the Shawshank Redemption, I will swim through a river of “M” crap to come out clean on the other side.
You totally got me on the computer art programs thing. I totally had to search the net for hours and hours just to find those two programs. Man was I beat after that. And could you stop using them big fancy words n such like diatribe and testicular fortitude? And man, that was a zinger with the whole reference about my brain melting because I live in Arizona. Wow, that was original, who would have been witty enough to use an “Arizona is a hot place” reference. Big Ups to you on that one. That's just as witty as me asking how many wives you have because you live in Utah. Are you going to be in that new HBO series “Big Love”? And I think you were lying to me about the picture, crayon would be fine but you really shouldn't make promises you cannot keep. I am extremely disappointed in you.
By the way, if you think that was attacking you about the spam stuff, then I would advise you to go get some Midol to fend off your cramps or some Estrovent to stop the hot flashes and nipple sensitivity you must experience. Testicular fortitude? Hey man, lets leave each others nuts out this, whatever you do up in Utah is fine by me, but that dog wont hunt down here. (its too hot… …remember?)
Arguing with your assumptions about what I did as an EA at UOP is futile because you are using speculation and assumption to try and prove your point. You know what they say about assuming things? If I was at all shady in my endeavors there, I would still be working there as a manager teaching others how to manipulate people. They changed their approach to sales, increase price to an unreasonable point, began manipulating numbers for shareholders, lied about overtime payments to the AZDOL, lied about financial aid dispersing to Title IV, lied about recruiting practices to the DOE, and created a scenario where employees could either lie and cheat, get fired, or leave. It even got to the point where they asked me to lie to the new training classes. Many of the people that work there do not even know they are being dishonest because that is how they were trained by the company. I tried to do it the right way, when I no longer could, I left.
We can keep beating a dead horse here if you would like but if you are going to keep this up, pick something that has a legitimate claim here.
“Never rub another mans rhubarb!” The Joker. This thread is my rhubarb. Did you want to keep rubbing it?
#46 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: M - Midvale (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006
I am finding it very amusing that when your own tatics and points are used against you, you twist them again in an effort to prove you are right.
If you have to swim through a river of crap, it's of your own making. Be a man for once in your life and accept the responsibility that you keep running away from.
If the words I use are big and you need to look them up, that's your problem not mine. If you want to make homosexual comments, save them for your boyfriend or life partner (your choice of words on that).
Oh and I do enjoy making you show yourself as the mental pygmy you are!
Gotta go the wives and me are going to have an orgy.
#47 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, March 15, 2006
Okay, I'm not even going to count that as a round becuase you didnt really try. I am going to give you another chance before I reply. This time try using your own material. You can't use what I did, we have already been over this with the whole internet spam thing.
Okay, lets try something original this time.
and go...
#48 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Ken - Mattoon (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, March 19, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, March 19, 2006
Hello I have to partially disagree with the bad vibes against UOP
All Universities are expensive, whether you attend in a physical class room setting or their online curriculum.
A friend of mine finished up his Masters in Sociology at University of Illinois, cost factor was $53,000.
Another associate finished up a degree in law at University of St. Louis, at the tune of $57,000.
Lets face it folks self improvement is expensive no matter were one is attending. It is like a diet program which is a hot market, self improvement is a hot market, and online education is growing leaps and bound.
No one person from any university can actually guarantee you a job out there, due to the ever-changing industries.
Self improvement is tough especially in today's society but does leave a small window of opportunity for the baby boomers to grab a career change to take us into our retirement, considering the generation behind us is the drug and dropout generation.
There is and will be more of a gap for qualified people with any degree from anywhere.
It is plain as the nose on ones face that if the interviewer is partial toward Harvard University grads well that is who they will focus on, if the interviewer is partial toward grads from Southern Illinois University Carbondale that would be the focus.
For a long time heard bad vibes about SIU being nothing but a place to party and get in trouble.
Heard some whispers that grads from SIU have a degree in party and fun, so no matter what University you will hear feedback.
University of Chicago all they do is pass illiterate people with teaching degrees, another rumor.
It does not matter what degree you have, having a degree is one thing knowing the right people in key positions is another.
If you don't get out there and network the right people that degree from any school is worthless.
I have been doing business since 1983 and if I don't get out there and network at an after hour network event, a chamber meeting or even a Microsoft event etc, well simple no business, school is the same way.
I have had several career recruiters tell me, that the degree in some cases is not as important as an individual's stability, dependability, industry experience, and background and drug history (Is it clean)
I am sure that your academic advisors from any school will tell students this.
Feedback to me as well, this is what mandates the industry in technology, 10+ years industry experience, work history of solid 10+years in any area, clean background, if the person is teachable and a 2 / 4 year degree from any university in computer science as well as information technologies. I have to say one thing 2-3 year industry experience in ORACLE / COLDFUSION app dev… is sweet, wow low!!!! Yes I have actually seen these qualifications, not to mention great pay, it is slow but at a creep technology is coming back S-W-E-E-T!!!!!
Timing and positioning is everything, if you have a degree from anywhere, timing and positioning is off, that degree is not being utilized you can say it is pretty much a piece of paper.
Had another recruiter tell me that school curriculum is one thing, a person's discipline level is another, he went on to tell me that we have hired young people that have degrees but they are not dependable surely not stable.
Rule of thumb if the interviewer likes you, chances are you will make it to second base in the interview process.
I have had interviewers tell me that 40% of applicants do not make it to the interview on time let alone through the process.
Whatever UOP is doing underhanded, it will come back on them one day because the law of averages, what goes around comes around.
Thanks Appreciation, Ken
#49 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Ken - Mattoon (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, March 19, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, March 19, 2006
Hello I have to partially disagree with the bad vibes against UOP
All Universities are expensive, whether you attend in a physical class room setting or their online curriculum.
A friend of mine finished up his Masters in Sociology at University of Illinois, cost factor was $53,000.
Another associate finished up a degree in law at University of St. Louis, at the tune of $57,000.
Lets face it folks self improvement is expensive no matter were one is attending. It is like a diet program which is a hot market, self improvement is a hot market, and online education is growing leaps and bound.
No one person from any university can actually guarantee you a job out there, due to the ever-changing industries.
Self improvement is tough especially in today's society but does leave a small window of opportunity for the baby boomers to grab a career change to take us into our retirement, considering the generation behind us is the drug and dropout generation.
There is and will be more of a gap for qualified people with any degree from anywhere.
It is plain as the nose on ones face that if the interviewer is partial toward Harvard University grads well that is who they will focus on, if the interviewer is partial toward grads from Southern Illinois University Carbondale that would be the focus.
For a long time heard bad vibes about SIU being nothing but a place to party and get in trouble.
Heard some whispers that grads from SIU have a degree in party and fun, so no matter what University you will hear feedback.
University of Chicago all they do is pass illiterate people with teaching degrees, another rumor.
It does not matter what degree you have, having a degree is one thing knowing the right people in key positions is another.
If you don't get out there and network the right people that degree from any school is worthless.
I have been doing business since 1983 and if I don't get out there and network at an after hour network event, a chamber meeting or even a Microsoft event etc, well simple no business, school is the same way.
I have had several career recruiters tell me, that the degree in some cases is not as important as an individual's stability, dependability, industry experience, and background and drug history (Is it clean)
I am sure that your academic advisors from any school will tell students this.
Feedback to me as well, this is what mandates the industry in technology, 10+ years industry experience, work history of solid 10+years in any area, clean background, if the person is teachable and a 2 / 4 year degree from any university in computer science as well as information technologies. I have to say one thing 2-3 year industry experience in ORACLE / COLDFUSION app dev… is sweet, wow low!!!! Yes I have actually seen these qualifications, not to mention great pay, it is slow but at a creep technology is coming back S-W-E-E-T!!!!!
Timing and positioning is everything, if you have a degree from anywhere, timing and positioning is off, that degree is not being utilized you can say it is pretty much a piece of paper.
Had another recruiter tell me that school curriculum is one thing, a person's discipline level is another, he went on to tell me that we have hired young people that have degrees but they are not dependable surely not stable.
Rule of thumb if the interviewer likes you, chances are you will make it to second base in the interview process.
I have had interviewers tell me that 40% of applicants do not make it to the interview on time let alone through the process.
Whatever UOP is doing underhanded, it will come back on them one day because the law of averages, what goes around comes around.
Thanks Appreciation, Ken
#50 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, March 19, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, March 19, 2006
However, the problem comes with a few unmentioned factors. First, UOP is a for-profit college that uses Title IV funding. The comparisons you made to the other colleges have a drastic difference from UOP in the enrollment and sales process. If a person decides to go on a diet then so be it. If a person chooses U of I or St Luis, then that is their choice. I have been through the enrollment process at a non-profit ground campus so I know that it is pretty much on the person to get through it. With UOP, the process is a selling process. Any time you place admissions into the hands of sales reps with incentive plans, you run the risk of shady business. There is a difference between choosing to go to a school, or being lied to about a school and then choosing to go to school. Having sales reps disguised as ?counselors? gives people a false impression. It is the same thing as a person claiming they are a dietician or doctor and giving someone diet tips and selling them on a diet program when they really have no expertise in that area. The buyer might be seeking self improvement, but this does not justify a sales person lying or misleading them.
My other problem is that UOP uses Title IV grants and loans which are based off of US tax dollars. I would have a problem with diet plans if people were using US tax dollars to pay for their pills. I would have even more of a problem if the people selling the pills were lying about the results just to get people to buy the pills.
I am all for self improvement, but when it comes to UOP, the means does not justify the end.
#51 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Ken - Mattoon (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, March 20, 2006
POSTED: Monday, March 20, 2006
Hello B from Phoenix….
Thanks for the information but it is all sugar and glory out there no matter what is being sold.
It translates to the end user, their investment and if they are happy with the products and service in focus.
As far as US tax dollars being used, well SSI does the same thing and there are people out there do not need SSI but they are getting it, wrongfully, my opinion.
Otherwise getting back to the issue of sugar coating and glory, I have a computer business, have had people call me to tell me they are buying a computer from a department store (can be any of them out there) they want that 299.00 special for a computer system, well they are all glory and giggle on getting that system for 299.00, they think they are getting a great deal, they will continue to ask me is it a great deal. I will tell them, it is a deal, a computer, no not of a great category.
They will not understand they will respond how your systems differ than a department store.
I will tell them that a department store is a reseller, to hold their 30% profit margin it is a no frill cheap computer because the boxed system is just another product in that store on the shelf, they want to push out the door keeping the profit margin strong, therefore they will sugar coat and hype a thrill, to glorify a product just to sell it.
I can guarantee you one thing you won't find Gigabyte, Northwood and Xeon on these off the shelf 299.00 specials.
The haunting fact of the matter is, everything works that way due to Q-public they want to see thrill in buying products and service, they want to be motivated to buy, why should I buy.
I have a video phone product that works on broadband only, now I have a hard time selling it, due to I am not hype oriented person.
If you for example were a potential customer, wanted some information on the video phone, I would give you the information you wanted with no frill, thrill just the truth on the product.
You probably would not buy because I was not thrilling, glorifying a sales pitch to sell a product.
I sold a few but VoIP is on the horizon, so it is picking up slow but I give people what they want to hear only the truth, yes the truth.
People always want to know how they can save money on their phone bill, I will tell them about the video phone and their phone bill can be $19.95 per month plus taxes and E911 that will add another 4.15 that brings the bill to 24.50 approx per month.
I attend marketing sales workshops and they are unbelievable, so far fetched, and unreal.
One particular workshop the guy jumps up to the front and so full of sh*t it was funny, a laugh, just ridiculous to say the least.
In the wind up after his intro he told the attendees that at the end of this event I will be able to sell everyone here anything I am selling, because I'm good at working with marketing and setting tone presentation to potential customers.
Well I guess I won't be rich because that is not my selling technique, I want you as a customer to be happy and satisfied with the products I have to sell.
I knew someone working at EIU several years ago, she worked in marketing she went on to tell me that enrollment that particular year was down and they were putting a marketing campaign into place to beef up enrollment for the following year. So I am sure they glorified an ad campaign so the initial statement will grab parents to send their kids to EIU for their educational experience and growth.
You stated you worked in enrollment, well your job was to sell education to working adults, and you were just doing your job.
It is out of your hands whatever upper management is doing underhanded. As far as the reorganizing and restructuring of the salary, well everyone is doing this.
It sounds like to me you're a person that wants more in life that UOP can offer so it was time to move on, everyone moves on.
Thanks Appreciation, Ken
#52 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Mari - Buford (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 28, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, March 28, 2006
For all of you guys who are complaining that University of Phoenix is a for profit school, was it not in your best interest to research before you enrolled? I did, and I knew from the very beginning what I was getting myself into. I did not choose the traditonal route, because I had been there done that in undergraduate, and for the first year of graduate school. I for one liked the flexiblity that Phoenix offered me with being able to attend school at anytime of the day I wanted. I thought the professors did a good job and the classroom discussions were actually very good to me, once people stayed on the topic at hand.
University of Phoenix was the first institution I had attended that actually introduced real world work experiences into the curriculum and discussion. At the traditonal brick and mortar college, during my first year of grad school, I sat in classes with students who were brazenly cheating on tests, talking while the professor was lecturing, strolling into class late, and couldn't even carry on an intellectual conversation on real world work issues.
I loved my experience at Phoenix. I learned from professors who were actually performing the jobs they were teaching about. Mature students in my class that actually held a job, that was a more than entry level. They were actually giving examples of how some of the theories we learned in the text applied to their everyday workplace. In most brick and mortar colleges, professors just teach the subject for years and years without actually performing it on a daily basis.
I think that is the difference that I saw at phoenix, real world practical ability, versus just learning something from a book and not really knowing how it really works in the real world. Another topic brought up by some on this foum was the fact that many professors only have a Masters degree to teach there. In some of my previous colleges, I had adjuncts for many classes and in some cases, I never even saw a professor with an actual PHD. This is going on more and more in colleges these days so it is nothing new in the teaching world. There was an article out a few years ago which stated that nearly 45% of college instructors are adjuncts. Why should Phoenix be any different by employing adjuncts?
I don't know why people are holding University of Phoenix to such a high standard to the point where every mishap is taken and used as a weapon against the University, when in reality, many traditional universities are having some of the same problems and complaints faced by Phoenix. This is the real world, and things are not going to be perfect for everyone.
To the advisor guy who quit Phoenix as a top producer, why now are you bashing phoenix? You went on to get your degree there, obviously you thought enough of it to do you schooling there, why didn't you attend an outside institution, if you know what phoenix was doing was so terrible? You state, not in these exact words, that Phoenix is a business and its all about money and quota? What institution is not concerned about funding and growing its student body. Face the facts it happens in every school for profit or not,They just go about it differently, and unless we all attend every school in America, we may not know about all the dirty politics that goes on behind the scene.
#53 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, March 28, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, March 28, 2006
....um... ...did you read the passages above? Okay, here we go.
Once again we have another person defending UOPO and asking questions that have been asked and answered. Why are you incapable of extracting the finer points of the topics? Lets address some questions that you asked.
Mari “You went on to get your degree there, obviously you thought enough of it to do you schooling there, why didn't you attend an outside institution?”
Answer: ...uh... BECAUSE THE DEGREE WAS FREE...
Mari, I really wish you would read more in depth before responding. My problem is not capitalism, or an organization existing to make profit. I have stated this repeatedly but you and others seem incapable of grasping that portion of the content. My problem with the organization stems from how they manipulate employees, lie to shareholders, and mislead customers to achieve those profits. Please look into how state funded or privately held colleges make money and compare that to a publicly traded organization with shareholders. It is not the same thing.
Traditional colleges do not have a large active sales force designed specifically to increase enrollments. Brian Muller, CEO Apollo Grp, is an egomaniacal, megalomaniac. His myopia and failure to concede to traditional business lifecycle models are the direct cause of the circumstance at UOP Online. This could not be done so he resorted to lying to shareholders, falsifying enrollment numbers, withholding employee pay, and avoiding compensation rules governing sales reps at a Title IV school, all to try and maintain share value. This is all documented either publicly through lawsuits, or privately in internal documents. The problem is that they are a billion dollar company that can buy their way out of anything.
On that alone you cannot compare the activities of UOP with that of other colleges. In addition, look through this website and see how many reports there are for traditional colleges. The majority deal with lies and manipulation of for profit colleges just like UOP. So making a comparison between UOP and other traditional campuses to justify your efforts at UOP and make yourself feel better is weak and lame. Do not bring down other higher learning institutions to make yourself feel better about the fact you wasted time and money on a lesser degree at UOP.
#54 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Mari - Buford (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
B you stated that your degree was free so you took it. What does that say about you, you are an opportunist who takes things for free, even though you claim the degree would not go far in the real world. I am not suprised that you lasted as long as you did in your advisor position, obviously it's right up your alley cheating and scamming others. I don't need to make myself feel better about Phoenix, I never needed any reassurances. I have gotten positive feedback from employers who appreciate my University of Phoenix degree. No one has every questioned me about its validity. In fact this degree has catapulted me to the top of my career by allowing me to gain promotions that ultimately gave me the financial capital to branch off and open myvery successful company. I am not putting down traditional institutions. I just simply stated that I got my undergraduate degree from a traditonal institution and I know that there are problems in any institution one may attend. University of phoenix, as you state, use shady business practices, and I can say also that other institutions do, as well, and you can't vouch for all, because you don't have access to their books. I still stand by what I said in my earlier statement, and no amount of hostility or bullying by you.. will change my mind. I am a University of Phoenix graduate, and proud of it.
#55 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
Who keeps feeding you guys after midnight? Mari, seriously, just maybe, in all your UOP wisdom you can answer this for me. Why is it the only the defenders of UOP that are incapable of reading something and extracting the information from it? I mean, did you read the thread or did you just come in here with guns blazing spouting nonsense? From the looks of your response I would say you did the second. If this was a court of law, I would object because your questions have been asked and answered, and your points are all from hearsay and conjecture. Hearsay and conjecture are very common when people do not know the facts and fill in the blanks themselves. Two common causes of this are laziness and ignorance. Which side of the fence are you on? Perhaps you straddle…
Lets start with a quote from you: “What does that say about you, you are an opportunist who takes things for free, even though you claim the degree would not go far in the real world.” Yes, I am an opportunist. Funny thing is, in your last post you talk about how all businesses are opportunistic which is not a bad thing. Now you contradict yourself in a feeble attempt to seem witty. Lame. Second, anyone who sells what they have not used is full of crap. Tuition is free for UOP employees. My profession was to sell masters degree programs, as a sales person it behooves me to know my product, therefore I took classes. I would expect that you in all your might and wisdom would know that. However, once again, you resort to a lame attempt at insulting me. If you are going to do it, please do it right. Say something witty, originall, intelligent. Make it a challenge here PLEASE.
Second Quote: “I am not surprised that you lasted as long as you did in your advisor position, obviously it's right up your alley cheating and scamming others.” Have you actually read any of the other posts? Please do because it is not worth explaining AGAIN. Seriously, the post is only a few above this one, you can read about it there, or at the beginning when I explain that I left, because things got shady there. Perhaps the concept of cause and effect is too much for you. Are you sure you have a masters from UOP? Didn't you just win yours in a raffle at work? What was the first place prize, a Quisinart? Runner up got a free masters and a year supply of flank steak. Bet ya wish you had that Quisinart, you probably would have gotten more use out of it.
Third Quote: “and I can say also that other institutions do, as well, and you can't vouch for all, because you don't have access to their books.”
You are right, I do not have access to all the other businesses in the world to see if they are shady. Lets apply some basic MBA stuff taught even at UOP and use the amazing world of statistics. I have worked for or with about 12 online colleges in my past career. UOP is the only one that is shady. 1 out of 12. That would allow me to use some deductive logic to determine that 11 colleges are not shady. Hmmm. I cannot say what EVERY institution does, but then again, statistics would have taught you that no statistical research is conducted using every possible potential sample in a large group. Sample sizes are limited, tested, and conclusions are made. So no, I cannot speak for every institution, but due to my understanding of how to conduct research, and the fact that I am not a total idiot, I can infer that not every college is shady, just because UOP is. In fact, wouldn't that be considered an outlier and therefore omitted? UOP is not the norm and if it is, everyone is screwed.
Spare us your nonsense. Either retake stats, or see if you can trade in your MBA raffle prize for something useful… …like reading comprehension or perhaps some wit.
;-) Have a nice day
#56 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Mari - Buford (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
B you want to know who is feeding me after midnight? the same person who is feeding you after midnight. Anyway You keep stating that I did not read the other posts, yes I did, but I just wanted to address YOU directly, is anything wrong with that? I did not tell you I got an MBA from phoenix, so obviously you don't read too well either. I told you I got a Masters and I don't recall mentioning that it was an MBA. It seems like the only thing you learned at Phoenix was the word Lame, because it is the one you insert when you can't find a better word to use, maybe a thesaurus can help you. Look, I am just defending Phoenix because I believe in them. I was thought at an early age to stand up for what I believe in. Why should I allow you to go on ranting about phoenix without countering you. My experience was different and positive, and I just want others to know that there are two sides to every coin. Your hostility toward everyones comments who decide to stand up against your views make me wonder if you quit, or got fired. Only a person with an ax to grind would be so hot under the collar regarding their former place of employment. I was just wondering, did you list your UOP degree on your resume to get your new job? And the next time you quote me, quote me right. I never said other institutions were opportunistic just YOU!! Using the University to get a free degree, dissing it, then using that same degree to further your career. Now tell me who is (using your favorite word) LAME???
By the way don't bother to respond because I won't be reading. I have had enough of you and frankly I am not impressed.
#57 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
...just one, but they get 3 credits for it...
Nice come back there Mari... ?The same people that are feed me are feeding you...? Come on that was LAME or if you prefer: bruised, crip, crippled, defective, deformed, game, gimp, gimpy, halt, hamstrung, handicapped, hobbling, hog-tied, limping, pained, raw, sidelined, sore, stiff... Thanks for thesaurus recommendation, but I will stick with lame because its just so suitable. You should have just tried ?I know you are but what I am?? I would say that your ego would not let you just walk away from this so I will respond even though in all your wisdom you warned me not to.
You said ?And the next time you quote me, quote me right. I never said other institutions were opportunistic just YOU!?
But earlier you said: ?What institution is not concerned about funding and growing its student body. Face the facts it happens in every school for profit or not...?
....hmmmm Put down the pipe for a sec. Are you old enough to use senility as an excuse?
I was wrong for assuming you had an MBA, obviously you do not. I am guessing MAED or MSN. Although you claim to own a business, I am guessing business is not your strong point.
You Said: Your hostility toward everyones comments who decide to stand up against your views make me wonder if you quit, or got fired. Only a person with an ax to grind would be so hot under the collar regarding their former place of employment. I was just wondering, did you list your UOP degree on your resume to get your new job?
My hostility is aimed at people who come in here defending UOP and spouting ignorance about something they know nothing about. You came at me remember?
?To the advisor guy who quit Phoenix as a top producer, why now are you bashing phoenix? You went on to get your degree there, obviously you thought enough of it to do you schooling there, why didn't you attend an outside institution, if you know what phoenix was doing was so terrible? You state, not in these exact words, that Phoenix is a business and its all about money and quota? What institution is not concerned about funding and growing its student body. Face the facts it happens in every school for profit or not,They just go about it differently, and unless we all attend every school in America, we may not know about all the dirty politics that goes on behind the scene.?
On that alone it makes me cringe that people like you are allowed to vote. The amount of crap in that paragraph alone is astounding. Amazingly, you somehow were able to ask already answered questions, ignore already provided information, and make blanket statements about other institutions while trying to defend UOP.
Did I quit or get fired? I quit. Did I put the MBA on my resume? I didnt have to, I was heavily recruited. Do I put my MBA on my resume now? Which MBA??? Isnt it obvious I run a business, how else would I find time to sit here and mess with people like you? Demented? Yes. Fun? Oh yeah.
Do I have an ax to grind? A big one. Companies like UOP erode the already fragile ethical fabric of corporate America. They misuse and mistreat employees and consumers and defraud us out of tax dollars by misuse of Title IV funding. So I really do not care that a small majority of UOP alumni support the institution because the small amount of good it might serve is no where enough to counter the bad it has done and will continue to do as long as people like you decide to ignore what it right in front of them. Again, I reminds me of the vast majority of sheep in the country who every day trade liberty for safety fail to see that they now have neither. Gotta go, my ax needs to be sharpened. By the way, you can kiss my ax...
#58 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Alemane - Bronx (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, March 30, 2006
POSTED: Thursday, March 30, 2006
When I come here I always see your a** talking about UOP this and UOP that, don't you have something else to do? Maybe like f#&%$*& your wife or something? So, you got fired din't you? And now you are mad because your little flat bu&& does not have cash, huh? Let me tell you something "LAMEY" I am taking a degree program with this OnLine university and to me it has been a great experience, so stop making UOP look bad, when the only little dirt here is you! Instead of being here 24/7 trying to get revenge because your stupid self got fired, go to the real world and find yourself a job and shut up already we are tired of your nonsense. You are hurt and we all can tell, because if you really quit you wouldn't be here crying like a baby about how unfair UOP is, so stop it already go get that good year tire off your stomach. LMAO!!!!!!!!
#59 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, March 30, 2006
POSTED: Thursday, March 30, 2006
Is this guy serious? What happened to guys like Ken who actually presented a challenge? Even Mari could put together a coherent sentence. What is LMAO? Is that an acronym? Do you know what acronym means? I have never heard that, maybe its an east coast thing. I love when people like you try to get involved because you keep re-enforcing one of my points in here that when you take someone out of their safe little world, especially ignorant folk, they tend to get upset.
Have you ever watched, or been on, Jerry Springer? Have you ever noticed that people with very low IQ's resort to insults because they are not creative or intelligent enough to defend their point or come up with something that has any type of wit?
If you are going to insult me at least do it with a little flare. Come on man, that was seriously pathetic. Let me recap this just to make sure everyone is on the same page here. Lets see, I am a fat, spare tire having, flat butt having, married but not satisfying my wife, can't hold a job, poor, little dirt, disgruntled, fired, ex-UOP employee, that is a LAMEY Cry baby LMAO. Is that about right? Did I get everything there?
Thank you. You have done more to support my point about the quality of student allowed into UOP than anything I could have written myself. The best part is that people are going to come in here and read what you wrote, and if they are thinking about taking a class at UOP, they are going to realize they let someone with your keen intellect into the program, and run far, far away. Do UOP a favor, and don't help them. If you really wanted to hurt me, you would have argued on my side and I probably would have never come in here again. I honestly had no idea the (dumb Bronx guy) stereotype could be translated through written word. Truly amazing.
I feel bad for even responding to you because I feel like I'm picking on a handicapped kid. Actually, comparing you to a handicapped kid is an insult to all the handicapped people in the world. I would make an analogy here, but my east coast friend, you are truly an original.
Please, I beg you, keep posting in here. Help me to keep proving my point.
I am just going to keep egging you on because you have officially become the poster boy for the academic product of University of Phoenix Online, and the example I needed to really dive my point home.
Fired up yet? Angry? Or maybe you'll take the (You don't bother me) route that is so popular with the intellectually challenged...
#60 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Rahul - Portland (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, March 31, 2006
POSTED: Friday, March 31, 2006
This thread is going the same way as the ITT TECH. Just search for ITT TECH and you'll see. Dumb and Crazy? You guys crack me up.
#61 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Storm - ANDOVER (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, April 02, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, April 02, 2006
Please see:
PHOENIXEDU.ORG
This ripoffreport is a great venue of educating consumers. Thank you!
Storm Gage
Andover, Massachusetts
#62 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: C - Colton (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 04, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 04, 2006
"Have you ever noticed that people with very low IQ's resort to insults because they are not creative or intelligent enough to defend their point."
This statement is followed by many insults directed against another poster. This damages your argument and credibility. Please stick to the topic "B." It is an important one.
#63 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 04, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 04, 2006
This is true, but mine are always funny and witty. Besides, if I didn't this would be boring thread.
#64 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Rahul - Portland (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 05, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, April 05, 2006
Mr. B, earlier on this trend you advised Terri to ?Go to Walden Univeristy, Strayer University, or Capella?.
My question to you is how much of a big difference does Walden, Strayer and Capella make if compared with University of Phoenix? As far as I know all of these colleges are for profit and non traditional. Students are their targets for all profit colleges.
While I was earning my associates degree and I was thinking to transfer to some university for my bachelors, two instructors told me that employer's don't like UOP degrees.
Are Walden, Strayer and Capella similar to UOP, if not then what is the HUGE Difference between all these profit colleges?
Thanks
#65 Update By Author
AUTHOR: Lloyd - Belmont (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 05, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, April 05, 2006
I am a product of UOP with a Bachelor Degree in Management. I had an interesting experience with their in-seat program, which was team based. It was a struggle every step of the way, but with determination and hard work I managed to graduate. However, I found that the UOP degree was not producing the results expected.
I then enrolled in Davenport University to obtain a Master Degree in Strategic Management. This also was not meeting my expectations, but the studies had a little of both individual work and classroom team assignments. The on-line courses still required daily postings, but had no team based studies. Not as intense as the UOP, so it was acceptable.
Now I face the challenge of the Doctorate Degree, which I have chosen Northcentral University (NCU) as the educational provider. I was impressed with their e-learning program, which does not involve team studies or postings to a virtual classroom. Students are assigned a Mentor that is to help maintain the course of study and guidance.
If I would have any suggestion, it would be to disband the UOP educational system and evaluate the Northcentral program. I find that to be more beneficial with fewer complications; plus, they are of a lower rate. Here is the new generation of distant learning that is catching on very quickly.
#66 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 05, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, April 05, 2006
One way to determine the differences between UOP and any quality online university is to check the admissions requirements. At UOP, it you have a pulse and can get financial aid, you are in. This explains a lot about the people in this thread defending UOP. This lowers the academic standard as a whole. People, who question this, let me give you an example. Everyone knows what grading on a curve means. Better students drive expectations higher for the entire class. This can work both ways. Students that could not get into any other college saturate the UOP system driving down minimum expectations and forcing facilitators to lower their class expectations.
To compound this, the UOP business model works differently than many other for profit colleges because of the promises they make to share and stakeholders. These instructors know the university needs the people to stay in class to make money and if the student fails, they usually quit. While I was there, the drop rate for students that fail their first class was 90%. That results in high quantities of lost revenue and they do not like that. This trend is extremely relevant in the masters programs.
The only admissions requirements are bachelors and 3 years work experience. This means that people who would never come close to passing the GMAT (or the SAT for that matter) are in the masters program at UOP. After attending online and ground, many of the students are just normal people that really want to learn and do well in UOP. The problem is that there are really bad students in the classes that drive down the minimum expectations. This means that even the best students leaving UOP do not have the same skill set as other graduates in different programs. Employers know this. It is not the fault of the student many times, they just dont realize they are in a bad program because they have never been in a good one.
With regards to your question about other for profit colleges. Walden for example, operates on a different business model and is under much less pressure by shareholders to rapidly increase enrollment rates. Their admissions process is much tougher and best of all, they actually deny students admissions into the program if their GPA is too low or their admissions essay is poorly written. This keeps out the riffraff and forces the academic standard higher. Cappella or Strayer, one of them anyway, is just a company that broke off and expanded from Walden.
There are also non-profit online colleges like National University in California.
Anyway, you are better off looking at one of the other colleges trying to do it right.
Hope that helps.
#67 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Kemuel - Rome City (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, April 12, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, April 12, 2006
After reading all of the negative comments about UOP, I must consider myself a lucky student. I am nearing the completion of my graduate degree and my experience at UOP has been very posititve. During the first half of the program there were those slackers in the learning teams that were annoying. However, during the second half of the program, we were allowed to form our own teams. Since that change was made, I have always been teamed with very hard working members who consistently challenged me to keep up. What a great experience.
I did notice a problem with plagerism in the first two or three classes, but those students have not been in any of my classes for several months. The vast majority of instructors have been very tough (almost to the extreme) on the citation of sources. I can only guess this has been in response to the critisism of some instructors being indifferent to the issue.
I do wish UOP would require a GMAT exam to ensure a minimum level of skill; online testing for most courses would help with understanding the course material. I will admit that I have retained more conceptual knowledge from writing all of the papers than from traditional memorization and regurgitation of trivial facts.
The graduate program is not for everyone. It greatly depends on each student's circumstances. For me, it was a perfect solution to my educational needs.
#68 Employee
AUTHOR: Matthias - Elm Str. (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, April 17, 2006
POSTED: Monday, April 17, 2006
B, I see that you used to work for the school. I work in Tech Support and I am defending the school. Does that mean I am ignorant, in your words? Tech Support does not enroll these students. We keep them here. In fact, Tech Support generate more money than any other department. This happens because we keep students enrolled. We give them the confidence to continue. The EAs dont do crap. The AAs are never available. They probably hang out most of the day talking to the cute girl in the next cube. Ive seen it before.
You wrote: "Yes, their classes are a joke. If you believe that college is about shooting emails back and forth via Outlook Express and working in "Learning Teams" then you are delusional." Being that your an MBA grad, you should know that this is real world situation. If you ever get a job in the corporate world, you will have to talk to someone in China, or India maybe. As you know, there is a big time different and if you want to land that million dollar deal, you will go by their time, not yours, so often times, you will have to close a deal at midnight. Is that fair? No.. but I bet you would not be complaining about it.
You also wrote: "At UOP, it you have a pulse and can get financial aid, you are in. This explains a lot about the people in this thread defending UOP." This is very true. But this is the enrollment dept. So, in your future bashings of the company, please narrow your hatred to certain depts. Tech Support keeps these students enrolled. You probably even had to call us, cuz you didnt know crap when you were a student.
#69 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
I never said anything bad about tech support for a reason, I thought they did a great job for the EA's that had no clue how to help a student solve technical issues or better yet, set up Outlook. Give me a break, if an EA needed you guys to set up OE or help a person turn off security features, change AOL settings, or clear their cache, then they probably shouldn't have a job there. I will take issue with the points you make because well, you are just wrong.
Your statement ” Tech Support generate more money than any other department. This happens because we keep students enrolled. We give them the confidence to continue. The EAs dont do crap. The AAs are never available. They probably hang out most of the day talking to the cute girl in the next cube. Ive seen it before.” For the most part only goes to prove my point about the interior operations issues that persist at that organization. But your statement about tech support generating more money than any other department is only your opinion and is not supported by the UOP business model. If the organization actually looked at Tech Support as part of the vital income function of the organization, the pay scale would be completely different for tech. The reason that EA's have the highest pay rate of any department including tech support and academics, is because they generate the most revenue for the organization. If that were not true, compensation plans would be different and you know it. I have a lot of friends still there and a few in tech support that were level 1 and 2. Do I think they are compensated fairly? No, but that is beside the point when you make statements like above.
All you have accomplished is segregating Tech Support from the rest of the organization as the only competent portion of business operations thus supporting some of my points in this thread. Yet you come here to argue against what you obviously agree with me on. So I wont say you are an idiot, just confused. You might not be an idiot because you realize that there is a problem with the place, but dumb enough to think that you can compartmentalize the issues and keep tech support segregated from the rest of the problems. Sorry, but the problem is systemic and the reason tech support deals with so much crap is because the organization does not care about their students or the academic prowess.
I will also take issue with the point you make here: (you should know that this is real world situation. If you ever get a job in the corporate world, you will have to talk to someone in China, or India maybe. As you know, there is a big time different and if you want to land that million dollar deal,) All I can say is that if you are a computer guy you most likely do not have a whole lot of sales experience. If you do, you would realize that technology and the net will never replace closing a deal person to person. All the intangible things that come with person to person or voice to voice contact are what is important. Regardless of what you think, something is lost in translation when you deal strictly with the virtual world. This is why so many other online colleges have invested the time and money into developing a more interactive and enthralling course system. Outlook is outdated and just a bad way to go to school. The only reason UOP keeps it is because it would be too hard and cost too much to change to something else. Do you remember when they tried to move all the master students to the new server system in 2004? Were you even there? It was a disaster. They had to move them all back on the old one.
So you can make assumptions about my technical prowess and try to insult me, but once again, you have only served to prove my point here. So for future reference, you need to understand your own argument before you engage someone who understands your argument better than you do. Plus, don't argue points or make statements contrary to what is obvious. All the points you made about tech support generating the most income and OE being a great way to go to college are discredited by the facts that UOP doesn't pay tech support the same way they pay sales, and other colleges have not adapted the learning system that the company which pioneered online learning has used for the last 20 years. Nice try though.
#70 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Robert - Albuquerque (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
Lloyd,
Is the NCU you are talking about in Minneapolis? Isn't this mainly a biblical school? Additionally the rate may be a bit lower ($402/per credit vs $475/per credit) but there are also student and technology fees that raise annual costs by about $800. Also these costs do not include books. So a 30 credit academic year for an undergraduate student runs about $12860 and this is if you are taking classes at the campus itself. Again, this cost does not include books. At UOP 30 credits would run about $14950 for a year with books.
I could not find any information on their online program at NCU. Is there an additional cost to take classes online?
#71 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Mike - Longview Texas (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
Ok I never went there, do not plan on going there, so why do I feel they suck only cause I had to by a dang firewall because they will constantly use netsend (or did at one time) to splash your screen with dang recruitment adds.
#72 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Anita - Marblehaed (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 18, 2006
I was planning to sign up for an online course. I was very happy at the beginning. My dream was going to become a reality, since I am house wife and a mouther. So, now I feel like somebody just went crashing my dream with a wood stick. What I gonna do now? I am stuck, between reality, that is scary, and my dream, that is very nice. Honestly, I think that this school is very, very good, and the people that work there are strong, motivated and succesuful. I like that. I did talk to the people there, they seem to be very nice. I like to be a student there. There is no perfect world. But advice - dont try to crush my dream! Yhank you!
#73 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Lloyd - Belmont (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, April 20, 2006
POSTED: Thursday, April 20, 2006
Northcentral University has a much lower tuition rate and there are no team-based learning or postings. All work is individual effort working with a Mentor. Everyone having UOP problems should really take a second look. (ncu.edu)
#74 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Robert - Albuquerque (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, April 21, 2006
POSTED: Friday, April 21, 2006
Lloyd,
I checked out NCU and the credit rate is about $100 less per credit. They are accredited by the NCA. However the type of programs they have seem limited to Business, Psychology and Education (Graduate Level). I was hoping they would be a bit more diverse. I suppose with the limitation on the amount of programs to offer they can offer a more focused study environment on those subjects.
The B.B.A. program seems a bit limited in concentrations compared to what is offered at UOP. They even allow you to pick and choose classes if you don't want a concentration, ala Burger King (have it your way).
#75 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Marilyn - Irving (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, April 21, 2006
POSTED: Friday, April 21, 2006
Permit me to tell of my experience with UOP. In my twenties, I went to a private Catholic Liberal Arts College in KY and obtained an AA in Accounting. That was a quarter of a century ago. Out of the 79 credits, 66 transferred to UOP. Since the degree was so old, I was impressed. My Enrollment Advisor, Demetrius, was exceptional. He stayed in touched with me throughout my entire time at UOP. He did show sincere concern with my success. The instructors, with an exception of a few, were very knowledgeable, and very strict with grading. The team concept also seemed to work well for me. At the beginning there were a few freeloaders, but after about the 4th course, they dropped out for one reason or another, and I really developed some valuable team-coping skills that I use in my job today.
My Degree transferred quite nicely to Dallas Baptist University in pursuit of my MBA, and all credits were honored (except the GEN classes, which I was told by Demetrius would not transfer from the beginning). My employer (USPS) recognized my degree and promoted me accordingly. Academically speaking, I am very pleased with UOP. If it had not been around, I probably would not have returned to school. At 50, I am currently pursuing my MBA at DBU—thanks to my success at UOP.
Now for the “sour!” I said that Demetrius was “exceptional” because I found the administrative staff (with the exception of Demetrius) to be inept, immature, incompetent, and intolerable! It was obvious that they were herding people in for the first year tuition with no thought as to whether or not one was college material. That is the reason after a few courses you did not see the ones that should not have been there in the first place. To permit people who could not even compose a basic sentence into an intense, fast-paced program like UOP, well that is terrible and indefensible!
Next, the academic counselors were horrible. I am the type who reads the fine print of everything. If it had not been for that, my academic-counselor-of-the-month would have had me taking many classes that did not pertain to my degree. For the entire two years, I had to re-align my courses at least three different times to keep from taking unnecessary classes or missing too many days in-between classes. I found that to be very frustrating. The good thing is that I was forced to experience the Flex-net and the expensive On-line classes. I say that it was a “good” thing because it made me appreciate the On-ground classes, even more.
At Demetrius' advice, at the completion of every course, I checked my “Student Program Summary” that is found on the UOP Student Web. I knew from course-to-course were I was in my degree plan. So I did not fall victim to “surprise” courses toward the completion of my degree. But it sure would have been better if one of my many Academic Counselors had hipped me to this monitoring tool.
The ever-changing financial counselors were just as bad. I wanted to take a leave-of-absence. I was told by the FC to just take off for a month and upon return, I would be able to just pick up where I left off. I was told that they would hold my loan and grants on my account for at least 60 days. If I did not return in 60 days, then the excess over the classes that I had already took, would be returned to the financial institute and I would be in good standing financially with UOP. Again, it was Demetrius, that warned me about the financial trap that the rest of you had experienced. He also walked me through the complicated procedure of getting a leave-of-absence granted. My financial advisors were not worth spit!
That is why I am now going to DBU. The integrity of their staff is much more superior to UOP. None the less, I still take ownership of my education and stay as informed as I can be. Also, DBU have an on-line program, but I mix it up with the on-ground and mini-courses (for variety).
I would not discourage anyone from going to UOP. However, heed this caveat, that if you do go, be VERY aware of every little detail. Read the student handbook, thoroughly (which you will have to get off the student's web site since your academic advisor will not give you one). Count up the cost, financially and time-wise, before you start. It is sort of like swiming across a lake—you can't get halfway across and then lose strength—you'll drown. Chances are you may not be as blessed as I was to get a wonderful EA, like Demetrius, so vigilant.
By the way, I re-read this and it sounds like I am “sweet” on Demetrius. No, he is the age of my grandchildren and I am happily married to an older man that thinks that I am a “young chick.” Oh well, that's another story for another message board. :-)
#76 Employee
AUTHOR: Beau - Ellicott City (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 25, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 25, 2006
As an instructor at UOP, I can tell you that there is a lot more to the program than this angry person who evidently did not perform to snuff and was let go. Simply read the report. This person claims to have a master's degree, but cannot write or spell properly. The author has subject/pronoun agreement problems, fails to punctuate, spells words incorrectly ("lively hood" for "livelihood" and "loose" for "lose," for example). The author fails to understand the accreditation process (see one of the earlier rebuttals for details) and misstates the course requirements as "shooting emails back and forth via Outlook Express and working in 'Learning Teams' . . ."
Clearly, the author's experience may be as s/he describes, as the author's work product clearly shows that the author did not obtain a master's education, but that appears to be the author's failing and ignorance rather than the program.
The author excuses his illiteracy by calling those who would point them out "tards," which is either a misspelling of "turds" or a misspelling of the slang for "retards" as "'tards;" either way, the egg appears to be on the author's face, who hides behind an initial (could it be because s/he broke the law in the alleged actions as a UOP employee?)
The bottom line is that one considering the UOP should give this author's report the credibility it demonstrates it possesses - little or none, as a rant by a disgruntled employee.
Please note that we faculty are independent contractors with UOP and not employees. I get no compensation for posting what I believe on this site, and UOP doesn't even know I have done this. I teach there because I believe in the program. I have options to teach elsewhere, but believe UOP works - except, it appears, when one puts little or no effort into it, as this author apparantly did. So, it is no surprise to me that when the author applies "to professional organizations, they laugh." I am sure that the author's presentation is as error-filled as is this report.
Finally, I note the blanket statement, "the people who defend this place have no clue what they are talking about." Ignoring the fact that it ends in a preposition, it demonstrates a total failure of critical thinking (all opposed to the author's views are stupid) and sounds dangerously close to paranoia, but I'll leave that for the DSM IV-R to diagnose.
I'll say this for the report. It demonstrate's the author's inadequacies much more than it does any on the part of the University, except for a lack of quality in who it hires as enrollment counselors.
#77 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, April 25, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, April 25, 2006
Not gud spellher, Beau rite, me stooped. Must be beccuz I wint to UOP.
I was unaware there would be a grammar test.
Take it easy there buddy! Oops there was another grammatical error with the use of “there”. But guess what? Why don't you read through the posts in here, no one is trying to submit and APA formatted paper. If you are a true professor at UOP then I doubt you would even take the time to be in here. Much like the Republican GOP you are trying to use smoke and mirrors here to detract from the real issue. Somehow you are hoping that attacking my “ability” or “desire” to edit my rebuttals will render the truths contained in those rebuttals void. That is just like trying to get the American public to focus on gay marriage and terrorism so they ignore the fact that they are getting screwed and lied to by political officials. I write these posts and do not “proof” them for spelling or grammatical errors, but that does not negate the fact that I am right about the conduct and actions of UOP. I could right in crayon and put “like, ya know” after every sentence and you still can't take away the lawsuits, dysfunctional turnover, low academic standard, and student drop rates at UOP. I get my point across rather well, enough to light a spark under you! If you are an instructor then I am flattered that you took the time to actually read through this. Thanks, get back to work!
You will not find a place in this thread that I tell you I majored in English Lit. If you are going to pick apart the grammatical structure of a thread like this then at least keep it consistent and do it to everyone professor spells-a-lot. And by the way, if you are going to lecture others on spelling and grammar, at least edit your own crap. I normally do not do this because everyone makes spelling mistakes and obviously you are not immune. Why don't you go back and read your post again and pull out Webster's. (Apparently) is spelled with an “e” not an “a” and you also spelled demonstrate's wrong. Since you came in here spouting off superior grammatical capacity, you should probably show that you actually retain that capacity. Does this mean that all the points you just made are invalid because you can't spell either?
I could take the same route as you here and pretend like your entire point is invalid because you screwed up a couple of words. Unlike you I will admit that your points about my spelling and grammar are valid, but what you try to prove by using those points is unrelated. As an instructor, you should recognize when someone is trying to validate a point with completely unrelated information. That is called speculation and conjecture and will not stand the litmus test. You make the correlation that lack of editing somehow equals invalid points on my part. I could tell by your writing that you obviously have an intellect. Because of that you should know better. So save the smoke and mirrors routine. I am sure you will submit a rebuttal and I am sure you will use spell check this time but I think we can safely say that it is a little too late now because you already look like a fool.
I really can't believe you tried to lecture someone about spelling and didn't even edit your own writing. Now you understand what I meant when I said people who point out other people's spelling errors are “tards”. You proved my point nicely.
#78 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Frank - Clovis (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, April 28, 2006
POSTED: Friday, April 28, 2006
...read your comments and couldn't agree more. UOP/Amway/Don DuPre/Dave Del Dotto/Jim Jones Peoples Temple are the precursors to a delusional cult, Apollo Group, which actually believes they are getting an education. And, like Amway, the guys at the top are making huge sums of money while the students puke the mantra: hare,hare...Amway,Amway,...Apollo, Apollo...soon, the UOP faithful will be hangin' out at the airport, wearing robes, and pimping the weak and poor chumps who buy off on Apollo BS.
Why are there no rip-off reports regarding Stanford, UCLA, Georgia, Texas, Cornell, Colorado, Berkeley? Why only Apollo?
...hare,hare...krishna,krishna
#79 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Robert - Albuquerque (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, April 28, 2006
POSTED: Friday, April 28, 2006
Frank,
I just love how you spout off that hare krishna stuff. That is so original. As to your question for why there are no ripoff reports for those other schools. I think you can attribute this to the fact that the schools you listed are state funded, not private institutions.
Now if you do a search for private for-profit institutions like Devry, ITT, Capella, Kaplan, AIU, Strayer... you will find that there are a great deal of complaints against all of these schools. Another factor is the number of students enrolled at these schools. The fewer the number of students, the fewer the complaints. AIU and UOP seem to have the largest number of complaints compared to any other schools, but they also have the largest student body.
What do all these schools have in common? They cater to working adults who have either failed or have been otherwise unsuccessful in the past towards pursuing their educational goals. They allow anyone to have a chance to go to school and are not limited by space. They don't use placement exams to weed people out that don't meet the expectations.
They also seem to attract a large amount of people that do not take responsibility for their actions. For the schools I listed above, education is a business. You can still learn and get an accredited degree, but you have to be willing to make sacrifices for it.
I personally do not like the learning team aspect, but I have learned to live with it. My brother is enrolled in the MSEM program at CSULB and he is required to work with learning teams in an online environment.
Another factor that I see is that the majority of complaints are about financial aid. I have yet to see anyone complain when their company is paying for school, military is paying for school or if they are using their Veteran's benefits to pay for school. A great deal of the complaints also seem to generate when the students fail a class while they are using financial aid. Who in their right mind would pay for a failed class? NO ONE other than the student who failed the class.
#80 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Frank - Clovis (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, April 29, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, April 29, 2006
...No ripoff reports against Stanford, Harvard, Cornell, Pepperdine, Loyola, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical (which is at every Naval/Air Force Facility)...lots of folks have paid for and flunked out of these schools...
There are many posts from vets against UOP--using their GI Bill.
It's not about accountability. It's about credibility.
Robert, you still haven't answered me here...are you a UOP employee? Yes or no?
Hare krishna!
#81 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Robert - Albuquerque (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, April 29, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, April 29, 2006
I never identified myself as an employee so I don't know where you got that from. Like I said I just happen to thoroughly read anything I sign am required to sign. I keep copies of all my documentation and have all the websites that the counselors told me to go to when I first enrolled in my favorites. I've been burned in the past and now I am always skeptical about any new venture. I don't play the stock market because of this so I couldn't speak intelligently about UOP's stock.
#82 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Robert - Albuquerque (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, April 29, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, April 29, 2006
..but UOP is. For better or worse, the schools are different.
As far as your comment about veterans making complaints against UOP, I ran a search on this site using the following keywords:
"Military" - 15+ pages which I wasn't about to go through
"University of Phoenix military" - no posts found
"veteran" - 19+ pages found mostly with reference to how the VA itself is ripping off veterans
"University of Phoenix veteran" - no posts found
"GI bill" - No posts found
"University of Phoenix GI Bill" - no posts found
A great deal of students who complain may be veterans and don't mention it. However, you have to admit the majority of complaints come from people who used financial aid and failed a class. Then they expect financial aid to cover them. That is the bottom line.
As a veteran myself I found the help I was given by their military division to be outstanding. I was able to transfer in 42 credits towards my degree. I knew right off the bat that my GI Bill would not kick in until I started class. For a great deal of veterans this is like a Catch-22 that can hinder us from starting school. That is why I used Financial aid to act as a cushion to get started. I then used my GI Bill to start paying off the loans early. Why you ask? Because I tend to be very responsible towards my debts.
Once I graduate I will be out of GI Bill but I still have Vocational Rehab available from my service related injury, (thank the PVA for that) so I can go on to pursue my Master's. I'm not sure if I will contnue with UOP for my Master's yet, I am still looking for a school that is online and I won't have to put up with teams.
#83 Employee
AUTHOR: James - Tempe (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, May 07, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, May 07, 2006
While I think that B may have some anger issues, and could be far more persuasive by not insulting everyone who defends the University, he does have valid points.
I have worked for the University of Phoenix, in their Axia College division for more than a year now, and I have seen first hand that the university is very hypocritical and acts unethically on a regular basis. I am an academic counselor.
Of the three primary customer service jobs (academic counselors, finance counselors, and enrollment counselors), academic counselors are the only employees required to have a bachelor's degree. If you call University of Phoenix and talk to an enrollment counselor, that person will tell you all about the value of a bachelor's degree. The school itself, in all of its media, almost guarantees that someone with a bachelor's degree will make more money. Yet, academic counselors, who are required to have a bachelor's degree, start out making $3000 less per year than enrollment counselors, and only $2000 more than finance counselors, neither of whom are required to have any degree, and often are not even required to have any college experience. This is so extremely hypocritical of this university. The reality is that the ability to sell education, and not having an education itself, it way more important to that organization. Your enrollment counselor may tell you anecdotes about being in college, but those anecdotes are often just lies from people who have never had a single college class.
If a person started a program with Axia and finished a bachelor's degree with University of Phoenix, that student would have an outstanding loan of about $42,000. (60 credits at Axia times $265 per credit hour tuition, plus 60 credits at UOP at $460 per credit hour.) With what the university pays me, for having my bachelor's degree, there is NO WAY I could pay that much money off in the 10 year period that students are given. They say that a degree has value, but in that organization it does not.
If you have gone to the University of Phoenix or Axia, and wonder why you are always getting a new academic counselor, you know now. They spent time and energy earning a degree, that the organization claims is valuable, and yet never get paid for having one. For most academic counselors, the job is temporary from the start. It is just something to pay the bills until they can get into an organization that does respect their education. Those who do stick around for any period of time, stop taking their jobs seriously. If you are getting bad service, that is why. They have no commitment to the school, and just want to sit in their chairs getting paid to do as little work as possible.
This attitude also stems from the measures of success. For enrollment counselors, it is all based on numbers. Their pay can increase or decrease dramatically based on how many people they enroll. Enrollment counselors will, and do, lie to get people into class. They do use high pressure tactics and will enroll ANYONE. If someone drops, it does not count against them, they just lose credit for the registration, so it is always worth it to throw the dice and see if the person will make it. I have heard numerous enrollment counselors say that they doubt their students will make it, but enroll them anyway.
One of my enrollment counselor's enrolled a student who had been in special education his whole life. I saw an essay that this student wrote before we enrolled him, and I told my enrollment counselor that the student would never succeed. The enrollment counselor agreed with me, but said, "I need the reg (registration)for March." He was puffing up his numbers, knowing this student would fail. This student did fail, and wound up owing like $1700. He was barely making ends meet as it was, and when all this hit, he was on the verge of committing suicide. His enrollment counselor had something of a conscience and wired the guy $20 because he had not eaten in days.
For that student, he or she is taking on a huge financial responsibility. The phrase that counselors use all the time is, "for no out-of-pocket costs". This means that if a student succeeds the student loan will cover the cost. They do not always talk about having to pay that loan back later. They also fail to mention what happens if a student fails. Suddenly there is an immediate out-of-pocket cost that my students simply cannot afford. These counselors are hurting their students financially, because they want to succeed financially. In my opinion, that is not how a university should operate.
Academic counselors, however, are held responsible for every student who drops. It affects our measures and our ability to get raises. We have no authority to deny a student admissions, and yet if the student fails, we are failures. Since enrollment counselors will enroll anyone with pulse, the system is set up so that we fail. It could very likely be a cost saving measure by the school, but I cannot say for sure.
There is also a "qualifying center". This is a relatively new part of the university. These people make the initial phone calls anytime someone clicks on a banner ad on the Internet. It is their job to determine who qualifies to go to school, and then transfer them to enrollment counselors. They, however, are measured on how many live bodies they get transferred to enrollment counselors. With that in mind, they will transfer anyone who they get on the phone. Jr. High students are transferred to enrollment counselors all the time, and since those new "leads" as they call them are potential students getting registered, the very measures of success for one department are setting up another department for failure. Being able to take these qualifying center calls is an enrollment counselor's bread and butter. Getting a Jr. High student or someone without a GED or High School Diploma is a huge failure for them. Yet, the company has endorsed this way of doing business. Each department's measure is designed so that other departments fail. I have had a major ethical dilemma with working for the university for a long time now.
Having worked with student's as long as I have, I can tell you that there are a lot of bad instructors at the university. For many of them, it is an easy way to earn an extra paycheck, and they do not take it seriously. One of my students taking a math class had her instructor post a message the first day about how she was a "facilitator" and not a "teacher". This was her way of telling students that she was not going to help them much. This student complained that her instructor would never answer any questions directly and doubted that the instructor even had a background to teach math.
Instructors are supposed to have office hours for 20 hours a week at Axia. They are supposed to be by a phone and be able to answer questions. I get students calling me all the time, however, saying that they call and call and call, and never get an answer. Often students call, nearly yelling, saying that for as much at they are paying, the instructors ought to be in there helping them.
This is where B does have great point. Instructors at Axia get around $2000 to teach a 9 week class. With them having to have 20 office hours a week, for 9 weeks, that works out to about 11 dollars an hour for someone with a Master's degree and at least two years experience in his/her field. With students paying $795 per class, it only takes 2.5 students to pay the instructors. The university usually has 15-20 students per class. There are, of course, other expenses, but I agree with B that probably there is a profit margin of 50% with Axia, probably higher for University of Phoenix, whose tuition is $1380 per class. It is no wonder that many instructors blow off their responsibilities. I will admit there are some very good instructors, but they are an exception to the rule.
Student's often do not understand the assignments, and the university does not provide detailed examples. When student's ask the instructors, often their response is, "read the syllabus." The students have often done that and still do not understand. Madeline Hunter was a leader in Educational Theory, who said that effective teachers do give examples, more complex examples, and non-examples. The school obviously does not subscribe to her theories of teaching. In addition, all of the syllabi at Axia are standard. Every course with the same title, and every assignment in those courses are exactly the same. There is really no independent thought to be had there. The instructors may be considered professionals, but they do not get the chance to apply their own knowledge. The curriculum is set for them. The assignments are, in my opinion, generated by people who cannot communicate clearly what they want, and when students misunderstand the assignments, they get penalized. Since the instructor did not create the assignments, they often have no way to explain what is being requested. From a purely educational perspective, it is complete pedagogical bologna. It is NOT worth the amount of money that students pay.
The primary goal of the University of Phoenix is to make money. That is the absolute truth. It comes first and foremost above everything else. Decisions are made first based on the financial well being of the company. Since I have been there, I have seen the quality of the company's benefits decline. The company's 401 K matching is only 15% of what the employee puts in. The stock purchase plan went from 85% of market value to 95% of market value. This is all in spite of record growth, or so the school claims.
The school's integrity, the quality of education, the quality of instructors, curriculum, and service, come only second to profitability. It is just not the way that a school should operate. University of Phoenix is unethical. It pushes on the edge of violating the law, but because of their crafty approach, they have been able to avoid any real penalties. But I encourage anyone to choose a different school. Most community colleges and state schools offer online programs whose primary focus is education, learning, and the pursuit of knowledge. The cost will always be less, and you will likely not be lied to.
And, yes, I am a disgruntled employee. I have to get up every morning knowing that I am working for an unethical organization, and I loath myself for doing it. Due to some personal reasons, I cannot quite say good-bye to the university right now. The flexibility I have, to come and go as I please, is a necessity that I cannot do without just now.
#84 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: R - SM (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 13, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, May 13, 2006
I just applied to the BSB/Management program at UOP. I also signed the promissory note with one of their preferred lenders and had the university receive my loan. I haven't started because I told them I would like to start not until two more months. After reading all of these I realized I don't want to attend there. What can I do now? I only emailed my advisor telling her that I don't want to attend anymore. But in regards with the bank loan what do I do? Since i electronically signed the promissory note, does that mean that I will get the loan and UOP will take it or what? I'm so confused!!!! Please help as soon as possible! Thanks.
#85 Employee
AUTHOR: James - Tempe (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 13, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, May 13, 2006
R,
You are not in too deep yet. You can call whatever lender you chose and cancel your loan. The student loan money will typically not be sent until you actually post into class. If you call, however, and let your lender know that you have changed your mind, they should be able to get the money back, if they have sent it to the school.
The university will charge you for the application fee. When you enrolled, you probably signed a memorandum of understanding, stating that the university would waive the application fee if you successfully completed your first class. Since you did not do this, your finance counselor will be calling you wanting to collect that from you. If you ask to speak to a manger, and say that you were misled by your enrollment counselor (you may have to argue a bit) you could get the school to write that off.
Good luck.
#86 Employee
AUTHOR: Donald - La Crescenta (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, May 14, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, May 14, 2006
I used to work at the online campus in Phoenix as a Financial Advisor before moving to the ground Campus in Pasadena, California.
Unless you actually start classes and make attendance for the first week, we can't send the paperwork off to be processed. That's the reason it takes so long to get recieve the money in the first place. We have to show that you are actually in attendance during the first week or we have to cancel everything. So as long as you tell us that that you want to drop out then we have to cancel everything. The only thing you owe is the application fee of $45.
Ask your enrollment counselor for an Official Withdrawal form too by the way. Once you send it to us, I would ask your enrollment counselor to sign the bottom and date it acknowledging that you recieved it. Your paperwork should be filled out as Financial Aid - primary, Cash - secondary. If it is not then it could come back to bite you as most of the reconciliation on accounts is done automatically with oversight by us the Financial Advisors. We are human and can make mistakes though.
Check your account summary and payment/reciept history on your student website to ensure that all the amounts are correct. If they aren't, call up the Financial Advisor responsible for your account and get the issue clarified asap. Contrary to popular belief, logging on to your student website does not charge you any money or make you responsible for fees to attend the school. Your application fee covers the cost to create and maintain your account on the student website. You can get alot of information from there so I encourage anyone to logon there and get needed information to help substantiate their complaints.
Lastly, just because you are an online student does not mean that you can't go to a local ground campus to help get an issue resolved. Granted, we can't address complaints about enrollement misleading students for instance. However, we at the ground campuses can help clarify financial issues and most academic issues. Sometimes it's nicer to have a face to face conversation to get an issue resolved and I am always happy to oblige.
#87 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Brian - Joplin (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, May 16, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Hello everyone,
I ran into this report quite by accident and I am very thankful for it. I just hope that people are still reading and responding to this thread.
I have just begun my second set of classes at UoP. I have been wary about the school as I noticed that the assignments were rather simple, so are most of the students for that matter. However, I figured that since these were the first classes, it might be typical to start out with an easier syllabus. After reading this thread, I have come to the realization that all the classes are simple and not designed to provoke any quality learning.
I am now wondering how easily I will be able to get out of this school. I intend to transfer,
I figure that I should finish the second set of classes so that financial aid will pay for them. If I were to leave after that, would I likely leave without owing UoP? I am hesitant to ask UoP about this issue, fearing that they will try to screw me.
Sorry in advance for any grammatical, spelling, and punctuation errors.
#88 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Douglas - Fairfax (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, May 16, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, May 16, 2006
B,
I currently have my Bachelor's degree from an accredited ground university. I am currently trying to get my Master's but, because of time constraints, I am looking to receive my degree online from a credible institution. Anyway, I am typing this post because I noticed that you mentioned Strayer University as a valid place to receive an online diploma. I have an interview there in two days and I was wondering if you could give me any information about SU that might help me make the decision of whether or not I should go there. I couldn't find any rip-off reports that suggested there are any big problems with receiving your degree here; only a couple financial aid complaints with a few campuses that are nowhere near the campus that is closest to me. Anyway, any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
#89 Employee
AUTHOR: Donald - La Crescenta (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, May 17, 2006
Brian,
Since you elected to choose financial aid then you have an obligation to complete 24 credits in one year. Whether it be at UOP or another school, you are required to complete those 24 credits using the loan money that you have been certified for.
As far as your assumption about completing the second set of classes to be sure you can get your financial aid, this is somewhat true. You need to give the DOE enough time to certify and have the money sent to the school so that funds are on the account before you withdraw. If you leave before the money is on account then you risk not having your loan certified and in effect you will be responsible for the cost of the first two classes.
What I would recommend is that you complete this second class so that you give enough time for the money to be disbursed on your account. Request a break of 4 weeks and start researching where you want to transfer to. Go to the FAW website at faw.phoenix.edu and log in. Download the form for the Authorization to Apply funds. Select NO to all four questions and sign it. Send this form in to your Finance counselor. They will then be forced to issue a check for the full amount on your account for the money you were certified for. Use that money that you will be given (grant and loan money) to enroll at the school you plan to transfer to. Once you are enrolled at the other school, call your lender to have them transfer the next disbursement to the new school. Once all this is done make sure you fill out a withdrawal form with UOP.
If you decide to do this any other way you may risk in having to wait a great deal of time for UOP to send the money back to the lender and then transfer it to the other school. The Authorization to apply funds form gives you control of your money.
***Just an FYI for newly enrolled students, this form must have YES checked on all four questions or you will not recieve a deferment on the cost of the first few classes.***
#90 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Bruce - Cordova (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, May 19, 2006
POSTED: Friday, May 19, 2006
B,
I'm a student in the UOP MBA/HRM program and have mixed feelings about the whole program. If I knew in the beginning what I know now and if I had I known about this web site, I would not have attended the university—the facts are overwhelming against the organization. But I'll not cry over spilled milk. The points you make are well taken and you articulated them very well. About the accreditation—one of the points I understand you make is that the University itself is accredited but the business programs (school) are not, I'm I correct?
#91 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 20, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, May 20, 2006
Bruce,
School of Business is accredited through the Higher Learning Commission and the North Central Association. What it lacks is AACSB accreditation. Basically, reputable companies and institutions of higher learning value the AACSB because it creates a baseline for academics standards by students coming into the program because they must pass the GMAT. There are still other reputable colleges both online and ground that do not choose to comply with AACSB but they use other admissions standards to screen applicants. UOP has no such filter in place. This causes an inverse academic curve where the ?undesirable? applicants are allowed into the program. Time usually filters these people out as you will notice if you continue on through the degree. You will see the learning teams and the class environment improve as you approach your last few classes as most of the idiots drop out. The problem is that when you pay $1600 for a class, they should never be there in the first place and some of them still make it through and into the workforce. Thus, a hiring manager that interviews these idiots with UOP masters degrees, cannot help but have a bias against the quality of applicant with UOP on their resume. You should just decide based on what you want to do after you complete the degree.
My advise to you? Try to transfer to Walden. They have a tougher admissions process to enter the program, you have to write an admissions essay and your GPA from your undergraduate degree will need to be at least a 3.0 depending on your professional history.
Good Luck.
#92 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 20, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, May 20, 2006
Douglas,
I looks like Im a little late getting back to you here. I hope your interview went well. Anyway, they should have been able to explain everything to you. If I remember correctly their masters program in business in right around $19K which is a pretty good price considering the quality of the degree. If you have concerns I would look at Walden or Northcentral University depending on how you plan on paying. If you are planning on student loans, use Walden, if you have tuition assistance with your company, use NCU. Both are great programs that I can speak from experience with. If you decide to stick with Strayer you should be okay.
Good luck
#93 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Douglas - Fairfax (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, May 23, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, May 23, 2006
B,
I interviewed with Strayer, and it went real well. Thanks. I was pretty pleased with the way the AC presented the school. He seemed real genuine and did not talk to me like he was trying to sell me a used car. Because of this, I have decided to work on my Master's there while I am working at my new job. This proves that there are reputable online schools out there that don't have 5,000 lawsuits against them and 8 million consumer complaints. Thanks for this thread!
#94 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Amris - Vandenberg AFB (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, May 26, 2006
POSTED: Friday, May 26, 2006
Hi, I read many of your arguments why UOP is not credible such the academics are substandard and that the teachers are a joke. I also have read many peoples responses
stating that they went to normal community colleges and universities where you actually had to study for test and things of that nature. I also went to community college where I got my AA degree in addition to attending another college. I graduated with honors too, but when I go to the store that sells coffee, I still have to pay my quarter to get some if you get what I am trying to say. Furthermore, I have also attended UOP. For those of you that believe that there is no academic credibility at UOP let me ask you this. If you went to a community college (like I did) and constantly study for tests by memorizing the answers and then you forget them two weeks better, then how do you believe you are better educated then someone who had discussions with teachers and other students about their real life experiences about the subjects they are learning ? I can guarantee those of you that took many tests through your college days could not pass 75% of them if you were to take them again. Furthermore, most of the tests probably do not apply to your careers now. However, I can tell you I can remember most of the discussions I had pertaining to what we were learning about. They also pertain to my current job, which means I am using my education that I learned at UOP.
However, my main point is a degree is a degree. If you go on to the county websites, where they have the majority of the best paying job for the average person, they require you to take a test against whoever else wants to test for the job, and if a degree is the minimum requirement, then they do not care where you got your degree as long it is accredited. A good woman I work with got her degree from Stanford University, which is a prestigious university in my eyes. According to all the supervisors and co-workers that I work with, I do the job ten times better then her and my degree came from a community college. Obviously, in the job world, where you get your degree from does not matter once you are hired. However, it just goes to show you that you get your degree from Stanford but does not mean you are more qualified then the next person who might of got a degree from UOP. In addition, someone said the teachers are a joke at UOP. My last teacher was a judge, go ahead and tell him that to his face. We must remember that getting a degree shows an employer that you have the ability to learn. So if you got your degree or degrees from somewhere else besides UOP (like I did), do not try to discredit UOP. We all should know that good years of job experience coupled with education are the main things any manager is looking for. Any thoughts?
#95 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Sean - Tampa (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 27, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, May 27, 2006
I have always felt (and perhaps I am wrong) that the UOP is a bogus university, even if it does have the same accredited status as others I would consider legit. I worked very hard to get into my MBA program, and when people compare their degree from the UOP to mine, I do feel a little frustrated. However, someone commented earlier stating that "you get out of something what you put into it", and I firmly agree. So to all of you currently enrolled, I suggest you finish the program and move on.
You can always try another program later, but don't give up on something you've already started. You will NOT be laughed out of any building for finishing something you started. To all of you considering the UOP, I will say that you should not be intimidated by other schools that require more credentials when considering admission. If it's the online program that makes it so attractive, don't forget that many other schools are offering this same program as well. That is all I have to say.
#96 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, May 27, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, May 27, 2006
Amris, you are entitled to your opinion, I can agree with some points but I take issue with others. It is true that a common adult learns better through theory and application as their brain structure changes through maturity. Adults require a context of application to process the information they have been given. If they cannot place the information into a useful real-world scenario, they sometimes have a hard time retaining that information.
Children and undergraduate students typically do not retain an associative reference point by which they can apply any real-world experience to. They do retain a higher capacity for memorization and therefore are taught differently. The best educators bridge the gap between the two. Let me give you an example of why UOP fails terribly with their one sided approach. I had the displeasure of taking Statistics 500 level for my masters at UOP and the pleasure of taking Statistics 500 at Walden for my other masters. UOP takes the real world approach and provided many discussions about how stats might be used in a real world scenario. Yes, the equations were included but students without a strong background in stats could not keep up with the rest of us because the online format is not conducive to teach anything that requires memorization and unfortunately, finance, accounting and statistics require memorization of equations. UOP's approach fails terribly at teaching this when compared to the rigorous approach Walden took with their courses which used both theory and application, as well as testing. On this point alone, a degree is not just a degree. Taking a single approach to all subject matter in a program is one of the differences that stratifies academic programs.
I will agree with you that the name of a college does not always mean a higher quality of candidate for employment. I have said this throughout the thread, in many programs just like in life, you only get out of it what you put into it. The problem with UOP is that some students exert a great amount of effort into learning and are therefore actually qualified. This is in no part due to the academic rigors at UOP. It is an individual choice and I can tell you that someone who exerts a great amount of effort and someone who skids by at UOP will both graduate with a relatively high GPA. The academic requirements are so lax at UOP that it under minds the efforts of not only the students who work hard, but the academic community as a whole. If you think that informed hiring managers at top companies do not weigh where a candidate is educated then you are wrong. All things being equal between two candidates, the college and the person dictate the offer.
With regards to your statement that your last teacher is a lawyer, that is just irrelevant. I am sure many of the facilitating staff at UOP are intelligent professionals. Being a qualified lawyer does not make the persona qualified teacher. I agree that anyone with experience can relate that experience to someone. But the art of teaching is much more than relating experiences. Since you issued the challenge of saying to your class facilitator, (this is a reason why UOP calls them facilitators and not professors or teachers by the way) that he/she was a joke. I would take that challenge. I know for a fact that the vast majority of “facilitators” at UOP have no formal teaching experience. If you want a challenge, go to any teacher that has been formally trained and tell them that their training and experience in the art of teaching is useless because you think anyone with experience in a field is qualified to teach in that area.
I really feel that you are missing the point here. It is the unethical business practices at UOP that have degraded the academic standards at UOP. It is about the money. At other institutions money is a factor but there are two equally powerful forces at work, administrative and academics. Therefore you see a balance. This balance is not in place at UOP.
#97 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: S - Vancouver (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, May 31, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, May 31, 2006
As others have already noted, you may get what you pay for, but ultimately it's what you make of it that counts.
This thread may be drifting from B's original post about UOP's business practices, but I think its still applies.
Case in point:
I'm currently finishing up the program I started at UoP several years ago (with a big break in between), and had my share of disappointments with UOP (underwhelmed with their academic grading, lazy/inept teammates, 'teachers' that should be doing something else useful, etc). But I'm too far in to quit now and will be finishing (oops, they just added several 'unfinished' courses to my calendar!) late this year.
Look, I'm *GLAD* 'B' came out and has shone light into UOP's business practices; this will help get their academic house in better shape and will help give UoP degree's more weight.
Yes, at times I laughed at the courses I took as part of this program, but in the end, it's just a step in the right direction, that's all. I think that UOP has a pretty neat learning model but they need to tightened up their standards, i.e. tougher grading, longer class sessions, make the learning teams accountable for their offline time, and more testing!!!
That would help in A) giving their students real VALUE for their money, and B) give their degree programs more credibility.
Agreed; some of the people I've had to work with aren't up to the caliber of the kind of people you would think should be in an institution of higher learning, however, those folks are only going to get out of the class what they put in...the downside is, in an online environment with learning teams, the entire team is responsible (as is your individual grade) for a team project, and as B pointed out (quite rightly I might add) the grading is done on the curve and is DUMBED down so that everyone passes.
In my opinion, this means that people that would normally flunk ('f') out get a 'C', and people with a 'C' get 'B' or 'A'!
The good part about this?...is that if the numbskulls your working with don't ‘get it' it's up to you to pull it together, which has resulted in my learning on how to effectively manage a learning team and it's resources and time, how to be diplomatic with people, how to help others even when it's frustratingly simple (to you anyways), and how manage your time (and others) more effectively in the short time span that your given.
Not all of UOP has been great, but most of my experience has been *good*, especially in the upper level classes, and it's not just the academic learning it's the experience that counts as well. I'm really hoping that a 'real' school like Perdue or Stanford is much, much tougher...
Having said that, however, I recently found that my state-sponsored PAC10 traditional brick-n-mortar institution of higher-learning has mapped MOST (not all) but most of my higher level classes in the UOP program I'm in, to the same program that they offer, i.e. they recognize and accept those UOP classes!
No, it's not a one-to-one mapping, but its close and many of the UOP classes I've taken or will take are considered equivalent to their offerings. This means that *some* of the course offered by UOP is being recognized by your traditional schools, and my experience (both professional and as a student) bears this out; the more technical courses UOP offers are very up-to-snuff.
I don't give a rip about their recruiting practices, etc, I *knew* what I was getting into (other than my concerns about academics) and it's bearing out (mostly). So, the only worry I have is if my degree will transfer into my local schools Master's program, once I'm done here.
If I didn't say it before, thanks B for your insights.
#98 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Carrie - Belton (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, June 02, 2006
POSTED: Friday, June 02, 2006
I want to say thank you to B and everyone else. I am glad I came across this site. I signed up for UOPO just a month ago. I did the financial aid process and figured that this was a good accredited school since the government supports it! There were some discrepencies with my FA paperwork due to my dads taxes.
I didnt find this out until after 3 weeks of my classes, I cant afford school on my own so I was forced to drop. I now owe UOP like 400 dollars for those classes. My finance counselor said that as long as I come back at the end of june (at that time I can file as a dependent student, no parents on app)it will be ok and I will not personally have to pay the money.
After stumbling across this site, I picked up the phonebook and started calling some accounting firms (my major). I asked what they thought of a degree from UOP, 3 out of 10 literally laughed in my face, 4 said, are you kidding me? And the last 3 said, we dont make it a habit of hiring people with a degree from that school. I was shocked. I knew that UOP was too good to be true, it just seemed to simple to get a degree in accounting.
I did go to Merced college in california for 3 years. 1 year for general crap, 1 for nursing and 1 for accounting. UOP didnt even transfer my credits like they were supposed to and I was taking 2 writing classes that I know I have already completed and are transferable! I felt like a genious in those classes. I didnt even have to read the assignments before I made my posts!
UOP is definitly a ripoff, well, that is if you plan to do something constructive once you graduate and get your degree. As for me and my accounting, I will stick with real colleges that I know are legite and stop trying to take the short/easier route. Good luck to everyone and I hope you take this forum to heart. Those of you almost done with your degree or those who just attend the school, do yourself a favor, pick up a phone book, call some firms which deal with your major and ask what they think of a UOP degree. Hey you never know, maybe some of you are lucky and can find someone who looks a UOP as an accredited college..
Carrie - Belton,Tx
PS - I thought there was something weird about this college having several different names. UOP, Axia college, Apollo group.. The stock and money issue proved that for me..
#99 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: L - Bethany (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006
B,
A little background info to my situation before my question. Please bear with me. I've been attending UOPO for the past three years and am close to 30k in debt. Too late to jump ship now. The further I get into my core, the crappier the facs are. Yes, I finish assignment for no-show, ignorant, obnoxious and retarted team mates - after 3 years it becomes second nature and a fact of life. When I get good team mates, I am sincerely grateful. When you're 30k in debt with no tangible "equity", the world looks very different and you'll put up with a lot to get through.
This year I have attended the worst classes ever at UOP. The quality continues to plummit. I wish I could say I was amazed at the audacity and lack of ethics of some of the facs, but SHOCK and AWE are better descriptions. They continue to hire unethical, greedy people who are there to collect a paycheck. When I first started UOPO, poor quality instructors were maybe one out of 7 now the ratio is more like 1 out of 3.
Additionally, last year UOPO went through a phase where they no longer have "instructors" in classes but now only "facilitate" learning. What a JOKE. They continue to redefine their learning objectives in order to provide less value to students. Value costs money. I am in week 5 of a particularly sub-standard course right now.
I am a dedicated student and work dilligently at maintaining a good GPA - even if some folks think it is crap or not adequate. Maybe it is crap, I guess I have nothing to compare it to but I know that I work my butt off for it and I had a dream of my BS being worth something. Maybe it won't be worth anything in the marketplace but I know the blood, sweat, and literal tears it has cost me. It will always have that value to me.
My question is, late last year one class was so poor that I begged to get an interviewer to review the class. Of course that was worthless and had no benefit on any of the chums taking the course, including myself. Anyways, after 8 Academic Advisors, I went to a director to be changed to a different Advisor group. Now my FA and AA are level II advisors. What do I need to know about this new level of advisors? I assume I am on some kind of "crap" list to have received this "special" level of service.
I think the thing for me to do is to finish the BS and go on to get an MBA from a quality school.
Your thread is excellent - keep up the great work. You are informing people with fact. I wish I knew then what I know now - my choice would have been different.
L
#100 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: L - Bethany (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006
B,
After discussing this with my husband and after he has viewed the posts here, I have decided to transfer to a traditional university. We were thinking about this 2 classes ago but decided that if I changed schools, I would lose too many credits. However, with some information we received from you and other posters on this thread, we decided that since I have half way to go and because UOPO is so expensive, I may actually come out on top by switching! Most importantly, I have my hub's support.
I just heard UOPO is once again increasing tuition July 1st to $495 per credit hour - that's twice in 6 months! Plus the eResource fee is going from $70 to $78.
I am SO glad I found this Website and your post. Whatever crap others say, it's all just that - crap. I have lived it and I KNOW you're telling the truth and I sincerely appreciate your taking the time to tell people what it is like at UOPO. Some of your posts must have taken some time to articulate accurately what has taken place. I had all the information already but just needed help "connecting" the dots.
I am a student in good standing at UOPO - I have spent 3 years of my life fighting with them to get sub-standard service and fair treatment in the classroom. It has been an emotional rollercoaster. I feel beat up.
PEOPLE, if you care one bit about quality, the value of your degree, or are the type of person that strives to do his or her best in whatever you attempt - DO NOT GO TO THE UNIVERSITY OF PHOENIX.
#101 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Matthew - Saco (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, June 11, 2006
My girlfriend and I were once students at UOPO a year ago. She was working on her Bachelors of Education and I was trying to finish my Associates of Business. I had started out at a State Community College but due to medical problems, I had to withdraw. I heard about UOPO, so I decided to give them a chance and call one of the Advisors. The advisor's name was Craig Baker. We both enrolled in classes and started to do the classes online. The classes were unorganized and half of the time, you couldn't get a hold of your instructors due to the face that they were hardly in class or were not in for the week. That happened every week.
I then had some medical complications were I had to have surgery. I missed a week of school. I had call them in advance, to let them know that I would be missing school due to medical reasons. I had valid documentation from my Dotor and my Specialist vertfiying in case they needed them. I wanted to take a a leave of abscence for the surgery. I know that most colleges and Universities you can ask for one in situations like mine. they would also let you finish where u left off. They rudlely told me that if I missed the week of school I would be shit out of luck and would owe them money. I told them i would make up all the assignments and everything, they still told me I'm shit out of luck.
They ended up kicking me out of school and now are trying to hound money out of me. I have refused to pay them and I never will. They have threatened me with lawsuits if I dont pay them. I wont pay them! I would like to thank B for warning people about this wannabe school.
M
Saco, Maine
#102 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Charles - Toronto (Canada)
SUBMITTED: Monday, June 12, 2006
POSTED: Monday, June 12, 2006
I already post this comment elsewhere, but I am going to paste it again!
I writing this out of anger, so please excuse my grammer.
In addition, I hate to bash any educational institutions, but I just find it in my heart to write this to warn all potential UOP students, about this unethical and deceptive behaviour adversting, recurriment of UOP.
Anyways, on January of this year, I was spammed by University of Phoenix offering online distance course with offer of tutition wavier for my first course and textbook material. Since I hated those spammers, I took UOP for a ride, let alone I love learning. Two days later I got call from a conuciler from UOP, and she urged me to apply for the Canada-Ontario OSAP Government Financial Aid, which I refused, and I told her that was not necessary, and instead I give her a MasterCard that is about to expired in one month. Strangly enough, they do not ask me to send them a proof I identity for check if my Social Insurance Number or address is valid. (P.S. I used my uncle's address and fake Social Insurance Number generated by a online site). They only ask me by MasterCard or urged me to applied Financial Aid.
At this time, I was already a second year student enrolled in Bachelor of Commerce majoring in Marketing and Minoring in Anthrolopology at the University of Toronto. I had no plan to transfer, nor I inform UOP of my current status.
So I decided to b.s. the counciler to belief that I used to enrolled in oversea university for two years, and I will have a copy of transcript within a month for them. As a result, I was allowed in to enrolled in a third year Accounting course.
Next is what I found shocking... absolutely shocking. I tooked their 3rd accounting ACC440 course, and it was even easier than our first year MGT120H accounting here at the University of Txxx. Even worse, it was so easy, I think just about everyone got a A... This lead me to think UOP had no quality control, basically if you can hold a folk, you can get a A. At U of T, we don't have best program on earth, but at least they only hand out A(s) to only A students, our courses are hard, really hard, and class average are normally 68% to 69% (C+).
Two days after I finished this course, I called up counciler, who unfortunately no longer worked there. I told new counciler that I no intention to enrolled any further at UOP, given what I felt about the quality of their program. She then demanded that I paid for my first course before I was allowed to withdrawal. By now, my credit card had already expired and I wasn't ready hand anything over this evil institution nor given them my real Social Insurance Number. Instead arged for 30 minutes straight on the phone with this b*tch and eventually she offered me another course free of charge provided I do not drop out. I must say, I never this much pressure in my life, so decided to give them another doubt (I dont' know why am I even bother wasting my time).
So, I decide to use my next credit on different topic Marketing, my favorite. MKT463, holly micro, this course I think is half as hard as our MGT252, btw I worked my as*off and got 61% on that course. But guess what, MKT463, I got A+, without barely touching the textbook.
Again, I demand a withdrawal, except this time for real, for already 20 minutes I wouldn't no for answer and eventually again she allowed me to cancel my enrollment provided I paid for the courses I had taken. Guess what, I said YES, send me the invoice since I told them my new MasterCard is on way in the mail. Now, I am sure they are on their way in the mail. Don't worry guys, these idoits get a penny off me, since the credit card I used belong to my uncle and his address and a bogus birthday and SSN. Thanks Uncle Jeff for allowing me use your expired CC and to mess around with his evil corporation.
Now, here is my commments:
First, if you are serious of getting a degree go to a real college, and get it. UOP have no quality control, like i said, if you can hold a fork, you can get a A. Both of the course I took, I got A+ (just to let you know guys, I haven't got a A for very long time at U of T), in fact most of my grades are either Cs. Secondly, the counciler are more like gold diggers, if you are going to take courses with them, do not allow them to hold of a government financial aid... i just don't trust them.
Guys, I am not saying my school are superior than other schools, but I personally believe any school is better than UOP. Its just make me sick that some people can get a Bachelor degree this easy without having to work to hard for it, let alone getting As. For me and my friends, our business school (Rotman School of Management/ University of Toronto). We worked really hard and most get low Cs. Just to let you know that our professor could get into serious trouble if he/she hands out to many As, our class average must be C, no exceptions. Its just not fair. In addition, at least our tutition are only $9,000 per year and get access to real counciler. Lastly, believe me, after going thru their program myself, you can count that I believe would never hired anyone from this school. In my opinion, their degree are worth just as much as the paper that they printed on!
In the end, I must say since I only did 2 courses with this institution, I can not say that all their program sucked, but as far as business, I will give them a failing grade.
So, my advice to anyone choosing a college is to do your investigation and don't believe anyone. After all, you have live with your decision, not them.
Charles - Toronto, Ontario
Canada
#103 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Wealth - Grand Rapids (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Monday, June 12, 2006
POSTED: Monday, June 12, 2006
Hello all in this newsgroup:
I have recently graduated from UOP online with a MBA. My experience was positive. I feel that I have accomplished much. However, from the posts that I read, UOP is not considered to be a valid University. Also, many statements have been made regarding the validity of the degree and its acceptance. Well, this prompted me to do research and I find there is hope. Following are highlights from my research:
1. In my city UOP is accepted by employers because of the brick and mortar presence.
2. I did a search in Google using "MBA from University of Phoenix". I found that many people have received degrees from UOP and are professors, executives, or lawyers. In addition, many have parlayed MBAs from UOP into PhDs. See the following example:
Born in a small South Dakota town, M. Tilden Moschetti's life journey thus far has held many twists and turns up and down the western United States. Before practicing law, he has worked in areas of management, finance, information systems, and business process improvement in businesses from small to Fortune 500, from private sector to public. M. Tilden Moschetti holds a Juris Doctor from the University of San Francisco School of Law, an MBA from University of Phoenix, and a BS from University of Oregon. He is a member of the American Bar Association, acts as an executive of the Small Firm Section of the California Bar, and holds professional memberships in the groups such as the Association for Conflict Resolution and San Francisco Trial Lawyers Association.
You may view the whole profile at http://www.moschettilaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1080132.html.
So you see there is hope. I really only pursued the degree to learn more about business. I own an Ecommerce Web Design Consulting business. What I learned from UOP greatly increased my knowledge and allowed me to end with an absolutely invaluable business plan.
Personally, I have never been one to worry about what the "elitist" thought about me or my abilities. For me, UOP was the best place for me. Before attending UOP, I attended a state college. The learning experience for me was competitive--not nurturing. At UOP the discussion questions helped me to develop a voice. I became aware of my own intelligence and critical thinking skills. For the first time I was not competing against my classmates, but I was learning from them. By the time I finished the program I had learned how to communicate my perceptions on what was being presented. In the state institution, I was constantly parroting what the professor wanted to hear--not what I had learned. In addition, I was able to apply everything I learned. To me, what is most important about education is not the GPA, but the synthesis of what is learned. In fact, my GPA was only a 3.72. The instructors I had were very serious about grading the assignments. In addition, I did have tests in many of the classes. According to many posts this did not happen--it looks like UOP may be trying to clean up its act.
In regards to the team structure. The complaints about this must have reached the right people. Most of my instructors would peruse the newsgroups and would send evaluations to teammembers for rating of others on the team. I found this was done whenever one or two teammates did not pull his/her or their weight. In addition, I learned how to speak up if I felt a teammate was not doing his or her part. As a result, I developed leadership and communication skills which are desperately needed in business.
So, there you have it. My post is for those who have read these posts and have already received a degree from UOP. There is hope. Just go to Google and put in "MBA from University of Phoenix" (or replace MBA with whatever degree you received). You will find a myriad of people who have this degree and have gone on to do great things.
#104 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Jonathan - Columbus (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, June 17, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, June 17, 2006
I recently graduated from The Ohio State University, where I received a BA in psychology and a BA in criminology. I also completed a minor in sociology. I am now entering the full-time work force and I have had an extreme desire to complete a graduate program simultaneously.
While I attended the brick and mortar OSU central campus I also took advantage of taking some classes online there, which I enjoyed a great deal. Since I will now be in the work force and I will be pressed for time I naturally gravitated toward online classes to complete an advanced graduate degree.
I have contacted AIU Online and The University of Phoenix Online both in my research for a good online graduate program. I am a skeptical person by nature and I really wanted to check the credentials of these schools so I have been conducting extensive research on each institution that piques my interest.
I am extremely happy I found this site and I want to personally thank B and the others for posting their concerns here over The University of Phoenix Online, as well as info about other online programs at other schools. I was very close to applying to one of the schools I've read horror stories here about and I have now changed my mind. Thank you so much for this service!
I have a question for you B. You stated earlier that a degree from The University of Phoenix Online is almost worthless because even though they are indeed regionally accreditated, they are not AACSB accredited since they do not require a GMAT or GRE exam for entrance into their graduate program.
You spoke highly of Walden University and one other online school though because they have slightly higher admissions standards. However, these couple schools you recommended instead are not AACSB accredited either, right? I am asking because I am desperate to find a good onoine program in which my degree will mean something and this is definitely not an attack on you.
I am EXTREMEY thankfull for the information you have distributed here. Does an advanced degree from Walden University have a higher degree of legitimacy despite it also not requiring a GMAT or GRE exam?
I think I read that Walden University requires a 3.0 cumulative GPA on undergrad work to be admitted and that seems a little steep. My cumulative GPA at OSU was close to that but I am a bit afraid that I might have been just short because I completed a LOT more coursework than what was required for my dual major and minor.
I had an excess of credit hours that I earned....a rather large excess and I suffered some very unfortunate personal crises during my time at OSU. Do you have any recommendations for me and for a good program for someone like me?
#105 Consumer Suggestion
AUTHOR: Lloyd - Belmont (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 18, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, June 18, 2006
Jonathan,
I am personally working on a doctorate at Northcentral University (ncu.edu). I can say that I am very pleased with their program, responses, and concerns. I received Bachelors at the UOP and a Masters at Davenport, and found that team study is a great experience; however, never liked the idea of having my academic grade hinged on team members I could not influence for doing their part of assignments. Northcentral University is an RA school with a nice selection of degree studies with no team assignments or daily postings. The invention of GMAT, AACSB, and other disqualifiers do not have value greater than Regional Accreditation. Might be worth a look.
#106 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Jonathan - Columbus (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 18, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, June 18, 2006
I'm not sure why a GMAT or GRE would mean all that much anyhow. It seems to me that the main thing is that the school is fully regionally or nationally accredited. I just can't seem to envision a potential employer asking me if I took a GMAT and having that been the thing that my potential employment hangs on. In fact, when I got accepted to The Ohio State University I did not have to take the SAT.
I have never taken the SAT. I only took the ACT and that was acceptable to OSU. I have taken the Pre-ACT, the ASVAB (beware of recruiters beating down your door!) and, the ACT.
I am a bit worried though that since it seems none of these online schools require a GMAT or GRE that I will be a bit behind the curve when it comes to my degree holding weight. I may have to find a school that does indeed require one of these exams and try to get in there and see if I can take most of my courses online. I'd check into the Kaplan GMAT/GRE preparation courses to make sure I do the best I can on the test. Does anyone know if a degree from Strat, Walden or the school mentioned by the above poster is not quite as prestigious as one from a university that requires GMAT/GRE?
#107 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, June 18, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, June 18, 2006
Lloyd,
You will be fine with either NCU as the guy above me mentions. I am doing so consulting for them now. They are in the process of revamping their MBA program to a new version with an additional accrediting body. Not AACSB but close. I cannot remember the name right now. Walden is also great. Either way you go the admissions standards are higher so they filter out the riff raff up front. I think NCU's MBA is only like $17,000 while Waldens is $24,000 I think. The major difference is the schedule, Walden's program is Federal Title IV Financial Aid compliant so you can use a stafford loan but they take a more traditional approach, somewhat like UOP with regards to attendance requirements. NCU does not choose to use Title IV so you have to use personal student opportunity loans with them. This however, allows them much more freedom with course setup. You dictate your own schedule. I know The Executive Director of Enrollment at each college. The Director at Walden is Mr. Upham, great guy, he can get you hooked up with an enrollment advisor. The EDOE at NCU is Mr. Passey, he is more likely to assist you directly as NCU has a much smaller employee and student population than Walden. Make sure you ask for the new MBA program though, their old program really wasnt fit for competitive development of graduate students.
Anyway,
good luck.
#108 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: Caroline - Tempe (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, June 21, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, June 21, 2006
I do not believe B's comments to be those of a "disgruntled ex-employee" & would like to add some thoughts to what he's said. I was a Finance Advisor and later an Academic Advisor for UoP Online. I don't who B is but I see that we worked there at least partially during the same time period. Please don't pick on my spelling, it's late and I'm not bothering to proof.
While I was there, enrollment counselors were paid on commission based on how many students they enrolled. I was upset by what I thought were errors in EA conversations with students.
They glossed over costs (saying $400 per credit hour means $1200 per class but people unfamiliar with colleges may not know that. of course they can read it, but many did not & you shouldn't have to read fine print to find out the cost of tuition.) They would say that you don't have to pay your loans back until you are out of school. This led many students to think "until you graduate" when it means graduate, quit, fail out, be injured and not be able to continue, etc. Working adults are vulnerable to life situations that interupt school work and then the loans are due. B/c of the accelerated schedule, if you logged into class twice...you were going to owe SOMETHING. You don't have 2 weeks to drop without being charged. The culture of the school rushes enrollment. They allow and encourage you to start before your financial aid application has even made it to processing. So if there is a problem, the student is already racking up fees before the problem comes to light. If you take one class and quit, you don't get your financial aid money (B mentioned this) and you are collected on by the school and then referred to professional debt collectors.
I was an honest person trying my best to help students and I did well at my job. I reported what I was hearing EAs say to my supervisor and to an Enrollment supervisor but nothing ever changed. I realized these weren't mistakes, they were misleading on purpose. I personally called my new students as quickly as I got their files to attempt to get all of the correct information to them but often they were already in class when I got the file. The worst thing I ever was involved in was a student who had failed both of his classes, owed over $3,000 (financial aid doesn't pay for Fs), and when I contacted him about payment I realized very quickly that he was mentally handicapped. He didn't understand at all that there was any chance that he would have to pay for these classes and he was not capable of doing online college work. He didn't understand the situation enough to even be upset. I was livid that this had happened. If that doesn't tell you how far EAs would go to get an enrollment, nothing ever will. The one who enrolled him drove a very expensive car.
The EAs who were not comfortable with aggressive or misleading tactics did not do well and were often upset and distressed. One actually came to me and asked if I could contact her student and talk the woman out of enrolling b/c she had children and was on welfare and could not possibly afford the tuition. Even maximum financial aid for a freshman barely covers half the cost. That EA was in tears at least once a week.
UoP online can be good for some people. Many companies will pay for their employees to attend. For someone who needs to have a college degree on their resume in order to advance in their job and their employer will pay most or all of their tuition...I think this works well for those students. However, if you have to apply for loans to attend, I don't recommend it.
#109 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Andy - El Paso (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, June 28, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, June 28, 2006
I recently attended Uop. The first thing I was told is that more than likely my finaid wouldnt cover the tuition. So I took out a loan, even before it was approved, i was already enrolled. That should have sent red flags flying everywhere. I attended the first class and didnt like it at all. The "facilitator" told us to make sure to go to class since we were paying for it. He stated that we could pretty much figure out what he was making per class. Ummm....my brain was dead after 8 hrs of work. He told us his job was to make it as easy as possible for us to attain an A. Even if we missed work, we could make it up with no real deduction due to its lateness.
My professors at the local CC would have deducted at least 20 points for a late project. The other thing I didnt like was the team work atmosphere. In reality I didnt like it one bit. I dropped the following day. What a surprise to find a bill for almost $700. What the hell are these people trying to pull off. Has the BBB investigates these people, has the DOE, SEC, FBI?
Why arent there any people investigating. As far as I know it took them almost 5 yrs to gain certification in Texas. Whats the deal. We should all start a petition to our respective Attorney General.
#110 Employee
AUTHOR: Donald - La Crescenta (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, June 29, 2006
POSTED: Thursday, June 29, 2006
I've had plenty of instructors at UOP who would deduct 10-20% per day for lateness. I've even had some instructors that were so anal that they did not accept late assignments at all.
How many classes have you actually taken at UOP Andy? I've taken 18.
#111 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: K - Levittown (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, June 30, 2006
POSTED: Friday, June 30, 2006
It seems as though I am not the only one who had a less than desirable experience with the University of Phoenix. I will not say I hate them, but I will definitely NOT be recommending them to anyone I know.
It all started last August, when I decided I wanted to look into getting a degree. I have never had the desire or need to go to college, however, I am very well aware of the fact that a degree can't hurt.
I went online and began researching online programs. Due to my hours& the amount of travelling I was doing at the time, it would be near impossible for me to attend a typical college. Thats when I found the UoP. I proceeded to call my local campus & was put in touch with an enrollment advisor.
After playing 20 questions, I was told I could start in two weeks, if I could get my butt up there quick enough to get all of the "formalities" (ie, application process, financial aide, etc) taken care of. Being eager to start down the road towards that paper, I was at the local campus the very next day. This is where the problems began..
The application process was cake, with the exception of the "non-refundable" $110 application fee. I was accepted! On to the financial aide advisor. She was a very nice person, but as I later found out, failed to clearly explain everything to me.
According to the Federal Government, you are considered a "dependant" until you are 24. At the time I applied, I was only 19. In simple terms, this meant my mother would have to co-sign several loans with me. However, because of her current financial situation, she was unable to. It was after my first class that I learned that I would have to come up with $1200 every FIVE WEEKS to continue my "education". Two days later, I withdrew.
A week later, I received a bill for my ONE class for the amount of $375 dollars. As with others on this site, I also did not want my credit ruined, so I sent payment right away.
A few more weeks (and thirty phone calls to ensure the withdrawl was final) later, I get ANOTHER bill for $70 for a "resource fee". (For those of you unfamiliar with this fee, this is the fee you are assessed to access you materials online) At this point, I had HAD it with paying these people.
I sent a letter of dispute to the corporate collections dept, explaining to them I had NO intentions of paying for something that was of NO use to me, due to that fact that I had number one, already paid close to $500 for ONE class, and secondly, hadn't even gone on to access the "Resources". I received a letter back from them about two weeks later stating that they were sorry I did not have a good experience with them and that they would waive the fee. End of story? WRONG!
Just last week I went on to check my credit report, when lo and behold, there is a $70 CHARGE OFF from the Apollo Group on my credit! I have now spent the past 5 days trying to track somebody, ANYBODY down that can help get this matter resolved. I have been transferred to, no joke, twenty different people, who in turn send me in the opposite direction, chasing my tail again.
Again, I do not hate the UoP, but I would DEFINITELY look into other options before going through this school. It should be used as a last resort.
#112 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: M - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
I am not going to sit and pass judgment on either side of this debate. I think it is ignorant to say that the people in the classrooms are stupid and that you would be better off going to another school where "your intelligence" will be better matched. Pull your nose out of the air, or GO TO THAT SCHOOL, challenge yourself-whatever.
I think it is ignorant to write the original person "B" off as a disgruntled employee, I don't think he would get on and slam UOP if he didn't believe what he was saying was true. My opinion, if I may, is that maybe it was true, for him, maybe it was true at that point in time.
I have inside information also, however. I can tell you that I was able to succeed as an enrollment counselor and I did not lie to my students ever nor was I ever trained to. I was never encourage not once to do anything deceitful with my students, not ever, in fact to be as upfront as possible to avoid a negative experience.
If you are going to complain about UOP, complain about something that can't happen at any school. I graduated from SDSU, in some of my classes, I was surrounded by people that struggled with concepts that I thought were fairly simple. I was advised poorly, took unnecessary courses, mainly because I had to to do it myself, I didn't have the luxury of an academic counselor who cared, planning each course with me. Drop out rate? Are you kidding me? How many students drop out of traditional colleges each year? Bad instructors? I had plenty at San Diego State, what about you? Inability to find a job? I looked for a job for three months after earning my degree and found a job paying $9.90 hour, best offer. Some of your credits not transferring? If you take anything less than college algebra, I don't know any school who will accept it, let alone UOP, and if you haven't surpassed that math level, you have to take the prerequisites to get to that level and no, those remedial classes are probably not going to apply to a degree program.
THIS STUFF IS ANY SCHOOL, LADIES AND GENTLEMAN. I feel incredibly sorry for the people who were misadvised, that is unfortunate. But there are people who change schools everyday because something bad happened at their previous school and there aren't rip-off reports about it. Furthermore, people need to take more responsibility for understanding what their told. I don't understand how someone could not know that they were a dependent student until after their first class, the financial paperwork you have to complete goes over dependency status very clearly!!
Maybe many of you would advise that not getting any college education is better than UOP, I don't agree. For some people, it is their only option. No, UOP does not have exclusivity, they don't make people take GRE's and the GMAT, those tests are designed to keep people out. The philosophy at UOP is that anyone (at least those who are meet their qualifications) who wants an education, should be able to get it.
#113 Employee
AUTHOR: Hasina - Lithonia (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
I have sat here and read all the comments on how these disgruntled employees feel about UOP. I think the comments shold be taken for just that. I am employed by UOP and have been for almost 5 years. Have I seen instances where Enrollment advisors have misled students? Yes. However I beg to differ with B. I have seen more instances of students being told up front of their individual situations and being left with making thier own decisions. I have found that those who lie and twist the truth with their students, are those who are desparate to get a student to enroll.
In any sales type of environment, your performance measures are based on how well you perform. UOP is no different. I have been in some of the training for enrollment advisors and I have never witnessed any training that encouraged employees to lie. Those who choose to decieve choose to do so because they lack the skills or the confidence to get the potential student to believe in what they are providing. THis can only be remedied by knowing the product inside and out, and believeing in the product yourself. If you dont believe in the product or you dont think it has value then why are you selling it?
I have seen hundreds of students walk across the stage at graduation and it is an awesome emotional event. Some of the graduates would never have accomplished this goal had it not been for an educational environment that focuses on the working adult which is what UOP is. Is UOP for everyone? No its not. But who should make that determination? The student! What a few of the disgrunteld employees failed to mention is that you can request to sit in on a class prior to starting your class, or you can sample an online class. This way you can get a feeling of what you are going to experience.
As for transfer credits, most schools have a residency policy that requires you complete so many credits at thier institution in order to receive a degree from them. UOP is no different. The transfer between any 2 schools can cause you to loose credits, not just to or from UOP.
As for grades, I realy dont even understand how anyone can say that everyone gets an A or B. that is absurd. As an academic advisor I can surely tell you that this is not true, just ask the students who have gotten D's or F's. I bet they wish they could have gotten ans A or a B.
As for financial aide, the requirements are government mandated. You have to attend a certain percentage of weeks of instruction to be eligable for the funds you were awarded. Many people think that just because they were approved for funding, that they automatically get the money and tuition is covered. This is not true and this is not a UOP thing its a government thing. If you dont meet 60% (I think) of the attendance requirements, then you have not really earned the fundings you were slated for and the funds are returned to the lender. In the mean time you still attended class and so now you have to pay for the instruction you did receive.
All colleges have a policy about tuition. If you attend a portion of the course, you are obligated to pay a portion of tuition, up to a certain point. At a traditional school if you attend a course and lets say that school is on a semester system, if you attend a certian amount of days you are only entitled to a certian percentage refund. Once you attend half of the semester you may be entittled to 50% refund. THe same applies at UOP. THe fact that 5 weeks in the undergrad program is equivelant to one semester of traditional education means that once you attend the first night, you owe 25% of the tuition, once you attend the second night, you owe 50% of the tuition. So there really isnt any difference.
All in all UOP is a good institution with a rigerous ciriculum, and some of the best instructors, who are leaders in their fields. My advice is to research your options and make your own decisions on whether or not UOP is for you. Also no matter where you go, if you are told something that seems too good to be true or just doesnt seem right, ask for it in writing. If you cant get it in writing then that should raise a red flag. If you have academic concerns then ask to speak to an academic advisor they are the ones who would better be able to assist you, if you have financial aid concerns or questions then ask to meet with a finance rep. The majority of enrollment advisors at UOP do a great job, and they dont have to lie or decieve or ommit anything.
#114 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
Let me start with “M”. Although your intentions are good you are missing some issues with the points you bring to the table.
What we are talking about is business vs. education. Spurling himself is quoted as saying he believes that for profit education retains more accountability than traditional education does. Perhaps his intentions are good, but the outcome of accountability between shareholders and students will always leave the student on the short end.
You compare SDSU with UOP. Fine, maybe they have similar academic standards, I do not personally believe that but for the sake of argument I will give you that one. If they do have similar academic quality, why should UOP be able to charge $1400 for a class while SDSU is about that cost for a full semester of classes? The accountability is to the shareholder, to the income sheet, to the stock value, not to the product or the consumer.
At SDSU, or any public or private “non-profit” two separate but equal entities make decisions, academics and administration. Academics often serves as a balance system when the administration team is trying to maximize profit margins.
UOP has no such system in place. 5 weeks is not enough time for a person to cram a semester worth of education into. For it to be affective, an individual would need to be able to dedicate roughly 30-40 hours per week to school which defeats the whole foundation of the UOP convenience thing.
For this to be the case, and for them to charge that price and then be the number 1 user of Title IV funding with the highest default rate in the nation is doing more harm to our society than any good. The good being the opportunity for “average Joe” to get a degree. If you want to compare academics, compare apples to apples with regards to price point and you will soon find that those institutions UOP competes with on price point, it cannot touch with academic rigor.
By the way, I think you know you are not being forthcoming with regards to the training you received. The AMOPSR or RAMOPSR and the DCVA crap they teach is designed as a manipulative tool by which advisors can manipulate consumers. This would not be bad if the institution did not disguise sales people as “counselors”.
To Hasina,
Your point about Title IV at UOP being the same as at any other institution is also misleading. It is not. Look at the distribution of FA at UOP vs other colleges with regards to the class completion. Also, going back my point above regarding 5 week classes and the cost of the degree, comparing the 50% rule to 4 posts over 2 days at UOP vs weeks of class at another institution is invalid.
You are not making valid comparisons here. The student could post, “checking in” and “welcome response” emails to their class on day one, and ask two questions about the syllabus the second day in class, and suddenly that education is supposed to be worth $700? I think not. It is a money ploy. That's it, a way to increase retention through manipulation.
UOP knows a person is less likely to drop if they are told they owe money and if you are going to say that the enrollment team is being upfront with people about that then you are lying. I know how much academics hates enrollment. You guys are always cleaning up after the lies or misinformation given to students by enrollments. You know as well as I do that you and the students are just a number at that place.
You've been there 5 years and you know they wouldn't even blink if you quit tomorrow. I felt bad for academics while I was there, you guys dealt with a ton of crap brought on by the internal policy of Brian Muller. Sell. Sell. Sell.
I understand your desire to defend the organization you work for, but why back them when they have done nothing to back you or the educational consumer? I understand your points, but just like M, you are not comparing apples to apples here with 5 week classes vs traditional semesters/quarters.
#115 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, July 04, 2006
By the way Hasina
I am not sure I understood your point about the 50% thing fully. I was under the impression that UOP online pro-rated the course cost by week. Perhaps I am incorrect.
#116 Employee
AUTHOR: Hasina - Lithonia (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 05, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, July 05, 2006
Again I repeat that in the almost 5 years that I have worked at UOP, I have seen Enrolment advisors mis-lead students, is this intentional? Perhaps on occasion. I still say the majority of enrollment advisors dont lie to students. They dont have to. They can do thier job with out lying. Those who dont have the skills or confidence to do their jobs are the ones who have to lie to get students to enroll. THats not a UOP thing, thats an individual who has not work ethics thing. The same thing happens at Universities across the US. And actually B. My supervisor does care if I stay or quit, which is why when I turned in my resignation a year ago, she talked me out of leaving. I was contemplating returning to the social work field and decided to stay at UOP.I say agian anyone who is thinking about attending make your own decision.
#117 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: M - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Wednesday, July 05, 2006
POSTED: Wednesday, July 05, 2006
I would like to address some of the issues that you mentioned in your last post.
I do not have a power point presentation on why for-profit schools cost more than not-for profit schools, perhaps it is because shareholders are involved and because they are well, making a profit. If you are saying that one is better than another, then that is just a matter of a opinion. But UOP is not the only for-profit school and they are pretty much middle of line as far as tuition of schools the country, including both for profit and not for profit. If you are comparing apples to apples, UOP's prices are comparable to other for profit online schools.
I would be careful about comparing UOP to schools that are not in this category, that UOP cannot touch with "academic rigor". I believe that this point really returns to the exclusivity factor. People don't want to go to Harvard because classes are difficult or challenging, people want to go to Harvard, because only a select few are accepted and boy, does it look good on a resume.
I think in exploring this topic you need to be able to step outside of the traditional framework and be honest about what really happens in a classroom. When you say that a student would have to dedicate 30-40 hours in a classroom a week for the 5 weeks to be effective, do you think that this actually happens in classrooms across the country? Minus the 30 minute breaks in a traditional classrooms, the first 20 minutes class doesn't start, the two hours the professor is lecturing on the topic with no other discussion, 25% of the class not attending until the day of the test and 50% of the class not listening and pissed off that they are actually in class when they could be reading the book at home.
In theory, I understand what you're saying. But realistically, even if people were really investing that time into one course,which they are not, and the time was productive, which it's not, people WILL NOT remember most of what they learn anyway.
I am trying not to be too philosophical about it, but degrees have always been a way to separate the "haves" from the "have nots" and really nothing more. You learn most about the career you choose to do, from doing the career you choose to do, not your bachelor's degree. This is my opinion, based on what I have observed of others' lives and my own and certainly may not be supported by UOP.
So why even get a degree you ask? Because employers want it. Because it's prestigious. Because that's the way this country works. Why a more expensive school like UOP over San Diego State? If you can get into San Diego State (there are so many people applying to this school who's education I found to be subpar that you now have to be pretty exceptional to get in), you can take night courses for 3 and a half hours a night, for four days a week, for four and a half years while working full-time, and be able to accomodate for the courses that that are required to graduate, but only pop up with one class for that semester in the middle of the day, three times a week-please go to that school. It is better for you because UOP is more expensive. But if you are taking one or two courses a night, during a 16 week semester, IF you complete your degree, you will complete it in about 8 years and you have missed out on 4 years of the income that were getting your degree for in the first place.
To summarize I just think it's unfair to question the strategy UOP uses without questioning what higher education has really done for us traditionally.
Last point, another way to look at having the "number one default rate". First off being the number one private university in the entire country, it would be no surprise that UOP has more students in default. Secondly, the population that UOP serves is a little different from others, these are people that have to work obviously, most of which do not do it for fun and are unable to attend a traditional school because of their lives, which may then in turn cause them to have to leave UOP. If UOP wasn't around, they might not be going to school period, or end up in default at another college.
#118 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Thursday, July 06, 2006
POSTED: Thursday, July 06, 2006
M,
Thus far you have been non-confrontational and presented your points without insult. Because of that I will continue to also operate in such a manner. However, regarding my next statement and your last post above, I hope you take what I am about to say as constructive criticism and not an insult. Your last post revealed to me a lack of experience and understanding with regards to the value and role of higher education on both the macro and micro scale in our social and economic systems. I understand the point you are attempting to make but taking it at face value you are basically saying that the overall actions of UOP are irrelevant because:
A. other businesses do it. B: The “education” behind what we call a degree is irrelevant in our society today. Both points I take issue with but before I get into that, I would like to provide a comparison based off of some of the points you use to make your argument.
With regards to the price of UOP and your claim that their price point is within the mid-line of for-profit online entities is incorrect. Let's look at Walden U and compare what they do academically vs. price and then contrast that with UOP. Walden is a for-profit online college and they are currently taking huge chunks of business away from UOP. They can do this because wise educational consumers understand the balance between, price, quality, and service. Walden is driven by both administration and academics equally. They are growing and doing it right.
Walden price for 9 classes at $240 per credit hour with 5 qtr credit classes = $10,800
UOP price for 9 classes at $495 per credit hour with 3 smstr credit classes = $13,365
Difference = $2565.00 per year or roughly $8,000 for 3 years of college.
I compared it to 3 years because Walden has a different academic operating MO. You cannot get into Walden's bachelor program without 30 smster/45qtr credits completed and at least a 3.0 GPA. Why? 2 reasons:1 is because the financial aid available to Level 1 freshman students is limited and Walden understand that although they could make money off these students, it is in the best interest of the student and the college to attend a less expense college like Rio Salado Online wich is an affiliate partner of Walden but operate as a non-profit online entity in Phoenix. RSO's tuition per class is about $230 so their freshman year can be completed for roughly $2500. Well below the Level 1 financial aid offered by FAFSA.
The second reason is to screen candidates to make sure they are qualified to handle the academic standards of the program.
What was UOP's solution to the high drop rate of level 1 and 2 students in 2004? WIU AXIA. They did not do this in the best interest of the student, they did it to maximize profits. WIU AXIA's tuition was designed to fall right on the maximum allotted amount of Title IV funding available to Freshman/Sophomore students. They finish their degree, then move on to UOP's bachelor completion program. This means a student going through both programs and completing 120 credits ends up paying over $42,000 for the degree when all is said and done.
At Walden, the student spends $32,400 and another $2500 at the starting college to get into the program totaling $34,900.
Interesting fact:
Title IV Funding Stafford Loan for independent students per year:
Year 1 = $6500
Year 2 = $7400
Year 3 = $10500
Year 4 = $10500
Total = $34,900
Right in line with Walden while UOP using that funding, plus an additional 7K plus. (considering that many Pell Eligible applicants on average get roughly $1500 per year in funding)
Why is Walden's tuition and program so much more well designed for the interests of the consumer/student? Why is Walden's program so much more difficult to get into? Why is Walden's relative operating expense higher because they invest more revenue dollar per-student than UOP yet UOP has much higher tuition? Why is the consumer dollar value so much more at Walden than UOP. Why does Walden's program not burden Pell and Stafford programs with extremely high default and non-payment rates even though their program is tougher?
The answer is greed. Walden, as well as multiple other colleges in this arena (Cappella, NCU, Strayer, etc.) have shown that for-profit education can be profitable as well as academically sound, and consumer oriented depending on where the entity sets is priorities. Consumers should go to these other colleges but the brand name recognition and dishonest enrollment practices at UOP do well to attract un-informed consumer. This has and will continue to have negative impacts on UOP as they must appeal to only the lowest common denominator of students that want to do nothing for a degree or do not care about standards. All the real candidates will be at competitor institutions. Muller knows this, which is why the only way he will ever hit his goal of 1,000,000 students is to buy other colleges with better academics and better images.
UOP is driven by the greed and arrogance of 1 Brain Muller CEO. He does not care for academics, for consumers, or for the impact his operating motive has on the ethical environment of business and the health of the industry, nor does he care about the wider impact his actions are having on education in the US.
Now let me get back to my original 2 points. First, just because other entities do it does not make it okay for UOP to do it. In fact, the only reason other entities do it is because UOP set the foundation for how to make a lot of money in for profit education without concern for rules, quality or academics. Our society has fallen asleep when it comes to hold corporate entities accountable for the actions and their impact on environmental, social and economic systems. In fact, UOP has been guilty of violating many rules and laws, but simply because they have a ton of money, the authorities have only given them slaps on the wrist. Our system of government and the rule of law never accounted for the influence large corporations would have on bodies of authority. Entities like UOP corrupt the ethical fabric of business by exploiting their employees, un-aware consumers, and the public services such as Federal Title IV.
You make a point that UOP should have a higher default rate than other colleges because they are the largest college in the US. This is only true when dealing with the overall number and not comparing it to the percentages. If you want to get a good feel for how bad UOP is, take the current number of defaults they face per-capita. If you compare their percentage per 1000 student to any other college you will see what I mean. They abuse the purpose of Title IV.
The second point was regarding the impact higher education has on the individual all the way up to the US being competitive nation in the global economy. Education and a college degree is more than just a way to segregates the haves from the have nots. This mentality has detrimental affects on so many things and UOP is responsible for perpetuating it. On the individual level, my college experiences outside of UOP have been more engaging and I have learned much more than you have lead on that college actually teaches. My second masters after my first at UOP did well to prepare me for running and understanding a business on many levels. In turn, my undergraduate degree built a solid foundation for me to continue to develop educationally and professionally. Yes a degree is important but when I hire new employees, I do weigh heavily their educational experience and source of the education. Consistently, UOP produces candidates less prepared for success and the big problem is that they produce so very many of them. You cannot teach a masters level student accounting or statistics in 6 weeks when they have no foundation in that area already.
Our ability to thrive as a nation and compete as a country rides upon our nations ability to educate its people. What I call the UOP affect is the result of having thousands of people running around feeling entitled to certain things simply because they obtained their degree. UOP has been a major culprit and the “dumbing down” of educated Americans. Because they make it about profit only, they are the biggest offender of selling degree programs. At UOP it is about time, patients and money when it comes to being a student. It is not about academics, learning, or effort. This results in many college graduates with only surface level foundation skill sets. Yes, on the job learning is critical but companies do not want to have to teach a person “how to learn”. This is why we use a college degree as a standard. Many situations in business, government, science, math or any social crucial function cannot be solved in 5 weeks, 1 hour a day, 3 days per week.
Entities like UOP are one of the reasons why there are so many “educated” idiots in America with ADD and short attention spans. Real learning and development takes “TIME” and/or large amounts of “EFFORT” and UOP has left these critical factors out. This is type of short attention span learning is exactly why this current administration in office now can screw up something like Katrina so badly and only a year later, no one seems to care but those who it affected.
UOP and its disservice to this society is not something that can be so easily written off. The reason I take the time to sit here and do this is because I know they are a bigger threat to so many things than most people even realize. My biggest issue is that they could do so much good if they only changed their motives. Brian Muller has no place in any type of higher education facility.
My rant has gone on long enough. I just really take issue with those who defend UOP without seeing the bigger picture of how their actions affect so many things negatively.
#119 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Wealth - Grand Rapids (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Friday, July 07, 2006
POSTED: Friday, July 07, 2006
OK. This is to the last discourse. I did not read all of it, but what I read did not ring true. First of all, I graduated from UOP with an MBA in Ebusiness. I compared the courses from UOP with Walden. UOP's course list was much more comprehensive. You can learn anything in five to six weeks. You make it sound like the learning is just in the classroom. The learning is started in the classroom and continues throughout the week with readings, assignments, team assignments, and research.
What I liked about UOP was that I was not just learning from a teacher, I was also learning from other classmates. For the first time I did not feel like I was competing with my classmates for the teacher's approval.
UOP is education for adults. It is taught so that the individual can learn. Yes, it is expensive, but so was my undergrad, not for profit, private college. My undergrad college was $300 per credit hour in 1987. Today it is $450 per credit hour. Most of my professors where puffed up bigots. I learned because I wanted to learn. They did their best to make it very hard for me, because they did not believe I was suppose to be there. I was a black woman taking computer science. I will leave the rest to your logical understanding. In addition, I spent most of my time disputing grades I was given because of bigotry--I even had to take one professor before a grievance board because he gave me an F for an assigment (I won and he was fired). The assignment was to write a database program for a library. Mine was one of the only ones which worked. He believed I must have cheated and copied from one of the other students. So, I spent much of the last two years of my undergrad fighting to graduate.
UOP was different. I enjoyed my learning experience. I also learned. I am not an idiot. I went to UOP because I believed I would get a fair shake--and I did. I am a very intelligent woman. I worked for my grades at UOP. I graduated with a 3.72. I say that because, it seems the perception is that UOP just gives away the grades.
The fact that UOP makes it easy for a person to enroll does not make it a bad school. They are reaching for a market of people who wish to obtain a quality education without being judged. I am one such person.
#120 Update By Author
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, July 08, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, July 08, 2006
All I can say is that I would advise you to go take a few classes in a masters program with AACSB or ACBSP accreditation. In fact, I am familiar with UOP's E-Business course sequence. Since you have your MBA, the Stats, Accounting and Finance courses at this other college should be a breeze.
You will learn quickly the difference between what 6 weeks requires and what 16 weeks requires. You will find that UOP left a few things out BECAUSE they rely on students to fill in the gaps for absentee professors. If students were supposed to teach the class, they wouldn't be in school learning!
Sure some folks have pearls of wisdom in the class, but when was the last time you paid $30K to sit in a chat room? This method makes UOP a haven for mis-information. Ultimately what you have is working professionals with a masters and NO actual teaching training or experience, acting as professors, and a group of students chatting back and forth about how they interpret the material. This is a recipe for disaster
Also, regarding your point about the program differences between Walden and UOP. In my opinion, saying UOP's program is more comprehensive because of the course descriptions is like saying you prefer the flavor of one ice cream over another simply by reading the ingredients on the outside and never tasting either.
Just go take some classes at the masters level at a local university, then come in here and say that UOP is a great program.
#121 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Wealth - Grand Rapids (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, July 08, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, July 08, 2006
B. I want to thank you for your recommendation. Your response tells me that you are sincere about your opinions--I respect that.
However, I have to tell you that I have attended a local university for a master level degree (the university was AASCB certified) . I took the GMAT to get in and jumped every one of their hoops. Once I started the classes, I was faced with the same barriers I experienced with my undergrad classes. I was tired of fighting and decided to transfer to UOP. In comparison, the classes are the same, just a different time frame, different environmental delivery,and evaluation method. In the university's classes, I was presented with a syllabus, which outlined the assignments, test dates, and readings.
In UOP's classes I was presented with the same. In the university class the teacher gave an lecture each week for that week's learning objective. In UOP's classes, I receive a lecture (written) for each weeks learning objective. Pretty much the same. The big difference is I had to do more testing than writing in the traditional university. I learned what I needed to learn in order to pass the test. At UOP I had to do more writing, so as a result I had to research, then be able to turn into thoughts, on paper, what I researched and learned (this is where the learning came in).
I did take undergrad statistics--it was terrible. I learned enough to pass the tests, but I still did not know statistics. When I took it at UOP, I learned statistics, because I was not just learning for a test. I had to read and re-read the text to work the exercises. In addition, my statistics instructor at UOP gave us midterm and final tests--as well as written assignments. In the written assignments, I was given business scenarios in which I had to apply the statisical information for various results (try doing that and not learn anything). Through all of this I learned statistics--really learned--for the first time. I use it in my business practices and understand how it works.
See B, learning style is what is important. I am one that likes to learn. The way UOP presents the lessons allowed me to learn and apply. Again, I respect your opinion. But for me (and I can only speak for myself), UOP was the best choice. It was not just a chat room experience. Also, I never had any problems with the service. Everything went smoothly. In fact, my counselor would call me and email me to let me know about changes.
My rebuttal is not for defense of UOP, but for my defense. I am sorry for your problem with UOP, but as you can see by my experience, everyone does not have the same problem.
#122 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Wealth - Grand Rapids (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Saturday, July 08, 2006
POSTED: Saturday, July 08, 2006
To anyone interested, following is a link to an excellent example of UOPO. This is for MIS and it is from 2003. A lot has changed since 2003, but it will give you some indication as to the the what it takes to get a degree from UOP. It is NOT a degree mill.
http://billslater.com/uop/wfs_uop_updates.htm#The%20Class%20I%20Am%20Presently%20Taking:
http://billslater.com/uop/wfs_uop_updates.htm#The Class I Am Presently Taking:
If neither of the above links work, go here
http://billslater.com/uop/wfs_UoP_MS_CIS_Handbook.htm and then choose the link which says: "The Last Class I took". Actually, this whole site is interesting.
#123 Ex-Employee
AUTHOR: B - Phoenix (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, July 09, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, July 09, 2006
I know the posts above are long and many. However, there are a few times when people come in defending UOP and saying that they had a positive experience. As long as they have been constructive and avoided just blowing their horn about their high GPA I have left them alone. I have said before that although a few people have had a positive experience at UOP, it does not counteract the overwhelming negative affect UOP exerts on the social and education environment. Aside from the academic and financial problems, they also have major issues with internal employee treatment. They have a history of fradulent activity when it comes to employee compensation and abuse of Title IV funding rules and regulations. If you go back through here and review, simply ask yourself which side of the fence you are on, then look who is on that side of the fence with you. The overwhelming majority of the people who have defended UOP have proven themself to be at best, dimb. Even that "professor" that came in here spouting off couldnt even spell right after lecturing me on my format. And that guy claims he's teaching! The good does not outweigh the bad. Those of you who support UOP should be more concerned about these problems than anyone else. Something is obviously wrong there. Ignoring it solves nothing
Trying to distract from it makes it worse. Since we are providng links to websites, I thought Id include a list of my own.
http://www.avoiduniversityofphoenix.com/Warning.html
http://uopsucks.com/home.html
http://www.obhe.ac.uk/news/sample396.html
GOOD ONE!!! http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2004/mft04062508.htm?source=EDNWFT
Good One!!! http://beautifulatrocities.com/archives/2005/06/remedial_higher.html
There are hundreds of these, this is enough for now.
#124 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Wealth - Grand Rapids (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Sunday, July 09, 2006
POSTED: Sunday, July 09, 2006
B.
Again I say, I respect your opinon. It is honest, and you are entitled to it.
The link I provided was not to defend UOPs honor or dishonor. It was provided to give a glimpse into learning experience. Some may feel it is not enough, some may feel it fits them.
You have your own agenda and I does not affect me--I am finished with my degree and it feels good to place it on my resume.
God's blessings to you B.
#125 Consumer Comment
AUTHOR: Rite - Newport Beach (U.S.A.)
SUBMITTED: Tuesday, July 11, 2006
POSTED: Tuesday, July 11, 2006
I go to UoP online because the company pays for it. I know it is full of idiots but why cry and whine, and type thousands of pages of grief over it? Haha ... B is right, however I wonder why anyone would want to debate with him. You can never win.
But this is really just a flame thread, entertaining for a few minutes. What a shock, some folks aren't thrilled with a huge bureaucracy! Wow, amazing!
Everyone in this thread is heavily biased. No credibilty whatsoever.
Have a nice day
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