United Collections Bureau, UCB How can they use government letter head Columbus Ohio

reading through your notes... The letter is a valid letter from UCB offices. The letter is from the Early out department... They use the letter head and they have every right to. The thing is that it is not a misrepresentation of the company... Atty and the collector reject need to get it straight... The tax department, who ever you owed the money to is well aware of the uses of their letter heads and it is in the contract. They use the letter head until it begins regular collections and they begin to call you... When that happens then it may be listed on your credit.

I thank you Ken and Steve. Ken, what you stated was almost verbatim to what my attorney told me. Is'nt the law wonderful? I belive, however, that since this happened in September of 2005, that the statute of limitations has run out. I did get one good thing out of my efforts.... UCB is no longer allowed to contact me, for anything. So I do sleep better knowing they can't threaten me anymore. Sometimes the bad guys do finish last....at least I have that satisfaction. Keep up the great advice, both of you, and have a Happy Christmas! ( I dont like to use the word "holiday", hope no one is offended.

Tracy,

I had another situation a year ago regarding a CA and searched for a consumer attorney in Ohio. I contacted five attorneys from Dayton to Cincinnati and received the same answer for all. "There is no money in suing CAs". In my opinion this proves CAs get away with alot and collection attorneys make fortune in Ohio

FDCPA violations are filed in Federal District Court not Ohio courts (ie. small claims, County area courts or municipal). That's the first mistake your attorney made (he's probably not even registered to practice in Federal Court).

Some states (like Texas, Minnesota, NY to name a few) have state laws specific to debt collection over and above the Federal FDCPA. Ohio is lame in regards to debt collection. Under Title 13 of the Ohio Revised Code, the statue basically states the CA has to follow the Federal FDCPA. I believe most Ohio judges and magistrates will not bother with sorting out FDCPA violations since they probably are not familiar with the FDCPA and the case law.

The second mistake - the civil penalities under the FDCPA allow for the attorney to collect his paycheck and expenses without reducing your award. Generally your attorney will make out for more moneywise than you. That's why I would think consumer attorneys would jump on this easy paycheck. Most cases are settled prior to trial.

BUT anyways...I have yet to find an attorney in Ohio with the drive and willingness to take on CAs. I truely believe Ohio being too conservative works against the consumer and more in favor of the business.

I hope this helps!!!!

Ken

Tracy,

Your lawyer should have been able to go after UCB for the multiple FDCPA violations and win. They always settle without going to court.

The FTC does not ever do individual enforcement. They never claimed to. It is not their purpose. That is common knowledge. The only way to enforce your rights under the FDCPA is with a lawsuit.

And the BBB is a total waste of time, as they have no authority to do anything. They are useless.

You can file a Bar Association complaint against UCB's attorney.

I have read the responses here to the complaint. I also have taped conversations with UCB collectors and their supervisors. I also have taped conversations with attorney Vaneck's office which is one of the attorneys UCB uses. One taped message from a UCB collector was telling me that this is" in reference to a lawsuit being filed against you and I need to talk to you about it". He left a account number for me to use when I called him back. (I didnt).

Then a couple of days later I got a early collection letter with the same account number reference on it and it was ordered the same day as the message left on my machine. Being a collector for 15 years, I knew that same collector at UCB ordered the letter printed from his computer as he was leaving his lawsuit threat on my machine.

Then I called and taped the conversation with his supervisor Denise, who told me that yes they were suing me. Then after asking 5 times I finally got a number for the Attorney Vaneck. I called and talked (also taped conversation) to Rita at Vanecks office. She verified that yes they had recieved my file from UCB SIX MONTHS AGO but sent back to UCB as they saw I was not working and had nothing to go after.

After all that I retained an attorney, wrote the FTC and BBB. The FTC said they could not help me, they dont have enough people. They only take on class action suits. The BBB wrote me back and said the case was closed due to no evidence. (WHAT? I sent them everything I had on UCB)But they did say the collector was reprimanded. (yea right) The attorney I had hired that told me I had a great shot at getting alot of money out of UCB held my case for 2 months and then told me that they had decided not to try the case because there was no precedence in the state of Ohio for collection agencies.

So after all that I got no help from any of the agencies set up to help the consumer. The only good thing that came out of all the work I did to get UCB was that they no longer contact me. Maybe you can get help in other states, and good luck at it. But all I got was nada, zip, zilch. Yes, the FDCPA is there for the consumer. But if you try to get them to help you, I bet all you will get from the FTC is a form letter. Good luck anyways to all that are taking on UCB.

I have read the responses here to the complaint. I also have taped conversations with UCB collectors and their supervisors. I also have taped conversations with attorney Vaneck's office which is one of the attorneys UCB uses. One taped message from a UCB collector was telling me that this is" in reference to a lawsuit being filed against you and I need to talk to you about it". He left a account number for me to use when I called him back. (I didnt).

Then a couple of days later I got a early collection letter with the same account number reference on it and it was ordered the same day as the message left on my machine. Being a collector for 15 years, I knew that same collector at UCB ordered the letter printed from his computer as he was leaving his lawsuit threat on my machine.

Then I called and taped the conversation with his supervisor Denise, who told me that yes they were suing me. Then after asking 5 times I finally got a number for the Attorney Vaneck. I called and talked (also taped conversation) to Rita at Vanecks office. She verified that yes they had recieved my file from UCB SIX MONTHS AGO but sent back to UCB as they saw I was not working and had nothing to go after.

After all that I retained an attorney, wrote the FTC and BBB. The FTC said they could not help me, they dont have enough people. They only take on class action suits. The BBB wrote me back and said the case was closed due to no evidence. (WHAT? I sent them everything I had on UCB)But they did say the collector was reprimanded. (yea right) The attorney I had hired that told me I had a great shot at getting alot of money out of UCB held my case for 2 months and then told me that they had decided not to try the case because there was no precedence in the state of Ohio for collection agencies.

So after all that I got no help from any of the agencies set up to help the consumer. The only good thing that came out of all the work I did to get UCB was that they no longer contact me. Maybe you can get help in other states, and good luck at it. But all I got was nada, zip, zilch. Yes, the FDCPA is there for the consumer. But if you try to get them to help you, I bet all you will get from the FTC is a form letter. Good luck anyways to all that are taking on UCB.

I have read the responses here to the complaint. I also have taped conversations with UCB collectors and their supervisors. I also have taped conversations with attorney Vaneck's office which is one of the attorneys UCB uses. One taped message from a UCB collector was telling me that this is" in reference to a lawsuit being filed against you and I need to talk to you about it". He left a account number for me to use when I called him back. (I didnt).

Then a couple of days later I got a early collection letter with the same account number reference on it and it was ordered the same day as the message left on my machine. Being a collector for 15 years, I knew that same collector at UCB ordered the letter printed from his computer as he was leaving his lawsuit threat on my machine.

Then I called and taped the conversation with his supervisor Denise, who told me that yes they were suing me. Then after asking 5 times I finally got a number for the Attorney Vaneck. I called and talked (also taped conversation) to Rita at Vanecks office. She verified that yes they had recieved my file from UCB SIX MONTHS AGO but sent back to UCB as they saw I was not working and had nothing to go after.

After all that I retained an attorney, wrote the FTC and BBB. The FTC said they could not help me, they dont have enough people. They only take on class action suits. The BBB wrote me back and said the case was closed due to no evidence. (WHAT? I sent them everything I had on UCB)But they did say the collector was reprimanded. (yea right) The attorney I had hired that told me I had a great shot at getting alot of money out of UCB held my case for 2 months and then told me that they had decided not to try the case because there was no precedence in the state of Ohio for collection agencies.

So after all that I got no help from any of the agencies set up to help the consumer. The only good thing that came out of all the work I did to get UCB was that they no longer contact me. Maybe you can get help in other states, and good luck at it. But all I got was nada, zip, zilch. Yes, the FDCPA is there for the consumer. But if you try to get them to help you, I bet all you will get from the FTC is a form letter. Good luck anyways to all that are taking on UCB.

Elaine,

There are a few disadvantages to the consumer having collection agencies collecting for the IRS. The first being that debt collectors are more aggressive than the salaried staff at the IRS.

The second being that the collectors will have an easier time winning in court and getting a judgement and subsequent garnishment, as they will have ALL of your personal info, and since they are contracted by the IRS, there is sure to be a big court battle allowing NO SOL just as if the IRS was collecting for itself. I see that one coming.

I really can't see why the IRS can't collect its own taxes, they have unlimited power and resources, all they have to do is flag your SS# and take all tax refunds, state and federal, as well as garnishments, etc.

I can't see how this is better in any way for the iRS or the consumer. I just hope they are still classifies as a third party collector so we still have the FDCPA.

I heard on NPR news that the IRS is now outsourcing collection activity on people that owe taxes to scumbag collection agents...that they think this cheaper, more efficient and more ethically sound than legitimate IRS employees continuing to try and collect. I don't remember the name(s) of the collection agencies used, but they are prohibited from requiring you to pay them...payments are to be sent to the IRS. Have any of you heard more on this topic? Steve?

I heard on NPR news that the IRS is now outsourcing collection activity on people that owe taxes to scumbag collection agents...that they think this cheaper, more efficient and more ethically sound than legitimate IRS employees continuing to try and collect. I don't remember the name(s) of the collection agencies used, but they are prohibited from requiring you to pay them...payments are to be sent to the IRS. Have any of you heard more on this topic? Steve?

I heard on NPR news that the IRS is now outsourcing collection activity on people that owe taxes to scumbag collection agents...that they think this cheaper, more efficient and more ethically sound than legitimate IRS employees continuing to try and collect. I don't remember the name(s) of the collection agencies used, but they are prohibited from requiring you to pay them...payments are to be sent to the IRS. Have any of you heard more on this topic? Steve?

Maybe I come off wrong, but there is something that people missed. You can get an attorney that doesnt charge up front, and takes a percentage of what you get afterward. Which is what im doing with these guys ( If you get anything, which you should cause that letter is, well its a piece of work all right.

You can wait, if youd like, but dont let that year expire, cause then you cant do anything at all. Personally Im not waiting, what they left on my machine was clearly illegal and that letter youve got is not something they can argue with.

"J",

Yeah, that makes sense, run out and spend a few hundred dollars fighting a $50 collection. Now that's what I call good advice.

Not even UCB would sue over $50! The costs of trying to sue and get the judgement and garnishment would cost them a few hundred dollars, and there is no guarantee they can win.

File the complaint at FTC.gov, and document everything. Stay off the phone. You have a full year from the date of the offense to sue for damages under the FDCPA, so you might as well get more evidence to support your lawsuit.

In the mean time send your dispute along with the proof of your payment, OR just send the debt validation reuest and make them prove everything, as they would have to in court.

Have fun!

"J",

Yeah, that makes sense, run out and spend a few hundred dollars fighting a $50 collection. Now that's what I call good advice.

Not even UCB would sue over $50! The costs of trying to sue and get the judgement and garnishment would cost them a few hundred dollars, and there is no guarantee they can win.

File the complaint at FTC.gov, and document everything. Stay off the phone. You have a full year from the date of the offense to sue for damages under the FDCPA, so you might as well get more evidence to support your lawsuit.

In the mean time send your dispute along with the proof of your payment, OR just send the debt validation reuest and make them prove everything, as they would have to in court.

Have fun!

"J",

Yeah, that makes sense, run out and spend a few hundred dollars fighting a $50 collection. Now that's what I call good advice.

Not even UCB would sue over $50! The costs of trying to sue and get the judgement and garnishment would cost them a few hundred dollars, and there is no guarantee they can win.

File the complaint at FTC.gov, and document everything. Stay off the phone. You have a full year from the date of the offense to sue for damages under the FDCPA, so you might as well get more evidence to support your lawsuit.

In the mean time send your dispute along with the proof of your payment, OR just send the debt validation reuest and make them prove everything, as they would have to in court.

Have fun!

"J",

Yeah, that makes sense, run out and spend a few hundred dollars fighting a $50 collection. Now that's what I call good advice.

Not even UCB would sue over $50! The costs of trying to sue and get the judgement and garnishment would cost them a few hundred dollars, and there is no guarantee they can win.

File the complaint at FTC.gov, and document everything. Stay off the phone. You have a full year from the date of the offense to sue for damages under the FDCPA, so you might as well get more evidence to support your lawsuit.

In the mean time send your dispute along with the proof of your payment, OR just send the debt validation reuest and make them prove everything, as they would have to in court.

Have fun!

"I don't know where "J" gets off telling the OP to ignore Steve's advice, as it is very sound and other than your telling the OP to hire an attorney, absolutely no different from Steve's. You can get rid of these vultures in many cases without an attorney. Only in the most extreme cases would an attorney's assistance likely be needed, such as "sewer service" and getting a default judgment vacated."


Why just get rid of them when you can get rid of them and get paid?

First off the fdcpa SPECIFICALLY talks about misrepresentaion irt documents and it SPECIFICALLY talks about misusing GOVERMENTAL SYMBOLS, LETTERHEAD, OR ANYTHING OF THE SORT.

But since you seem to have issues heres parts of section 807 of your friend and mine the fdcpa.

" 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1692e]

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(9) The use or distribution of any written communication which simulates or is falsely represented to be a document authorized, issued, or approved by any court, official, or agency of the United States or any State, or which creates a false impression as to its source, authorization, or approval."

Usage of attorney general letterhead on a collection letter. Sound deceptive? Ya think!

"(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action."

Violation number two?? It could be! Unless they actually intend to get a tax lien for a 50 dollar bill thats already been paid. Never mind the fact that theyd have to spend more to get it filed.

I advised him to get an attorney because that letter is a slam dunk. It doesnt get any better, its not like they commited the violations in a conversation that wasnt taped, they actually went and mailed him that crap. Why did they even bother with the mini miranda in that thing?

An attorney who handles debtor issues would also be intimate with your state fdcpa because these clowns may have also violated that as well. And may have to pay you for their violations.

As for the cease communications letter that every one here seems so fond of, well if you look around this site youll find a thread that talks about UCB just ignoring one, now if you do that they've commited another violation if they contact you beyond the one more letter or phone call allowed to them and that means more for you, but thats up to you if you want to do that.

Oh and what is up with that lame "struck a nerve" bs. If you knew anything near what you claim to know, you would know that letter is gold, and you would know that there are debtor attorneys who will take part of your settlement or judgement and that's it.

That's what im going to do, these UCB people commited several violations in 2 messages on my voicemail and im going to an attorney who, if they proceed takes 40% of what I finally get.

Another thing, I'm an ACA Certified Professional Debt Collector. Ive been doing this for most of ten years. I obey the law every day, both in letter and intent. I only found out about UCB after they left 2 voicemails for me at my home that were blatent violations of the fdcpa. I may turn them in to the ftc, state attorney general etc..but I know I'm gonna hit them in the pocketbook. And they couldnt pay me enough to work for them.

But hey, do what you want, but if I had that letter, UCB would be paying me. Not the other way around.


Ill part with some interesting reading...

" 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --

(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;

(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; or

(B) in the case of a class action, (i) such amount for each named plaintiff as could be recovered under subparagraph (A), and (ii) such amount as the court may allow for all other class members, without regard to a minimum individual recovery, not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and

(3) in the case of any successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, the costs of the action, together with a reasonable attorney's fee as determined by the court. On a finding by the court that an action under this section was brought in bad faith and for the purpose of harassment, the court may award to the defendant attorney's fees reasonable in relation to the work expended and costs.

(b) In determining the amount of liability in any action under subsection (a), the court shall consider, among other relevant factors --

(1) in any individual action under subsection (a)(2)(A), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, and the extent to which such noncompliance was intentional; or

(2) in any class action under subsection (a)(2)(B), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, the resources of the debt collector, the number of persons adversely affected, and the extent to which the debt collector's noncompliance was intentional.

(c) A debt collector may not be held liable in any action brought under this title if the debt collector shows by a preponderance of evidence that the violation was not intentional and resulted from a bona fide error notwithstanding the maintenance of procedures reasonably adapted to avoid any such error. "

I wonder if these guys could get away with a bona-fide error defense. I doubt it.


That letter however seems very intentional.

First off the fdcpa SPECIFICALLY talks about misrepresentaion irt documents and it SPECIFICALLY talks about misusing GOVERMENTAL SYMBOLS, LETTERHEAD, OR ANYTHING OF THE SORT.

But since you seem to have issues heres parts of section 807 of your friend and mine the fdcpa.

" 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1692e]

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(9) The use or distribution of any written communication which simulates or is falsely represented to be a document authorized, issued, or approved by any court, official, or agency of the United States or any State, or which creates a false impression as to its source, authorization, or approval."

Usage of attorney general letterhead on a collection letter. Sound deceptive? Ya think!

"(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action."

Violation number two?? It could be! Unless they actually intend to get a tax lien for a 50 dollar bill thats already been paid. Never mind the fact that theyd have to spend more to get it filed.

I advised him to get an attorney because that letter is a slam dunk. It doesnt get any better, its not like they commited the violations in a conversation that wasnt taped, they actually went and mailed him that crap. Why did they even bother with the mini miranda in that thing?

An attorney who handles debtor issues would also be intimate with your state fdcpa because these clowns may have also violated that as well. And may have to pay you for their violations.

As for the cease communications letter that every one here seems so fond of, well if you look around this site youll find a thread that talks about UCB just ignoring one, now if you do that they've commited another violation if they contact you beyond the one more letter or phone call allowed to them and that means more for you, but thats up to you if you want to do that.

Oh and what is up with that lame "struck a nerve" bs. If you knew anything near what you claim to know, you would know that letter is gold, and you would know that there are debtor attorneys who will take part of your settlement or judgement and that's it.

That's what im going to do, these UCB people commited several violations in 2 messages on my voicemail and im going to an attorney who, if they proceed takes 40% of what I finally get.

Another thing, I'm an ACA Certified Professional Debt Collector. Ive been doing this for most of ten years. I obey the law every day, both in letter and intent. I only found out about UCB after they left 2 voicemails for me at my home that were blatent violations of the fdcpa. I may turn them in to the ftc, state attorney general etc..but I know I'm gonna hit them in the pocketbook. And they couldnt pay me enough to work for them.

But hey, do what you want, but if I had that letter, UCB would be paying me. Not the other way around.


Ill part with some interesting reading...

" 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --

(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;

(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; or

(B) in the case of a class action, (i) such amount for each named plaintiff as could be recovered under subparagraph (A), and (ii) such amount as the court may allow for all other class members, without regard to a minimum individual recovery, not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and

(3) in the case of any successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, the costs of the action, together with a reasonable attorney's fee as determined by the court. On a finding by the court that an action under this section was brought in bad faith and for the purpose of harassment, the court may award to the defendant attorney's fees reasonable in relation to the work expended and costs.

(b) In determining the amount of liability in any action under subsection (a), the court shall consider, among other relevant factors --

(1) in any individual action under subsection (a)(2)(A), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, and the extent to which such noncompliance was intentional; or

(2) in any class action under subsection (a)(2)(B), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, the resources of the debt collector, the number of persons adversely affected, and the extent to which the debt collector's noncompliance was intentional.

(c) A debt collector may not be held liable in any action brought under this title if the debt collector shows by a preponderance of evidence that the violation was not intentional and resulted from a bona fide error notwithstanding the maintenance of procedures reasonably adapted to avoid any such error. "

I wonder if these guys could get away with a bona-fide error defense. I doubt it.


That letter however seems very intentional.

First off the fdcpa SPECIFICALLY talks about misrepresentaion irt documents and it SPECIFICALLY talks about misusing GOVERMENTAL SYMBOLS, LETTERHEAD, OR ANYTHING OF THE SORT.

But since you seem to have issues heres parts of section 807 of your friend and mine the fdcpa.

" 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1692e]

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(9) The use or distribution of any written communication which simulates or is falsely represented to be a document authorized, issued, or approved by any court, official, or agency of the United States or any State, or which creates a false impression as to its source, authorization, or approval."

Usage of attorney general letterhead on a collection letter. Sound deceptive? Ya think!

"(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action."

Violation number two?? It could be! Unless they actually intend to get a tax lien for a 50 dollar bill thats already been paid. Never mind the fact that theyd have to spend more to get it filed.

I advised him to get an attorney because that letter is a slam dunk. It doesnt get any better, its not like they commited the violations in a conversation that wasnt taped, they actually went and mailed him that crap. Why did they even bother with the mini miranda in that thing?

An attorney who handles debtor issues would also be intimate with your state fdcpa because these clowns may have also violated that as well. And may have to pay you for their violations.

As for the cease communications letter that every one here seems so fond of, well if you look around this site youll find a thread that talks about UCB just ignoring one, now if you do that they've commited another violation if they contact you beyond the one more letter or phone call allowed to them and that means more for you, but thats up to you if you want to do that.

Oh and what is up with that lame "struck a nerve" bs. If you knew anything near what you claim to know, you would know that letter is gold, and you would know that there are debtor attorneys who will take part of your settlement or judgement and that's it.

That's what im going to do, these UCB people commited several violations in 2 messages on my voicemail and im going to an attorney who, if they proceed takes 40% of what I finally get.

Another thing, I'm an ACA Certified Professional Debt Collector. Ive been doing this for most of ten years. I obey the law every day, both in letter and intent. I only found out about UCB after they left 2 voicemails for me at my home that were blatent violations of the fdcpa. I may turn them in to the ftc, state attorney general etc..but I know I'm gonna hit them in the pocketbook. And they couldnt pay me enough to work for them.

But hey, do what you want, but if I had that letter, UCB would be paying me. Not the other way around.


Ill part with some interesting reading...

" 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --

(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;

(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; or

(B) in the case of a class action, (i) such amount for each named plaintiff as could be recovered under subparagraph (A), and (ii) such amount as the court may allow for all other class members, without regard to a minimum individual recovery, not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and

(3) in the case of any successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, the costs of the action, together with a reasonable attorney's fee as determined by the court. On a finding by the court that an action under this section was brought in bad faith and for the purpose of harassment, the court may award to the defendant attorney's fees reasonable in relation to the work expended and costs.

(b) In determining the amount of liability in any action under subsection (a), the court shall consider, among other relevant factors --

(1) in any individual action under subsection (a)(2)(A), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, and the extent to which such noncompliance was intentional; or

(2) in any class action under subsection (a)(2)(B), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, the resources of the debt collector, the number of persons adversely affected, and the extent to which the debt collector's noncompliance was intentional.

(c) A debt collector may not be held liable in any action brought under this title if the debt collector shows by a preponderance of evidence that the violation was not intentional and resulted from a bona fide error notwithstanding the maintenance of procedures reasonably adapted to avoid any such error. "

I wonder if these guys could get away with a bona-fide error defense. I doubt it.


That letter however seems very intentional.

First off the fdcpa SPECIFICALLY talks about misrepresentaion irt documents and it SPECIFICALLY talks about misusing GOVERMENTAL SYMBOLS, LETTERHEAD, OR ANYTHING OF THE SORT.

But since you seem to have issues heres parts of section 807 of your friend and mine the fdcpa.

" 807. False or misleading representations [15 USC 1692e]

A debt collector may not use any false, deceptive, or misleading representation or means in connection with the collection of any debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(9) The use or distribution of any written communication which simulates or is falsely represented to be a document authorized, issued, or approved by any court, official, or agency of the United States or any State, or which creates a false impression as to its source, authorization, or approval."

Usage of attorney general letterhead on a collection letter. Sound deceptive? Ya think!

"(4) The representation or implication that nonpayment of any debt will result in the arrest or imprisonment of any person or the seizure, garnishment, attachment, or sale of any property or wages of any person unless such action is lawful and the debt collector or creditor intends to take such action."

Violation number two?? It could be! Unless they actually intend to get a tax lien for a 50 dollar bill thats already been paid. Never mind the fact that theyd have to spend more to get it filed.

I advised him to get an attorney because that letter is a slam dunk. It doesnt get any better, its not like they commited the violations in a conversation that wasnt taped, they actually went and mailed him that crap. Why did they even bother with the mini miranda in that thing?

An attorney who handles debtor issues would also be intimate with your state fdcpa because these clowns may have also violated that as well. And may have to pay you for their violations.

As for the cease communications letter that every one here seems so fond of, well if you look around this site youll find a thread that talks about UCB just ignoring one, now if you do that they've commited another violation if they contact you beyond the one more letter or phone call allowed to them and that means more for you, but thats up to you if you want to do that.

Oh and what is up with that lame "struck a nerve" bs. If you knew anything near what you claim to know, you would know that letter is gold, and you would know that there are debtor attorneys who will take part of your settlement or judgement and that's it.

That's what im going to do, these UCB people commited several violations in 2 messages on my voicemail and im going to an attorney who, if they proceed takes 40% of what I finally get.

Another thing, I'm an ACA Certified Professional Debt Collector. Ive been doing this for most of ten years. I obey the law every day, both in letter and intent. I only found out about UCB after they left 2 voicemails for me at my home that were blatent violations of the fdcpa. I may turn them in to the ftc, state attorney general etc..but I know I'm gonna hit them in the pocketbook. And they couldnt pay me enough to work for them.

But hey, do what you want, but if I had that letter, UCB would be paying me. Not the other way around.


Ill part with some interesting reading...

" 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --

(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;

(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; or

(B) in the case of a class action, (i) such amount for each named plaintiff as could be recovered under subparagraph (A), and (ii) such amount as the court may allow for all other class members, without regard to a minimum individual recovery, not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and

(3) in the case of any successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, the costs of the action, together with a reasonable attorney's fee as determined by the court. On a finding by the court that an action under this section was brought in bad faith and for the purpose of harassment, the court may award to the defendant attorney's fees reasonable in relation to the work expended and costs.

(b) In determining the amount of liability in any action under subsection (a), the court shall consider, among other relevant factors --

(1) in any individual action under subsection (a)(2)(A), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, and the extent to which such noncompliance was intentional; or

(2) in any class action under subsection (a)(2)(B), the frequency and persistence of noncompliance by the debt collector, the nature of such noncompliance, the resources of the debt collector, the number of persons adversely affected, and the extent to which the debt collector's noncompliance was intentional.

(c) A debt collector may not be held liable in any action brought under this title if the debt collector shows by a preponderance of evidence that the violation was not intentional and resulted from a bona fide error notwithstanding the maintenance of procedures reasonably adapted to avoid any such error. "

I wonder if these guys could get away with a bona-fide error defense. I doubt it.


That letter however seems very intentional.

"J",

If I remember right you were a collector for UCB.

You would hire an attorney over a $50 collection notice? Unbelievable. I just think I struck a UCB nerve!

Any moron can prepare a debt validation request and/or a cease communication request. This does not require an attorney, nor does filing an FTC complaint, or a complaint to any other government agency.

I suggest an attorney be hired whenever a case actually goes to court in most cases. However UCB is never one of those cases as they are too stupid to get a case to court. They are nothing but crackheads and criminals with 8th grade educations at best. They are total morons, as are most debt collectors. No reason to waste an attorney's time on them, or money.

So Ignore "J", he is a UCB collector.

I don't know where "J" gets off telling the OP to ignore Steve's advice, as it is very sound and other than your telling the OP to hire an attorney, absolutely no different from Steve's. You can get rid of these vultures in many cases without an attorney. Only in the most extreme cases would an attorney's assistance likely be needed, such as "sewer service" and getting a default judgment vacated.

Ken, do NOT ignore Steve's advice.

"I received a collection notice from United Collection Bureau, Inc today for a tax bill for $50.00 that was paid months ago. The interesting part is they are using the state seal and office of attorney general letterhead on the collection notice. My understanding is that they can list the state as the creditor they are collecting for but cannot make themselves appear to be a government agency.

When I opened the letter, I was under the impression this was a letter from the state advising UCB is handling the collection until I got half way through the paragraph and read the mini miranda required by collectors.

Another interesting part of the letter,
"Failure to pay this obligation may result in further legal action being taken against you which may include a tax lien if one has not already been placed". Are these folks attorneys? If not they cannot advise any legal action towards me or recommend legal strategy to their client. Anyone have info or insight....thanks!!"

Ignore steve, contact an attorney. That letter is a violation of the FDCPA.

Ken,

UCB is one of the biggest offenders in the realm of illegal, unethical and misleading communications. They are the definition of bottomfeeders.

I would forward a copy of that letter to each government agency shown on the letter, along with a complaint, and also an FTC.gov online complaint.

UCB are not attorneys, but they often claim to be. They also pretend to be police, etc. Whatever is convenient for them to perpetrate the fraud on the public.

Just send them the CEASE COMMUNICATION letter as per your rights under the FDCPA, and be sure they have not put a derogatory entry on your credit report.

Have some fun with these morons.